Russia says no role for Europe in Ukraine peace talks

Summary

Global News Podcast Summary BBC World Service | Episode: "Russia says no role for Europe in Ukraine peace talks" | Release Date: February 17, 2025

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1. Introduction

Valerie Sanderson opens the episode by highlighting the day's top stories, including Russia's stance on Ukraine peace talks, developments in the Israeli-Gaza hostage situation, Pope Francis's health update, the evolving relationship between the US and Russia, and insights into Germany's impending elections amidst rising anti-immigration sentiments.

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2. Russia Excludes Europe from Ukraine Peace Talks

Russian Foreign Minister's Statement At the forefront of today's headlines, Russia's Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, declared that European leaders have no role in the ongoing negotiations between the US and Russia aimed at ending the war in Ukraine. Lavrov firmly stated, "There’s no point for Europeans to be at the negotiating table because they don’t have anything to offer" (01:39).

European Response and Macron’s Emergency Summit In response to Lavrov's exclusion of Europe, French President Emmanuel Macron convened an emergency summit in Paris. This gathering aimed to unify European nations' stance against Russia's decision to engage solely with the US and Saudi Arabia. Andrew Harding from BBC reported, "This is a show of European unity... insisting on the importance of Europe and Ukraine being part of any negotiating process" (04:45).

Insights from Tim Franks Tim Franks provided an in-depth analysis, explaining that Moscow views the US as both a rival and an equal, making direct talks with the US paramount for Russia. He noted, "Lavrov’s remarks clearly show that Moscow can only engage in meaningful negotiations on Ukraine with the US, the power Russia sees both its greatest rival and only true equal" (02:14). Franks also highlighted the internal divisions among Ukraine's allies, which Moscow is likely exploiting to its advantage.

European Unity and Future Prospects Andrew Harding further elaborated on Europe's strategic positioning, noting that while there may not be immediate breakthroughs, Europe is preparing to play a significant role if a ceasefire is achieved. He emphasized the necessity of American security guarantees for Europe to maintain resolve against potential Russian exploitation (04:45).

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3. Israeli-Gaza Hostage Situation and Ceasefire Negotiations

Current Phase and Challenges Sebastian Usher reports from Jerusalem on the Israeli Security Cabinet's deliberations about the second phase of the ceasefire with Gaza. This phase involves the release of the remaining Israeli hostages and the complete withdrawal of Israeli troops from Gaza. Usher mentioned, "There is some doubt about whether that will go ahead as originally envisaged in the three-stage plan" (06:41).

Perspectives from Bisha Al Kasani Former Jordanian Prime Minister Bisha Al Kasani shared insights on possible alternative plans for Gaza's administration post-conflict. He advocated for a "transitional non-partisan” administration to manage Gaza, emphasizing the need for an irreversible political commitment towards a two-state solution (08:29).

Security Guarantees and Future Stability Al Kasani stressed that without firm Israeli commitments to a long-term political vision, any temporary management of Gaza would be ineffective in preventing future hostilities. He stated, "If this does not lock in an Israeli commitment to a political horizon that’s irreversible... nobody will be willing to... commit troops or boots on the ground" (10:12).

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4. Pope Francis's Health Update

Complex Clinical Situation Bethany Bell reports from Rome that Pope Francis is undergoing treatment for a respiratory tract infection, which has evolved into a complex clinical situation. The Vatican confirmed, "He will remain in hospital for as long as necessary" (11:01). Despite his condition, the Pope remains in good spirits, though he has been unable to perform his weekly Angelus prayer due to his hospitalization.

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5. Voices from Gaza: BBC Documentary Insights

Life Amidst Conflict The episode features excerpts from the BBC documentary "How to Survive a War Zone," which follows the lives of four young Gazans. Abdallah, a 13-year-old, shares his fears and hopes, expressing, "My greatest hope is that the ceasefire continues and Gaza goes back to what it was before, or even better. But my biggest fear is that the war will return" (16:50).

Renad’s Resilience Renad, a 10-year-old food blogger, demonstrates resilience by maintaining her online cooking show despite the chaos around her. She stated, "We’re not afraid anymore. We’re used to it" (14:49), showcasing how children in Gaza find ways to cope with the constant pressure of war.

Impact of Bombings Abdallah recounts the tragic bombing of a camp near his home, resulting in significant casualties. He questioned, "Is it right to kill so many people?" (15:53), highlighting the devastating human cost of the conflict.

