Janak Jalil (2:55)

Pakistan is playing a key role As a mediator that is trusted by both sides, its foreign minister said his country was endeavoring to convert the ceasefire into a permanent end to this war. I asked our Pakistan correspondent Caroline Davies, what more we know about what's in the memorandum.

Caroline Davies (3:13)

A lot of this reporting is coming through the news website Axios, but they have said that this is a 14 point memorandum on one page. The suggestion is that this would set up the further discussions for sort of more detailed discussions, particularly around nuclear. And of course we know that nuclear has been a key sticking point. At least that's what the Vice President, J.D. vance said when he concluded the only round of talks we've had so far since this conflict began in Islamabad. That was back in April. And he said that the sticking point had been that they weren't able to come to the point that the US Wanted on Iran having nuclear weapons or having the ability to get to nuclear weapons. Course, we also think that sticking points are likely around the Strait of Hormuz. Many analyst analysts look of what has happened in the course of this conflict and seen that Iran has clearly realized how much leverage that they can exercise over the Strait of Hormuz and that it's unlikely that they're going to go back to exactly the way things were there, where there was just free passage through. But what that exactly looks like, we don't know at the moment. We are still waiting for an Iranian response to this proposal.

Janak Jalil (4:17)

Yes, because the Strait of Hormuz was not a problem before this war started. And the Iranians have been able to charge, what, $2 million per vessel. So it's hard to see them going back given all the losses that they've suffered. And a senior Iranian lawmaker has been quoted as saying that this US Proposal memorandum is simply a wish list.

Caroline Davies (4:38)

It's been very difficult to know exactly what Iran would necessarily want in the Strait of Hormuz, how that could be managed, whether that would be done bilaterally with Aman. Some of the noises suggest that maybe Iran isn't interested in something like that. Whether that would want to be done multilaterally with other countries. How would that work? How would that operate? But yes, given that Iran has seen the leverage it has, it's hard to think that Iran would want to go back to a position where it didn't have any of that kind of ability and control anymore. And in terms of the Iranian response, yes, we've heard that it's been described as a wish list, but we've also heard discussions as well from the Iranian side saying that They've still got their finger on the trigger if things deteriorate, which is not totally dissimilar language to the sort of language we've heard from

Janak Jalil (5:19)

President Trump, because both sides also have a lot to lose. President Trump's got the midterms looming up. Iran has huge economic challenges. Pakistan is continuing to play a central role in all this. So perhaps there is a will to, to come to some kind of deal, but without losing face.

Caroline Davies (5:38)

Yeah, and I think it's interesting, we've just heard from the Foreign Ministry spokesperson for Pakistan who has a weekly press conference and he has said that Pakistan expects an agreement sooner rather than later on a U.S. iran deal. Now I point that out because it's slightly unusual in the sense that we haven't really heard Pakistan say many of these things on record before. There's been lots of anonymous sourcing suggesting that they think things are moving and developing differently. So do we think that things are genuinely moving and in a new direction and that there can be this common ground, or do we think this is sort of discussion that's coming out in the open? People are trying to willing things forward, but could that momentum disappear as quickly as it seems to have appeared?

Janak Jalil (6:22)

Caroline Davies Meanwhile, the economic costs of the war are growing daily. The chief executive of the Danish shipping giant Mersk says the surge in energy prices is costing the business an extra half a billion billion a month. In a BBC interview, Van Song Clerk said cargo shipments had been massively disrupted by the closure of the Strait of Hormuz. And he said some of the burden is going to have to fall on customers.

Janak Jalil (6:50)

We can do some on, on pressing the cost agenda further, but, but for us, what is really important is actually to pass on these cost increases to our customers as much as possible so that we can protect our margin and the operations integrity going forward.

Janak Jalil (7:07)

It's been extremely difficult to communicate with people inside Iran for the past couple of months because the authorities have imposed an Internet blackout since being attacked by the US and Israel. My colleague Nico Kelbakiani from BBC Monitoring has been looking at what's been happening on the ground.

