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Global News Podcast
Trump says ceasefire with Iran is 'over'
00:31:59
President Trump warns US will hit Iran 'hard' again tonight
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- [00:00]
McDonald's Advertiser
This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
- [00:07]
Ankar Desai
All new drinks are now at McDonald's
- [00:10]
Donald Trump
with refreshers like the Strawberry Watermelon Refresher
- [00:13]
Ankar Desai
and the Mango Pineapple Refresher with popping Boba to crafted sodas like the Sprite Berry Blast with berry flavors and cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire six? All new drinks are here now at McDonald's. Refreshers contain caffeine.
- [00:37]
BBC Correspondent (e.g., Caroline Davies or Asma Khalid)
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- [01:08]
Ankar Desai
This is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service. Hello, I'm Ankar Desai and at 16 GMT on Wednesday 8th July, these are our main stories. President Trump warns the US will again hit Iran hard later today after earlier declaring that the ceasefire was over following fresh exchanges of military strikes. He was speaking on the sidelines of the NATO summit in Ankara where, speaking alongside President Zelensky, he also promised to license the manufacture of vital Patriot air defense missiles to Ukraine. Elsewhere, French MPs have approved a new law which would mean police are presumed to have acted legally when they shoot someone. And also in this podcast, how do you follow Oscar winning box office conquering movies like Oppenheimer?
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Christopher Nolan
My son walked into my office while I was writing on the Odyssey and said where are you Oscars? And I said well I'm trying to write a new project and if I've got Oscars sitting on the shelf, think about how daunting that looked at me and said but you didn't win.
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Ankar Desai
For writing, Hollywood director Christopher Nolan and his star studded cast talk about the new blockbuster movie the Odyssey. President Trump has warned the US will again hit Iran hard later today after earlier declaring that the ceasefire was over. He was speaking at the NATO summit in Ankara.
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Donald Trump
To me, I think it's over. I don't want to deal with them anymore. They're scum. You know what scum is? They're scum. They're sick people. They're led by sick people and they're vicious, violent people and if they had a nuclear weapon, they'd use it. As far as I'm concerned, it's over. I'll speak to our negotiators. They want to negotiate. They're good people. Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner, but they have to come back to me. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a waste of time dealing with them. They're liars. We make a deal, and if I make a deal with him, we have a deal and he goes out, he talks, we make a deal, everyone's agreed, no nuclear weapon. We make a deal, they go outside, talk to the press. They say, we never even talked about it. There's something wrong with them. They're cuckoo. As far as I'm concerned, it's over.
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Ankar Desai
Well, in the latest clashes, US Central Command said it fired at more than 80 Iranian targets. Iran said it targeted US military sites in Bahrain and Kuwait. The US strikes followed attacks earlier in the week on three oil tankers in the Strait of Hormuz. A correspondent in Jerusalem, Caroline Davies, is monitoring developments. She told us what she made of President Trump's comments about the ceasefire.
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BBC Correspondent (e.g., Caroline Davies or Asma Khalid)
Firstly, to just say that President Trump almost seems to be saying two things in the course of his comments. Obviously, firstly and very clearly, he said when asked, is the ceasefire still holding? Is the MoU, the memorandum of understanding, which was signed only just last month, is that still in place? And he said that as far as he is concerned, it's over. Were his terms. But at the same time, he was then asked, does that mean the talks are finished? Are they over as well? And he said, well, they can continue to talk, but I think they're wasting their time. So he's not pulling his negotiators out of these talks and these conversations, which we know are ongoing. We know that that's part of the memorandum of understanding, that they've got 60 days, according to that, at the moment, to continue to have these discussions, and that that process is not stopping. But that is saying that as far as he is concerned, the ceasefire and the MOU is no longer holding. So what exactly does that mean is going to happen next? And that's what's really unclear. Does it mean that we are going to see an increase in hostilities again? Does it mean that we are going to see further attacks, further escalation, further tit for tat, or. And this isn't necessarily completely exclusive, is this also a potential negotiating position from President Trump? What this slightly reminds me of is the period when we had a ceasefire, but no mou. So this was. The ceasefire was originally agreed back in April and then was sort of continually extended. And during that time we saw both sides accusing the other of violating that ceasefire. We saw lots of tit for tat back and forth with military bases being targeted and it wasn't a sort of level of full hostility that we'd seen when the war started. The sort of US and Israel offensive began initially back in the end of February. And then of course the response from Iran. It wasn't that level of response, but we did see continual back and forth between the two sides during that in between period. And during that time we also heard from President Trump talking almost in a carrot and stick terms about this negotiation with the Iranians, saying that there are all these wonderful things that would happen if there was an agreement between the US and Iran and if there wasn't the sort of damage that he would inflict on Iran instead. So is this him returning to a similar position or is this genuinely a change in where we have been in the course of the last month or so and that we are now moving towards more hostilities? That is what is still unclear.
