Israel and Hezbollah exchange fire despite US-Iran deal

Summary

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Global News Podcast: "Israel and Hezbollah Exchange Fire Despite US-Iran Deal"

Date: June 16, 2026
Host: Will Chalk, BBC World Service

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Overview

This episode covers the fragility of a newly signed US-Iran Memorandum of Understanding aiming at peace, amid continuing violence between Israel and Hezbollah. The episode also highlights political and societal fallout surrounding the deal, Iran's World Cup football debut in the US, US domestic controversies over AI data centers, bold development plans for Sherbro Island in Sierra Leone, and a new Anish Kapoor exhibition.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. US-Iran Peace Deal Undermined by Continued Violence

[01:38 – 07:26]

• The US and Iran have signed (electronically) an agreement promising to end hostilities, but violence between Israel and Hezbollah persists.
• Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu asserts the need to maintain operations in Lebanon to protect northern residents, despite Iran's push for Israeli withdrawal.

  “Regarding Lebanon, we've created a buffer zone, a security zone, and we'll remain there as long as necessary.”
  — Benjamin Netanyahu (03:10)

• Israel’s refusal to withdraw puts it at odds with President Trump, who has criticized Israel’s attacks as obstructive to peace efforts.
• Details of the US-Iran deal remain scant, with a formal ceremony planned in Switzerland later in the week.

Analyst Insight

Charlotte Gallagher outlines:

• Both the US and Iran claim different interpretations of Israeli withdrawal conditions in the Memorandum.

  “The US say Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon is not part of the framework deal. However, Iran say it very much is.”
  — Charlotte Gallagher (04:04)

• Israel’s main war aims—regime change in Iran and eliminating Hezbollah—remain unmet, reinforcing Netanyahu’s stance against withdrawal.

  “The Iranian regime, many people say, is actually stronger than it was before the war, and Hezbollah is still there. So those objectives were just not achieved.”
  — Charlotte Gallagher (06:58)

Political Fallout

• Netanyahu faces upcoming elections and criticism for failing to achieve key objectives.

  “Opposition figures...will say, well, you started a war and you couldn't finish this war.”
  — Charlotte Gallagher (06:04)

• His relations with the US, especially President Trump, are increasingly strained.

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2. G7 Summit Context & US-Iran Deal Details

[07:26 – 09:08]

• The announcement of the US-Iran deal ahead of the G7 Summit is seen as mood-setting but lacking detail.
• President Trump, in France, highlights Iranian promises to keep the Strait of Hormuz open and renounce nuclear weapons, though he notes Iran’s history of similar pledges.

  “It's a different set of leaders...and we found the third set to be very smart. The Iran deal that we made is going to bring a lot of success to the world.”
  — President Trump (08:31)

• The deal is described as a "broad outline" rather than a peace treaty, with details expected soon.

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3. Iran vs. New Zealand: World Cup Football Amid Political Tension

[09:08 – 12:12]

• Iran’s World Cup debut in the US ends in a 2-2 draw with New Zealand, but is overshadowed by political protests, including boycotts and demonstrations over the Iranian flag.
• Supporters experience conflicted loyalties, balancing national pride with disdain for the regime.

  “Some of them were considering this team not as Iran's national team...but the Islamic Republic's team. Some...were saying, okay, if you are going to that stadium, you are going to watch IRGC playing.”
  — Sam Farzane (11:05)

• Nonetheless, some fans set aside politics to cheer the team.

  “It was amazing that I saw some people are still cheering for the team.”
  — Sam Farzane (11:40)

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4. US Backlash Against AI Data Centers

[15:48 – 20:10]

• Protests grow in the US—especially Utah and Texas—against water- and energy-intensive data centers supporting AI, impacting local environments and property values.
  • Cross-party opposition emerges; even staunch Republican voters threaten to vote Democrat in protest.

  “My entire community is going to break rank. Everybody. All of us. We've had enough.”
  — Texas resident (17:13)

• Alexandria Ocasio Cortez describes severe impacts on local families:

  “Families are starting to see not only their water pressure decrease, but their appliances have all stopped working because it is decimating their water quality...water bills are expected to increase by 33%.”
  — Alexandria Ocasio Cortez (17:28)

• Correspondent Anthony Zircher reports:

  “There was a poll the other day that upwards of 70% of Americans...don't want data centers near where they live.” (17:51)

• CEOs like OpenAI’s Sam Altman argue the centers can create transformative benefits, from curing cancer to business support.

