Captured Venezuelan leader Maduro in New York

Summary

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Global News Podcast – Captured Venezuelan leader Maduro in New York

BBC World Service | Host: Charlotte Gallagher | Date: January 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

This urgent edition of the Global News Podcast covers the stunning capture of Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro by US special forces, his arrival in New York to face drug trafficking charges, and the international and domestic fallout from this unprecedented event. With voices from Caracas, Miami, Washington, and Colombia, the episode offers on-the-ground reactions, geopolitical speculation, and a sense of uncertainty gripping Venezuela and its neighbors.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Capture of Nicolás Maduro

(01:08–03:25)

• Maduro and his wife were seized in Venezuela and flown to New York by US special forces, facing charges of narco-trafficking and terrorism.
• Arrival footage showed him "dressed in gray, hands tied, eyes blindfolded" (01:55).
• Process in New York: He will be "processed and booked... and taken to the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn" (Vanessa Silva, 02:37).

Notable Quote

“Despite the extraordinary circumstances... he will be treated just as any other criminal defendant of high profile has been treated in New York.”
— BBC Correspondent Vanessa Silva (02:37)

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2. Venezuelan Reaction: Fear, Uncertainty, and Hope

(01:43–02:01, 06:08–12:24)

• In Caracas, “there is always this fear after things like this happen that we will start seeing anarchy...there are lots of armed people that have been given weapons.” (Venezuelan Resident, 01:43)
• Streets are described as "empty", with a pervasive sense of "uncertainty in the entire country for everyone... what will happen tomorrow, what will happen in the next hour? Nobody knows..." (BBC Announcer, 06:27)
• Many feel relief at Maduro’s ouster but fear chaos or retribution.

Notable Quote

“We are so fed up. I mean, we are so, so tired that we probably will respond in a positive way and not allow these things to happen... I have to say it, we do feel a kind of relief.”
— Venezuelan Resident in Caracas (10:36)

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3. US Position and Trump's Statements

(03:25–10:17)

• Trump declared, “the US intends to run Venezuela until a transition can be achieved,” and is unafraid of “putting boots on the ground.” (Charlotte Gallagher, 07:17)
• Confusion about the nature of the US role and “lack of clarity” over how a transition of power will be managed, as well as who will lead Venezuela in the short term.
• Strong indications that access to Venezuelan oil is a US objective: “Trump sees one of the major objectives here as American access to Venezuela's oil well.” (Tom Bateman, 08:15)

Notable Quote

“He was going to send in US oil companies. That obviously is going to raise a lot of eyebrows.”
— Charlotte Gallagher (09:14)

“He says something now and tomorrow he changes his mind. I mean, I'm just grateful for what they did, taking Maduro out of here... at least we can see some light at the end of the tunnel.”
— Venezuelan Resident, on Trump's announcement (12:24)

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4. International and Regional Reactions

(17:00–25:01)

• Colombia: Fears of renewed migration and violence along the border; Colombian armed forces mobilized.
• Regional Division: Latin American countries split—Mexico and Brazil decry the move as a violation of sovereignty; Argentina (President Milei) applauds it.
• UN and Global Response: UN Security Council to hold an emergency session; UK PM Keir Starmer denies UK involvement, calls for upholding international law; Russia and China condemn the US action.

Notable Quote

“There are many reasons why this is major in Colombia: migration, illegal armed groups, and even the probability of a US intervention here too.”
— Daniel Pardo, BBC Mundo (18:18)

“Many in Latin America were taught to be very concerned about this type of US feeling about the Monroe Doctrine.”
— Luis Fajardo, BBC Monitoring (23:15)

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5. Celebrations and Mixed Feelings in the Venezuelan Diaspora

(13:32–23:10)

• Venezuelan expatriates in Miami express overwhelming relief and happiness.
• Some see the US action as the first step towards the possibility of returning home.
• Not all Latin Americans are supportive; concerns about US interventionism persist.

Notable Quote

“Thank you, President Trump... I’m so, so happy because now Venezuela is free.”
— Venezuelan Expatriate in Miami (13:32)

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6. Venezuela’s Oil at the Heart of the Crisis

(16:14–18:01)

• Venezuela's vast oil reserves are central to both the US justification and global anxieties.
• Oil infrastructure is outdated and mismanaged; control of these resources is symbolically and practically important.

