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Pope lying in state at St Peter's Basilica
00:30:54
Thousands of mourners are filing past Pope Francis's body
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- [00:00]
Alex Ritson
This is the global news podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Alex Ritson. And at 13 hours GMT on Wednesday, 23rd April, these are our main stories. Long queues are forming outside St. Peter's Basilica in Rome as pilgrims wait to file past the coffin of the late Pope Francis. The US Secretary of State cancels his trip to London for Ukraine peace talks with both sides far apart. Also in this podcast, this from the head of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas on Hamas.
- [00:39]
Sebastian Usher
Sons of dogs, just release whoever you're holding and be done with it. Shut down their excuses and spare us.
- [00:47]
Alex Ritson
And fines totaling $800 million. In Europe for US tech giants Apple and Meta. The doors of St. Peter's Basilica are open as thousands of Catholics from Rome and beyond line up to pay their respects to Pope Francis. His body lies in state in an open coffin, dressed in red robes and a white mitre. There he will remain until his funeral on Saturday. Bells rang and people applauded as the procession made its way through St. Peter's Square, led by Cardinal Kevin Farrell, who announced the death on Easter Monday as Camalingo. He gave a liturgy before the basilica was opened to the public for athletes. Ezel sorores carissimi magna cumanima common corpus pape nostro francesci. These mourners are among thousands of Catholics queuing outside the Vatican.
- [01:56]
Sebastian Usher
He's like a member of the family, isn't he?
- [01:58]
Ione Wells
Somebody very close to our heart, somebody who made the Church very accessible to.
- [02:02]
Sebastian Usher
Everybody and inclusive to everybody.
- [02:04]
Alex Ritson
And we were meant to have an audience with him today, and we will do, but not in the way that we expected. Pope Francis was an ordinary, beautiful man who lived his life as a follower of Jesus in his most sincere way.
- [02:19]
Ione Wells
I'm from Ghana.
- [02:20]
Sister Nathalie Bakkert
I think the Pope has done his. Now we are supposed to pray for him and also to continue the good works that he has done. Thank you.
- [02:32]
Chris Valance
Thank you for being a great shepherd. Thank you for guiding the church in this trying time. Thank you for being a peace builder. Thank you for being a face of Christ in the world.
- [02:43]
Alex Ritson
Our correspondent Sarah Rainsford is in Vatican City.
- [02:46]
Sebastian Usher
I think you can probably hear the sound behind me that the crowds here. I haven't seen it like this since the news of the Pope's death. There is really a big crowd building here and there's a huge queue that is coiling around St. Peter's Square, going back and forth. It's actually quite hard to actually tell where the end of that queue is, but I can see the. The beginning, the front of the queue and it's a long way away on the steps of St. Peter's so people here are going to be standing under the sunshine for several hours before they get anywhere near the basilica and a chance, of course, to then file past the coffin of the Pope and to say their goodbyes and to say their prayers. Talking to people here, you know, that's clearly why they've come. I spoke to one family who'd broken off a holiday in northern Italy, an Irish family who had taken the train and rushed here to St. Peter's Square because they wanted this, this moment. They wanted to say goodbye and to say thank you to Pope Francis. They talked about a humane pope as they're from Ireland. They said also it was important that Pope Francis had come to their country and had apologized for the sexual abuse scandal, child sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church in Ireland. They felt that was really important. That's why they respected Pope Fr. And they wanted to say their goodbyes, that everyone here has their own reason for being here. But, of course, all of them brought together by a deep affection, I would say, for Pope Francis.
- [04:05]
Alex Ritson
And Sarah, more details have been coming through about the funeral on Saturday.
- [04:10]
Sebastian Usher
Well, the funeral on Saturday will follow these. These three days of lying in state. So the Pope will lie in his coffin, a simple wooden coffin on ground level in St. Peter's Basilica for three days to give all these people their best chance of seeing the Pope and saying goodbye. Important to note, I think, the symbolism of that. Pope Francis has adapted the service here, the rituals, the traditions. He wanted to be on a level with the people rather than above them. And that, I think, is symbolic of how he tried to lead the Church during his papacy. In terms of the funeral, it will, of course, be a giant international affair. There will be world leaders here, from Donald Trump to the leader of France, the British Prime Minister. There'll be royalty here from Spain and from the uk. They'll all be here, of course, with many, many thousands of Catholics who are expecting to cram into the square here. The service itself, the funeral service will be on St. Peter's Square. But then the Pope's coffin, he will be taken to another church in the centre of Rome to be buried.
