Dismay in Ukraine as Russia and US reset ties

Summary

Global News Podcast Summary Episode: Dismay in Ukraine as Russia and US Reset Ties
Release Date: February 19, 2025
Host: Oliver Conway | BBC World Service

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1. US-Russia Diplomatic Reset and Its Implications for Ukraine

In this episode, Oliver Conway delves into the significant diplomatic shift as the United States and Russia engage in renewed talks amidst the ongoing Ukraine conflict. The meeting, held in Riyadh, marks the first tangible sign of normalization between the two nations since Vladimir Putin's failed invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.

Key Points:

• Meeting Overview: Top diplomats from the US, led by Marco Rubio, and Russia convened in Saudi Arabia, signaling a potential thaw in relations.
• Agreed Principles: The discussions centered around four main principles:
  1. Maintaining ongoing dialogues between the delegations.
  2. Restoring broader diplomatic ties.
  3. Enabling teams to work towards ending the war in Ukraine.
  4. Exploring historic economic and investment opportunities with Russia.
• Exclusions and Conditions: Notably, Kyiv was excluded from these talks, leading to significant concerns from Ukrainian leaders.

Notable Quotes:

• Marco Rubio (US Delegation): "We agreed on maintaining talks, restoring diplomatic ties, and exploring economic opportunities." [04:16]
• Sergey Lavrov (Russian Foreign Minister): "European peacekeeping forces are out of the question. This is unacceptable to us." [05:12]
• Oliver Conway: "As long as there are no clear actions or specific demands with deadlines, I can't really form an opinion on this." [04:09]

Ukrainian Concerns:

• Vladimir Zelenskyy's Stance: Ukrainian President Zelenskyy expressed frustration over Ukraine being sidelined in the negotiations. “We must not make any mistakes. Negotiations must be fair and include all stakeholders,” he asserted. [05:12]
• Public Sentiment in Kyiv: Citizens voiced uncertainty and fear about the unpredictable nature of Trump’s involvement and the potential for Russia to leverage this diplomatic reset to its advantage. [04:09 - 07:10]

Expert Opinions:

• Olga Ifshina (BBC Russian Service): Highlighted Russia's satisfaction with excluding Ukraine, indicating a strategic move to dominate the negotiation framework. [07:38]
• Irina Tanayuk (BBC Ukrainian Service): Emphasized that Russia seeks lifting sanctions and resuming business as usual, raising concerns about the West's response to such demands. [07:21]

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2. Humanitarian Crisis in Eastern Congo Amid M23 Rebel Advances

Orla Guerin reports from Eastern Congo, where the M23 rebels have aggressively taken control of major cities like Bukavu and Goma. The advance has led to widespread violence, including the execution of civilians and forced displacements.

Key Points:

• M23's Campaign: The rebels have been expanding their territory, now threatening to reach Kinshasa, the Congolese capital.
• Human Rights Violations: Reports from the UN highlight increased sexual violence and the forced recruitment of individuals by both M23 and the Congolese army.
• Local Impact: Hospitals like Endosho in Goma are overwhelmed with war-wounded civilians and soldiers, exacerbating the humanitarian crisis.

Notable Quotes:

• Miriam Fevier (International Red Cross, Goma): "Our medical supplies were looted at the very beginning of the escalation of the conflict in Goma." [14:05]
• Tantine (Relative of a Victim): "A bomb fell on the child, killing his parents. I lost six members of my family." [15:29]
• David (15-year-old Patient): "Honestly, I don't know what to think because Trump is very unpredictable." [04:09]

Personal Stories:

• Injuries and Losses: Children and young individuals, like David and Hashima, suffer severe injuries from stray bullets and explosions, symbolizing the indiscriminate brutality of the conflict.
• Displacement and Fear: Families are forced to leave their homes with little to no possessions, facing hunger and uncertainty about their future. Divine, a young mother, shares her plight: "We have nowhere to go. Hunger is killing us in the camp." [17:07]

Expert Insights:

• Healthcare Strain: Hospitals are operating beyond capacity, with doctors and nurses struggling to manage the influx of casualties amidst resource shortages.
• Rebel Justifications: The M23 claim to defend ethnic minority Tutsis, though their actions contradict their stated mission through acts of violence against civilians.

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3. Israeli Hostage Situation and the Bibas Family Tragedy

The podcast addresses the ongoing hostage negotiations between Israel and Hamas, focusing on the harrowing case of the Bibas family, whose fate has been central to Israeli public sentiment since the October 7, 2023, Hamas attack.