Notable Quote

“The infrastructure is old, it’s rotted... and we’re going to be replacing it and we’re going to take a lot of money out so that we can take care of the country.”
— President Trump, via Tom Bateman (16:14)

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Timeline & Timestamps of Key Moments

• 01:08 – Episode begins; overview of Maduro’s capture.
• 02:37 – Process of booking Maduro in New York explained.
• 03:25 – Maduro’s denial of the charges; state of emergency declared.
• 04:10–04:43 – Visual confirmation of Trump and officials monitoring the operation.
• 06:27 – Scenes from Caracas: empty streets, uncertainty.
• 07:17–09:14 – US government’s stated intentions; Trump’s statements analyzed.
• 10:36–12:24 – Caracas resident’s perspective; mix of hope and skepticism toward US role.
• 13:32–13:39 – Reaction of Venezuelan expatriates in Miami.
• 16:14–18:01 – Venezuela’s oil industry, US motivations, and industry background.
• 18:18–21:18 – Colombia’s response; regional worries about power vacuum and security.
• 21:18–23:10 – Reactions among Latin American countries; diaspora perspectives.
• 25:01–26:53 – Global responses: UN, UK, Russia, and China.

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Memorable Quotes & Their Speakers

• “There is always this fear after things like this happen that we will start seeing anarchy... a lot of uncertainty for everyone.”
  — Venezuelan Resident (01:43, 06:27)

• “It was a force against a heavily fortified military fortress in the heart of Caracas to bring outlaw dictator Nicolás Maduro to justice. It was dark and it was deadly.”
  — BBC Correspondent Tom Bateman (04:20)

• “I don’t want to take seriously his words because you know how he is... at least we can see some light at the end of the tunnel.”
  — Venezuelan Resident (12:24)

• “Thank you, President Trump. I’m so, so happy because now Venezuela is free.”
  — Venezuelan Expatriate in Miami (13:32)

• “Many in Latin America, more than any other region, have serious nationalistic concerns about their relationship with the US.”
  — Luis Fajardo, BBC Monitoring (23:15)

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Tone

The episode maintains a factual and urgent tone, punctuated by interviews that reveal fear, relief, skepticism, and profound uncertainty among Venezuelans and the wider region. The reporting strives for clarity amid a rapidly evolving crisis, while voicing diverse perspectives and anxieties.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• The US-led operation to capture Nicolás Maduro marks a seismic, unpredictable moment for Venezuela and Latin America.
• Venezuelans, both at home and abroad, express a cautious mix of relief and anxiety about their nation’s unstable future.
• The presence and control of oil, and shifting geopolitical priorities, are as central to the crisis as political freedom and justice.
• Reactions across the region—and the world—are deeply divided, with legal, humanitarian, and strategic consequences likely to unfold for months and years to come.

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Transcript

[BBC Announcer]

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[Venezuelan Expatriate in Miami]

Ultra soft, smooth.

[Charlotte Gallagher]

This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Charlotte Gallagher and in the early hours of the 4th of January, these are our main stories. Venezuela's President Nicolas Maduro has arrived in New York where he's facing drug charges and after being captured by US Troops. President Trump has said his administration intends to run Venezuela until a transition can be achieved. Also in this podcast, how does it all feel? Inside Venezuela?

[Venezuelan Resident]

There is always this fear after things like this happen that we will start seeing anarchy taking place. There are lots of armed people that have been given weapons.

[Charlotte Gallagher]

We'll hear from a woman in the capital, Caraca, Caracas. The Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro and his wife are now in the US after their capture by American special forces. In Caracas, several dozen people who appeared to be law enforcement officers led a figure dressed in gray from a plane across the tarmac of New York's Stuart Air National Guard base. Earlier, Donald Trump had posted a picture which showed Nicholas Maduro after being captured by the us he was wearing a gray tracksuit, his hands tied, his eyes blindfolded. Among the journalists watching his arrival in New York was our correspondent Neda Taufik.

[BBC Correspondent Vanessa Silva]

Despite the extraordinary circumstances of all of this, he will be treated just as any other criminal defendant of high profile has been treated in New York. He will be taken by law enforcement to be processed and booked to be fingerprinted to have his mugshot taken, taken to finally then go to the Metropolitan Detention center in Brooklyn. There he and his wife are expected to be put into a special part of the jail away from the regular population and we expect on Monday that he will then face those charges against him to have them read out in court 25 page indictment that accuses him of narco trafficking and importation of cocaine.

