Hong Kong fire kills at least 128 people

Summary

Global News Podcast (BBC World Service)

Episode: Hong Kong fire kills at least 128 people

Date: November 28, 2025
Host: Celia Hatton

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Episode Overview

This episode delivers breaking news coverage of the devastating high-rise fire in Hong Kong that has claimed at least 128 lives. The podcast also addresses major global developments including new US immigration policy after a tragic National Guard shooting, severe flooding in Southeast Asia, historic protections for sharks and rays, Pope Leo’s unifying visit to Turkey, Wikipedia’s founder’s response to online criticism, a viral story about Austrian nuns, and a tribute to Scottish fashion icon Pam Hogg.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catastrophic Hong Kong High-Rise Fire

(00:50 – 06:38)

• Incident recap: The fire started Wednesday in a high-rise housing complex and tore through seven buildings, leaving at least 128 dead and about 200 missing. Rescue efforts have ended.
• Fire alarm failures: Faulty smoke alarms in multiple blocks contributed to the disaster.
  • “We found that these fire alarms were malfunctioning. We will be taking enforcement actions over this.” – Celia Hatton reading from the fire chief’s statement (03:04)
• Government Response: Several arrests have been made, and an official investigation has started, expected to take 2-4 weeks.
• Community grief & anger: Local reporter Danny Vincent notes:
  • “There was always an expectation amongst some people at least that the death toll would rise. … But there was also a sense of anger ... Many people are beginning to ask questions. They want to know why this fire happened, why it spread so quickly, if anything is being hidden.” (03:57)
• Red Cross support: Aid workers are supporting families dealing with shock and loss.

Notable Quote

"This is really a test for the government. They want to wait to see what information comes out, but they also are concerned that perhaps someone should be held accountable for this."
— Danny Vincent (05:42)

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2. US National Guard Shooting & Immigration Policy

(06:38 – 10:24)

• Incident: Two US National Guard soldiers were shot, one killed, by a 29-year-old Afghan national. President Trump has announced a permanent pause on migration from Afghanistan and 18 other countries.
• Expert reaction:
  • Jeremy McKinney (American Immigration Lawyers Association president) emphasizes the tough vetting process:

    "These Afghans that cooperated with our military underwent the most intensive screening process and vetting process of any immigrant..." (07:26)

  • He expresses concern migrants are being scapegoated.
• Policy Impact: Affected countries include Cuba, Haiti, Somalia, Venezuela, among others. Anticipates increased re-screening or revocation of statuses but doubts it will enhance security.

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3. Southeast Asia Floods & Landslides

(10:24 – 13:47)

• Scale of disaster: Over 140 dead in Thailand and 170+ in Sumatra, Indonesia, with deadly flooding also affecting Vietnam, Malaysia, and Sri Lanka.
• First-person account:

  "The water started to rise in the morning ... then suddenly it got so high and fast. My house has a second floor, so we evacuated upstairs." (10:56)

• Challenges: Difficult access, food shortages, rising costs. Aid delivery is hampered by geography and ongoing flooding.
• Historical context:
  • Astutestra Ajung Rastri: "Southeast Asia just experienced one of the worst floods in the region... rain like this never happened in the past decades." (13:02)
• Regional impact: Tens of thousands displaced; situation continues to worsen.

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4. Major Conservation Victory for Sharks & Rays

(13:47 – 16:25)

• Convention Result: 70 species given stronger protection via CITES, with species like whale sharks and oceanic whitetip sharks moved to the highest protection (Appendix 1).
• Expert reaction from marine biologist Luke Warrick:
  • “Many of these 70 species are already critically endangered or endangered with extinction. … This is kind of one of the last chances we have to save them.” (14:23)
  • “For the first time, CITES has recognized that some species shouldn’t be traded anymore.” (14:57)
• Enforcement: Applies to international trade; individual countries still set own domestic policy.

