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Catholics around the world mourn death of Pope Francis
00:25:10
Vatican says Pope died from a stroke and heart failure
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- [00:00]
Chris Barrow
This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.
- [00:07]
Zing Singh
I'm Zing Singh. And I'm Simon Jack and together we host Good Bad Billionaire, the podcast exploring.
- [00:12]
Simon Jack
The lives of some of the world's richest people.
- [00:14]
Zing Singh
In the new season, we're setting our sights on some big names.
- [00:17]
Simon Jack
Yep, LeBron James and Martha Stewart to name just a few.
- [00:20]
Zing Singh
And as always, Simon and I are trying to decide whether we think they're good, bad or just another billionaire that's good.
- [00:26]
Simon Jack
Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service.
- [00:29]
Zing Singh
Listen now wherever you get your BBC Podcasts Foreign.
- [00:38]
Simon Jack
This is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Chris Barrow and in the early hours of Tuesday 22nd April, these are our main stories. Roman Catholics around the world are mourning the death of Pope Francis and celebrating the legacy of a man who spoke out tirelessly for the marginalized. The Vatican says the Pope died from a stroke and heart failure. His body will lie in state so the public can pay their respects before his funeral. Also in this podcast, 20 years back.
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Sher Mohammed
The snow season was starting at around October until March April. So there was a long season when we were receiving snow in these mountains. But now we have seen almost no snow until January.
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Simon Jack
Snowfall in the Hindu Kush Himalayan mountain Range reaches a 23 year low. Thousands of people gathered in St Peter's Square on Monday evening to mourn the death of Pope Francis at the age of 88. Vatican figures led prayers in front of worshippers from across the world, many of whom were in Rome to celebrate Easter.
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Ali McBall
Paternoster quiesi in celis tur nomen tum.
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Simon Jack
Millions of Catholics around the world will also be praying for the late Pope. He was the first person from Latin America and the global south to lead the Church, having been elected to the papacy in 2013 after the resignation of Pope Benedict. Francis recently spent five weeks in hospital being treated for double pneumonia population but made a number of unexpected public appearances since being discharged a month ago, including attending Easter Sunday events in the Vatican. Our religion editor Ali McBall sent this report from Rome.
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Cardinal Kevin Farrell
Dearest brothers and sisters, said Cardinal Kevin Farrell with deep sorrow, I must announce the death of our Holy Father Francis. At 7:35 this morning, the Bishop of Rome Francis return to the house of the Father. And with that, the end of what was a hugely consequential 12 year term of the 266th Pope was announced to the world. It could barely have come on a more auspicious day in the Catholic calendar. Easter Monday in the church's Jubilee year at midday the death knell tolled from St Peter's Basilica and rang through the square. Part of the shock being felt here is that in spite of the Pope's recent ill Health, just 24 hours earlier, he graced the very same square.
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Simon Jack
Cari fratelli, es sorelli, buona pasqua.
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Cardinal Kevin Farrell
First to wish people here a happy Easter, but then to do what we come to expect of him, making his way through the crowds to bless them. Despite advice last month to rest completely after his five week stay in hospital with pneumonia, the Pope quickly got back to the business of meetings and doing what he appeared to love, speaking to and surrounding himself with people. Last week, he met inmates at a Rome prison. And just yesterday, a brief encounter with the U.S. vice president, J.D. vance.
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Zing Singh
I know you've not been feeling great, but it's good to see you in better health.
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Chris Barrow
Pray for you every day.
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Zing Singh
God bless you and thank you for seeing me.
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Cardinal Kevin Farrell
Throughout his Papacy, Pope Francis had been focused on reaching out to those on the peripheries of the faith, globally, to the marginalized, and even to those outside Catholicism. The tributes pouring in from all parts of the world and from people of so many faith traditions, and none is a testimony to his success in doing that. He very definitely changed the direction of the Catholic Church, reorientating it away from the hierarchy and from Europe and towards the lives of people and their daily struggles wherever they happen to be. Services to celebrate his life are already taking place around the world.
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Simon Jack
Well, I heard more from Alim, who was watching events in St Peter's Square.
