Has the Ukraine conflict reached a turning point?

Summary

Global News Podcast: "Has the Ukraine conflict reached a turning point?"

Date: November 25, 2025
Host: Alex Ritson (BBC World Service)

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Main Theme

This episode examines the evolving diplomatic landscape of the Ukraine-Russia conflict, exploring whether recent developments signal a pivotal moment toward peace or a continuation of stalemate. The show combines on-the-ground analysis, expert interviews, and context on related global issues, ranging from international security, humanitarian crises, scientific discoveries, and cultural heritage.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ukraine Peace Negotiations: A Potential Turning Point?

• Context: A leaked US peace plan, rumored to favor Russian interests, triggered significant concern among Ukraine’s European allies. Intense diplomatic activity followed, especially from European partners seeking to shift the peace proposal in Ukraine's favor.

• US & European Response:

  • The US has carried a revised peace draft to Russia, removing explicit territorial concessions and increasing Ukraine’s allowed military size, signaling Western efforts to adjust the terms.
  • Ongoing confusion and rapidly changing dynamics underscore the difficulty in bringing parties into alignment.

• Russian Reaction:

  • Russia, represented by Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, disapproves of perceived European interference, preferring to deal exclusively with the US.
  • There is Kremlin anxiety that the diplomatic process may not be swinging in their favor as much as initially hoped.

• Key Quote:

  "You had this plan unveiled in a rather clumsy fashion, leaked late last week, an American proposal which many people really saw as a Russian wish list, possibly even drafted by the Russians."
  — Paul Adams (Diplomatic Correspondent) [02:28]

• Summary: The peace process is ongoing but fragile, with both sides maneuvering to secure advantageous terms while European powers try to steer the negotiations away from excessive concessions to Russia.

Timestamps:

• [01:50] – Introduction to Ukraine peace process discussion
• [02:28] – Paul Adams on the diplomatic confusion and European response
• [04:09] – Analysis of Russian concerns and the latest changes to the peace draft

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2. Should Russia Be Welcomed Back to the G7?

• Discussion with Kaya Kallas (EU Foreign Policy Chief):

  • Firmly opposes Russia’s return; stresses the need for accountability due to ongoing aggression and violations of international law.
  • Asserts that Russia’s diplomatic overtures stem from internal pressures and the effectiveness of Western economic sanctions.
  • Advocates for Russian “concessions,” emphasizing that any lasting peace should safeguard Ukraine against future aggression.

• Key Quote:

  "We can't go back to business as usual. I mean, how can you possibly imagine that? All the destruction, all the killing that they have done and also, I mean, all the breaches of the international law."
  — Kaya Kallas [05:36]

• On US Diplomacy & Trump's Motives:

  • Trump desires a swift resolution, but may risk pursuing "peace at any cost."
  • Kallas underscores the difference between hasty compromise and sustainable, deterrence-based peace.

• Key Quote:

  "If we want to end this for good, we really, really need to have concessions on Russian side… the point shouldn't be how to make it easier for Russia to invade again… but actually how to make it impossible for Russia to invade again."
  — Kaya Kallas [07:22]

Timestamps:

• [05:14] – Kallas on G7
• [06:57] – Kallas and host discuss US diplomacy, Trump's approach

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3. Other Major Global Stories

Nigerian School Kidnappings

• Over 300 children and staff abducted; frustration mounts over ineffective government response.
• The local bishop and community express fear, trauma, and skepticism about new government promises (such as police recruitment and intelligence cooperation with the US).
• Kidnappings framed as part of a longstanding, systematic security crisis.
• Key Quote:

  "Not much, not much has been done. What we on our own part, what we have done is collection of these names so that we know exactly who are those who are affected who are missing."
  — Bishop Boulous Johanna [08:48]

Timestamps:

• [08:13] – Focus shifts to Nigeria
• [08:48] – Bishop’s interview
• [09:35] – Africa correspondent update

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Human Brain Development Study

• New Cambridge research finds the brain has five distinct developmental eras, with "adult mode" beginning in the early thirties.
• Implications for understanding mental health vulnerabilities and neurodevelopmental disorders over a person’s life.
• Key Quote:

  "We're hoping this kind of sets the stage for what we expect the brain to be doing at different points."
  — Dr. Alexa Moseley [13:07]

Timestamps:

• [12:29] – Introduction to study
• [13:07] – Interview with Dr. Moseley

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US Travel Civility Campaign

• US government urges polite behavior at airports during Thanksgiving travel surge.
• Mixed public reaction, with some noting that government could do more to remedy systemic travel delays and disruptions.
• Lighthearted references to travel dress codes and viral misbehavior on flights.