Notable Quote

“We really need these species to be treated like marine wildlife, like whales and turtles, and not as a food resource.”
— Ben James (15:21)

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5. Pope Leo’s Historic Unity Visit to Turkey

(17:00 – 23:16)

• Symbolic act: Pope Leo marks 1700 years since the Nicene Creed's creation by standing with Patriarch Bartholomew, Orthodox and Catholic leaders reciting the creed together.
• Message of unity:

  “We must strongly reject the use of religion for justifying war, violence, or any form of fundamentalism or fanaticism. Instead, the paths to follow are those of fraternal encounter, dialogue and cooperation.”
  — Pope Leo (20:43)

• Ecumenical significance: First visit to the site by a pope; fulfills Pope Francis’s unfulfilled intention.
• Regional religious importance: Raises Christian-Muslim dialogue in Turkey; upcoming travels include mass in Istanbul and visit to Lebanon.

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6. Wikipedia’s Jimmy Wales on Threats, AI, and Right-Wing Criticism

(16:37 – 26:45)

• AI concerns: Wikipedia community is vigilant about AI-generated (and sometimes false) content:

  "The community is already saying they see some AI slop coming in... if you tried to do it in some sort of massive wholesale way ... the community would just block you very quickly."
  — Jimmy Wales (23:47)

• Criticism from right-wing activists and Elon Musk:
  • On bias accusations:

    “The only way to make that seem true is if you think the Wall Street Journal and the Telegraph and the Economist are left wing rags. … There are some sites ... frowned on as sources, but it has nothing to do with their political leanings. It just has to do with that they're not very good.” (25:05)

  • On Musk and alternative encyclopedias:

    “I'm not that worried about it. I mean, his approach doesn't look very promising to me. … We know that it's not possible.” (25:45)

  • On funding and independence:

    “Every time Elon rants about us, we see a surge in donations. … Elon's not as powerful as he may think he is.” (26:14)

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7. Austrian Nuns’ Standoff with the Church Goes Viral

(26:45 – 28:55)

• Backstory: Three elderly nuns who returned (with outside help) to their convent after being placed in a care home now have a large online following. The church allows them to stay if they give up social media.
• Social Media Fame: Videos showed one nun boxing and wielding a sledgehammer; their resistance captured public attention.
• Current Status: Nuns have not accepted the church’s condition yet.

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8. Remembering Pam Hogg, Maverick Scottish Fashion Designer

(28:55 – 32:35)

• Life and work: Known for bold, colorful, body-conscious designs and worn by icons like Lady Gaga, Bjork, and Rihanna.
• Influence & Legacy:
  • “Her clothes ... were pieces of walking art. They weren’t just sort of trend oriented, mass produced ... they were made with love from her.”
    — Karen Franklin (30:18)
  • “Pam just had a kind of magical lust for life and she visually was very stunning ... She just was one of those people with charisma. But it wasn't superficial ... it was underpinned by a very .. pro social motivation for just and fairness.” (29:25)
• Iconic Style: Famous for “lycra fitted catsuits worn with platform shoes...that kind of countercultural, post-punk, rock and roll of fashion." (31:41)
• Personal story: Her father’s inventive gifts inspired her creativity and individuality.

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Notable Quotes

• “We want them to feel that they're not alone. Although it's a very painful process...but our team...are accompanying them.”
  — Eliza Chung, Hong Kong Red Cross (03:41)
• "It's a sad day for our country because one of these soldiers has died. But it's an especially sad day for migrants in this country because once again, they're being scapegoated."
  — Jeremy McKinney (07:26)
• "This is scapegoating, pure and simple."
  — Jeremy McKinney (09:22)
• "Aid coming to that area is very difficult. ... the price is also doubled. So it's very difficult."
  — Astutestra Ajung Rastri (12:03)
• “This is kind of one of the last chances we have to save them [endangered sharks and rays].”
  — Luke Warrick (14:23)
• "We must strongly reject the use of religion for justifying war, violence, or any form of fundamentalism or fanaticism."
  — Pope Leo (20:43)
• "Funding is from the general public and every time Elon rants about us, we see a surge in donations. So it's a lot of noise. But Elon's not as powerful as he may think he is."
  — Jimmy Wales (16:37, 26:14)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:50] — Hong Kong Fire coverage begins
• [03:57] — Danny Vincent reporting from Hong Kong
• [06:38] — US National Guard Shooting & Migration response
• [10:24] — Southeast Asia Floods and Landslides
• [13:47] — CITES shark and ray protection breakthrough
• [16:37] — Wikipedia’s role, AI risks, and right-wing criticism
• [17:00] — Pope Leo’s Turkey visit & Christian unity
• [26:45] — Viral Austrian nuns’ story
• [28:55] — Pam Hogg tribute

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Tone and Language

The episode maintains the BBC’s signature calm, neutral, and empathetic journalistic tone. Quotes from reporters, interviewees, and guests are clear and direct, reflecting the seriousness of the news topics, but the episode includes moments of warmth and personal reflection, especially in the tribute to Pam Hogg and the discussion about the nuns.

