Huge protests in Greece over train crash justice

Summary

Global News Podcast Summary BBC World Service | Episode: "Huge Protests in Greece Over Train Crash Justice" | Released: February 28, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of the BBC World Service's Global News Podcast, host Charles Havilland delivers a comprehensive overview of pressing international issues. The episode covers massive protests in Greece demanding justice for a tragic train crash, a pivotal meeting between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and former U.S. President Donald Trump, a significant Europol operation targeting AI-generated child sexual abuse material, and the remarkable journey of a Japanese documentary seeking Olympic acclaim despite domestic challenges. Each segment is enriched with firsthand accounts, expert insights, and notable quotations that provide depth and context to the stories.

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Massive Protests in Greece Over Train Crash Justice

Timestamp: [00:00 – 05:23]

Two years after Greece's deadliest train disaster, which claimed 57 lives, the country has erupted in widespread protests demanding accountability and systemic reforms. On Friday, February 28, 2025, hundreds of thousands of Greeks took to the streets in cities across the nation to mark the anniversary of the catastrophic event.

Clashes and Demonstrations: In Athens, the protests took a violent turn as hooded demonstrators launched petrol bombs at police forces. The situation escalated outside the Greek Parliament, where law enforcement employed tear gas to disperse the massive crowds. Helena Smith, BBC's correspondent in Athens, describes the scenes as a "war zone" with "youths throwing Molotov cocktails" and setting fires in the parliamentary courtyard ([00:58], [03:12]).

Protesters' Demands: The demonstrators are vociferous in their demand for justice, attributing the crash to "human error, poor maintenance, and inadequate staffing" ([00:58]). Residents express deep frustration with the government's slow response to rectify the systemic failures that led to the tragedy. As one protester passionately states, "We want to send the message to the government and the employers that we will not tolerate anymore going to work and not knowing if we are going to get back home alive" ([02:00]).

Government Response: Despite acknowledging the need for action, the government has been criticized for its sluggish efforts to modernize the railway system. Helena Smith highlights the public's belief in a government cover-up, noting that authorities hastily cleaned the crash site by graveling and cementing it over, which has only intensified public distrust ([04:25]).

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Ukrainian President Zelensky's Meeting with Former U.S. President Trump

Timestamp: [05:23 – 09:03]

In a development poised to influence the course of the ongoing conflict with Russia, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is set to meet with former U.S. President Donald Trump at the White House. The primary agenda centers around a controversial minerals deal that could unlock Ukraine's extensive mineral resources in exchange for economic support, albeit without direct American security guarantees.

Economic Implications: Lisa Jasko, an MP from the Ukrainian President's Servant of the People party, expresses cautious optimism about the deal. She emphasizes its potential to fund reconstruction and stimulate economic growth: "It looks not bad and quite good for Ukraine, not only for the economic interest in general, but also for the future" ([05:58]).

Skepticism and Concerns: Contrary to Jasko's optimism, Vitaly Shevchenko raises concerns about the deal's transparency and the lack of security assurances: "Whatever versions of that deal have been leaked to the press, they don't really say anything about what Ukraine is getting in exchange for... signing off a huge chunk of its mineral wealth" ([06:43]). Shevchenko also points out the uncertainty surrounding Trump's fluctuating stance, noting Trump's earlier remarks labeling Zelensky as a dictator before reversing his position ([07:54]).

Strategic Importance: Shevchenko underscores the critical nature of this meeting for Ukraine's survival, stating, "This meeting... is crucial for Ukraine's future and potentially Ukraine's survival" ([08:49]). The lack of detailed agreement terms adds an element of unpredictability, with Zelensky seeking more concrete security guarantees before finalizing any deal ([09:03]).

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Europol's Operation Against AI-Generated Child Sexual Abuse Material

Timestamp: [09:03 – 11:42]

Europol has mounted a significant crackdown on the distribution of AI-generated child sexual abuse material (CSAM), marking a new frontier in cybercrime. The operation, code-named "Cumberland," has resulted in over 25 arrests across 19 countries, including Australia, Germany, and the UK.

Scope and Methodology: Anna Holligan, Europol's correspondent in The Hague, details how the primary suspect, a Danish national arrested in November, orchestrated an online platform for creating and distributing AI-generated CSAM. Users worldwide accessed the content through social media by making symbolic payments and obtaining passwords ([09:31], [10:30]).