  “This could very well turn into the site where cancer gets cured...”
  — Sam Altman (16:47)

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5. AI in Conservation: Rapid Digitization of Plant Species

[20:10 – 22:36]

• Scientists at the Royal Botanic Gardens Kew use AI to digitally process millions of plant specimens, speeding up documentation and aiding conservation.

  “By putting these specimens online and using things like computer vision and AI, we're able to take that task and get it done in days or weeks...”
  — Dr. Matilda Brown (22:08)

• Historic specimens, including those collected by Charles Darwin, are instrumental in this effort.

  "What do you think Charles Darwin would have made of this modern science? I think he'd be amazed and really pleased actually..."
  — Nina Davies (21:13)

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6. Sherbro Island: The 'Singapore of West Africa'?

[22:36 – 26:58]

• Sierra Leone’s Sherbro Island is being promoted as a potential international business hub, led by Siaka Stevens and actor Idris Elba, aiming to attract investment and diaspora returnees.

  “So the vision for Sherborough is to basically build a modern Singapore of West Africa that is sustainable and open for everyone.”
  — Siaka Stevens (23:32)

• Infrastructure is nascent—plans for wind farms and solar energy are underway, supported by companies like Octopus Energy.

  “Definitely not philanthropic...There's a tremendous amount that we're learning here that we know already we can replicate not only for Sierra Leone, but for West Africa, across the continent more generally.”
  — Zoeza North Bond (26:13)

• But big international investment is still lacking.

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7. Art & Activism: New Anish Kapoor Exhibition

[27:58 – 31:28]

• London’s Haywood Gallery hosts a new exhibition by sculptor Anish Kapoor, focusing on interaction, physicality, and ritual in art.

  “Sculpture is all about your body. It's all about interaction physically and then, I hope emotionally. But it's also a deep red that does something. So there's some, if you like, internal organ going on.”
  — Anish Kapoor (28:22)

• Kapoor’s works challenge perception, with pieces like "Descent into Limbo" blurring lines between emptiness and fullness.
• On environmental activism:

  “I don't condemn it and I don't condone it...The important question is about how the viewer brings, if you like, their own psychological questions, body, spaces, etc. To a work.”
  — Anish Kapoor (30:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Benjamin Netanyahu's firm stance on Lebanon:

  “We’re staying there because we need to protect the residents of the north.” (03:16)

• US-Iran Agreement ambiguity:

  “The US Say Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon is not part of the framework deal. However, Iran say it very much is.” — Charlotte Gallagher (04:04)

• Political protest in Iran’s football match:

  “They are thinking about [the national team] as more like the Islamic Republic’s team.” — Sam Farzane (11:05)

• AI Data Center activism:

  “My entire community is going to break rank. Everybody. All of us. We’ve had enough.” (17:13)

• On plant conservation with AI:

  “If we want to look at 8 million specimens...doing it manually would take us 70 to 100 years. By putting these specimens online...we’re able to take that task and get it done in days or weeks...” — Dr. Matilda Brown (22:08)

• Sherbro Island ambitions:

  “There is a huge reverse migration and it’s something that I think we’ve all been yearning for.” — Siaka Stevens (25:31)

• Anish Kapoor on art's meaning:

  “A good poem...sits somewhere between meaning and no meaning.” (29:45)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:38: Start of main news — US-Iran deal, Israel-Hezbollah hostilities
• 03:10: Netanyahu’s stance, Israeli policy on Lebanon
• 04:04: Charlotte Gallagher on deal ambiguities
• 05:00: Netanyahu and Trump’s fraught relationship
• 07:44: Paul Adams on US-Iran deal at the G7
• 09:08: Iran vs. New Zealand – politics at the World Cup
• 15:48: AI data centers and environmental backlash in the US
• 17:28: Alexandria Ocasio Cortez on data center impacts
• 20:10: AI in plant conservation at Kew Gardens
• 22:36: Sherbro Island development vision
• 28:03: Preview of Anish Kapoor's exhibition and artist’s insights

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Conclusion

This episode highlights how global peace efforts are persistently challenged by entrenched conflicts and political ambition, with the Israel-Hezbollah situation threatening to derail fragile progress between the US and Iran. On a local level, technological progress and environmental concerns provoke rare bipartisan unity in the US, while international development projects and cutting-edge art challenge orthodoxies and look to the future. The blend of expert analysis and on-the-ground reports offers listeners insight into how these disparate stories form the current global landscape.