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Cardinal Kevin Farrell
It's extraordinary the shock that people are feeling. I mean, you look at what has happened over the last couple of months. In mid February, he was admitted to hospital. Things we hear were touch and go when it came to the pneumonia in both lungs that he had. And yet people thought he was on the mend. They had evidence of that, they thought, because over the last couple of weeks, even though he was told not to, he was carrying out his work, he was meeting people. He was in the very same square yesterday. And now from the Vatican notification of the cause of his death, they say that it was a stroke followed by a heart attack that caused his death. And the reason it's causing so much shock is because of this sense that he was on the mend. There was going to be a new phase of his papacy, but he would be able after time to continue some of his work. So although, as I say, we knew that for various reasons he had had health issues over recent years, it has still come as a shock to a lot of people who not only felt that it was sudden, but also felt that he was a man who had tried to do a lot of good things in terms of reorientating the Catholic Church, looking after the marginalized, and speaking out for them.
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Simon Jack
I suppose if you're going to look at this point backwards and at his legacy, he had a very different style to the previous pontiffs particularly, and I guess that is going to stand out. You know, perhaps that's why people really are feeling it today.
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Cardinal Kevin Farrell
Yes, I mean, some people want to characterize Pope Francis as being progressive or conservative. For me, it's more about the way they reached out. I mean, previous popes, it was felt, didn't mind a small group of faithful. I suppose as long as it was a pure church, they didn't want to change anything. They wanted to remain very traditional. This was a Pope who really wanted to reach out. I mean, his strength was being around people, trying to look at people's faith in their daily lives. A big factor for him was trying to move away this church from being very heavily clerical, being led by clerics and more into people's daily lives. But he did that through reaching across denominations, other faiths, people who were not of faith. And, you know, he spoke out about issues others could connect with. When it came to the environment, when it. When it came to being anti war, these were things that spoke out to other people. So, yes, a very definite change in direction in the Catholic Church, but one that had an impact beyond the church itself.
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Simon Jack
If there was criticism of his 12 years, do you think it's fair to say that critics would focus in on sexual abuse and perhaps him not tackling that topic quite as forcefully as some would have liked?
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Cardinal Kevin Farrell
I think a lot of the heaviest criticism was from people actually very close to him, to the Vatican. It was those who thought he was too progressive, he was moving away to the traditions of the faith when it came to dealing with sexual abuse. I mean, one thing he did do was recognize quite early on that he would be judged on how he dealt with that. There were huge scandals in the Catholic Church, and he did try to introduce some initiatives, like, for example, mandatory reporting, where he said anyone in any church who doesn't report sexual abuse when they know it's going on risks being kicked out of their position. And one thing he certainly did was meet a lot of victims and survivors and say sorry. Their entire trips focused primarily on saying sorry to victims of abuse. So he did focus on that. But there are those who Say, well, he did make mistakes. And although he said sorry for, he should have done a better job of making sure these rules that he introduced were implemented everywhere.
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Simon Jack
The same Ali McBool. Juan Carlos Cruz Chelliu was abused by a cleric in Chile when he was a boy. And he says one of the few people in the church willing to listen to him was Pope Francis.
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Juan Carlos Cruz Chelhu
It had been a long time advocating for people who had been sexually abused in the church and nobody had listened. And finally he sent investigators to the United States where I was living at the time. He realized that he had made a mistake. He was ill informed. So he invited me and two friends to come over and spend. I spent a week with him in Santa Marta and he and I talked long hours about the situation. And ever since he started changing the attitude towards sexual abuse in the church and it made a 180 degree change. Right. It was incredible to feel listened to, to feel that my problem and the problem of so many others was finally taking an important place. After that meeting we had, he put out a statement saying that he had made a mistake and that he apologized and he gave my name. And then he wanted all the bishops in Chile to come to Rome. And of course he had the report that had been done by Vatican officials. And then we were there and then they all came and he fired everybody. He asked for their resignation. So it was pretty incredible. It had never happened.
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Simon Jack
Juan Carlos Cruz Chelhu speaking about his meetings with Pope Francis. Still to come in this podcast.
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Zing Singh
See, this is what the media does.
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Chris Barrow
They take anonymous sources from disgruntled former employees and then they try to slash and burn people and ruin their reputations.
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Zing Singh
Not going to work with me.
- [10:42]
Simon Jack
The US Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is accused of discussing classified information in a second group chat.
- [10:57]
Zing Singh
I'm Zing Singh.
- [10:58]
Simon Jack
And I'm Simon Jack.
- [10:59]
Zing Singh
And together we host Good Bad Billionaire.
- [11:01]
Simon Jack
The podcast exploring the lives of some of the world's richest people.