Challenges in Enforcement: The sophistication of AI technology poses significant challenges for law enforcement agencies. Differentiating between AI-generated images and real-world abuse victims complicates efforts to identify and prosecute perpetrators. Holligan notes, "The more this material that's around, the harder it is for the authorities to find the perpetrators and the victims" ([11:42]).

Europol's Stand: Despite the material being artificially generated, Europol emphasizes its harmful impact, often rooted in real-world abuse. The Director of Europol has highlighted the moral imperative to tackle such content to prevent further exploitation and psychological harm ([10:34], [11:42]).

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Japanese Documentary "Black Box Diaries" Aims for the Oscars

Timestamp: [11:42 – 15:28]

"Black Box Diaries," directed by Shiori Ito, has garnered international attention as it vies for a nomination in the Best Documentary Feature Film category at the Oscars. Despite its acclaim abroad, the film remains unseen in Japan due to domestic controversies surrounding its portrayal of a high-profile rape case.

Synopsis and Impact: Based on Ito's memoir, the documentary chronicles her 2015 legal battle against renowned journalist Noriyuki Yamaguchi, who was connected to former Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. After police and prosecutors dismissed her allegations for insufficient evidence, Ito won a civil case in 2019, positioning her as a symbol of Japan's MeToo movement ([12:10], [13:09]).

Challenges and Controversy: The film has faced backlash in Japan, primarily from the lawyers involved in Ito's case. They criticized the unauthorized use of CCTV footage and secret recordings, arguing that it compromised sensitive sources and breached court-use-only materials. Ito defends her choices, emphasizing the public's right to the truth: "I want to break the idea of perfect victim because that was what stopping me" ([12:49], [14:25], [15:14]).

International Acclaim vs. Domestic Resistance: While "Black Box Diaries" has been screened in over 50 countries and is the first Japanese-directed film nominated for an Oscar in its category, its absence from Japanese theaters underscores the societal tensions surrounding victim advocacy and legal transparency ([14:07], [14:36]).

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Canadian Elections and US Tariff Tensions

Timestamp: [15:34 – 20:11]

Ontario, Canada's most populous province, has re-elected its Progressive Conservative Party for the third consecutive term. Leader Doug Ford's victory speech emphasized resilience against U.S. President Donald Trump's threat to impose a 25% tariff on Canadian goods, particularly in response to concerns over fentanyl trafficking.

Doug Ford's Stance: In his address, Ford asserted Canada's preparedness to withstand economic pressures: "Donald Trump thinks he can break us... He is underestimating the resilience of the Canadian people, the Canadian spirit" ([16:36], [16:46]).

Mexico's Negotiations: Simultaneously, Mexico is engaging in high-stakes negotiations with the U.S. to prevent the imposition of tariffs. Vanessa Rubio, Mexico's former Deputy Finance Minister, elaborates on the necessity for clear metrics to assess progress in areas like fentanyl control, organized crime, and migration ([17:06], [17:55]). Vitaly Shevchenko highlights the ambiguity of Trump's demands, questioning whether Mexico can meet the unspecified requirements: "Donald Trump will say things, not necessarily things that are clear perhaps in terms of what has to happen" ([18:08], [19:42]).

Trade and Security Concerns: Rubio emphasizes the importance of establishing a stable investment environment for sustained economic relations: "Mexico is the first trading partner of the United States... enabling environment for investment and for normal trade relations takes place" ([19:03], [19:47]).

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South Africa's Response to US Funding Cuts for HIV Programs

Timestamp: [20:11 – 23:07]

The U.S. government's abrupt cessation of funding for South Africa's HIV programs, previously supported under PEPFAR, has triggered a crisis in the region. Dr. Aaron Mocholedi of South Africa ensures that state-funded clinics will continue providing life-saving drugs despite the funding gap.

Impact of Funding Cuts: Lisa Jasko underscores the critical role of PEPFAR, which accounted for 17% of South Africa's HIV funding. She warns of dire consequences, including an estimated 500,000 potential deaths over ten years due to disrupted treatment and halted research: "A halt in US funds... could lead to more than 500,000 deaths over 10 years" ([21:44], [21:59]).