[Charlotte Gallagher]

Neta Tauf Nicholas Maduro has always denied any links to the drug trade and his vice president Delsey Rodriguez called his capture an illegal kidnapping. Appearing on state television alongside senior government figures, she said a state of emergency had been declared. Venezuela's high court has ordered that Delsey Rodriguez should take up the role of interim president. The opposition leader, Maria Karina Machado, welcomed the US Intervention, saying Venezuela's hour of freedom had arrived. Asked whether she should take power, Mr. Trump said the Nobel Peace Prize winner was a very nice woman, but lacked support and respect in the country. The BBC's Vanessa Silva is in the capital, Caracas, and watched the American attack unfold.

[BBC Correspondent Vanessa Silva]

Pictures posted by President Trump on social media appear to show him and his top officials watching the overnight operations unfold.

[BBC Correspondent Tom Bateman]

It was a force against a heavily fortified military fortress in the heart of Caracas to bring outlaw dictator Nicolas Maduro to justice. It was dark and it was deadly. But captured, along with his wife, Celia Flores, both of whom now face American justice.

[BBC Correspondent Vanessa Silva]

The capture led many wondering who will now run Venezuela and then we're going.

[BBC Correspondent Tom Bateman]

To run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper and judicious transition.

[BBC Correspondent Vanessa Silva]

Nicolas Maduro has led Venezuela for more than a decade. Now Washington says he will face charges including terrorism and drug trafficking in the United States. His capture was part of a huge military operation with Venezuelans reaped from their sleep by loud explosions in military sites across the country. Residents cowered in fear as the US Military struck an airstrip and a military base in the heart of the capital, Caracas. The US has long accused Nicolas Maduro of running a criminal network, claims he denies. Just days ago, he said he was.

[BBC State Department Correspondent]

Open to talks if they want to.

[Venezuelan Resident]

Seriously discuss an agreement to combat drug trafficking.

[BBC Correspondent Tom Bateman]

We're ready if they want Venezuelan oil.

[Venezuelan Resident]

Is Venezuelan ready for US Investments like with Chevron?

[Charlotte Gallagher]

Whenever, wherever and however they want.

[BBC Correspondent Vanessa Silva]

Venezuelans have been living under the threat of US Military action for weeks. The US has now acted on that threat. And most Venezuelans, supporters and opponents of President Nicolas Maduro are simply concerned about what comes next.

[BBC Announcer]

Look, you see the streets empty. People are in their own thing, buying things to go back home. A lot of uncertainty in the entire country for everyone. You, me, someone walking. What will happen tomorrow, what will happen in the next hour? Nobody knows. But, well, it's an enigma that we are living right now.

[BBC Correspondent Vanessa Silva]

Many Venezuelans wanted Nicolas Maduro out. He was widely considered to have stolen the recent presidential election. But as the hours pass, the full realization of what has happened, happened is hitting Venezuelans. Despite these historic events, the future remains as uncertain as ever.

[Charlotte Gallagher]

Vanessa Silva in Caracas. As we've been hearing, President Trump has said the US Intends to run Venezuela and he isn't afraid of putting boots on the ground for More on how events are unfolding. Here's our State Department correspondent, Tom Bateman.

[BBC State Department Correspondent]

We've had, you know, I think as each hour has passed here in Washington, just first of all, more of the remarkable detail that has been variously briefed, some by anonymous officials, others on the record by the US Military, including details from unnamed officials suggesting that it was a CIA informant in Mr. Maduro's inner circle that was giving real time information on his location, that stealth drones were being used to follow him as well, and that when these elite Delta forces went in, Mr. Maduro had tried to escaped to a safe room and was basically still trying to close the door when they captured him. Now, in addition to that, has then been the justification by the administration which broadly has been around this idea that this was a law enforcement exercise carried out by the US military because Mr. Maduro had already been indicted on drug trafficking allegations, which he has always rejected, saying that was just a front for an attempt to regime change. And then I think this remarkable moment when Mr. Trump said that the US would now run Venezuela until such time as there could be a transition. Now, it felt to me there was just a real lack of clarity about exactly how that would be done beyond the very clear threat of coercion basically towards the people that remain of Mr. Maduro's regime and namely the vice President, Delsey Rodriguez, who it seemed, you know, had this lengthy conversation with the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, and Mr. Trump seemed sat politicized, would do what the Americans want. And he is making no secret of the fact that he sees one of the major objectives here as American access to Venezuela's oil well.

