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Global News Podcast
Israel's plan to expand its military offensive in Gaza is widely criticised
00:34:24
The Israeli PM says the plan is necessary to defeat Hamas
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- [00:00]
Janat Jalil
This is the global news podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Janat Jalil and in the early hours of Tuesday 6th May, these are our main stories. There's been widespread condemnation of the Israeli government's plan for a big expansion of the military offensive in Gaza and the occupation of more Palestinian territory. Ukraine's military has said it still has troops active in Russia's Kursk region, despite Moscow's claim last month to have recaptured the whole area. Jury selection has begun in the sex trafficking trial of American musician Sean Diddy Combs. Also in this podcast, Zhao Sheng Tung becomes the first Chinese player to win the World Snooker Championship. I can't believe that.
- [00:50]
Unnamed Correspondent
Yes. Thank you.
- [00:59]
Janat Jalil
There's been widespread criticism of a plan approved by the Israeli Security Cabinet to greatly expand military operations against Hamas in the Gaza Strip. The European Union says it could lead to more casualties and suffering for Gaza's civilian population. There are also fears about what this could mean for the hostages still being held in the territory. Details of the Israeli plan have been emerging, including a proposal to possibly occupy Gaza long term and to distribute humanitarian aid through private companies rather than aid agencies like the un. The Israeli government spokesman David Mensah made this announcement.
- [01:41]
Unnamed Correspondent
The Security Cabinet unanimously approved the operational plan to defeat Hamas in Gaza and return the hostages. Israel has made clear release the hostages and for Hamas to lay down its arms and the war will end. The cabinet also approved the possibility of further humanitarian aid distribution when necessary.
- [02:03]
Janat Jalil
However, an Israeli defense official said the operation would not be launched until after the US President Donald Trump visits the Middle east next week, providing what he called a window of opportunity for Hamas to agree a new ceasefire and hostage release deal. A group representing the families of hostages says the Israeli government is choosing territory over the lives of their loved ones. Ruby Hen is the father of a deceased hostage. Ita Hen.
- [02:31]
Unnamed Correspondent
All the families are very scared about this new maneuvering because there's no guarantee that it will get us to where the families want and the people of Israel, which is the ratan of the last hostage. The prime minister even admits that this maneuvering will bring in only a partial amount of the hostages. And that is not what the families want. The families want a comprehensive deal that releases all of the hostages, while Jan.
- [03:01]
Janat Jalil
Egerland of the Norwegian Refugee Council said the Israeli plan to hand over the distribution of aid in Gaza to private companies would simply make matters even worse.
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Unnamed Correspondent
And at the moment, starvation is spreading all over this besieged area. There is no family that is not.
- [03:20]
Janat Jalil
Starving at the moment, which means that.
- [03:22]
Unnamed Correspondent
We need to restart aid all over the Gaza Strip. With now a new system that limits to only those who Israel would like to ration aid to would mean that starvation will continue to spread.
- [03:38]
Janat Jalil
Our correspondent in Jerusalem, Hugo Beshega, told us what was known about the Israeli plan.
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Unnamed Correspondent
Officials are saying that this plan includes seizing and holding territory in Gaza and also moving Gaza's population towards the south of the territory. Now, I think a lot of people will be concerned that if this plan goes ahead, it could lead to more people being killed, more suffering. It could worsen the humanitarian situation in Gaza. And in Israel, public support for the war is falling. And I think a lot of people, including the families of the hostages, will say that military pressure has failed to guarantee the release of the hostages who remain in captivity.
- [04:21]
Janat Jalil
Are the Israelis saying how much territory they plan to take?
- [04:25]
Unnamed Correspondent
No. And Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu posted a video saying that this time the operation will be different. He said troops will not go in and. And come out. In other words, he is suggesting that Israeli troops are going to stay in those places. Now, I think a lot of people will be raising some questions about the true intentions of the prime minister. Today, one of his allies, the far right Finance Minister Bezalus Motric, said that Israel was going to occupy Gaza to stay. So I think a lot of people will probably say, look, this doesn't seem to be only about releasing hostages or defeating Hamas. This seems to be about seizing and occupying land in Gaza.
- [05:10]
Janat Jalil
And we're also hearing that Israel's talking about a window of opportunity to secure a hostage deal before this offensive begins, perhaps during Donald Trump's upcoming visit to the Middle East.