- [05:10]
Alex Ritson
Sarah Rainsford. In his home country of Argentina, masses and memorials are being held to honour the first pontiff from America, from the church where he once served, to the football team he passionately supported. He never made it back to Argentina during his papacy, but he left a legacy there of someone who helped the most vulnerable in society. From Buenos Aires, here's our South America correspondent, Ione Wells.
- [05:40]
Chantal Hartley
Outside the cathedral here in the center of Buenos Aires, a man has etched the face of Pope Francis into the street with chalk, candles, posters and photos plastered to the front of the building. One here reads that he reminded us in La Inglesia hay lugar paratoros todos todos. In the church there is room for everyone. Everyone, everyone.
- [06:04]
Ione Wells
He brought us closer to the church because many of us were skeptical of a lot of things.
- [06:09]
Chantal Hartley
Everyone here has memories of him, many personal, like this woman's from his time as Archbishop of Buenos Aires.
- [06:18]
Ione Wells
I'd met him on the subway once. Obviously he was Jorge Bergoglio then. He was very empathetic.
- [06:24]
Chantal Hartley
It was wonderful for many, like this missionary from Indonesia who's lived in Argentina for 15 years. He leaves a legacy of tolerance and inclusion.
- [06:36]
Ione Wells
He's a Pope for everyone. He went to Indonesia last year. He even inaugurated tunnel from the cathedral in Jakarta to the mosque for Muslims. What an image of tolerance.
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Chantal Hartley
This woman, who migrated to Argentina from Venezuela during its economic and political crisis, said he encouraged empathy.
- [06:55]
Sister Nathalie Bakkert
Como venezolana me sentia. As a Venezuelan, I felt deeply proud that we had a Latin American Pope. The day he was appointed, we celebrated a lot in Venezuela and today we felt a great loss. He was very concerned about the migrants that were losing their lives, many lives. He always emphasized that aspect of migration. He was always a great human being.
- [07:24]
Chantal Hartley
He might be best remembered here for his work helping the poor, visiting soup kitchens, prisons, advocating for wealth redistribution. But locals here remember him too as a fan of his local football club, San Lorenzo. Oscar Luccini is the architect of the chapel at the football ground.
- [07:43]
Sebastian Usher
Imagine that the first archbishop from Argentina is also a member of your club. For us it was an important honor, and for him it was a pleasure. Something he wanted to do in his life. His father was a basketball player for San Lorenzo, so he inherited his fandom for the club.
- [08:10]
Chantal Hartley
Through years of hardship. Some Argentines here feel sad that he never returned to his home country as Pope. There's a speculation he feared a visit becoming politicized, with some conservatives accusing him of being too aligned with social justice and left wing politics. A supporter paying respect at his former church felt he was wise not to visit.
- [08:30]
Sister Nathalie Bakkert
He would have been implicated in all the problems we have here in Argentina. The criticism bothers me because politicians criticize him. They would like to use him. I think it's great that he didn't come to Argentina. This country is very political.
- [08:48]
Chantal Hartley
His views, his outspokenness and at times. His criticism of politicians was as divisive here as it was globally. But one thing that unites people in Argentina is their memory of him as a local who grew up in a house in the city close to the people that he served and the problems that they knew.
- [09:05]
Alex Ritson
Ione Wells reporting from Buenos Aires. And if you have any questions about how the new pope is chosen, we're planning a special conclave edition of the Global News podcast. We'll examine the process, the timetable, who looks likely to succeed Pope Francis, and what changes might be in store for the Catholic Church. Send us a voicemail or an email to globalpodcastbc.co.uk. you can also find us on XBCWorldService. Use the hashtag globalnewspod. The US Vice President has said explicit proposals have been issued to both Russia and Ukraine as Washington pushes for an end to the war. J.D. vance said it was time for both to agree, warning that if not the US Would walk away from the process.
