The Global Story: The scandal sinking an Oscars campaign

Summary

Global News Podcast Summary Episode: The Global Story: The Scandal Sinking an Oscars Campaign
Release Date: March 2, 2025
Host: Valerie Sanderson, BBC World Service

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Introduction to "Emilia Perez"

The episode opens with host Valerie Sanderson introducing the Global Story segment, which delves deep into significant international narratives. Lucy Hawkins takes the lead, presenting the central story: the musical film "Emilia Perez". Described as a Spanish-language musical available on Netflix, the film narrates the ambitious and divisive journey of a Mexican drug lord seeking gender-affirming surgery. The star-studded cast includes Selena Gomez, Carla Sophia Gascoigne, and Zoe Saldana.

Lucy Hawkins emphasizes the film's initial promise, noting its positive critical reception and numerous award nominations, positioning it as a potential runaway success during awards season. However, this momentum faced a significant setback due to controversies surrounding the lead actress, Carla Sophia Gascoigne.

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The Controversy Surrounding Carla Sophia Gascoigne

The heart of the episode revolves around the scandal involving Carla Sophia Gascoigne, whose past tweets resurfaced, causing uproar and jeopardizing the film's Oscar campaign.

Noor Nanji, the BBC's culture reporter, provides an in-depth analysis:

• Origin of the Controversy:
  In January, journalists unearthed old tweets from Gascoigne dating back to 2020 and 2021. These tweets included Islamophobic remarks, criticisms of the Black Lives Matter movement, and disparaging comments about diversity at the Academy. Published by Variety at [04:38], these revelations sparked immediate backlash.

• Gascoigne's Response:
  Following the scandal, Gascoigne deactivated her X (formerly Twitter) account and issued multiple apologies. In a statement via Netflix, she expressed deep sorrow for any pain caused, stating, "as someone in a marginalized community, I know all this suffering too well and I am deeply sorry for those that I' caused pain to" ([05:15]). She further addressed the issue in an emotional interview with CNN, vehemently denying racism and attributing some tweets to being taken out of context.

• Impact on the Film's Campaign:
  Gascoigne's absence from subsequent awards ceremonies signaled a tangible impact on the movie's promotional efforts. With her sidelined, the studio pivoted support towards co-star Zoe Saldana, attempting to salvage the film's Oscar prospects.

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Industry Responses and Repercussions

The scandal elicited varied reactions from those associated with "Emilia Perez":

• Film's Director:
  He publicly distanced himself from Gascoigne's tweets, condemning them and stating a severance in communication with her.

• Netflix's Stance:
  Initially silent, Netflix's chief content officer later commented on the situation, lamenting the detriment to everyone's efforts and signaling a strategic shift in their promotional campaign towards Zoe Saldana.

• Awards Season Dynamics:
  Despite the initial surge in nominations, Gascoigne's controversy cast doubt on her Best Actress prospects. Noor Nanji observes that while the film maintained its strong nomination tally, the perception of Gascoigne among Oscar voters has significantly diminished, leaving the competition for Best Actress wide open ([08:23]).

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Comparisons with Previous Hollywood Scandals

To contextualize the current situation, the podcast features insights from Matthew Bellany, a former entertainment lawyer and host of the podcast "The Town":

• Historical Precedents:
  Bellany references past incidents where scandals derailed Oscar campaigns, such as Nate Parker's rape trial resurfacing during the release of his film "The Birth of a Nation", which ultimately hampered the film's success at the Oscars ([15:22]).

• "Green Book" Example:
  Unlike "Emilia Perez", "Green Book" faced its share of controversies, including accusations from the Shirley family and issues surrounding Viggo Mortensen's use of a racial slur. However, these controversies did not significantly impede its Best Picture win, highlighting the inconsistent impact of scandals on Oscar outcomes ([16:16]).

• Industry Practices:
  Bellany criticizes Netflix and other studios for not conducting thorough social media screenings of their talent, a lapse that allowed Gascoigne's problematic tweets to remain undiscovered until the campaign was in full swing. He argues that increased scrutiny is essential, especially for films with Oscar aspirations ([12:29]).

