Donald Trump threatens to sue BBC

Summary

Global News Podcast – BBC World Service

Episode Date: November 10, 2025
Main Theme:
Donald Trump Threatens to Sue the BBC: The Fallout from a Documentary, Leadership Shakeup at the BBC, and the Latest Global Affairs

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Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the political and media turmoil sparked by Donald Trump’s threat to sue the BBC over their recent documentary, which misrepresented his remarks regarding the January 6, 2021, Capitol riots. The resulting crisis led to high-profile resignations within the BBC and cast renewed scrutiny on their editorial integrity. Alongside this headline story, the episode provides in-depth coverage of the visit of Syria’s president to Washington, updates on the French ex-president Sarkozy’s legal troubles, the urgency of climate action at COP30 in Brazil, struggles with green energy infrastructure in the Netherlands, and the fallout from South Korea’s constitutional crisis. Included is also a rare interview with a notorious cybercriminal, offering insight into the world of digital crime.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump Threatens Legal Action Against the BBC (00:27–08:09)

The Controversy:

• The BBC aired a documentary prior to the 2024 U.S. election which edited segments of a Trump speech from January 6, 2021, making it appear that he had directly incited Capitol rioters.
• A leaked internal memo criticized BBC management for failing to uphold editorial standards, which led to the resignation of Tim Davy (Director General) and Deborah Turnis (Head of News).

Official BBC Apology:

• BBC chairman Samir Shah publicly apologized for the editing error:
  • Quote: “The apologizing is for the way the team edited President Trump's speech to his supporters on January 6th.” (03:41, Samir Shah)
  • “That was the wrong call. It was a mistake.” (03:52, Nick Miles and Samir Shah)
• Shah confirmed receipt of communications from Trump’s team and “preparing for all outcomes”, acknowledging Trump’s litigious nature. (04:12, Samir Shah)

Political & Editorial Fallout:

• Trump accuses BBC journalists of corruption. The BBC sits at the center of a debate on impartiality.
• Internal reforms are underway: “The letter talks about new leadership… new editorial guidelines, people were disciplined, and corrections were made.” (05:09, Rob Watson)
• UK political reactions are split along ideological lines:
  • Right: Accuses BBC of systemic liberal bias.
  • Left: Sees resignations as politically motivated.
  • Recognized: BBC remains a “national and international asset”. (05:42–06:36, Rob Watson)
• The crisis comes at a crucial time with the BBC’s Royal Charter review approaching, threatening the broadcaster’s future stability and independence. (06:50–08:09, Rob Watson)

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2. Historic Visit: Syria’s President in Washington (08:09–12:51)

Background:

• Syrian President Ahmed Al Shara visits the White House—the first such visit since Syrian independence in 1946, symbolizing a dramatic realignment of Middle Eastern geopolitics. (08:09, Tom Bateman)
• US hopes to pull Syria from the Russian/Iranian sphere into a Western alliance.

Minority Groups’ Fears:

• Ola Guerin reports from Homs, chronicling attacks on minority groups (Christians and Alawites) fearing for their safety in post-Assad Syria.
  • Quote: “When the regime fell, we all came back to Syria, but there is no security. My dearest friends are dead.” (10:11–10:21, anonymous source via Jake Kwon)
  • Alawite families are targets for revenge killings, with victims’ families expressing despair and lack of police action. (11:54–12:25)

Community Perspective:

• “Being an Alawite in the new Syria can be a death sentence… If we are all going to get killed, it’s better we flee.” (12:51, Adnan Ezzedine, via Nick Miles)

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3. Nicolas Sarkozy Granted Early Release (13:50–16:19)

Legal Twist:

• Former French president Nicolas Sarkozy is released early from jail, just weeks into a five-year sentence for conspiring to obtain campaign funds from Qaddafi.
  • Quote: “It’s a twist, but it’s a totally predictable twist…” (13:50, Hugh Schofield)
• Lawyers argue his innocence; appeal scheduled for spring 2026. Prison overcrowding and his age are cited as factors for release.
  • “French prisons are overcrowded. They do what they can to get people out of jail…” (15:57, Hugh Schofield)

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4. COP30: Climate Talks in Brazil & Rising Frustration (18:06–22:54)

Diplomacy Under Pressure:

• Host Brazil claims developed nations are losing momentum in the fight against climate change.
• UK's special climate envoy, Rachel Kite, acknowledges public skepticism:
  • Quote: “There shouldn’t be a lack of faith. There should be some righteous indignation that political leaders are not driving change as fast as they need to.” (19:03, Rachel Kite)
  • “We’re not on track… these are complex conversations.” (20:06–20:09, Rachel Kite)

Net Zero Debate:

• Kite rebuts arguments that “net zero” efforts are wastefully diverting resources, favoring a holistic approach:
  • “We have to be intelligent enough to hold two ideas in our minds at the same time.” (21:27, Rachel Kite)
  • She argues for both emissions reductions and resilience investment:

US Withdrawal:

• Concerns about America disengaging noted, but Kite stresses global progress continues: “195 countries who signed Paris minus one is not zero. It’s 194. And everybody else is getting on with it.” (21:02, Rachel Kite)

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5. The Netherlands: Green Energy Gridlock (22:54–27:05)

Infrastructure Tensions:

• Dutch grid struggles to cope with rapid electrification and surging renewable generation.
  • Quote: “Grid congestion is like a traffic jam on the power grid. So it’s caused by either too much power demand…or too much power supply…” (24:23, Nick Miles quoting Keesian Ramo)
• 8,000 companies wait to feed in green power, 12,000 seek to consume more, but “for both categories, the grid is congested.” (26:06, Eugene Byings)
• Full system modernization estimated to cost $230 billion by 2040. (26:56, Samir Shah)

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6. South Korea’s Martial Law Crisis (27:44–29:49)

New Charges Against Ex-President Yoon:

• Ex-president Yoon Suk Yeol faces accusations of weakening the military and attempting to incite North Korea, aiming to justify martial law and eliminate opponents.
  • Report: “The accusation is that Mr. Yun wanted the North Korean to strike back, at which point there could be a limited war between the two Koreas…” (27:44, Jake Kwon)
• Yoon denies all charges, claiming actions were to draw attention to political issues.

Aftermath:

• New president seeks reconciliation and international re-engagement: “South Korea is back from the chaos. Its shops are open, and it’s ready to engage the world…” (29:08, Jake Kwon)

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7. Inside Cybercrime: Interview with “Tank” (29:49–33:21)

The Rise of a Hacker:

• Vyacheslav Penchakov (“Tank”) describes early days:
  • Quote: “We set up fake websites selling fake goods, then used stolen credit card details to buy those products from ourselves… It was a popular trick.” (30:40)
  • “I was changing cars like changing clothes.” (30:49, Tank via producer)

Deeper Analysis:

• BBC’s Joe Tidy explains the connection between gaming cheats, teenage criminality, and the growth of sophisticated ransomware attacks.
• Ongoing challenge for law enforcement: “We have had some absolutely enormous cyber attacks… cybercriminals…holding corporations to ransom for millions or tens of millions.” (32:24, Joe Tidy)
• Lack of remorse is common among cybercriminals, viewing Western businesses as victimless targets.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Samir Shah on the Trump documentary scandal: “The apologizing is for the way the team edited President Trump's speech to his supporters on January 6th.” (03:41)
• Rob Watson on the BBC’s future: “The timing could not be worse for the BBC… Someone's going to have to make a pretty compelling case [to renew BBC’s Royal Charter].” (06:50)
• Ola Guerin’s report from Syria: “Being an Alawite in the new Syria can be a death sentence… If we are all going to get killed, it’s better we flee.” (12:51)
• Rachel Kite on climate negotiation frustration: “There shouldn’t be a lack of faith. There should be some righteous indignation…” (19:03)
• Keesian Ramo describing energy challenges: “Grid congestion is like a traffic jam on the power grid…” (24:23)
• Tank on hacker life: “I was changing cars like changing clothes.” (30:49)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:27–08:09: Trump threatens to sue the BBC, leadership crisis, BBC response
• 08:09–12:51: Syrian president's historic US visit, minority group fears post-Assad
• 13:50–16:19: Sarkozy released from prison, analysis of his legal strategy
• 18:06–22:54: COP30 climate talks, Rachel Kite on global climate efforts and obstacles
• 22:54–27:05: Dutch green energy grid problems and required investments
• 27:44–29:49: South Korea’s political crisis and aftermath
• 29:49–33:21: Cybercrime profile: Interview with “Tank” and expert analysis

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Tone & Style

The episode maintains the BBC World Service’s signature authoritative yet conversational style, blending sober reporting with firsthand accounts and expert insights. The tone adapts to each segment—from the gravity of media integrity crises, to the urgency of climate action, to the personal stories of those affected by global events.

