Global News Podcast: Gaza Conflict—Two Years On (September 30, 2025)

Podcast: Global News Podcast
Host: BBC World Service (John Donnison)
Guests: Yoland Nell (Jerusalem), Rushdie Abu Alouf (Gaza/Istanbul), Jeremy Bowen (London)
Date: September 30, 2025

Episode Overview

This special edition marks two years since the onset of the most devastating phase of the Gaza conflict, which began on October 7, 2023. Host John Donnison convenes a panel of veteran BBC correspondents to reflect on the events, humanitarian impact, historical context, and shifting public opinions regarding the war. The episode also features listener questions addressing terminology, prospects for peace, and broader regional implications.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. The Outset of October 7—Personal Recollections

• Unique Gravity of October 7th
  • Yoland Nell recalls the disbelief and immediacy of the attack, realizing “this was something very different.”

    “My main memory of that day is my own real disbelief as the words were coming out of my mouth, telling people the news. ... It was immediately clear that it was on a whole new scale. … The kind of rule book that we'd been sort of operating on here had to be ripped up.”
    — Yoland Nell, [02:56]

  • Rushdie Abu Alouf describes the ordinary start to the day in Gaza, quickly shattered by rocket fire and the realization of a large incursion.

    “Saturday is a normal working day in Gaza. So I was about to drive the kids to school… suddenly there was rockets flying from all over Gaza. … Within 10, 15 minutes, I realized that this is big.”
    — Rushdie Abu Alouf, [04:06]

  • Jeremy Bowen was in Kyiv, Ukraine, reacting to office messages about the attack. He describes arriving in southern Israel and witnessing the aftermath in border kibbutzim.

    “It was like nothing I'd seen in this conflict.”
    — Jeremy Bowen, [07:38]

2. Humanitarian Impact — Gaza and Israel After Two Years

• Gaza’s Enduring Suffering

  • Rushdie Abu Alouf highlights the ongoing hardship, displacement, and trauma faced by Palestinians, using his own family’s story as a microcosm:

    “My father moved recently from Gaza City into Khan Yunis. It took him 22 hours to drive about 20 km in the back of a truck with some of his belongings… My father is 76 years old. … He was born in a tent … and now he lives in a half-destroyed building.”
    — Rushdie Abu Alouf, [08:22]

  • Psychological toll and persistent guilt for those forced to leave, including Rushdie himself.

• Israeli Trauma

  • Yoland Nell underlines the societal wound in Israel, the enduring grief, and the centrality of the hostage crisis in public consciousness:

    “It was the deadliest day for Jews since the Holocaust. And there is still a widespread feeling … that they believe the world has moved on and that they have forgotten… the atrocities of 7 October.”
    — Yoland Nell, [11:39]

  • Divisions within Israel over military response and prospects for hostages’ release.

3. Historical Roots & Differing Narratives

• Dueling Historical Perspectives
  • The panel explores how Israelis and Palestinians interpret the war’s origins—Israelis viewing Hamas’s actions as unprovoked, Palestinians seeing deep historical continuity dating to the Nakba in 1948.

    “There is a deep rooted conflict here, an unresolved conflict that doesn't just go back to the independence of Israel in 1948. … It goes back more than a century.”
    — Jeremy Bowen, [13:37]

  • Poignant quote from Israeli politician Avram Burg about the shattering of “the vaccination against our history” ([16:09]).

4. Regional Spillover & Global Ramifications

• Broader Middle East Instability
  • The conflict’s regional effects: Hezbollah's direct engagement, Yemen’s Houthis’ involvement, destabilization in Syria, and Israeli-Iranian confrontations.

    “The whole picture in the region has been transformed by the war.”
    — Jeremy Bowen, [18:10]

  • International pressure on Israel: ICC arrest warrants, genocide case, and talk of exclusion from international organizations and events.

5. Media Coverage & Language: Impartiality and Sensitivity

• Listener Question: Why Not “Genocide”? Why Not “Terrorists”?
  • Yoland Nell explains BBC’s editorial policy requiring careful, attributed use of loaded terms like “genocide” and “terrorist,” focusing instead on descriptive language.

    “Our guidelines are supposed to be for our coverage all around the world where we're catering for a diversity of audiences. … If you look at some particular words that say, you know, terrorism, … there is no internationally agreed definition… and that's why we choose attribution.”
    — Yoland Nell, [21:13]

6. Palestinian Support for Hamas—Divisions and Perspectives

• Listener Question from Israel
  • Rushdie notes a gap between Gaza and West Bank perspectives, explaining public divisions over Hamas, blaming the group for lack of preparation and the heavy price paid in Gaza.

    “There is a huge division where there is two pictures: … the people inside Gaza who lived this and the people outside who are watching the bigger picture.”
    — Rushdie Abu Alouf, [23:05]

  • Highlights the “trend” of Palestinian solidarity abroad, contrasting it with the daily survival in Gaza.

7. Prospects for Peace: Two-State and One-State Solutions

• Listener Question from the US
  • Jeremy Bowen reflects on the fading hopes for a two-state solution—“an empty slogan”—and the improbability of a single democratic state.

    “If you don't have a Palestinian state, what do you have? … If you then had a democracy which with half the population not being Jews, being Palestinians, well then they might see oblivion down that road. … I think the chances of a one state solution… are vanishingly unlikely. And… a two state solution is also highly unlikely.”
    — Jeremy Bowen, [27:02]

  • Suggests likely continuation of occupation and conflict without a diplomatic breakthrough.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Rushdie Abu Alouf on Family and Displacement:

  “My father is 76 years old. He was born in a tent … now he lives in a like half a destroyed building. This is just a story of one person reflecting 2 million people who have the same situation.” ([08:22])

• Jeremy Bowen on the Weight of History:

  “These are historic as well as deeply tragic and dreadful times.” ([16:45])

• Yoland Nell on Israel’s Ongoing Pain:

  “Israel's a small country and I would say it's still extremely raw, the grief and the pain from that day two years ago.” ([11:39])

• Panel’s Sobering Outlook:

  “I really hate to be the bringer of bad tidings, but having reported on this for many, many years, I have not seen a worse time in terms of the prospects for a decent future for people.”
  — Jeremy Bowen, [29:23]

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | [00:00] | Introduction & Panelist Backgrounds | | [02:56] | Panelists Describe October 7, 2023—Personal Accounts | | [08:22] | Life in Gaza Two Years On—Rushdie’s Testimony | | [11:39] | Israel’s National Trauma and Divisions | | [13:37] | Historical Context of the Conflict—Contrasting Narratives | | [17:12] | Regional Spillover & International Impact | | [21:13] | Language and Media Policy—BBC’s Approach to “Genocide” and “Terrorist” Terminology | | [23:05] | Palestinian Support for Hamas—Social and Political Divisions | | [27:02] | Prospects for One- or Two-State Solutions—Political Analysis | | [29:23] | Future Prospects—Uncertainty, Radicalization, and Hopes for Ceasefire |

Tone & Conclusion

The episode maintains the BBC’s measured, analytical tone—seeking impartiality while giving voice to the deep emotional and historical wounds on both sides. Accounts from correspondents are threaded with personal reflections, providing unique depth and immediacy. The enduring trauma, humanitarian catastrophe, and political deadlock in the region are laid bare, ending on a somber note that tempers hope for peace with the hard realities of the present.

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