Timestamps:

• [14:17] – Civility campaign segment
• [15:19] – Comments on air travel and dress codes

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China’s Space Crew Rescue

• Technical malfunction left the new space crew without a return capsule.
• Emergency launch successfully restored safe egress, highlighting persistent dangers in space travel and the risks of international space competition.
• Key Quote:

  "That rocket wasn’t supposed to go till next year. What if it hadn't been ready yet?... it still is very dangerous in space."
  — Stephen McDonnell [23:37]

Timestamps:

• [20:49] – Story intro
• [21:42] – McDonnell narrates rescue details
• [23:37] – The ongoing danger of space missions

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UN Femicide Report

• 50,000 women/girls killed by family or partner globally last year—one every 10 minutes.
• Progress on reducing violence is dangerously slow despite decades of UN commemoration and advocacy.
• Emphasis on need for better data and enhanced prevention.
• Key Quote:

  "For more than two decades, the needle has barely moved with rates of intimate partner violence showing only a 0.2 annual decline."
  — Sarah Hendricks [24:49]

Timestamps:

• [24:12] – Introduction
• [24:49] – Hendricks interview

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Southeast Asia Scam Centers Crackdown

• UN estimates scam centers generate up to $40bn annually.
• Recent military action in Myanmar disrupts operations and enables escape of trafficked foreign workers.
• Motivation for Myanmar’s crackdown remains murky; suspected links to both self-interest and pressure from China.

Timestamps:

• [26:28] – Segment begins
• [27:10] – Ed Butler's field report

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San Jose Galleon Treasure Discovery

• Colombian scientists have retrieved artifacts (a cannon, coins, and porcelain) from the historic shipwreck, continuing debates over heritage vs economic value.
• Archaeologists oppose extracting the full treasure, prioritizing preservation and research.
• Key Quote:

  "We are not working because of the economic value of what we have there... but because of what they can tell us about the people who lived in that time."
  — Mariana Caruya [31:45]

Timestamps:

• [29:23] – Intro to treasure segment
• [30:19] – Caruya on significance of artifacts

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Ukraine Peace Talks:
  "Listeners can be forgiven for wondering what on earth is going on... We've been here before, we saw it in the wake of the Alaska summit between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin."
  — Paul Adams [02:28]

• On Regional Security:
  "Kidnappings are not isolated incidents. They are part of what they call a systematic pattern in this region and they want to see more done."
  — Maini Jones [10:31]

• On Scientific Discovery:
  "From 9 to 32, we're actually seeing that flip in the brain's becoming more efficient."
  — Dr. Alexa Moseley [13:07]

• On Feminicide Statistics:
  "Femicides do not emerge suddenly. They are in fact the fatal final act in a deeply egregious continuum of violence that is visible, but it is too often ignored."
  — Sarah Hendricks [24:49]

• On Cultural Preservation vs. Treasure Hunting:
  "The things that we have there are not important because of... economic value... but because of what they can tell us."
  — Mariana Caruya [31:45]

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Conclusion

This edition of the Global News Podcast skillfully threads together a variety of pressing international stories, with a focus on the Ukraine-Russia negotiations and what could be a diplomatic inflection point. The episode balances urgent geopolitical developments with ongoing humanitarian crises, scientific advances, and cultural debates—all reflecting a world in complex, often tumultuous transition.

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For feedback: Email [e-mail] or find BBC World Service on social media using #globalnewspod.

Transcript

[Alex Ritson]

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.

[Asma Khalid]

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[Kaya Kallas]

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[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

This is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Alex Ritson and at 18 hours GMT on Tuesday 25th November, these are our main stories. US officials told the BBC Ukraine is ready to sign a peace deal, but Russia signals it could reject a modified plan. The bishop in charge of the latest Nigerian kidnap school says the authorities have done little to rescue his missing students. UN figures suggest a woman or girl is killed by a partner or family member somewhere in the world every 10 minutes. Also in this podcast, air travel is.