Transcript

[A]

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[A]

this is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Will Chalk and in the early hours of Tuesday 16th June, these are our main stories. We've heard so much about this potential U.S. iran peace deal, but could violence between Israel and Hezbollah undermine it before it's been officially signed? Also, Iran begin their football World cup campaign with a great match against New Zealand in la. Also in this podcast we hear how growing anger in the US against AI data centers has led to voters abandoning the Republican Party.

[C]

My entire community is going to break rank.

[D]

Everybody. All of us.

[A]

We've had enough. Could a little known island off Sierra Leone become the Singapore of West Africa? And we get a glimpse of a new exhibition by the award winning British sculptor Sir Anish Kapoor. Well, the virtual ink is barely dry on the U. S Iran Memorandum of Understanding and Israel and Hezbollah are back attacking each other with skirmishes reported on both sides. The problem is the ongoing unrest is so deep rooted that even if this latest deal calls for an immediate and permanent halt to all military operations, including in Lebanon, it's hard to see an end to the fighting there anytime soon. The Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, is insisting his country's forces will remain there as long as necessary.

[E]

Regarding Lebanon, we've created a buffer zone, a security zone, and we'll remain there

[F]

as long as necessary.

[E]

Iran wanted us to withdraw from there, but that did not happen. Do you know why it didn't happen? Among other reasons, because I stood very, very firm and I believe our American friends respect this determination and stance, this persistence. We're staying there because we need to protect the residents of the north.

[A]

Well, despite Benjamin Netanyahu's confidence there, this could put him at further odds with President Trump, who's already criticized him over recent Israeli attacks on Beirut. To remind you where we are as we record this podcast, we're told the deal's been signed electronically by both sides, but we're light on details as to what's in it. And we're told there's going to be a formal signing ceremony in Switzerland on Friday. I asked our correspondent Charlotte Gallagher if these skirmishes have already broken the deal.

[G]

It really depends who you ask. The US Say Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon is not part of the framework deal. However, Iran say it very much is. So this will be one of the things that they've got to hammer out over the next 60 days. Of course, that is if the ceasefire stands, as well as, of course, Iran's nuclear program. That's going to be a really hard issue for them to go through during that time. But as you said, skirmishes earlier, a man was killed, Lebanese state media say, in a drone attack on Nakar, an Israeli drone attack. The Israeli military say numerous rockets were fired at their soldiers inside southern Lebanon. So the conflict there is still continuing, but of course, on a much smaller scale than it has been previously.

[A]

Benjamin Netanyahu has said many, many times how little desire he has to stop striking Hezbollah in Lebanon. Does that put him then on a collision course with Donald Trump? And how can he get out of it?

[G]

We know that Donald Trump was very angry when Israel hit Beirut as the ceasefire deal was nearly signed. And we know that they had a very strongly worded conversation. That was President Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu in a press conference earlier. He was pressed on his relationship with President Trump. And Benjamin Netanyahu said they didn't always see eye to eye, but they'd known each other for a long time. And he said his priority was always the defense of Israel. But it does certainly look like Israel is more isolated from its most powerful ally than it has been in recent times. You know, they weren't included in these talks with Iran and the U.S. israel were told what was going to happen. They weren't consulted. So I think they're definitely not as close as they have been. That's the way it seems, certainly. And that is what people inside Israel are saying. The deal's been really criticized by not just Israeli politicians, but the public as well.

[H]

Yeah.

[A]

And of course, that has implications, doesn't it, for Benjamin Netanyahu's political career?

[G]

It does. I mean, there is an election upcoming in Israel, and opposition figures, people that are running against Benjamin Netanyahu will say, well, you started a war and you couldn't finish this war. So that would be one of the accusations thrown at him in his press conference earlier. He sort of used it a bit as a party political broadcast, actually. Will, he was saying, I am the only leader of Israel that will stop Iran getting a nuclear weapon. If you don't have me, things could be very different. And he was really kind of making his pitch to the voters in Israel as much as answering questions about the deal. He was saying, look, vote for me. And another reason why he wants people to vote for him is he's facing corruption charges, which he denies. And if he is no longer leader of Israel, they could very well move through the courts. So obviously that in his mind as

[A]

well, this idea of an immediate and permanent halt to all military operations in Lebanon, is that something that Benjamin Netanyahu would ever agree to?