Key Points:

• Bibas Family: Ariel and Kaffir Bibas, along with their mother Shiri, were abducted during the Hamas raid. While their father, Yarden, was released, the status of the mother and two children remains uncertain.
• Hamas Negotiations: Hamas has agreed to release the bodies of Shiri and her children on Thursday, ahead of releasing six living hostages on Saturday.
• Israeli Government Response: The Israeli government maintains that it will not confirm deaths until forensic evidence is processed, leaving families and the public in limbo.

Notable Quotes:

• Ariel Bibas’ Relative: "We have not received any official confirmation, and our journey is not over." [19:51]
• Mark Lohan (Jerusalem Correspondent): "Their portraits symbolize youthful innocence taken on the 7th of October." [18:42]

Negotiation Dynamics:

• Phase One: Involves the release of 33 hostages, including the bodies of the Bibas family, aiming to build trust through gestures like the release of six living hostages.
• Phase Two: Intended to address more contentious issues, including a possible Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. However, political divisions within Israel, particularly from right-wing factions, threaten the progression to this phase.

Political Implications:

• Benjamin Netanyahu's Cabinet: Faces internal opposition regarding the concessions required for continuing negotiations, particularly concerning Gaza's status post-ceasefire.
• Regional Mediation: Efforts by regional mediators aim to sustain momentum towards a ceasefire, despite the fragile political climate.

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4. British Couple Arrested in Iran on Spy Charges

Craig and Lindsey Foreman, a British couple aged 52, were arrested in Iran during a motorcycle trip undertaken to promote shared humanity and cross-cultural understanding. Accused of espionage, their case has garnered international attention.

Key Points:

• Charges: The couple are accused of collecting information for Western intelligence under the guise of a tourist trip.
• Iranian Claims: Iranian judiciary spokesman Askar Jahangir stated that the Foremans were part of a coordinated intelligence operation targeting various locations across Iran.
• British Perspective: Contradicts Iranian allegations, highlighting the Foremans' positive social media presence and their stated mission to foster shared humanity through their journey.

Notable Quotes:

• Askar Jahangir (Iranian Judiciary): "They were arrested as part of a coordinated intelligence operation." [21:45]
• Lindsey Foreman (via Social Media): "We're facing our fears and defying recommendations to demonstrate shared humanity." [23:24]

Context and Reactions:

• Travel Advisory: The UK Foreign Office advises against all travel to Iran, explicitly warning British nationals of the risks, including arrest and detention.
• Foremans' Intentions: With a background in psychology and life coaching, the couple intended to conclude their trip in Australia, where Lindsey planned to present her research on quality of life.
• Family Statements: Their family and Lindsey’s social media indicate they were unaware of espionage activities, emphasizing their peaceful mission.

Expert Insights:

• Azadeh Mushiri (BBC, Pakistan): Highlights the stark contrast between Iranian state media’s portrayal and the Foremans’ documented intentions and actions prior to their arrest.

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5. Humanitarian Crisis Under M23 Control in Eastern Congo

Orla Guerin provides a poignant report from Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo, detailing the severe strain on medical facilities and the daily challenges faced by civilians amidst M23 rebel advances.

Key Points:

• Healthcare Overload: Endosho Hospital in Goma is operating beyond capacity, with multiple operating rooms running continuously to treat war-wounded.
• Types of Injuries: Predominantly gunshot wounds and injuries from explosive devices, including severe pediatric cases.
• Social Impact: Families are forced into displacement camps like Bulengo, facing extreme hardships such as lack of shelter and food.

Notable Quotes:

• Miriam Fevier (International Red Cross): "Our medical supplies were looted at the very beginning of the escalation of the conflict in Goma." [14:19]
• Azadeh Mushiri (BBC, Pakistan): "British nationals should avoid all travel to Iran due to significant risks." [23:33]

Personal Accounts:

• David (15) and Hashima (13): Young victims illustrate the brutal impact of the conflict on children and families, highlighting the ongoing trauma and loss experienced by the local population.
• Divine (Displaced Mother): Represents the fear and desperation of those forced to leave their homes, caught between the threat of violence and the uncertainty of their future.

Human Rights Concerns:

• Violence and Executions: Both M23 rebels and the Congolese army have been implicated in severe human rights abuses, including the execution of civilians and sexual violence.
• Forced Displacements: The M23's aggressive tactics are forcing thousands to flee their homes, leading to overcrowded and under-resourced refugee camps.

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6. Technological Breakthrough in Bioengineered Teeth

Shifting focus to scientific advancements, the podcast explores a groundbreaking development in dentistry. Researchers at Tufts University are on the cusp of creating bioengineered teeth using a combination of human and pig cells, potentially eliminating the need for dentures.