[Kaya Kallas]

A miracle of American ingenuity.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

The US Government tells holiday travelers to dress and behave properly at airports. Could we be at a turning point with the war in Ukraine? President Trump has already said he's optimistic and US officials are now suggesting Ukraine could be ready to sign a peace deal that leaves Russia. Can Moscow be persuaded to agree? Or will this latest diplomatic effort falter as others have done before? I spoke to our diplomatic correspondent, Paul Adams, who began by explaining how we got to this point.

[Paul Adams]

Well, it is a confusing picture, Alex, and I think listeners can be forgiven for wondering what on earth is going on. You had this plan unveiled in a rather clumsy fashion, leaked late last week, an American proposal which many people really saw as a Russian wish list, possibly even drafted by the Russians. That led to a sort of sense of panic among Ukraine's European backers. We had a flurry of activity over the weekend, and by the end of yesterday, you had the Ukrainian leader, President Zelenskyy saying that he thought that things were kind of moving in the right direction. I think we have seen a very concerted effort, especially by the Europeans, to modify, not to dismiss the American initiative because frankly, standing in Donald Trump's way, they have concluded, is not the way to go. And in fact, the British Prime Minister, Keir Starmer was talking about this, saying that there were elements of the original 28 point draft that came out last week that, that were seen as unacceptable, but that there was much that could be worked on. And so the idea is to try and influence American thinking. We've been here before, we saw it in the wake of the Alaska summit between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. We're seeing it again now with the Europeans trying to steer the process in a direction more favorable to Kyiv. And that's really where we are now. At the end of the meeting in Geneva over the weekend, a new draft has emerged. We don't know exactly what it looks like, but the Americans have taken it to show it to the Russians in Abu Dhabi and we're waiting to see what comes of that.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Have we heard from Russia?

[Paul Adams]

Well, Sergei Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister, has joined a chorus of Russian officials saying that they do not like any European meddling in this. Anything that smacks of a European effort to get in the way of, of a process that the Russians thought they were conducting just solely with the Americans. That is regarded as deeply worrying for the Kremlin. In terms of what has changed, I think clearly the Europeans have tried to influence, especially the stuff about Ukraine being told to give up territory in order for there to be a peace process. The European draft, which emerged over the weekend, stripped all reference to territorial concessions and said that everything had to be negotiated. It also changed the size of Ukraine's military up from the 600,000 stated in the original draft last week to 800,000 and plenty of other changes too, but it is very much a work in progress. But I think now the Russians feel that maybe things are not heading in their direction.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Paul Adams so where might these negotiations leave Russia in the long term? After years out in the cold, could Russia be brought back from the international wilderness? My colleague Anna Foster spoke to the EU's foreign policy chief, Kaya Kallas, and asked her if Russia should be allowed to rejoin the G7, making it the G8 again.

[Kaya Kallas]

No, definitely not. We can't go back to business as usual. I mean, how can you possibly imagine that? All the destruction, all the killing that they have done and also, I mean, all the breaches of the international law. And then we just look away and say, oh, it's not. We just go and continue as before. I think it is important to keep in mind why, you know, Russia is making a good face towards United States again, because they are actually under a lot of pressure. They want us to see that and think that, you know, Ukraine is under a lot of pressure and they can't outlast. But actually, if you look at the facts, if you look how Russia's economy is doing, if you look how the sanctions on oil are working, if you look at the discussions that we have on the Russian frozen assets and the reparations loan, actually they are very worried that, you know, they need to get the good agreement now. That's why they are asking for the territories that they haven't even conquered militarily. That's why they are asking all these things. Our focus should be on Russia. Who is the aggressor in this case?

[Asma Khalid]

Why do you think the US and in particular Donald Trump are doing this now? Do you think he, even after all of this time, understands the Ukrainian position?

[Mariana Caruya]

No.

[Kaya Kallas]

President Trump genuinely wants peace, like also the Ukrainians and Europeans. I mean, you can't blame him for that. I think this is a very, very noble cause. Just the question is, what really brings peace and what brings long lasting and sustainable peace that we don't have, you know, future aggression?

[Asma Khalid]

And that is what for him, it's peace at any cost. Is that what he's pursuing?