Nico Kelbakiani (7:26)

According to the Iranian media, the state affiliated media, they have dismissed these suggestions of an imminent deal. They've cited Iranian officials who are saying that Iran is still reviewing the latest US offer. So they haven't yet sent their response to Pakistan at the same time. Yes, as you mentioned, there's an Internet shutdown in the country, so we are not hearing from most Iranians who don't have access to the Internet. However, we still see even from the official Iranian media and state broadcaster these economic concerns that are existing in the country. For example, the same person, Kolibov, the parliament speaker, argued that the enemy is pressuring Iran through this economic means to break it after the war. President Peseshkan has warned about these rising prices and selling things at higher than authorized prices. The judiciary is announcing its measures to tackle this. So so we are seeing these signs that there is a serious economic struggle inside the country, especially for ordinary Iranians. But at the same time it seems that the Islamic Republic feels more confident that it can control the situation inside the country, that it has the geographical advantage, for example, over the Strait of Hormuz. And also it feels that it can withstand this economic pressure better and longer than the US and in global markets and also the regional countries.

Janak Jalil (8:58)

Nico Khelbakiani of BBC Monitoring and we have more on this on our YouTube channel. Search for BBC News on YouTube and you'll find global news podcasts. In the podcast section there's a news story available every weekday. Three women who returned to Australia from Syria today have been arrested on arrival. Two were detained in Melbourne, one in Sydney. They're part of a group of 13 women and children who've spent years in a Syrian detention camp because of their links to the Islamic State group, but have managed to return now thanks to their Australian nationality. The Australian government says it won't provide help to any citizens who joined. Is the Assistant Commissioner of Australia's Federal Police, Stephen Nutt gave this update on one of those arrested.

Janak Jalil (9:48)

It is expected a 53 year old woman will be charged tonight or tomorrow with the following four Commonwealth offences Crimes against humanity Enslavement Crimes against humanity Possess a slave Crimes against humanity Use a slave Crimes against humanity Engage in slave trading. These offences each carry a maximum penalty of 25 years imprisonment.

Janak Jalil (10:16)

Our reporter Simon Atkinson was at Melbourne Airport when some of the women and children arrived there.

Simon Atkinson (10:22)

We do know that there's another woman who came into Melbourne. We're not quite sure as yet what is happening with her. We assume that she hasn't been arrested as she's not included in those figures. And also no word as yet on what is happening to the children. There are nine children across these two flights who arrived. There's no suggestion that they're going to face any kind of legal action, of course, but we're yet to hear whether they've left the airport. We understand that they're going to be going to see extended family both here in Melbourne and in Sydney and in

Janak Jalil (10:53)

fact at least one of the children was born in the detention camp in Syria where they've been held in horrible conditions. And some are questioning why the children are being punished for their mother's actions.

Simon Atkinson (11:05)

Absolutely. I think of the nine children who've arrived back today, the vast majority of them, this is their first time on Australian soil. Although they're Australian citizens, they've got valid passports which has allowed them to come back. They've never actually been to Australia. They were born in Syria either during the war or as you say, in detention camps after the collapse of Islamic State. But this is it. There's been a lot of kind of split opinion, I say, on whether the women should be allowed back. Certainly the politicians have been quite vocal on the whole that they shouldn't be, but certainly more sympathy for the children, that they shouldn't be punished for decisions that they're their mothers made several years ago. And as you say, they've been living in terrible conditions, very basic access to health care, limited education. And so there's already a lot of thought being given to how life is going to be for them now they're back in Australia.

Janak Jalil (11:58)

And briefly, what measures are going to be taken to reintegrate them back into Australian society?

Simon Atkinson (12:04)

Well, we've heard they're going to get some psychological support. I mentioned they've got extended family here who've been lobbying for them to, to come back. They're also going to be asked to undergo courses to kind of make sure they haven't been radicalized during their time in Syria.

Janak Jalil (12:17)

Simon Atkinson, My heart is broken into a million pieces. The words of the mother of a five year old girl read out at a vigil in Alice Springs in Australia. She was my little princess, my princess who loved the color pink. Tributes of flowers, toys and messages have piled up outside the town camp near Alice Springs with a little as Aboriginal girl was abducted Last month, Nala Mansal from the Tasmanian Aboriginal Centre led another vigil in Sydney.

Nala Mansal (12:50)

Aboriginal children and all children have the

Caroline Davies (12:54)

right to live, to be loved and to be protected.

Nala Mansal (12:59)

We're here because a child, kuminjay little baby, should still be here.

Katie Watson (13:04)

A child who was loved, who deserves

Caroline Davies (13:07)

the safety and who deserved a future.