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For more breaking news and developments, subscribe to the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service.

Transcript

[Celia Hatton]

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[Ben James]

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[Celia Hatton]

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[Karen Franklin]

And she was very much a kind of party clubbing, nocturnal energy. People kind of found their way to her because she was her own walking advert.

[Celia Hatton]

We remember Pam Hogg, the Scottish fashion designer whose eccentric outfits were worn by stars including Bjork and Lady Gaga. We go first to the latest on the devastating fire in Hong Kong that started on Wednesday and ripped through seven buildings in a high rise housing complex. Officials now say at least 128 people have died and rescue efforts to try to find survivors have ended. But around 200 people are still missing. Speaking at a news conference, the head of fire services, Andy Jung Yong Kin, told reporters that alarms were not working properly in the tower blocks.

[Danny Vincent]

Some have pointed out that the fire alarms in several blocks did not go off.

[Celia Hatton]

Our fire safety inspection team was deployed.

[Danny Vincent]

Yesterday to inspect the fire alarm systems across eight buildings.

[Celia Hatton]

We found that these fire alarms were malfunctioning. We will be taking enforcement Actions over this. Local media are reporting that the authorities have arrested several more people in connection with the fire. Crowds have been gathering at a nearby community hall that has been open to families looking for missing loved ones. Eliza Chung is from the Hong Kong Red Cross, which has been helping the victims relatives. A lot of them are in the state of shock, especially when they first knew of the updates of their family members. If the news came out to be very bad, of course, they are also in this conditional state of finding it very hard to accept the reality. And our team, the volunteers and the staff are accompanying them. Although it's a very painful process and moment, but we want them to feel that they're not alone. Danny Vincent gave us this update from Hong Kong.

[Danny Vincent]

I'm in Taipo, very close to the scene where the fire took place. I think people here in Hong Kong are extremely saddened by what's happened. There was always an expectation amongst some people at least that the death toll would rise. And sadly, many people think it will continue to rise because sadly, the people that were and are continuing to be missing, there's around 200 people that are considered missing at the moment. There are fears that those people were trapped inside and unable to escape and simply didn't survive. Now here on the ground, many of the people I've been speaking to, they're of course grieving. Many that I've spoken to new residents inside the building or they've spent time in there, or they're familiar with the area. Some people had no connection but simply come together to show their respects and experience this tragedy. But there was also a sense of anger. There's sorrow and grief, but there's also anger. Many people are beginning to ask questions. They want to know why this fire happened, why it spread so quickly, if anything is being hidden. Now the authorities have launched an investigation. They say it will take between two to four weeks. But some of the people I've been speaking to, they see this as a test of the government because they simply want answers.

[Celia Hatton]

Danny, I mean, you mentioned that anger. We're also hearing that, for example, the fire alarms weren't working in the building. We're getting some indications of the lack of fire protections in place in these buildings. Are you hearing anger around that kind of news that's emerging?

[Danny Vincent]

I'm hearing that on the ground. The majority of people I've spoken to that they're standing silently and they're mourning, they're grieving, they're taking this situation in. But there are people that are angry and are making these type of allegations. I've heard from a number of people that have said that they've heard the fire alarms weren't working. They're asking questions. Most people say they want to be neutral. They're waiting for information from the authorities. But there certainly is that suspicion, if you like. And like, one individual said to me that this is really a test for the government. They want to wait to see what information comes out. But they also are concerned that perhaps someone should be held accountable for this. And this was more than just an innocent accident. It was something that potentially could have been prevented.