Key Points:

• Bioengineering Process: Utilizes tissue engineering techniques involving the mixing of dental epithelial cells and dental mesenchymal cells on scaffolds to grow functional tooth buds.
• Human and Pig Cells: Human dental mesenchymal cells are harvested from extracted teeth, while pig dental epithelial cells are used to overcome challenges in sourcing sufficient human cells.
• Future Implications: The goal is to implant these bioengineered tooth buds into the jaw, where they would grow and erupt naturally, offering a more natural and functional alternative to synthetic implants.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Pamela Yelick (Professor of Orthodontics): "We have been working to try to create bioengineered teeth that more closely resemble natural teeth as compared to currently used implants." [24:05]
• Dr. Pamela Yelick: "The bioengineered tooth bud would get implanted into the jaw, and then the idea is that ultimately it would grow and erupt into a functional tooth." [26:31]

Expert Insights:

• Tissue Engineering Advances: Similar techniques have successfully created other organs and tissues, such as liver and heart muscles, indicating a promising future for regenerative dentistry.
• Potential Benefits: Beyond aesthetics, bioengineered teeth could offer improved functionality, better integration with the jawbone, and a reduction in complications associated with synthetic implants.

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7. Tribute to Antonine Maillet and the UK's New National Poetry Centre

The episode concludes with a heartfelt tribute to the late Antonine Maillet, a celebrated Acadian novelist and playwright, and an exploration of the UK's announcement to establish its first National Poetry Centre in Leeds.

Key Points:

• Antonine Maillet’s Legacy: Maillet, who passed away at 95, was renowned for her contributions to Acadian literature, transforming the Acadian language from oral traditions to written form. Her novel Pélagie-la-Charette earned her the prestigious Prix Goncourt.
• National Poetry Centre Initiative: Spearheaded by Poet Laureate Simon Armitage, the center aims to make poetry more accessible and foster a communal space for linguistic and cultural expression.

Notable Quotes:

• Simon Armitage (UK Poet Laureate): "Poetry is the most accessible and democratic of art forms... language is a free gift." [28:23]
• Simon Armitage: "We're trying to encourage people to have a better relationship with language and to play with language, because in doing that, you get closer to yourself and to understanding the world." [30:18]

Expert Opinions:

• Simon Armitage: Emphasizes the role of the National Poetry Centre in combating societal isolation and fostering face-to-face communication, particularly among younger generations.
• Cultural Impact: The center is envisioned as a hub for linguistic diversity, reflecting the multiplicity of languages and cultural backgrounds within Britain, and promoting poetry as a means of personal and communal connection.

Antonine Maillet’s Impact:

• Cultural Significance: Maillet’s work is celebrated for its deep cultural resonance within the Acadian community and its broader influence on Canadian literature.
• National Recognition: Her passing elicited tributes from high-profile figures like French President Emmanuel Macron and Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, underscoring her international literary stature.

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8. Conclusion

This episode of the Global News Podcast provided a comprehensive overview of pressing international issues, from the delicate diplomatic dance between the US and Russia and its reverberations for Ukraine, to the harrowing humanitarian crises in Eastern Congo and Gaza. Additionally, it highlighted significant cultural and scientific advancements, celebrating literary legacies and pioneering medical research. Through detailed reporting and expert insights, the podcast offered listeners a multifaceted understanding of the world's current landscape.

Production Credits:

• Mixed by: Derek Clark
• Produced by: Marion Strawn
• Edited by: Karen Martin

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Transcript

[Katya Adler]