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For Listeners:

This episode offers a comprehensive overview of ongoing global crises—media trust, political transitions, and technological threats—illuminated by informed voices and on-the-ground reporting. It is essential listening for anyone seeking to understand the interconnected challenges facing news media, democracies, and global governance today.

Transcript

[Nick Miles]

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[Ola Guerin]

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[Nick Miles]

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[Jake Kwon]

We wanted to start new businesses, but.

[Nick Miles]

There is no security.

[Jake Kwon]

My dearest friends are dead.

[Nick Miles]

I will have to leave the country again. And as another UN climate change conference is getting underway in Brazil, for many delegates, it's personal.

[Jake Kwon]

You know, I'm a new dad. My son's almost three. So the ways that I think about the climate crisis now is so wild. So my orientation to the climate crisis is so much more. And it's something that's often at the.

[Nick Miles]

Back of my mind. Right. Also in this podcast, we set up fake websites selling fake goods.

[Joe Tidy]

Did you ever feel guilty?

[Nick Miles]

We didn't think about consequences.

[Joe Tidy]

What were you buying?

[Jake Kwon]

I was changing cars.

[Nick Miles]

Like changing clothes. An exclusive interview with a former cybercriminal who helped swindle people out of hundreds of millions of dollars. It has been described as an extraordinary moment in the history of the BBC. The resignations of Tim Davy, who was in overall charge of the corporation and his head of news, Deborah Turnis. As you may have heard in our earlier edition, it all came about after a leaked memo criticised a BBC TV documentary program about president which was broadcast weeks before he won the election a year ago. The specific error at the heart of the crisis was about the editing of a speech made by the President on the day of the riots on Capitol Hill in 2021. The program put two parts of the President's speech together, so he appeared to explicitly encourage the rioting that day. That wasn't made clear to viewers. Questions are now being raised about the impartiality of the BBC, one of its key commitments to its viewers and listene. And there's been a furious reaction from Washington where President Trump has said some BBC journalists are corrupt. In the last couple of hours, the BBC chairman, Samir Shah has apologized on behalf of the corporation. He explained to the BBC's Katie Razzle what he was apologizing for.

[Samir Shah]

The apologizing is for the way the.

[Nick Miles]

Team edited President Trump's speech to his.

[Samir Shah]

Supporters on January 6th.

[Nick Miles]

And that was the wrong call. It was a mistake. Is that what you're saying? Yes. And are you going to be. Are you apologizing directly to President Trump personally on behalf of the BBC? We have received communication from President Trump.

[Samir Shah]

And his people and we are at the moment considering how to apply to him.

[Nick Miles]

Has he said that he's going to be suing the BBC?

[Samir Shah]

I do not know that yet, but he's a litigious fellow so we should be prepared for all outcomes.

[Nick Miles]

And since that interview was recorded, BBC News has learned that President Donald Trump has sent a letter to the BBC threatening legal action. When something goes seriously wrong at the BBC, it matters not only because of the role the corporation plays in British public life, but also because of its reach and influence around the world. Rob Watson is our UK affairs correspondent. So what more has Samir Shah said and where does this take us? He spoke to Julian Warraker.

[Rob Watson]

So the second part of his letter, you basically heard the first part there, which is an apology for editing Donald Trump the way that the BBC had. The second part is to say that memo, now infamous memo, almost Julian, that has leaked, which essentially was internal criticism of the BBC, whether it was reporting its reporting of Israel trans rights. What he has said is that, look, we have addressed some of those issues because the memo basically said, look, all these reports went to the BBC senior management and they didn't implement stuff. They didn't seem to take it very seriously. He's saying, no, actually A lot of the points made in there, we have taken action. So, for example, the letter talks about new leadership in certain areas, new editorial guidelines, people were disciplined, and that corrections were made.

[Nick Miles]

I mentioned President Trump's reaction. What of political reaction here in Britain to all of this?