Janak Jalil (13:11)

The man accused of killing her, who's also Aboriginal, was attacked by locals before being arrested and charged. A riot erupted outside the hospital where he was being treated amid reports that concerns about the girl's welfare had been repeatedly raised in the weeks before she died. Our Australia correspondent Katie Watson was at the vigil in Alice Springs. She told me More about the little girl now known as Kumanjayi Little Baby.

Katie Watson (13:37)

It's a pseudonym that her family chose because many Aboriginal families communities don't want to say the name of somebody who's died because it may disturb their spirit. Now she went missing after her mother put her to bed at a Aboriginal community just outside Alice Springs at the end of last month and it sparked one of the biggest searches ever here in Australia's Northern Territory. But unfortunately, five days later her body was found not far from the town and it's really broken. Alice Spring, speaking to people here. I spoke to one person earlier today who said the community was numb but it's also shocked Australia as a whole. And that's why I'm at a vigil here in Alice Springs. It's just started but there are other vigils. There's one in Sydney, there's one another in many of the big cities across the Australia.

Janak Jalil (14:30)

And Katie, describe some more for us. The scene at the vigil where you are.

Katie Watson (14:35)

It's at a sports ground in the center of Alice Springs. There are hundreds of people. People have been asked to bring a candle and light one and they've been asked to wear pink. So there are children with pink balloons, pink ribbons in their head, dogs with pink bows, people with pink jumpers. It's getting quite nippy because in the winter in the outback it gets quite cold, cold when the sun goes down and the sun's just setting there. Now there's a series of talks and speeches of families expected to talk or representative of the family and community leaders. So I think that's something that people have said to me as well is that Alice Springs is often known for crime statistics for violence. That's kind of the headlines that come out of it. But actually what's happened has brought the community together and has brought, you know, people all came out to search for come and joy little baby. And it has clearly upset people but has, has brought people together as well.

Janak Jalil (15:29)

And this case has also highlighted how poorly Aboriginal children are protected in Australia. Many aborigines feel like they're second class citizens.

Katie Watson (15:38)

And I think that's one thing that people here feel constantly let down. I mean if you look at the number of young Aboriginal men in the jails here in Northern Territory, they far outnumber the proportion of Aboriginal people that you know, that are here in Australia. They, they, you know, are overrepresented in prisons, in different social services. And that is what people are saying is a failure of the system. People are not being looked after enough to be able to help vulnerable communities, poorer communities that face more difficult challenges getting jobs and that sort of thing, and perhaps that could improve things after this death.

Janak Jalil (16:17)

Katie Watson in a windy Alice Springs still to come in this podcast, the head of the global health body reassures the public that the hantavirus outbreak on board a cruise ship poses a low

Simon Atkinson (16:31)

risk to the public, who is working

Andy Meer (16:34)

with multiple governments and partners on the response. Our priorities are to ensure the affected patients receive care and to prevent any further spread of the virus.

Kai Wright (16:54)

I'm Kai Wright.

Carter Sherman (16:54)

I'm Carter Sherman. Welcome to Stateside with Kai and Carter. We're a new show from the Guardian.

Kai Wright (16:59)

We're talking to big thinkers and the best journalists just trying to understand the world through smart conversation and honest reporting.

Carter Sherman (17:05)

We don't have billionaires telling us what to say.

Kai Wright (17:07)

Stateside with Kyan Carter will come out three times a week, Monday, Wednesday and Friday starting May 13.

Carter Sherman (17:13)

Subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

Janak Jalil (17:25)

This is the global News podcast. The US Secretary of State Marco Rubio has met Pope Leo at the Vatican at a time of increasing tension between President Trump and the head of the Roman Catholic Church. Mr. Trump has repeatedly criticized the Pope, who has expressed his concerns about the U S Israeli war against Iran. Mr. Rubio spent more than two hours with the Pope for what were described as friendly and constructive talks in which they discussed the Middle East. Our reporter Davide Giulioni told us more

Davide Giulioni (17:57)

I'm standing in St. Peter's Square, just a few hundred meters from the Apostolic palace just behind me, where the meeting between the US Secretary of State Marco Rubio and the Pope took place. Now, as usual, as it usually happens at the Vatican with papal audiences, the meeting was behind closed doors, but obviously there's been a lot of speculation around the Vatican on what the two have been discussing. We do know that Rubio, before leaving the United States, said there's a lot to talk about at the Vatican. And the U.S. state Department in a written statement said that Rubio will meet with holistic leadership to discuss the situation in the Middle east and mutual interest interests in the Western Hemisphere. Now Rubio is also meeting the Vatican's Secretary of State, Parolin Rubio is also meeting Giorgia Meloni, Italy's prime minister and the Italian minister for foreign affairs. Hopefully, tensions will be eased, but Giorgio Meloni has been seen as the Trump whisperer, as Trump's closest ally in Europe. This has obviously changed after Meloni defined defended the pope and she was as a consequence attacked by Trump. So hopefully there will be some clarification and the tensions will be eased. That's what the Italians are hoping for, at the very least.

