European ministers hold talks with Iran as conflict continues

Summary

Global News Podcast Summary Episode: European Ministers Hold Talks with Iran as Conflict Continues
Release Date: June 20, 2025
Host: Nick Miles, BBC World Service

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1. Escalating Iran-Israel Conflict and European Diplomatic Efforts

Overview:
The episode delves into the renewed airstrikes between Iran and Israel, highlighting the urgent diplomatic efforts by European foreign ministers aiming to de-escalate the crisis. Hosted by Nick Miles, the discussion features insights from Kasra Naji of the BBC Persian Service, providing a deep dive into the complexities of the conflict and the challenges faced in negotiations.

Key Points:

• Current State of Conflict:
  Iran and Israel have resumed airstrikes against each other, intensifying regional tensions. Israeli military actions have targeted missile manufacturing sites and military research centers in Tehran, while Iran has responded with ballistic missile attacks on southern Israel, including the city of Beersheba.

• European Diplomatic Initiatives:
  European foreign ministers are engaging in talks with Iranian counterpart Abbas Arachi in Geneva. The EU's proposal, reportedly a "take it or leave it" offer on behalf of the US, demands a halt to Iran's nuclear enrichment and ballistic missile programs. Kasra Naji explains, "The Europeans are pushing for zero enrichment at the earliest" (02:01).

• Iran's Stance:
  Iran remains steadfast, refusing to negotiate under threat, as stated by their foreign minister, “we are not going to negotiate under duress” (04:10). This intransigence complicates the prospect of reaching a peaceful resolution swiftly.

• Military Implications:
  Israeli defenses, particularly the Arrow missile system, are tested as ballistic missiles from Iran occasionally breach defenses, causing casualties and infrastructure damage. Dan Johnson from Jerusalem notes the system's limitations: "None of these systems are 100% effective" (06:19).

Notable Quotes:

• Kasra Naji on European proposals:
  “It seems that what's on the table ... is a zero enrichment in Iran and a stop to ballistic missile program in Iran” (02:01).

• Dan Johnson on missile defense:
  “There's always a chance of something getting through and causing damage” (06:33).

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2. Humanitarian Impact and Regional Stability

Overview:
Amidst the military exchanges, the podcast highlights the dire humanitarian situation in Iran and Gaza, emphasizing the human cost of the ongoing conflict.

Key Points:

• Displacement in Iran:
  Rehan Dimitri reports from the Armenia-Iran border, describing how families are fleeing the escalating conflict. Many are seeking refuge through Armenia, driven by fears of further bombings and deteriorating living conditions.

• Crisis in Gaza:
  Rushdie Abu Alouf provides a grim account from Cairo, detailing daily fatalities among Palestinians awaiting food aid. The Israeli military's assertions of firing warning shots contrast sharply with the civilian casualties reported.

Notable Quotes:

• Rehan Dimitri on Iranian civilians:
  “People are concerned about their safety first and foremost at this stage” (07:52).

• Rushdie Abu Alouf on Gaza’s suffering:
  “People always pushing to get in the queue ... they are risking their life to get some food” (15:59).

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3. Political Turmoil in Spain Amid Corruption Scandal

Overview:
The Spanish government, led by Pedro Sánchez, faces a significant corruption scandal threatening its stability. The episode examines the political ramifications and public response to the unfolding crisis.

Key Points:

• Corruption Allegations:
  Senior figures within the Socialist Party, including Santos Ferdan and Jose Luis Avalos, are implicated in kickback schemes involving private companies. Audio tapes purportedly capture discussions of these illicit activities.

• Public Outcry:
  Protests erupt outside the Socialist Party headquarters, with demonstrators demanding Sánchez's resignation and imprisonment of implicated officials.

• Government’s Position:
  The Sanchez administration labels the cases as fabricated right-wing attacks aimed at destabilizing the government. However, mounting evidence and public pressure cast doubt on their legitimacy.

• Impact on Leadership:
  With ongoing investigations into Sánchez’s wife and brother, along with the potential trial of the Attorney General, the Prime Minister's future remains uncertain. His participation in the forthcoming NATO summit is overshadowed by these domestic challenges.