[Rob Watson]

Well, it's varied along the political spectrum. So the more you go to the right is more the sense that the BBC has a fundamental problem, that there is a systemic bias, that it's a sort of a liberal bias against Israel in favor of trans rights against Donald Trump. And then the more you move to the other end of the spectrum, it's the idea that actually the BBC has been victim of a political coup and that Those on the BBC's board who were appointed by the previous Conservative government were somehow gunning for Tim Davy. Tim Davy and the Director of News, Deborah Turner, who's left. So it's a broad spectrum. I think that the sort of shred of good news for the BBC, if one could put it that way, is that a lot of the criticism has said, look, you know, we recognize that the BBC is a national and international asset. It's by and large a force for good. So to that extent, you know, the BBC can maybe breathe a little bit of a sigh of relief. Just a little bit.

[Nick Miles]

Julian, what of the timing of all of this with regards to the future of the BBC and particularly the charter that has to be renewed at intervals, which establishes its commitment to what the government requires of it? To a degree.

[Rob Watson]

I mean, the timing could not be worse for the BBC. All right, The BBC is an unusual organization. It's not controlled by the government, but it's not a commercial organization. It's established by a royal charter, and every 10 years that's reviewed. And what's meant by that review is what is the BBC's role here in the UK and in the world? How should it be funded? How should it be regulated? That case now needs to be made to British society, to Parliament, to parliamentarians, to politicians. Now it's going to be someone new making that case because the BBC has lost its Director General. And someone's going to have to make a pretty compelling case.

[Nick Miles]

And that someone, I mean, the challenge facing whoever takes on that role is enormous, isn't it?

[Rob Watson]

It is. And one thing that Tim Davy had said, I think, don't know whether it's privately or publicly while I'm making it public now anyway, is, you know, he said, if you, you know, if you look at his inbox as the Director General of the BBC, it's just terrifying. And that's because although here we are on the World Service talking about news. Julian the BBC is massive, right? It does drama, it does entertainment, it does sport, it's radio, it's television, it's online. So and it employs lots of people. So things are going wrong as well as right all the time. So it's a pretty high pressure job, that's for sure. But on the other hand, you have an awful lot of influence in British society in that job and as you do at the BBC.

[Nick Miles]

Rob Watson, as we record this podcast, the Syrian president Ahmed Al Shara is due to be holding talks with President Trump. The US once had a $10 million bounty on Mr. Shara's head when he led a group affiliated with Al Qaeda. He will be the first Syrian leader to visit the White House since the country's independence nearly 80 years. Our U.S. state Department correspondent, Tom Bateman on the significance of President Shara's visit to Washington. This makes history in more than one way. I mean, it is in fact, the first visit by a Syrian president ever to the White House since the independence of the country in 1946. So that is saying something. And it gives you a sense, I think, of the embrace that the Americans are very keen to put around Ahmed Al Shara. And in particular because what they see in terms of the win for the Americans and their allies in the region is trying to solidify the dramatic shifts we've seen. So the collapse of Russian and Iranian influence in Syria and to try to sort of shore up Damascus and the current momentum under Al Shadra's leadership to try and, you know, put Damascus firmly in the orbit of the Americans and their allies in the region. Since ousting President Bashar Al Assad last December, Mr. Sharra has promised to be a president for all Syrians, not just the Sunni Muslim majority, but minority communities in the country. Fear for the future, as our senior international correspondent Ola Guerin now reports from Homs province in western Syria.

[Ola Guerin]

This was the hail of bullets that killed Wissam and Shafiq Mansour recorded on cctv. Their friend was shot in the hand but escaped in the chaos, breaking his ankle as he fled. He agreed to speak to us, but fears for his safety. His words are spoken by a producer.

[Jake Kwon]

To this day, I don't believe what's happened. When the regime fell, we all came.

[Nick Miles]

Back to Syria, but there is no security. My dearest friends are dead.

[Jake Kwon]

There are many extremist and hardline groups.

[Nick Miles]

I don't know where Syria is going.

[Ola Guerin]

Many in the valley are now feeling vulnerable. Before the regime fell, they backed Assad, as many Christians did, and he backed them. Wissam was part of a local pro Assad militia. Some here say that's why he was targeted. The two bodies have been brought through the streets to the church. There is a deep sense in this village of loss and grief. They're asking if their community will be targeted again and what the future is for them. In the new Syria, less than an hour's drive away, we found another community in fear. Alawites, the sect of Bashar Al Assad. In the old days, that could bring benefits. Now it's a curse. Alawites are the main targets for revenge killings. I'm in a family home in the city of Homs and there's a very large framed photograph. This girl was 14 years old and she was killed recently. I'm with her mom. Could I ask you to tell me what happened? We were on the balcony at around.