Janak Jalil (19:16)

Davide Giuliani the Israeli military has said that it's investigating after a soldier was photographed placing a cigarette in the mouth of a statue of the Virgin Mary in southern Lebanon. This comes weeks after international condemnation of a previous image in which another Israeli soldier was seen smashing a statue of Jesus from Jerusalem. Here's our Middle east correspondent Yolande Nell

Nala Mansal (19:42)

the latest photograph circulating on social media appears to show an Israeli soldier with his arm around a statue of Mary holding a cigarette up to her mouth. The Israeli army said it views the incident with utmost severity and that the soldier's conduct completely deviates from the values it expects. It said that an initial review showed the image was taken several weeks ago. Last month, the Israeli military said two soldiers would receive 30 days of military detention and be removed from combat duty due to the destruction of a statue of Jesus in the Lebanese village of Debil. Israeli troops remain in a wide area of southern Lebanon where they say they are rooting out Hezbollah fighters and their infrastructure. Residents have been told to leave.

Janak Jalil (20:25)

Yoland Nell the World Health Organization says five of the eight suspected cases of Hunter virus linked to a deadly cruise ship outbreak have now been confirmed. Of the global health body, Tedros Gabrieyesus gave this update shortly before we recorded this podcast.

Andy Meer (20:42)

WHO assesses the public health risk as low. WHO is working with multiple governments and partners on the response. Our priorities are to ensure the affected patients receive care, that the remaining passengers on the ship are kept safe and treated with dignity, and to prevent any further spread of the virus.

Janak Jalil (21:06)

Meanwhile, health officials from a number of countries are working to trace passengers who left the MV Hondius before the hantavirus outbreak on board was confirmed. Three people have died and several others who were taken ill have been taken off the ship for urgent medical treatment. Nearly 150 others remain on board. They're due to disembarking Tenerife in the Canaries this weekend despite the objections of the local authorities, our health correspondent Dominic Hughes told James Menendez.

Janak Jalil (21:34)

More we know that 30 people disembarked from the ship at St Helena on 24 April, so contact tracing for those people is underway. So they'll be looking at immediate family members, people who might have sat next to them on a long haul flight, for example, as they traveled home. We know that around 150 passengers and crew from 23 countries remain on board the ship. There are no New cases on board, as far as we know. In an update on Thursday, the cruise operator said there were no symptomatic individuals present on board. And the World Health Organization in fact says that no other passengers or crew on board are symptomatic at the moment. We also know that three people were evacuated yesterday and are now being treated in isolation in the Netherlands. As well as a British Gentleman, there is 41 year old Dutch crew member and a 65 year old German passenger as well.

Bretford Hickman (22:31)

Those that they manage to trace, I

Janak Jalil (22:33)

mean, what's going to be the advice? Are they going to be asked to isolate at home? Yes, they will be. So they'll be asked to either isolate at home or in some cases they will be put in sort of specific quarantine. So when the ship, the MV Hondius, docks in Tenerife in a couple of days, passengers will first be screened for symptoms and then if all is well, they'll be flown back to their countries of origin. I know those who coming back to the UK are coming back on a Spectrum chartered flight, for example, then they'll be asked to self isolate. Some of those people may need to be put into quarantine, but it depends on when they were last exposed to the virus. And one of the complicating factors is that the incubation period for this Andi strain of the hantavirus, which is thought to be behind this outbreak now that can be up to eight weeks. So people will be asked to isolate for at least, I think, 42 days, maybe six weeks, in order to make sure that they are through that period. And are health officials any closer to working out how this outbreak began? They are getting a bit closer, I think. The Andes virus was first identified in 1995 in Argentina, then in Chile the same year. And it's thought that the initial cause of infection, like all other hantavirus strains, is linked to rodents. Particularly in the case of the Andes virus, it comes from the long tailed pygmy rice rat. Now in the uk, the Health Security Agency here says that most hantaviruses do not spread between humans, but person to person transmission has happened with the Andes virus strain in very rare cases. And there appear to be several different strains of this single virus. And in South America those cases tend to peak in the spring and summer months when the number of rodents is highest and people are outdoors, more particularly in rural areas where rodents have been active. We know also that the Dutch couple who were the first to fall ill and then sadly die, they've travelled in South America in Argentina before joining the cruise. So the idea is that one possible route for the virus to have spread is that one or both of them became infected with the virus or came into contact with the virus.

