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Global News Podcast
Face to face with IS prisoners in Syria
00:31:57
The BBC speaks to IS fighters held in north eastern Syria, as the caliphate regroups
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- [00:00]
Nick Miles
This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.
- [00:06]
Asma Khalid
America is changing and so is the world.
- [00:10]
Tristan Redman
But what's happening in America isn't just the cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.
- [00:18]
Asma Khalid
I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, dc.
- [00:20]
Tristan Redman
I'm Tristan Redman in London and this is the Global Story.
- [00:25]
Asma Khalid
Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.
- [00:30]
Tristan Redman
Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:38]
Nick Miles
This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Nick Mars and in the early hours of Monday 27th October, these are our main stories. The BBC comes face to face with former Islamic State fighters in a Syrian prison as IS increases attacks in the northeast of the country. In Argentina's midterm elections, President Milei's party achieves a landslide victory. The French authorities make arrests in connection to last week's theft of crown jewels from the Louvre museum. Also in this podcast, Venezuela's Attorney General reacts to US assertions that it's fighting a war against drug traffickers there.
- [01:24]
Tristan Redman
This is not an issue of democracy. It's about taking away Venezuela's gold, oil, copper and iron. Venezuela is one of the richest countries.
- [01:33]
Nick Miles
On the planet and the Indian weavers devastated by Donald Trump's tariffs.
- [01:40]
Tristan Redman
Two months ago, I was making $180 a day. Now I barely make 80. We've taken a loan to cover the expenses and I'm scared if I fail to repay it, they'll take my land.
- [01:57]
Nick Miles
We begin in Syria, where Islamic State fighters have regrouped in the wake of the collapse of the Bashar Al Assad regime and are increasing their attacks on the Kurdish controlled northeast of the country. When the IS caliphate fell several years ago, some 8,000 suspected fighters were imprisoned in Syria and thousands of their relatives were herded into makeshift camps in desolate Cond. Some countries have repatriated their nationals, but many from the UK have been stripped of their citizenship and are still in Syria. Our senior international correspondent, Ola Guerin sent this special report from the northeast of the country.
- [02:39]
Ola Guerin
We've just arrived at the entrance to Al Sina Prison, the largest jail for IS detainees. We've been asked to wear masks. Prison authorities tell us tuberculosis is rife here. It's very rare to get access inside this prison. Security is extremely tight. Locked gates, bolted doors, guards every few steps. IS suspects have been held here for years, including some former leaders. And counterterrorism officials here tell us they believe the men here are still a threat. One of the detainees has been brought out. He's from London. His name is Hamza PERVEZ and he's 32. How did you come to join Islamic State?
- [03:30]
Tristan Redman
I found out about the Islamic State through the Internet. I heard that they wanted to implement a version of Sharia law.
- [03:38]
Ola Guerin
But Islamic State was also involved in kidnapping, in enslaving Yazidi women, in beheading. Were you okay with all of that?
- [03:47]
Tristan Redman
A lot of these things that happened throughout the five years of the Islamic State were very unfortunate. There's a lot of things that I don't agree with, and there are a few things that happen in the Islamic State I do agree with.
- [03:57]
Ola Guerin
Unfortunate seems like a very tame word to describe beheadings and killings and rape and kidnapping of women.
- [04:05]
Tristan Redman
Definitely a lot of unfortunate and lot of horrific things do happen at war.
- [04:09]
Ola Guerin
What would you say to the British government?
- [04:11]
Tristan Redman
I would say that me and the rest of the British citizens that are here in the prison, we don't wish any harm.
- [04:19]
Ola Guerin
How can people be sure of that? Given what you did, given what is did, how can people possibly accept that you're not a threat?
- [04:25]
Tristan Redman
It's not going to be easy. They're going to have to take my word for it. It's something that I can't convince people about. I do think about a lot. It's a huge risk that they will have to take to bring us back. It's true.