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Debate: Should a Movie Be Judged by Its Stars' Actions?

A central theme of the episode is the ethical dilemma of separating art from the artist:

• Artistic Merit vs. Personal Conduct:
  Bellany contends that while the artistic integrity of "Emilia Perez" should stand on its own, Oscar voters often intertwine the narrative surrounding a film with its creators' personal lives. He posits that voters seek alignment between the film's message and the behavior of its representatives, making it challenging to dissociate the two in the eyes of the Academy ([19:17]).

• Gascoigne's Unique Position:
  As the first openly trans actress nominated in an acting category, Gascoigne held a historic position that amplified the impact of her scandal. Bellany notes that any prominent figure in the campaign would have faced severe repercussions had similar controversies emerged, underscoring the double standards and heightened scrutiny faced by trailblazers ([17:06]).

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Future Implications for Carla Sophia Gascoigne and "Emilia Perez"

Looking ahead, the podcast explores the potential trajectories post-Oscar season:

• Gascoigne's Prospects:
  Despite the backlash, Gascoigne is expected to attend the Oscars, supported by Netflix. Bellany remains cautiously optimistic about her ability to rehabilitate her image, citing Hollywood's tendency to forgive and allow comebacks after sincere apologies and time ([23:52]).

• "Emilia Perez" Without Its Lead:
  The film’s campaign has had to adapt, shifting focus away from Gascoigne to highlight other talents like Zoe Saldana and Selena Gomez. This strategic pivot aims to preserve the film’s chances in various award categories by emphasizing its strengths beyond its troubled lead ([21:46]).

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Carla Sophia Gascoigne on Apologies:
  "I think it would be very distasteful to say that I am a racist or that I've made racist comments towards black people or African Americans in the United States, because I love them. I have millions of friends and I have worked with millions of people, just like I have with Asian people. And with respect to Muslims right now, I have a relationship with a wonderful person, a woman who is Muslim, and she has taught me so much about respect for people. I come from a world where I have faced a lot of hatred and I have gone through many stages in my life."
  — Carla Sophia Gascoigne ([05:52])

• Zoe Saldana on the Scandal:
  "You know what I think is really a bummer for 100 very incredibly talented people who made an amazing movie. And if you look at the nominations and all of these sort of awards, love that it's received. I think it's such a bummer that is distracted from that and that this."
  — Zoe Saldana ([10:50])

• Matthew Bellany on Netflix's Oversight:
  "They do not screen the prior social media history of the talent that they work with. And I think that was a mistake here."
  — Matthew Bellany ([11:06])

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Conclusion

The podcast episode of the Global News Podcast by BBC World Service provides a comprehensive exploration of how "Emilia Perez", a promising Oscar contender, faced a severe setback due to the resurfacing of controversial tweets by its lead actress, Carla Sophia Gascoigne. Through insightful discussions with culture reporter Noor Nanji and former entertainment lawyer Matthew Bellany, the episode delves into the complexities of separating artistic merit from personal conduct, the responsibilities of production studios in vetting talent, and the broader implications for the film’s Oscar campaign. As the awards season progresses, the story of "Emilia Perez" serves as a poignant example of the fragile interplay between art, artist, and public perception in the modern cinematic landscape.

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For more detailed stories and updates, be sure to follow or subscribe to the Global News Podcast wherever you listen.

Transcript

[Valerie Sanderson]

Hello, this is the Global news podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Valerie Sanderson with your weekly bonus from the Global Story, which brings you a single story with depth and insight from the BBC's best journalists. There's a new episode every weekday. Just search for the Global Story wherever you get your pods and be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a single episode. Here's my colleague, Lucy Hawkins.