- [05:25]
Unnamed Correspondent
Yeah. So one of the officials who spoke to journalists essentially gave an ultimatum to Hamas. He said that this plan is going to be implemented if there is no deal by the end of this visit. US President Donald Trump to the Middle east next week. So there seems to be a window here for negotiations for a deal. But we've seen that since the ceasefire collapsed back in March, negotiations for a deal have failed. And it's very difficult to see how this new plan, this new strategy by the Israeli government, if you like, will change the situation on the ground and eventually end up in a deal.
- [06:07]
Janat Jalil
And aid agencies have criticized Israel for blockading Gaza, for not allowing any food, fuel, medicines in for the past two months. Israel has now come up with its plan for allowing aid in, but that's already been rejected by aid agencies.
- [06:24]
Unnamed Correspondent
Exactly. So this plan that was approved by the Security Cabinet also includes this new mechanism to distribute Aid inside Gaza and this is a mechanism that would rely on international organizations, organizations and private companies. And again, aid agencies have rejected this plan. I think some critics are saying that it is very difficult to see how this is going to be implemented. Very difficult to see how this is going to really achieve meaningful results and address the needs of the population in Gaza.
- [07:00]
Janat Jalil
Hugo Bishaiga in Jerusalem so what do people in Gaza make of the reports that they will be moved to the south of the strip? Our Gaza correspondent, Rushdie Abu Alouf, who's currently in Cairo, has been getting reaction from the territory.
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Unnamed Correspondent
There is no formal response yet from Hamas, but those many of the people who I spoke to in Gaza today rejected the idea and also insisted that they will not leave their homes. I spoke to 76 years old man, he left Gaza. He said I was among those left Gaza back in 2023, in October with my family and granddaughters and grandsons, about 60 people. They said I will not repeat this mistake. I would rather die on Gaza City and not leave the south. He said we were told to leave to a safe area, but this safe area was bombed day and night and we were starving in the south and we will not leave. Very shocking news for the people of Gaza of this expansion of the operation. And you know, Israel did not allow any food, medicine or fuel into Gaza for a very long time since the war was resumed. So widespread rejection from those who have access to the Internet. They posted in social media saying that they will not leave their homes in northern Gaza into the south and they will resist the new Israeli plan to evacuate northern Gaza. Many people also I spoke to in Gaza City and the north where most of the houses were destroyed. They said we prefer to stay in tents over our house rather than leaving to the south.
- [08:38]
Janat Jalil
Rushdie Abu Alef next to Ukraine and the military has insisted that some of its forces are still active inside Russia's Kursk region, despite Russian claims last month that they'd all been driven out. This follows reports by Russian bloggers that Ukrainian troops had used a mine clearance vehicle to smash through the border. Our security correspondent Frank Gardner reports from Kyiv.
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Unnamed Correspondent
In a statement put out on Monday, Ukraine said nine months after the start of the Kursk operation, Ukraine's defence forces maintain a military presence on the territory of Russia's Kursk region. Ukraine originally made its lightning dash into the Kursk region last August in order to create a border buffer zone to protect the city of Sumy and its surroundings. It's also been hoping to use the small amount of territory it held inside Russia as a bargaining chip in future peace negotiations, hoping to trade it for a partial Russian withdrawal from Ukrainian territory. This now looks unlikely.
- [09:38]
Janat Jalil
Frank Gardner well, this latest Ukrainian advance comes as Russia has offered Kyiv a three day ceasefire starting from Thursday. An offer dismissed by Ukraine's President Zelensky as simply a theatrical show. Meanwhile, as Abdul Jalil Abu Rasulov reports, drones and robotic warfare are transforming the way the conflict is being fought.