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Sebastian Usher
We put together a very fair proposal.
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Chris Valance
We're going to see if the Europeans.
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Sebastian Usher
The Russians and the Ukrainians are ultimately.
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Chris Valance
Able to get this thing over the finish line.
- [10:06]
Sebastian Usher
I feel pretty optimistic about it.
- [10:07]
Chris Valance
I think everybody has been negotiating in.
- [10:09]
Sebastian Usher
Good faith, but it's now time, I.
- [10:11]
Chris Valance
Think, to take, if not the final step, one of the final steps.
- [10:15]
Alex Ritson
Earlier, a high level meeting in London between the US And Ukraine and some of its main European allies was downgraded. Our Europe regional editor, Danny Eberhardt told me what this means.
- [10:27]
Danny Eberhardt
Well, effectively the talks were going to be attended by the US Secretary of State, Marco Rubio and the main envoy for Russian talks from President Trump, Steve Witkoff. They both pulled out of the talks and then effectively the British foreign secretary, for example, won't be attending now and the talks will be held behind closed doors at a technical level between officials. So very much not the sort of talks that we saw, for example, last week in France, which were much more high level. This is clearly a bad move from a European perspective. It's a step backwards. It signals that there's a lot of discontent about the state of the talks as they exist at the moment. Now, J.D. vance, the US vice president, he said that a very explicit proposal has been issued to both the Russians and the Ukrainians, and it's time for them to either say yes to those proposals or for the United States to walk away from the process. We don't know for sure what some of those proposals are, but the media reports, some of which was the idea that US could recognize Crimea as sovereign Russian territory. That's a non starter for Kyiv. It's a non starter for Europeans allies of Ukraine. It could be that the US is pushing for territorial concessions, that Ukraine would de facto recognize the state of play in eastern and southern Ukraine and other things. For example Ukraine renouncing ambitions to join NATO.
- [12:01]
Alex Ritson
Danny Eberhard the tech giants Apple and Meta have been ordered to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in fines by the European Commission for violating new digital laws in the eu. It's the first time penalties have been handed down under Europe's Digital Markets act, which aims to preserve fairness and and competition in the tech industry. Our technology reporter Chris Valance told me about the reasons these companies are being punished.
- [12:28]
Chris Valance
Apple's 500 million euro fine was essentially over its app store and rules that prevented app makers from pointing to cheaper options outside of Apple's own store, whether on websites or in other services. It said it would appeal the decision. Pretty strong reply. It said it was an unfair decision that was bad for the privacy and security of its users, bad for products, and forced the company to give away its technology for free. And it said it had tried to work with the commission, but accused the commission of essentially moving the goalposts every step of the way. So a pretty strong response there. And the Meta Meta's 200 million fine was essentially about advertising. The Commission was unhappy that if users wanted to avoid cookies that are a key part of how the company's platform's targeted ads are served, they faced essentially a sort of a binary choice, if you like, either accept the ads or pay a subscription. So that was the reason behind that fine. Again, a strong response from the company. It said that the European Commission was attempting to handicap a successful American business. The commission was forcing it to change its business model, effectively imposing a multibillion dollar tariff on the company, it said, while requiring it to offer an inferior service. So again, a pretty feisty response from Meta.
- [14:00]
Alex Ritson
These fines come to major US Companies just as Donald Trump is of course ramping up tariffs on foreign imports. Is this a tit for tat or actually, could these fines have been a lot worse?
- [14:11]
Chris Valance
Well, the fines could certainly have been a lot worse. You know, there are within the Digital Markets act you can fine percentages of annual revenue, which would be much more than these fines. As to whether there's a link to tariffs, well, the EU explicitly denies this. We remains to be seen whether the White House will see it the same way. But I think it is significant that that Facebook that matter response mentioned tariffs and the White House has been very negative about EU fines and EU regulations. I mean, in February, it issued a memorandum that was titled defending American Companies and Innovators from Overseas Extortion an UNFIN fines and penalties. So you don't need to read the memo to kind of get the drift of that. And Mark Zuckerberg earlier this year said he looked forward to working with Trump to sort of counter excessive EU regulation of his American business. So it'll be interesting to see the reaction from White House officials.