[Charlotte Gallagher]

I mean, he said that, didn't he? He was going to send in U.S. oil companies. That obviously is going to raise a lot of eyebrows.

[BBC State Department Correspondent]

Yeah, and I think that's where this, you know, throughout the last three months, as we saw this huge US Military buildup in the Caribbean Sea of Venezuela, a kind of zigzagging of really what the intention was. Now, the biggest justification that's given by the Americans is that they see Venezuela as a key linchpin of the drug and people trafficking into the US that this administration sees as America's biggest national security threat. And so they have acted on that. They say, despite the fact that, you know, they've got a lot of criticism, especially from the democratic opposition who see this as illegal, unconstitutional, a kind of bullying campaign against a smaller nation. I think the problem is now how the Americans use their role now because they have basically carried out a decapitation but are they replacing Mr. Maduro with, in effect, the Trump administration, with still the support of elements of the Maduro regime?

[Charlotte Gallagher]

That's Tom Bateman in Washington, and he's also been speaking to a woman in Caracas. We're not using her name as she's afraid that might put her in danger. She supports the opposition and got woken up at 2am by explosions and aircraft flying over her home. She told Tom how she sees her country's future.

[Venezuelan Resident]

Well, we do hope there will be justice. As you all know, we've been through many years now of all these atrocities taking part of our daily life in Venezuela. Personally, I feel hopeful that things will be done in the way it should be, correctly. There is always this fear after things like this happen that we will start seeing anarchy taking place. There are lots of armed people that have been given weapons to take care of the personalities that belong to the regime, that probably they're out there. But on the other hand, I trust our people. We are so fed up. I mean, we are so, so tired that we probably will respond in a positive way and not allow these things to happen. Probably I'm being too optimistic, I don't know. But we do feel a kind of relief. You know, I have to say it.

[BBC State Department Correspondent]

Were you able to watch President Trump's press conference?

[Venezuelan Resident]

I mean, that's a different story. After listening to him saying we will run Venezuela. And then the second thing, when they asked him about Maria Corina Machado, listening to him and saying that she's not respected in her country. What is he talking about? I mean, he doesn't know what he's saying. I mean, so embarrassing from a president. It's really, really disappointing.

[BBC State Department Correspondent]

I mean, but this is the big question now, isn't it? Because, you know, he seemed to kind of contradict himself by saying, you know, the US Is going to run Venezuela until the transition. But then he mentioned Rodriguez. So what?

[Venezuelan Resident]

Don't. To tell you the truth, I. I don't want to take seriously his words because you know how he is. He says something now and tomorrow he changes his mind. I mean, I'm just grateful for what they did, taking Maduro out of here. But besides that, the next steps that will take place. Well, probably. Probably it would be a good idea that they are watchful on the transition and they will give some support. Besides that, I can't believe they're taking their oil back. They're taking what belonged to them back there. I mean, these kind of things I really want to ignore. I don't want to take them seriously. Well, we'll see what happens. I mean, we'll see how we manage that. But at least we can see some light at the end of the tunnel. After taking Maduro out of its country.

[Charlotte Gallagher]

That was Tom Bateman speaking to a resident of Caracas. Still to come in this podcast reaction from the Venezuelans who've settled in the U.S. i've been looking forward to this day for so many years.

[Venezuelan Expatriate in Miami]

Thank you, President Trump.

[BBC Correspondent Vanessa Silva]

I'm so, so happy because now Venezuela is free.

[Charlotte Gallagher]

Our correspondent has been speaking to people in Miami.

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[Charlotte Gallagher]

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[BBC Announcer]

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[Charlotte Gallagher]

This is the global news podcast. Nicolas Maduro has long said that Donald Trump's Interest in his country has less to do with stopping the flow of drugs and people into the US and more to do with gaining control of Venezuela's oil fields. And it's something President Trump didn't deny was part of his motivation.