[Lucy Hawkins]

A musical about a Mexican drug boss seeking gender affirming surgery. Emilia Perez is as ambitious and divisive as it sounds. But it's not the content on screen which is causing most controversy or dominating coverage. Long tipped to be a runaway success at ceremonies throughout awards season, the movie's positive critical reception was strengthened by a wave of nominations and that momentum seemed unstoppable until the re emergence of a series of tweets by lead actress Carla Sophia Gascoigne derailed promoters plans. Apologies and crisis PR followed. But Gascoigne was sidelined by the movie's representatives, all but ending her hopes of further personal plaudits. After throwing its weight behind co star Zoe Saldana, the studio has managed to salvage some success. But ahead of the Oscars, debate is growing about how much this scandal has harmed its performance. Performance. So today we're asking, should we judge a movie by the actions of one of its stars? With me is Noor Nanji, who's one of our culture reporters here at the BBC. Good to see you, Noor.

[Noor Nanji]

Good to see you.

[Lucy Hawkins]

It is one of the most talked about movies of this awards cycle. There's been so much buzz around it. But for anyone who hasn't seen it, what is Amelia Perez all about?

[Noor Nanji]

That's a good question, Emilia.

[Matthew Bellany]

It is.

[Noor Nanji]

So yes, you're right, there's been a lot of buzz around it. But let's go back to what it about. So it's a Spanish language musical, it's available on Netflix, it is set in Mexico, but it's actually mostly filmed in France. There's a lot going on there and it is in a sense, a bit of a far fetched concept. So it's about a Mexican drug lord who changes gender. It's got a cast which includes Selena Gomez, it's got Carla, Sofia Gascon and also Zoe Saldana. And it's definitely been very talked about. In some ways it's quite divisive. Some people you either love it or you hate hate it. You might really like musicals but not think it works with something to do with a drug cartel. So there's a lot Going on, I would say.

[Lucy Hawkins]

And we are going to be talking about the scandal that is surrounding the lead Carlos, Sophia Gascon. But there was already some controversy around the movie before this particular scandal.

[Noor Nanji]

Yeah, that's right. So the film has been criticized for its portrayal of Mexico and also of Mexican people. And that led to some scrutiny of the casting and also the production team involved. So some Mexican critics said that it had negligible involvement essentially of Mexican people among its leading cast and crew. And they. They found that that wasn't right. And also they said that its depiction of the country wasn't quite what they expected to be. And particularly when you're dealing with such a sensitive issue around drugs, it's something that a lot of people felt wasn't handled properly. And there was also some noise around the portrayal of gender affirming surgery. And that's despite the fact you had a trans actress in the lead role. And in fact, the noise got so significant that the lead Carla, Sophia Gascoigne, she actually accused the promoters of a rival film, I' off a smear campaign against Amelia Perez.

[Lucy Hawkins]

And that's something that they have definitely denied.

[Noor Nanji]

They have denied that. Yes, that's right.

[Lucy Hawkins]

I know that lots of people have seen it. Some, as you've mentioned, have loved it. Some people haven't liked it. It's done really, really well when it comes to nominations for all of the awards. We're in that sort of moment, aren't we, of all the award ceremonies taking place. But would you say in terms of the critics, it's had quite a good response?

[Noor Nanji]

It has. It had really gushing reviews from film critics, newspapers, magazines. And then of course, it's been really well the awards ceremonies as well. It won four Golden Globes at five European Film Awards. And then, of course, the Oscar voters have given it a real seal of approval. It is the front runner in a sense. It's got the most nominations heading into the oscars. It's got 13 nominations in total. Carla Sofia Gascoigne is nominated for best actress for the lead role. That makes her the first openly trans person to be nominated in an acting category.

[Lucy Hawkins]

It's interesting as you approach the award season, isn't it, that some movies start to gain a lot of momentum and this has definitely been one of those noor. But it seems to have had a bit of a snag because of these tweets that have emerged. Yes, Gascon scent.