[Kaya Kallas]

Well, it definitely wants to have peace and wants to have it soon. This is true. And also Ukrainians want to have peace because their people are being killed and their energy infrastructure is being bombed. But, you know, if we want to end this for good, we really, really need to have concessions on Russian side. Because if you look at those points, I mean, the point shouldn't be, you know, how to make it easier for Russia to invade again, you know, to downsize ukra, Ukrainian army and all these points, but actually how to make it impossible for Russia to invade again. And that means, you know, honoring their international obligations, you know, downsizing their nuclear, their army, their military budget. All these things are the concessions that we need to see from the Russian side.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

The EU's foreign policy chief, Kaya Kallas, there's been heavy criticism of the Nigerian authorities after hundreds of students were abducted from a school last week. More than 300 children and staff are now thought to have been kidnapped from the school in a remote part of Niger State, making it one of the worst mass abductions the country has seen. The Christian association of Nigeria, which is in charge of the school, has said the authorities have made no meaningful effort to rescue the students. Bishop Boulous Johanna is the chairman of the association.

[Alex Ritson]

Not much, not much has been done. What we on our own part, what we have done is collection of these names so that we know exactly who are those who are affected who are missing. That is what we have been doing. It will affect because people will be scared, especially the villagers like our school there now, if you notice that it was so difficult for us to get them, that is why it's so difficult to get in touch with them.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

More than 200 schoolchildren were kidnapped from the town of chibok back in 2014. The bring back our Girls movement drew global attention to those abductions. The the organisation has urged officials to stop negotiating with kidnappers and prosecute those responsible for past security failures. Africa correspondent Maini Jones, who's in Niger State, gave us this update.

[Maini Jones]

So at the moment all we know is that the search operation to find those students is ongoing here in Niger State with the governor saying that they will leave no stone left unturned to find those children. I spoke to one of the parents in the community where this happened, a village called Papiri, which is incredibly remote, very difficult to get to, and he says that three of his children were taken on Friday. They haven't heard anything about how the search is going. They're incredibly anxious because they're worried that the kids were taken in the middle of the night, wearing very little and it gets quite cool in the evenings here. They're worried they could be sick that they don't have enough to eat. So there's lots of anxiety around the search for the kids and the fact that we're not exactly sure how well it's going to be and how quickly these children will be found.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Well, that is the key point today, isn't it? The church leaders in charge of the school are accusing the authorities of doing essentially little or nothing. Is that fair for the members of.

[Maini Jones]

The community and people who in this part of the country have had to deal with this problem past decade and have that. You have these periodic seasons where you get a kind of spate of kidnappings happening. There is a lot of frustration for them. They feel like the government hasn't got a kind of comprehensive strategy to deal with this problem. You mentioned the BringBackOurGirlsMovement. They drew attention to this issue over a decade ago when the Chibok girls were taken. And they say that These latest kidnappings are not isolated incidents. They say they are part of what they call a, quote, a systematic pattern in this region and they want to see more done. It's not clear exactly what more could look like. The Nigerian government is saying that they've spoken to the American authorities. They've decided to put together a joint security venture to exchange intelligence and potentially be supplied with weapons, who've reached out to the State Department to get confirmation about this. This follows a high level meeting in Washington, D.C. between Nigerian and American officials. It's not clear that that would change the situation either, but it does signal a willingness on the Nigerian authorities to maybe look outside of their borders to try and find a solution.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

And we were talking yesterday about the plan to hire 30,000 new police officers. That can't be done overnight, can it?

[Maini Jones]

No, absolutely not. It takes a really long time. And the problem with police in Nigeria, having lived here almost seven years myself, is that they're often incredibly underpaid and that leads to issues with, you know, low morale, corruption. The government said it wants to hire 30,000 more police officers. Will they be paying these police officers more money? How will they be encouraging them to kind of stick with their duties? Because one way policemen make their money at the moment in Nigeria is protecting VIPs where they can get tips and, you know, bonuses at the end of the year. So the government has these plans, but it's not clear that they have the budgets to implement them. And that may be a challenge for them.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Aini Jones. The human brain develops over five eras, according to a new study, with adult mode not starting until the early 30s. A team from the University of Cambridge found the Brain ages in five distinct phases, with turning points at 9, 32, 66 and 83. It's the first study to identify these changes in neural wiring, tracking changes from infancy to old age. Dr. Alexa Moseley, postdoctorate research associate at Cambridge University, led the study and told us about the shifts.