[Nick Miles]

11 at night with some neighbors. Suddenly, a motorbike passed by and there was a lot of shooting. She tried to run into the house.

[Samir Shah]

But couldn't make it.

[Nick Miles]

She'd been shot in the chest and died in my arms.

[Ola Guerin]

Do you feel that you were targeted because your family are Alawite?

[Nick Miles]

Yes.

[Ola Guerin]

Have you had any follow up from the police or security services?

[Rachel Kite]

No.

[Ola Guerin]

Masarci?

[Nick Miles]

Nothing. They never came back with any results.

[Ola Guerin]

I'm standing in front of a supermarket and pinned to the front, there's a death notice for Shaban Ezzeddine. This was his shop where he was shot dead. His brother Adnan says Shaban never harmed anyone. But being an Alawite in the new Syria can be a death sentence.

[Nick Miles]

They have been chanting sectarian slogans since the revolution began in 2011. They used to shout Alawites to the coffins, Christians to Beirut. What's happening right now is the seed of forced immigration. It's just the beginning. I lost my brother. Others lost their loved ones. If we are all going to get killed, it's better we flee. Adnan Azzedine ending that report by Ola Guerin. A court in Paris has granted the former French president Nicolas Sarkozy early release from jail, just weeks after he started a five year sentence. Mr. Sarkozy Josie was found guilty of conspiring to obtain election campaign funds from the late Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi. The former president insisted he was innocent and complained about conditions in the La Sante prison in Paris. I got more from our Paris correspondent, Hugh Schofield.

[Hugh Schofield]

It's A twist, but it's a totally predictable twist and one that no one is surprised by. His lawyers at the end of last week, lodged a plea before a judge who decides on these matters. That plea was that he should be released straight away because he has an appeal now scheduled for early next year and has surprised absolutely no one that this judge has ruled that, yes, he should be released. And to be quite clear, I mean, this is no special treatment for him or anything like that. This is perfectly in accordance with all sorts of procedure. But when we reported his jailing three weeks ago, we were all saying he probably won't stay there very long because there will be this bid put in very quickly by his lawyers to get him out again. And that's what's happened.

[Nick Miles]

He was found guilty of criminal conspiracy to obtain election campaign funds from the late Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi. What is the argument of Mr. Sarkozy's lawyers with regards to his appeal?

[Hugh Schofield]

Well, he has argued from the start that he's innocent. His lawyers made out that they were very angry after the conviction because the judges in the first trial that ended three or four weeks ago ruled that he was to be acquitted on the main charges, that is, of having illegally financed his campaign, of having conducted illegal funding. But they found him guilty on what seemed to be, at the time, the lesser charge of criminal association. And the accusation was that he'd let his subordinates go and be try unsuccessfully, as it turned out, to raise money from Colonel Gaddafi. Now, his contention would be, and his lawyer's contention would be that that is ridiculous, the main charge was one of illegally financing his campaign. It never happened. Not a cent was proved to have arrived in his campaign's accounts. And he would say they didn't prove that he knew of what his subordinates were allegedly doing trying to raise money from Colonel Gaddafi's associates. So, you know, it's a very complicated case, but they feel that they've got a strong defence, which they'll be putting at the appeal next year.

[Nick Miles]

And he will be out of jail until that appeal and possibly after. What's the timeframe for it?

[Hugh Schofield]

Nothing surprised me about this. He's 70 years old, French prisons are overcrowded. They do what they can to get people out of jail and that's what's happening. And then he'll be at home, presumably on some kind of restricted movement and certainly not allowed to associate with any of his co convicted people in the trial. And then, yes, the appeal trial will take place in the spring of next year.

[Nick Miles]

Hugh Schofield still to come in this podcast, we go to the Netherlands where the electricity grid can't cope with green energy. Grid congestion is like a traffic jam on the power grid, so it's caused by either too much power demand in a certain area or too much power supply, so too much power being put on the grid. This is the story of the One As a custodial supervisor at a high school, he knows that during cold and.

[Ola Guerin]

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[Nick Miles]

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[Ola Guerin]

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[Nick Miles]

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[Ola Guerin]

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[Nick Miles]

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[Jake Kwon]

And that was the first time that anybody ever ran a car up that.