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Ankar Desai
Yeah, it's interesting. Note that maybe he's putting pressure not just on Iran, his own negotiating team as well, to try and come up with some solution. And this comes off with the backdrop of more serious clashes than we've seen for quite some time.
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BBC Correspondent (e.g., Caroline Davies or Asma Khalid)
Yes. So of course this particular recent clashes started because there were three tankers earlier this week that were hit when trying to cross the Strait of Hormuz. The US and Israel and Qatar. They blamed Iran for those attacks. Iran's never directly said that they were involved. However they did, the Foreign Minister put out, made some comments essentially saying that if people would to use alternative routes that had not been agreed with Iran, that they risked what he referred to as a collision. So there wasn't a direct recognition. However, after that happened, that was the point at which the US then decided that they were going to remove the waiver that they'd got in place on oil sanctions. And then of course, overnight last night we had this announcement from the US saying that they were now conducting these strikes on air defences in Iran and also on their capacity to be able to attack ships that were crossing through the Strait. Of moves, including targeting, they said, more than 60 of these high speed boats. So that was what the US response was. Then Iran said that they had attacked military bases in Kuwait and in Bahrain. So again, initially that was all seen as a bit of a tit for tat back and forth. But the fact that the President has now said that the ceasefire and the MOU is over in his eyes it does beg the question, how much further does this escalate?
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Ankar Desai
Caroline Davies reporting. Well, Tehran has described the US Bombardment of coastal facilities as a blatant violation of the ceasefire, warning it will take decisive action. Iran's top negotiator Mohammad Bagheer Ghalibaf, posted online, the era of bullying and extortion is over. It leads nowhere. We don't fold. Well, there's been no official statement on President Trump's comments that the ceasefire is over. But as we heard from Parham Ghabadi from BBC Persian, the message from Iran's leaders over the last few hours has remained defiant.
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Parham Ghabadi
They are saying that we will respond heavily. But Iranian chief negotiator Mohammed Boger Golibov has tweeted and he has said that he's accusing Americans of violating the Memorandum of Understanding. And he mentions several things. He says they have violated Iranian adjustments in the Strait of Hormuz, their persistent threats of further strikes, their reinstating of oil sanctions and attacks on southern Iran. Himansh. And also he calls Israeli attacks in Lebanon. He says these are the things that are the reasons that Iranians are reacting. But the thing is that Iran wants to exert its control in the Strait of Hormuz. According to the Memorandum of Understanding, they're not going to charge for 60 days. But it's vague. It says that Iran can do some adjustments. What are these adjustments? How are Iranians going to manage the Strait of Hormuz? So Iran does not want any ships to go through Oman because they want to have the control. Because they are saying that a few days ago, Iranian ambassador to China said that after the 60 days is over, we are going to get some fees. They say it's not at all, but it's some fees. And the reason for that is that this is an infinite source of income for Iran, whereas oil waivers, as you can see right now, they can be just canceled in a minute or if anything develops.
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Ankar Desai
Param Gobadi from BBC Persia. At the NATO summit, Donald Trump also spoke alongside Volodymyr Zelensky, who said they would hold formal talks to discuss air defenses, a drone deal, and crucially, Ukraine getting licenses for Patriot missile production, which are those key interceptors of the ballistic missiles Russia has been pounding Kyiv with. The US President said he's still actively negotiating with Vladimir Putin.
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Donald Trump
I talked to him, I talked to him, I talked to President Zelensky. And I think that's all I've done my whole life. I made deals. That's, I guess becoming president was making a Deal, right. It was like a lot of little individual things. In the end, it's making a deal. And that's what I do. And I do it well. And I know when people want to make a deal, I think he wants to make a deal. And I do feel that President Zelensky would like to get back to rebuilding his country as opposed to, you know, having all of this death and destruction.
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Ankar Desai
A correspondent, Sarah Rainsford was watching from Kyiv and spoke to Lucy Hawkins about what we heard.
