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Israel targets Iran's nuclear sites - extra edition
00:18:14
Iran says two of its senior military commanders were killed
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- [00:00]
Jackie Leonard
This is an extra edition of the global news podcast on the Israeli strikes on Iran. From the BBC World Service, I'm Jackie Leonard and at 09:00 clock GMT on Friday 13 June, these are the headlines. Israel has attacked Iran with waves of military strikes that it says are targeting Tehran's nuclear program. Iranian state media say the head of the armed forces and the top commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard have been killed. And the Israeli military says it's intercepted all of more than 100 drones fired towards its territory by Iran. Israel is calling it Operation Rising Lion, a major attack involving dozens of airstrikes across Iran. In a televised statement, the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the target was Iran's nuclear infrastructure.
- [00:51]
Unnamed Analyst
Last year, Iran fired 300 ballistic missiles at Israel. Each of these missiles carries a ton of explosives and threatens the lives of hundreds of people. Soon those missiles could carry a nuclear payload, threatening the lives not of hundreds, but of millions.
- [01:10]
Jackie Leonard
Several people linked to Iran's nuclear program were among those killed. Air traffic has been suspended throughout the region and Israel has declared a state of emergency as it says it expects retaliation. These people in Jerusalem this morning expressed support for the military action.
- [01:27]
Unnamed Jerusalem Resident
I woke very early and I hear that Israeli army attacked Iran and I am very happy for this. We are waiting for this. I bless Israeli army to succeed in this attack.
- [01:42]
Well, we had no choice. I really feel like this was a last minute decision because we had no choice. We can't wait till they do something that then will be too late.
- [01:54]
Jackie Leonard
In Tehran, these people gave their reaction to the Israeli strikes. He's saying they want to take away our nuclear capability. That is unacceptable. So many scientists have worked hard for this. We achieved it ourselves and now they want to take it from us. And this man says that as an Iranian, there must be a crushing response, a reciprocal one. How much longer should we live in fear? Well, from Jerusalem, our Middle east regional editor, Sebastian Usher joins us now. So Seb, what's actually going on right now? Are these attacks still underway?
- [02:34]
Sebastian Usher
We've just been given the all clear, actually. In the past five minutes, everyone in Israel had essentially been given an alert saying they should stay in shelter or in a protected space. There were over 100 Iranian drones that were making their way towards Israel. But it seems that they've all been intercepted. And I'm seeing that people are beginning to, to come out again. There's a big road just near where we are and there are plenty of cars moving up and down that. So for the moment this looks like it's not going to be a one day affair, but could go on for days and days. But for the moment, the impending attack on Israel has been averted. So that's something that clearly the Israeli government will take as a major positive. You were talking there about the impact that the Israeli attacks have had in Iran itself. I mean, I think what's important to say is that this is by far the biggest escalation that Israel has carried out in those attacks. There were two sets of them last year, Israel and Iran, trading blows. Iran was unable to land the kind of blows that Iran was doing last year in response to Israel and certainly it hasn't done so far here. And what Israel seems to have done to an extent is a kind of dual attack, more wide ranging than we've seen. So part of it is on the facilities, the nuclear facilities. We've been hearing about that, about Natanz, etc. We don't know the extent of the damage that's been done, but clearly there were major targets. But also it's about senior figures at the heart of the military and nuclear establishment. So the chief of staff of the Iranian army, the head of the Revolutionary Guards, they have both been killed. And at least two top Iranian nuclear scientists have also been killed. That made me think about the strikes that Israel carried out against Hezbollah in the southern suburbs of Beirut in particular last November. Very, very precise, targeted, trying to decapitate the top level of leadership.
- [04:55]
Jackie Leonard
And why did Israel carry out these attacks now?
- [04:59]
Sebastian Usher
Well, the reason that has been given is one that Benjamin Netanyahu has been saying literally for decades that Iran is the major existential threat to Israel. And if it's able to get a nuclear bomb, that that is utterly unacceptable for Israel and it's his duty to defend Israel from that. And he, I mean from him, he was saying that they had new information suggesting that Iran would be able to make nine nuclear bombs within days. We also had a briefing from an Israeli military spokesman who actually raised the figure higher to 15, which the contrast between those two figures does make. You wonder exactly what that information was and why we're hearing two different versions. I think also it needs to be taken into account that the talks between us and Iran on trying to revive the nuclear deal in some form that President Trump had walked away from back in 2018, now he wanted to walk back into it. They were due to enter their sixth round on Sunday. Now, it didn't necessarily look like there was real momentum, but certainly it was going forward. So again, Mr. Netanyahu might have felt this is the moment for him to strike, to essentially stop that process in its tracks.