Systemic Challenges: Public health expert Dr. Kate Rees explains that the removal of PEPFAR funds jeopardizes access to antiretroviral therapies (ARVs) and essential support services, particularly for vulnerable populations: "It requires a lot... leading to deaths" ([21:02], [21:59]).

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Humanitarian Crisis in the Democratic Republic of Congo

Timestamp: [23:07 – 26:46]

The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) faces a worsening humanitarian crisis, with ongoing conflicts and natural disasters displacing millions. The United Nations and the Congolese government have appealed for $2.5 billion in aid to support the 20 million affected individuals, many of whom have fled to neighboring Burundi amid the resurgence of the M23 rebel movement.

Desperate Escapes: Nomsa Maseko reports from the Burundi-DRC border, illustrating the perilous journeys undertaken by refugees attempting to escape violence. Stories like that of Jordan Beta, who evaded M23 fighters by traversing dense forests, highlight the extreme risks faced by those fleeing ([23:43], [24:31]).

Living Conditions in Refugee Camps: Refugees in Burundi live in makeshift camps with scarce resources. Elderly and disabled individuals like Mygega Mwaru endure harsh living conditions, questioning their safety and prospects for return: "Granny Magega must be wondering if she'll ever go back to her home country" ([24:39], [26:46]).

Rebel Advances: The rapid movement of M23 rebels exacerbates the instability, forcing more civilians to seek refuge under dire circumstances. The BBC notes the high mortality rate among those attempting to cross the Rossizi River, with at least 20 reported drownings in recent weeks ([23:07], [26:46]).

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Morocco's Eid al-Adha and Livestock Shortage

Timestamp: [26:46 – 29:17]

In Morocco, King Mohammed VI has made a significant departure from tradition by urging families to forgo purchasing sheep for the upcoming Eid al-Adha festival. Traditionally, millions of sheep and goats are sacrificed to commemorate Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son, symbolizing faith and obedience.

Reasons for Change: James Kopnell interviews Moroccan journalist Aida Alamy, who explains that severe drought and dwindling herds, compounded by economic constraints, have driven the King's unprecedented call: "There are huge reasons... It's too expensive. It's just not sustainable" ([27:22], [27:48]).

Public Reaction and Impact: The King's directive has been met with relief among Moroccans, as it alleviates financial burdens and addresses environmental concerns. Alamy notes that the King's proposition allows people to fulfill religious obligations without the societal pressure to purchase livestock: "As the religious leader, he would perform the sacrifice in the name of the nation" ([27:55], [28:18]).

Broader Implications: Climate change and misguided agricultural policies have severely impacted Morocco's livestock industry. Alamy attributes the crisis to prioritizing exports over domestic food security, resulting in reduced livestock populations and increased reliance on imports: "Morocco has suffered for several years from severe drought" ([28:45], [28:54]).

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Conclusion

The episode of the Global News Podcast offers an in-depth examination of critical global issues, from social unrest and geopolitical negotiations to advancements in cybersecurity and challenges in public health. Through detailed reporting and poignant personal stories, the podcast not only informs but also provides a platform for voices from diverse backgrounds, highlighting the interconnectedness of today's world.

For further engagement or to share your thoughts on this episode, listeners are encouraged to email [e-mail] or connect via BBC World Service's social media channels using the hashtag #globalnewspod.

Produced by Tracy Gordon, mixed by Daniel Fox, and edited by Karen Martin.

Transcript

[Charles Havilland]

This is the global news podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Charles Havilland and at 14 hours GMT on Friday 28th February, these are our main stories. Protesters have clashed with police in Athens as huge demonstrations take place across Greece, marking two years since the country's worst ever train crash. President Zelensky prepares to meet President Trump at the White House with a minerals deal on the table. Europol says it's made dozens of arrests in a large scale operation against AI generated child sexual abuse material. Also in this podcast, a Japanese documentary about a rape case is aiming for the Oscars despite not being shown in Japan.

[Shiori Ito]

I want to break the idea of perfect victim because that was what stopping me. People telling me you're not lying enough talking to the policeman.