[Dr. Alexa Moseley]

It's different for each point and these of course, are just averages. So around nine years old we're seeing this shift. There's quite a lot going on each one. For example, from infancy through nine years old, we're seeing the brain become less efficient. But from 9 to 32, we're actually seeing that flip in the brain's becoming more efficient. We're looking at large what we call white matter tracks, which are the big connections in the brain between different regions. And those appear to be strengthening and weakening. We know from past work that the way the brain's wired is related to important outcomes and things like neurodevelopment, mental health and neurological conditions. And what we are establishing in our study is that the brain is organizing in a distinct manner at different ages. And so this might give us some insight into why the brain might be more vulnerable to different things at different points in time. We're hoping this kind of sets the stage for what we expect the brain to be doing at different points. So, for example, we know that about two thirds of people who are going to have a mental health disorder develop that disorder before the age of 25. And from our study, we see that there's a continuous and characteristic way the brain's wiring from 9 to 32. And so the next question is, are those two things related?

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Dr. Alexa Moseley from the University of Cambridge in the U.K. now, with the U.S. holiday of Thanksgiving just around the corner, an estimated 30 million people are preparing to fly to see their relatives. And they're being told to behave themselves on board, not by their parents, but by the US Department of Transportation. Stephanie Prentice has this report.

[Paul Adams]

Some of you might have noticed that we've launched a civility campaign.

[Sean Duffy]

U.S. transportation Secretary Sean Duffy at an airport in New Jersey telling his fellow Americans to mind their manners during one of the country's busiest periods for travel.

[Paul Adams]

You might not be able to find.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

A seat as you're by your gate.

[Paul Adams]

Because of the number of flights that.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Are going out or coming in, but.

[Paul Adams]

I think we have have to think.

[Kaya Kallas]

About how do we do a better job.

[Paul Adams]

We should say please and thank you.

[Kaya Kallas]

To our pilots and to our flight attendants.

[Sean Duffy]

The comments follow the release of a promotional video from his department urging travelers to hark back to better times.

[Kaya Kallas]

Air travel is a miracle of American ingenuity. We build airports to launch a golden age of travel across the skies. We respected the dignity of air travel.

[Sean Duffy]

The video shows archived footage of neatly dressed families calmly traveling throughout previous decades. Then takes a turn to the modern day. Using footage of viral moments posted online, including bare feet being used to scroll on an in flight touchscreen, people beating each other with wet floor signs in an airport terminal, and many, many acts of violence. Along with high altitude hostility over key airline issues. Maintaining standards of dress was also suggested.

[Paul Adams]

Whether it's a pair of jeans and a decent shirt, I would encourage people to maybe dress a little better, which.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Encourages us to maybe behave a little better.

[Paul Adams]

Let's try not to wear slippers and and pajamas as we come to the airport. I think that's positive though.

[Sean Duffy]

One disgruntled passenger was quick to post that with current delays, he didn't intend to sleep on the floor of an airport wearing a three piece suit. And California Governor Gavin Newsom responded with a photo of Sean Duffy's cabinet colleague Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Walking barefoot down the aisle of a plane.

[Kaya Kallas]

Manners don't stop at the gate.

[Sean Duffy]

Some travelers welcomed the civility message when it was posted on social media. Others pointed out that it comes after months of travel chaos in the US Due to the government shutdown and a week after officials scrapped a plan to give passengers compensation for cancellations and long delays, suggesting the better behavior should come from the people who govern America.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Stephanie Prentice still to come in this podcast, what's more important? A billion dollars worth of shipwrecked treasure or the preservation of an important seabed archaeological site?

[Mariana Caruya]

The things that we have there are not important because of what they worth as economic value, you know, but because of what they can tell us.

[Asma Khalid]

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[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

It's a familiar feeling for anyone who's been waiting for their ride home and they get the news that their bus or taxi or train or whatever has broken down. So you've got to wait for the replacement service, although in this case you're several hundred kilometres up in space. The countdown and Lift off of the Shenzhou 22 spacecraft heading to the Tiangong Space Station to rescue the three stranded Chinese astronauts. The original vessel which is due to bring them down, had to be given to the previous crew after theirs got damaged by debris in space. I heard more from our correspondent in Beijing, Stephen McDonnell.

