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Global News Podcast
Putin apologises over plane crash, without saying Russia is at fault
00:30:50
The Azerbaijan Airlines jet crash-landed near Aktau in Kazakhstan
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- [00:00]
Nick Miles
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Nicola Coughlan
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Nick Miles
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Steve Rosenberg
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- [01:04]
Nick Miles
18 plus terms and conditions apply. This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Nick Miles and in the early hours of Sunday, 29th December, these are our main stories. President Putin has issued a rare apology after the Azerbaijan Airlines crash on Wednesday, but stopped short of confirming that Russian missiles broke brought down the plane. Lebanon has expelled dozens of former Syrian military figures who'd fled across the border as the new authorities in Damascus pursue supporters of the deposed president. Bashar al Assad, an influential Sufi religious leader, has been kidnapped in northern Mali. Also in this podcast, Magnus Carlsen certainly shifted the image of chess grandmasters, and at the Rapid Chess Tournament in New York, he refused a demand to wear smart trousers. A problem at a major chess event, the wearing of jeans. The Russian president Vladimir Putin has apologized to Azerbaijan's president for the crash of an Azerbaijan Airlines plane, describing it as what he called a tragic incident in Russian airspace. It's been widely claimed that Russia accidentally shot the plane down as it tried to land in Grozny on Wednesday, but Mr. Putin did not accept direct Russian responsibility. According to Kremlin reports of the conversation, Mr. Putin added that there needed to be an objective and transparent investigation from Moscow. Our Russia editor Steve Rosenberg reports. According to the Kremlin readout of their conversation, President Putin apologized to President Aliyev for what the Kremlin calls a tragic incident in Russian airspace and expressed condolences to the families of the dead. 38 people were killed when Azerbaijan Airlines Flight 8243 had, having failed to land at Grozny Airport in the Russian North Caucasus, was redirected over the Caspian Sea to Kazakhstan, where it crash landed. The Embraer 190 is widely believed to have been damaged by missiles fired by a Russian air defense system. In the Kremlin readout, there is no direct admission by Moscow that the plane had indeed been struck by a Russian missile. The Kremlin mentions that at the time the Azerbaijan Airlines plane had been trying to land in Grozny, Russian air defenses had been repelling a Ukrainian drone attack. Still, this is the closest Russia has come so far to admitting it was responsible for the disaster. Steve Rosenberg in Russia so is the mention of active Russian air defense systems in the area at the time as close as one can get to actually saying we did it, albeit by mistake? Where does the statement lie? Between an expression of sorrow and an admission of guilt? I heard more from Andrei Vladov of BBC Monitoring.
- [03:58]
Andrei Vladov
It lies somewhere in between. Because it is very rare for Putin to apologize. This tragedy happened in Russian airspace, but actually the plane crashed in Kazakhstan. What he appears to be apologizing is, and he promised full cooperation in the investigation, is that something happened in airspace that caused the crash of the plane. He didn't mention what, but clearly the Kremlin statement points out that the Russian air defenses were working to repel Ukrainian drill. So in a way, it could be seen as an admission that the thing that caused the plane to crash happened in Russian airspace. Also, there's been this flurry of activity. Putin not only speaking on the phone to Yohan, the Azerbaijan president, but he also spoke to Tokayev, who's the president of Kazakhstan. And something very interesting appeared there. It says that the two presidents agreed that the Kazakh government commission that investigates the incident, it will invol experts from Russia, Azerbaijan, but also Brazil, in decoding the flight recorders. And it specifically states that this work carried out on the territory of Kazakhstan will be objective and transparent, which means that the Russian side is doing everything to show that it is cooperating, that it is helping, that it is doing this in goodwill. And possibly what we can read in this is that if they are guilty of something, this must have been done by accident.
- [05:27]
Nick Miles
And Andrei, do you expect this to be the final statement for now anyway, until the investigation is concluded?
- [05:35]
Andrei Vladov
I mean, at first the Kremlin Putin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, declined any comment and said, yes, we're going to wait. We have to wait for the investigation to come up with clear conclusions. And then Suddenly, yesterday, the head of Russian State Aviation Agency Rosso Viacek comes up and gives all these details, saying that there was dense fog, but also Russian air defenses were firing. The same thing that Putin repeated today in the Kremlin statement that was published on the Kremlin website. So there have been more and more details emerging. So, yes, I think we could expect that more is to come, depending on what the reaction in Azerbaijan would be. And they've been called by MPs, by parliamentarians there for Russia to apologize officially, probably this is Moscow answer now this Putin statement.