[Charles Havilland]

We start in Greece. Hundreds of thousands of people have been protesting in towns and cities across the country to mark two years since a rail disaster that killed 57 people. In Athens, hooded protesters threw petrol bombs at police. There were clashes outside parliament as officers tried to disperse the crowds with tear gas. The crowds say they want justice for the 57 people who were killed when a passenger service collided with a freight train near the tempe Gorge in 2023. A report published on Thursday found the crash was caused by human error, poor maintenance and inadequate staffing. And protesters like these two are venting their anger. We want to send the message to the government and the employers that we will not tolerate anymore going to work and not knowing if we are going to get back home alive. I came here for justice in order.

[Shiori Ito]

To finally find out why so many.

[Charles Havilland]

Young people were lost.

[Shiori Ito]

To finally find out why there are.

[Lisa Jasko]

Accidents that put lives at risk every day.

[Charles Havilland]

That time it was those children, but.

[Vitaly Shevchenko]

It could have been my own kid.

[Charles Havilland]

I heard more from our reporter in Athens, Helena Smith.

[Helena Smith]

We've seen extraordinary scenes here in Athens today. First of all, an incredible demonstration in the square that is the site of the Greek Parliament. Tens of thousands of people gathered there in a first, they weren't chanting themselves hoarse, they were silent, most bending their heads in honor of the dead. This is the anniversary, the second anniversary of the country's worst ever rail disaster that saw 57 mostly young students die in an accident that many in Greece believe was entirely preventable and is down to systemic failures. The failure of the state to provide even basic services like a modern railway system.

[Charles Havilland]

You mentioned that it's been silent and mournful, but there's also been violence.

[Helena Smith]

That's absolutely right. Barely had the relatives of the victims finished addressing the crowds when Crashes erupted across the square in what appears to have been a very well coordinated plan to disrupt an otherwise peaceful protest, with black clad hooded youths emerging, throwing rocks at riot police, Molotov cocktails, etc. And within minutes, thousands of people found themselves fleeing the square, some even taking refuge in the Greek parliament as the air became filled with this acrid tear gas fired by riot peace. And then of course, the crowds, but we're talking about tens of thousands of people disperse. We're at the tail end of that happening. But much of central Athens has been turned into a war zone pitch battle between riot police and these rock lobbying youths. There have been extraordinary scenes even around the Greek Parliament with youths throwing Molotov cocktails, setting off fires in the courtyard of the Greek Parliament.

[Charles Havilland]

The report on Thursday, which suggested there are still a lot of failures, haven't been rectified. Have the authorities given any indication that they are going to act on this and perhaps assuage some of the protesters concerns?

[Helena Smith]

Well, the government has said that it will act on this, that its plan is to create a modern railway system, but it's been very slow. What has stoked so much of this public outrage here in Greece is this sense of a government cover up and that in the days after, the state moved very, very quickly to clean up the scene of the tragedy, removing what could have been very vital evidence, including, if you can believe it, human remains from the site of the crash by graveling and cementing it over, none of that has helped assuage this public sense that somehow they're not being told the truth.

[Charles Havilland]

Helena Smith in Greece to the United States now. And as we record this podcast, the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, is preparing to meet Donald Trump at the White House for a crucial encounter. They'll be discussing how to end the war that began with Russia's invasion. And at Mr. Trump's insistence, they're set to sign a deal that would open up Ukraine's vast mineral wealth to the US but with no American security guarantees for Ukraine in place, Lisa Jasko, an MP from the Ukrainian President's Servant of the People party, is nevertheless optimistic.

[Lisa Jasko]

It looks like the deal looks not bad and quite good for Ukraine, not only for the economic interest in general, but also for the future. Because for us, it is very important then hopefully one day the war is over, that there will be different projects, different reconstruction, big projects that will help to restore our land, our society. We do have a lot of natural resources. If there are different economic assets that will be run and produced by other countries. That means that we will hopefully will have more security guarantees.

[Charles Havilland]

But is her optimism misplaced? Our Ukraine cast co presenter Vitaly Shevchenko told me. More.