[G]

I think one of the most important things to say about this is Israel had some really key objectives, which was the ending of the Iranian regime and also the ending of Hezbollah inside Lebanon. Now, the Iranian regime, many people say, is actually stronger than it was before the war, and Hezbollah is still there. So those objectives were just not achieved. And, no, I don't think there's any chance really of Israel withdrawing from Lebanon while they see Hezbollah as a threat.

[A]

Charlotte Gallagher there on the Israeli perspective. As for Donald Trump, he's now in France where He's attending the 52nd G7 summit. And as we said, it's later this week that he's expected to go to Switzerland for that formal signing of the memorandum. Our diplomatic correspondent Paul Adams reports.

[I]

This weekend's news that the US And Iran have agreed to end the war will go some way towards establishing a positive mood among the leaders gathering in France. But they, like all of US will want to know more. Details of the memorandum of understanding have yet to be published. It's not a peace treaty, only the broad outline for a set of difficult negotiations to come. Iran's President Masoud Pezeshkian has called it an honorable document. Meeting the summit's host, the French President Emmanuel Macron, Donald Trump said the Strait of Hormuz would be fully open by Friday. He said Iran had agreed not to have a nuclear weapon. That's hardly new. It's made the same pledge in the past. But he paid tribute to the leadership in Iran, which he now describes as pragmatic.

[A]

We got along very well with Iran.

[J]

It's a different set of leaders, as you know. The first set is gone, the second set is gone, and we found the third set to be very smart. The Iran deal that we made is going to bring

[F]

a lot of success to the world.

[I]

It's all a far cry from the call for regime change the President made when he launched the war at the end of February. The deal is due to be signed at a ceremony in Geneva on Friday. White House officials say an electronic signing has already taken place and that details may be published in the next 48 hours. When asked if he might stay on in Europe and attend himself, Mr. Trump didn't rule it out.

[A]

Paul Adams There safe to say it was a game unlike any other Iran playing football in the U.S. while the two countries try and put an end to more than a hundred days of hostilities. As we record this podcast, the World cup fixture between Iran and New Zealand has just ended. It was a 22 draw. It was a great match to watch. But the football was overshadowed by politics. Some Iranians boycotted the game. Many of those who went protested against the Iranian regime and FIFA's ban on the pre revolutionary lion and Sun flag. BBC Persians Sam Farzane was watching the match in LA. I asked if the atmosphere was what he expected.

[K]

No, I was not expecting people cheering for Iran's national team. I was expecting more booing. Well, which they actually started with booing the national anthem. And all of a sudden as soon as the game started, all I was hearing, whenever the ball was on the Iranian side, whenever they had the ball, it was cheers and it was interesting for me. Even some of those people who were carrying the lion and sun flag, that was for the pre revolution in Iran, even those people, I was seeing them, they were cheering for the national team. Where I was sitting there were a couple of women who constantly, they were cheering the New Zealand's team and they were Cheering them in Persian, which was interesting. I think none of the other fans of Kiwis could understand that they were doing.

[A]

Yeah, that's an unusual moment, isn't it? Look, it's so conflicting, isn't it for Iranians as you've touched on there, you know, we've heard from supporters who say we want to cheer on our team because you know, there are our countrymen, but they feel that conflict, that by doing so they will are endorsing the regime.

[K]

Exactly. And other than that, some of them were considering this team not as Iran's national team. They are thinking about them as more like the Islamic Republic's team. Some of the protesters outside of the stadium were saying that this is not even the Islamic Republic's team, it's the IRGC's team. And they were saying, okay, if you are going to that stadium, you are going to watch IRGC playing. So the temperature is hot and it was amazing that I saw some people are still cheering for the team.

[A]

Yeah, well, I mean, given all the buildup and all the drama, I mean it should be pointed out, we've had it on here in the newsroom. It was in my view the game of the tournament so far, I think. So nice for fans who've had a turbulent few months to be able to, to enjoy something like that and for. And for you as well, I imagine.