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6. China’s Technological Shift Under Xi Jinping

Choreographed Meeting with Tech Leaders Celia Hatton explains that President Xi Jinping held a rare, formal meeting with prominent Chinese tech figures, including Jack Ma, the founder of Alibaba. This meeting signifies a potential easing of the strict regulatory environment that previously subdued China's tech sector (17:58).

End of Tech Crackdown Hatton notes, "This is when we saw China's tech leaders all lined up in a very formal meeting... meant to illustrate the end of China's tech crackdown" (18:06). The Chinese government appears to be recognizing the critical role of private enterprises in driving economic innovation, especially in areas like AI and electric vehicles.

Future Prospects for Private Companies Xi Jinping emphasized the importance of allowing private companies to showcase their talents, suggesting a strategic pivot towards harnessing private sector innovation to bolster China's struggling economy. Hatton remarked, "Private companies like the one that created Deepseek... propelled the Chinese government to look beyond what it's been doing so far" (19:55).

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7. Germany’s Elections and Rising Anti-Immigration Sentiment

Shift in Public Attitudes Jess Parker reports from Oberhausen, West Germany, illustrating the shift in public opinion towards immigration over the past decade. Alia, a migrant mother, expressed frustration, "After more problems, the people said foreigners out. Yes, that was really sad for me because we are not actually bad because we don't want to live in this situation" (22:04).

AfD's Campaign and Public Demonstrations As Germany approaches national elections, the far-right AfD party intensifies its anti-immigration campaign. Demonstrations against AfD and rising tensions highlight societal divisions. An altercation at an AfD campaign stand revealed underlying racial tensions, with participants like Lisa Foght facing hostility, "If something doesn't suit you here in Germany, then you can go back" (24:35).

Community Voices Local residents, including long-time German Georg, emphasize the need for tougher border controls while balancing security concerns. Georg stated, "It's hard. There has to be security. Not like it is right now. It has to change" (23:53).

Impact of Recent Attacks Recent fatal attacks by asylum seekers have intensified the migration debate in Germany, further fueling the AfD's narrative and complicating the country's approach to immigration policies.

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8. BAFTA Awards and the Film "Conclave"

"Conclave" Triumphs at BAFTAs Sebastian Usher reports on the success of "Conclave," a Vatican thriller that secured four awards at the British Academy Film and Television Awards (BAFTAs), including Best Film and Outstanding British Film. Director Edward Berger expressed immense pride, "We try to make a movie that's not in a bubble that reflects humanity and our weaknesses and strengths" (26:16).

Comparison with Previous Works "Conclave" follows Berger's acclaimed "All Quiet on the Western Front," further establishing his reputation in the film industry. The documentary’s portrayal of the Vatican and its intricate narratives resonated with audiences and critics alike.

Cultural Reflections The film's success reflects a broader cultural engagement with themes of power, faith, and human resilience. Adrien Brody's portrayal in "The Brutalist" won him Best Actor, underscoring the festival's appreciation for deep, character-driven storytelling (27:14).

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9. Conclusion

Valerie Sanderson wraps up the episode by reiterating the key stories and encouraging listeners to engage with future editions of the Global News Podcast. She provides contact information for feedback and acknowledges the contributions of the production team.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• “There’s no point for Europeans to be at the negotiating table because they don’t have anything to offer” — Sergei Lavrov (01:39)
• “We are not afraid anymore. We’re used to it” — Renad (14:49)
• “If this does not lock in an Israeli commitment to a political horizon that’s irreversible... nobody will be willing to...” — Bisha Al Kasani (10:12)
• “Private companies like the one that created Deepseek... propelled the Chinese government to look beyond what it's been doing so far” — Celia Hatton (19:55)
• “If something doesn't suit you here in Germany, then you can go back” — AfD Activist (24:35)

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Note: This summary encapsulates the main discussions, insights, and conclusions presented in the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for listeners and non-listeners alike.

Transcript

[Valerie Sanderson]

This is the global news podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Valerie sanderson and at 1400 hours GMT on Monday 17th February, these are our main stories. Russia's Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov speaks about the idea of European leaders being invited to talks between the US and Russia on ending the war in Ukraine.

[Sebastian Usher]

I don't know what they should do at the negotiating table.