[Celia Hatton]

Danny Vincent the shooting of two U.S. national Guard soldiers in Washington in the run up to Thanksgiving has sent shockwaves around the US as we reported in our earlier podcast, one of the soldiers, Sarah Beckstrom, has died from her wounds, while the other is in a critical condition. The suspected Gunman is a 29 year old Afghan national living in the US who had previously worked for the CIA in Afghanistan. Although the motive for the shooting isn't known, President Trump has now said he will permanently pause migration from Afghanistan and another 18 countries. He also attacked the US immigration policy for not working. Jeremy McKinney is president of the American Immigration Lawyers Association. He defended the immigration system.

[James Copnell]

These Afghans that cooperated with our military underwent the most intensive screening process and vetting process of any immigrant that decides to relocate to the United States. So it's very difficult for myself as an immigration attorney to conceive how it could get any more intense. But we shall see. It's a sad day for our country because one of these soldiers has died. But it's an especially sad day for migrants in this country because once again, they're being scapegoated.

[Ben James]

When you say an incredibly tough vetting process, what exactly happens with the program?

[James Copnell]

For Afghans especially, they go through years of administrative processing. So they are interviewed, they are fingerprinted, and those go through fairly exhaustive, not only criminal but also national security checks that are all done outside of the United States. So with many people in our immigration process, those types of background checks are done while the person is in the United States. But with this process, which in every instance was over a year, if not multiple years, that process is done outside of the United States before the person is allowed in. And so it is not until they've gone through this intense screening that they are permitted in.

[Ben James]

It now seems that the administration in the US Will look to review the status of people from not just Afghanistan, but 18 other countries, ones it considers high risk, Cuba and Haiti, Somalia Venezuela and so on. What are you expecting to see in regards to that?

[James Copnell]

I would assume that they would call in individuals for re interview, perhaps for more biometric screenings. I honestly don't know what our government could do beyond those two steps. I guess primarily what they will be looking for since I seriously doubt that they're going to find any evidence of any type of national security or terrorist background because they've already gone through a screening. I would assume that they may be looking for something else to use as an excuse to take away that person's status. For example, if the person left something out on their application, you know, they'll be accused of having willfully omitted information or misrepresenting information. I mean, we'll just have to see. The point is, is that this is scapegoating, pure and simple.

[Celia Hatton]

Jeremy McKinney speaking to James Copnell to Southeast Asia. Now it's been battered by storms over the past week and all that rain is causing deadly floods and landslides across the region. More than 140 people are confirmed dead in Thailand. And on the Indonesian island of Sumatra, more than 170 people are dead and dozens more unaccounted for. This man described how his home was flooded.

[James Copnell]

The water started to rise in the.

[Ben James]

Morning, but it was slow. Then suddenly it got so high and fast. My house has a second floor, so we evacuated upstairs.

[James Copnell]

We're running out of supplies and food.

[Ben James]

We're trying to find some out here so we can be safe.

[Celia Hatton]

Our reporter Astutestra Ajung Rastri is in the Indonesian capital, Jakarta.

[Astutestra Ajung Rastri]

We have spoken to the search and rescue team and they say they are working day and night to get to the affected area. And it's very difficult because in North Sumatra, for example, the flood has started from three days ago. But up until now the search team still trying to go into the worst affected area, this particular city, Sibolga, for example, a lot of death casualties reported from that area. But it is a hilly and mountainous area and it also a coastal area which is make it very difficult because the sea level is also quite dangerous nowadays.

[Celia Hatton]

What about the survivors whose homes have been destroyed? What's happening to them?

[Astutestra Ajung Rastri]

Yeah, so the worst heated area in the Sumatra island is about three province, the North Sumatra, West Sumatra and Aceh. So now each of the disaster relief has been tackled by the local government and each of these province now looking at tens of thousands of people displaced from their homes and they are setting up shelters in schools, in buildings that are safe from the floods. But aid coming to that area is very Difficult. We heard from people, locals that are trying to get food for themselves. They go to the market and it's scarce. And even if there are some food that they can buy, the price is also doubled. So. So it's very difficult.

[Celia Hatton]

Okay. And also, I mean, I mentioned just a moment ago, it's not just Indonesia, is it? Several countries have been affected by storms and flooding. Can you give us a sense of the destruction across the region?