[Vitaly Shevchenko]

At the moment, we don't really know. Whatever versions of that deal have been leaked to the press, they don't really say anything about what Ukraine is getting in exchange for, well, signing off a huge chunk of its mineral wealth. And also, let's not forget that this isn't really a straightforward business transaction or an investment agreement, because we are talking about a country that is fighting for its survival, literally. So when people talk about reconstruction and anything that might happen in the future, the big question is, what happens before we get to that point? And this is what Volodymyr Zelenskyy really, really wants. Security guarantees that will ensure that Ukraine quite simply survives until the point when it can talk about investment and reconstruction and rebuilding the country once this war is over.

[Charles Havilland]

Ukraine's survival is very much on everyone's mind at the moment. Donald Trump seems at least to have changed his mind for the moment over Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Do you think this will help Ukraine?

[Vitaly Shevchenko]

It's a good sign, as far as Ukraine is concerned. Going from calling Zelenskyy a dictator to saying, I can't believe I said that, and he is Ukraine's best president. That's what Donald Trump said yesterday. But there's been so much contradiction and so many things that are at odds with the facts as we know them in what Donald Trump has said that many people are actually saying, well, don't really listen to what he's saying. Keep an eye on what he's doing. And yesterday he extended some of America's sanctions imposed on Russia for another year. So today is the crucial day. I could say that this meeting between Donald Trump and Volodymyr Zelenskyy is crucial for Ukraine's future and potentially Ukraine' survival. What we don't have are the actual details of this agreement, and that's the key bit. And Volodymyr Zelensky says that, well, there's hope of still working on them and working more specific security guarantees in that deal before it gets signed.

[Charles Havilland]

Vitaly Shevchenko. Across Europe, at least 25 people have been arrested after police targeted the distribution of artificial intelligence generated images of child sexual exploitation. Europol, the EU's law enforcement agency, put out a statement on Friday saying they'd been supported by authorities in 19 countries. I heard more from Anna Holligan, our correspondent based in the Hague, where Europol is headquartered.

[Anna Holligan]

This is a whole new realm in AI and cybercrime. This is one of the first cases involving AI generated child sexual abuse material. So we've just had details from Europol. This is an operation that has been going on over the last few days. But in fact, the main suspect, who is Danish national, he was arrested last November. He's accused of hosting an online platform where he distributed, he created, produced these AI generated images, then sold them through social media. So users from all over the world were able to make a symbolic payment online, get a password and then access this platform to watch children essentially being abused. And as this technology is becoming more and more sophisticated, it's increasingly difficult for the authorities to differentiate between those AI generated images and real world victims. So that's one of the front lines now in terms of Europol's operations.

[Charles Havilland]

There's been one main suspect in this case, is that right?

[Anna Holligan]

Exactly, yes. So that was the Danish national, but in total they've identified 27073 suspects. This is an operation which is code named Cumberland. And when I look down the list published by Europol, the number of authorities involved, it just gives you an idea of how widespread this problem is. So from Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, right across Europe and the uk, arrests have been made, the authorities have been involved. And, you know, listening to this, you might think, well, these are AI generated images. What's the actual real world harm? In fact, it's harmful on multiple levels. So the director of Europol has talked about this. Often these AI generated images are derived from real world abuse, even in cases where the content is fully artificial and there's no actual real life victim depicted. It's a huge challenge too, because the more and more this material that's around, the harder it is for the authorities to find the perpetrators and the victims.

[Charles Havilland]

Anna Holligan, a film that charts a rape case filed by its director in 2015, is in the running for Best Documentary Feature Film at the Oscars on Sunday. That is, despite it not having been shown in Japan, the home country of the director Shiori Ito. Black Box Diaries has, however, been screened in more than 50 other nations. Shaima Khalil met Ms. Ito in Paris as she was promoting her movie.

[Shiori Ito]

I have chance to talk about what happened to me. I'm scared, but all I want to do is talk about the truth.

[Shaima Khalil]

When Shiori Ito decided to speak about her rape allegations in 2017, she knew she was standing in the face of a society that preferred victims to be silent. At the time, Japan's rape laws hadn't changed for more than a century. The onus was on the victim to prove that either violence or intimidation was involved in the sex act or that they were incapable of resistance. In the opening scene of her documentary Black Box Diaries, Shiori is speaking to the camera a few days before she holds a press conference, something she tells me her family was against.

[Shiori Ito]

For instance, my father, he's not, you know, especially strict, he's quite liberal. But then the first reaction when I told him I'm planning to go public, he said, your life is gonna be in danger and over in many ways my career, but especially as a woman.