[Lisa Foght]

If they're going to wheedle out some sly ideas about freezing the conflict, then why invite them there?

[Valerie Sanderson]

The Israeli cabinet is due to discuss the hostage situation. The Vatican says Pope Francis is being treated for a complex clinical situation in Rome. Also in this podcast, we follow the stories of young people in Gaza and hear about their hopes and fears for the future.

[Abdallah]

My greatest hope is that the ceasefire continues and Gaza goes back to what it was before, or even better. But my biggest fear is that the war will return.

[Valerie Sanderson]

And with days to go until Germany's elections, far right AfD members are campaigning against immigration. We start with the apparent warming of the relationship between the United States and Russia. The direct talks between the two countries on ending the war in Ukraine could be just the first step. With Moscow now speaking about aiming for a whole scale restoration of ties, the Russian Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov says European leaders should not be invited to talks if they want to continue the war in Ukraine.

[Sebastian Usher]

I don't know what they should do at the negotiating table if they're going.

[Lisa Foght]

To wheedle out some sly ideas about freezing the conflict, while they themselves, in keeping with their customs and their character and habits, have in mind the continuation of the war, then why invite them there?

[Valerie Sanderson]

Against this backdrop, the French President, Emmanuel Macron has convened an emergency summit for European leaders in Paris to coordinate a response to the decision to open talks with Russia without Kyiv or others at the table. I spoke to Lisa Foght from BBC Russian, who's in Paris.

[Tim Franks]

Lavrov just made it clear that Russia is mostly interested in talking to the US and Saudi Arabia. Those talks are an absolute priority for Moscow. And I think it's interesting that Russian President Vladimir Putin, he has yet to comment on those recent developments, his phone call with President Trump or the mixed messages from American officials visiting Europe. But it's clear that in the Kremlin's eyes, Moscow can only engage in meaningful negotiations on Ukraine with the us the power Russia sees both its greatest rival, but at the same time its only true equal. And I think Foreign Minister Lavrov's remarks clearly shows that. Having said that, I think the division among Ukraine allies plays very well into Moscow's hands. And you can see it from his speech too. He said that there's no point for Europeans to be at the negotiating table because he doesn't really think that they have anything to offer. And it's interesting that the conversation in Moscow right now is centered on the concessions Ukraine might have to make and the growing tensions between Washington D.C. and European capitals rather than Russia's war effort in Ukraine. And I think in that sense, Keir Starmer's remarks about the possibility of sending peace peacekeeping mission in Ukraine might be interested. It will certainly draw Moscow's attention because it's a change of narrative. But we'll of course have to see what's going to be the latest on that so far. Lavrov, just as always, expressed skepticism about such mission.

[Valerie Sanderson]

And what do you think Moscow's view of European countries is? I mean, is there a belief they can deal with some and not others, so sowing disunity among the group?

[Tim Franks]

There's a very popular phrase in Moscow which is a collective West. So I think that to a certain extent in Moscow, people view Europe as a, you know, like as a single entity which is completely controlled by the United States. And this is why some state media call it humiliation caused by American officials visit last year played so well into Moscow's hand. I think there are certain leaders, like Hungarian Viktor Orban, like other people who could play their part in it. But right now I think Moscow just doesn't see Europe as its equal partner.

[Valerie Sanderson]

Lisa Foght well, European powers, including Britain, France and Germany insist they want to be a part of any future negotiations over Ukraine. The British Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, who'll be in Paris, has already confirmed that the UK is prepared to put soldiers on the ground in Ukraine. Here's our correspondent, Andrew Harding.

[Andrew Harding]

We have to temper our expectations. There aren't going to be big announcements, no significant diplomatic breakthroughs, but this is a show of European unity. So the leaders of France, of Germany, of the UK of Poland, Italy, Spain, Denmark, all meeting here, along with NATO and EU officials. Of course they're going to be pushing back against the extraordinary aggression, rhetorical aggression from the US in recent days and be expressing their concern about what we're hearing now about plans for a rapid, a very quick rapprochement potentially between the US and Russia. Also insisting on the importance of Europe and Ukraine being part of any negotiating process. But as well as that, the Europeans are starting to talk detail in terms of what if the Americans and the Russians and the Ukrainians do agree to a peace deal. What role do for European troops? Britain now saying it could commit troops, the Swedish also saying that, the Germans saying it's too early at the moment to talk about that. But clearly if, and it's still a very big if, there is some sort of ceasefire, then Europe's role is going to be very important. Europe also, though, wanting to underline the importance of American security guarantees. Europe, yes, can play its role, but without those American guarantees under the NATO charter. There is a concern that Russia might simply exploit this moment in the years ahead to test European resolve and perhaps to push the continent back towards war.