- [06:16]
Jackie Leonard
Sebastian? Asha, thank you. That was Sebastian Usher in Jerusalem. And as he was saying, Iranian state media say that the head of the armed forces, Mohammed Baghari, and top commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard, Hossein Salami, were killed in the Israeli strikes. At least six senior nuclear scientists were also killed. Iranian state television says residential areas in Tehran were hit and civilians were among those who died, including children. But at the moment that hasn't been independently verified. Kasra Naji of the BBC Persian Service joins us now. And Khasra, what is it that you're hearing about what's going on in Iran right now, the impact of the strikes and in particular the senior figures killed?
- [06:58]
Khasra Naji
I am in Vienna and I've been covering the IAEA's discussions yesterday about Iran, where they passed a resolution condemning Iran for its non compliance with its nuclear obligations under the npt, the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty. And this attack has happened, the Israeli attack on Iran has happened just hours, basically less than 24 hours after that resolution was passed. Which shows you the concern that Israelis might have had after that resolution passed, an Iranian reaction to it, which was basically announcing that they are establishing a third nuclear enrichment facility in Iran deep under mountains someplace that they didn't say. But nevertheless, the IAEA here is across the developments in Tehran and the IAEA is saying that they are closely monitoring the situation in Iran and they are in contact with their inspectors. I think they have about 100 or 130 inspectors based in Iran. IAEA says they are deeply concerned. They are saying that they can confirm that the Natanz site, that's a nuclear enrichment site, which is slightly underground but not under mountains that has been hit. It was one of those places amongst the targets. But the IAEA is saying that so far they have not detected any radiation spread from that site, which is Natanz site. I repeat that that's in central Iran. The agency IAEA is saying that they are in contact with the Iranian authorities regarding the radiation levels. And they are saying that the only nuclear power plant that Iran has, Bucheh nuclear power plant, that is in south of the country along the Persian Gulf. They saying that that nuclear power plant has not been targeted. They also interestingly say that Fordeau enrichment, nuclear uranium enrichment site, which is deep under mountains south of Tehran, about 100 kilometers south of Tehran, the capital, has not been targeted. Not that the IAEA knows. And they say that that's interesting in a sense that that place is where they are enriching uranium to about 60%, close to weapons grade, and that has not been targeted, interestingly. And also Esfahan's nuclear conversion site, that's in central Iran. Again, Esfahan has not been targeted. Nevertheless, Netanyahu is saying that they have targeted the nuclear site, the nuclear weaponization site, and also nuclear scientists.
- [10:24]
Jackie Leonard
That was Khasra Naji of BBC Persian. Well, Israeli officials have said that the attack was carried out with complete cooperation with the U.S. its closest ally. But questions remain as to the extent of their involvement. US President Donald Trump told Fox News reporter Brett Beyer that he knew in advance that there would be a strike.
- [10:43]
Brett Beyer
Just spoke to President Trump. One thing the president was aware of Israel's action before it happened. There were no surprises here. But he gave me a quote. He said, iran cannot have a nuclear bomb. We're hoping to get back to the negotiating table. We'll see. There are several people in leadership in Iran that will not be coming back. The US Will defend, will help defend Israel if needed.
- [11:14]
Jackie Leonard
We got more details from our US State Department correspondent, Tom Bateman.
- [11:18]
Tom Bateman
There have been a series of discussions between American and Israeli officials for some time, most notably on Monday, a phone call between President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu that was described as tense afterwards, in which this issue was discussed. And the sense very much from that was that President Trump was urging the Israeli leader not to do this yet, to give his negotiations with the Iranians some more time. But it's now apparent from the Israelis, actually that they had set this course on Monday itself. That's when the decision over the timing of these strikes was made. So what is not clear is the degree to which President Trump had given his consent to this happening now. And the issue now is the degree to which the Americans get dragged in. We saw very close coordination between the Americans and also some European countries and even some of those based in the region, some Arab countries, in terms of supporting the Israeli defence against an Iranian counterstrike. The other issue for the Americans, of course, is that you had the Iranian defense minister yesterday saying if there was a conflict he said imposed upon Iran, that they would target US Military bases in the region. And I think that's why we've had this very stark statement from Secretary of State Marco Rubio within minutes, really, of the strikes beginning on Tehran, saying that Israel took what he calls a unilateral action against Iran. We are not involved in these strikes, he says, going on to say that, let me be clear, Iran should not target U.S. interests or personnel. So a Clear warning against Tehran trying to retaliate against the Americans.
