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- [00:00]
Alex Ritson
This is the global news podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Alex Ritson and at 13 hours GMT on Tuesday 10 June, these are our main stories. Many Palestinians have been killed in two separate shootings in Gaza. Several children are among the victims of a shooting at a school in the Austrian city of Graz. $50 million worth of drugs seized in Mexico. Also in this podcast.
- [00:32]
James Landale
Honestly speaking, our customers are in trouble. Many other things like food prices had gone up. Then the rice which had been inexpensive.
- [00:40]
Alex Ritson
Went up so sharply a rice crisis in Japan. At least 15 Palestinians are believed to have been killed in another shooting in Gaza. The BBC has been told that Israeli drones opened fire as people tried to steal flour from an aid convoy while it was in a risk zone. The Israeli military has said it's investigating. Three people were also killed near a U S. Israeli backed Gaza Humanitarian foundation aid distribution center. The BBC isn't allowed by the Israeli authorities to report directly from Gaza. So Hugo Bochega told me the latest from Jerusalem.
- [01:21]
Hugo Bochega
Alex, I think this shows how chaotic the situation is for Palestinians who are in desperate need of aid in Gaza. So it seems that we're talking about two different incidents here. The worst incident was this one that you just mentioned, when Israeli forces opened fire, according to witnesses, as people trying to steal flour from an aid convoy. The Israeli military said it was investigating this incident. And a separate shooting happened near an aid distribution hub of the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. This is the new mechanism for aid distribution backed by Israel and the United States. It has been criticized by virtually everyone who has some experience with aid distribution. And since this, this new System was introduced two weeks ago, more than 160 people have been killed trying to get aid, according to Gaza's authorities. So we've seen that there has been this easing of the Israeli blockade on the entry of humanitarian aid, but only a very limited amount of supplies is entering Gaza. So people remain in desperate need. This is resulting in chaos, in looting. And some people say that this is not by accident, that this could be part of the Israeli strategy to perhaps put more pressure on Hamas in Gaza.
- [02:36]
Alex Ritson
Yeah, because Hugo, when you and I spoke a couple of hours ago, the reports then were that people in Gaza were being attacked by Palestinian gunmen. What was that? Did you stand that up?
- [02:49]
Hugo Bochega
Exactly. So we had, you know, some reports suggesting that there was some gunmen in the crowd. As you know, people were trying to steal flour from this aid convoy. We know that the Israeli authorities are now supporting militiamen and armed groups in Gaza, groups that are opposed to Hamas. So I think critics of this new mechanism and critics of the Israeli government say that this could be part of the strategy here to put more pressure on Hamas. But obviously, you know, this is just another complication, if you like, for these Palestinians who are, you know, trying to get aid at these, you know, distribution centers. And this morning, the head of the UN Agency for Palestinian Refugees posted a message on social media saying, another day of aid distribution, another day of death traps.
- [03:39]
Alex Ritson
Hugo, 24 hours ago, we were talking about the group of activists, including the Swedish campaigner Greta Thunberg, who were detained aboard a Gaza bound aid boat. What happened to them?
- [03:52]
Hugo Bochega
Yeah, so they were trying to breach this naval blockade that has been imposed by Israel on Gaza for almost 20 years since 2007. When Hamas took control of Gaza. They were saying that they were trying to, you know, deliver a symbolic amount of aid to raise awareness of the humanitarian crisis Gaza because of the restrictions on aid that have been imposed by Israel. So officials in Israel have begun deporting the 12 activists who were on this ship. The flight carrying Greta Thunberg landed about 30 minutes ago in Paris. But at least five activists have refused to sign their deportation orders and remain detained in Israel.
- [04:34]
Alex Ritson
Hugo Beshega in Jerusalem, the British government has sanctioned two far right Israeli government ministers. The Security Minister, Itamar Ben gvir, and the Finance Minister, Betsel Smotrich, will both face a travel ban and see their assets frozen. Israel's foreign affairs minister called the move outrageous. With more, here's our diplomatic correspondent James Landale.
- [04:57]
James Landale
Well, this is the first time that the British government has actually targeted members of the Israeli government. If you think about it, the British have imposed sanctions on, you know, various Israelis, particularly settlers in the west bank and elsewhere. And since last month when David Lammy, the Foreign Secretary, stood up in the House of Commons and was very, very critical of these two ministers, both of them far right nationalists, both of whom are key parts of the coalition that forms Israel's government at the moment. Mr. Lamy describing them as monstrous and extremists for what they'd said specifically about two things, really. One is about the restriction of aid from Gaza and also their calls for the relocation of Palestinians outside of Gaza. Israeli ministers have confirmed it. For example, the Foreign Minister, Gideon Sar, has said this was an outrageous decision that elect representatives are subject to these measures. He's discussed it with Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister. They're going to hold a special government meeting next week to decide what the response is to what he calls this unacceptable decision. Both of the Ministers who've been sanctioned have also commented and criticized it in biblical terms. I mean, the restrictions are technical, that you can't travel to the uk, you can't have any kind of financial links with the uk. It's never automatically clear how much financial engagement these two ministers have with the uk. But what it means is family relations, others, they can't travel to the UK if there's any kind of financial link, any kind of linkage. So it can constrain, but the impact is political, it's symbolic.
- [06:23]
Hugo Bochega
Yeah.
- [06:23]
Alex Ritson
What does it tell us then about the UK government's changing position perhaps on the war in Gaza?
- [06:29]
James Landale
Look, this is a continuation of a ramping up of frustration and increased pressure on the Israelis. If you think about it, in recent months you've had a joint statement from Keir Starmer, President Macron, the Canadians saying, look, we now think there is a serious risk that Israel's actions in Gaza are breaking international law. A few weeks ago you had the UK suspending trade talks with Israel. This is the latest stage. The question is, where does that stop?
- [06:56]
Alex Ritson
And also the political pressure, how intense would you say it is on the UK government at the moment in terms of public opinion, on what they're watching and seeing every day?
- [07:04]
James Landale
I think the sense is that it's rising. I think certainly in terms of as reflected, the popular will, as reflected through MPs. If you hear those debates in Parliament now, whenever this comes out, it's quite sort of regular, it is cross party. The scale of the concern about what's happening. The opposition to the Israeli government's policy seems to be growing. And there are people who in Parliament who have been long standing supporters of the State of Israel, who are finding increasingly hard to justify the actions that have been taken by Israeli forces in Gaza.
- [07:34]
Alex Ritson
James Landale speaking to Lucy Hawkins. When the war was started after the October 7 massacre, Israel was united in its response and aims defeat Hamas and get back all the hostages. But 20 months later, those two objectives haven't been achieved and some Israelis are feeling war fatigue, while others remain adamant that the army should continue fighting in Gaza. Our Jerusalem correspondent, Lucy Williamson has been gauging opinion.
- [08:06]
Lucy Williamson
Support for ending the war is growing in Israel, but the big anti war demos are focused on freeing Israeli hostages, not easing the suffering of Gazans. Yitzhak, a reservist officer on his second tour of duty, he says it's time to end the war.
- [08:26]
Yoshua Bengio
A year ago, stating these opinions openly was very unpopular killer in the military especially today, people are tired of this war.
- [08:35]
Alex Ritson
We Hate it.
- [08:36]
Hugo Bochega
We don't enjoy doing this and we're done.
- [08:39]
Stephanie Hegarty
And if, like, if you bring in.
- [08:41]
Hugo Bochega
The hostages becomes a much more acceptable.
- [08:44]
Alex Ritson
Opinion to say, we're definitely willing to.
- [08:46]
Hugo Bochega
Stop the war if you can promise.
- [08:47]
Yoshua Bengio
Me all the hostages return, that is.
- [08:49]
Hugo Bochega
Something I would fully accept.
- [08:51]
Yoshua Bengio
I totally endorse that opinion.
- [08:55]
Lucy Williamson
Even with anti. With the anti war sentiment growing, lobbying to end the suffering of Gazans is a lonely place to be in Israel. Alma Bak is one of the organizers of a new kind of demonstration here. Silent vigils of a few hundred people holding pictures of Gazan children killed or injured in the war.
- [09:13]
Stephanie Hegarty
People will react very violently, call us names, wish us rape, you know, wish us death, things like that. There's kind of like a wall of denial that very, very strong. I think this was sort of the first instance where humanizing those numbers, you know, that they're hearing about giving them a face, giving them a story. I think for a lot of people, that's the first time that they're actually coming face to face with that.
- [09:39]
Lucy Williamson
Mayan Eliyahu IFA says her views have lost her friendships.
- [09:44]
Alex Ritson
When I hear the bombs of the.
- [09:47]
Yoshua Bengio
Israeli military in Gaza, it's like tearing me apart.
- [09:50]
Stephanie Hegarty
Even my friends that hear these bums.
- [09:53]
Alex Ritson
And say, okay, they deserve it. I just can't look them in the eyes, you understand?
- [09:59]
Lucy Williamson
Attitudes to the war are now sharply divided along political lines. Even among right wing voters, support for the war is starting to slip, but surveys suggest more than half of them still back it, compared to just 6% of those on the left and hard right. Nationalists in Benjamin Netanyahu's government are fiercely in favor spying an opportunity to resettle and even annex Gaza. Thousands flooded roads near the Israeli parliament last week in support of their prime minister. The crowds surging past reinforced buses ferrying in settlers from the occupied West Bank. There's a lot of religious families here, a lot of Israeli flags and a lot of guns as well. You don't find people here saying they're exhausted or disillusioned by 20 months of war. Quite the contrary. They're telling us that it's made them more certain of their views. I met Israel standing in a blue baseball cap near the entrance.
- [10:56]
Alex Ritson
You can't end the war.
- [10:57]
Yoshua Bengio
The Hamas and the whole infrastructure is totally taken apart. If you leave it the way it is now, the situation will come back.
- [11:05]
Alex Ritson
Another two, three, four years.
- [11:06]
Hugo Bochega
They'll rebuild everything.
- [11:08]
Alex Ritson
It's not just the decision of just the hostages.
- [11:11]
Lucy Williamson
Avigdor Bargil said the war should stop only when Hamas is on its knees and that Gazans should move to other.
- [11:19]
Alex Ritson
Countries, moving forward to go to Indonesia, to go to Europe, to go to French Macron. Very loved them very much. Also in Britain, also the BBC, you like them there very much.
- [11:32]
Lucy Williamson
But Gaza is where they live. It's their home.
- [11:34]
Hugo Bochega
Gaza, it's not their home.
- [11:37]
Alex Ritson
They took it. They come take our land. This is our land. This is the land that G D gave us by the Torah.
- [11:45]
Lucy Williamson
The war bestowed a brief moment of unity on Israel, a country that was previously deeply divided over its values and identity. Now those divisions are surfacing again, not driven by horror at Gaza's suffering, but by horror that Jews could leave Jews in captivity and by a deeply divisive Prime Minister and by the realization that despite everything that's happened, Israel is still at war with itself.
- [12:12]
Alex Ritson
Lucy Williamson with that report. At least nine people have been killed in a shooting at a secondary school in the Austrian city of Graz. Several people, including students and teachers, have also been seriously wounded. A police spokesman is quoted as saying the suspect appears to have killed himself. He's believed to have acted alone. Crisis centers have been set up for those affected and their relatives. The Austrian Chancellor, Christian Stocker, has described the shooting as a national tragedy.
- [12:49]
Lucy Williamson
Dear ladies and gentlemen, representatives of the media, today is a dark day in the history of our country.
- [13:01]
Shaima Khalil
The school shooting here in Graz in the school board.
- [13:07]
Lucy Williamson
Is a national tragedy which affects us deeply.
- [13:12]
Alex Ritson
Our Europe regional editor, Danny Eberhardt is following developments.
- [13:16]
Will Grant
We know the shooting started about 10 o' clock in the morning, local time. Alex. The school affected is a place in the northwest of Graz and the police responded seemingly quickly in very large numbers. It was about 90 minutes before they came out and said that actually there is no more danger. The school's been evacuated, but by that time the attacker had left a trail of devastation with, we know nine victims. We don't know how many exactly were students. There were some reports that seven of those were students and at least one adult. And also we believe that the shooter killed himself. The issue of who that person was has not been confirmed by the police. There are local media reports that suggest that he's a 22 year old former student. The police have said they believe he was acting alone, so. But they have not speculated about a motive. And we know that there are many people who are in those crisis centers being treated by psychologists and healthcare professionals because this is a major tragedy.
- [14:30]
Gene McKenzie
Yeah.
- [14:30]
Alex Ritson
This is not what you expect to happen in Austria at all, is it?
- [14:33]
Will Grant
No. Austria is generally considered a very safe country. It does have a relatively high gun ownership by comparison with some European countries, but it's still way, way down on a country, for example, like the United States, where school shootings are quite common. So school shootings in Austria are vanishingly rare. I struggle to think of any. There are sometimes violent attacks. So for example, in 2020 there was a terror in Vienna. There's no suggestion at this stage that this was terrorist at all.
- [15:06]
Alex Ritson
Danny Eberhardt and three days of mourning have been declared in Austria. Mexico is facing mounting pressure from President Trump to curb drug trafficking, particularly of methamphetamine and the synthetic opioid fentanyl. Well, on Monday, the Mexican authorities said they'd seized more than 40 tons of drugs worth $50 million during raids on illegal labs. Will grant reports from Mexic the seizure.
- [15:35]
Gene McKenzie
Of such a huge quantity of methamphetamine and precursor chemicals, with the value running into the tens of millions of dollars, will be considered another welcome victory for President Claudia Sheinbaum and her security strategy. In total, more than 42 tons of the synthetic drug were found by Marines in an operation supported by public security forces in the western state of Michoacan. Five properties were raided which were apparently being used as clandestine laboratories for production of the drug, while photographs released by the authorities appear to show drums of precursor chemicals discovered in a warehouse. With this latest seizure, one of the largest of its kind, it is becoming increasingly clear that President Scheinbaum and her security team have moved on from her predecessor's strategy on the drug cartels. Ex President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador was often criticised by his opponents for running a strategy characterized as hugs, not bullets, which they say failed to tackle the country's drug cartels effectively or to bring down enough cartel leaders. In her first year in office, President Sheinbaum has placed more emphasis on clamping down on the traffic of the synthetic opioid fentanyl and other drugs over the border into the United States. In part, she has come under great pressure from the Trump administration to act on the issue. However, her administration has also registered noticeable increases in fentanyl seizures, as well as captured several high profile cartel figures in recent months.
- [17:03]
Alex Ritson
Will grant still to come in this podcast, K pop fans go wild after two of the genre's biggest stars are discharged following military service, one in five people globally say they won't have as many children as they'd like to. That's according to a survey by the United Nations Population Fund, the agency that aims to improve reproductive and maternal health. It says financial limitations are holding Millions of people back from having bigger families. It's the UN's strongest line yet on the declining birth rate in many parts of the world. The BBC's global population correspondent, Stephanie Hegarty has seen the report.
- [17:59]
Stephanie Hegarty
So the crisis that the UN is labeling here is the fact that people aren't having the families that they want. They say most people want to have two or more children, but they can't reach those goals. Many will have more than they want, but the majority they're saying are having fewer than they want. And that's mainly they found because of financial limitations. So they've done a survey, it's a pilot survey in anticipation of more work they're going to do later in the year in many more countries. But this one is 14,000 people in 14 countries. They're a mix of low and high income and low and high fertility. And what they're finding is financial limitations are a big barrier to people having the families that they want. So that's the cost of education, healthcare, transport. I spoke to a woman in India who said even the school bus was pushing their family over the edge and that was the reason why she wasn't having a second child. So financial limitations are a huge problem here. There are lots of other barriers to people having children, but the main message is people want to have more children in many parts of the world, but they just find that they can't.
- [18:54]
Lucy Williamson
And so what, is there any kind of advice from the UN to governments to how they could rectify this?
- [18:58]
Stephanie Hegarty
So they are advising against are knee jerk panicky responses to low fertility. And they're saying that any policies that governments do come up with should be rooted in human rights, in reproductive choice, in those decisions that families are making. But they are advising the governments to tackle things like housing, employment opportunity, all the general things that governments are trying to improve anyway. But they're saying that things that don't work often are the baby bonuses or these upfront payments to families to try and convince them to have more kids. So it's quite complicated and the solutions aren't straightforward. But I think the main message of this report is that the focus really has to be on children.
- [19:35]
Lucy Williamson
And when you mentioned one of the.
- [19:36]
Stephanie Hegarty
Main factors was going to be able.
- [19:38]
Lucy Williamson
To afford it, what other things were part of that picture?
- [19:41]
Stephanie Hegarty
So interestingly, when it came to things like infertility, the difficulty conceiving was only 12% of people who didn't have the children that they want who were surveyed who said that infertility was a problem. But on the Other hand, not being able to find a suitable partner was slightly higher. So it's really complex here. And often it wasn't just infertility, but there were other issues around health care. People not feeling their general health was not good enough to have the number of children they want. And then various other issues, like people felt that their partner wasn't doing enough of the work at home. That was a barrier to them deciding to have another child. So really complex and quite wide ranging.
- [20:17]
Alex Ritson
Stephanie Hegarty talking to Lauren Taylor. There's an emergency in Japan, a rice emergency. Prices have doubled since last year and homegrown supplies are running low. Rice isn't just a Japanese food staple, but a source of pride. The crisis has caused widespread ang. As Shaima Khalil reports.
- [20:40]
Shaima Khalil
It's a busy afternoon in Akidai, a small local supermarket chain. Here in Tokyo, many customers are milling about carrying the day's groceries. It's been a tough couple of years for Japanese households. They've struggled with inflation, high prices, stagnant wages and a sluggish economy. And yet not many could see the rice crisis coming. Hiromichi Akiba is, is the owner of the Akidai supermarket chain. He tells me this really hit Japanese families where it hurt.
- [21:10]
James Landale
Honestly speaking, our customers are in trouble. Many other things like food prices had gone up. Then the rice which had been inexpensive, went up so sharply.
- [21:21]
Shaima Khalil
Images of long lines of people queuing up to get their hands on a bag of rice shock the public. Here. Momoko Abbeys here shops with her four months old baby.
- [21:29]
Alex Ritson
As you know, it's a staple in our lives and it's something that we haven't really, I mean, maybe sort of take it for granted.
- [21:36]
Shaima Khalil
And it was quite shocking that the rice could rise within such a short period of time. The government has started releasing rice from its emergency natural disaster reserve. But it's been very slow getting to consumers. They're also considering importing rice. Climate is a part of this dim picture. The rice harvest in 2023 was compromised by extreme heat which affected the supply. Overtourism also played a part. Last year, Japan received a record of nearly 40 million visitors, putting increased pressure on rice demands. Also in 2024, Japanese families were jolted when a warning was issued of a possible megaquake which triggered hoarding and panic buyers. The current Agriculture minister, Shinjiro Koizumi has vowed to bring the prices down and to modify the supply chain. More rice has gone into the system, but not nearly enough. The problem is more structural here. For decades, Japan has tightly regulated Rice production to avoid supply overflow and to control prices. The policy is called gentan. The idea is that Japanese farmers produce just enough to supply the domestic market. But this policy backfired with one expert describing it as disastrous. Mr. Akiba says it leaves the country vulnerable.
- [22:55]
James Landale
This gentan policy, the government has been telling farmers don't grow rice, don't grow rice, but farmers really should Also considering the aging population of farmers, I'd like the government to plan for the years ahead.
- [23:12]
Shaima Khalil
Rice is also very political here. Most farmers sell their rice through the ja, the Japan Agriculture Co Ops, a powerful interest group with connections to the ruling Liberal Democratic Party. They're known to influence votes in rural Japan. So they're much appeased by many politicians. The JAs sell to the wholesalers who sell to the supermarket chains. Essentially they control the supply chain. These kind of politics can really affect.
- [23:37]
Alex Ritson
What to make are eating.
- [23:38]
Shaima Khalil
It affects like many people's business as well. Like it's a really big issue that is really like affecting the ruling party now. Japan imports over half of its food, but the Japanese are very particular about the rice. The oval shaped sticky japonica grain used in sushi is part of Japan's culture, tradition and national pride. For many here, this is about much more than putting food on the table.
- [24:04]
Alex Ritson
Shaima Khalil Artificial intelligence will dramatically reshape our societies and workforces in the coming years, opening up significant opportunities and some potential challenges. But it's giving rise to fears too about AI's potential to put human's very existence at risk. Yoshua Bengio is known as one of the three godfathers of AI who jointly won the ACM Turing Award which is the computer science equivalent of the Nobel Prize. He's launched a non profit AI organization, Law Zero, working on AI safeguards to spot rogue systems attempting to deceive humans. My colleague James Koppnell spoke to Yoshua Bengio.
- [24:51]
Yoshua Bengio
AI is becoming smarter and smarter after each version that the companies are putting out. And it's being deployed in ways that will touch people as the new services that can be useful, but also tasks that are going to be automated more and more, which could eventually affect more and more people. AI is also a place where there's huge investments happening. Huge quantities of energy are being funneled into training these systems, which will eventually also have an effect on the price of energy. As the demand is growing exponentially, the capabilities of AI are on the rise. So thinking about what AI is doing now is not really sufficient to take good decisions. You have to think that it's probably going to continue getting more and more capable, and you have to anticipate and plan for that.
- [25:45]
Hugo Bochega
As you think about these big questions.
- [25:47]
Alex Ritson
You'Ve noticed that some AI models already seem to be developing some dangerous behaviors and capabilities. Can you explain a bit more?
- [25:55]
Yoshua Bengio
In the last six months, there's been a series of papers and reports from companies and organizations that evaluate those AIs, showing that the most advanced AIs show more and more signs of deception, cheating, lying, trying to blackmail people in order to achieve their goals. And in many cases, they have goals that we would not like, like self preservation, trying to avoid being shut down. For example, when the AI reads that it's going to be replaced by a new version, it will try to avoid that, try to hack the computer in order to avoid that, try to, as I said, blackmail the leading engineer in charge. And of course, these are controlled experiments where the engineers are trying to catch the AI doing something bad. But still these behaviors are happening and they're on the rise. And the companies don't really know how to fix those problems. It's like a child who's doing bad things and lying, and we still don't know how to induce good behavior. But it's eventually going to be adolescent and eventually going to be an adult. The projections vary, you know, depending on opinions, but some quantitative studies suggest we might get to human level, at least on some domains, within five years.
- [27:14]
Alex Ritson
Artificial intelligence researcher Yoshua Bengio K Pop is a global music phenomenon, and its biggest stars are arguably BTs. But the South Korean boy band had to stop performing so that all seven members could carry out 18 months of mandatory military service. Two of them have just finished, and as Gene McKenzie reports, adoring crowds were ready to greet them. Hundreds of Fans gathered outside two army bases this morning as the singers RM&V were released. The men came out in their military uniforms, saluting the crowds. One played a saxophone. They thanked fans for waiting for them and promised to be back soon with a really cool performance. BTS announced their hiatus in 2022 so that all seven members could serve in the military. This is mandatory for all men in South Korea, so the country can be ready to fight the North. The final band member is due to be discharged later this month, meaning their much anticipated comeback is now within sight. Gene McKenzie in Seoul. That's all from us for now, but there'll be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcastbc.co.uk. you can also find us on XBCWorldService. Use the hashtag globalnewspod. This edition was mixed by James Piper and the producers were Daniel Mann and Peter Hyatt. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Alex Ritson. Until next time. Goodbye.