- [11:04]
Zing Singh
In the new season, we're setting our sights on some big names.
- [11:07]
Simon Jack
Yep, LeBron James and Martha Stewart to name just a few.
- [11:10]
Zing Singh
And as always, Simon and I are trying to decide whether we think they're good bad or just another billionaire.
- [11:16]
Simon Jack
That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service.
- [11:19]
Zing Singh
Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
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Simon Jack
Let's hear more now about how the Pope is being remembered around the world, starting in Latin America. In Argentina, a special mass was held in Buenos Aires where Francis was once archbishop. It was led by the current archbishop, Jorge Garcia Cueva.
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Ali McBall
We are certain that Pope Francis now rests forever in the arms of God. We are certain that beyond the pain we feel in our hearts today, Francis will never leave our hearts nor the heart of the Argentine people, because love is stronger.
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Simon Jack
There was also a special Mass in Mexico City and our correspondent Will Grant spoke to me from there.
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Chris Barrow
There are hundreds of faithful mourners essentially making their way to the Basilica of Our lady of Guadalupe, the main cathedral in Mexico City, where they will be honouring Pope Francis, his life, and obviously remembering and reflecting on him. Of course, he had such an important impact in this region as the first Latin American pontiff. And I think so many people in Mexico, the faithful, and there are many nuns and local priests who are among the congregation here, are wanting to pay their respects, but also just so many ordinary Mexicans, the people whom Pope Francis really saw as the core of the Church. There are a lot of some of Latin America's very poorest turning up here, some almost barefoot but appearing in order to pay their respects.
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Simon Jack
And would you say that Argentina is a country that was proud to essentially have had a pope from there? Because he never actually visited while he was pope, so there was always that sort of political difficulty.
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Chris Barrow
There was a political element to Pope Francis being Argentine. As the Archbishop of Buenos Aires, he was accused of having too close a relationship to the military junta during the 1970s and 80s, and of course that he didn't want to become embroiled in the modern day polarization in Argentina. And I think it is suggested by some of his biographers that that may be why he didn't return to his homeland after he became Pope. But I think he was held in huge regard by his countrymen. One of the most important Argentines. To have the first Latin American pope be an Argentine, not a Brazilian, not a Mexican, but an Argentine was a source of great pride for the people of his nation.
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Simon Jack
It's interesting because the President of Argentina, Javier Milei, has declared seven days of mourning and he's put out a message saying that he did acknowledge their political differences, but also paying tribute, certainly.
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Chris Barrow
I mean, as a candidate, Javier Milei was very insulting to Pope Francis, even going so far as to sort of insult him directly to say he was promoting communism in the region and things of this nature that softened by the time he became the President of Argentina and the relationship had repaired somewhat. But I think that is also part of gives a sort little insight as to the kind of tone of the politics that I think Pope Francis wanted to avoid by a visit to Buenos Aires and being dragged back into the sort of national political debate will grant.
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Simon Jack
In Mexico City, the Christian community in the Middle east is mourning Pope Francis, especially Palestinian Christians, who feel that he had often spoken up for them. From Jerusalem, Sebastian Usher reports pictures of.
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Zing Singh
Pope Francis are being given pride of place in Bethlehem, where Palestinian Christians still vividly remember his visit more than a decade ago. One souvenir seller told the BBC. But the Pope always gave them hope. In his final Easter Sunday message, Pope Francis once again addressed the war in Gaza and the suffering of both Palestinians and Israelis. Palestinians also remember the calls he would make to a priest in Gaza City to check on the well being of Christians sheltering in the Catholic Church there. The Pope's visits to a number of other countries across the region helped bolster the morale of dwindling Christian communities in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, as well as trying to advance interfaith dialogue.
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Simon Jack
Africa has around a fifth of all Catholics and has the fastest growing Catholic population in the world. Outside the Holy Family Basilica in the Kenyan capital, Nairobi, this woman told the BBC why she thought the Pope was so important for Africa. Like Africa, for some people, they look at us as a black continent. I don't know whether it's because our color is black, but for him, he reached out to us and he brought changes. He reached out like political leaders would be oppressive to their people.
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Zing Singh
He would speak out.
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Simon Jack
He has spoken out. Our Africa correspondent, Mahony Jones, gave us more reaction.