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Sarah Rainsford
I think particularly important, just generally the mood music, the atmosphere of these pre talk talks, if you like, this encounter between the two men, which we can get into in a second. But yeah, in terms of the real concrete results, already even before they've sat down for their formal talks, is the announcement by Donald Trump that he will allow Ukraine to produce Patriot missiles here. That means interceptor missiles for the Patriot anti ballistic missile system. So to allow Ukraine to be able eventually to produce the missiles, it needs to shoot Russia's ballistic missiles out of the skies. Now, why is that important? Well, not long ago, about an hour or so ago, just behind me here in the distance on the horizon, there was a huge, huge cloud of black smoke coming from a very big fire in the distance. Just the latest evidence on the horizon here of what Russia has been doing to Ukraine. And that is hitting it hard with missiles and with drones for days and days and causing a lot of civilian casualties is here another two people killed here in Kyiv today, two people in Kharkiv up in the north too. So the argument Ukraine has been making is that it needs the ability to protect this country from Russia's ballistic missiles. And for that it needs American technology, essentially, it needs Patriot missiles.
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Christopher Nolan
Now.
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Sarah Rainsford
Interesting to underline that. Donald Trump was asked, will he give Ukraine more Patriot missiles from American stockpiles? And he said, well, we don't have many. We've got some. We've not got many.
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Ankar Desai
We need them.
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Sarah Rainsford
But he said Ukraine will be able to produce its own quickly. We're going to give them the license. He said, I haven't told the company yet, but that's going to happen. So I think, you know, that's not going to happen immediately. It's not going to solve the immediate problem. But it is something, as you say, that President Zelensky has been asking for, for a very, very long time. Sarah, he said, President Trump, that he speaks a lot to President Putin. He said he definitely wants to end this war, would like a meeting perhaps to take place in Moscow. How much can we read into that? That is something that has been said before by President Trump, but he seems quite convinced that Vladimir Putin wants to move towards some kind of settlement and an agreement to end the conflict. Yeah, I mean, a few things there. The fact that Vladimir Putin is suggesting a meeting in Moscow means he doesn't really want a meeting because that's obviously never going to happen. So I think that's the first thing to say. And it was quite an amusing moment in the press conference where the Volodymyr Zelenskyy chipped in and said that perhaps he wouldn't like to go to Moscow because for Zelenskyy, it was a bit dangerous because as he put it, there were a lot of Ukrainian drones in the skies over Moscow. So a bit of Ukrainian humor there. But, yeah, certainly Donald Trump is saying that President Putin wants a deal, he wants to end this war. He's also saying that as he understands that Volodymyr Zelenskyy wants the same thing. And that's certainly what he says publicly, whether that is actually realistic. Well, he was asked and he said that Russia's conditions for the end of this war had shifted slightly. He suggested, didn't give any details. We haven't seen any sign of that publicly. It's true. I think what is interesting is that Donald Trump tends to take sides and what was it, 18 months ago in the Oval Office, there were. There was a really acrimonious meeting between zelensky and Trump. Mr. Trump referred to to that today. He said, we actually have really good relations. It's hard to believe if you remember what happened in the Oval Office, they do have a much better relationship. And now what Donald Trump is talking about is very much in line with what Ukraine has been telling him. Saying that Ukraine has the advantage on the battlefield, saying that Ukraine has an advantage in the skies with its drone technology, talking quite admiringly about Ukrainian soldiers and Ukrainian technology, and repeating quite a few lines from President Zelensky. And that is new. He never used to do that. He used to repeat Vladimir Putin. So I think the fact that he shifted the way he's thinking, the way he's talking, is really significant to Vladimir Zelensky and to Ukraine as those two men head into this meeting.
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Ankar Desai
Sarah Rainsford reporting from Kyiv. And we have more on this on our YouTube channel. Search for BBC News on YouTube and you'll find Global News Podcast. In the podcast section, there's a new story available every weekday. To Sudan now, which is in its fourth year of a civil war. The United nations is warning of an Impending catastrophe in the Sudanese city of El Ubaid. Home to half a million people, it's a strategic hub linking the capital with western regions and has seen a significant uptick in drone attacks over recent weeks. Military analysts think there could be an imminent ground attack by paramilitary rapid support forces if they take the city. There are fears the RSF could carry out atrocities as they did when they took the city of Al Fasha last October. Our correspondent Akisa Vandera sent this report and a note. We changed the voices of some of these interviewees to protect their identities.