[Alex Ritson]

Perhaps the best way is for me just to go through the sequence of events so people understand how potentially dangerous this all was. So there you have three astronauts or taikonauts as they're sometimes referred to here, and they were waiting on the Tiangong Station for the relief crew to arrive. The relief crew, they turn up, they dock their vessel on the Tiangong Station and the theory is they have a Bit of a handover. And then the original crew goes back to Earth. Now, the problem is their capsule to return to Earth was damaged by a piece of debris which is struck and smashed window, apparently space junk or something along those lines. And so that capsule couldn't be used, they used the relief cruise vessel to get back to Earth, thus leaving the relief crew stuck up in Tiangong with no way to get home. Now, in theory, people might think it's not such a big deal because they aren't due to come back to Earth till next April anyway. But the problem is, what if something goes wrong with the station? What if one of them gets injured? They need a way to get out of there. And so they'll be feeling much better today because as we speak, there's been a successful launch of an unmanned rocket which has now enabled a return capsule to dock on the Tiangong Station, thus giving them a way out of there. As for the broken vessel, there's two options. One is to fix it to send it back to Earth. The other, apparently, is just to remove it from the station because it's taking up one of the docking points. That's not ideal though, because then you've got another piece of space junk flying around the Earth creating yet more debris, the type of debris which damaged it in the first place. However, for the astronauts up on that station, they'd be feeling much better right now than they were a few hours ago.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Briefly, Stephen, it is easy to forget just how dangerous what these people do is, isn't it?

[Alex Ritson]

Yeah, absolutely. Everybody takes it for granted now that especially the Chinese space program, it's very efficient. They've been able to successfully send another rocket up there. But that rocket wasn't supposed to go till next year. What if it hadn't been ready yet? What if something went wrong with that rocket? What if it didn't successfully take off? So, yes, indeed, it still is very dangerous in space. And it shows why. These competing missions, especially between the US and China, there is so much at stake in terms of what they're trying to do next. Like to put another astronaut on the moon, for example. Something that's expected very soon.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Stephen McDonnell Data released by the United nations shows that last year 50,000 women and girls worldwide were killed by partners or family members. It's the equivalent of one woman or girl being killed every 10 minutes or so. These type of intimate partner killings make up the majority of the even greater number of cases of femicide around the world every year. A grim set of data which UN says show Little sign of improving. Sarah Hendricks is director of the Policy and Program Division at UN Women and spoke to Tim Franks.

[Asma Khalid]

Indeed, today in fact marks the 26th year that we commemorate the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women across the United Nations. And what we see is a very stark truth, and that is, for more than two decades, the needle has barely moved with rates of intimate partner violence showing only a 0.2 annual decline. And the femicide estimates really deepen this truth. They show that for far too many women and girls, the most dangerous place actually remains in their home. Femicides do not emerge suddenly. They are in fact the fatal final act in a deeply egregious continuum of violence that is visible, but it is too often ignored long before a woman is killed. And really today, in this day of commemoration, too many of the women and girls are not actually here to mark this day. And we really owe them, I think, recognition of what these numbers are telling us, the lives behind them.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

And just very briefly, Sarah, I assume that these, I mean these numbers, in truth, they're probably an undercount.

[Asma Khalid]

Indeed, you are correct. We are seeing that data is needed and better data and statistics are required. In fact, for femicide specifically, we know that good data saves lives. And that's why UN women and UNODC have jointly developed a statistical framework for measuring the gender related killing of women and girls. And we're now working with countries to implement that.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Sarah Hendricks from UN Women it's been called one of the biggest criminal and human trafficking operations of modern times. In fact, its reach is so vast that the UN Office on Drugs and Crime has estimated that the so called scam centres of Southeast Asia Asia generate an annual revenue of just under $40 billion. The operations in these centers involve defrauding Internet and telephone users with romance and business cons. Myanmar is notorious for hosting scam cities, entire compounds built for the purpose of cyberscam operations which are now the focus of a renewed crackdown. Ed Butler reports.