- [15:13]
Alex Ritson
Chris Valance, Coming up, we look at the success of YouTube on its 20th birthday.
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Ione Wells
300 videos uploaded to YouTube every minute and more than 5 billion of them viewed every single day.
- [15:36]
Alex Ritson
In a scathing attack on Hamas in Gaza, the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas had this to say.
- [15:46]
Chris Valance
Sons of dogs, just release whoever you're holding and be done with it.
- [15:51]
Sebastian Usher
Shut down their excitement excuses and spare us.
- [15:55]
Alex Ritson
Speaking in Ramallah in the west bank, the leader of the Palestinian Authority said the militant group must also give up responsibility for Gaza and hand over its weapons to the Palestinian Authority. He was also sharply critical of the Israelis and the Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. The BBC's Sebastian Asher in Jerusalem told me more.
- [16:16]
Aaron Daimukherjee
Well, I think to be honest, much of what else he said, he said before, I think what's actually got the attention and I mean the Palestinians and Bey is the tone in which he spoke. This is the strongest, fiercest way that he's spoken against Hamas since the Gaza war erupted. I mean, this is an 89 year old man, remember, who hasn't faced any elections for years and years and years heading a Palestinian Authority that most Palestinians in the occupied west bank see as an irrelevance. So he's been trying to reestablish that relevance, been trying to insist time and time again that the PA is ready to take the reins in Gaza if and when the war ends. Israel doesn't accept that. Some of the international community does favor that, but he's not coming from a great position of strength there. The issues between Hamas and the PA go back, of course, decades. They had a violent confrontation back in 2007 when Hamas took complete control of Gaza. They've never healed their differences since then. But this tone is new and certainly, I mean, Palestinians that I've been speaking to essentially saying, well, the old man seems to have woken up.
- [17:26]
Alex Ritson
He also had some choice words for the Israelis.
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Aaron Daimukherjee
Well, again, that's par for the course. And I mean, what he was saying about Hamas and his attack on them was that what Hamas is doing by keeping the hostages and he said this about their massacres on October 7, 2023, was that it was giving Israel an excuse to carry on its strategy against the Palestinians, not just in Gaza, but in the occupied west bank as well. And that was really the message that he was sending.
- [17:53]
Alex Ritson
Sebastian Usher. There's a huge manhunt underway in Indian administered Kashmir. A day after at least 26 people were killed in an attack on domestic tourists. Gunmen burst out of forests and opened fire on visitors with automatic weapons. India's Home Affairs Minister, Amit Shah has visited the Himalayan resort of Pahalgam where there is outrage on the streets after the attack. These people took part in protests. Whoever has done this, he is an enemy of Kashmir.
- [18:23]
Ione Wells
He is an enemy of our soil.
- [18:25]
Chris Valance
And in no case should this go unpunished.
- [18:27]
Alex Ritson
I wish I had a stronger word than this word condemn. I wish there was some bigger word. Word condemn probably is not sufficient for this, what has happened today in Kashmir. But my hope is the people of India know what Kashmiris are, what we believe as Kashmir, how we have always treated our guests from India. The shootings coincided with US Vice President J.D. vance's visit to the country. The Indian Prime Minister, Narendra Modi is to hold an emergency cabinet meeting. Arunde Mukherjee reports from Delhi.
- [18:58]
Chris Valance
Narendra Modi, who cut short a visit to Saudi Arabia to return to Delhi, has sent a tough message, saying those behind the attack will not be spared. There's been no official confirmation yet on who was involved, but some reports have pointed to an organization based in Pakistan. Pakistan's Defence Minister, though, has denied his country had any role. The attack has sparked protests in the city of Srinagar. There are concerns that tourism, a key source of revenue for the region, could be hit. India and Pakistan both claim Kashmir, but control only parts of it. Since the 1990s, an armed separatist insurgency against Indian rule in Kashmir has claimed tens of thousands of lives, including civilians and security forces.