- [04:36]
Ola Guerin
Whatever Hamza Parvez is guilty of, he hasn't been tried or convicted. The same goes for other Western IS detainees and their families. Thousands of their wives and children are being arbitrarily detained in desolate tented camps. A new generation is growing up here, and there are concerns that this place could be an incubator for radicalization. We meet a mother of four from London. Mihak Aslam would like to go home, but she has been stripped of her British citizenship. She denies joining is but admits bringing her children to its territory where her eldest daughter was killed in an explosion. You say you're very worried about the conditions here. They're not good for the children. Why not let them go home?
- [05:32]
Hannah Ericsson
This was offered a while ago, which I declined. Unfortunately, my children have pretty much grown up just in camp. This is life. They don't know a world outside. Two of my children are born in Syria. They've never seen Britain. And going to family who, again, they don't know. It will be very, very difficult.
- [05:50]
Ola Guerin
But your youngest is only 8. As I understand you're choosing to keep an 8 year old here in these conditions.
- [05:57]
Hannah Ericsson
It's not that I'm choosing to. I don't think I should have to make that choice. No mother should have to make that choice of being separated from her children.
- [06:04]
Ola Guerin
But you chose to go to a country where at that stage the Islamic State was established. It was killing people, it was beheading people, it was throwing people off buildings, it was kidnapping and raping Yazidi women. All of this was going on and you chose to come to this place.
- [06:21]
Hannah Ericsson
So initially we heard, obviously they're very harsh in the way they deal with their prisoners. I was not aware of the Yazidi thing in the beginning, at the time or the people being front of the buildings. We didn't witness any of this. We knew they were very extreme.
- [06:37]
Ola Guerin
The future of this camp and of the families here isn't a problem just for Syria. There are about 2,000 foreigners here. Many are Westerners from countries including Britain and France and America. The Kurds are concerned that some of those here are a security risk. Many of their countries don't want them back for exactly the same reason.
- [07:04]
Nick Miles
Ola Guerin reporting from Syria. In Argentina, it seems that voters have largely decided to give the thumbs up to President Xavier Melaye's policy of cutting state spending. He took office two years ago, promising a shock therapy of budget cuts and deregulation. He wasn't directly up for re election in Sunday's elections. They were midterm contests for half of Argentina's lower Chamber of Deputies, as well as a third of the Senate. Our correspondent Ione Wells is in Buenos Aires.
- [07:39]
Ione Wells
Here at the hotel in Buenos Aires where Javier Milei has been watching the result. His supporters have been cheering this landslide victory for the president and his Libertarian coalition. His party gained six additional seats in the Senate, bringing their total to 13 and and 27 seats in the lower house of Congress, bringing their total to 64. That means his party and its allies will comfortably have a third of the lower house's seats. This was seen as a key threshold for him to reach in order for Congress to back his presidential decrees and block opposition bills. The result is also likely to, at least for now, calm financial markets that had been jittery about how sustainable his economic program was. Donald Trump had also made it clear that a $20 billion currency swap lifeline the US had offered Argentina had hinged on Javier Milei's political success.
- [08:27]
Nick Miles
Ione Wells in Buenos Aires next to Paris, where the French authorities have made arrests in connection to last week's theft of Crown Jewels from the Louvre museum. One of the suspects was detained at Charles de Gaulle airport, while the other was arrested in northern Paris. Jewels worth around $100 million were taken from the world's most visited museum last Sunday when four thieves wielding power tools broke into the building, broad daylight. Experts think abandoned objects during the Louvre theft led to the suspect's identification. Christian Flesch is a former director of the Judicial Police.
- [09:10]
Tristan Redman
The circumstances of the theft itself were rather curious since there were four individuals who arrived, then left wanting to set something on fire, but didn't and left.
- [09:19]
Nick Miles
Behind a jacket and gloves.