[Shaima Khalil]

Black Box Diaries, which is Shiori's directorial debut, is based on her memoir. It follows the young reporter's quest for justice in a rape criminal case she filed in 2015 against well known journalist Noriyuki Yamaguchi, who also had a close relationship with the late former Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. As his biographer, Shiori decides to go public after the police and the prosecutors dismiss her allegations for lack of evidence. In 2019, she won a civil case against Yamaguchi, who's always denied the allegations. In doing so, Shiori became the symbol of the MeToo movement in Japan.

[Shiori Ito]

I want to break the idea of perfect victim because that was what stopping me. People telling me, you're not lying enough, talking to the policeman, you're not wearing proper clothes. When I'm doing press conference, there are moments I'm not proud of, but I want to put all of it in.

[Shaima Khalil]

The film has been screened in dozens of countries and is now in the running for Best Documentary Feature Film at this year's Academy Awards. Shiori is the first Japanese director to be nominated in this category.

[Shiori Ito]

It took some moments to understand. We really got in. It was almost 11pm in Japan time everyone was at my home in Tokyo. My best friend who's been always supporting me, all the film crews, we just cry with joy.

[Shaima Khalil]

Despite the international acclaim, the film has not yet been shown in Japan and has made the news under a cloud of controversy. Lawyers who led the team representing Shiori's successful civil lawsuit in 2019 have now criticized the documentary publicly, taking issue with the film's unauthorized use of CCTV footage that they say was only supposed to be used in court proceedings. The footage shows an intoxicated Shiori being dragged from a taxi and into a hotel lobby by the alleged perpetrator. The lawyers also said that her using secret video and audio recordings without consent has compromised sources who should have been protected.

[Shiori Ito]

We are standing in different point of view for me, Public good for them. Do not break any rules. CCTV footage is the only evidence visually, when we have to think about what we have to tell through this story.

[Charles Havilland]

Shiori Ito ending that report by Shaima Khalil.

[Nomsa Maseko]

Coming up in the distance in the middle of the river, I can see a man wearing a cap being pushed by the current. He's clinging on to a huge black bag which he pushes in front of him.

[Charles Havilland]

The desperate efforts to flee the fighting in the Democratic Republic of Congo, Canada's most populous province, Ontario, has re elected its Progressive Conservative Party for the third time. The leader, Doug Ford, campaigned on a promise to fight Donald Trump's pledge to impose 25% tariffs on Canadian goods. In his celebratory speech, Mr. Ford said the U.S. president underestimated Canada's spirit. Donald Trump thinks he can break us. He thinks he can divide and conquer, pit region against region. Donald Trump doesn't know what we know. He is underestimating us. He is underestimating the resilience of the Canadian people, the Canadian spirit. Make no mistake, Canada won't start a fight with the U.S. but you better believe we're ready to win one. President Trump says the delayed 25% markups on goods coming in from Canada and Mexico will now come into effect on the 4th of March. So let's get the view from Mexico. My colleague Roger Hearing has been speaking to Mexico's former Deputy Finance Minister, Vanessa Rubio.

[Vanessa Rubio]

Last time around, it was exactly the same threat in relation to the implementation of the tariffs. And then a series of negotiations and a series of conversations happened which culminated with the conversation between both presidents, and then the implementation of the tariffs was delayed. Today there is a huge delegation of Mexican officials in Washington, D.C. that are having conversations regarding how to anchor, which I think is the most important thing, Roger, how to anchor conversations with the United States in relation to specific metrics. You cannot have a conversation and you cannot have a negotiation in the abstract. You need to know exactly what numbers, what data, what metrics would be measured and would be taken into account in order for those tariffs not to be implemented.

[Vitaly Shevchenko]

But Vanessa, the metric that Donald Trump certainly has been pushing out is that Mexico hasn't enough to restrict the flow.

[Charles Havilland]

Of the drug fentanyl into the US From Mexico.

[Vitaly Shevchenko]

He says there's not enough progress. I mean, are the Mexicans making progress?