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Akisa Vandera
We were sitting at the gas station waiting for a car. We just suddenly heard the sound of the drone's missile and suddenly the whole world lit up and then went dark. Sarah, not her real name, was waiting for transport in Sudan's city of El Abeid when a drone strike hit a nearby fuel station. The sounds became distant. We couldn't hear well and in front of us there were injured people, blood, burnt cars and smashed cars. The 27 year old student survived but has shrapnel in her leg. This is a current reality for Sara and over half a million residents of El Abeid in Sudan's North Kordofan state. For months, El Obeid offered refuge to people escaping conflict across Sudan. More than 100,000 displaced people have sought shelter there. But now, as drone attacks intensify and shortages of fuel, water and essential supplies worsen, many fear the city is becoming another frontline in Sudan's war. UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Volca Tak warns that a humanitarian catastrophe is unfolding.
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Parham Ghabadi
It is a red alert that needs to land on the desks of heads of state and government around the world.
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Akisa Vandera
The city sits at a strategic crossroads linking army held areas around Khartoum with the western Darfur region that's largely controlled by the rsf. Hospitals too are struggling. A doctor in one of the city's major hospitals told the BBC the situation is terrifying. We receive injured patients after almost every drone attack and the hospital is under constant pressure. Last week, a seven month old baby was brought to hospital after being injured. Her hand had to be amputated because of the severity of the injury, but sadly, she did not survive. Human rights groups now fear some of the warning signs missed in Al Fasha, including attacks on civilian infrastructure and the disruption of basic services, are beginning to emerge in El Obeid. But while the fight over the city escalates, its residents are fighting to survive. People now leave their homes saying goodbye to their families because they don't know if they will return or not that.
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Ankar Desai
Report by Akisa Wandera still to come in this podcast, Paris will be the gaming capital of the world for the next seven weeks. Hello, I'm Nikita Syrmotov, AKA Derke, playing for Team Vitality in Valorant.
- [18:03]
McDonald's Advertiser
You're based in Paris.
- [18:04]
Ankar Desai
Really excited because I never played in front of a French crowd before. Yet the esports gaming World cup kicks off with a combined price spot of $75 million. All new drinks are now at McDonald's
- [18:25]
Donald Trump
with refreshers like the Strawberry Watermelon Refresher
- [18:29]
Ankar Desai
and the Mango Pineapple Refresher with popping Boba. To crafted sodas like the Sprite Berry Blast with berry flavors and cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire six? All new drinks are here now at McDonald's. Refreshers contain caffeine.
- [18:52]
BBC Correspondent (e.g., Caroline Davies or Asma Khalid)
The CIA has been carrying out covert operations around the world for decades. How has it shaped how people feel about the U.S. i'm Asma Khalid.
- [19:00]
Ankar Desai
And I'm Tristan Redman and together we host the Global Story podcast from the BBC. As part of our series to mark the United States States 250th birthday, we're exploring the CIA's hidden history.
- [19:12]
BBC Correspondent (e.g., Caroline Davies or Asma Khalid)
Do you think the word of the United States will be trusted in years to come? For more, check out the global story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Ankar Desai
This is the Global News Podcast. There was heated debate in France on Tuesday evening as ministers in the national assembly deliberated over a highly contentious bill that would automatically presume police officers acted lawfully in cases involving shootings. And despite vocal opposition from left wing groups who argued the measure could amount to a license to kill, the legislation was eventually approved by French MPs. Supporters said it would provide necessary protection for law enforcement officers facing increasingly dangerous situations on the ground. I got more on this from our global affairs reporter, Paul Moss.
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Paul Moss
When you look at it in detail, it is a little hard to see what it changes. And that indeed raises interesting questions about exactly why this bill was introduced, which I will come to. If a police officer was prosecuted for a killing, they would be presumed innocent anyway, as all criminal cases. But the reason why we heard the kind of protests you heard just then, why it's got people so angry is they're worried that it sends a signal to the police by saying, look, there will be a presumption you acted lawfully. They're saying this gives the police a right to kill, but they're licensed to kill. But what the people who defend the bill say is, look, if the policeman shoots someone, then the prosecutors can overturn that presumption and proceedings can begin. But as you see, very, very divisive.
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Ankar Desai
Okay, so it's very controversial. The bills won support from the government and also parties of the right, far right working together. So just talk about the politics behind this as well.