[K]

Definitely. And it's interesting just a few moments ago, Eron's head coach, he said that I'm really happy about the game. He said this was one of the best games of tournament, but I'm not happy about the result.

[A]

BBC Persian's Sam Farzenay speaking to me from la. Still to come in this podcast, what

[L]

do you think Charles Darwin would have made of this modern science? I think he'd be amazed and really pleased actually, because it's incredible how modern

[A]

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This is the global news podcast. If you use AI chatbots, how much damage to the environment is a fair price to pay for them? Well, that is a crowd in the U.S. state of Utah who already think the cost is too high. They're protesting against a sprawling AI data center on the parched shores of the Great Salt Lake that is twice the size of Manhattan. Tech bosses say the centers are essential to the growth of artificial intelligence. But across the US Republicans and Democrats are uniting in voicing their alarm about the vast amounts of energy and water such data centers consume and the noise, the pollution, the falling property prices and destruction of nature they cause. The CEO of OpenAI, Sam Altman, speaking at One Data center in Michigan, said such concern was misplaced.

[M]

This could very well turn into the site where cancer gets cured, where hundreds of millions of students around the world learn and get private tutoring, where millions of small businesses can run their business with AI in the cloud.

[A]

But a worrying development for President Trump's Republicans. Lifelong supporters are abandoning the party in droves because of its backing for the AI data centers. Like this woman in Texas.

[C]

My entire community is going to break rank.

[G]

Everybody, all of us.

[A]

We've had enough. New York Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez visited a data center in Georgia and described conditions there to a congressional hearing.

[G]

Families are starting to see not only their water pressure decrease, but their appliances have all stopped working because it is decimating their water quality. They now rely on bottled water to drink and prepare meals. And water bills are expected to increase by 33%.

[A]

Janat Jalil asked our North America correspondent Anthony Zuerka what this all means.

[J]

I think that gives a flavor of exactly how controversial these data centers are becoming all across the United States. It's at these town halls and local elections where the politicians are really feeling the heat from angry constituents. They're concerned about the rapid economies expansion of these data centers, the amount of electricity that they are using, the amount of water that they are sucking up, the possible environmental consequences of these large buildings being dropped in their local communities. And I think you could hear from that as well that this isn't a partisan issue. A very rare case where there are conservatives and liberals who are speaking out. There was a poll the other day that upwards of 70% of Americans, Americans don't want data centers near where they live.

[G]

Yes, Sam Altman, they're defending these AI data centers, but also a big concern for him that the stock price of Companies like his depend on building these huge centers in order to be able to generate enough power for AI to be used.

[J]

Exactly. They are looking at the bottom line and they're trying to figure out how to continue to keep up with the demand from American companies and global companies for these AI services. And they need to find ways of being able to meet that demand. And that requires these massive centers. The one in Utah I believe is proposed to use as much electricity as the rest of the state of Utah put together, which is an eye watering number. So they have to try to find ways to generate electricity, they have to find an abundant water supply, and they have to find a way to get around these attempts on a local level to impose moratoriums on data centers and to make more it more difficult for them to be built in their communities. I think you heard from that one voter in Texas who's a conservative and Texas is typically a Republican state being open to voting for Democrats for the opposition party. Because of this, they're becoming one issue voters. So I think both parties see peril if they don't acknowledge the concerns of voters. But it's part of a larger concern about AI technology and its disruptive effects. Its ability to replace humans with AI agents and it will cost people their jobs. And that all kind of bundled together is what makes this such a potent issue.

[A]

Anthony Zircher there we've just heard about one of the downsides to the rapid rise of AI. But it can also have its plus sides because while a new report is warning that the world's plants are disappearing faster than scientists can keep up, researchers from the Royal Botanic Gardens Kew here in London say the digital world. And AI AI is offering hope. Here's Helen Bricks.

[H]

So this is the Brugmansia and it's got these huge kind of peach colored trumpet flowers. They're about the size of your forearm.

[L]

In a glass house at the Royal Botanic Gardens, kew, conservation scientist Dr. Matilda Brown admires a plant very few of us will get to see because it's extinct in the wild. She says plants are disappearing faster than science can keep up.