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Unnamed Correspondent
At a remote location outside of Kyiv, I meet a group of engineers who are testing a new weapon. The invention looks like a mini tank, a small platform on wheels and a turret. This robot, nicknamed Predator, is designed to destroy both ground and aerial targets like drones. So the engineers put a drone up and immediately the monitor started beeping, indicating that there is a drone nearby. And then the artificial intelligence that is installed as part of the system immediately locked on that target. This allows the machine gun to automatically track the drone and destroy it. Petro, one of the developers of the Predator. The main idea is to design a remotely controlled weapon that allows soldiers to remain undercover on the battlefield. This is a big change when robots fight instead of humans. Already, most of the fighting in Ukraine is done by drones. They are transforming how the war is fought. There are no longer massive engagements involving a large number of troops and armored vehicles in Ukraine. Drones will spot any movement and destroy the target. Many weapons and tactics are quickly becoming obsolete. This is the sound of a kamikaze drone. First Lieutenant Yevgen Alchimov from Ukraine's 28th Brigade warns his soldiers to stay put. In a phone interview with the BBC, he explains how the role of infantry has changed. You don't have classical trenches. You cannot build anything on a zero line now, because the second you get your head out of the dugout, every drone is flying towards you and tried to kill you. Infantrymen are sitting in dugouts they do not observe because all observation is done by drones. War tactics have changed too. Motorbikes are now more often used on the frontline than tanks, since speed, mobility and size are crucial to avoid drone attacks. And some Ukrainian soldiers believe that Russia's proposal of a three day ceasefire is just another war tactic to rotate and resupply troops while all drones are grounded. Captain Oleksandr Yabchenko is from the battalion Da Vinci's Wolves. The previous ceasefire during the Easter was a deception. They indeed reduced the intensity of firing, but the very next day they attacked with all forces. This is not a ceasefire. This is a preparation for new offensives. Back in Kyiv, testing of the Predator ground robot vehicle is complete. Petrov hopes to start its mass production soon, and he believes Russia will stop its aggression only when Ukraine gets stronger.
- [13:34]
Janat Jalil
That report By Abdul Jalil Abdul Rasulov Sudan has been wracked by two years of civil war, but until Sunday, the key Red Sea coastal city of Port Sudan had not come under attack. Now the Sudanese military says that for the second day running, the rival paramilitary force the RSF has carried out a drone attack on Port Sudan, hitting a fuel depot on Monday. The military government is based in the city, which is also a center for humanitarian support, Will Ross reports.
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Unnamed Correspondent
Sudan's energy minister said the bombing of the oil depots was a deliberate attempt by the Rapid Support Forces to paralyze life in the city. Until these attacks, Port Sudan was a safe haven. It's home to the country's main seaport and airport. Two years of war have torn Sudan apart, dividing it into army and RSF held areas. 12 million people are displaced and there's widespread hunger. Using long range drones to target vital infrastructure will prolong the suffering.
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Janat Jalil
Will Ross Amid fears that India and Pakistan could be on the brink of war, an Indian official says the government has asked several states to conduct emergency civil defense drills. India blames Pakistan for an attack on tourists in Indian administered Kashmir in which 26 people were killed, including a man on his honeymoon. Islamabad denies involvement. Our South Asia regional editor Ambarasanitarajan has more details.
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Unnamed Correspondent
Kanchan Gupta, a senior advisor to the Indian Information Ministry, said the measures on Wednesday would include updating evacuation plans, checking air raid sirens and training civilians to protect themselves in case of attack. Pakistan has been making similar preparations in border areas. There are no direct diplomatic talks between the nuclear armed neighbors. Politicians from both sides have engaged in aggressive public posturing. There are concerns that they are playing a dangerous game with the risk of miscalculation. Fraught with danger some are worried that having inflamed passions, it may be difficult for politicians to row back. Pakistan and India have fought three wars over the disputed Kashmir region.
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Janat Jalil
Ambrasan Etirajan after the death of Pope Francis last month, all eyes are now on the Vatican this week where cardinals will be starting the centuries old and secretive process called the Conclave to elect the next pope. All 133 cardinals who are expected to vote have now arrived in Rome. They hail from all over the world, with many of them appointed by the late Pope. We've made a special edition of the Global News podcast which answers BBC World Service listeners questions on how the Conclave works. Our religion editor Alim Maqbool is in Rome for the special event.
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Unnamed Correspondent
It is the selection of a new pope. Of course, there have been popes now for nearly 2,000 years. It was the apostle of Jesus, Peter, who's considered by Catholics to be the first Pope, after whom St. Peter's Basilica, St. Peter's Square, is named. And there have subsequently been elections of popes since then.
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Janat Jalil
So that's a special episode of the Global News Podcast entitled How Will the Next Pope Be Chosen? You can find it wherever you get your podcast. Still to come, I think it's been wonderful and I do think it's so important that we remember, you know, what has happened and the people that gave their lives in the war. Commemorative events are held across Britain to mark 80 years since the end of the Second World War in Europe.