Janak Jalil (24:44)

Dominic Hughes A massive mega tsunami wave created when part of an Alaskan mountain crumbled into the sea and is the second tallest on record. Last summer, the giant wave swept through a remote fjord in southeastern Alaska, leaving destruction in its wake. The event went largely unreported at the time, but a new scientific analysis shows it was caused by a massive landslide. Scientists are now talking about the risks posed by such events. James Copnell found out more from Bretford Hickman, an Alaskan geologist, Aug. 10.

Bretford Hickman (25:20)

There's a chunk of this mountain up above a fjord called Tracy Arm in Alaska in southeast Alaska that cut loose. It's about 65 million cubic meters of rock. This is very much the bedrock. It's not soil and stuff. It was deep down, hundreds of meters, in some cases below the surface, and fell rapidly into the fjord. It kind of hit the end of the glacier that was below it, carved off some of the glacier, went into the fjord and produced a tsunami. That the big impressive number is that it ran 481 meters up the mountain on the opposite side of the fjord. But it also continued on down the fjord after that, often reaching up 100 meters or more above the water. Quite a few people actually experienced it in different ways. There was one really close call with a campsite where their gear was swept away, but they were just outside the limit of the tsunami. And there was another big vessel that was fortunately in super deep water, so they weren't really affected, but they saw the wave breaking on the shores near them. And so no one ended up being hurt, which was really, really lucky.

Simon Atkinson (26:28)

But even weeks later, I understand you saw the damage, the devastation it had caused elsewhere.

Bretford Hickman (26:34)

Absolutely, yeah. It stripped all the brush and forest off the mountainsides for many kilometers down the fjord and we went. It was almost two months later. I think around two months later, we were out and did a survey of this so that we can better understand how these events play out.

Simon Atkinson (26:54)

How does such a large chunk of a mountain just crumble into the sea?

Bretford Hickman (26:58)

You know, one way to think about it is that, I mean, the surface of the earth is always changing and sometimes that happens as lots of little landslides just a little bit going away each time. And they might not seem little if you were there or if your house was in the way. But there are things that happen quite commonly, but in some places the way it happens is a big chunk of the mountain will break off all at once.

Simon Atkinson (27:22)

It sounds like this time might have been something of a lucky escape. But are you concerned that there could be other megatsunamis of this kind, that there could be risks to humans and others?

Bretford Hickman (27:33)

Yeah, I'm very much concerned about that. We've actually had a surprising number of these recently. If you look back through the 20th century, you might see an event like this in this whole region of the world, like Canada and Alaska might happen once every 20 years or so. So pretty rare events where a big landslide generates a tsunami like this. But we had this one in 2025, there was one in 2024 a little closer to where I live, and swept underneath occupied guest cabins at a lodge. There were tsunamis basically every year going back for the last six, eight years. And so it's a much, much higher frequency than normal. And we both theoretical reasons and empirical reasons to think that that's linked to glacial retreat related to climate change, and also weakening of slopes that have permafrost in them. Some places you might not think of having permafrost. There is permafrost up in the higher mountains, increased visitation by cruise ships and such to these glacial fjords. There are really a tremendous number of people going up into these places. You have ships that might have thousands of people on them that are going right up near to these glaciers. So probably not every glacier is the same level of risk. There's good reasons to be worried there might be a subsequent tsunami in Tracy Arm. And so now there's people are pulling back a bit from that place, which is good. But there is quite a large possibility that something will happen somewhere else. And we're not ahead of that curve yet. You know, we're not ready for that next event.

Janak Jalil (29:07)

The Alaskan geologist, Dr. Bretford Hickman. If you're a social media user, there's a good chance you'll have been offered solutions to transform your body shape. But experts have told BBC Sport they have serious concerns about the widespread and growing trend of AI generated characters advertising fitness programs online. A BBC investigation has uncovered false and misleading claims about dramatic body transformation transformations that breach the advertising rules in Britain. Often the disclaimers stating the ads contain AI are obscured or missing altogether. Our sports correspondent, Katie Gornall has compiled this report. Most women lose the first ten pounds within weeks of starting.