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk. Hello, I'm Katya Adler, host of the Global Story podcast from the BBC. Each weekday we break down one big news story with fresh perspectives from journalists around the world. From artificial intelligence to divisive politics tearing our societies apart from the movements of money and markets to the human stories that touch our lives, we bring you in depth insights from across the BBC and beyond. Listen to the Global Story wherever you get your BBC podcasts. You're listening to the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. Hello, I'm Oliver Conway. This edition is published in the early hours of Wednesday 19th February. We'll have more reaction to the dramatic reset in relations between the US and Russia as they agree to press ahead with negotiations on the war in Ukraine despite excluding Kyiv from their talks. Israelis learn the fate of the youngest hostages in Gaza. And a British couple arrested in Iran last month have been charged with spying. Also in the podcast, a bomb fell on the child, killing his parents. It was the M23 who dropped the bomb and I lost six members of my family. We have a special report from eastern Congo. And forget dentures. Could we soon grow replacement teeth? But first, according to leaked intelligence from February 2022, Vladimir Putin believed his invasion forces could overthrow the Ukrainian government within three days. In the end, his troops were stopped at the gates of Kyiv. But three years on, with hundreds of thousands dead on both sides, the Russian leader now appears to have the upper hand after seemingly winning over Donald Trump. The first tangible sign of the new reality came in Saudi Arabia on Tuesday, as the top Russian and American diplomats met in Riyadh. Our correspondent Tom Bateman was there. Here was the us, the biggest single backer and arms supplier of Ukraine, sitting down with its friend's enemy. Afterwards, the US delegation led by Mr. Rubio, described the discussions as upbeat. The Americans said they agreed four principles with the Russians, maintaining talks between the delegations, restoring broader diplomatic ties, enabling teams to work on a path to end the war in Ukraine, and then what the US called historic economic and investment opportunities with Russia. But what of any concessions being demanded of Moscow? Mr. Rubio wouldn't set any out to reporters after the meeting, saying only that it would be a matter for future talks. Mr. Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, made clear European peacekeeping forces were out of the question. We explained today that the appearance of armed forces from the same NATO countries, but under a different flag, under the flag of the European Union, or under national flags doesn't change change anything in this regard. Of course, this is unacceptable to us. Pressed on why the US Wasn't laying down conditions for Moscow in order to agree a durable peace, Mr. Rubio said the two sides would only agree to ending the war on terms they were each happy with. But today's events have so far done little to allay the biggest fears in Ukraine of being forced to accept an end to the war on Russia's terms, with the peace being carved up between Moscow and Washington. Tom Bateman in Riyadh well, those Ukrainian fears of a sellout were articulated by the nation's leader, Vladimir Zelensky, who was on a visit to Turkey, which acted as a mediator early in the war. He again insisted his country had to be involved in any peace talks. We'll hear more on the official Ukrainian view in a moment. But first to people on the streets of Kyiv, Honestly, I don't know what to think because Trump is very unpredictable.

[Oliver Conway]

Essentially. As long as there are no clear actions or specific demands with deadlines, I can't really form an opinion on this.

[Katya Adler]

I think that most likely certain territories.

[Oliver Conway]

Will have to be conceded, at least for some time to achieve peace.

[Katya Adler]

I think the priority in our country right now is to save as many lives as.

[Oliver Conway]

But I know that even if there.

[Katya Adler]

Is a ceasefire now, Russia will try.

[Oliver Conway]

To attack our country again, and we don't know what the consequences of that will be in the future.

[Katya Adler]

The view from the Ukrainian capital so what, if anything, can President Zelenskyy do to influence any settlement of the war? Here's our Ukraine correspondent, James Waterhouse, as.

[James Waterhouse]

Two major powers discuss the future of his country. Elsewhere in Turkey, a visibly irritated President Zelensky highlighted what he saw as the flaws with his country's exclusion from this first stage of talks.

[Katya Adler]

In order for the war to end with a reliable and lasting peace, we must not make any mistakes. This is possible only when the negotiations are fair and Ukraine, America and the whole of Europe are represented at the negotiating table. Guarantees are developed with the participation of all who are really capable of giving them.

[James Waterhouse]

Ukraine's leader said he would never legally recognize the territory Russia had seized and called for, in the likely absence of NATO membership, a strong Ukrainian military, possibly backed by foreign troops, in a post ceasefire existence. For Dimko, a soldier we caught up with in Kyiv, America's approach has been damaging to morale.

[Katya Adler]

Absolutely worried. We want to believe that President Donald Trump is also a wise man who takes his politics seriously and his deals seriously. Whatever would be decided in President President Trump's head and whether he's going to be with Ukraine or not is going to make an enormous impact on Ukraine.

[James Waterhouse]

Mr. Zelensky was scheduled to travel to Saudi Arabia after visiting his Turkish counterpart, President Erdogan. But he said he had now postponed the trip so not to add legitimacy to the early negotiations to which he was not invited.

[Katya Adler]

James Waterhouse in the Ukrainian capital. Well, just before we came into the studio, President Trump said he would probably meet Vladimir Putin before the end of the month in a wide ranging news conference at Mar a Lago. He also said he was disappointed by complaints, presumably from Ukraine and Europe, of being frozen out of the talks. I think I have the power to end this war and I think it's going very well. But today I heard, oh well, we weren't invited. Well, you've been there for three years, you should have ended it. Three years, you should have never started it. You could have made a deal. I could have made a deal for Ukraine that would have given him almost all of the land, everything, almost all of the land. And no people would have been killed and no city would have been demolished.

[Oliver Conway]

And not one dome would have been knocked down.