- [09:22]
Tristan Redman
There are many elements that the forensic police undoubtedly examined along with the Paris forensic laboratory. All of this has undoubtedly provided clues that have been decisive in identifying the people who were at the scene or who participated in the robbery.
- [09:36]
Nick Miles
Our Europe editor, Katja Adler told my colleague Celia Hatton, more about the people who were arrested.
- [09:42]
Ione Wells
What we don't know is whether indeed they are two of the four robbers or two people connected to the robberies. What French media reports say is that both men arrested are known to the French police in connection to what's being described as previous sophisticated robberies. Other suspects are still at large. You have more than 100 detectives who are said to be working on the case, considering that, that the men apprehended were connected with sophisticated robberies. I mean, on the one hand, yes, an audacious robbery. I mean, incredible. Broad daylight, put up a ladder normally used for, you know, house removals, furniture removals, glass cutting, inside access, these precious crown jewels, mainly linked to Napoleon iii, out on the ladder, on mopeds across the city of Paris. But then those mopeds were tracked by CCTV cameras. They left. As we've heard, all this DNA evidence aside, that doesn't seem very sophisticated. So it is a curious affair. It's ignited imaginations across the world. Social media has gone wild, mocking the heist. And it's embarrassing for the Louvre, which, you know, is the most visited museum in the world. It's embarrassing for the, for the French author because it also brings to light the fact that French museums are often targeted because, you know, security is underfunded compared to, say, French banks or, you know, high end jewelry stores here in Paris.
- [11:10]
Ola Guerin
And Katya, of course, what about the.
- [11:12]
Davina Gupta
Fate of the jewels?
- [11:13]
Ione Wells
It was quite a sloppy getaway in that, you know, at least one of the items fell out of the bag. What it's thought is, is that what the robbers will have wanted to do is to break up the jewels to take off the precious jewels. Maybe make them smaller, sell them off in smaller p. And when it comes to the precious metals to melt them down, we don't know whether that's already been done. And so yes, they could still be recovered in theory, but also in some cases it may be too late.
- [11:41]
Nick Miles
Katja Adler in Paris. In Sweden, a handful of mechanics are taking on one of the world's richest companies. The strike at Tesla's workshops has now reached its second anniversary. It's a clash of ideologies in which each side has much at stake. And after two years, there's no prospect of a resolution. As Tim Mansell reports.
- [12:05]
Tristan Redman
I've just arrived in uppsala. It's a 40 minute train ride from Stockholm, the capital of Sweden. I'm on my way out to meet Hannah Ericsson and her brother Conrad. They're both Tesla technicians and they're both out on strike. If you're union says you go on strike, then you go on strike. Konrad Eriksson is 29. He used to work for a truck company, but his sister Hannah persuaded him to join Tesla. Konrad, you went out on strike on the first day. Tell me why you did that. First and foremost, because I believe in the Swedish model, that you should have a balance between the employer and the employees. In Sweden, the majority of workers are members of a union. The union negotiates their pay and conditions to reach what's called a collective agreement. But in Sweden, Tesla has shown little interest in negotiating with the EF Matal union. The union's president is Marie Nilsson.
- [13:07]
Hannah Ericsson
We tried to sit down with the company and discuss collective agreement, but they wouldn't respond. And we got the impression that they tried to hide away or not discuss this with us.
- [13:22]
Tristan Redman
When the strike began, Hannah, who's 33, was working front of house for Tesla. She found herself in a tricky position. On the one hand, she wanted to do her job to the best of her ability. On the other hand, she supported the strike.
- [13:36]
Hannah Ericsson
I wanted a collective agreement. I wasn't comfortable saying that out loud and I could definitely not tell that to the customers. But I also had to do my job.
- [13:48]
Tristan Redman
Then Hannah changed jobs and became a technician. That meant she could join the union and that meant she could join the strike.
- [13:57]
Hannah Ericsson
It was scary, but it was also a relief because now I can finally say out loud what I actually believe in.
