Global News Podcast: "The Global Story: Pronatalism - Make America Procreate Again?"

Release Date: March 30, 2025
Host/Author: BBC World Service

Introduction

In this episode of the BBC World Service's Global News Podcast, host Lucy Hawkins delves into the rising pronatalist movement in the United States, exploring its motivations, implications, and the personal convictions of its most fervent advocates. Titled "Pronatalism - Make America Procreate Again?", the episode features an in-depth conversation with Malcolm and Simone Collins, a Pennsylvania family embodying pronatalist ideals, and includes insights from Washington correspondent Nomia Iqbar.

Understanding Pronatalism

Pronatalism Defined:
Pronatalism is the belief or policy that encourages reproduction and values parenthood as a societal cornerstone. According to Malcolm Collins, "Pronatalism is about bringing attention to falling fertility rates and the geopolitical and economic and social consequences of this, and looking for realistic and non-coercive solutions." [03:38]

Historical Context:
Valerie Sanderson provides a historical perspective, highlighting that pronatalist ideas are not new. From biblical injunctions like "be fruitful and multiply" to state policies in 17th-century France and Soviet Russia post-World War II, pronatalism has been employed to bolster populations and labor forces. In contemporary times, Silicon Valley figures invest heavily in fertility and genetic technologies, aiming to optimize birth rates and child quality. [06:59]

The Collins Family: Living Pronatalism

Family Composition:
Malcolm and Simone Collins reside in a farmhouse in Pennsylvania with their six children—ages ranging from almost one year to five years old—and are expecting another. Simone articulates their commitment: "I would love to have as many children as I can physically have... until my uterus is removed in a C-section that goes a little wrong." [08:31]

Personal Sacrifices:
Simone acknowledges the physical risks involved in her decision to continually bear children: "I'm really not afraid of losing my life in a pregnancy or compromising my health. This is something that throughout history has been something that women have gladly taken on." [08:58] Malcolm expresses his support despite the dangers: "If I tell her to stop, I'm functionally erasing all future kids we have from existence." [10:16]

Optimizing Offspring:
The Collins family employs advanced reproductive technologies, such as polygenic risk score selection (PGTP), to assess and select embryos based on potential health risks and desirable traits. Simone explains, "PGTP allows us to look at which embryos have higher risks of things like cancer... and even traits like height and intelligence." [10:35] They also choose distinctive names for their children to instill a sense of unique identity and high expectations. [11:48]

Pronatalism in the Wider Context

Demographic Concerns:
Both Collins emphasize the threat of demographic collapse, where declining birth rates could lead to economic instability, insufficient support for vulnerable populations, and societal decline. Simone warns, "If governments can't figure out how to continue to support the vulnerable people in their societies when they run out of a taxpaying base due to so many old people, we are in really big trouble." [03:57]

Critique of Conventional Solutions:
Simone critiques traditional policy proposals aimed at increasing birth rates, such as subsidized childcare and generous maternity leave, arguing that they do not significantly impact fertility rates. She cites Hungary's extensive spending on pronatalist programs with minimal results: "Sending people free childcare or giving them very generous maternity leave... will not meaningfully increase birth rates." [19:11]

Immigration as an Alternative:
When discussing immigration as a solution to declining birth rates, Malcolm criticizes it as "a purely predatory policy," emphasizing that relying on immigration can exacerbate demographic issues in other countries, such as Latin America, which has already faced significant fertility declines. [19:50]

Pronatalism vs. Eugenics

Clarifying the Difference:
Simone Collins differentiates pronatalism from eugenics by emphasizing consent and individual choice. "Eugenics involves establishing good and bad traits on a population level, whereas what we practice, polygenics, is about maximizing positive traits and minimizing negative ones through individual family choices." [21:07] She underscores the importance of diversity and rejects coercive measures inherent in eugenics.

Public Perception and Overlaps:
Valerie Sanderson notes that while pronatalists generally do not advocate for racial or class-based procreation, there is a fine line between concern over birth rates and extremist ideologies like the "great replacement theory," which is considered racist. [22:40] Critics also associate pronatalism with misogyny, viewing it as reducing women's roles to mere childbearers.

Political Support and Influential Advocates

Trump Administration's Role:
The Collins family sees the Trump administration as a pivotal ally in promoting pronatalist policies. Key figures like Vice President J.D. Vance and Elon Musk publicly support pronatalist ideals. Vance has explicitly stated, "I want more babies in the United States of America," [27:03] while Musk, known for his large family, advocates that "low birth rates present a huge risk to civilization" [27:03].

Tech Industry Involvement:
Prominent Silicon Valley personalities, including Sam Altman of OpenAI, are investing in experimental fertility technologies, further intertwining tech advancements with pronatalist objectives. [28:34]

Pronatalist Conferences:
Malcolm mentions attending pronatalist conferences where diverse viewpoints coexist, ranging from traditional religious perspectives to transhumanist and techno-puritan ideologies. Despite sharing platforms with eugenics advocates like Kevin Dolan, Malcolm emphasizes the movement's internal diversity. [25:27]

Scaling Pronatalism

Personal Experimentation vs. Movement Building:
The Collins family views their large family as an individual experiment rather than a blueprint for others. Malcolm states, "We are one experiment to get through the crucible of fertility collapse," highlighting the movement's diversity and the multitude of personal approaches within pronatalism. [17:56]

Policy Proposals:
The Collins have submitted executive order drafts aimed at making life easier for parents and increasing fertility rates, anticipating support from the pronatalist-aligned administration. [30:53]

Conclusion

The episode concludes by juxtaposing the Collins family's personal dedication to pronatalism with broader societal and political dynamics. While pronatalism presents itself as a solution to demographic and economic challenges, it grapples with ethical concerns and associations with extremist ideologies. As influential figures and administrations increasingly support pronatalist policies, the movement's future and its societal implications remain subjects of significant debate.

Notable Quotes:

• Simone Collins: "We are a family of six with a five year old, a three year old, a two year old and an almost one year old and another baby on the way." [01:47]

• Simone Collins: "I would love to have as many children as I can physically have... until my uterus is removed in a C-section that goes a little wrong." [08:31]

• Malcolm Collins: "Pronatalism is about bringing attention to falling fertility rates and the geopolitical and economic and social consequences of this, and looking for realistic and non-coercive solutions." [03:38]

• Simone Collins: "If governments can't figure out how to continue to support the vulnerable people in their societies when they run out of a taxpaying base due to so many old people, we are in really big trouble." [03:57]

• Valerie Sanderson: "Pronatalism... has been done this way because... pronatalism is permeated throughout the entire organization." [23:05]

• Simone Collins: "The difference between eugenics and what we practice, which we call polygenics, comes down to consent and individual choice." [21:07]

• Valerie Sanderson: "Many would say that the Collins's do have a point there. But it does leave them open to this argument..." [22:40]

• Malcolm Collins: "We are one experiment to get through the crucible of fertility collapse." [17:56]

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