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Paul Moss
Well, the politics are very interesting here. And there's a funny coincidence. On Tuesday, as well as this bill going through before Parliament, what we also saw was judges saying that Marine Le Pen could stand for the presidential election when it comes in France. She, of course, the candidate for the far right national rally. Now, the national rally have for years been saying we need more bills, more laws to protect the police. And it's interesting they've been calling for it. But this measure was introduced, in fact, by a centre right MP from the the Republicans party, and as you suggested, supported by the ruling party of Emmanuel Macron. And what cynics are saying is, look, they do not want to go into an election with a national rally able to say, look, we're the party that's tough on crime. We're the party that supports police. They don't want to be outflanked in this way. And so therefore they're adopting the measure and giving it their support. I should say the mill does still have to go before the upper house, but with this kind of broad political support, I don't think it's in any danger of falling, but it will be opposed. I mean, one thing you need to know is that the French police already have one of the highest rates in Europe for shooting people dead. I was just looking at the figures the last years for which there were figures. I think it goes up to 20, 24. They shoot between 50 and 70 people dead every year. Disproportionately. They are black or from an Arab background. And that has led to lots of calls for people to say, look, we want tougher monitoring of police, more investigation when they shoot people. And in fact, this law clearly goes in completely the other direction. I should mention also it continues a trend. In 2017, they brought in a law which said police are entitled to shoot at someone if they're driving away and they can't stop them in any other way. And a group of academics studied this. They claim that led to a massive increase in the rate at which police were shooting people dead in France. And what they're worried about is that this measure will have the same effect.
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Ankar Desai
Paul Moss reporting. After the leader of Britain's populist right wing party Reform UK announced his resignation, forcing Another election to take place in his constituency. All the major political parties have now said they won't put forward candidates. Nigel Farage, whose party is leading the opinion polls, said he will stand as a candidate in the election, describing the vote as a battle against the establishment. Opposition parties have labeled it as a stunt. The background to this is that Mr. Farage is being investigated over private donations he received before becoming an mp, which he didn't declare. Our political correspondent Rob Watson told us more.
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Rob Watson
What's triggered it, what's made this actually happen just yesterday is the buildup of stories, in particular news story at the weekend about how Nigel Farage had received gifts in kind from a supporter in terms of staff and officers. And that was on top of a story that had been running for some time about how he'd received 5 million pounds from a crypto millionaire. And essentially, in British politics, the kind of rules are that even if you're not an MP in the year up to becoming an mp, if you've received any donations of any kind that might be seen to be political, you need to declare them. And Nigel Farage hadn't. Now, he has argued, look, they were all personal. It's nothing to do with my role as a politician. Now, others have disagreed and it's being investigated by the Parliamentary Standards commission, certainly the 5 million donation. So why now? I think Nigel Farage has just decided, look, I'm going to take them on, I'm going to come out fighting. He's pitched this, as he has before, as you were saying, as a battle between the people, that's him against the establishment, by which is meant that the main parties and the media. And of course he's doing it because, you know, these stories have been rather damaging because, you know, he styles himself as Nigel Farage, man of the people, and this kind of stuff about, you know, lining your pockets doesn't look very good.
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Ankar Desai
Now, if the other parties won't take part in the by election, what does that mean, Rob? Because some of the other parties are accusing Nigel Farage of a stunt.
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Rob Watson
Absolutely. Oh, gimmick you. Several different words. I mean, the verdict of many of Britain's newspapers this morning is that it's in danger of turning into a farce. I mean, if they don't stand, Nigel Farage stands without any of the other main parties, it'll be, well, I mean, would look like a walkover. So, yeah, it's as a dangerous that his gamble, which, which was about taking on the establishment, reasserting that, you know, him against the establishment line falls Rather flat.
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Ankar Desai
Just very briefly then, Rob, how is Nigel Farage taking all of this scrutiny? Is it him trying to reassert the upper hand? I guess.
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Rob Watson
Well, he hasn't been taking it well and there are two views. His supporters say that's because, you know, the main part is the media genuinely have it in for him. His. His critics say it shows you that he's rather thin skinned, doesn't like scrutiny and is therefore unfit for high office.
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Ankar Desai
Rob Watson reporting there. While the world's attention is on the carnival of football stateside, there is a rather different World cup about to kick off in France. The esports World cup. That's competitive video gaming. If you're wondering where top players and teams from around the globe battle it out in front of huge crowds and online fans, around 2,000 of the best competitive gamers are participating. And a flashy opening ceremony will take place on Wednesday night by the river Seine in Paris. It's the first time the event, the biggest in global esports, has been held outside of Saudi Arabia, as the BBC's Andrew Rogers explains.