[Katya Adler]

So what should we make of the US Russia meeting in Saudi Arabia? The BBC's Luke Jones spoke to Olga Ifshina from the BBC Russian Service and Irina Tanayuk of BBC Ukrainian For Ukraine.

[Oliver Conway]

Is a huge blow, huge diplomatic blow, because Ukraine feels left out and seeing not just normalization between the US and Russia, but what is perceived as normalization on steroids, can't but hurt Ukrainian feelings.

[Katya Adler]

Did we get any greater clarity today about at what point Ukraine might be involved in these future talks and how that might work?

[Oliver Conway]

The best pointer was From Marco Rubio's U.S. state Secretary's Pressa when he said that this is not even pre negotiations to discuss any potential peace deal. It's just the starting point to launch some sort of a dialogue between the sides and both Europe, the EU as potential guarantor of any peace deal, and Ukraine as a party to this war, which interestingly Marco Rubio kept calling conflict. So there was a slight shift in vocabulary, if you want. So I think that would not be interpreted or looked at kindly by Ukrainian side either, because they see some signs of American position shifting towards softening of sanctions. And for that the USA needs Europe because interestingly also in Lavrov's lingo, Europe is the enemy, Europe is anti Russian force, even though it's European war. And it will be up to Europe to sort it out eventually, wouldn't it?

[Katya Adler]

Olga? One of the other things at least posed in some of the questioning today was about the possibility of Putin and Zelensky talking. I think I'm right in saying that Putin's spokesperson made reference to this in their response to the talks. How likely do you think that is anytime soon? Well, I guess, I guess that is possible. Of course, I think Putin is very pleased that currently negotiations are going directly between us and Russia and Ukraine is not at the table. Putin is definitely very happy with that. And it seems at least they try to show that they feel very empowered, very confident. But the truth is that there are still issues they don't like to talk about. For example, Ukraine still controls a part of the Russian territory which they gained after incursion into Kursk region of Russia. So we don't really know, you know, how far those negotiations went, what Russia has to give in, what they have to trade in in order to achieve that, to be fair, in order to conduct any, any peace deal, they need to meet directly. Right. So I guess that's possible. But once again, the, the crucial thing is what the details of this meeting and this agreement will be. What about the economic side of things? Because there was a lot of discussion on that front, wasn't there? I mean, the head of the Russian Direct Investment Fund was there, not involved in the talks, but was definitely floating around it quite closely. Yes, definitely Russia is interested in lifting some of the sanctions in start of business as usual. Definitely they're interested in that. What that means for the democratic world is a very different question, which I guess the west needs to find an answer for. And Irina, just finally with you, what is next for Zelenskyy on this front? Does he need to corral his European strategic partners a bit more? Where does he go next?

[Oliver Conway]

He, he's back in Kiev where tomorrow he'll have the first face to face meeting with Keith Kellogg, the new US Representative on Ukraine. And hopefully for him, for Ukraine, he'll bring the message across. And also he's trying to corral Europe at large in Turkey. He sort of raised the possibility of Ankara, official Ankara in Turkey and Erdogan being involved because Erdogan really liked hearing that, playing the regional leader that he is, and also United Kingdom. He said Europe at large. Europe as such is not just European Union, it's also the United Kingdom, it's also Turkey. So he's broadening this support base for Ukraine, hoping that when the US is withdrawing from the process of supporting Ukraine in the future, he'll have someone to fall back on.

[Katya Adler]

Arina Tanayuk of the BBC Ukrainian Service and We also heard from Olg Evshina of BBC Russia. And still to come on the Global.

[Simon Armitage]

News podcast, if you're feeling upset or want to express yourself, it's quite complicated and expensive to stage an opera or throw a pot, but you do have access to poetry.

[Katya Adler]

The UK announces what's described as a long overdue national Poetry Center. Hello, I'm Katya Adler, host of the Global Story podcast from the BBC. Each weekday we break down one big news story with fresh perspectives from journalists around the world. From artificial intelligence to divisive politics tearing our societies apart from the movements of money and markets to the human stories that touch our lives, we bring you in depth insights from across the BBC and beyond. Listen to the Global Story wherever you get your BBC podcasts on Friday. Last week, the Rwandan backed M23 rebels began marching into Bukavu in the Democratic Republic of Congo. They were largely unopposed, but as they advanced, they executed children. According to the UN Human Rights Office, a spokesperson warned of a worsening security situation in eastern Congo with reports of sexual violence and forced recruitment. Bukavu was the second major city to fall to the rebels after Goma, and they say they'll take their fight all the way to the Congolese capital Kinshasa, more than a thousand kilometers away. Orla Garin sent this report from Eastern Congo.