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Sher Mohammed
For the millions of Catholics that follow the teachings of the Church, today is an incredibly sad day, an incredibly mournful day. Many of them are more conservative and didn't always agree with Pope Francis, particularly on his stance around LGBTQ issues. But they did respect the fact that he was always willing to highlight some of the challenges facing the continent. Just yesterday, during his Easter service, he called for peace for some of the continent's conflicts, including in Sudan, South Sudan and the Democratic Republic of Congo. And that is the country that he visited himself in 2020. And this is a thing that many Africans admired about the Pope, that he didn't just talk about the conflicts on the continent, but he was also willing to travel here to meet the Catholics that were here to try and draw attention to the world, to some of the issues that affect Africans, like wars, like migration. So he will be greatly missed. We've spoken to officials here who say that his legacy will live on forever. And earlier in the day, the African Union released the state, saying that he provided moral clarity at a time when the world is increasingly fractured.
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Simon Jack
Finally, a tribute from the Philippines, Asia's Biggest Roman Catholic nation. The Nobel Peace Prize winner, Maria Ressa, told the BBC that Francis was very much in touch with the modern world.
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Zing Singh
More than anyone, he understood what technology was doing to humanity. I've been to the Vatican four times since 2021, and each time I meet him, I marvel at both the moral leadership and the political leadership, because Pope Francis really held back the tide of conservative thought that threatened to bring us back to the Middle Ages. The world will change. Pope Francis lived in a sometimes horrendous world and he looked for our humanity. The last hashtag that we had with him is hashtag behuman. Behuman and human is empathetic. It is all inclusive and you look for the good.
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Simon Jack
The Nobel Peace Prize winner, Maria Ressa. In the next few days, the formal process of laying the Pope to rest will take place before cardinals arrive in the Vatican to decide on his successor. But before his death, Pope Francis had already chosen to change some of those traditions. Our correspondent Mark Easton told me more about what will happen in the coming days and the legacy Pope Francis leaves behind.
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Ali McBall
He has completely designed the funeral ceremony and it's very different from the funeral service that we saw for Pope Benedict, which was the classic grand affair. Huge, big coffin, huge amounts of people, lots of bling. This is going to be a really paired back thing. Yes. There'll be the St. Peter's Square moment, and then our expectation is that the coffin will go in a. In a sort of procession away from the Vatican. Unlike most of his predecessors, he's elected not to be buried under the basilica in the Vatican, but actually in another major basilica, Santa Maria Maggiore, in the Escalino neighborhood. And that's an interesting area for him to have chosen. It's a church in one of the less glamorous neighbourhoods of Rome. It's near the bus station and the railway station. It's also where a lot of immigrants arrive and set down their routes. It's a very diverse area and in that way, it's very much in keeping with his philosophy, which was that the Catholic Church should be a home for everyone from whatever background. And so I think his funeral will reflect that part of him. You could put it this way. He wanted the church to be less Roman and more Catholic, less European and more reflecting the diversity of the great Catholic Church.
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Simon Jack
And that's something that he certainly has made sure to do when it comes to choosing a successor, because he's had a large hand in changing the foundations of how that will be. They'll be selected.
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Ali McBall
Yeah. 135 cardinals will come together probably 15, 16 days from now to choose the next pope. And 80% of them pretty much will have been chosen by Pope Francis. He will have picked them out and said, those are the people. And it's interesting. We've got 18 cardinals from South America, 18 cardinals from Africa. That is going to really change potentially the way that the process happens. You know, conclaves. Well, anyone who's seen the movie knows, you know, these things can be a real surprise. I think this could be a major surprise. I mean, people are even saying, well, could we have a black pope? It's not impossible. There are some people who are suggesting that there are cardinals from Africa who would be qualified for that kind of role.
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Simon Jack
Aside from the mechanics of the selection process that's clearly on the way, what do you think he'll be most remembered for? What do you think his Legacy will be?
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Ali McBall
1, it will be on a church which reaches out to the marginalized, to the dispossessed. When he was in Rome, he would invite the homeless to come in. He wore shabby shoes. People used to say, you know, some people who came and saw him would go, well, he's one of us. What do you mean? Well, look at his shoes. And I was talking to Cardinal Nicholls this afternoon, the Archbishop of Westminster here in London, who was reflecting on the fact that he wanted the Church, the Catholic Church, to be a universal place, open to everyone. And I think to what extent the next pope, the next chapter in the Catholic story will be more conservative or more liberal? The extent to which it will be more global and less European. I do wonder whether that point of saying, this is a church that needs to reach out to those who are on the margins of our societies, that that will actually be something that whoever comes into office after him will find very difficult to reverse.