[Valerie Sanderson]

Andrew Harding in Paris. The next phase of Israel's ceasefire with Gaza is due to be discussed by the Security Cabinet in Jerusalem later. It's meant to include the freeing of the remaining Israeli hostages as well as a withdrawal from Gaza. Our Middle east regional editor, Sebastian Usher is in Jerusalem.

[Sebastian Usher]

Well, we're in the last two weeks of the first phase. There are still 14 Israeli hostages due to be freed from Gaza in this phase. And then there's the second phase. And negotiations were meant to have begun on that indirectly between Israel and Hamas through the mediators, Qatar, Egypt and the US More than two weeks ago now, but that hasn't happened. So there is concern that the second phase in which all the remaining hostages are due to be released and Israel troops are due to withdraw completely from Gaza, there's some doubt about whether that will go ahead as was originally envisaged in three stage plan. That could have a knock on effect on the third phase, which looks at the future of Gaza as a whole when the hostilities are ended. There is, as you were saying, going to be a Security Cabinet meeting in Israel later today and we've been hearing that that will discuss the second phase. We've also been hearing Mr. Netanyahu, the prime minister, wants to hear from the ministers in that cabinet, the other members of the Security Cabinet, about what they feel about the second phase. And depending on what he hears, he will then give instructions to a negotiating team that's been sent to Cairo still to discuss the first phase at the moment, but may give them instructions on how they're to negotiate this second phase.

[Valerie Sanderson]

So given the apparent total opposition of Arab states to the U.S. president Donald Trump's plans to clear out Gaza, its population, can those Arab states offer a compelling alternative plan? Bisha Al Kasane was Jordan's prime minister between 2020 and September 2024. And he told Tim Franks what he thinks is the way forward.

[Bisha Al Kasani]

The Arabs are collectively subscribed to a longer term vision that does entail a management approach the day after. And that management approach could be one that sees a non partisan entity that's agreed upon managing affairs. But that has to be in the context of a longer term vision that entails a clear and irreversible political horizon that leads to closure on the front of the Palestinian Israeli conflict, and that is based on the two state solution.

[Sebastian Usher]

If you're talking about a technocratic government, then for Gaza or some sort of administration for Gaza.

[Bisha Al Kasani]

A transitional non partisan.

[Sebastian Usher]

Okay, well, so non partisan. So that means obviously by definition it would mean nobody who's affiliated with Hamas who have been running the Gaza Strip. And it also suggests no one from Fatah, which dominates the Palestinian Authority. Is that correct?

[Bisha Al Kasani]

In the context of particularly the Palestinian Authority, this is the legitimate Palestinian entity that is the product of a discourse that has lasted for the past 30 years. It has been systematically eroded as a partner by successive Israeli governments. But inevitably, the Palestinian Authority, being the legitimate representative of the Palestinians, will have to play that fundamental role eventually in that longer term plan, and it will inevitably have a certain say.

[Sebastian Usher]

Okay, so you've sketched out the possibility of some sort of, as you put it, non partisan transitional administration. I guess Israel may well ask the question, even if it were to buy into your vision, what security guarantees can you give us?

[Bisha Al Kasani]

Tim, if this does not lock in an Israeli commitment to a political horizon that's irreversible in the direction of a clear cut political commitment, nobody will be willing to partake in committing troops or boots on the ground or any aspect if it is confined to the management era of that longer term vision. And the lack of the political horizon is fundamentally what has led to several episodes of the outbreak of hostilities and tensions in Gaza repeatedly.

[Valerie Sanderson]

Bisha Al Kasani speaking to Tim Franks. The Vatican says doctors have had to change treatment for Pope Francis respiratory tract infection to tackle what's called a complex clinical situation. It said he'd remain in hospital for as long as necessary. As Bethany Bell reports from Rome, Pope.

[Bethany Bell]

Francis, who's been in hospital since Friday for this respiratory tract infection, is now showing signs of what they call a complex clinical situation and they say he'll have to remain in hospital for some time. We're also told by the Vatican spokesman Matteo Bruni, that the Pope is in good spirits, but he has been ill for a little while now. He's had these, what appear to be symptoms like bronchitis for a few days. He was admitted into hospital on Friday. We were told over the weekend, his situation was stable, but he was unable to perform his weekly prayer for worshippers who come to Rome on Sundays, the Angelus prayer. You know, he is 88 years old. He's had lung problems in the past. He had to have part of one of his lungs removed when he had pleurisy as a young man, and he has been not well for the past few days. We do know now that he will be staying in hospital for a bit longer than planned.

[Valerie Sanderson]

Bethany Bell in Rome. Still to come in the global news.

[Lisa Foght]

Podcast, we try to make a movie that's not in a bubble, that sort of reflects humanity and our weaknesses and strengths and regrets and sins and our past lives.

[Valerie Sanderson]

We hear from the director of Conclave, a film which picked up four awards at this year's baftas. A new BBC documentary has spent the last nine months following the lives of four young people in Gaza as they try to survive the Israel Hamas war and hope for a lasting ceasefire. The filmmakers remotely directed two cameramen on the ground to tell the children's stories. We meet Renad, a 10 year old food blogger who dreams of being a chef, and the film's narrator, Abdallah.

[Abdallah]

My name is Abdallah. I'm 13 years old. I'm stuck here in Gaza. Today I'm revisiting Khan Yunus camp. This area used to be colorful. Now it's grey, just gray. Among the rubble, I find what's left of my grandfather's house. Everything's changed since the war started. I was in the best school in Gaza, the British school in the north. All my lessons were in English. Now I'm living in a tent. On my way back, I find a crowd of people fleeing the eastern areas of Khan Ulus. When the Israeli army call an evacuation order. We have to leave fast or it can be deadly.

[Lisa Foght]

They have killed our children, killed our women. While Sinwar is hiding underground, Hamas is shooting back.

[Abdallah]

You have to find something to distract you from the constant pressure of this war.

[Lisa Foght]

During the war, there's no school, no place for us to play. So I upload videos and talk to my followers.

[Abdallah]

Renat's 10. She started an online cooking show with her sister. They're lucky enough to still live in their own home and film her videos on the roof. While they film, there's an interruption as bombs fall nearby.

[Lisa Foght]

We're not afraid anymore.

[Abdallah]

We're used to it.

[Lisa Foght]

Even in the middle of the night, I'm not scared.

[Abdallah]

My family moved south to be in the safe zone. But last night, close to my place The Israeli army hit the camp with huge bombs. 19 people were killed. I've come to see the damage. This camp was filled with tents. They got buried underground. Oh, my God.

[Lisa Foght]

How many missiles did they fire? Four. No, it was six. They said there was a secret room for Hamas. We live here. There are no Hamas leaders in this area. Even for one or two. Is it right to kill so many people?

[Abdallah]

Every day there are more evacuation orders. We mainly get these by phone, texts and social media.

[Lisa Foght]

Urgent message. You are required to evacuate the designated humanitarian zone. The Israel Defense Forces will be conducting full scale operations against terrorist organizations.

[Abdallah]

Renat's family are preparing in case they need to leave fast. In the end, Renat was able to stay in her house. And now she has reached a million followers. But bots are still robbing the safe zone.

[Lisa Foght]

Did you have an idea? We were just sitting here when a bombing suddenly went off. The blast was so loud. And there's gunfire too. We were all so frightened. Right now.

[Abdallah]

The war seems like it's been going on forever. Then there's an announcement. Brunet's gone to watch at a cafe with her brother.

[Lisa Foght]

Now I have hope.

[Abdallah]

The ceasefire is starting. People are going to see what's left of their homes. My house was completely destroyed, so my family have found an apartment. It's damaged, but it's better than the tents. And I just turned 14. I got old. I'm getting old, actually. My mustache is growing. My greatest hope is that the ceasefire continues and Gaza goes back to what it was before, or even better. But my biggest fear is that the war will return.

[Valerie Sanderson]

Voices from the new BBC documentary How to Survive a War Zone. China's President Xi has taken part in a rare choreographed meeting with some of the biggest names in China's technology sector, including the Alibaba founder, Jack Ma, who's been in and out of favor with the Communist government. The entrepreneur behind the AI Chatbot Deepseek was also there, alongside the head of China's electric carmaker, byd. Our Asia Pacific regional editor, Celia Hatton, told me more.

[Celia Hatton]

I mean, it really is jaw dropping if you know the story behind some of the people who attended this meeting. You mentioned Jack Ma. He was at one time China's richest man. He was getting almost as much attention internationally as Xi Jinping, China's leader. But then he disappeared from public view for a few months. He's now clearly back in the Communist Party's favor. You know, Val, I think this was almost sort of the opposite. It was China's answer to what we saw at the inauguration of Donald Trump almost a month ago when we saw us tech billionaires all lined up to kind of give homage to Donald Trump coming into office. This is when we saw China's tech leaders all lined up today, literally lined up in a very formal meeting, wearing almost identical clothing, watching as Xi Jinping, flanked by his Communist Party inner circle, all kind of walking into the room and having a very formal, very, very serious meeting. And it really was meant to illustrate the end of China's tech crackdown. I mentioned the disappearance of Jack Ma in 2020. That sort of signaled the start of a huge regulatory crackdown on technology companies by the Chinese government. They were fined collectively billions of dollars. They lost trillions in market value and they subject to a huge influx of laws and regulations imposed on them by the Communist Party, who was really worried at the time that they were getting out of control, out of hand, and the Communist Party needed to reassert its influence. Now we're seeing the party and Xi Jinping really admitting that this kind of private technology, private development, is what the Chinese economy really needs.

[Valerie Sanderson]

So what is the future going forward? I mean, what is it all about?

[Celia Hatton]

Well, we heard Xi Jinping say today that it's the right time for private enterprises and entrepreneurs to showcase their talents. So I think what we're going to see going forward is a submission from the party that they need to let these private companies go back to doing what they do best. You mentioned that the creator of Deep Seek was at this meeting. I think Deepseek, the low cost AI Chatbot, is a really good example of what private Chinese companies can do if they're sort of left to their own devices. And it's no surprise that Deepseek is a small company that was really off the radar of the Chinese authorities and it was able to to do what it wanted to do using local talent. And I think really that's propelled the Chinese government to look beyond what it's been doing so far and to allow private companies to go further because the Chinese economy really isn't doing very well. And I think the Communist Party is recognizing that their solutions so far, their attempts to beef up state owned huge companies really isn't working and that they need to look to where the innovation is coming. And that's from private companies like the one that created Deepseek.

[Valerie Sanderson]

Celia Hatton there's less than a week to go until Germany's national elections and tensions between the parties are at an all time high amid controversy over alleged US interference in favor of the far right AfD party, certainly the party with the strongest stance on tightening migration policies. Germany took in close to 900,000 migrants at the peak of Europe's migration crisis 10 years ago. And at that time, back in 2015, the BBC visited Oberhausen in West Germany to find out how the area was coping. A decade on we have returned and discovered that attitudes have shifted. As our Berlin correspondent Jess Parker reports.

[Jess Parker]

I'm at the home of alia and her 10 year old son Rami. They live in a one bed apartment in West Germany.

[Tim Franks]

Thanks God that we are in our home.

[Jess Parker]

Alia's learned German and is grateful to her adopted country, but believes some migrants have integrated more than others.

[Tim Franks]

For 10 years it was very welcoming, but after more problems the people said foreigners out. Yes, that was really sad for me because we are not actually bad because we don't want to live in this situation. Also.

[Jess Parker]

We just got into Eberhausen, it's a Saturday lunchtime and we stumbled into a demonstration pretty much on arrival. It's a demonstration against the far right party Alternativa for Deutschland.

[Lisa Foght]

I want that my country wants people to get here if they are in trouble.

[Jess Parker]

Peers at the demo with friends and family. That's what you want to keep. A generous asylum policy. Do you think that is where Germany is going to end up in the next few years?

[Abdallah]

I don't think so.

[Jess Parker]

There is so much tension now around immigration. Do you therefore think some mistakes have been made in the way successive governments have handled this issue?

[Abdallah]

Maybe yes.

[Lisa Foght]

Maybe they didn't thought about the things enough. They said, yeah, we will do it, we will manage, we'll make it.

[Jess Parker]

Angela Merkel.

[Bethany Bell]

Some breaking news that's coming into us from Germany. A vehicle has been driven into a group of people in a string of.

[Jess Parker]

Fatal attacks involving suspects who've been asylum seekers has intensified Germany's fraught migration debate. 66 year old Georg has lived in the Oberhausen most of his life. I meet him strolling near the local park. Does he now want tougher border controls?

[Lisa Foght]

It's hard. There has to be security. Not like it is right now. It has to change.

[Jess Parker]

A heated argument breaks out at a campaign stand for the AfD party between two men of color and a local AfD activist, Jorg Langer. We heard you tell him to go back to his own country. I mean he grew up here. That is clear.

[Lisa Foght]

Racism. No, no, it's kind of racism. No, that's not racism.

[Jess Parker]

How is it not?

[Lisa Foght]

I mean he personally attacked me. He said, you're a Nazi. And then of course, you have to say, if something doesn't suit you here in Germany, then you can go back.

[Jess Parker]

I catch up with the two men involved in the argument, Kwame and Pratep.

[Lisa Foght]

He told us to go back.

[Tim Franks]

Go back. It's like three streets away from here.

[Valerie Sanderson]

Where should we go back?

[Lisa Foght]

We grew up over here. We've done everything.

[Jess Parker]

We have kids here in Germany. Do you see the attitudes have changed.

[Valerie Sanderson]

Yeah.

[Tim Franks]

The last four or five years.

[Sebastian Usher]

Yeah.

[Jess Parker]

Back at home with Alia and Rami, a boy who's the same age as Europe's migration crisis, he dreams of being a doctor, footballer or policeman. As he decides his future, so does Germany.

[Valerie Sanderson]

Jessica Parker. The Oscars are in two weeks time, but a good indicator of what might happen there has just taken place at the British Academy Film and Television Awards, or baftas. It's the most important night in British film and tv, and one of the big winners was the Vatican thriller Conclave, which got four awards, including best film. Our entertainment correspondent Colin Patterson was at the Royal Festival hall here in London and spoke to winners as soon as they came off stage.

[Sebastian Usher]

This was a night when BAFTA picked a picture about picking the Pope.

[Abdallah]

The Pope is dead.

[Sebastian Usher]

Conclave did the double, winning both best film and outstanding British film. Backstage, Conclave's German director, Edward Berger was in a very buoyant mood.

[Lisa Foght]

I'm living here. I love it here.

[Sebastian Usher]

Two years ago, he directed the best film at the BAFTAs, All Quiet on the Western Front. Now he's delighted that Conclave's making a big noise.

[Lisa Foght]

We try to make a movie that's not in a bubble that sort of reflects humanity and our weaknesses and strengths and regrets and sins and our past lives.

[Sebastian Usher]

It was also a good night for Anora, an American indie film which rather unexpectedly starred with a lengthy scene in a strip club set to the sound of Take that's Greatest Day. They sang the song during the ceremony.

[Lisa Foght]

I was so happy they were able to reunite and perform.

[Sebastian Usher]

Have you met any of them tonight?

[Abdallah]

No, but I met Gary before.

[Sebastian Usher]

Its star, Mikey Madison, won best actress, dedicating her award to sex workers because she plays one in the film.

[Lisa Foght]

This incredible community of people who deserve respect and don't often get it. I think.

[Sebastian Usher]

The Brutalist took home four awards with Adrien Brody winning best actor for his performance as a Hungarian architect Holocaust survivor.

[Bisha Al Kasani]

There was a war on and yet.

[Lisa Foght]

Many of the sights of my project.

[Sebastian Usher]

Had survived, while Brady Courbet was named best director for the 3 hour and 35 minute epic. It's famous Got the intermission in it. What do you do your 15 minutes when you're watching the film?

[Tim Franks]

Usually have a panic attack.

[Lisa Foght]

Hopefully people use it to smoke, make.

[Tim Franks]

Love, I don't know. Whatever you can do in 15 minutes.

[Sebastian Usher]

Finally, one word of caution for conclave. In the last decade, only two winners of best film at BAFTA have gone on to repeat at the Oscars. All will be revealed in two weeks time.

[Valerie Sanderson]

Indeed it will. That was Colin Patterson. And that's it from us for now. But there'll be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast of the topics covered in it, send us an email. The address is globalpodcastbc.co.uk you can also find us on XBCWorldService. Use the hashtag Newspod. This edition was mixed by Chris Lovelock. The producer was Isabella Jewell. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Valerie Sanderson. Until next time.

[Lisa Foght]

Bye.