Notable Quotes:

• Alberto Nunez Fejo on the government’s integrity:
  “This is confirmation that the Sanchez government is morally compromised” (18:11).

• Reyhan Dimitri on public disillusionment:
  “I’m really worried about it for the young people that don't care about politics ... disappointed to everyone” (20:24).

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4. International Relations: China and the Taiwan Strait Incident

Overview:
China has publicly criticized the passage of a British warship, HMS Spey, through the Taiwan Strait, amidst fragile UK-China relations and ongoing regional tensions.

Key Points:

• China’s Reaction:
  The People's Liberation Army denounced the naval maneuver as an attempt to "cause trouble," asserting that the strait constitutes Chinese waters and that Taiwan is an integral part of China.

• UK’s Position:
  The Royal Navy maintains that HMS Spey's navigation was routine and compliant with international law, reiterating their commitment to maintaining freedom of navigation.

• Diplomatic Context:
  This move occurs as the UK seeks to mend ties with China, with an anticipated visit by the British Prime Minister to Beijing in the near future.

Notable Quotes:

• Rehan Dimitri on China's stance:
  “Beijing views Taiwan as its own territory and considers the strait to be Chinese waters” (22:15).

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5. Conservation Success: Thailand’s Indochinese Tiger Recovery

Overview:
A positive environmental story highlights Thailand's successful efforts in increasing the population of the endangered Indochinese tigers through strategic conservation programs.

Key Points:

• Conservation Strategies:
  The Thai government, in collaboration with the Worldwide Fund for Nature (WWF), has implemented initiatives over the past 15 years, including reintroducing deer as prey to support tiger hunting and sustenance.

• Population Growth:
  From a mere 40 individuals in 2007, the Indochinese tiger population has surged to approximately 200, marking a significant fivefold increase.

• Future Prospects:
  Encouraged by this success, similar projects are being expanded to neighboring countries like Cambodia, aiming for continued growth and sustainability of the tiger population.

Notable Quotes:

• Jae Sung Lee on conservation efforts:
  “The latest government data in Thailand suggests that their numbers have grown fivefold in the past 15 years” (23:05).

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6. Cultural Highlights: Award-Winning Illustration and Musical Collaboration

Overview:
The podcast also touches on notable cultural achievements, including a Carnegie Medal-winning illustration and an unexpected musical duet between iconic Italian figures.

Key Points:

• Carnegie Medal for Illustration:
  Olivia Lomenech Gill discusses her award-winning picture book, Clever Crow, which explores the intelligence and ecological importance of crows. The book aims to reshape perceptions by highlighting the species' role in the food chain and their endangered relatives in regions like Indonesia.

• Andrea Bocelli’s Duet with Jannik Sinner:
  The renowned tenor collaborates with Italian tennis star Jannik Sinner in a duet titled Dust and Glory, blending Bocelli's classical vocals with Sinner's motivational speech excerpts. The track has received mixed reactions, praised by some as a heartfelt tribute and critiqued by others as unconventional.

Notable Quotes:

• Olivia Lomenech Gill on Clever Crow:
  “Crows are very intelligent ... it's very important to get the details right” (25:21).

• Kasra Naji on the duet:
  “The Italian tenor has described the lyrics as a tribute to resilience” (27:15).

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7. Additional International News

• UK-China Relations:
  Amidst tensions, efforts continue to stabilize and improve diplomatic relations between the United Kingdom and China, with strategic naval movements remaining a focal point.

• Global Economic Initiatives:
  Italy’s Prime Minister Giorgio Meloni hosts a summit in Rome to boost economic development in Africa, aiming to reduce illegal immigration through significant investments, though faces criticism regarding the sufficiency of the proposed $6 billion fund.

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Conclusion

This episode of the Global News Podcast offers a comprehensive overview of critical international issues, from the volatile Iran-Israel conflict and its diplomatic repercussions, political instability in Spain, to environmental conservation successes and cultural milestones. Through expert analysis and on-the-ground reporting, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the complexities shaping our world today.

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For more updates and detailed reports, subscribe to the Global News Podcast and stay informed with the BBC World Service.

Transcript

[Unknown Host]

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.