[Orla Guerin]

I'm standing in a recovery room in Endosho Hospital in Goma. There are three patients here on trolleys, all young men. And here in this hospital alone, there are four operating rooms in use all day, sometimes at night, to try to keep up with the volume of war wounded civilians and soldiers who have been brought in.

[Katya Adler]

Okay, so my name is Miriam Fevier. I'm based in Goma for the International Red Cross.

[Orla Guerin]

We are here now at the Endosho Hospital, which is one of the hospitals you support. You have more than 300 patients. You have beds for 146. How much pressure have the doctors and the nurses been under?

[Katya Adler]

I think it's been a terrible situation for the doctors. They slept in the OTs. Our medical supplies were looted at the very beginning of the escalation of the conflict in Goma.

[Orla Guerin]

Tell me about the kind of injuries you've been receiving. Is it mostly gunshots?

[Katya Adler]

It was a lot of gunshots. It was also an increasing number of explosive devices. And you have also pediatric war surgery because a lot of children were also wounded.

[Orla Guerin]

We meet some of them in a tent in the hospital grounds. David, who's 15, cries in pain. He was hit in the face by a Stray bullet in the next bed, 13 year old Hashima winces as he tries to shift his weight. One of his legs is now a bandaged stump. His relative Tantine tells us what happened.

[Katya Adler]

A bomb fell on the child, killing his parents.

[Orla Guerin]

Was there fighting in the area? Were there clashes between different groups?

[Katya Adler]

It was a Sunday. It was the M23 who dropped the bomb. There was fighting between them and the army. They dropped the bomb and I lost six members of my family.

[Orla Guerin]

While Tantine mourns, Some welcome the M23 to Bukavu. It's the second major city they have captured recently. They prefer liberated. M23 say they are defending ethnic minority Tutsis. Human rights groups accuse the rebels and their enemies, the Congolese army, of killing and raping civilians. I'm at the edge of Goma. There are green hills all around in the distance and stretching out as far as the eye can see, there are rows and rows of quite tents, some very scrappy, falling apart. I'm in a camp called Bulengo, one of several camps here for people who have been displaced by fighting. Crowds gather round us to say they are being displaced again by an ultimatum from M23. Among them a young mother called Divine, who has a babe in arms.

[Katya Adler]

We were here when they came and.

[Oliver Conway]

Told us, you have three days to leave.

[James Waterhouse]

We were scared because we have nowhere to go.

[Katya Adler]

The houses have been destroyed, there are none left.

[Oliver Conway]

Hunger is killing us in the camp.

[Azadeh Mushiri]

But we don't see how we can go home to nothing.

[Orla Guerin]

M23 say they are encouraging voluntary returns, but that's not how it feels to many here. We saw an extended family setting off with what little they had tied to their backs, cooking pots, rolled up, bedding and a wooden stool. The family are on their way now. They've told us it will be a two day journey by foot around the camp. We've seen others who are packing up, getting ready to go. Many say they're frightened to leave, but they're also scared to stay.

[Katya Adler]

Ola Guerin, reporting from eastern Congo. The fate of the Bibas family has tormented the Israeli public since the hamas attack of October 7, 2023. A picture of the two young red headed boys, Ariel and Kaffir, being abducted along with their distraught mother Shiri, became a symbol of the brutality of that day. The father, Yarden Bibas, was released earlier this month, but Hamas said his wife and two children were killed by Israeli bombing in late 2023. Their deaths were never confirmed and many in Israel refused to believe it. Now Hamas has said Their bodies will be handed over on Thursday ahead of the release of six living hostages on Saturday. Mark Lohan in Jerusalem told me about the likely reaction in Israel.

[James Waterhouse]

I think it's going to be a very painful moment, Oli, even though really I think a lot of people who expected it to happen, because Hamas has long alleged that the Bibas family, or at least Shiri Bibas and her two sons, who were the two youngest hostages taken on 7 October, were killed in an Israeli bombardment. Israel has never confirmed that. But when the hostages started being released, the living hostages on 19 January, if those two boys had been alive, everybody expected them to be in the early release groups and they haven't appeared. So I think that this is kind of the inevitable, and yet it will be extremely painful because as you say, they have become very much the kind of icons of the cruelty of the 7th of October across Israel. You see their portraits kind of symbolizing this youthful innocence which was taken on the 7th of October. I mean, the Bibas family have released a statement saying, we are in turmoil. We've not received any official confirmation, and until we do, our journey is not over. That is a reference to the fact that Israel says it will not confirm the identity of the four dead hostages until forensic tests have been carried out here.

[Katya Adler]

Now, this is part of a series of handovers. Living hostages on Saturday, more dead bodies next week. Is the deal accelerating? It seems to be faster than had been planned?