[Astutestra Ajung Rastri]

Yeah, Southeast Asia just experienced one of the worst floods in the region in Thailand. It's 300 years ago that this bad rain had happened in their country. And it's also the same within Indonesia. We're talking about locals telling us that rain like this never happened in the past decades. And we also seen reports from Vietnam and Malaysia. Their river banks cannot hold the rain. And tens of thousands displaced as well in those countries. And now at the latest, we also see Sri Lanka now battling with storms. So, yeah, this has been quite a devastating week for the region.

[Celia Hatton]

Astudestra, Adrin rastra. 70 species of sharks and rays are getting better international protection in what conservationists are saying is a historical win. Signatories to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora, also known as cites, have agreed the restrictions at a meeting in Uzbekistan. One of the people at the summit is Luke Warrick, a marine biologist and director of shark and ray conservation at the Wildlife Conservation Society. Ben James asked him for his reaction to the agreement.

[Ben James]

Some huge changes today for sharks and rays in terms of the ones that are going to be protected by this international convention. And it includes species such as the whale shark, obviously the largest fish in the ocean, manta rays and their close cousins, the mobular rays and the iconic oceanic whitetip shark, formerly one of the most abundant open ocean sharks on the planet, that has declined sadly by over 90% worldwide. Sadly, many of these 70 species are already critically endangered or endangered with extinction. So right on the edge of extinction, you know, forever, this is kind of one of the last chances we have to save them.

[Celia Hatton]

So what will change?

[Ben James]

The most important thing that happened today is for the first time, CITES has recognized that some species shouldn't be traded anymore. It's offered Appendix one, its strongest type of protection. Two species, such as the whale shark, manta ray and oceanic whitetip, that will phase out commercial use of these species, which is crucial. We really need these species to be treated like marine wildlife, like whales and turtles, and not as a food resource.

[Celia Hatton]

And is that the heart of why.

[Ben James]

They'Re threatened, that they are used as food. Yeah, there are some shark and ray species that can be managed and fished sustainably around the world, but these species aren't. These species grow so incredibly slowly, much like animals you'd think of as protected on land, like bears or big cats. However, they haven't really been managed that way. They haven't really been managed at all and that's led to these catastrophic declines. So it's fantastic to see the international community step up here and offer them that protection as the iconic ocean wildlife they really are.

[Celia Hatton]

This doesn't affect what happens within countries though, does it?

[Ben James]

This is just about international trade. So a country individually can decide this is absolutely fine to continue hunting these species. So that's exactly right. And we see different things in different countries around the world. The one thing about cites listings is because of that teeth. It really does have an impact in many countries where they really want to act. They know there's compliance measures if they don't. So cites won't deal with that directly. But the trigger that this action can create, really, this is just a start. The measures here today are incredible and it's fantastic to see them. The hard work starts after this.

[Celia Hatton]

Marine biologist Luke Warrick. Still to come, the creator of Wikipedia says he doesn't feel threatened by right wing critics, including Elon Musk.

[Jimmy Wales]

Funding is from the general public and every time Elon rants about us, we see a surge in donations. So it's a lot of noise. But Elon's not as powerful as he may think he is.

[Celia Hatton]

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[Jimmy Wales]

We must strongly reject the use of religion for justifying war, violence, or any form of fundamentalism or fanaticism. Instead, the paths to follow are those of fraternal encounter, dialogue and cooperation.

[Celia Hatton]

Reporter Emily Wither is in Iznic. She spoke to me just after the ceremony finished.

[Emily Wither]

The ceremony is hugely symbolic. It's the main reason why Pope Leo wanted to come to Turkey for his first overseas trip. He was honoring a promise that the late Pope Francis made, who said that he wanted to visit before he became too unwell to do so. This town, to mark this very important anniversary where 1700 years ago, the first ecumenical council of Christianity took place, this meeting of church authorities in the 4th century made a written declaration of Christian beliefs called the Nicene Creed, and that is still recited in churches around the world today. And we've just seen Christian leaders from all across the Middle east reciting the Nicene Creed together. And the reason that's so symbolic is because it really pushes this message of unity that Pope Leo has said he wanted to be the key theme of this trip. He stood alongside the Patriarch Bartholomew. He's the spiritual leader of the Eastern Orthodox Christian Church. And it's symbolic because the two churches split in 10:54. The Orthodox Church and the Catholic Christian Church have been split for hundreds of years. But in, in recent years, there has been talk of greater unity and to see all the leaders together. Today we've had Christian leaders from Egypt, Israel, from Turkey, from Syria standing and reciting the Nicene Creed is a real symbolic sign of unity at very difficult times. That's the message that Pope Leo wanted to deliver.