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Unnamed Correspondent
Foreign.
- [17:29]
Janat Jalil
You'Re listening to the Global News podcast. A man arrested over attacks on Syria's Alawite minority earlier this year has told the BBC there was coordination with the government as sectarian tensions again threatened to destabilize the country. Abu Khalid said he had traveled to a coastal region which is home to the Alawites in March with the knowledge of security forces who were fighting rebels loyal to the country's former president, Bashar Al Assad. Human rights groups estimate that some 900 civilians were killed during that wave of violence. Abu Khalid spoke to our Middle east correspondent Lucy Williamson. You may find her report distressing. Abu Khalid shuffled into the room handcuffed and blindfolded, keen to tell us his version of events. He said he'd traveled to Snobar in a group of civilians and that security forces had instructed them only to shoot insurgents who shot at them. They oversaw things, he said, so that no one would vandalize the village or harm the residents. The military police denied that security forces had coordinated with civilians. Abu Khalid filmed himself that day shooting dead 64 year old Mahmoud Yusuf Mohammed. He told us it was self defense and that Mahmoud was armed. But in the video, Abu Khalid is grinning and calling to Mahmoud to look at the camera before shooting him three times. He pursues him to the entrance of his house and shoots him again three times at close range while Mahmud is on the floor begging for his life. There is no weapon visible near him. The threat of sectarian conflict is growing in Syria, with minorities trust in the new government waning, the government's own allies divided over the country's future, and many Syrians impatient to seek justice for the crimes of the past. Lucy williamson but despite all of Syria's many problems after its devastating civil war. It's also enjoying new freedoms after the toppling of the repressive Assad political dynasty by hts Islamists. At the end of last year, Tim Franks visited a comedy club in the capital, Damascus.
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Unnamed Correspondent
Don't go there, they will kill you. It's open mic night at Karma Cafe and they're hosting a comedy club with, well, it's actually got an English name, Styria, which I've had the punchline explained to me. Even though I speak perfect English, it's a combination of Syria and hysteria.
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Janat Jalil
Actually, it's my first time I come.
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Unnamed Correspondent
Here with my friends, so actually I watch them on Instagram and I like the show so I came here to watch it live. Is it easier to laugh now? Yes, I think there's more freedom now. Now they can talk about anything they want. We all know that country like Lebanon, they can joke about anything and we couldn't do that on Al Assad, period. But now they can.
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Janat Jalil
Go for it, my love, go for it.
- [20:31]
Unnamed Correspondent
Do your work. We love America. America doesn't love us. And tonight's session of Styria has been organized by two chain smoking men. Sharif, he's the one with the trim beard and tattoos and Malky, he's the one talking at the moment. He's tall and by his own admission, slightly neurotic. And before the set began, I had a chance to catch up with both of them. My name is Sharif Hamzi, I'm from Damascus. My name is Malky Mardini and I'm from Damascus also. So we started from my room, you know, and with meeting you now and we're going to Lebanon next week. So basically this was a dream. Comedy is going to be a bridge between countries. But before it was impossible because of Bashar Al Assad, before you can build bridge with Iran and Russia. And they're not that funny because Iran, Russia is very good with bombing bridges, bombing culture. One, you know. Yeah, and. But you know, one of the things that surprised me when you first started talking to me was you saying that you've had a comedy club for the past two, two and a half years. But people don't associate the time of Bashar Al Assad with, I mean, comedy is about pushing the boundaries and it's about saying things that make people squirm a little bit. How did he do it? This is like me and him, we disagree a lot, but we agree on, on, on the comedy part, you know, because before I used to like to push the boundaries. Malky is little bit more careful and he's right. And I am right careful about our, you know, in Syria, a joke can kill you. Until now, I guess I. I had cases open against me, man. And we always know that someone might be watching from the government. And they came. In many ways, that pressure created diamonds, you know. And after the regime fall, we exploded. Like we were like. Are you feeling more relaxed, Malky? No, I'm never relaxed. Not ever. I do a lot of crowd work, I'm afraid. Anyone from the crowd could be secret servant, someone from a religious background, or someone, I don't know, gonna boom himself, I don't know. So we must be careful, you know, and don't know what will happen. I swear to God. Now, it's a lot of HTs in the streets, you know, you can't predict anything. But do you get a sense? I mean, are there still boundaries? Look, crowd do boundaries. The crowd is the one who we work for, not the government. I don't care about the government. If the crowd happy, we are happy. And that's it. Now we have red lines. Like, now it's more about. You can talk about the government, but you cannot touch religion that much, you know? Right.