[Noor Nanji]

That's right. So probably towards the end of January, this whole campaign started to take a different direction and that's when a journalist uncovered some old tweets that were posted by Carla Sofia Gascon. And those tweets were, some of them were repeating Islamophobic statements. Some of them were also criticizing Black Lives Matters. They were referring to the death of George Floyd, and also some of them were criticizing diversity at the Academy itself. Now, those posts were mostly, they were on X, formerly known as Twitter, and they were largely from 2020 and 2021. And as I say, they were unearthed by a journalist and then they were reported in Variety.

[Lucy Hawkins]

And how did she respond?

[Noor Nanji]

Well, she subsequently deactivated her account on X and she has since then issued multiple apologies, including via Netflix itself. She said, as someone in a marginalized community, I know all this suffering too well and I am deeply sorry for those that I' caused pain to. And then after that, she gave an emotional one hour long interview in Spanish to cnn. And in that she again, she apologized to anyone who may have been offended by these posts. But she said that very categorically that she is not racist.

[Carla Sophia Gascoigne]

I think it would be very distasteful to say that I am a racist or that I've made racist comments towards black people or African Americans in the United States, because I love them. I have millions of friends and I have worked with millions of people, just like I have with Asian people. And with respect to Muslims right now, I have a relationship with a wonderful person, a woman who is Muslim, and she has taught me so much about respect for people. I come from a world where I have faced a lot of hatred and I have gone through many stages in my life.

[Noor Nanji]

She also said that some of them had been taken out of context. And she also denied a derogatory post that was apparently written about her co star, Selena Gomez. She said she never would have done that, but it is worth mentioning. She's been notably absent from some of the awards ceremonies that have taken place since then. So clearly it has had something of a knock on impact on how this campaign is going.

[Lucy Hawkins]

Yeah, it felt like there was a really big backlash and it was pretty quick as well. How have other people who have been involved in the film responded?

[Noor Nanji]

Yeah, well, the film's director has distanced himself from the tweets. He's condemned them and said that he is no longer in contact with her. Netflix hadn't said much up to a point, but then recently its chief content officer did give a statement. She said that it was a shame for everyone who'd been involved in the film because in a sense, this has sort of taken away from their successes and also said that, you know, there is a sense that Netflix has been, in a way, distancing themselves from it when it comes to the awards ceremony and really refocusing their campaign on Zoe Saldiana, who is in the lead supporting actress category as well. So, you know, it does go into the Oscars, as I say, with 13 nominations. And some film critics have said that this is going to potentially impact how it does that. I think it is fair to say that while back in January you may have said this was the front runner, I think it is no longer the sense that this is the front runner for the Oscars. That does leave the race fully wide open going into this Sunday.

[Lucy Hawkins]

So, Noor, how well known was Carlos Sophia Gascogne before this movie?

[Noor Nanji]

Not that well known. I think that's fair to say. And I think a lot of people saw this as her breakout role and then, of course, to be considered in the race for the Oscars. That was really something that I'm sure a lot of people were quite surprised about.

[Lucy Hawkins]

The best actress category is always so highly anticipated, and Gascon stood a really good chance, it seemed, before all of this because, you know, the first trans actress to win it would have been quite a moment. But do you really think this is totally put aside any her chances?

[Noor Nanji]

I think there's no doubt that this row has definitely derailed the campaign for the film overall and for her. Because, you know, don't forget, this was all happening right when the voting was taking place. Voting for the oscars closed on the 17th of February. So this was all happening right when this was going on. I mean, had this been several months ago, perhaps they may have sort of pushed it aside. But I just think when something's happening so right in the face of Oscar voting, it's very difficult for them to ignore it. And in a sense, it would look quite difficult for them to ignore it. And I think that presented Oscar voters with a very difficult position there. And I think, you know, while she may have been the front runner or one of the strongest candidates, I just don't think she's really in the running. It is a very open race. It's an exciting race this year compared to last year when it was Oppenheimer cleaning up. But at the same time, I think the conversation now is about, is it going to be Demi Moore? Is it going to be Mikey Madison? I'm not really hearing people saying it's going to be Carlos Sofia Gascoigne? You know, had this maybe been a more minor character, then that might have been easier for them to perhaps overlook it. But with someone so central to the film, it's just very difficult for them to separate the two, I think, at this stage.

