Global News Podcast – The Global Story: Is ISIS Having a Resurgence in Syria?

Date: February 8, 2026
Host: Asma Khalid (BBC World Service)
Guest: Josh Baker, investigative journalist, filmmaker & ISIS expert

Episode Overview

This special episode explores the question: Is the Islamic State group (ISIS) experiencing a resurgence in Syria? Host Asma Khalid speaks with investigative journalist Josh Baker, who has spent years covering ISIS, from their apocalyptic rise to their embattled remnants today. Focusing on recent US airstrikes, shifting political alliances, and the future of thousands still detained from the caliphate’s collapse, the conversation disentangles the complex realities behind the headlines.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Are We Talking About ISIS Again?

• Despite being out of the news, ISIS never really vanished in Syria—they have remained an underground threat (04:17).
• Recent weeks have seen renewed US airstrikes after an attack on US forces and a mass jailbreak of militants (02:09).
• Notably, the US is now transferring thousands of detainees from Syrian prisons into Iraq, reflecting instability in the region (02:30).

Quote:
"They disappeared from the news cycle... But on the ground, they were always still there. Now granted that wasn't at the scale that they once was, but they never really went away."
— Josh Baker (04:17)

2. ISIS’s Rise and Propaganda (2014–2019)

• ISIS was unique among terrorist groups for establishing a so-called state, the “caliphate,” which at its height ruled territory the size of England and governed about 10 million people (05:49).
• Their propaganda lured tens of thousands from over a hundred countries, selling the vision of an Islamic utopia.

Quote:
"People sometimes forget this... At the height of their power, they actually controlled an area the size of England...."
— Josh Baker (05:49)

3. Defeat of the Caliphate and the Fate of Its People

• By 2019, ISIS territory had been reduced to under a square kilometer (09:49).
• The collapse led to tens of thousands—fighters, families, and children—being interned in camps or prisons with no coherent global policy regarding their future (10:35).

Quote:
"Nobody really knew what to do with them. These were people who had been associated with ISIS... Now at that point, the women and children were put into sort of makeshift camps... And the men were put into quite horrific prisons."
— Josh Baker (10:35)

4. Inside The Camps: Lawlessness and Stalemate

• Prison conditions are highly insecure, especially in the infamous Al Hol camp, which hosts people from over 50 countries (13:27–15:07).
• Prisons were always meant to be temporary but have become entrenched and lawless, with pro-ISIS elements controlling portions internally (14:34).
• The longer children and young people stay in these conditions, the more radicalized and cut off they become (13:27).

Quote:
"They're camps where they have found makeshift weapons, knives, but also guns. It is very lawless in these parts..."
— Josh Baker (14:39)

5. International Dilemma: What To Do With ISIS Detainees?

• Huge differences exist between the security recommendations (repatriate, prosecute, or de-radicalize) and political will in Western countries, many of which refuse to take citizens back (15:20–17:07).
• Some countries have quietly repatriated women and children; others leave them in limbo.
• With Syria’s new government seeking national reconciliation, pressure is expected on foreign governments to reclaim their citizens (17:07).

Quote:
"There's a massive difference here between what is politically acceptable and what security experts will tell you should happen. Nobody would dispute that these people pose a threat. But if our notion and our goal is security, this isn't a route to it."
— Josh Baker (15:32)

6. Shift in Power: Syria Post-Assad and US Policy

• After Assad’s fall in December 2024, President Al Shara has sought to unify Syria, including parts formerly administered by US-backed Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) (22:04–24:06).
• US policy is pivoting from supporting Kurdish groups to endorsing a united Syria, sidelining previous local allies (24:08).
• This realignment has led to renewed fighting and shrinking Kurdish control—and internal debate in US politics about loyalty to the Kurds (24:40–25:11).

Notable exchange:

• "They helped us. They fought for us."
• "We need to have their backs."
  — Lindsey Graham, US Senator (24:50–25:07)

7. ISIS’s Current Capabilities and Threats

• With growing government control, ISIS can move more freely, raising risks of attacks and prison breaks (25:37).
• US troops have been targeted and killed in attacks; in response, the US has conducted large-scale airstrikes targeting “ISIS infrastructure” (26:49–27:55).

Quote:
"So what they're commonly referring to when they say [ISIS infrastructure targets] is basically a cave or a hole somewhere in the desert...where there might be a weapons cachet or there might be people in hiding."
— Josh Baker (27:55)

8. Global Threat: Beyond Syria

• While the territorial state is gone, ISIS’s violence persists, notably in Africa and Afghanistan, and it continues to inspire and direct attacks worldwide (29:09–30:17).

Quote:
"While the caliphate is gone, these small issues remain. But if these issues aren't dealt with, they can become a much bigger pain for the world to deal with."
— Josh Baker (30:17)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On ISIS’s Enduring Threat:
  "The group's ability to inflict harm isn’t [gone]. It causes a lot of issues on the continent of Africa... in Afghanistan... and it inspires attacks around the world." – Josh Baker (29:09–30:17)

• On the Dilemma of Children in Camps:
  "The longer they're kept there, security experts will tell you that the further they get from easy de radicalization, if you will, because they don't know an outside world beyond that." – Josh Baker (13:27)

• On US Tensions Over Repatriation:
  "What's really interesting about Donald Trump is on this issue, he has been consistent largely in telling nations to take their former citizens home." – Josh Baker (17:55)

Key Timestamps

• [02:09] – US airstrikes and escaped ISIS militants
• [04:17] – Why ISIS is still relevant
• [05:49] – ISIS’s unique state-building and PR
• [07:27] – Reporting from the ground at the height of ISIS power
• [09:49] – The fall of ISIS’s territory and detention dilemma
• [13:27] – Life inside the camps, security risks
• [15:20] – Divergence between political and security solutions for detainees
• [17:07–18:28] – Country policies on repatriation; pressure ahead
• [22:04–24:06] – Shifting alliances in Syria: Assad’s fall, Kurdish loss
• [25:37] – ISIS movements, attacks, and prison breaks post-2024
• [27:55] – The meaning of “ISIS infrastructure targets”
• [29:09] – The global dimension of ISIS’s threat
• [30:17] – Final reflection on the persistent, evolving risk

Summary

This episode vividly shows that while ISIS as a “state” is gone, the group’s remnants, ideology, and human legacy—tens of thousands held in bleak camps—persist as dangerous problems. Ongoing infighting in Syria, the precarious fate of the camps, and Western political inaction are creating conditions that could spark renewed instability, both in the Middle East and abroad. The episode warns that ignoring or mishandling the legacy of ISIS may yield "a much bigger pain for the world to deal with" in years to come.