[H]

It's lucky it's so pretty really, because other species, they are going extinct sometimes before we even know about them. And with every species we lose, we're losing benefits to humanity that we might not even know about. Whether that's the next cure for cancer or the next climate resilient crop.

[L]

The secrets to saving these plants could lie in the archives at Kew. If you look at this specimen here, you can see the tiny tomatoes. Herbarium curation manager Nina Davies is showing me a particularly historic specimen. It looks to me like a squash tomato. It absolutely is a squash tomato. So this has been pressed and dried, but this is no ordinary tomato. It was collected in the Galapagos Islands in 1835 by the famous biologist Charles Darwin. One of millions of plants to be cataloged, photographed and uploaded to the web. What do you think Charles Darwin would have made of this modern science? I think he'd be amazed and really pleased actually, because it's incredible. And Dr. Brown says AI and digital technology could transform how we fight global extinction.

[H]

The gains in speed are absolutely phenomenal. If we want to look at 8 million specimens, taking them out of the cupboard, opening it up, and all we want to know is, is it flowering or not? To do that for the entire Kew Herbarium would take us 70 to 100 years. By putting these specimens online and using things like computer vision and AI, we're able to take that task and get it done in days or weeks or maybe even months. A lot less time than the lifetimes that it would take to do it manually.

[A]

Helen Briggs reporting. Off the coast of Sierra Leone in West Africa, Sherbro island has been earmarked for an ambitious transformation. A new center for international business and investment designed to rival cities like Singapore or Hong Kong. It's got some high profile backers, including Shaka Stevens, the grandson of a former president and the film star IDRIS ELBA. The BBC's Ed Butler has been to Sherborough and asks, can this vision become reality?

[E]

It's end of school in Bonf on the island of Sherbro, population 15,000 or so. In centuries past, Sherborough was a bustling British colonial trading post. Since independence, the district's fallen into economic decline.

[F]

So the vision for Sherborough is to basically build a modern Singapore of West Africa that is sustainable and open for everyone.

[E]

That's Siaka Stevens, one of two British born Sierra Leoneans aiming to transform this remote backwater of the country into a global business hub. The other is his childhood friend, the Hollywood movie star, Idris Elba.

[M]

This is Sierra Leone.

[F]

It's one of the poorest countries in the world.

[M]

Investment isn't rushing through the door. So what we needed to do is

[F]

understand how to package an investment opportunity

[M]

around this beautiful island without destroying it

[F]

and being conscious that there is a

[M]

youth culture across Africa of the average age of about 20 that wants some something. And that's what Cherbo island is.

[E]

Step one is providing the island with A basic level of infrastructure. We just arrived on our motorbikes to what was the one and only landing strip with this hut. It's got a tin roof that's half ripped off. On the walls it says, welcome to Bonf airfield. Yeah, it's not a very warm welcome just at the minute, is it, Shaka? I mean, what's the plan here?

[F]

This is a landing ship, although it's not in the best state, is something there already that can work with. So the island is not a complete greenfield site. And it will happen.

[E]

There's still no reliable power supply here. So the men are erecting what will become Sherbros and indeed Sierra Leone's first ever wind farm.

[F]

Africa is the last emerging continent in the world. Growing ish middle class, big economies. Nigeria, Ghana, Ivory coast, close. So if you can create somewhere that is less risky, a governance structure that people can trust in, is it independent?

[E]

But this isn't the most obvious spot, is it?

[F]

No, it's not the most obvious spot on paper, but we are six hours away, direct flight from Europe. We have the winter sun, an English time zone, and Sierra Leone is a very safe country. So we have all the natural attributes to make this an attractive destination.

[E]

How much do you think the African Diaspora needs to play a role in it?

[I]

Huge.

[F]

A lot of our best minds live outside of the continent. If there was homes to purchase now, to live here and retire, they would do it. There is a huge reverse migration and it's something that I think we've all been yearning for.

[E]

But the fact remains there aren't any big international firms who've yet signed up to this vision. Well, except for Octopus Energy, Britain's largest domestic energy provider has supplied those wind turbines and solar panels that we were hearing about. So what's in it for them? I asked its CEO of energy generation, Zoeza North Bond, if this wasn't just corporate philanthropy meant to make the company look good.