[Nick Miles]

Fast with no tires on. It almost feels like your eyeballs are going to come out of your head. Tough enough for you? Subscribe to History's Toughest Heroes wherever you get your podcast. The annual UN climate change talks, COP30, are starting in Brazil, with the host nation suggesting that the world's most developed countries are losing enthusiasm for the fight against climate change. Diplomats at the talks in Belem are trying to hammer out the finer details to plans to move away from fossil fuels, help poorer countries deal with the effects of global warming, and protect rainforests. The UK's special envoy for climate, Rachel Kite, is among them. Sarah Montagu, asked her if the people were right to have a lack of faith in the COP process.

[Rachel Kite]

There shouldn't be a lack of faith. There should be some righteous indignation that political leaders are not driving change as fast as they need to. But this is the first day. So President Lula called world leaders together last week and Some came and some very important things were sort of signaled at that point. But now the world is arriving for the negotiations. And I think what's difficult for the public to grasp is that, well, first of all, we reached an agreement 10 years ago in Paris. And then for the last 10 years, we've sort of been negotiating how to do that and adding bits and pieces to the agreement. And now we've got to implement everything that we said we were going to do. You know, it's difficult to have like one big banner headline because we're now into the messy, deeply political business of. And how are we going to transform the energy sector? And how are we transforming our agricultural sector? And how are we investing to make sure that the storms don't. It cause extraordinary damage every year? And that's tough to report on.

[Samir Shah]

Okay, but is it too slow?

[Nick Miles]

Well, to be as effective as it.

[Rachel Kite]

Needs to be, yeah, we're not on track. So that's actually the conversation is, okay, so how do we go faster? Okay, can we speed up the way that we're getting methane emissions out of the economy? Can we speed up the way that we're changing the nitrogen cycle and fertilizers to be able to feed people but with less emissions? These are complex conversations, and that's what's going on here.

[Samir Shah]

Does it matter that the US has.

[Rachel Kite]

Pulling out matters for Americans because they're going to start seeing energy price, inflation, etc. Because of the slowdown of their transition away from, from, from dirty energy. And the rest of the world is electrifying quicker than ever. It matters globally because we need everybody in this conversation because we only have one planet, as everybody says. But 195 countries who signed Paris minus one is not zero. It's 194. And everybody else is getting on with it.

[Ola Guerin]

Indeed.

[Samir Shah]

But it's not just the likes of President Trump.

[Nick Miles]

We've had others like you. Take someone like Bill Gates who's arguing.

[Samir Shah]

That climate change isn't going to wipe out humanity.

[Nick Miles]

Past efforts to get to zero carbon emissions have made progress, but he argues too much money is going into wasteful things and actually the money should be spent on disease and poverty. Those are the problems.

[Rachel Kite]

Well, I think we have to be intelligent enough to hold two ideas in our minds at the same time. So, you know, there's no amount of investment in health systems in Jamaica that would have prevented Melissa from barreling through and causing, at last estimates, more than $10 billion of damage. So we have to reduce emissions, we have to build resilience and resilience includes investing in healthcare systems and protecting people. And we have to be able to do both. It's not an either or.

[Nick Miles]

Do you think, though, that argument, which one hears increasingly, that net zero, that the focus on net zero, it's sucked up too much energy and that there should be a dilution?

[Rachel Kite]

Well, I think that, look, there's a deliberate attempt to sort of weaponize Net zero. But let's break down what net zero means. Net zero means, are you going to have access to clean, reliable, affordable energy? Because that's going to come. It is coming from battery storage and storage and renewable energy, and that gives us energy security as well. As are you going to be able to invest in flood defences? Are you going to have access to clean air? Are you going to be able to have schools that can operate in the summer? Because we now have extreme heat at times of the year that we never had? That's what people want. That's what this is about. The moniker of Net zero, which was negotiated, is something that has been weaponized politically. But what people want and what people need are still the same things. And that's what we're trying to work out, how to deliver affordably here.

[Nick Miles]

Well, as the COP30 climate change conference begins in Brazil, a story now from the Netherlands about problems caused by the transition to green energy. The Netherlands has thousands of homes and businesses waiting to connect to its electricity grid and thousands more waiting to inject power back into the system via solar panels and other power generation methods. The reason? The grid cannot cope with the green energy transition. The BBC's John Laurenson reports from Rotterdam.