David Fairlam (29:51)

Every man should start doing military training.

Janak Jalil (29:53)

I teach women 50 plus how to burn belly fat.

David Fairlam (29:56)

They look polished and persuasive and sometimes very realistic. AI generated characters on social media telling us how to get fit and promising dramatic results. Some of these claims are problematic, and when we showed the videos to the public, it's not always clear what's real and what's not.

Katie Watson (30:15)

I don't think that's AI.

David Fairlam (30:16)

It's good AI.

Katie Watson (30:17)

It's AI.

Janak Jalil (30:18)

I think this is AI.

Caroline Davies (30:19)

Don't think the one before was AI,

Janak Jalil (30:20)

but you're bombarded with it on your feed every day. If you look into something like Teleton, fitness wise, you.

Janak Jalil (30:26)

It just comes on your stream after that, you know.

Bretford Hickman (30:28)

Yeah.

Janak Jalil (30:28)

Once you've run, that never stops, is it? Obviously you see all these fake things where there's people putting things together in time to tell what's, what's real and what's not. And I think that's the scary thing. You don't, you can't tell. And it's like, who can you trust, really?

Caroline Davies (30:40)

Just sets unrealistic expectations for everyone on the Internet. It's, it's just horrible. It's really bad. Have you ever clicked on those ads? I've downloaded an app once because I

David Fairlam (30:50)

thought it was really.

Caroline Davies (30:51)

It wasn't.

Andy Meer (30:53)

Shoulders back, shoulders down.

David Fairlam (30:54)

There is, though, nothing artificial about this. Here at a gym class on the beach in Thai Mouth in the northeast of England, more than 30 people are being put through their paces, watched and encouraged by real instructors.

Andy Meer (31:07)

As quick as we can, then up and pull down. AI has its place. And I think with, you know, looking at maybe fitness programs, nutrition and all of that, you cannot beat that real person, that real connection.

David Fairlam (31:19)

David Fairlam has been a personal trainer for 30 years. He says his concern is not the technology itself, but the messaging.

Katie Watson (31:27)

See how they all look on day 28.

Andy Meer (31:29)

Some frightening things have been said there as well. That we can do this in that time, in 30 years. I'm telling you now, that just can't happen because I know because I've been in this industry so long, most people won't. And that makes it even more worrying. And people expect that. So that think, right, 28 days before I go on holiday, I can look like that. We've got no chance.

David Fairlam (31:48)

We submitted several adverts featuring AI generated fitness characters to the Advertising Standards Authority. Ads are assessed on whether they're misleading or likely to be harmful. The regulator upheld multiple breaches, stating it was unlikely that the advertisers could provide adequate evidence to substantiate the claims, and said they'd be taking steps against them. We also contacted the companies behind the adverts as well as Meta and TikTok. They declined to comment.

Janak Jalil (32:17)

I think the economics of social media and the kind of attention economy in which we live lend itself towards more AI content.

David Fairlam (32:24)

Experts like Professor Andy Meer at the University of Salford say the trend for this type of content is huge.

Janak Jalil (32:31)

It's really clearly useful in many, many ways, but where it then misleads people to have perhaps false expectations of things that they do that don't lead to some great outcome that is promising is where perhaps regulation needs to step in.

David Fairlam (32:43)

AI may be changing the face of exercise online, but getting fit still means putting in the hard yards. And in a class like this one in Timeout, they know who to trust.

Janak Jalil (32:54)

That report by Katie Gornall and that's all from us for now. If you want to get in touch, you can always email us@globalpodcastbc.co.uk. this edition of the Global News Podcast was mixed by Rosin Wynn Dorrell. The producers were Muzaffa Shakir and Oliver Burlau. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Janat Jalil. Until next time, Goodbye.

Kai Wright (33:26)

I'm Kai Wright.

Carter Sherman (33:27)

I'm Carter Sherman. Welcome to Stateside with Kai and Carter. We're a new show from the Guardian.

Kai Wright (33:32)

We're talking to big thinkers and the best journalists just trying to understand understand the world through smart conversation and honest reporting.

Carter Sherman (33:38)

We don't have billionaires telling us what to say.

Kai Wright (33:40)

Stateside with Kyan Carter will come out three times a week, Monday, Wednesday and Friday, starting May 13.

Carter Sherman (33:46)

Subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.