[Vanessa Rubio]

That's exactly what I was referring to, Roger. What is not enough? You need to put that on the table. What would be enough in relation to the US Government today to Say that Mexico is advancing in addressing the fentanyl problem and addressing organized crime and addressing migration. These are the very specific negotiations that need to take place because let's remember that we don't have currently a trade negotiation with the United States States. It's basically one that is concentrated on security and on migration. So it is those metrics that I think is what the ministers today are negotiating in order for those tariffs not to be implemented.

[Vitaly Shevchenko]

But as you know, Donald Trump will say things, not necessarily things that are clear perhaps in terms of what has to happen.

[Charles Havilland]

It's almost more in his interest to.

[Vitaly Shevchenko]

Keep you guys on edge all the time and constantly having to do his bidding.

[Vanessa Rubio]

But at the same time, the fact that you need to provide for a certainty environment in Mexico is also very important and is very important for the United States as well. Mexico is the first trading partner of the United States, the first source of its imports. It's the 15th largest economy in the world and the majority of its states have Mexico as main trading partner. So I think it is also important for the US in the medium term, hopefully sooner than later, that enabling environment for investment and for normal trade relations takes place.

[Vitaly Shevchenko]

Is it really though a negotiation? Because it feels at the moment as if Donald Trump, the Americans demand something.

[Charles Havilland]

And President Sheinbaum basically has to do it. It's a one way trade.

[Vanessa Rubio]

In effect, having been there in those negotiations, I can tell you that it is a negotiation. And one thing is the rhetoric and one thing is what both presidents say to their political base and to their electoral base, which of course is important in part of real politics. But the other thing is what happens really in negotiating table. And I am sure that there are negotiations going on.

[Charles Havilland]

Mexico's former deputy Finance minister Vanessa Rubio, South Africa's health minister, has described the decision by the US government to end its funding for HIV programs as a wake up call. Dr. Aaron Mocholedi told the BBC he'd instructed state funded clinics to ensure that no patient is left without life saving drugs. Eight million people in South Africa live with HIV. In 2003, President George W. Bush started financing a huge worldwide effort to combat the illness. But Donald Trump's administration has abruptly stopped tens of billions of dollars worth of aid contracts. Health experts say the funding, known as PEPFAR, was helping with research for a cure for HIV. Dr. Kate Rees, a public health expert in Johannesburg, has been speaking to James Koppnell about these cuts.

[Lisa Jasko]

We have heard that Pepfar supplies about 17% of South Africa's HIV funding. In South Africa, we are relatively lucky. However, that 17% actually makes a huge impact in terms of increasing access to services for the most vulnerable people. The way that this has been handled, where we have been planning this transition of these programs to the Department of Health to become more sustainable over five years, 10 years, and that has now been totally taken away from us and instead we've been pushed off this cliff. So the repercussions are going to be great for the health services.

[Vitaly Shevchenko]

We've had the head of the Desmond Tutu HIV foundation saying that a halt in US funds to South Africa's HIV AIDS programmes could lead to more than 500,000 deaths over 10 years. Does that seem to you a feasible figure?

[Lisa Jasko]

Yes, we definitely will see deaths in the coming years. And if you think about the really vulnerable people who are going to struggle to stay on their treatment, but also vulnerable pregnant women who are then not going to be virally suppressed at the time of their delivery and their babies are going to be at risk of contracting hiv. Children who are not going to get the psychosocial support that they absolutely need to help them to live lifelong on therapy. So it's as much as we are so lucky in South Africa that the ARVs are going to be there, they're going to be sitting there, however, to help people, and especially people living in really difficult situations, to be able to stay on lifelong therapy. It requires a lot. It requires a lot of management, a lot of differentiation of services and a lot of other quality improvements initiatives that are, in the long run, going to lead to deaths. And that's not even looking at the research and development that's been halted and that is going to push us all backwards in terms of our response.

[Charles Havilland]

Dr. Kate Rees, a South African public health expert, now to the worsening humanitarian situation in the Democratic Republic of Congo, where the government and the UN have made an appeal for two and a half billion dollars in aid. The funding would go towards helping the 20 million people affected by conflict and other challenges across the country. Many have chosen to find refuge in neighboring Burundi. But with the recent rapid advance of the M23 rebels, there are fears that even there they are not safe. Nomsa Maseko reports from the Burundi DRC border.