[Celia Hatton]

So a meeting of quite some significance then. Where is the Pope heading next?

[Emily Wither]

So he has a few more days still here in Istanbul. He also wants to talk about greater dialogue between Christians and Muslims. So Turkey is a Muslim majority country. There's less than 1% of the population here is Christian. So tomorrow he will visit the Blue Mosque, the Sultan Ahmet Mosque in Istanbul, and then he will also hold a mass in a stadium before going on to Lebanon. And in Lebanon, he's going to continue to talk about peace and unity and deliver this message to the dwindling Christian community in Lebanon that they are supported and that they are seen.

[Celia Hatton]

Emily Wither, the co founder of Wikipedia. Jimmy Wales is not your average tech bro. He's not a business billionaire, though the website he started in the early 2000s has become part of many people's daily lives. But in a world of AI and online polarization, the ideals that Wikipedia is based on are under threat. The BBC's Chris Valance asked Jimmy Wales whether he worried that AI could harm the integrity of Wikipedia.

[Jimmy Wales]

The community is already saying they see a some AI slop coming in where people edit an article and they look at it and they're like, yeah, this looks like AI and they investigate and it's got hallucinations in it. And you know, if you tried to do it in some sort of massive wholesale way where you're going to upload a million articles a day, well, the community would just block you very quickly. Like that level of activity would just be immediately like, hold on, that's like spamming us. It's complete nonsense.

[Celia Hatton]

One of the things that's happened in.

[James Copnell]

Recent months almost is that Wikipedia has become the focus of attacks from the political right. One of those leading the attacks is a co founder of Wikipedia.

[Jimmy Wales]

You might dispute that.

[Celia Hatton]

I know you disagree with some aspects of it, but Larry Sanger, he was.

[James Copnell]

Recently on Tucker Carlson laying out the case against you. You look at only the sources that are permitted to be used in Wikipedia. So mostly secondary sources and they are.

[Celia Hatton]

Mostly left wing or center.

[James Copnell]

Generally speaking. There is now a blacklist called the Perennial Sources page that contains.

[Celia Hatton]

Lists of.

[James Copnell]

Dozens of conservative sources that are just not allowed.

[Jimmy Wales]

Well, that's just false. The only way to make that seem true is if you think the Wall Street Journal and the Telegraph and the Economist are left wing rags. Like it's completely bonkers to say that, right? There are some sites that are frowned on as sources, but it has nothing to do with their political leanings. It just has to do with that they're not very good. And if we have a potential source that contains misinformation and errors on a regular basis, you just have to say, yeah, actually I don't think I really want that to be the basis of an encyclopedia entry.

[James Copnell]

Elon Musk was accusing you of being Wokipedia. He wants to set up his own version. Grokipedia.

[Jimmy Wales]

Does that bother you? I'm not that worried about it. I mean, his approach doesn't look very promising to me. I think he probably is overestimating the ability of AI to write encyclopedia articles. I mean, we know that it's not possible.

[James Copnell]

Do you feel under pressure from the.

[Jimmy Wales]

Right at the moment and from the U.S. administration?

[Celia Hatton]

I mean, does that feel to you.

[James Copnell]

Like something that is a threat to Wikipedia?

[Jimmy Wales]

No, not at all. We've designed everything to maximize our intellectual independence. And so funding is from the general public. And every time Elon rants about us, we see a surge in donations. So, you know, whatever, you know, we don't have any funding from the US federal government. We don't have funding from any governments. And we're a very dispersed, diverse community who are just loving our hobby of making an encyclopedia. So it's a lot of noise. But Elon's not as powerful as he may think he is. He can say what he wants. I don't care.