[Kasra Naji]

Packages by Expedia you were made to be rechargeable. We were made to package flights, hotels and hammocks for less. Expedia made to travel. Packages by Expedia you were made to be rechargeable. We were made to package flights, hotels and hammocks for less. Expedia made to travel.

[Nick Miles]

This is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Nick Miles and at 13 hours GMT on Friday 20 June, these are our main stories. Iran and Israel have again traded airstrikes. European foreign ministers are meeting with their Iranian counterpart in Geneva to de escalate the crisis. Also in this podcast I'm really worried.

[Reyhan Dimitri]

About it for the young people that doesn't care about politics because this kind of things that is happening is like disappointed to everyone.

[Nick Miles]

We hear from Spain where many are wondering whether Pedro Sanchez's left wing government will survive a recent corruption scandal. And Thailand says the population of endangered Indochinese tigers is making a remarkable recovery. President Trump says he wants to give negotiations with Iran a chance before launching any US military action. European foreign ministers are meeting with their Iranian counterpart Abbas Arachi in Geneva. Sources involved have told the BBC that the Europeans will be offering Iran a take it or leave it on behalf of America that will aim to completely stop Iran's nuclear enrichment of uranium. Kasra Naji of BBC Persian Service is following developments.

[Kasra Naji]

We don't know what details are really, but listening to various people like the French and others, it seems that what's on the table as far as the French and the Germans at least are concerned is a zero enrichment in Iran and a stop to ballistic missile program in Iran. Iran. So they have brought the ballistic missile program into the fray because the Iranian ballistic missile attacks on Israel has inflicted damage and some of these missiles have very large range, possibly beyond 2,000 kilometers and beyond that. So they are posing a real threat. Iranians are saying that they're not going to give up on their enrichment rights or they're not going to talk about the ballistic missiles at all. This is the Iranian foreign minister that has said this. So on the whole I don't think this is going to get anywhere at the moment. But nevertheless, the Europeans are pushing for zero enrichment at the earliest.

[Nick Miles]

Kasra One particular point on that enrichment. I mean Iran has one civilian nuclear power station. It imports the nuclear fuel, fuel for that from Russia. Why would it need to enrich unless it was for other purposes?

[Kasra Naji]

This is the question that many people Have. There are no countries that don't have a nuclear weapon program and are enriching to the extent that Iran is 60%, which doesn't make sense and it doesn't. 60% enrichment in Iran doesn't have any use really. But nevertheless, they've been accumulating some 400 kilogram of that. That is if it enriched to 90%, which is needed for a nuclear bomb, which is only a short step away, that's enough for about nine or 10 nuclear bombs. That's why everyone is worked up.

[Nick Miles]

It sounds as though Tehran is not going to back down on this enrichment issue. So where does this proposal go?

[Kasra Naji]

I suppose the proposal by the Western powers is backed by force that Israel is imposing on this thing and the extent of Israeli attacks. So Iran is under attack physically. And I suppose the Western powers hope that given what is happening and the pressure on Iran, Iran might change, just accept this. But listening to the Iranian foreign minister saying that we are not going to negotiate under duress under these pressures, not as long as the war is going to go on. So I suppose Iranians are saying that if you really want to negotiate, get Israel to stop it.

[Nick Miles]

Kazra Naji as diplomats were preparing to talk in Geneva, Israel and Iran were carrying out further airstrikes against each other. The Israeli military said it attacked dozens of targets, including what it called missile manufacturing sites in the Tehran area. It said the headquarters of a military research center were also hit. We got this update from Dan Johnson in Jerusalem.

[Dan Johnson]

We had missiles fired from Iran towards the south of Israel again this morning, repeating something that happened yesterday and hitting the same area, Beersheba, the city in the city south and very close to the hospital that was hit yesterday. The Iranian officials said that they were actually, rather than the hospital yesterday, targeting a technology park nearby and that has been hit this morning. We're not sure exactly how many missiles got through, but there are videos showing buildings on that complex on fire. The emergency services are responding. Some nearby residential buildings have also been hit. At least five people injured there. And that was perhaps in response to the Israeli airstrikes over Iran last night. We know there were 60 jets in the air targeting Tehran and targeting the headquarters of Iran's nuclear research organization.