- [14:03]
Tristan Redman
About 70 of Tesla's mechanics are on strike, but they haven't succeeded in closing Tesla's workshops, partly because not all their colleagues joined them and partly because Tesla has employed other mechanics to take the place of those who walked out. This Says Herman Bender, who works at a union funded think tank Arena Idea in Stockholm is something no Swedish employer would do.
- [14:29]
Chris Sabatini
That's a dimension that's important to understand in this dispute. It's not only a dispute between an employer and a union, but it's also a conflict between the Swedish model and an American corporate culture which is more authoritarian and more managerial.
- [14:48]
Tristan Redman
Tesla's chief executive Elon Musk has made clear his distaste for unions. Here he is speaking at a New York times event in 2023. I disagree with the idea of unions.
- [14:59]
Chris Sabatini
But perhaps for a reason that is.
- [15:01]
Tristan Redman
Different than people may expect, which is I just don't like anything which creates kind of a lords and peasants sort of thing. And I think the unions naturally try to create negativity in a company and create. This is not the general view. In Sweden, where most employers also support the idea of collective agreement, Tesla has declined to speak to the BBC about the strike. The company may fear that an agreement with Swedish workers would strengthen the hand of the unions in the US where Tesla employs tens of thousands. For Swedes like Hannah Ericsson, there's the fear that giving in to Tesla could lead to a gradual erosion of the Swedish model.
- [15:45]
Hannah Ericsson
We are about 70 people ready to defend it for as long as it takes because I want my children to have a fair workplace.
- [15:55]
Nick Miles
That report was by Tim Mansell. Still to come, at least one or.
- [16:01]
Hannah Ericsson
Two walls and the minaret are damaged. That's all I know. But I do know that the Al Amari mosque has been restored over centuries, many times and I think it can be restored again.
- [16:14]
Nick Miles
Rebuilding some of Gaza's threatened ancient treasures. US Venezuelan relations appear to be deteriorating fast. The USS Gravely has just been added to the ever growing list of US warships floating off the coast of Venezuela, stoking fears that a full scale land invasion could happen. America says its conducting a war against drug traffickers. But Venezuela's Attorney General Tarek William Saab, who's a close ally of President Nicolas Maduro, says that's rubbish.
- [16:53]
Tristan Redman
This is not an issue of democracy, it's about taking away Venezuela's gold, oil, copper and iron. Venezuela is one of the richest countries on the planet. These aren't threats to supposedly seek regime change in a democracy out of nowhere. No, it's to seize our country's natural resources and turn Venezuela into a US colony. And obviously our people aren't going to accept it now because they don't accept being robbed. They're going to murderer people. I think the world has to wake up.
- [17:22]
Nick Miles
My colleague Lise de Set asked Chris Sabatini, senior fellow for Latin America at the London based think tank Chatham House, what's on President Trump's agenda?
- [17:31]
Chris Sabatini
The Trump administration is trying to scare the military into defecting and moving Maduro and his top ministers to pave the way, potentially for a transition. Now, whether that could happen, given the levels of corruption, which the Trump administration is correct, are there, it would be a difficult call. There probably will be land strikes, but it's difficult to imagine the US Will invade.
- [17:51]
Ione Wells
You mentioned about the defections. There's been this huge bounty that's been offered. Nobody's taken it up as far as we can see. And of course, the Venezuelans, the government points to this and said, see, nobody's interested in collaborating with the US that is not true.
- [18:06]
Chris Sabatini
The truth is that the Maduro government, and this is actually the flaw in the Trump administration's plan, quite frankly, is that the government is deeply complicit in all levels of corruption, whether it's illicit gold mining, cocaine trafficking, human trafficking and money laundering. So since they're all deeply complicit, it's really unlikely. And the fact that defection for past military officers has brought a very high cost. They've been jailed, their families have been jailed. One former officer actually was killed and dismembered in Chile. So it's a very difficult regime to break from because it is a brutal, repressive, corrupt regime.