[Samir Shah]

When we all use electricity at the same time, our power grid gets overloaded, explains this TV public service announcement. This can cause malfunctions, so use as little electricity as possible between 4 and 9, flip the switch, transport, heating, cooking, the host of rechargeable devices we now use. The Netherlands is electrifying extremely fast. It has the highest number of electric vehicle charging points per capita in Europe, for example. As for electricity production, the Netherlands has replaced gas from its large North Sea reserves with wind and solar leading the way in Europe for the number of solar panels per person. More than one third of Dutch homes have solar panels fitted. But the grid can't cope. Keesian Ramo is the CEO of the Dutch energy producer and supplier Eneco, 70% of whose electricity is now solar and wind.

[Nick Miles]

Grid congestion is like a traffic jam on the power grid. So it's caused by either too much power demand in a certain area or too Much power supply. So too much power being put on the grid, more than the grid and the transformers can handle.

[Samir Shah]

The grid, he says, was designed when electricity was generated by a small number of big, mainly gas fired power plants.

[Nick Miles]

Then we used to have a grid with very big power lines close to those power plants and increasingly smaller power lines as you got more towards the households. And nowadays we're switching to renewable power and that means that there's a lot of power also being injected into the grid in the outskirts of the grid, where there's only relatively small power lines. Here we're in the virtual power plant of Ineco.

[Samir Shah]

At his company's head office in Rotterdam, Kiesian Ramo shows me a very large control panel. It's their virtual power plant that uses AI to help balance the grid. The Dutch have been skillful in managing challenges to the grid so far, largely avoiding blackouts. When production is too high, they turn wind turbines away from the wind and turn off solar panels. They also offer special contracts which give customers a lower price in exchange for being able to stop or lower electricity supply when demand is too high. But for people and companies who want to scale up their use of electricity with a new or larger grid connection, that increasingly is just not possible. Eugene Byings is in charge of grid congestion with Tenet, the company that runs the national electricity grid.

[Nick Miles]

We have about 8,000 companies who want to feed in electricity and produce with either solar panels or wind farms. And we've got about 12,000 organizations, so factories and the bakery and the larger industries who want to take off and consume electricity of the grid. And for both categories, the grid is congested.

[Samir Shah]

For some of the members of the Dutch Chemical association, for example, whose president.

[Rachel Kite]

Is Ninka Homan, grid congestion is putting the future of the Dutch chemical industry at risk. And in other countries it will be easier to invest. And while the problem with chemical industry is they're all value chains and chemical processes are mostly combined processes, and if.

[Ola Guerin]

You lose a part of that, then.

[Nick Miles]

It can have a chain reaction.

[Samir Shah]

Grid company Tenet says it'll need $230 billion of investment in the grid to make it fit for purpose by 2040.

[Nick Miles]

That report by John Laurenson, and you can hear more by searching for Business Daily wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Back in December 2024, the former South Korean president Yoon Suk Yeol declared emergency martial law, citing threats from what he called North Korean forces and anti state elements. It was seen as a serious constitutional breach, and the decree only lasted a few hours before the national assembly rejected it. He's been in and out of detention since then, and now he's facing new charges related to that time. Our reporter Jake Kwon told me more from Seoul.

[Jake Kwon]

The Latest is that Mr. Yoon is now accused of aiding the enemy state by weakening or hurting South Korean military. So back in October last year, a couple months before the martial law that you mentioned, North Korea accused South Korea of flying a drone and dropping propaganda leaflets over their capital city, Pyongyang. And many of us in Seoul were confused because one, South Korea neither confirmed or denied it, and second, it was very unusual for South Korea to drop the leaflets all the way up in Pyongyang. And for what goal? It wasn't very clear. Now we are hearing from the South Korean authorities that it was in fact the President Yoon himself who ordered it. And it becomes even more difficult to believe the more we learn about it, because the accusation is that Mr. Yun wanted the North Korean to strike back, at which point there could be a limited war between the two Koreas, which would have been used as a pretext to declare the martial law. And he would have eliminated his political opponents by imprisoning or worse, possibly. Now, Mr. Yoon is denying any of these accusations, including the insurrection charges for which he is standing trial. And he has maintained that he declared martial law only to bring the public's attention to his lame duck status and any wrongdoing by his opposition.

[Nick Miles]

It does seem extraordinary he denies all these charges. That would indicate a sort of desperate attempt to stay in power at all costs. How has that left South Korea as a society? Has it left it pretty divided still, or are things coming back to normal?