[Nomsa Maseko]

A perilous journey across the River Rusizi from the DRC to Burundi possessions, including jerry cans, are used as a life raft. The journey is frightening for both adults and children. In the distance, in the middle of the river, I can see a man wearing a cap being pushed by the current. He's clinging on to a Huge black bag which he pushes in front of him. As he emerges from the river, he wipes his face and takes a deep breath. He then goes straight to Burundi and forces nearby who want to make sure he's not carrying any weapons. His name is Jordan Beta. I managed to flee DRC safely because.

[Charles Havilland]

I was crossing through the forest and moving along the bushes instead of the main road.

[Nomsa Maseko]

This is because M23 fighters are everywhere.

[James Kopnell]

And they are forcing us to join them.

[Nomsa Maseko]

The BBC has not been able to independently independently verify this claim. In the last two weeks, at least 20 people, including children, have been swept away as they attempt to swim up to 300 metres across a river which at some point is 10 metres deep. It is thought many other drownings have been unreported. Jordan is among the lucky ones who made it. They say the choice is stark. Either stay and risk forced conscription into the M23 or swim and risk the waters of the Rossizi. Amani Sebakungu agrees with Jordan in the river, you just have to take heart and say, if I die or survive, so be it. God willing I cross safely. If I get into trouble, I call out to others for help. That's how we help each other. We are interrupted by the Burundian troops who order us to vacate the area. They spotted M23 rebels marching towards the river border. Safety in Burundi means living in makeshift camps like this one here in Rugumbo. As many as 25 people share a tent at. Food is rationed to only one meal a day. 87 years old and blind. The lines on Mygega Mwaru's face tell the story of the hardship she's endured since the 1960s due to instability in the DRC. I have fled to Burundi so many times since I was young, before I turned blind. There have been times where I almost.

[James Kopnell]

Strong.

[Nomsa Maseko]

With the recent rapid advance of the M23 rebellion. Granny Magega must be wondering if she'll ever go back to her home country or whether she's even safe in this one.

[Charles Havilland]

Nomsa Maseko reporting. Finally to Morocco. Last year, 6 million sheep and goats were slaughtered for the Eid al Adha festival. But this year, King Mohammed VI has made a rare break with tradition and urged families to forego buying sheep for sacrifice. Herds are dwindling at an alarming rate due to years of drought and imports have risen dramatically. Eid al Ada, which falls this year in early June, commemorates the willingness of Abraham to sacrifice his son on God's command. James Kopnell has been speaking to The Moroccan journalist Aida Alamy.

[James Kopnell]

It's the most important holiday of the year, arguably. Usually families go to the mosque in the morning and then the ritual of sacrifice happens after the prayer. Then families gather, people wear their nicest clothes. They visit relatives that they haven't seen in a long time or that they've seen recently. But it's a day of celebration and bonding with community and family and being together.

[Vitaly Shevchenko]

And this year, it seems the king is asking people not to buy sheep for sacrifice during the festival. Why?

[James Kopnell]

Well, at least to show restraint. Reasons are clear. There are huge economic issues. There's also drought. There's a huge decrease in the livestock in Morocco. Just two weeks ago, the Agriculture Minister spoke of maybe importing livestock from Australia. So there are many reasons. It's too expensive. It's just not sustainable. And I think it's been a relief for many Moroccans to hear this message. I mean, the king, in his letter said that as the religious leader, he would perform the sacrifice in the name of the nation. And that, in a way, gives people an excuse to not feel social pressure to do it. Anyway, people go into depth. They loan money to buy the sheep for the holidays. So I think there's definitely a sense of relief.

[Vitaly Shevchenko]

When you look at the factors going into the livestock shortages is climate change, one of the biggest.

[James Kopnell]

Morocco has suffered for several years from severe drought and also misguided agricultural policies. And what happened is that the country has prioritized export over ensuring food security for Moroccans and all of these things combined have have led to the decrease of livestock. But, I mean, the drought has been a huge concern, for sure.

[Charles Havilland]

Ida Alamy and that's all from us for now. But there will be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcastbc.co.uk. you can also find us on XBCWorldService. Use the hashtag globalnewspod. This edition was mixed by Daniel Fox and the producer was Tracy Gordon. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Charles Havilland. Until next time, goodbye.