[James Waterhouse]

It seems to be, yes, because initially there were three living hostages planned for release on Saturday and that's been doubled. And we are told that that is intended by Hamas as a gesture of good faith in the negotiations which are restarting in Cairo to move to the second phase of the ceasefire. Remember, just last week it appeared that the whole ceasefire was hanging by a thread when Hamas threatened to suspend all the hostage, the remaining releases of the hostages. But it's been brought back on track by the regional mediators with the release of these four bodies on Thursday, then the six living hostages on Saturday, and then four more bodies next week. That completes the 33 hostages who are due to be released in the first phase. So then the second phase could in theory begin. But then the second phase of the ceasefire is going to contain the really, really tricky topic of an Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. And within Benjamin Netanyahu's cabinet on the far right particularly, there's a lot of opposition to that from ministers and indeed ex minister who want Israel to resume the war in Gaza once the hostages are released. So There is no guarantee and it's absolutely not a given that they will be able to move to phase two. But the momentum is swinging back towards negotiations of some sort at least.

[Katya Adler]

Mark Lohan in Jerusalem. A British couple arrested in Iran last month during a round the world motorcycle trip have been charged with spying offences. Craig and Lindsey Foreman, who are both 52, are accused of collecting information in different locations across Iran. The BBC's Azadeh Mushiri is in neighboring Pakistan. She spoke to Tim Franks.

[Azadeh Mushiri]

A lot of the information that we've been getting has been coming from Iranian state media. This latest information is from a judiciary run news agency and even quoted a judiciary spokesman, Askar Jahangir, saying the couple had been under surveillance by intelligence agencies in the province and were, in their words, arrested as part of a coordinated intelligence intelligence operation. They're arguing that the couple came under the guise, the pretense of a tourist trip, but actually were collecting information for Western intelligence officials. Now, this is completely different to what we've heard from Lindsay and Craig Foreman's family and also from Lindsay Foreman's own social media accounts. Because what's really notable about this case is that since they were embarking on this trip across the world on their motorbikes, they'd already posted so many videos and pictures of their time in various countries, including Armenia, the country they were in before they got into Iran. And throughout, you see a very positive outlook, especially in Iran. Lindsey Foreman talks about how she's there having an amazing time, enjoying the food, talking about shared humanity. And a lot of this is because she's a life coach. She has a doctorate in psychology. And the purpose of this trip was to end up in Australia as their final stop, where Lindsay would present her research on what it means to live a good life. And in fact, they'd only planned on staying in Iran for five days and instead have been detained since early January.

[James Waterhouse]

And just to be clear, I mean, although you said it was a brief visit and all the PR around this.

[Katya Adler]

Was, look, we're showing the benefits of a shared humanity. I mean, there is a pretty clear British government travel advisory about Iran, isn't there?

[Azadeh Mushiri]

There is. The Foreign Office currently advises British nationals to avoid all travel to Iran. It adds that British and British Iranian dual nationals are at significant risk of arrest, questioning or detention. It even says that having a British passport or connections to the UK can be reason enough for the Iranian authorities to detain you. But they actually knew about these risks. It's very clear because Lindsay Foreman posted about it on Social Media prior to to making the trip. They said they're facing their fears and defying recommendations from friends, family, and the FCDO travel advice. She acknowledged that traveling to Iran and to Pakistan, which was her next stop, was risky and in her words, slightly SC but that they hoped the reward would be worth it and that they'd hired a tour guide and were taking every precaution. They said that they believed they'd be able to really show that. That the world had some form of shared humanity and that they were doing this with the best of intentions.

[Katya Adler]

The BBC's Azadeh Mashiri in Islamabad. Technological advances have seen things that were once inconceivable being grown in labs, from red blood cells to human skin, chocolate to diamonds. Now teeth could join that list. Researchers at Tufts University in the U. S. Boston say false teeth or dentures could become a thing of the past as they're on the verge of a breakthrough in creating new teeth from a mix of human and pig cells. The BBC's Evan Davis got the details from Dr. Pamela Yelick, professor of orthodontics.

[Oliver Conway]

We have been working to try to create bioengineered teeth that more closely resemble natural teeth as compared to currently used implants, which are made of synthetic materials. So based on techniques that have been used for many decades now in tissue engineering and regenerative medicine, we mix cells with scaffolds, which are materials that the cells can sit onto and grow and reorganize themselves into various organs. So this has been successfully used to create organs, organ tissues, including liver and heart muscle and skeletal muscle bone. And we're using these same techniques to regenerate teeth.