[Ed Butler]

Six months ago, along with my fixer E, I walked along the Moi river that divides Thailand and Myanmar, looking across at KK Park. It was at the time a huge imposing complex with high walls and razor wire, one of the region's most notorious scam centres. Today the scene looks a little different. Last month a Myanmar military plane bombed KK Park. The attack on one small part of this complex complex caused chaos. Large numbers of foreign workers imprisoned inside managed to escape. Aid worker Judah Tanner has been helping to repatriate some of them.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Hundreds of people were fleeing from what we've been able to gather, the company bosses had actually fled the scam centers.

[Ed Butler]

In this video received by the BBC, a small group of Ethiopians and Filipinos are ferried across the river. This was part of a daring rescue. Other videos posted online show migrants trying to swim across the river. Not all of them made it. Bodies have since been discovered downstream. The Myanmar military didn't stop with KK Park. It's now started clearing parts of the biggest of all the Myanmar scam developments at Shwekoko. The reasons why the military has chosen to counter the scammers in this way remains a little mysterious. It says it's striking a blow for the rule of law, but activists say it has for years been taking a cut of the scam proceeds itself. These attacks are just an attempt to extort a bigger share of the profits, they reckon, or it's trying to appease its key regional ally, China. Judah Tanner.

[Mariana Caruya]

Again, China put out a request to.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

The Myanmar group that they wanted at least 30,000 Chinese people to be rescued and sent home.

[Ed Butler]

What's clear is that the combination of this military action in Myanmar and the recent US indictment and sanctioning of a Cambodian conglomerate accused of involvement in scams has represented a setback for one of the world's fastest growing and most lucrative criminal networks.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Ed Butler with that report. The Spanish galleon San Jose sank off what is now the coast of Colombia in 1708 after being attacked by British warships. It was said to have been carrying one of the largest amounts of valuables ever lost at sea. Treasure hunters tried to find it for years. Ten years ago, it was located, and as everyone suspected, it was full of gold, silver, gems and jewellery worth at least a billion dollars. Colombian scientists have now brought up the first objects from the ship. A cannon, three coins and a porcelain cup. There are arguments about who owns this hoard, a battle that's moved to the courts. But conservationists think the wreck and its cargo should be left where it is so they can slowly learn about the past. Mariana Caruya is with the San Jose Galleon Project. She spoke to Rob Young.

[Mariana Caruya]

It's a great experience. I'm sorry, but I cry every time I talk about it. Those objects, we decided to work with them because they have information that was important for our investigation. That's why we chose only a few of them and for a special reason each one. The canyon, for example. We were looking for a date that we can work with and also some information on the inscriptions for the coins. It's the same thing. And for the porcelain, we are trying to find out why we have Chinese porcelain in a ship that's coming from America to Europe. So we've been working over a year. I feel like an ambassador of what's going on here.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Is the plan to bring everything up?

[Mariana Caruya]

Of course not. We are just trying to answer the questions that we have in the project. As you know, in modern archaeology, we try just to work with the questions that we have also in order to have stuff for the future. Other people in the future are going to have different questions with the information that we're giving them.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

So you're saying then that billions of dollars worth of gold, of silver, of jewels will be left under the sea?

[Mariana Caruya]

We are not working because of the economic value of what we have there, the objects that we have. We are working so hard in Colombia to make people know that the things that we have there are not important because of what they worth as economic value, you know, but because of what they can tell us about the people who lived in that time. And I think that's worth more.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

The site is known as the Holy Grail of. Of shipwrecks. Are you confident that its location will remain secret? Because it's a state secret, isn't it? Nobody's allowed to know exactly where it is.

[Mariana Caruya]

Nobody is allowed. We must see the value of these places beyond economics because we are trying to build a story about what you're asking me, and we only have answers if we have stuff to study. If we don't have anything, what's left? Some objects without a content, and the value of these objects is precisely the context around it.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Mariana Carrulla from the San Jose Galleon Project. And that's all from us for now. But there'll be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcastbc. You can also find us on X@BBC World Service. Use the hashtag globalnewspod. This edition was mixed by Gareth Jones, and the producer was Michael Bristow. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Alex Ritson. Until next time.

[Alex Ritson]

Goodbye.

[Asma Khalid]

America is changing and so is the world.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Tristan Redman in London, and this is the Global Story.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Narrator/Host (BBC Global News Podcast)]

Need listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.