- [23:21]
Janat Jalil
Stand up comics Malky and Sharif talking to Tim Franks in Damascus. Now to a murder trial in Australia that has made headlines around the world online. Friends of a woman who's been charged with killing three of her in laws by serving them a meal containing toxic mushrooms have told a court that she had boasted about hiding powdered mushrooms in food and had posted a photo of a food dehydrator in the days before the deadly lunch she hosted at her home. The chat group members had initially bonded over a shared interest in a murder case. Erin Patterson denies the charges and says the deaths were simply a tragic accident. Our Sydney correspondent, Katie Watson is following the case.
- [24:06]
Unnamed Correspondent
This is the second week of Erin Patterson's trial. And the day started with Simon Patterson, her estranged husband. This was the third day he was giving evidence and we got a bit more detail on the strained relationship between him, Erin and his parents, Don and Gail Patterson. And he remarked that it was odd that Erin Patterson hadn't actually asked about his parents condition in the hours after that fateful lunch back in July 2023, it stuck out that she hadn't inquired as to how ill they were. And then the afternoon we heard from several friends that Erin Patterson had met on an online group, she joined a true crime Facebook group. And these friends who hadn't met her in person but had got to know her over the course of a few years, talked about the fact that she was a devoted mother. And they also gave more detail into the relationship between Erin Patterson and her estranged husband Simon. One friend said that Erin had called the relationship controlling and coercive. And they went on to talk about the fact that she also was very enthusiastic about a dehydrator that she had bought. The court was shown pictures of this dehydrator that she used to dry mushrooms and included some of those mushrooms in recipes that she was making for her children. They also talked, one of them talked about the fact that she was an atheist. That's how she described herself, which was the first time the court had heard this, because the last few days we'd been hearing about the importance of the church and religion that played a part in the family's life. And one of her friends suggested that Erin was upset by the fact that Simon Paterson perhaps put church before his family.
- [25:49]
Janat Jalil
Katie Watson, Jury selection has begun in the trial of the rapper and hip hop mogul Sean Diddy Combs, who's facing charges of sex trafficking, racketeering and transportation to engage in prostitution. He denies all the charges against him and has turned down a plea deal, meaning that if he's found guilty, he could get a harsher sentence, possibly even life in prison. Our correspondent Nedda Torfik, who was outside the court in New York, told us the jury selection is likely to take some time given the rapper's fame.
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Unnamed Correspondent
It will be a lengthy process. No doubt the judge would have hoped to get through 150 people a day over the next several days to eventually seat a panel of 12 jurors and six alternates. What we've seen so far is that they've gone through a little bit less than 20 prospective jurors and they're questioning them in detail, talking to them about their knowledge of the case, whether they can be impartial, their views on music, artists in hip hop, whether they themselves have ever been a victim of sexual harassment, assault. So this is a detailed process and what we're seeing is that there is a real level of awareness of this case, of course, because of the nature of it being such a high powered celebrity. Most of the jurors have heard of the allegations, but many are saying they can still look at the facts and come to a conclusion on their own.
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Janat Jalil
And tell us more about these allegations.
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Unnamed Correspondent
Well, look, it was a year and a half ago that these allegations kind of first came to public awareness when Diddy's former partner, Cassie Ventura, the singer, put out a civil lawsuit against him, saying that he had forced her into drug fueled sexual encounters with male prostitutes, had filmed her on another occasion, occasion that he raped her and that he had been abusive towards her, had beat her physically violent. The allegations really startled the public because he had really presented this very fun loving personality Persona. He was really credited with elevating hip hop into the mainstream. And here we saw these allegations and what it set off was a federal investigation, several others accusing him of similar conduct. And after a raid on his homes in Miami and Los Angeles, then the arrest which has led to this federal criminal trial.