[BBC Correspondent Tom Bateman]

It's actually very dangerous. It's, you know, blow up territory. Oil is very dangerous. It's a very dangerous thing to take out of the ground. Can kill a lot of people. It has killed a lot of people doing just that. The infrastructure is old, it's rotted. Much of it is stuff that we put there 25 years ago. And we're going to be replacing it and we're going to take a lot of money out so that we can take care of the country.

[Charlotte Gallagher]

Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world, but they're frequently accused of being mismanaged. In the 1970s, the country was responsible for more than 7% of global production. Last year it was around 1%. With his assessment, here's our business correspondent, Mark Ashdown.

[BBC Announcer]

Venezuela's oil reserves are estimated to total more than 300 billion barrels, the largest on Earth. It is primarily extra heavy crude, costly and difficult to extract. Yet Venezuela remains the world's fifth largest exporter. Even with the growing number of US Navy vessels being stationed in the Caribbean Sea. Last month still saw nearly a million barrels a day flowing to China, Southern Europe and the US Production has been hit in recent years by political unrest. And for decades, the country's state owned oil and natural gas company, Petroles de Venezuela has been hit by strikes and accusations of poor safety standards. The US has accused President Maduro of using oil money to fund drug trafficking. He has accused Washington of being intent on taking control of his country's oil reserves. The oil fields seem to have escaped any damage from the airstrikes. Whatever the future holds for Venezuela, its oil industry is likely to play a key role.

[Charlotte Gallagher]

That was Mark Ashdown. As you might imagine, this is also being watched very closely across Latin America, not least in Venezuela's neighbors. BBC Mundo correspondent Daniel Pardo is on the Venezuelan Colombian border where Colombia has announced its sending forces. He told us why?

[BBC Mundo Correspondent Daniel Pardo]

For many reasons. Because this is the country that is most affected by what happens in Venezuela. It's always been one third of the 8 million people who fled Venezuela in the past decade for the political and economic crisis are here in Colombia. So there's a fear that this is going to generate a new wave of migrations towards Colombia. But authorities in Colombia also think that many Venezuelans might want to go back to Venezuela. So they're trying to prepare for that. That's one reason. Second reason is that they want to control better and enforce their tackling of the armed groups, illegal armed groups that are present here in the border with Venezuela. Bear in mind that this is an area where Colombian guerrillas, narco pedra militaries and drug traffickers are present, have control of the area and kind of fight among them in order to control the area. So this is a very complicated place. And Colombian authorities think that the power vacuum after Maduro's capture might generate more violence. And third of all, it's the probability of an American, of a US intervention also in Colombia. Bear in mind that Mr. Trump thinks that the president of Colombia, Gustavo Petro, is also part of this drug trafficking scheme for which he ousted Maduro. So there is the probability, and even Trump has said it, that there's an intervention here, too. So there are many reasons why this is major in Colombia.

[Charlotte Gallagher]

And you mentioned there the power vacuum inside Venezuela. Do we know how that's going to be filled?

[BBC Mundo Correspondent Daniel Pardo]

That is going to be the biggest question because you have Del C. Rodriguez in power now or at least holding on for Maduro's post. But what we've seen for the past years, at least a decade, is that the central government in Venezuela doesn't have that much power over its land. So one of the questions is how are they going to be able to control most of the territory in which, as I was saying, there is presence of all sorts of illegal armed groups that are not necessarily linked to the government of Venezuela or to Maduro, but there are still there. Right. And that they control part of the area. You have colectivos, you have the army who is hugely important in Venezuela. It has increased its power all over this 20 decades of Chabismo. So it's very difficult to say who is in power in Maduro, who is, who really controls things in Venezuela and.

[Charlotte Gallagher]

How much support does Maduro still have in Venezuela?

[BBC Mundo Correspondent Daniel Pardo]

Very little. I mean, we know from all sorts of polls that have come from out in the past five years that he has less than 10% of support. So most Venezuelans are happy to celebrate right now.

[Charlotte Gallagher]

That was Daniel Pardo. So what about Venezuelans living outside their home country? As Daniel was saying, almost 8 million have fled since President Maduro took power. Many went to neighboring Latin American countries and some settled in the US as news of the raid broke, crowds started gathering outside a Venezuelan restaurant in Doral in Miami Dade county, where more than 40% of the population come from Venezuela. Elsewhere in Miami We've seen celebrations on the streets with people waving flags and singing songs. My family still Venezuela, and I've been looking forward to the stage for so many years.