- [26:33]
McDonald's Advertiser
Welcome to Paris, where over the next seven weeks, the world's top professional gamers will compete with for a record combined price pot of $75 million, playing games like Call of Duty, Football Sim, EAFC and Street Fighter. Plenty more too. There's 24 games in total as part of the lineup. Here's how it essentially works. Players are part of big multinational teams based around the world. Win an event and you get a cash prize and points. Get the most points by the end of the summer and you don't just get a big trophy, you get a bonus $7 million too. That's something these fans say is worth watching. Pretty amazing.
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Ankar Desai
I've landed here earlier today and just
- [27:14]
BBC Correspondent (e.g., Caroline Davies or Asma Khalid)
traveling here to get to the event.
- [27:16]
Ankar Desai
So I'm from Austria, I'm from Germany. As soon as I heard that it's in Paris, I had to get tickets.
- [27:20]
Sarah Rainsford
Yeah, the same.
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Parham Ghabadi
We were stopping in Paris on vacation and my buddy over there was like, the esports World cup is in Paris the same time we are. And so we booked tickets just for fun.
- [27:32]
McDonald's Advertiser
It might be really hot outside right now, but inside the massive and thankfully air conditioned Port de Versailles convention center, events have already started taking place, including the one that this guy plays, Valorant.
- [27:44]
Ankar Desai
Hello, I'm Nikita Syrmotov, AKA Derke, playing for team Vitality in Valorant.
- [27:49]
McDonald's Advertiser
And you're based in Paris.
- [27:51]
Ankar Desai
Really excited because I had never played in front of a French crowd before,
- [27:54]
McDonald's Advertiser
yet peace crowds making plenty of noise. But all of them are actually, actually here. Pretty last minute because this isn't how things were meant to go. The esports World cup has always been held in Saudi Arabia, a country this event gets lots of its funding from. But with just weeks ago it announced it would move to France because of instability in the Gulf region. Mike McCabe is one of the tournament's top bosses.
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Ankar Desai
This is over 45,000 square meters of space. We have seven stages. It's a massive undertaking. We have enough cable, but powering all of these incredible technical systems to get basically from London to Birmingham and back again. We still can't quite believe that we're here. Everything's working.
- [28:37]
McDonald's Advertiser
Organizers say it was always planning to move to new cities, but global events meant bumping that plan up sooner. It did though, leave just weeks to arrange complicated live broadcasts and opening ceremonies expected to be watched by millions online. Not that these guys mind.
- [28:52]
BBC Correspondent (e.g., Caroline Davies or Asma Khalid)
I booked my tickets right away and came.
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Sarah Rainsford
So it's great to have this in France.
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Parham Ghabadi
It is just amazing to see that
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Ankar Desai
we get a bit more Europe representation. Andrew Rogers reporting from Paris. The Oscar winning filmmaker Christopher Nolan is renowned for his ambitious large scale blockbusters like Oppenheimer, Interstellar and Dunkirk. And now he's turned to one of the oldest stories in western literature for his next project. A retelling of Homer's epic the Odyssey. It features some of the biggest names in acting and was filmed on real ships in seas across six countries. Matt Damon is Homer's hero, Odysseus. Tom Holland plays his son in a story that is nearly 3,000 years old. But according to Nolan, it's crowd pleasing popcorn stuff. Our culture editor Katie Razzle met him and some of his stars.
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Katie Razzle
Everyone wants to work with Christopher Nolan.
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Ankar Desai
We want a war.
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Katie Razzle
Matt Damon plays Greek hero Odysseus.
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Ankar Desai
Help me go home.
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Christopher Nolan
He said, I'd like to offer you the lead role. And so I just said yeah. And he goes, don't you want to hear what it is?
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BBC Correspondent (e.g., Caroline Davies or Asma Khalid)
Ithacus King is coming back.
- [29:58]
Ankar Desai
No, he's not.
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Katie Razzle
Anne Hathaway is Odysseus wife Penelope.
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Anne Hathaway
When I got the call it was, how quickly can you get on a plane to Los Angeles? Because I live in New York with my family and I said, I think I've missed all the flights today, but how about tomorrow?