- [28:19]
Janat Jalil
Neda Torfik History was made on Monday at the World Sneaker Championship at the Crucible Theatre in the English city of Sheffield. Zhao Shing Tong beat the Welshman Mark Williams to become the first Chinese player ever to be crowned champion. The 28 year old only returned to the tour last year after he was sanctioned with a 20 month ban for becoming involved in a match fixing scandal. This was his reaction after the win. I can't believe that.
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Unnamed Correspondent
Yeah.
- [28:48]
Janat Jalil
Yes.
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Unnamed Correspondent
I can't believe what I do in this month.
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Janat Jalil
So, yeah, I'm very exciting.
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Unnamed Correspondent
Thank you.
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Janat Jalil
Well, Jason Ferguson is the chairman of the World Professional Billiards and Snooker association, the world governing body for snooker.
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Unnamed Correspondent
It has to be a testament to the character of the man. I mean, let's not forget this young man's been around for some time. He was about 14 years of age, entered an academy in Beijing, came through to the professional tour and really looked like he was going to rock it straight to the top. Just back then got caught up on the edges of a scandal. I must make it clear he wasn't charged with fixing a match himself and unfortunately that ended up in a ban. But I have to say, you know, since that time he's gone away, he's apologized to everybody. He was absolutely mortified and full of remorse and he's gone away, put his head down and he's come back here as an amateur player, you know, so the first amateur player to actually win the World Snooker Championship. Incredible. Snooker is huge in China. It's a really a national sport and it's treated as such. It's treated like any major international Olympic sport out there. Its structures are mature and working really well. It's in schools, universities. What this could do is really take it to another level. There are already over 300,000 billiard clubs in China officially, and I can tell you unofficially, the number must be much greater than that. What this would do is create a player, a national hero and I think the BBC's Rob Walker described it as, I think, snooker immortality and he would certainly go down in the history books.
- [30:24]
Janat Jalil
Jason Ferguson on the new snooker world champion, Joshin Tong. Commemorative events have been held across Britain to mark 80 years since the end of the Second World War in Europe. Huge crowds of people gathered near Buckingham palace in London to attend the Victory in Europe Day or VE Day military procession and flypast by current and historic military aircraft and the Red Arrows. The aerobatic team of the Royal Air Force. King Charles led members of the Royal family onto the Buckingham palace balcony to watch the flypast and wave to the crowds. The King hosted a tea party for some of the last living veterans, the youngest of whom are in their late 90s. It's the first of four days of celebration taking place across Britain. Helena Wilkinson watched the ceremony. Thousands of people from those who could remember the first fide to others learning about it in school, gathered to remember the sacrifices of the wartime generation. Then, a powerful moment to start the military procession between a serving member of the military and the 100 year old RAF veteran, Alan Kennett. Thank you and your generation for securing our freedom 80 years ago. May I have your permission to start the parade, sir? Please carry on, sir. The procession, which included more than 1,300 members of the armed forces, left Parliament Square and made its way to Buckingham palace past thousands of waving union flags and cheering crowds. Veterans watched from a special platform alongside King Charles who stood to salute. Afterwards, the Royal family made an appearance on the Buckingham palace balcony to prepare for a spectacular flypast. The historic Lancaster bomber was the first to roar over the palace, followed by the Red Arrows which sprayed red, white and blue smoke behind them. A special garden party was organised to end the day at Buckingham palace where royals from the King and Queen to Prince George joined veterans for a cake and a chat. His father, the Prince of Wales, said it was very important for the next generation to hear their stories. Joyce Wilding, who was 20 years old when the war in Europe ended, was at the party. Well, I think it's been wonderful and I do think it's so important that we remember, you know, what has happened, that the people that gave their lives in the war, because the younger generation don't all know about the times we went through, which were very difficult. On Thursday, a service will be held at Westminster Abbey and the nation will observe the traditional two minute silence. Helena Wilkinson reporting. And that's all from us for now, but there will be a new edition of the Globe Global News podcast later. Before we go we have a quick request. We want to hear where you're listening from so we can update our shiny new map in the office. You can email globalpodcastbc.co.uk with your town or city. And while you're there, feel free to leave us a voice note. Thanks to Robert from NEOM in Saudi Arabia, Maria from Durban, South Africa and Andrew from Katy, Intake, Texas in the US have all messaged us. This edition was mixed by Caroline Driscoll. The producer was Liam McSheffrey. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Janette Jalil. Until next time, Goodbye.