[Nick Miles]

And Dan, with regards to the number of missiles from Iran getting in and through the missile defense system into Israel on the ground, is there a degree of surprise and concern about the number of missiles getting through?

[Dan Johnson]

Yeah, I think because the Iron Dome system has been so much talked about and has been so effective, particularly against the rockets that Hamas was firing from Gaza that the expectation has built up that Israel's air defenses are almost impenetrable. The reality is when we're talking about ballistic missiles, not just rockets that are coming from much further afield, thousands of miles away in Iran, it's a different system that is in action. It's not the Iron Dome, it's. It is the arrow defense system, which works slightly differently. It's effective in its own way, but not 100%. None of these systems are 100% effective. And the systems prioritize the missiles that are expected to target areas of population or particularly sensitive sites. But still they're not able to bring everything down. There's always a chance of something getting through and causing damage. The air defenses also become depleted. At some point, Israel will need to restock its supply supplies if it is to keep up this air defence.

[Nick Miles]

Dan Johnson well, some people in Iran have been fleeing the Israeli air attacks, with many reporting difficult living conditions, including food shortages and limited Internet access. Our reporter Rehan Dimitri is at the crossing point of Megri on the Armenia, Iran border. She told us what she's been hearing.

[Rehan Dimitri]

We are seeing a slow but steady trickle of people coming through from Iran. We've spoken to families and it appears that mainly people who are coming through this border are those who have either residency or citizenship in other countries, in European countries, and they're looking into getting a flight from the Armenian capital, Yerevan. Some people are willing to talk and earlier we spoke to a man who was traveling from eastern Iran, and when I asked him what was the feeling inside the country, what are people saying, whether it looks like there might be a regime change. And he said that people are concerned about their safety first and foremost at this stage. But he said, referring to Israel, he said that what people feel is that whatever Israel is doing, it's in its own interest, it's not in the interest of the Iranian people. Therefore, he thought that it is unlikely to lead to regime change. We've spoken to other families as well, they're just not commenting. And my feeling is from talking to them that they're just exhausted and they want to get to safety rather than thinking about big geopolitical change in their country. And one more thing, those who have been traveling from Tehran, I've been asking them whether it really feels like a war, whether they've seen bombing and destruction. And several people told me that they could hear the bombing. They didn't really see it, but that was enough for them to pack their bags and leave.

[Nick Miles]

Reyhan Dmitry President Putin, who's attending an economic forum in St Petersburg, is due to deliver a keynote speech on Friday. He's been focusing on the Russian economy, but there are expectations he'll address the tensions in the Middle East. Russia has a strategic partnership with the Islamic Republic. Mr. Putin has offered to mediate in the crisis and our Russia editor, Steve Rosenberg reports.

[Steve Rosenberg]

In an exhibition hall on the edge of St Petersburg, a monastery choir performs at the opening of Russia's flagship economic forum. Business leaders, government officials and politicians stand entranced by the beautiful music. It is a rare moment of calm at a time of conflict, with Russia continuing to wage war on Ukraine and now Israel and Iran trading strikes. Here at the forum, I ask Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova, how concerned is she by escalation in the Middle East?

[Kasra Naji]

I think that all people on the plan should be concerned, not because it's another escalation, but because the situation is developing around nuclear issues and the shelling and bombing is focused on the nuclear object materials. This is a nightmare for all normal people.

[Steve Rosenberg]

Russia and Iran are close allies. Earlier this year, the two presidents, Putin and Pezesh Kyan, signed a comprehensive strategic partnership agreement. But this is no military alliance. It does not oblige Moscow to come to Tehran's defence. And it hasn't stopped the Kremlin maintaining good relations with Israel. In St Petersburg this week, Vladimir Putin repeated his offer to mediate in the Middle East. Signals he said had been sent to Iran, Israel and the United States, though he gave no details.

[Kasra Naji]

I think Russia has obvious good ways to talk to different parties of the conflict. But once again, let's see how situation develops.

[Steve Rosenberg]

Kirill Dmitriev is an envoy to President Putin.

[Kasra Naji]

I think all of us want stability in the Middle East. All of us want some kind of resolution. I think nobody is interested in a very prolonged, difficult conflict there.