- [12:55]
Jackie Leonard
That was Tom Bateman. Well, for the wider picture and the implications of this attack, we spoke to defence analyst Jonathan Marcus.
- [13:03]
Jonathan Marcus
One of the reasons the Israelis struck now is that they believe that they had a strategic window of opportunity for two reasons. Iran's best means of countering Israel were the missile arsenal of Hezbollah, its ally in Lebanon. We know of course that throughout recent fighting Israel has dramatically weakened Hezbollah. So remove to a significant extent that element from Iran's armoury. Also, of course Iran wanted to depend on its own air defences, principally Russian and some Chinese supplied air defences. Now when the two countries last had an exchange of fire last October, Israel at that point destroyed proportion of Iran's air defences. They also demonstrated that they had the technical capacity to overcome the Russian supplied systems that Iran was using. So that was significant. So I think with both these elements much weakened Iran's air defences and Hezbollah's own ballistic missile arsenal, the Israeli military and government clearly believed that they had a sort of a strategic window of opportunity, that this was a moment of Iranian weakness that they could exploit.
- [14:17]
Jackie Leonard
But even that, how much can the Israeli operation really achieve?
- [14:22]
Jonathan Marcus
Well, this is a huge question. It's really the key question, I think, and certainly from what we hear, this is an operation that could unfold over a number of days. We're clearly going to have Iranian retaliation, but I think the basic Israeli strikes are going to have to go on for a number of days. Obviously they will be looking at what damage they believe they have already caused. The problem I think is does this really significantly destroy Iran's nuclear program or is it just a limited setback which might of course paradoxically encourage Iran to move towards a nuclear weapon even quicker, that being perhaps the only real deterrent that Tehran may see against future Israeli attack. And the key difficulty I think is that the two really crucial facilities, the two enrichment plants, significant elements of them, are underground or buried inside a mountain and so on. And certainly most experts I've spoken to in recent years and months have really believed that for a total destruction effort you really required a US role as well. Not least because of some of the biggest earth penetrating bombs that are currently in service, are only really operated by the Americans and cannot be deployed on the sorts of aircraft that Israel has.
- [15:47]
Jackie Leonard
In your assessment, Jonathan, how serious a moment is this?
- [15:50]
Jonathan Marcus
Oh, it's a hugely serious moment. I mean, this is the end of a great arc of rising tensions relating to Iran's nuclear ambitions and of course leaves us in a sense on the threshold of a major conflict between Iran and Israel and what the parameters of that conflict would be, we just don't know. It's likely to involve terror attacks. It's likely to involve all sorts of other different activities rather than just a full scale confrontation, one against the other.
- [16:21]
Jackie Leonard
That was defence analyst Jonathan Marcus. The US knew that the action was being planned. But as our chief international correspondent Lise Doucet explains, the timing was a surprise coming just before a sixth round of nuclear talks due between Iran and the US this weekend.
- [16:39]
Lise Doucet
I think this has come as a real surprise for everyone. I'm in Oslo and saw the Iranian Foreign Minister, Abbas Al Raqchi here in and the Omani Foreign Minister, Al Musaidi, who has been mediating in these indirect talks between Iran and the United States. All of the focus was on that there would be talks on Sunday. There was always this idea that of course there were other threats, possibly this could go wrong. But there was no sense in which an attack was imminent. And even late last night here I confirmed with someone in the State Department in Washington that Steve Witkoff would be heading to the region on Sunday. But obviously with every hour the tension seemed to escalate. The dominant feeling was that, well, it'll be after Sunday. And then all of a sudden this has happened. And one cannot exaggerate how dangerous a moment this is in the region. An attack which has not just attacked military and nuclear sites, but has assassinated. Assassinated the two top military commanders, including the commander in chief of the irgc, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, and two of Iran's leading nuclear scientists.
- [17:50]
Jackie Leonard
That was Lise Doucet. And that's all from us for now, but there will be the regular edition of the Global News Podcast later. This edition was mixed by Ben Martin. The producers were Judy Frankel and Steven Jensen. Our editor's Karen Martin. I'm Jackie Leonard and until next time, goodbye.