[Jake Kwon]

Well, South Korea has a new president now, and he has been making it very clear that South Korea is back. I mean, he just hosted the APEC summit where a lot of the world leaders were in Korea, including President Trump. And his message has been consistent. South Korea is back from the chaos. Its shops are open, and it's ready to engage the world. Not only the countries invited to the summit, but the one country that was missing, North Korea. He extended the olive branch, saying, let's let bygones be bygones. We can forget the old president and his hostility towards the north, and that his inauguration is a chance at a fresh start. However, North Korea had sworn off any contact with Seoul before, and we will have to see whether North Korean leader Kim Jong Un reaches out.

[Nick Miles]

That was Jake Kwon, a cybercriminal who spent almost 10 years on the FBI's most wanted list, has been speaking to the BBC in an exclusive interview from prison. Vyacheslav Penchakov, known as Tank, was the leader of two separate hacking gangs accused of stealing hundreds of millions of dollars from people around the world. The BBC's cyber correspondent, Joe Tyde spent six hours with him in prison in Colorado for a new podcast from the service called Cyber Hack Evil Corps. Here's a clip of the interview with Tank where he talks about starting out as a hacker. His words here are spoken by a producer. We set up fake websites selling fake goods, then use stolen credit card details to buy those products from ourselves. The credit card companies would pay out like it was a real sale. It was a popular trick.

[Joe Tidy]

Did you ever feel guilty?

[Nick Miles]

We didn't think about consequences. We wanted freedom, independence from our families.

[Joe Tidy]

What were you buying?

[Nick Miles]

Beer, good clothes, expensive shoes. And I would show off the money at school. What teenager doesn't like to brag about, I was changing cars like changing clothes.

[Joe Tidy]

How many did you have?

[Nick Miles]

At one point I had six, all expensive German ones. Well, Joe Tidy told me more about his investigation.

[Joe Tidy]

So he started off doing this sort of scamming as a teenager and I found that part of it really interesting because I've obviously covered lots of attacks by teenagers around the world, and particularly kind of English speaking. But there is that, that kind of mirror image really of his start in cybercrime, coming from cheating on computer games like Counter Strike and FIFA, moving into more serious hacking campaigns. And then eventually he went into this gang called Jabazoo, which he led in the, in the late 2000s, and that's where they were stealing money directly from people's bank accounts, medium and small businesses going into their accounts and just siphoning off thousands. And obviously that money adds up. And then eventually he moved into far more serious, what we call big game hunting, where they go after multinational corporations with things like ransomware. Of course, ransomware is the most pernicious and problematic form of cyber attack of our, of our lifetimes. The likes of Marks and Spencer's in the uk, the Co op, Jaguar Land Rover, we think, being hit by ransomware. So it's really insightful interview that he gave us.

[Nick Miles]

And it's obviously still a process of the authorities trying to play catch up with the hackers who are finding more and more fiendish ways of getting around security. What is the situation now? Are the authorities sort of pretty much on the heels of the hackers?

[Joe Tidy]

No, I wouldn't say so. I mean, if you look at this year, we have had some absolutely enormous cyber attacks on companies in the UK and around the world, we've seen a wave of, of new teenage cyber criminals, English speaking, coming up and using that ransomware technique to get into corporations, encrypt the data, steal lots of data, and then hold them to ransom, usually for millions or tens of millions of pounds or dollars in Bitcoin. And I think what you get when you speak to someone like Tank and Penshikov is you kind of understand the mindset really, because here was a man who caused huge amounts of damage and disruption and heartache for all those people, all those companies that we spoke to and there was no real remorse there, according to him. And a lot of the Russian speaking cybercrime underworld, this is all rich Western companies, there's insurance, there's no real victims. The way they talk about it, there's no remorse there at all. And I think that is the problem we face around the world.

[Nick Miles]

Joe Tidy and that is all from us for now. But there will be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later on. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcastbc.co.uk you can also find us on X@ BBC World Service. Use the hashtag globalnewspod. This edition was mixed by Charlotte Hadroytodzymska. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Nick Miles and until next time, goodbye. Foreign I'm here to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio 4, History's Toughest Heroes. I got stories about the pioneers, the rebels, the outcasts who define tough.

[Jake Kwon]

And that was the first time that anybody ever ran a car up that.

[Nick Miles]

Fast with no tires on.

[Jake Kwon]

It almost feels like your eyeballs walls.

[Nick Miles]

Are going to come out of your head. Tough enough for you? Subscribe to History's Toughest Heroes wherever you get your podcast.