[Steve Rosenberg]

You have very good working relations with Steve Witkoff, the US Special envoy, envoy to the Middle east, but also involved in Russia, Ukraine. Have you spoken to Mr. Wyckoff in recent days about the situation in the Middle East?

[Kasra Naji]

Yeah, I cannot comment on my conversations with Mr. Witkoff in detail. All I can say is that he has definitely had great conversations with President Putin and I think his sort of ability to ask questions and understand Russian position has been very important.

[Steve Rosenberg]

Some here believe that Russia actually benefits from tensions in the Middle East. They forecast that higher global oil prices will boost Russia's economy and that the attention of the world will be diverted away from Russia's war in Ukraine. But the idea of US military Intervention in Iran and the prospect of regime change there. Moscow sees nothing positive about that, hence the offer of mediation. Yevgeny Popov is a Russian MP and TV anchor.

[Kasra Naji]

Putin is only president who spoke with Iranian president, Israeli Prime Minister and Donald Trump. And of course, it's a dangerous situation and the Israeli should not bomb civilians. First of all, we just like Russia.

[Steve Rosenberg]

Shouldn'T bomb civilians, right?

[Kasra Naji]

We, we never bomb civilians. We just targeting military targets and infrastructure.

[Steve Rosenberg]

In Ukraine, there was a mass Russian attack on Kyiv a couple of days ago. Drones and missiles and civilians, not civilians. The Kremlin is presenting itself as a unique mediator in the Middle East. Russia the peacemaker. Promoting that label won't be easy after more than three years of war in Ukraine.

[Nick Miles]

Steve Rosenberg People across Gaza continue to be desperate for food aid. But almost every day Palestinians waiting for those supplies are killed by Israeli soldiers who say they fired warning shots to restore order. In the latest incident, more than 20 people were killed, adding to the hundreds that have died over the last month. There's been no comment on the latest incident by the Israeli military. Our correspondent Rushdie Abu Alouf is monitoring events from Cairo.

[Rushdie Abu Alouf]

Just 100 people killed over the last 24 hours. The latest is 34 people in two separate incidents. I saw footage from the hospital showing tens of people in the ground. They were trying to treat them. The hospital in Nusayrat camp where the injured were taken is relatively small and they are struggling to deal with the number of people injured. They are calling people to donate blood to be able to try to save the life of the people. And we have seen everyday people also killed in the north, not exactly near the humanitarian foundation because they don't have any in the north. In the south, they have four centers. And every day as soon as they announced that they opened the center, thousands of people will gather and the area is under Israeli security control. People always pushing to get in the queue in the beginning of the queue, and they get killed either near centers or waiting for the trucks near the northern border with Gaza. And when we did ask people every day why you are going, they said, because we have no other option. We are starving and our kids are starving and they are risking their life to get some food.

[Nick Miles]

Rushdie Abu Alouf Italy's Prime Minister Giorgio Meloni is hosting a summit aimed at boosting economic development in Africa and in the process cutting illegal immigration. Leaders from several African countries will join the meeting in Rome, as well as the head of the European Commission, Our Europe regional editor Paul Moss reports.

[Kasra Naji]

It's Called the Matei Plan, named after an Italian politician who transformed the country's energy sector, it would direct more than $6 billion to joint investment projects with energy, a particular focus. Giorgia Meloni has made clear this is not about charity. If African countries are more wealthy, she argues, for fewer people there will join the thousands of migrants who try to reach the Italian coast each year. Critics say $6 billion is not enough to transform Africa's economy in any significant way. Or to give would be migrants less reason to leave.

[Nick Miles]

Paul Moss still to come it's very.

[Reyhan Dimitri]

Important obviously to get the details right. If you start studying anything, it opens up a whole world of interesting facts and unexpected things you might not ever have discovered. So that's what I did with the Crow family when I started researching them.

[Nick Miles]

We hear from the illustrator of a book about crows, which has just won the Carnegie Medal for illustration.

[Kasra Naji]

Packages by Expedia. You were made to be rechargeable. We were made to package flights, hotels and hammocks for less. Expedia made to travel.

[Nick Miles]

The left wing Spanish government of Pedro Sanchez was thrown into crisis recently by a corruption scandal. Audio tapes seem to show senior Socialist Party figures discussing a kickback scheme. Having become prime minister in 2018, many are wondering if Mr. Sanchez can survive this storm. Guy Hedgko reports from Madrid.

[Unknown Host]

I'm outside the headquarters of the Socialist Party of Pedro Sanchez, where people have been gathering every night recently to demand the prime minister's resignation. Many of them are waving the Spanish flag and they're chanting, demanding that he be put in prison and accusing the government of being a group of mafiosos. This reflects the anger of many right wing voters at their left wing government. This was the moment an abashed Pedro Sanchez apologized to Spaniards, saying he should never have trusted Santos Ferdan, the senior Socialist Party figure who has been implicated in a corruption probe. Also being investigated is Jose Luis Avalos, a former transport minister and senior figure in the party. Audio gathered by investigators appeared to show both men discussing kickbacks from private companies worth hundreds of thousands of euros. They say they've done nothing wrong. Alberto Nunez Fejo, leader of the Conservative People's Party, says this is confirmation that the Sanchez government is morally compromised.

[Nick Miles]

Politically speaking, Sanchez cannot survive either Avalos or Cerdan or all the other cases. Corruption is now the hallmark of this government, which is why this now has to come to an end.

[Unknown Host]

Those other cases Mr. Nunez Fero mentioned include an investigation into Mr. Sanchez's wife for alleged business irregularities. Meanwhile, his brother is due to go on trial for alleged influence peddling and the Attorney General could also face trial accused of revealing confidential information. The government sees these particular cases as fabricated and part of a right wing campaign to bring it down. On the streets of Madrid, opinions are strong.

[Steve Rosenberg]

The government is corrupted or the people.

[Reyhan Dimitri]

Around the government are corrupted.

[Steve Rosenberg]

What you expect is them to resign.

[Nick Miles]

And call for elections, but it looks.

[Unknown Host]

Like they are going to continue.

[Reyhan Dimitri]

I'm really worried about it for the young people that doesn't care about politics because doesn't trust it because this kind of things that happen is like disappointed to everyone.

[Kasra Naji]

For the people in the right, it's very easy sunset out. But for the people in the left it's difficult because now we are in a period that Spain is going well, is well accepted in the outside world. But of course these corruption cases are affecting to us, the people in the left.

[Unknown Host]

In Parliament, the opposition chants at the Prime Minister to resign, but he says he has no intention of doing so or of bringing forward the 2027 elections. His government stability now appears to depend on the support of its parliamentary allies and whether or not more damaging revelations emerge. Mr. Sanchez heads to the upcoming NATO summit with serious doubts about his future and under pressure over Spain's defence spending. His government has promised to increase military spending to 2% of GDP this year. But he appears to be heeding demands from some of his domestic allies to resist calls from the United States and the NATO leadership to raise it further. The renowned survivor of Spanish politics is now facing his toughest test, Guy Hedgecombe.

[Nick Miles]

China's military has criticised the sailing of a British warship through the Taiwan Strait on Wednesday, describing it as a deliberate attempt to cause trouble. The Royal Navy said HMS Spey conducted a routine navigation through the waterway as part of a long planned deployment in full compliance with international law. Our China correspondent, Laura Bicker, reports from Beijing.

[Rehan Dimitri]

China's People's Liberation army described the sailing of the patrol vessel as public hyping and said its forces followed and monitored the spay. Beijing views Taiwan as its own territory and considers the strait to be Chinese waters. Taiwan, the United States and many of its allies say it's an international waterway. The last time a British warship passed through the strait was in 2021. This latest passage comes at a time when the UK and China are seeking to mend relations and the Prime Minister is widely expected to visit Beijing in the coming year.

[Nick Miles]

Laura Bicker A tiger population in Thailand that's been under threat is now making a comeback. It's all thanks to efforts on the part of the Thai Government and the Worldwide Fund for Nature, the wwf. Jae Sung Lee told us more about the project.