[L]

Definitely not philanthropic. When we were looking at building energy installations, what we wanted to do was understand the data sets, how things worked, creating something where we really learned about the local environment to find the things that would enable us to scale the model into the future. There's a tremendous amount that we're learning here that we know already we can replicate not only for Sierra Leone, but for West Africa, across the continent more generally.

[C]

Hi there.

[E]

Back in town, Siaka introduces me to the guest house owner. We're sleeping here tonight. Electricity comes on at eight, I'm told. Meals only by individual request. If change is coming, there's clearly some way to go.

[A]

Ed Butler there. And you can hear more of Ed's full report on the development of Sherbro on today's edition of Business Daily. That'[e-mail] or wherever you get your podcasts. A new exhibition by the Turner Prize winning British sculptor Anish Kapoor opens at London's Haywood Gallery on Tuesday. It showcases the theatricality of an artist known for his works of gleaming steel such as Chicago's Cloud Gate, but also for his black voids and his vast deep red installations which encompass mystery and ritual. As well as creating public works of art, he is also very public about his political views. Last year Greenpeace installed his giant blood red canvas called Butchered on a North Sea gas rig as an act of environmental activism. Among the new works on display is a giant inflatable PVC sculpture which occupies multiple rooms and is called all of Nothing. It was the first stop when James Kumar Asami had a preview of the exhibition in the Company of Anish.

[M]

We are struck as soon as you walk into this exhibition by all or Nothing. Quite a feat I'd imagine to actually get it up. It's a very big inflatable that fills the space and I wanted the viewer to be confronted with something that's right up against your body.

[H]

Why?

[M]

I mean, sculpture is all about your body. It's all about interaction physically and then, I hope emotionally. But it's also a deep red that does something. So there's some, if you like, internal organ going on.

[B]

It was always going to be to

[M]

be red with you, wasn't it? Mostly. What is it? But what's the fascination? Well, of course we're made of red and blackness and they both make peculiar kinds of darkness. So tell us about these works. I think there's a new work over there, but some of these are older, aren't they? They are. Here on the floor is a work called Descent into Limbo, which I made in the late 80s. It is a space full of darkness. It's not a hole, it's a carpet on the floor. And it looks like a hole. Well, it does that strange thing of being empty and full. When I first made it, I showed it in a small little building. This gentleman had stood in line for 45 minutes, goes into the room, he's oh God, I've done lots of things in the name of contemporary art, but to stand in line for 45 minutes to look at a black carpet. He was furious. He then took his glory glasses off and threw them, thinking it was a black Carpet, of course, they disappeared. And suddenly there was a physical sense in him. What have I done? Where is this? What is this?

[E]

Well, he's taken part in performance art, hasn't he?

[F]

Blackness.

[M]

We're going to move back to redness. I think we are. The other side of this show, in a sense, is ritual, interior. So if one. One proposition about interior is void and nothing and empty. The other, of course, is blood and gore and redness in a different spectrum. I'm eternally attracted to that. I feel it's a fundamental question of art. What does it say about the world? Oh, God, the world is a disaster. I firmly believe that. I have nothing to say as an artist. I don't have some message to give the world. A bad poem, they say, is one that falls into meaning. A good poem, therefore, sits somewhere between meaning and no meaning. I mean, last year, butchered. You used your art to make a statement, hanging it on an oil rig with Greenpeace. When you look at the way that environmentalists have actually desecrated art in some

[E]

instances, what do you think of that?

[M]

It's very simple. But those young people that did that did it because Shell, I believe, sponsored the National Gallery. I don't condemn it and I don't condone it. Should we go upstairs? What would you like us to know about this work? It's called Hamakom, whom in Hebrew means the place. I suppose what I've done here is make a space apart. The important question is about how the viewer brings, if you like, their own psychological questions, body, spaces, etc. To a work. How they complete the equation. It's not about me telling you how it is, it's rather about the interaction between the two.

[A]

Anish Kapoor speaking to James Kumarasamy. That's all from us for now. If you want to get in touch, you can. You can email us [e-mail] you can also find us on X@ BBC World Service. Use the hashtag globalnewspod. We have a sister podcast, the Global Story, which goes in depth and beyond the headlines on one big story. This edition of the Global News Podcast was mixed by Hannah Montgomery. The producer was Emma Joseph. The editor is Karen Martin and I'm Will Chalk. Until next time. Goodbye.

[B]

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