- [19:39]
Alex Ritson
Aaron Daimukherjee, the US senior adviser for Africa, has told the BBC he believes a peace settlement in the conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo is likely. Massad Boulos recently traveled to the region and met the Congolese President Felix Tshishakedi and the Rwandan leader Paul Kagame.
- [19:59]
Chris Valance
We think that it's very likely because both sides are serious and they've shown their interest and we've seen some steps taken in recent weeks. For example, the Doha summit between the two presidents, this took place just few weeks ago and they had not met one on one for at least three years. We've also seen another sign which is quite positive in the last couple of weeks. It's the withdrawal of the M23 from the town of Walikali, which was affecting one of our major interests there, one of the biggest tin mines in the world al famine. And they withdrew for more than 100km east. And for the first time, we're seeing such withdrawal, such retreat.
- [20:55]
Alex Ritson
MASSAD Boulos US Senior Advisor for Africa let's return to the reaction following the death of Pope Francis. During his papacy, Pope Francis was known for his progressive stance on social justice, care for the poor, and his efforts to modernize aspects of the Catholic Church, including expanding the role of women. While he made historic moves, such as appointing women to senior Vatican roles and granting them voting rights in the synod, many still debate how far his reforms truly went. Let's hear now from the Vatican, from Sister Nathalie Bakkert. She's the first woman to hold the position of under secretary for the General Secretariat of the Synod at the Vatican, and the first to have voting rights in the synod, too. Lukwisa Burak asked for her reflections on the pope's death.
- [21:46]
Sister Nathalie Bakkert
I was on St Peter Square for Mass, Easter mass on Sunday. He was fragile, but of course it was a shock. And he's like someone from the family, because he was so close to everybody, especially the poor, but also close to those who were working with him at the Vatican. So we are now experiencing this time of mourning, but also giving thanks for his life and all he has given to the world and to the church until the end.
- [22:17]
Sebastian Usher
And he gave to women as well. So I'd like to know, under his leadership, what did it mean for you?
- [22:25]
Sister Nathalie Bakkert
Well, it was a surprise. And through me, you know, he really wanted to underline the importance of having women in leadership, not only at the Vatican, but at all levels of the church. And after me, continued to name other women in leadership, including as number one of some dicastery or the governorate of the Vatican. And for him, he really said many times that there is a need to move forward and to be together as men and women as well as young and older in the church. And he knew, and he was repeating also that every time he's asking a woman to be in leadership, things are going better, and not only for the church. He was also convinced that for peace buildings, the key is to involve women. And that was a man really who doing all his pontificate, was calling for peace, peace building, dialogue, justice, because that's.
- [23:32]
Sebastian Usher
The way was his approach to how he wanted the church to move forward. And your appointment to those positions, was it welcomed by other members of the church?
- [23:44]
Sister Nathalie Bakkert
I think it was well welcomed by many. And I was so touched when I was appointed by so many. So many messages I received from all over the world and not only from women or sisters, because they could feel it's not me, but through me they could feel also they are part of the mission of the church and they already are. But also I received many messages from priests, from bishops, from cardinals, and you know, through the synod. One of the mentors topic that was coming really from the listening of all the people who take part to the consultation from all over the world. It was an urgent call to give more participation for women in the church, especially in governance.
- [24:29]
Alex Ritson
Sister Nathalie Beckwart, the first woman to hold the position of under Secretary for the General Secretariat of the Synod at the Vatican. In 2005, as camera phones gained popularity, three friends in California stumbled upon a problem. They wanted to send videos to each other, but there was no easy way. How so? They invented their own YouTube. 20 years later, the platform has 2.5 billion monthly active users across more than 100 countries. On its 20th birthday, Chantal Hartley looks back at the success of YouTube.
- [25:08]
Ione Wells
The numbers are staggering. 300 videos uploaded to YouTube every minute and more than 5 billion of them viewed every single day. It's the go to place for everything from music videos and tutorials to gaming, live streams and documentaries. But 20 years ago today, it was this 19 second grainy video clip that started it all.
- [25:32]
Aaron Daimukherjee
Alright, so here we are in front of the elephants. Cool thing about these guys is that they have really, really, really long fronts and that's cool.
- [25:45]
Sebastian Usher
And that's pretty much all there is to say.