[Jae Sung Lee]

The Indochinese tigers are a subspecies of the tiger, and as their name suggests, they're only found in the greater Mekong region of Southeast Asia, which includes Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam, and of course, Thailand. And they're generally a bit smaller in size compared to the Bengal tigers, which are commonly found in the Indian subcontinent just a bit westwards from where Thailand is.

[Nick Miles]

And it had been decreasing in numbers, but now it's growing in numbers. What's that down to?

[Jae Sung Lee]

So, as you've mentioned earlier, you know, this is all thanks to the efforts by the Thai government and the wwf, which, you know, these projects that they've been doing have been ongoing for the last 15 years. What they do is that they bring deer to these wild rainforests where these tigers roam. These deer are used as prey for these tigers, for them to find them, hunt them, and then eat them for food. And this has proved to be, as you've said, quite successful because the latest government data in Thailand suggests that their numbers have grown fivefold in the past 15 years. So they thought, you know, they, they said about 40 of them existed in the wild in 2007. Last year, they say this has now, you know, the number is around 200. So it's a, it's a big, it's a big jump.

[Nick Miles]

So they prey on these deals. One imagines that at some point this program is going to have to stop and they're going to have to find their own prey. Or do you think it's going to carry on long term? Is that the plan?

[Jae Sung Lee]

I think from what we've been hearing from the WWF representative in Thailand, you know, they're very, very, very optimistic that this program is working well for the tiger population. In fact, they've actually expanded this to other countries in the region, such as Cambodia, because of how successful it was. So because the number is still very small, though, 200 is still a very small number. So I think for the foreseeable future, they will be continuing this project so that their numbers can even grow further.

[Nick Miles]

Jsung Lee, take another look at crows. See beyond their dark plumage and raucous squawks, that is what the picture book Clever Crow promises. And its illustrator, Olivia Lemenach Gill, has just won the Carnegie Medal for illustration. She's been speaking to the BBC about the book.

[Reyhan Dimitri]

It's really learning by looking. I approach it very much as an artist, but for Clever Crow, it was very important. Even though it's for Very young readers. Because it's a non fiction book, it's very important obviously to get the details right. If you start studying anything, it opens up a whole world of interesting facts and unexpected things you might not ever have discovered. So that's what I did with the crow family when I started researching them. You discover first of all that crows exist all over the world, that it's a huge family. The Corvidae family is a very big family, which include members of the crow family, which we may well know already, and others that we don't. So the magpie, the jay, they're members of the crow family. Crows are very intelligent, which is obviously the focus of the book. I mean, we regard crows as. I've always lived in sort of rural areas where crows are regarded as a nuisance, where. Which is a shame because we see them with a bad, you know, have quite bad propaganda. So I think this book hopefully goes some way to talking about the crows as an important part of the food chain and the fact that elsewhere in the world there are members of the crow family which are very, very endangered, like the floors crow, which exists in the Lesser Sundar Islands in Indonesia. And I think it's particularly important in this very digital age. I work still very much with pen and paper and I don't have a mobile phone, so I really try and observe. I mean, obviously with birds it's very difficult to observe them from close proximity and in flight. So the digital resources we have are also extremely useful.

[Nick Miles]

That was Olivia Lomenech Gill. The classical singer Andrea Bocelli has released an unexpected duet with his fellow Italian and tennis world number one, Jannik Sinner. The title of the song translates as Dust and glory and features Sinner rec motivational lines from his winning and losing speeches. Klitja Sala has been listening.

[Kasra Naji]

The Italian tenor has described the lyrics as a tribute to resilience and said he admires Jannik Sinner's humility. In response, the tennis champion said that hearing his voice in one of Bocelli's songs was incredibly moving. The track has been described as a musical dialogue between two Italian icons, but it has received a mixed response on social media in the short time since its release. Some have hailed it as the summer hit they didn't know they needed, while others have dismissed it as cringeworthy. Others are calling the tennis champion Jannik.

[Nick Miles]

Singer Khalidzia Sala reporting. And that's all from us for now. But there will be a new edition of the global news podcast later if you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcastbc.co.uk. you can also find us on x@bcworldservice. Use the hashtag globalnewspod. This edition was mixed by Ben Martin, and the producers were Charles Sanctuary and Stephanie Tillotson. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Nick Miles, and until next time, goodbye.