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Katie Razzle
Unlike Hathaway and Damon, Tom Holland as their son, My dad is coming home and his wife Zendaya who plays the goddess Athena are first timers in a Nolan movie. You yearn for that opportunity and then you get the opportunity and that comes with a lot of pressure. Even Christopher Nolan was a little intimidated after the success of Oppenheimer.
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Christopher Nolan
You're talking about turning theory into a
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Paul Moss
practical weapon system faster than the Nazis.
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Christopher Nolan
You have ways of coping with it. My son walked into my office while I was writing on the Odyssey and said, where are your Oscars? And I said, well, I'm trying to write a new project, and if I've got Oscars sitting there on the shelf, think about how daunting that would be. And he looked at me and said, but you didn't win for writing just from the jump.
- [30:55]
Anne Hathaway
I thought, this isn't the Penelope that I've come to expect. This is a volcano of a woman.
- [31:01]
Sarah Rainsford
Promise me you will come back.
- [31:03]
Ankar Desai
What if I can?
- [31:04]
Katie Razzle
Anne Hathaway's character has waited 20 years for her husband to return from war while watching her son grow up without him.
- [31:12]
Anne Hathaway
It was really interesting to kind of translate what my idea of being a loving mother is to 3,000 years ago to. I know this is going to sound silly, but go to a pre therapy world. You know, there's no such thing as gentle parenting in ancient Greece. The stakes were really, really high. She's already been separated from one great love in her life, and so I think that makes her cling more tightly to the other great love of her life, her child.
- [31:37]
Katie Razzle
There are big themes to be read into this film. What makes a man, the trauma of war and the ancient Greek tradition of hospitality to strangers.
- [31:46]
Christopher Nolan
It's essentially the golden rule. It says, treat others as you would be treated. And when that principle of respecting others is ignored or abused, things fall apart.
- [31:58]
Katie Razzle
Have we lost that hospitality that the Greeks talk about?
- [32:02]
Christopher Nolan
There's a danger that we're not valuing it as we should. But if you think about it, it's so fundamental that if we'd really lost that it would be chaos and anarchy everywhere in the world. I mean, it is what holds our society together.
- [32:16]
Katie Razzle
And when you're making a film like this, do you think about how it will be received by modern audiences and whether it is picking up something about our culture?
- [32:24]
Christopher Nolan
No, I don't. But I also trust that if done right, that process will lead to something that does reflect the world we live in.
- [32:31]
Ankar Desai
What would he do if he came back here to find all these suitors in his house?
- [32:34]
Katie Razzle
Tom Holland's got two big films this summer, a new Spider man movie and the Odyssey, with its themes around masculinity that feel very timely. Maybe what you can learn from this movie about masculinity is that it comes in all shapes and sizes and there's no version of it that's perfect and that people are flawed. You seem very relaxed about the whole idea of what it is to be a man. I'm just living my life the way my parents raised me, which was to be respectful to anyone and everyone and to be humble, to enjoy your successes, to work hard and, you know, don't take anything for granted. What was new for you on this set? What did you learn on the Odyssey? I mean, I did a lot of sword fighting, which I loved. Useful in future life. I mean, if someone broke into my house, you're keeping a sword at home now? I have a cricket bat, actually, and I could wield that in a sword, like fashion.
- [33:28]
Ankar Desai
I think it's asleep. That report from our culture editor, Katie Razzle. And that's all from us for now. If you want to get in touch, you can email us@globalpodcastbc.co.uk you can also find us on X@BBC World Service. Use the hashtag globalnewspod. And don't forget our sister podcast, the Global Story, which goes in depth and beyond the headlines on one big story. This edition of the Global News Podcast was mixed by Chris Murphy and the producer was Stephanie Tillotson. The editor is Karen Martin and I'm Ankar Desai. Until next time, goodbye.
- [34:10]
Akisa Vandera
Foreign
- [34:14]
BBC Correspondent (e.g., Caroline Davies or Asma Khalid)
the CIA has been carrying out covert operations around the world for decades. How has it shaped how people feel about the U.S. i'm Asma Khalid.
- [34:22]
Ankar Desai
And I'm Tristan Redman, and together we host the Global Story podcast from the BBC. As part of our series to mark the United States 250th birthday, we're exploring the CIA's hidden history.
- [34:35]
BBC Correspondent (e.g., Caroline Davies or Asma Khalid)
You think the word of the United States will be trusted in years to come? For more, check out the global story on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.