- [18:39]
Ione Wells
Can you visualize some kind of invasion, some kind of military activity that could possibly succeed?
- [18:45]
Chris Sabatini
A full invasion is very unlikely. Venezuela is a country of 28 million people, and in very difficult terrain. You also have a number of criminal groups that are engaged in all sorts of illicit activities that would obviously fight back as well. And you have multiple urban centers. So it would certainly not be an easy campaign. And as we know from Trump's campaign in 2016, he's against forever wars. And what he would be doing is really opening up a real can of worms in terms of trying to put the country back together. The hope, I'm assuming, is to launch a few drones or missiles, maybe strike some airport. Maybe, if they really want to be risky, drop a few missiles on Fortuna, which is where Nicolas Maduro lives, and maybe take out a few military barracks. I think that's on the more extreme end of the escalation. But, yes, I think we will be seeing land strikes soon, but no invasion. It's going to be interesting to see how they get out of this. At a certain point, if the military doesn't defect, Trump is going to have to declare a victory in some way and they may end up going back to the negotiating table. But quite frankly, the Maduro government in the past has shown little willingness to actually negotiate, certainly concede power. The question is, will this be enough to bring them back in earnest to the negotiating table?
- [19:53]
Nick Miles
Chris Sabatini talking to Lise Doucet. India and China have resumed direct flights five years after they were suspended. They stopped at first because of the COVID pandemic, but the flights didn't start again due to deadly clashes between the two armies on the disputed Himalayan border a few months later. Now a passenger flight from the eastern city of Kolkata has landed in the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou. One of the 180 passengers on board the special Indigo Airlines flight was Jacinta Sureka, a trustee from St. Joan's School of Kolkata. She says she's waited a long time to make this journey to China.
- [20:36]
Davina Gupta
We've got a few partnerships in China, and because there were no direct flights.
- [20:41]
Hannah Ericsson
Things have been quite difficult for our students to travel. And we've been now teaching Mandarin in.
- [20:46]
Davina Gupta
The school for the past two and a half years. And the partnership that we're going to.
- [20:49]
Hannah Ericsson
Sign is with a university in Shenzhen called Shenzhen University.
- [20:53]
Davina Gupta
This partnership is more to do with language and cultural training.
- [20:57]
Nick Miles
I asked our global affairs reporter Ambrasan Etarajan how important this development is for India China relations.
- [21:05]
Tristan Redman
It is another step towards normalization of ties between these two Asian giants. It is the first direct flight to mainland China. As you know, India and China have a very strong trade. The bilateral trade stands at about $130 billion. It's the second biggest trading partner after the US so that means you have thousands of people, businessmen and traders going to China, especially mainland China. And India depends heavily on China for pharmaceuticals, cars, spare parts, you name anything, it comes from China. And the trade deficit is like about $100 billion. So it is a good news for business travelers because they were taking detour, taking like a transit route via Singapore or Kuala Lumpur and other places. And also for students. There are about 25,000 students, many of them doing medicine. So for India, what they're saying is it will help people to people contact and boost trade relations as well.
- [22:03]
Nick Miles
AMBRASAN etirajan, the breakneck speed with which Donald Trump negotiates and renegotiates trade deals around the world can be hard keep up with. But at the heart of each deal are industries that are being forced to adapt. For India's billion dollar carpet industry, the 50% tariff, it's been facing since August is proving crippling. Nearly 100,000 people have lost their jobs in its major carpet hub Badoi in The North. The BBC's Davina Gupta reports.
- [22:39]
Davina Gupta
This sound has been been a Constant Companion for 26 year old Anil Maurya for over a decade. He's using a handheld electric machine and weaving a blue colored flower from a woollen yarn on a carpet. He's paid daily wages by local contractors to make carpets that travel mostly to America. And now Trump's tariffs have dealt a heavy blow.