- [25:47]
Ione Wells
That's YouTube co founder Javid Karim describing the elephants at San Diego Zoo. The first ever video to be uploaded onto the site. Suddenly it was possible for anyone, anywhere with a camera to share videos, no matter how silly the content. As YouTuber Casper Lee explains, it was this format that made the platform a more attractive option for those job in television. When you build a YouTube channel, being.
- [26:12]
Sebastian Usher
Able to have that instant feedback from hundreds, if not thousands, if not millions of people is really powerful. It really allows you to make something.
- [26:22]
Ione Wells
Very unique and different to maybe what.
- [26:23]
Sebastian Usher
You could have done through the traditional gatekeeping of TV.
- [26:27]
Ione Wells
In 2006, YouTube was sold to Google for $1.65 billion. This allowed the site to monetize video, generating not only huge profits for Google, but also providing content creators with a share of the cash I don't care if this takes weeks, months or even a year.
- [26:45]
Sebastian Usher
The last one of you to leave your circle wins that $500,000.
- [26:49]
Alex Ritson
The rules are simple.
- [26:51]
Ione Wells
Today, the highest paid YouTuber worldwide is MrBeast, known for his high production videos of challenges, stunts and cash giveaways. Forbes estimates that the American creator earned $85 million last year, but the views his videos attract are nowhere near the most watched YouTube video of all time. Baby Shark India has the largest YouTube audience worldwide with approximately 491 million users, followed by the US and Brazil. It is by far the most common type of TV viewership in the us, surpassing traditional TV and film streaming services. And the way people are watching videos has changed too. YouTube says viewers are now much more likely to be watching content on TV rather than on their phones. Despite its success, YouTube hasn't escaped the challenges facing other social media sites. It's been criticised for allowing hate speech, misinformation and conspiracy theories to spread. The company says it's introduced stricter content moderation policies to counter this. So what does its Future look like? YouTube chief executive Neil Mohan recently said the company hasn't even touched the tip of the iceberg of what it can do with artificial intelligence.
- [28:06]
Alex Ritson
Shantal Hartle reporting. Winning an Oscar is considered the highest accolade in the film industry. But how would it feel if you knew Academy members voted for you without watching your film or any of the others in your category? In a major shift to voting rules, Academy members will now have to prove they've watched all nominated films in a category before they're allowed to vote. The move is aimed at improving the integrity and credibility of the awards process. As I heard from Ella Bicknell, at.
- [28:40]
Ella Bicknell
The core of this policy, Alex, is the simple belief if you haven't seen the films, you're unable to judge which is best and therefore probably shouldn't be voting on them. And the Academy, they're saying all of this is to stop what they call coattail voting. So that's voting in a way that awards maybe the actors and directors you're more familiar with, maybe ones you've worked with before, or maybe you're best friends with. And they want members to be more open mind and not to overlook those smaller films that don't have those massive marketing budgets. And in their defence, they say it's not about seeing every movie, just the nominees and the categories you choose to vote on. And there is lots of crossover too. So, for example, this year's 2025 Oscars, the 10 films nominated for best picture. If you saw them all, you'd be eligible to vote in formal categories like director, actress, supporting actress and film editing.
- [29:28]
Alex Ritson
It does seem incredible, though, that people who are voting weren't perhaps watching all the films. Yes.
- [29:34]
Ella Bicknell
So the Academy's view that if they're to remain, in their words, the most prestigious and coveted awards ceremony in Hollywood, they need accountability like this. So the way they're doing this is through this private streaming platform called the Academy Screening Room. The only criticism that has been sort of raised is that it means things like premieres, festivals, or even a trip to your local cinema won't count. You have to watch it basically on a laptop. But on the whole, the Academy says there's been no complaints and the feedback is overwhelmingly positive for this accountability to be brought forward into its membership.
- [30:08]
Alex Ritson
Ella Bicknell. And that's all from us for now. But there'll be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is Global PodcastBC. You can also find us on X@bbcworldservice. Use the hashtag globalnewspod. This edition was mixed by Masoud Ibrahim Khayl, and the producer was Tracy Gordon. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Alex Ritson. Until next time. Goodbye.