- [06:24]
Nick Miles
Andrei Vladov from BBC Monitoring. A Ukrainian official has told the BBC they hope a new year prisoner exchange with Russia will happen any day, although arrangements can fall through at the last minute. Petro Yatsenko from Ukraine's Headquarters for the Treatment of Prisoners of War said negotiations with Moscow have become more difficult in recent months since Russian forces began making significant advances on the front lines. Thousands of relative relatives of Ukrainian prisoners are now spending Christmas without their loved ones. From Kyiv, our correspondent Will Vernon reports.
- [07:10]
Will Vernon
A Christmas Day concert in Kyiv. The dancers of the National Operetta Theatre perform the Blue Danube Waltz, originally composed by Johann Strauss in 1866 to lift the Austrian public spirits after a war. It's a festive favorite for Ukrainians exhausted by their conflict. Backstage getting ready dancer Lilia, who's spending her third Christmas without her boyfriend Bogdan. He was captured by Russian forces 2½ years ago. She hasn't heard from him since.
- [07:59]
Andrei Vladov
Bogdan is very kind, very caring. He really loves cats, just like I do.
- [08:06]
Will Vernon
How is it spending the third Christmas without Bogdan?
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Andrei Vladov
The Christmas holidays are a painful time. If you want to celebrate, then you should. But without forgetting that we need to support our soldiers.
- [08:23]
Will Vernon
Liliya still sends little hearts to Bohdan's phone almost every day. The messages are unread.
- [08:29]
Nick Miles
I hope he come back and read this.
- [08:38]
Will Vernon
It's pretty noisy, as you can hear drivers sounding their horns in support of the several hundred people who have gathered here in the wintry heart of Kyiv to stage a special Christmas demonstration in support of the thousands of Ukrainians who remain in captivity this Christmas. For the Turas family, the wait is over. It's their first Christmas together. Husband and wife. Andre and Lena served in the Ukrainian military and were both captured in 2022. Lena, who was pregnant, was released after two weeks, but Andriy was set free only recently. He spent two and a half years as a prisoner in Russia.
- [09:27]
Will Ross
They beat us mercilessly with sticks on their fists and feet. The food was horrifying. Rotten fish heads and sour cabbage. I thought about my wife constantly. I remembered her smell and was desperately hoping to receive a letter from her.
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Nicola Coughlan
The most important thing is to make sure our son has a happy Christmas.
- [09:50]
Will Ross
We want to spend these holidays together and feel the warmth of being a family.
- [09:56]
Will Vernon
While the BBC can't independently verify everything Lena and Andrii told us, their accounts are corroborated by international organizations who have interviewed hundreds of Ukrainian POWs. In a statement, the Russian authorities told us allegations of mistreatment of prisoners were false and captured Ukrainian militants were treated humanely according to the Geneva Convention.
- [10:20]
Nick Miles
That report by Will Vernon in Ukraine, Lebanon has expelled around 70 people, including officers and soldiers believed to have escaped there from neighboring Syria. The new authorities in Damascus had been conducting an operation against what they described as remnants of the Assad regime. Local media reported that the soldiers of various ranks were found in a truck in the northern coastal city of Jbeil and had been sent back to Syria. Many senior Syrian officials and people close to the former ruling family of Bashar al Assad are alleged to have escaped to Lebanon after Mr. Assad was toppled early this month. This latest handover by Lebanon of the soldiers belonging to the former Assad regime seems to have been captured, captured on video posted on social media, although not so far verified by the BBC. Ben James spoke to our Middle east regional editor Sebastian Asha, who's in the Syrian capital, Damascus, about what the videos appear to show.
- [11:19]
Steve Rosenberg
Well, there have been a couple videos now which show lines of men walking among armed Syrian fighters, presumably from hts. This is, we believe, that the Alarida border crossing between the two countries. It's a really desolate, windswept, rainy. And what we have heard from a variety of sources is that they are members of President Assad's forces, officers and soldiers, and maybe also some members of their family. And the reports that we have had, again, this hasn't all been officially confirmed, but from various security officials that they were found during an inspection of a truck in Jebail, which is a town in the north of Lebanon. And they are among a pretty sizable number of Syrians connected to the Assad regime who crossed the border into Lebanon. There have also been people who've crossed into Iraq. And it's the first cooperation between the Lebanese security officials and the new Syrian authorities in this drive by the new powers to round up essentially as many of the kind of leading regime officials that they can in order to bring them to justice. And we've seen this in Syria itself. In the west, in Tartus, particularly, where there's been in some ways almost a kind of manhunt that's been going on that has caused some unrest there as well amongst the Alawite community to which the Assads belong.
- [13:01]
Nick Miles
But nothing yet from the Syria. Syrian authorities on this particular group, have they said anything more generally about what justice might look like for people who are found to have been involved in the Assad regime?
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Steve Rosenberg
I mean, what they're saying in public is that they want people to be brought to proper justice, so that implies that there'll be trials, and they don't want Syrians themselves to take justice into their hands, to commit acts of personal revenge. I mean, there have been videos circulating, again, none of them really confirmed, of some lynchings. So there is a concern inside Syria and obviously outside, that this drive for justice against the Assad regime doesn't degenerate into essentially a form of revenge in which violence becomes the main way that it's meted out. I mean, that would be seen obviously, as a failure of the new authorities to impose their idea of law, of a new free Syria, where they say people can breathe easily, which is what one hears on the streets.
- [14:12]
Nick Miles
And as for Lebanon, a country which has been under a great deal of strain in a great deal of ways, for all sorts of reasons, are they pretty keen to assist in whatever way they can to return people who may have been associated with the Assad regime to Syria, since they've been shouldering a lot of burden of refugees and others for so many years?
- [14:34]
Steve Rosenberg
I mean, I think they're keen to establish a new relationship with Syria that the government, the authorities want to open a new page one in which Syria, and this is what the new de facto leader of Syria, Ahmad Al Sharif, said that Syria will no longer have a negative influence in Lebanon. So this kind of cooperation would be an effort to show from the Lebanese side that they're willing to help the authorities, and the hope would be that that would build confidence.
- [15:05]
Nick Miles
Sebast in the Syrian capital, Damascus, apologies for the quality of the telephone connection there. Next to northern Gaza. The UN agency, the World Health Organization, has criticized an Israeli raid on the last remaining hospital in the area, warning that the lack of medical facilities was close to a death sentence for patients. A senior Palestinian official said staff at the Kamal Adwan hospital had been threatened and the premises had been cleared. Israel described the site as a Hamas terrorist stronghold. Hold. Our correspondent Emir Nada reports from Jerusalem.
- [15:42]
Will Ross
After weeks in which staff issued desperate pleas to be protected from Israeli military strikes, in and around its building. Palestinian officials say the Kamal Adwan hospital now lies empty. Gaza's deputy health Minister told the BBC that around 100 of the staff were interrogated overnight, with some receiving humiliating treatment. A number have been released while others continue to be detained, including the hospital's director, Dr. Hossama Bou. Sofia Medical staff report around 25 patients with acute needs were transferred to a nearby hospital that was itself evacuated by the Israeli military early this week and is badly damaged. It is reported to have no oxygen or water. Tarek Jasherevic from the World Health Organization says he's deeply concerned by what's happened.
- [16:22]
Nick Miles
There is almost nothing left in the.
- [16:24]
Andrei Vladov
North of Gaza and people who are still there will simply have no option to receive any medical care.
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Nick Miles
And for people who are injured, that's.
- [16:34]
Andrei Vladov
Close to the death sentence.
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Nick Miles
Israel said yesterday that the Kemal Adwan hospital was a Hamas terrorist stronghold, but.
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Will Ross
Didn'T provide specific detail or evidence.
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Nick Miles
The military denied responsibility for a fire.
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Will Ross
That broke out in the hospital during the evacuation.
- [16:47]
Nick Miles
Emir Nada in Jerusalem. Saturday was a day of national mourning in India. The sound there of guards carrying the coffin of the former Prime Minister Manmohan sing through the streets of Delhi as crowds watched on. He died at the age of 92. He was considered to be the man behind India's 21st century economic rise. Many politicians were present to share words of mourning, including the current Prime Minister, Narendra Modi. But despite his special status in Indian society, Mr. Singh was commemorated in a typical way, cremated outside along with others who had recently died with their families. Also watching on, our correspondent Arunode Mukherjee was there. He told us more about the Indian tradition of cremation.
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Arunode Mukherjee
It is a common practice for Hindus and Sikhs, two different religions, to actually, at the time of death to cremate the body with, with various Hindu rituals and Sikh rituals. And that's what we saw happen to the former Prime Minister, Dr. Manmohan Singh as well. There are prayers that are said, various customs that are followed before the actual cremation takes place. Then the body is placed on the pyre and covered with wood Again. There are various sacred chants that are, that are made. There's a priest who's present, the family members are present. There's holy water that is scattered around the pyre and then it is set on fire, essentially. I mean, if you go back to the scriptures, it means that, you know, you came from the ashes and that's what you produce too. It was a common cremation ground. But obviously for the former prime minister. The place where he was cremated was, you know, on an elevated platform. But there were other families who were also there with their loved ones who had passed away to cremate them as well. Here was a former prime minister whose fire was burning along with several other pyres. And you know, everyone's eventually on that pyre. That was a big takeaway for people who were, you know, who were there witnessing that moment.
- [18:50]
Nick Miles
Aron Ode Mukherjee still to come, the simple solution.
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Arunode Mukherjee
Each year will save thousands of tons of electronic waste, facilitate the reuse of old electronics.
- [19:04]
Nick Miles
A new law has come into force in the European Union requiring most electronic devices sold to have the same type of charging port.
- [19:20]
Nicola Coughlan
World of Secrets is where untold stories are exposed. And in this new series we investigate the dark side of the world wellness industry. Following the story of a woman who joined a yoga school only to uncover a world she never expected. I feel that I have no other choice. The only thing I can do is to speak about this. Where the hope of spiritual breakthroughs leaves people vulnerable to exploitation. You just get sucked in so gradually.
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Will Ross
And it's done so skillfully that you don't realize.
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Nicola Coughlan
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Nick Miles
With an active ingredient new to the cereals market, Tolvera Herbicide easily manages hard to control broadleaves and foxtails. Now if it could only manage the traffic. For more flexible weed control, visit Corteva US Flex la Ventura tienium nuevo nombre Nissan Rogue Rock Creek Con la Rogue Rock Creek estaraz listo para conquistad el camino Quebenga Rogue Rock Creek over the last few years, Mali has experienced two military coups, Islamist rebellions and a failed French military intervention. Now security officials there have confirmed that an influential religious leader has been kidnapped in the north of the country. I heard more about him from our Africa regional editor, Will Ross.
- [21:40]
Will Ross
This man, Amadou Hadi Tal, he's the leader of a Sufi order Also known as the Caliph of Tijania. Now, we understand he was at a kind of pilgrimage close to the Mauritanian border, and he was traveling in a convoy of three vehicles when armed men attacked the convoy and only took him, left everybody else alone. So clearly a targeted attack. Now, no one has said it carried out this attack, but this is an area where Islamist militants are extremely active.
- [22:13]
Nick Miles
And why are the Sufis in particular being targeted by jihadist groups if this indeed is the case?
- [22:19]
Will Ross
Well, basically, they have very different views of. Of Islam. The Islamist militant groups have their own very extremist view, and they consider that Sufis are un Islamic. And the fact that Sufis worship saints. And that's why over a decade now, back in 2012, when large areas of northern Mali were taken over by the Islamist militants, they literally went to smash up the Sufi tombs using pickaxes and vehicles and destroyed quite a number of them before the Islamist militants were pushed out of those areas.
- [22:57]
Nick Miles
I mentioned the fact that the French peacekeepers moved out a couple of years ago. How is the Malian authorities in the military able to protect people, particularly the Sufis, in such vast areas?
- [23:11]
Will Ross
Well, they've really struggled since the two coups. They've kind of turned their back on France. The whole international alliance against the Islamist militants has kind of collapsed. And Mali's embraced Russia both politically and militarily. And that hasn't managed to stop the spread of these jihadist attacks. And we're seeing a similar story in neighboring Burkina Faso and Niger. I mean, there have been relentless attacks against the militaries there and also against civilians. And also human rights groups point out that there have been more and more abuses, partly because of Russian soldiers being involved with the Malian military. But certainly things seem to be getting worse across the wider Sahel region and other countries beyond. These three are also worried about the militancies spreading and affecting their countries, too.
- [24:08]
Nick Miles
Will Ross. A spree of mass killings in China this year has sparked real soul searching about what's going on that. But people feel compelled to commit such horrific crimes. The faltering economy, which has led to many losing their jobs and homes, has been blamed, as has the Chinese state, tightening its grip on all aspects of people's lives while not providing a way for them to air their grievances or to get support or counseling. The Communist authorities have promised to address the problem, but as our China Correspondent, Stephen McDonnell reports, It's not clear they can.
- [24:46]
Stephen McDonnell
The scene in front of me is being repeated right across China today. And in fact, every Day parents wait outside the gates of a school to pick up their kids. They feel they need to protect their children and don't want to risk anything going wrong if they were to make their own way home on, say, public transport. But such fears have only heightened lately, with schools being targeted by those seeking to violently take out revenge on society for a range of grievances. This is all making for some pretty grim introspection as people here ask what's going wrong with Chinese society that's causing such bloody, desperate attention seeking.
- [25:29]
Nicola Coughlan
My kid is so young, so for safety reasons I try my best to drop them off at school and pick them up at the end of the day.
- [25:37]
Stephen McDonnell
Other parents tell us they're not so worried because the number of recent mass attacks in China has been statistically small. George Magnus, a research associate at Oxford University's China Centre, says that the relatively small number of mass killings doesn't reflect the overall build up of tensions, which seems undeniable.
- [25:59]
Will Ross
I think China's become trapped in a sort of a cycle of social repression and economic repression on the one hand, and a kind of a faltering economic development model on the other. So I think this, this cycle actually is quite corrosive of trust and of belief that there is somewhere I can go to get help.
- [26:22]
Stephen McDonnell
What are being referred to here as revenge on society. Attacks are not new in China, but this year there have been so many that they've been hard to keep track of. On the 11th of November, there was dismay as footage spread of a 62 year old man driving his car into those exercising outside a sports stadium in Zhuhai, killing at least 35 people who'd been jogging or dancing outdoors. Police said he'd been unhappy with his divorce settlement. Days later, another car was being driven into children outside their primary school in Chengde, Hunan. After the vehicle stopped, locals smashed in its windows, then bashed the driver and held the man down until police could get there. And on and on the list goes. Lynette Ong is a professor of political science at the University of Toronto.
- [27:15]
Nick Miles
China is moving into a new phase, such as a lot of random attacks and pockets of protest and social instability emerging.
- [27:25]
Stephen McDonnell
With tension increasing in Chinese society, the government has also been criticised for not providing enough counselling services for those in distress. People feel they can't turn to the courts because they're seen as inefficient and only loyal to the party. With state controlled media, it mostly won't air people's stories if they make high level officials look bad. For now, the stress points seem likely to keep opening even wider. The only question is just how much pressure this might bring to bear on social order.
- [27:58]
Nick Miles
Stephen McDonnell in Beijing. Next to the world of technology, discovering that you've left home without a mobile phone charger can be a source of great frustration, especially as there's no guarantee your colleagues or friends will have the particular one that your phone needs. But in Europe, it seems a new law is changing this.
- [28:17]
Alfie Habersham
Alfie Habersham reports as smartphones become faster and more powerful, a lot of people's cupboards become full of wires they no longer need. The iPhone has already been through three different types of chargers, and that's not to mention all the other phones on the market. They might need a USB A, a USB B, a USB 3, the mini USB or even the micro USB. But for Europeans, it might be about to get a bit less confusing. A new law says that from Saturday, all phones, tablets and earphones sold in the EU will have to work with just one type of charger the USB. And EU's rapporteur Alexa Jusaliba says it's not just about making life easier.
- [28:54]
Arunode Mukherjee
The simplest solutions are often the best. And the simple solution each year will save thousands of tons of electronic waste, facilitate the reuse of old electronics, better consumer convenience, reduce unnecessary costs and also help to save millions of euros as.
- [29:16]
Alfie Habersham
Living costs rise all over the continent. Europe says being able to stick with the same charger will make households a quarter of a billion euros richer. The new law even says that laptops will be expected to follow by 2026. But it has taken two years to get it passed, with Apple being the main barrier in the EU's way, complaining that it would block innovation before then giving in last year and is now no longer selling the iPhone 14 and SE in Europe because they use a different type of charger.
- [29:43]
Nick Miles
Alfie habersham more than 1,000 critically endangered snails, each the size of a pea, have been released onto a remote Portuguese island. It's the end of a long journey that began when a small number were discovered by conservationists who took them away to be bred in captivity in zoos in France and the uk. Our science correspondent Victoria Gill has more.
- [30:06]
Nicola Coughlan
This is a story with some very tiny main characters. The Desertus island land snail. They were rescued from the brink of extinction and brought to Chester Zoo, where they've been living and breeding inside this converted shipping container. These were snails that were at risk of extinction or thought to be actually extinct in the wild. That's Chester Zoo's invertebrate keeper Imogen. So we were lucky enough to have them brought to us. And this is where we've managed to breed up from very low numbers to what we have here today, which is almost like 1,400 snails ready for release. There are two snail species that the team are bringing back to their wild island home off the coast of Portugal. Discular snails and the even smaller geometra. They're prepared for their journey with a little scientific makeover. We have UV markers and literally just a metallic pen. Why do they need to be marked? Basically, so there are some individuals left in the wild and we just want to be able to distinguish the ones that we've bred and released so that we can track them and track their progress. The Desertus Islands, close to Madeira in Portugal, are their destination and their natural home. The largest of the islands where the last snails were found, has had its habitat decimated, eaten away by goats, rats and mice that were brought here by people. So the team has transported the snails to the protected neighbouring island of Buji. It's meant a long and precarious journey. After waiting for the ideal cooler evening conditions, it's finally time to set the snails free.
- [31:37]
Nick Miles
We're going to release them really close under the rocks, which will be the perfect place for the new life, where they have protection, humidity and a lot of food.
- [31:49]
Nicola Coughlan
This is a small but significant part of a mission to restore the natural habitats and wildlife on these mountainous Atlantic islands. If it goes well, more snails will be brought here next year, each bringing a small splash of colour back to their habitat.
- [32:02]
Nick Miles
Victoria Gill. The Norwegian chess grandmaster Magnus Carlsen has quit a world tournament in New York after the game's governing body said he could not carry on playing wearing jeans. He was given the opportunity to change into smarter trousers, but refused, using offensive language. Paul Moss reports he has always been considered a maverick in the chess world. Magnus Carlsen certainly shifted the image of chess grandmasters, often seen as introverted or geeky. He, by contrast, was famed for his alcohol capacity, earning the nickname Dr. Drunkenstein. Mr. Carlsen also tends to dress more stylishly than his opponents. And at the Rapid Chess tournament in New York, he refused a demand to wear smart trousers, warned he'd be kicked out unless he changed out of jeans immediately. Magnus Carlsen's response was rather direct.
- [32:58]
Stephen McDonnell
They can enforce their rules, that's fine by me.
- [33:01]
Andrei Vladov
And my response is, then I'm out, like you.
- [33:05]
Nick Miles
This is not Magnus Carlsen's first controversy. He once accused an opponent of having radio controlled objects inserted in a certain bodily orifice signaling which move to make that matter was eventually resolved. But Mr. Carlson's sartorial choices look set to remain a running sore in the world of chess. Paul Moss reporting. And that's all from us for now. But there will be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later. If you want a comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcastbc.co.uk you can also find us on X@global newspod. This edition was mixed by Pat Sissons. The producer was Liam Cheffrey. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Nick Miles. And until next time, goodbye.
- [34:01]
Nicola Coughlan
Hello, I'm Katya Adler, host of the Global Story podcast from the BBC. Each weekday we break down one big news story with fresh perspectives from journalists around the world. From artificial intelligence to divisive politics tearing our societies apart from the movements of money and markets to the human stories that touch our lives, we bring you in depth insights from across the BBC and beyond. Listen to the Global Story wherever you get your BBC podcasts.