- [23:09]
Tristan Redman
Two months ago I was making $180 a day. Now I barely make 80. My sister has had to drop out of college. She's getting married now. We've taken a loan to cover the expenses. I've never had to borrow money before and I'm scared if I fail to repay it, they'll take my land. Where will we go?
- [23:31]
Davina Gupta
Well, Anil tells me if the situation doesn't improve, he'll have to leave home and family to search for work in this city. And he's not the only one. There are over 3 million people who are doing similar work of carpet weaving and are facing many more difficulties in this region. In another home I meet 45 year old Prema Devi, weaving carpets entirely by hands. I'm sitting beside Prema in her cramped workspace and my back is hungry and there's barely room to move around here there's only one window for light and air and Prema is sitting with three other weavers on a slim wooden bench. Her hands are constantly moving on the loom and it's 4pm now. She's been at this place from 8am Our situation is really bad. We are not making any money. We got work after 10 days. We have been surviving on chili salt and bread. Her four children depend on what she earns. But with so little work coming in, she is thinking of giving it up. If this continues and we don't make money, we will have to close the loom and work as farm laborers. An estimated 100,000 people have lost their jobs in this region in the past two months and those still trying to work are desperate for orders. But carpet manufacturers say their hands are tied. Among them is Aslam Naboo.
- [25:17]
Tristan Redman
Our buyers have asked us to hold their orders until there's clarity on the US tariffs. This puts us in a very difficult position. Each carpet involves at least 22 separate processes, which means 22 or more people are employed in making a single piece. If these high tariffs continue, the industry could shrink by 30 to 40%, impacting tens of thousands of workers, especially in the villages.
- [25:44]
Davina Gupta
And that's worrying for the industry. For centuries, families here have passed down the carpet weaving skills from one generation to the next. And now, as tariff politics continue between India and the US it's not only their livelihoods, but the very legacy of their craft is at stake.
- [26:04]
Nick Miles
Davina Gupta reporting. Last week, when a massive global Amazon outage caused large parts of the Internet to stop working, attention was focused on Loudoun county in the US State of Virginia. The area is home to the world's biggest number of data storage centers, vast processing facilities which are being built to power the Internet and artificial intelligence. The businesses contribute billions to the local economy, but the centers dominate the landscape. They also create a humming or buzzing noise which people who live close to them say is ruining their quality of life. Anna Foege went to Loudoun county to hear what it's like to live in the shadow of the huge buildings without ever present bus.
- [26:50]
Asma Khalid
Loudoun county was once filled with farmland and developments of homes until a few years ago when data centers owned by companies like Amazon moved in. All you see is huge industrial concrete buildings, and trapped in the middle are thousands of the county's residents. I'm on my way to meet Greg Pirio, who bought his home 14 years ago. When he looks out his townhouse window. What once was a green forestry is now a large blue building.
- [27:16]
Tristan Redman
That's the data center that they built. And you can see how mammoth it is.
- [27:19]
Chris Sabatini
And sometimes there's a whole other decimal.
- [27:21]
Tristan Redman
Level that can occur that makes it even louder.
- [27:25]
Asma Khalid
Loudoun county is the wealthiest county in the U.S. reaping the benefits from its closeness to the U.S. capitol, Washington D.C. and its many data centers. But these centers are not the best neighbors, Greg says on top of the impact on the environment, their quality of life is severely impacted.
- [27:44]
Tristan Redman
I have some neighbors who said that.
- [27:46]
Chris Sabatini
They get headaches from it. A neighbor had to put a mattress over his window to keep the sound out so he could sleep.
- [27:54]
Asma Khalid
Greg lives in an area that has the most data centers in the world. More than two thirds of the global Internet traffic passes through it.
- [28:02]
Tristan Redman
It comes down to when the Internet was in its infancy.
- [28:06]
Asma Khalid
This is Thomas Hyslip, a cybersecurity expert from the University of South Florida. He knows why Northern Virginia attracts so many data centers.