[Celia Hatton]

Wikipedia's Jimmy Wales, now three Austrian nuns in their 80s who ran away from an old people's home to return to the convent that they'd been forced out of, have been told they can stay there until further notice. But the church authorities have stipulated certain conditions. As Bethany Bell reports from Vienna, Sister Bernadette, Sister Regina and Sister Rita were the last three nuns at their convent just outside Salzburg until December 2023, when they say they were forced to leave against their will and placed in a care home. In September this year, they move back in with the help of former students and the locksmiths. This angered church officials who wanted them to return to the care home. Since then, supporters have been posting videos of the nuns daily lives at the convent, including Sister Rita's workouts with a sledgehammer and boxing gloves. They now have over 100,000 followers after a standoff of almost three months. Church officials say the nuns can stay at the convent until further notice, but only if they give up their social media activities. The nuns have not yet said if they agree to the conditions. In September, the nuns told the BBC they were determined to stay at the convent where they've spent most of their lives. Sister Bernadette told me she would rather die in an alpine meadow than in the old people's home. Bethany Bell in Vienna. Pam Hogg, this Scottish fashion designer has died. She was known for her eccentric and outlandish design lines, which have been worn by models and pop stars including Lady Gaga, Rihanna, Bjork and Kylie Minogue. Pam Hogg was understood to be in her 60s. She told a British newspaper a few years ago that she didn't publicly disclose her age. She spoke about one of her first influences that sparked her love for fashion. My dad was so inventive and he had this garden shed and he would.

[Karen Franklin]

Make, you know, the most incredible things. I mean, for Christmases and birthdays, he.

[Celia Hatton]

Would come and present me with something and say, no one else has got one of these. So instead of feeling like you were the odd one out, like you've not got the latest this and that, he felt really special. And that is what has driven me doing my things. It's like giving something because that's what he gave me. Jane Hill Spoke to the fashion broadcaster and writer Karen Franklin, who knew Pam Hogg well.

[Karen Franklin]

Pam just had a kind of magical lust for life and she visually was very stunning. When she stepped into a room, you couldn't not notice her. But also her laugh, her engagement with people, it was clear that she loved people. She just was one of those people with charisma. But it wasn't superficial, it wasn't surface. It was really underpinned by a very kind of pro social motivation for just and fairness. And she was quite an unforgettable energy.

[Celia Hatton]

You paint a wonderfully vivid picture there. I mean, if you think of Pam Hogg, you think colour, both in terms of what she designed and the way she presented herself. Was that deliberate? Did she love the use of color? Did it just go with her personality? What drove that?

[Karen Franklin]

She worked in such a way that her clothes, which she designed pretty much on her own and made on, were pieces of walking art. They weren't just sort of trend orientated, mass produced in a way to kind of roll out. They were sort of made with love from her. I think that's why celebrities flocked to wear her clothes. Obviously they did a great job of delivering the red carpet statement. They were often seen in music videos simply because they were pretty much one offs.

[Celia Hatton]

Did she enjoy working with so many celebrities or was that a way of then bringing in other clients?

[Karen Franklin]

She was very much a kind of party clubbing, nocturnal energy. Certainly pre Internet. In the early days when we all began our careers, that was our social networking, standing in the car, attracting attention because of the way you looked and what you were. And so people kind of found their way to her because she was her own walking advert. She didn't need to employ models and do expensive photo shoots. That really wasn't the way she lived her career.

[Celia Hatton]

Are there particular pieces, particular creations that we should remember her for? Or maybe she would like us to.

[Karen Franklin]

Remember Pam's kind of lycra fitted catsuits worn with platform shoes. And this is kind of high craft because there were lots of little panels of different colours and often people would sort of say, well, I couldn't wear that. And then they'd get into it and they'd style it up and suddenly they had a garment that they treas that kind of countercultural, post punk, kind of slightly strappy, leather studded, you know, the sort of rock and roll of fashion, if you like, was very much her signature. I've still got a pair of suede chaps shorts that you obviously have to wear with a Lycra underlay because otherwise you've got a lot on show. I don't know why I've still got them because I haven't worn them for a long time, but I did like.

[Celia Hatton]

Wearing them back in the Jane Hill and the broadcaster and writer Karen Franklin reflecting on the life and legacy of Pam Hogg. And that's all from us for now. But there will be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcastbc.co.uk.com you can also find us on X@BBC World Service. Use the hashtag globalnewspod. This edition was mixed by Rebecca Miller and the producer was Judy Frankel. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Celia Hatton. Until next time. Goodbye.

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