[Venezuelan Expatriate in Miami]

Thank you, President Trump.

[BBC Correspondent Vanessa Silva]

I'm so, so happy because now Venezuela is free.

[Charlotte Gallagher]

I've been speaking to Luis Fajado, BBC Monitoring's Latin America analyst, who's in Miami.

[Venezuelan Expatriate in Miami]

It's fair to say that there's many people in Miami, particularly among the Venezuelan community, who are glad about the news that came from Venezuela a few hours ago. There's thousands of Venezuelans who had to flee the political and economic turmoil and made their homes in Miami. But they've always kept the hope of returning to their country or at least seeing more of a normal situation in their country, less turmoil. And for many of them, this is maybe a first step in that direction. I am in central Miami right now and not that far away from here. I was seeing several dozen Venezuelans applauding the action of the Trump administration. Some of them were wearing Trump hats and, and Trump T shirts. So clearly this is something that could increase Trump's popularity with the Hispanic community here in Miami.

[Charlotte Gallagher]

And what's the reaction in the region, countries that are close to Venezuela, what are they saying?

[Venezuelan Expatriate in Miami]

There's a lot of very strong reactions and mixed reactions, I would say, across Latin America. I think Latin America, more than many other regions in the world, has serious nationalistic concerns regarding their relation with the US they many times have seen or have considered the US as an interventionist power. And the fact that Donald Trump, in his press conference, when he was talking about the action in Venezuela, he cited the Monroe Doctrine, a 19th century doctrine by which the US claims it has the right to exert more influence in the Americas. Well, many people in Latin America, many school children in Latin America, were taught to be very concerned about this type of US Feeling about the Monroe Doctrine. But on the other hand, there's also many people in Latin America who were very concerned about what's happening in Venezuela, both because they did not like the ideology. Particularly conservative Latin Americans were very concerned about what was going on, that the same thing that happened in Venezuela could happen in their countries with these types of very left wing policies. And they also in many cases had experienced the massive migration of Venezuelans into their country. So again, very intense but very contradictory feelings across Latin America. Some countries, like for example, Mexico and Brazil, have expressed that they are objecting to the action. They say that it was a violation of Venezuelan sovereignty. While other countries like Argentina, have applauded very strongly. The president of Argentina, Javier Milei, a very strong supporter of Trump policies. He came out saying that he believed that this was a move in direction of more freedom for the region. So again, a very mixed picture in that.

[Charlotte Gallagher]

Luis Fajardo in Miami. The UN Security Council will hold an emergency session to discuss the crisis in Venezuela on Monday. Here in the UK the Prime Minister, Sakir Starmer has said Britain was not involved in the American military action. He said he wants to talk to President Trump to establish the facts. Russia, meanwhile, has called the US Operation deeply concerning our world. News correspondent Joe Inwood reports.

[BBC Announcer]

Donald Trump came to power promising America first. Many assume that would mean an age of isolationism. But no more could have a group.

[BBC Correspondent Tom Bateman]

Of people running it until such time as it can be put back on track, make a lot of money for the people and give people a great way of life and also reimbursement for people in our country that were forced out of Venezuela.

[BBC Announcer]

It may be no surprise that China, a long time ally, said U.S. actions threaten peace and security in Latin America, while Russia said ideological hostility has triumphed over business like pragmatism. There are fears that last night's unilateral actions undermine international law and make it harder to condemn aggression elsewhere, say Taiwan or Ukraine. Germany's Friedrich Merz said the principles of international law must apply. Keir Starmer knows he faces a balancing act between defending international law and maintaining a hard won relationship. I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that and as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law. But I think at this stage, fast moving situation. Let's establish the facts. It is hard to overstate the importance of today. It feels like the world at a turning point. The question is in which direction.

[Charlotte Gallagher]

Jo Inward reporting and that's all from us for now. But there will be a new edition of the Global News podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is [e-mail] you can also find us on X@BBC World Service. Use the hashtag globalnewspod. This edition was mixed by Nikki Bruff and the producer was Will Chalk. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Charlotte Gallagher. Until next time. Goodbye.

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