- [28:16]
Tristan Redman
Northern Virginia was really an epicenter for.
- [28:18]
Hannah Ericsson
The growth of the Internet.
- [28:19]
Tristan Redman
And so naturally they have the talent, they have the people already there.
- [28:23]
Hannah Ericsson
It was just easier to make them there.
- [28:25]
Asma Khalid
In addition to this, tax breaks and government infrastructure in Northern Virginia create perfect conditions for the data centers. With tech companies racing to dominate the AI sector, places like Loudoun will continue to grow. And the industry is also getting a boost by President Donald Trump, who plans to loosen regulations around AI infrastructure. For the residents who are forced to live next to these centers, there's not much else to do but move away or fight against it. So far, with little success.
- [28:57]
Nick Miles
Anna Fakey when it comes to the future of Gaza, if peace is ever agreed, the priority will be rebuilding basic infrastructure like the hospitals and schools. But what about the sites that tell the story of Gaza's history and Palestinian identity? My colleague Edward Sturton discussed the importance of Gaza's heritage with the Palestinian writer Raja Shahade and his wife, the academic Penny Johnson.
- [29:26]
Hannah Ericsson
The Alomri Mosque, which started as a Philistine site, then was a Byzantine church, then was a 7th century mosque. It gives a sense of what Gaza was, this crossroads of civilization, that you're not a person stuck in a building that you cannot move. You're a person that has a civilization that you can think about, you can draw from. And I think that's what these sites can give people.
- [29:54]
Tristan Redman
And just staying with the Great Mosque in Gaza, in Gaza City, do we know at all how it has survived, how much damage has been done there?
- [30:03]
Hannah Ericsson
There's quite a lot of damage, but of course, we've just seen the photos. We've had no access. Except for the intrepid Palestinian journalists who are sending these photos, nobody has been able to visit. It needs archaeologists, it needs restorers. At least one or two walls and the minaret are damaged. That's all I know. But know that the El Omari Mosque has been restored over centuries, many times, and I think it can be restored again.
- [30:32]
Tristan Redman
The other place was the Church of St. Hilarion, is that right? Tell us a little bit about that.
- [30:36]
Hannah Ericsson
It's actually a monastery site. It's the only UNESCO World Heritage site in Gaza, but UNESCO has put it on a sort of danger of destruction list. It's an important site. Beautiful mosaics. I don't know if they're still there, but Raja was also talking about St. Porphyrius, which is the oldest Christian church, I think, in the world. In the world, which is partially damaged in Gaza City. It's sort of good fortune that one of the great archaeological collections in Gaza moved to Paris before the war for an exhibit. So these important artifacts are saved. One of the great flukes of fortune.
- [31:13]
Tristan Redman
Well, you know, the people in Gaza now are so involved in trying to survive day to day that I don't think they are thinking of the bigger questions. And I think they are just concentrating on survival at this point, which is, of course, absolutely understandable. But you think it's important that some of these places and the things associated with them in the longer term are preserved. Yeah, because they are not only for the Gazans and for the Palestinians, they are a world heritage thing. They are important for the world because Gaza is a place that has been inhabited for 3,000 years continuously. It's a very important place historically and universally.
- [31:52]
Nick Miles
The Palestinian writer Raja Shahada and his wife Penny Johnson, talking there to the BBC's Edward Sturton. And that's all from us for now. But there will be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later on. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcast. You can also find us on X@ BBC World Service. Use the hashtag globalnewsport. This edition was mixed by Derek Clark and produced by Paul Day and Wendy Urquhart. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Nick Miles. And until next time, goodbye.
- [32:38]
Asma Khalid
America is changing and so is the world.
- [32:42]
Tristan Redman
But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.
- [32:50]
Asma Khalid
I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, DC.
- [32:52]
Tristan Redman
I'm Tristan Redman in London. And this is the Global Story.
- [32:57]
Asma Khalid
Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.
- [33:02]
Tristan Redman
Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.