[Katya Adler]

It's not necessarily all human cells. The pig is the other part of this.

[Oliver Conway]

That's correct. There are two types of cells which contribute to teeth, and they are dental epithelial cells and dental mesenchymal cells. So we get the human dental mesenchymal cells from extracted teeth, human teeth, wisdom teeth, for example, that need to be extracted. But the dental epithelial component is harder to obtain. And so for these studies to show proof of principle, we use pig dental epithelial cells.

[Katya Adler]

Wow.

[Oliver Conway]

So we're hoping that the bioengineered teeth would actually fare better than a titanium implant the tooth. This bioengineered tooth bud would get implanted into the jaw, and then the idea is that ultimately it would grow and erupt into a functional tooth.

[Katya Adler]

Pamela Yellick, professor of orthodontics, the Canadian novelist and playwright Antonine Maillet has died in Montreal at the age of 95, Lise Doucet looks back at her life. Antonine Maillet is the most renowned novelist and playwright from eastern Canada and its French speaking community, known as the Acadians. Her work celebrates Acadian language, heritage and pride. She once said, if I have one claim to fame, it's that I took the Acadian language from its oral tradition to the written word. In 1979, she became the first Canadian to receive the prestigious French literary award, the Prig Encour for her novel Pelagi la Charette, the story of a feisty widow's epic journey home to eastern Canada after the British expulsion of the Acadians in 1755. The French President Emmanuel Macron paid tribute to Ms. Maillet's immense work and rebellious strength, which uplifted the soul and said she was mourned by French speaking communities the world over. Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Ms. Maillet had left an indelible mark on Canada's cultural landscape. Please, Doucet, in the country that brought you Chaucer, Shakespeare, Keats and Wordsworth, it might surprise you there is no national centre to celebrate poetry, but that is about to change. The man behind the project, the UK's poet laureate Simon Armitage, says poetry is the most accessible and democratic of art forms. He told the BBC's Tim Franks, why?

[Simon Armitage]

If you're feeling upset about something or want to express yourself, it's quite complicated and expensive to stage an opera or throw a pot. But you do have access to poetry because for most people, language is a free gift. It's something that they've learned before they even know it. And if you have that and something to write with and on, you're away.

[James Waterhouse]

And of course, these days there are more and more opportunities for us to share that, for example, through social media. In what way do you then think that a national poetry centre, how can that be a sort of crucible for poetry?

[Simon Armitage]

One of the things that's happened over the last few years is that we've become more and more isolated and solipsistic and there's an invitation in a centre like this together for younger generations. It's absolutely imperative that we invest in places where people can communicate face to face and, you know, learn how to disagree and be accepting of each other's opinions.

[Katya Adler]

Why Leeds?

[Simon Armitage]

This is my part of the world. I'm a professor of poetry at Leeds University and there's been a great appetite and energy for this idea shown from Leeds right from the beginning. There's also something of a drive in Leeds towards making it a city of language and literacy. Beyond that, it's roughly in the middle of the country. It's very well connected. We've already got a huge number of national institutions in our capital, but I. I think of late there's been a sort of philosophical move towards decentralisation which reflects really what's happened in poetry as well. And I think it's just more reflective of a plurality within the art form.

[James Waterhouse]

And celebrating that plurality and celebrating the.

[Katya Adler]

Colours of the national language. Is there going to be space for languages? Because obviously Britain has a multiplicity.

[Simon Armitage]

Yeah, exactly. And the area of Leeds that we're talking about is typically diverse. So, yes, when we talk about Britain and we talk about languages, we're talking about that great richness which poetry has really benefited from in our country, and which a lot of particularly younger people are finding a means of expression to talk about their own lives and what the world means to them through their own language. There's no better way, really, of being in touch with your identity than through your grammar and through your syntax. At some level, I can see that a national poetry centre might seem to some people an esoteric idea, but really what we're doing here is we're trying to encourage people to have a better relationship with language and to play with language, because in doing that, you get closer to yourself and you get closer to understanding the world.

[Katya Adler]

The UK Poet Laureate, Simon Armitage. And that is all from us for now, but the Global News Podcast will be back very soon. This edition was mixed by Derek Clark and produced by Marion Strawn. Our editors, Karen Martin. I'm Oliver Conway. Until next time. Goodbye. Hello, I'm Katya Adler, host of the Global Story Podcast from the BBC. Each weekday we break down one big news story with fresh perspectives from journalists around the world. From artificial intelligence to divisive politics, tearing our societies apart from the movements of money and markets to the human stories that touch our lives, we bring you in depth insights from across the BBC and beyond. Listen to the Global Story wherever you get your BBC podcasts.