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Simon Jack
Mark Easton. Now to some of the day's other news. President Trump has denied that the US Defense Secretary discussed classified information in any group chat on the Signal messaging app. The New York Times has reported that Pete Hegseth created a group called Defence Team Huddle, in which he shared airstrikes on Yemen. Senior Democrats, including the Senate Minority Leader, Chuck Schumer, have called for Mr. Hegseth to be removed from his position. Our North America editor Sarah Smith reports.
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Zing Singh
Pete Hegseth included his wife, his brother, and his personal lawyer in a mobile phone group chat in which he shared sensitive details of a planned military attack. The operational details, including the flight schedules for the fighter jets targeting Houthi rebels in Yemen, were shared on the signal applied. This is the second time the defense secretary is found to have been sharing attack plans this way. A journalist was mistakenly included on a separate signal group and also saw advanced military plans. Asked about the latest controversy, Mr. Hegseth turned his ire on the press, but didn't actually deny the story.
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Chris Barrow
See, this is what the media does. They take anonymous sources from disgruntled former employees and then they try to slash and burn people and ruin their reputations.
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Zing Singh
Not going to work with me. Mr. Hegseth's wife, a former Fox News producer, does not work for the Department of Defence, but has already drawn criticism for accompanying her husband to sensitive meetings with foreign leaders. President Trump has said he has great confidence in his defence secretary, saying he's doing a great job and dismissing the signal story as fake news from disgruntled employees at the Pentagon.
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Simon Jack
Sarah Smith Scientists say that snowfall along the Hindu Kush Himalayan mountain range has reached a 23 year low, threatening nearly 2 billion people dependent on snowmelt for water. The report by the International center for Integrated Mountain Development calls for reduced global carbon emissions to address low snow levels in the long term. Our South Asia regional editor Alfie Habershan reports. The mountain range is known as the World's Water Tower, or the Earth's Third Pole, with more snow than anywhere outside the Arctic and Antarctica. But according to the research, the peaks that stretch 800 km from Afghanistan to.
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Chris Barrow
Myanmar have less snow than before, and.
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Simon Jack
The International center for Integrated Mountain Development.
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Chris Barrow
Says it's melting nearly 25% faster than normal.
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Simon Jack
Sher Mohammed led the study 20 years back.
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Sher Mohammed
The snow season was starting at around October November until March April. So there was a long season when we were receiving snow in these mountains, but now we have seen almost no snow until January.
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Simon Jack
The mountain range runs through some of the most populated countries in the world, like China, India and Pakistan. It's the source of 10 of Asia's largest rivers.
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Chris Barrow
And with this news, scientists say droughts.
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Simon Jack
Could follow in places already hard hit by heat waves.
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Sher Mohammed
It is significant for the people who are living in the mountains, for their households and also for their agriculture, but also for the people who are living downstream for irrigation because there are reservoirs on these river basins and if there is less water available, then there is less energy generation.
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Simon Jack
The report says early weather warning systems and stringent water use may help ease the problem, but that global emissions must be reduced to save the rich water.
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Chris Barrow
Supply that nearly a quarter of the world relies on.
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Simon Jack
Alfie Habersham with that report, and that's all from us for now. There will be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later on. If you'd like to comment, do send us an email. Our address is globalpodcastbc.co.uk. you can also find us on XBCWorldService. Just use the hashtag globalnewspod. This edition was mixed by Caroline Driscoll. The producer was Richard Hamilton. Our editor is Karen Martin. I'm Chris Barrow. And until next time, goodbye.
- [26:26]
Zing Singh
I'm Zing Singh.
- [26:27]
Simon Jack
And I'm Simon Jack.
- [26:28]
Zing Singh
And together we host Good Bad Billionaire.
- [26:30]
Simon Jack
The podcast exploring the lives of some of the world's richest people.
- [26:33]
Zing Singh
In the new season, we're setting our sights on some big names.
- [26:36]
Simon Jack
Yep, LeBron James and Martha Stewart, to name just a few.
- [26:39]
Zing Singh
And as always, Simon and I are trying to decide whether we think they're good, bad or just another billionaire.
- [26:45]
Simon Jack
That's Good Bad Billionaire from the BBC World Service.
- [26:48]
Zing Singh
Listen now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts.