Thailand launches air strikes on Cambodia

Summary

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Global News Podcast (BBC World Service)

Episode: Thailand launches air strikes on Cambodia
Date: December 8, 2025
Host: Pete Ross

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Episode Overview

This episode delivers urgent updates on escalating conflict between Thailand and Cambodia, a pivotal moment marking the most severe border clashes in years—including airstrikes and mass civilian evacuations. The podcast also covers the anniversary of Assad’s fall in Syria, a thwarted coup attempt in Benin, the controversy over attacks on white farmers in South Africa, Formula One’s new champion Lando Norris, and tributes to British photographer Martin Parr.

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Key Segments and Insights

1. Crisis Escalates: Thailand Launches Air Strikes on Cambodia

Timestamps: 01:58 – 04:20

• Violent Clashes Resume: Tensions flare up again on the Thailand-Cambodia border following a five-day war earlier in July. Despite a ceasefire, new fighting erupts.
• Deadly Incident and Escalation: One Thai soldier killed and four wounded, prompting Thai military airstrikes on Cambodian positions.
• Mass Evacuations: Around 400,000 Thai civilians near the border have been evacuated due to ongoing hostilities.
• Uncertainty and Accusations: Both nations accuse each other of breaking ceasefire terms and initiating violence.
• Severity of Situation: Described as the most serious fighting since the ceasefire, with officials fearing a broader humanitarian crisis on both sides.

Notable Quote

“Both sides are still accusing each other of firing opening shot... Almost 400,000 civilians across four border district are now being evacuated.”
—Punisha Immosha, BBC Thai (02:32)

Notable Quote

“The Thai military said that they're already deploying aircraft to strike Cambodian military position in Syrov's area... just to suppress the continued attacks.”
—Punisha Immosha, BBC Thai (03:35)

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2. Syria: One Year Since Assad’s Fall

Timestamps: 04:20 – 11:43

• Background: Assad was toppled by Islamist-led rebels; Ahmed Al Shara now leads Syria with U.S. support.
• State of Damascus and Deraha: Celebrations in Damascus contrast with devastation and slow recovery in rebel-held suburbs and towns like Deraha.
• Demining Efforts: The HALO Trust and locals clear dangerous unexploded munitions—remnants that hinder rebuilding and pose daily risks.
• Personal Stories of Trauma: Syrians like Suleiman Kanar recount severe injuries and suffering from lingering war ordnance.
• Golan Heights Aftermath: Israeli forces killed villagers in Beijin, raising local fury and highlighting ongoing instability.
• Civilian Despair: Residents, like Umm Mohammed, express hopelessness and fear for their children’s safety.

Notable Quotes

“Life is very, very difficult. There is no mercy and comfort in it. My kids were burned twice by gunpowder.”
—Thomas Nadi translating Suleiman Kanar (08:34)

“We want to live in our homes and we want clinic and medical stuff because we don't have one. Our children are living in hell here. There is no safety for them.”
—Umm Mohammed, Beijin villager (10:47)

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3. Attempted Coup in Benin Thwarted

Timestamps: 11:43 – 15:31

• Coup Attempt: Soldiers storm state TV, claim to dissolve government amid mounting political tensions pre-election.
• Swift Regional Intervention: Troops and air support from Nigeria and other West African nations quickly suppress coup. ECOWAS deploys peacekeepers.
• Ongoing Risks: President Talon assures the nation of restored order, but mentions fatalities and hostages remain.
• Regional Significance: The rapid response contrasts with previous coups in the region, signaling a hard line against further instability.

Notable Quotes

“The response to this particular coup was very swift and effective, unlike the previous coups... It's just a way of sending a very strong message that... they are taking coups seriously because West Africa is already grappling with a very bloody jihadist insurgency.”
—Thomas Nadi (14:46)

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4. Divisive Debate: Attacks on White Farmers in South Africa

Timestamps: 18:42 – 22:41

• Global Spotlight: U.S. President Trump calls the violence “genocide” and fast-tracks U.S. refugee visas for white Afrikaaners, dividing opinion.
• Fear and Emigration: White farmers like Martinez seek asylum in the U.S. following traumatic attacks, citing security fears and lack of future in South Africa.
• Complex Victimhood: Violence often impacts both white owners and black farm workers/security guards; claims of race-targeted genocide are disputed.
• Generational Rift: Younger Afrikaners show greater willingness to adapt and stay, while older generations express heightened fear.

Notable Quotes

“It's a genocide that's taking place that you people don't want to write about, but it's a terrible thing that's taking place and farmers are being killed.”
—Anonymous Farmer (20:25)

“I think the people who are calling it a white genocide have no real understanding of what a genocide is... If they thought the Black guy had 20,000 rand sitting in a safe, they'd attack him just as quickly as they'd attack the white guy...”
—Morgan Barrett, white farm owner (21:23)

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5. Formula One: Lando Norris Crowned World Champion

Timestamps: 22:52 – 26:02

• Triumph in Abu Dhabi: Lando Norris becomes F1 World Champion, marking a new era after Hamilton and Verstappen.
• Mentor’s Perspective: Trevor Carlin, who helped develop Norris’ career, praises his exceptional work ethic and mental resilience.
• Personality and Pressure: Norris described as introverted but adaptable, managing immense public scrutiny with quiet confidence.

Notable Quotes

“Lando's been driving some sort of vehicle since he was probably four or five years old, and he's still doing it every day... it's that work ethic and the natural talent... hard to beat.”
—Trevor Carlin (23:48)

“He's obviously not my son, but he's as close as possible as you can get and very, very proud and hopefully it's the first of many championships for him.”
—Trevor Carlin (25:56)

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6. Remembering Martin Parr, Iconic British Photographer

Timestamps: 26:02 – 30:26

• Legacy: Martin Parr dies at 73. Famous for humorous, vivid depictions of British life, focusing on the everyday.
• Distinctive Style: Parr’s color photography captured the quirks and realities of working-class Britain, using bright hues rather than the somber tones of black-and-white.
• Tributes: Arts correspondent David Sillitoe praises Parr’s ability to highlight the “real” Britain—cheerful, uncomfortable, and instantly recognizable.

Notable Quotes

“All I'm doing is seeing the things that I think are interesting. Sometimes they're funny too and people are funny, so how can the work not be funny at some point in their production? But I don't think of myself as being a humorous photographer. It's just naturally, you know, life is strange and life is funny.”
—Martin Parr (26:24)

“It is utter, utter working class Britishness... But my goodness, when you see it, you recognize it. You go, oh, yeah, I've been there.”
—David Sillitoe (29:26)

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Memorable Moments & Quotes (with timestamps)

• Thailand evacuates 400,000 over airstrikes: “Both sides are still accusing each other of Firing opening shot... Almost 400,000 civilians across four border district are now being evacuated.” —Punisha Immosha (02:32)
• Syrian father on hardship: “Life is very, very difficult. There is no mercy and comfort in it. My kids were burned twice by gunpowder.” —Thomas Nadi translating Suleiman Kanar (08:34)
• Despair in Syrian conflict: “There is no safety for them. We go to sleep and wake up afraid.” —Umm Mohammed (10:47)
• On Benin coup response: “The response...was very swift and effective...they are taking coups seriously because West Africa is already grappling with a very bloody jihadist insurgency.” —Thomas Nadi (14:46)
• On South Africa violence: “It's a genocide that's taking place... farmers are being killed.” —Anonymous farmer (20:25)
• Mentor on Lando Norris: “It's that work ethic and the natural talent that goes with it. And when you get those two things together, hard to beat.” —Trevor Carlin (23:48)
• Martin Parr on photography: “All I'm doing is seeing the things that I think are interesting... life is strange and life is funny.” —Martin Parr (26:24)

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Final Notes

This episode of the Global News Podcast paints a vivid, multi-layered picture of a turbulent world, from flashpoints in Asia and Africa to cultural shifts in global sports and the arts. The reporting combines on-the-ground perspectives, emotional human stories, and expert reflection, with the signature breadth and rigor of BBC World Service journalism.

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Transcript

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[Pete Ross]

This is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service.

I'm Pete Ross and in the early hours of Monday 8th December, these are our main stories. Tensions escalate once again between Thailand and Cambodia after violent clashes on the border. Syria celebrates the one year anniversary of the fall of the Assad regime and an attempted coup in Benin is thwarted with the help of Nigeria and other West African countries.

Also in this podcast he's obviously not.

[Trevor Carlin]

My son, but he's as close as possible as you can get and very, very proud and hopefully it's the first of many championships for him.

[Pete Ross]

We get the inside track on Lando Norris, the new Formula One champ.

We begin in Southeast Asia where a fragile peace between Thailand and Cambodia appears to be under further strain. The two countries have fought a five day war in July, the latest flare up in a century old territorial dispute. And while a ceasefire brokered with the help of Donald Trump appeared to ease tensions, each side had accused the other of breaking it. Now the Thai military says one of its soldiers has been killed in a fresh wave of border clashes and it's launched airstrikes at Cambodian forces. In response, Punisha Immosha gave me this update from Bangkok.

[Punisha Immosha]

The whole news rounds of fighting between Thailand and Cambodia began on Sunday and it has been expanded today. About 20 minutes ago I've talked to one of the civilians who still live in the border area from the Thai side and they said that they still hear the opening shot at each other. Both sides are still accusing each other of Firing opening shot. As we already mentioned that one Thai soldier has been dead and four are wounded at the moment from the Thai side. Almost 400,000 civilians across four border district are now being evacuated.

[Pete Ross]

Have we had any response from Cambodia on all this?

[Punisha Immosha]

The Cambodian Defense Ministry also accused Thailand of launching assault at two locations after what is called day of provocative action and said the Cambodian troops had not retaliated.

[Pete Ross]

Tensions have been bubbling away for quite some time and this is of course something that stretches back many decades, as much as a century. So what do we expect next? Is this a serious escalation?

[Punisha Immosha]

Actually after the cede fight agreement, this has been one of the most serious fightings between the two countries because people are now have to evacuate its officials. And I've already mentioned we are talking about 400,000 alone in Taizai. One could imagine that it would be almost severe as well for the Cambodian side. And along the way after the agreement on the ceasefire, we have seen incidents of land miles but not to this levels of fighting. And both sides are still fighting each other. The Thai side, the Thai military said that they're already deploying aircraft to strike Cambodian military position in Syrov's area. But they mentioned that it's according to the rule of engagement just to suppress the continued attacks.

[Pete Ross]

Penisha Omosha from BBC Thai Syria is marking the first year anniversary of the fall of the Assad regime. Bashar Al Assad had ruled the country since the year 2000. Taking over from his father who'd been in power since 1971. He was over thrown in a lightning offensive by Islamist led rebels and fled to Russia. Syria's new president, Ahmed Al Shara, a former rebel with links to Al Qaeda, has the support of the White House. But after years of civil war, unifying and rebuilding a fractured and shattered Syria is particularly challenging. As our international editor Jeremy Bowen reports.

[Jeremy Bowen]

Their fireworks. Though it sounds a bit like the war that used to shake the city when rebels who held the suburbs were trying to break into the center of Damascus. They're celebrating because it's exactly a year since the fall of Bashar Al Assad, the man who broke Syria to try to save the regime he inherited from his father. I've been to Douma, one of those suburbs. When the regime helped by the Russians finally forced the surrender of the rebels in the suburbs in 2018, it looked as if Assad was winning. Akbar Ashara, who overthrew him 12 months ago, had other ideas. Just walking around this area, it's still immensely badly damaged. You know, it's Been years since there were airstrikes here, but very little has been done to fix it up. You can see signs, people have moved into some flats. There are little brick walls that have been built, walls made of bricks, breeze blocks to block up shell holes. Signs of progress. There's so much they have to do. We drove south from Damascus to Deraha, the town on the border with Jordan where the uprising against the Assad regime started in 2011.

A few enterprising families have clearly been rebuilding their homes, but the vast majority of houses here are still absolutely destroyed, just concrete skeletons. One of Syria's biggest problems, the government says it, the UN says it, is the fact the economy is in such a bad state, collapsed. It's hard to get economic activity going again in places like this if there are unexploded bombs, unexploded munitions around the, in the ruins, in the concrete. So that's another reason, apart from just purely safety, why it's important to try and clean these places up.

[Pete Ross]

My name is Piers Brecker.

[Jeremy Bowen]

I'm the location manager for the HALO Trust here. Just across the road from us, there.

[Pete Ross]

Are a combination of sub munitions, anti personnel mines and anti tank mines.

[Jeremy Bowen]

Next to that we found a 122.

[Pete Ross]

Millimeter grad rockets warhead.

[Jeremy Bowen]

Pretty much, you name it, it's here.

[Pete Ross]

You name it, it's here.

[Jeremy Bowen]

To get rid of it, they place a small explosive charge and from a safe distance, blow it up.

A local man has seen the demining team here and he said there are some very suspicious objects at his property. So we're going to check it out.

So the shepherd here, Suleiman Kanar, he's got his three boys and they are all bearing the marks of war. They've all, at different times been hurt. He was shot. He's showing me a huge scar on his leg where he was shot through the right calf. And the boys themselves, they're all bearing marks of where they've been injured by.

Explosions. And also one of them, Ali, is coughing badly. His lungs have been damaged, I think by smoke he's inhaled from munitions that they were burning off. The boy's father was relieved that the lethal litter left behind by the wall was finally being cleared.

[Thomas Nadi]

Life is very, very difficult. There is no mercy and comfort in it. My kids were burned twice by gunpowder. This one's face was burned. Look. This one's legs were burned.

[Jeremy Bowen]

Every stop in Syria illustrates another challenge to the new government. We moved on to Beijing, a village in the footholds of the Israeli occupied Golan Heights where the problem is Israel. It's in the area Israel is demanding is demilitarized, where the IDF seized more Syrian land after Assad fell.

We were in Beijing three days after the IDF killed 13 residents of the village in a raid Israel said was an arrest operation. The Damascus government calls it a war crime. Six IDF soldiers were wounded when local men fought back, forcing a hasty retreat.

So this from the attack, right? He's pointing up at a damaged building full of bullet holes. We're being given a tour of Beijing by Hamid Kemal. He describes himself as a 38 year old shepherd. Like a lot of the guys around here, he wears.

Sort of olive khaki type clothing. This village, Beijin, is right under the eyes of the Israeli observation posts in the Golan Heights. These people have lived very close to the IDF for many, many years.

[Trevor Carlin]

Actually.

[Jeremy Bowen]

A car pulled up. Khalil Abu Dhaha was in the passenger seat, his arm in plaster, coming home from the hospital where he'd been treated since the IDF raid. I was in my house with my children. We were trying to find a safe place. They shot at my two daughters. One was hit and the other died instantly. When I picked her up, I was shot in the hand. At their home, Huda, age 9, was lying under a blanket recovering from a bullet wound. Her sister Hiba, 17, was shot dead. Their mother, Umm Mohammed, is in despair.

[Claire Mowisa]

We want to live in our homes and we want clinic and medical stuff because we don't have one. Our children are living in hell here. There is no safety for them. We go to sleep and wake up afraid.

[Jeremy Bowen]

In the village, neighbors and VIPs were arriving to offer their sympathy and express anger at Israel. It's three days after the Israeli attack, a significant day in the mourning process. Seems to me these are people, these villagers, who have just been buffeted and trapped by circumstances. The uprising against Assad, the war, unable to control their own lives, and a year on from the fall of Assad. That hasn't changed. It's simply that the forces gripping their lives have changed. The reality of how they live hasn't.

[Pete Ross]

Our international editor, Jeremy Bowen. Military groups have seized power in several West African countries in recent years. And on Sunday, there was an attempted coup in Benin. Troops and planes from Nigeria and other West African nations were deployed to stop soldiers from a group called the Military Committee for Refoundation taking over the country. The soldiers announced on state television that parliament had been dissolved. But hours later, President Patrice Talon confirmed in an address to the nation that he is still in power. Our correspondent Thomas Nadi told me how events unfolded.

[Thomas Nadi]

A group of soldiers stormed the state TV and then announced that they had ousted President Patrice Talon and dissolved all state institutions and suspended the constitution. But we do know that Benin itself has been facing some form of political tensions ahead of elections in April next year. Some key opposition figures have been excluded and then some imprisoned in the country. So that has created some form of a tension. But the coup leader, Lieutenant Kenneth Pascal, agree. They did indicate that the reason why they decided to take this bold move was because of mismanagement by the government and also the worsening security situation in the north of the country. We know that Al Qaeda linked GENIE militants have inflicted severe casualties within the military. The soldiers have not really been happy about it, and it's also one of the reasons why they decided to attempt the coup.

[Pete Ross]

Now, Thomas, as we understand it, order has been restored, but that wasn't without the help of some of Benin's neighbors, including Nigeria.

[Thomas Nadi]

Yes, order has now been restored. President Alon on Sunday evening addressed the nation and said that everything is now completely under control and then vowed to punish perpetrators of this particular coup attempt. He also did indicate that there were still some hostages being held by fleeing soldiers, and then some fatalities were recorded. But he didn't indicate the exact number of people who died in the coup attempt. But it is instructive to note that late Sunday afternoon there were heavy explosions in the capital, which suggested airstrikes. Later, a Nigerian presidency statement confirmed that his ground troops and air force were in action in Benin. They had helped the soldiers in Benin to flash out the coup plotters from the state TV and then also a military base where they had regrouped. We also know that regional bloc Ecowas has said it was in deploying troops to Benin with immediate effect to secure the country.

[Pete Ross]

Quite a serious response then from some of Benin's neighbors. Is this the sort of usual practice? There have been a series of queues in West Africa recently.

[Thomas Nadi]

The response to this particular coup was very swift and effective, unlike the previous coups that took place in countries like Niger, where ECOWAS had threatened to intervene in Burkina Faso, Mali, guinea, and more recently in Guinea Bissau. And so it's just a way of sending a very strong message that this time around, the regional bloc ecowas and also neighboring countries were taking the issue of coups seriously because West Africa is already grappling with a very bloody jihadist insurgency. They are trying to do everything to ensure that they protect democracy in the region as a credible form of government.

[Pete Ross]

Thomas Nadi.

Later in the podcast.

[Jeremy Bowen]

All I'm doing is seeing the things that I think are interesting. Sometimes they're are funny too. And people are funny, so how can the work not be funny? At some point in their production, we.

[Pete Ross]

Look back at the life of British photographer Martin Parr, who's died at the age of 73.

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[Pete Ross]

The claim that white farmers in South Africa are being deliberately targeted by violent criminals remains one of the country's most sensitive issues. This year, US President Donald Trump intensified the debate by calling the situation a genocide and prioritizing refugee applications from white Africaners. White Over 26,000 murders were recorded in South Africa last year, with the majority concentrated in urban areas. South Africa rejects the claim of genocide, but the White House's intervention has cast dividing lines throughout the Africana community. As Africa eyes. Claire Mowisa reports. Just a note, you may hear some distressing content here.

[Claire Mowisa]

Set amidst the rolling grasslands of the high felt plateau, Martinez's farm feels isolated.

A few other lonely farmsteads dot the horizon around us.

He earns a decent living, but he no longer believes his family has a future here.

[Jeremy Bowen]

I always had that thing in my.

[Thomas Nadi]

Mind that when they gonna come and.

[Advertiser 1]

Kill us or torture us?

[Claire Mowisa]

He's applied for refugee status in America, concerned that his wife and children could one day fall victim to a farm murder. It's a fear grounded in personal tragedy.

[Thomas Nadi]

They came into my grandpa's bedroom and then he hammered that shotgun on my grandfather's face.

[Jeremy Bowen]

My grandfather stand up again and then.

[Thomas Nadi]

He shot him two times in his head.

[Claire Mowisa]

Brutal, often high profile murders of white farmers have fueled the belief that the killing of Afrikaners amounts to genocide.

[Jeremy Bowen]

It's a genocide that's taking place that you people don't want to write about, but it's a terrible thing that's taking place and farmers are being killed.

[Pete Ross]

They happen to be white, but whether.

[Trevor Carlin]

They'Re white or black makes no difference to me.

[Claire Mowisa]

Black people were forced off their land by the government under apartheid. Decades after its end, white South Africans still own the majority of privately owned farmland. But Donald Trump's claim of genocide has proven divisive, even amongst those he's offering to protect.

[Advertiser 1]

See there?

[Pete Ross]

The fence is complete there.

[Advertiser 1]

It's been cut, but that's another clear sign that there's somebody in here right now.

[Claire Mowisa]

As we speak, we join Morgan Barrett on a nighttime patrol of his farm.

Like many white farm owners, Morgan employs black South African security guards, and black workers are frequently Amongst the victims of.

[Advertiser 1]

Farm attacks, I think the people who.

[Jeremy Bowen]

Are calling it a white genocide have.

[Advertiser 1]

No real understanding of what a genocide is. If they thought that the Black guy had 20,000 rand sitting in a safe, they'd attack him just as quickly as they'd attack the white guy with 20,000 in the safe.

[Claire Mowisa]

Morgan tells us he has no intention of leaving. But even if the claims of genocide are ill founded, the chance at a new life in America remains tempting. Nice to meet you. Colleen and her children relocated after their farm was burgled. She's been unemployed for 10 years now. Donald Trump's offer could see her family divided. She's determined to go, but her daughter Vilma wishes to stay.

[Pete Ross]

Every morning when they go to school, I worry. I worry, is something happening? My biggest challenge is to find a decent job where I don't have to fight every day for my income.

[Punisha Immosha]

Older generation, white people still feel that race thing, like they're scared of black people. Black people constantly need to show, listen, I'm safe.

[Advertiser 2]

I have high hopes for the younger generation.

[Pete Ross]

We'll make it work.

[Claire Mowisa]

Colleen submitted her application and has been advised to complete more paperwork.

Back in the highveld, Martinez and his family have had their application approved. They now prepare to leave their home as recognized refugees.

[Pete Ross]

Claire Mouisa, step aside. Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen. Formula One has a brand new world champion. Britain's Lando Norris clinched the title on Sunday after coming third in the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, the final race of the season. Trevor Carlin from junior motor racing team Carlin Motorsport spotted Lando's talent, talent helping to nurture him at the beginning of his career. He told my colleague Rebecca Kesby more about the potential he saw in the new world champion.

[Trevor Carlin]

Early on, he was known as the next British wonderkid, as they're called. Basically you look at their results and what they've done in the past and who they've raced for and what they've done and you just see the ones that are on the crest of a wave and if they drive for good teams, they tend to stay on the crest of the wave and keep going and going and going. So basically you look for winners. That's what Lando was.

[Advertiser 2]

What makes a winner, though, I mean, what's in the personality and the ability that allowed him to be like that so early on?

[Trevor Carlin]

They've got to have a real great feel for their environment and what's going on then how to adapt it mentally and then have the work ethic to keep going and keep Going and keep going. I mean, bear in mind, Lando's been driving some sort of vehicle since he was probably four or five years old, and he's still doing it every day, and he's working hard. So it's that work ethic and the natural talent that goes with it. And when you get those two things together, hard to beat.

[Advertiser 2]

You talk about the mentality, the need to be mentally strong there, because Formula One drivers come under a lot of pressure, don't they? Obviously, there's the big team behind them, but on the day, they're the ones out there alone driving.

[Trevor Carlin]

There may be 1400 people behind Lando at the McLaren factory and in the pits and everything, but the one person that can make the difference on the day is that driver. And if something goes wrong or the driver makes a mistake, you've got millions and millions of people watching him do it on live tv. And then the commentators are questioning everything they do and stuff like this. So the pressure is immense. But the great thing about top professional racing drivers is they can compartmentalise. They can put things in little boxes and they don't think about anything else apart from driving the car when they're driving. So it's a great mental skill, and I think it's underestimated what these kids do.

[Advertiser 2]

And, as you say, every move is scrutinized and trawled over in the press. How would you describe Lando's personality in terms of his ability to deal with all of that?

[Trevor Carlin]

It's very difficult for him because he's a very shy, quiet young man, actually. But, you know, he's grown a confidence to deal with the circumstances, and he copes very, very well with it. But he's very introverted. When he'd finished working with the guys, then he'd just sit in the back of the truck, put his hoodie up and just sit there on his phone like other kids and keep himself to himself. So he's a quiet young man. He's had to adapt to the world he's now in, which is high profile, high media expectations, and I think he's done an amazing job of coping with it, to be honest with you. He's obviously not my son, but he's as close as possible as you can get. You know, I've followed his whole journey and very, very proud, and hopefully it's, you know, the first of many championships for him and first of many great memories for me to watch Trevor Carlin.

[Pete Ross]

Giving the inside track on Lando Norris to Rebecca Kesby, the British photographer Martin Parr has died of cancer at the age of 73. For more than 50 years, Martin Parr took quirky and often humorous photographs of working class people doing everyday things like queuing for ice cream, sunbathing on the beach or camping. Here he is talking about his work.

[Jeremy Bowen]

One of the good things about Britain is that we do have a good sense of humour. All I'm doing is seeing the things that I think are interesting. Sometimes they're funny too and people are funny, so how can the work not be funny at some point in their production? But I don't think of myself as being a humorous photographer. It's just naturally, you know, life is strange and life is funny.

[Pete Ross]

Our arts correspondent David Sillitoe knew Martin Parr and he told my colleague Julia McFarlane what he loves about the photographs.

[Advertiser 1]

If you want somebody who evokes Britishness and real Britishness, go to his photographs of new, bright, the poor people there who are sunburnt in seagull strewn chip shop disarray trying to have fun in what looks to be the bleakest of environments. But there is humour and there is joy and there is that bright, vibrant colour. It is utter, utter working class Britishness and it had such an impact because it was the first time he used color, color photography and it just looks like a snap. You know, serious photography is black and white and it's got earnest people with lots of shadows and all sorts of things. This is bright light in your face and you look at it and you go, oh, that feels a bit uncomfortable. But it's also funny and it's moving all at the same time. And there was an awful lot of reactions like that to his pictures when especially those New Brighton ones, some people laughed at them, some people saw a social provocation and lots of others felt quite uncomfortable. Was it cruel, was it mockery that was going on here? I think none of that. I mean I met Martin several times over the years and he was this strange, unassuming man. I mean he could walk into a room. Some people have presence, you know, they're immediately there. He could be there for an hour and you wouldn't spot he was there. He had this sort of, I wouldn't want to call it anti charisma but you know, he never drew attention to himself and he'd take a few snaps and he'd have caught something and you'd see what he photographed and you went, oh, that's what you saw. It will be the little detail. One of my favorite ones is from a fate a Church Fate. And it's a picture of a cellophane wrapped cucumber and cheese sandwich. You cannot think of anything more British, more unappealing, but just by the side of it is a little bowl and it goes, each person's allowed one cherry tomato each with their sandwich. And you go, I've been to that Church fate. That's what he did. And there's a fantastic piece of footage of him at a book signing in France and there's this huge queue of people. I mean, he was treated as a real serious artist. There are enormous numbers of exhibitions of his work because somehow to the rest of the world, that is Britain. It's not a Britain that maybe Britain feels entirely comfortable with. But, but my goodness, when you see it, you recognize it. You go, oh, yeah, I've been there.

[Advertiser 2]

Absolutely wonderful. And you know, you mentioned his color. His pictures were very vivid and it was perhaps for him a way to differentiate him from some of the more rather po faced serious photography of the black and white. How did he use colour in his photographs?

[Advertiser 1]

Whenever you see the pictures, I think the whole thing about the color was that it felt real, it felt a realness. It wasn't art he was creating. There is a sort of self consciousness about black and white that you're creating a visual image. You're taking the real world and elevating it. And documentary photography in particular has lots of sort of heroic poses that always the people. You go, ah, yes, there's struggle going on in the. In the. Amongst the downtrodden, or here is the. The great hero in the war. This was simply just an observation of everyday life.

[Pete Ross]

David Sillitow.

And that's all from us now. But there will be another edition of the Global News podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcastbc.co.uk. you can also find us on X@BBC World Service. Use the hashtag globalnewspod. This edition was mixed by Simon Nunn and produced by Steven Jensen and Wendy Urquhart. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Pete Ross. Until next time. Goodbye.

[Advertiser 2]

What do you think makes the perfect snack?

[Pete Ross]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really.

[Thomas Nadi]

Craving it and it's convenient.

[Advertiser 2]

Could you be more specific when it's cravinient?

[Pete Ross]

Okay.

[Thomas Nadi]

Like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the street at am, pm. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can.

[Advertiser 2]

Grab in just a second at ampm. I'm seeing a pattern here.

[Jeremy Bowen]

Well, yeah.

[Thomas Nadi]

We're talking about what I crave, which.

[Advertiser 2]

Is anything from ampm.

[Thomas Nadi]

What more could you want?

[Jeremy Bowen]

Stop by AMPM where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience. Ampm too much good stuff.