[Lucy Hawkins]

Thanks so much, Noor. I know you're off to LA for the Oscars. Have a fabulous.

[Noor Nanji]

Thank you. Very excited.

[Lucy Hawkins]

So we've heard how the hype around Emilia Perez turned sour. Next, how does this moment compare to other Hollywood scandals of the past? And should a movie be defined by those who make it? This is the global story. We bring you one big international story in detail, five days a week. Follow or subscribe, wherever you listen. Joining me now is Matthew Bellany. He's a former entertainment lawyer and ex editor of the Hollywood Reporter. Now he's at the digital media company Puck and is the host of the Town. It's a podcast which explores the inside stories from the industry. Hi, Matthew.

[Valerie Sanderson]

Hello.

[Lucy Hawkins]

Now, tell me, have you seen the movie?

[Matthew Bellany]

I have seen Amelia Perez and I enjoyed it. I saw it with a film festival audience in Toronto and it is a wild ride. It's very unusual. I understand some of the controversy around it, but as an audacious piece of filmmaking, I enjoyed it.

[Lucy Hawkins]

Yeah. And you had a scoop of your own when it came to this story, Matthew, because it's Netflix that's distributing the film. And you managed to get quite a reaction from the content officer, the chief content officer of Netflix on Tape that made headlines all over the world. What did she tell you?

[Matthew Bellany]

She said it was a bummer.

[Zoe Saldana]

You know what I think is really a bummer for 100 very incredibly talented people who made an amazing movie. And if you look at the nominations and all of these sort of awards, love that it's received. I think it's such a bummer that is distracted from that and that this.

[Matthew Bellany]

Was something that was unforeseen. They do not screen the prior social media history of the talent that they work with. And I think that was a mistake here.

[Zoe Saldana]

It really has kind of taken the conversation in a different way, except for this incredible movie that Jacques Odillard, who's an incredible director, has made. And so to me, it really is a bummer for a lot of the people who have, like Zoe and Selena, like, incredible performances.

[Matthew Bellany]

When you are in an Oscar race in 2020, there are people out there on social media who are trying to dig up unflattering facts about the candidates. These Oscar campaigns are exactly that. They are campaigns. They are political contests. And for six months, these movies are trying to jockey for position in the hearts and minds of Academy voters around the world. And if there is bad information out there on the Internet, someone is going to find it and resurface it. And Netflix didn't look at Carlos. Sofia Gascon, social media. If they had, they would have discovered these tweets. They could have deleted them. They could have planned and minimized this controversy. They didn't, and it blew up.

[Lucy Hawkins]

That will come as a surprise to a lot of people. But, Matthew, is that just standard practice, that they don't do that kind of deep research? I mean, it's not even that deep, is it? It's simply going onto someone's social media account and looking at what they've been up to.

[Matthew Bellany]

Shockingly, it is common practice. These media companies, these movie studios, don't look at the social media of their talent. Now, if you ask Netflix about this, they will say, we work with thousands and thousands of artists who produce hundreds of TV shows and hundreds of movies every year. We can't go policing every little thing someone has said on the Internet over their entire life. Now, I understand that. I think it's different when you have a movie that is in the Oscar race. And don't Forget, Netflix purchased U.S. rights to this movie at the Cannes Film Festival specifically to do an Oscar campaign for this movie. And I think the people who are in the Oscar race, they are scrutinized to an extent that you have to check their social media. Every one of these candidates does dozens and dozens of press interviews. They are out there campaigning at events and screenings and lunches all over town, all over the world for six months. Bad stuff is gonna come up if it's out there.

[Lucy Hawkins]

Yeah. And she's not just a minor character in one of these films. She's a trans actress, which was gonna bring a lot of attention, for one thing. And she is the lead character. The whole film is built around her.

[Matthew Bellany]

Yeah, that's the name. Amelia Perez. This is Amelia Perez. They knew this was going to be a controversial movie. In fact, that's why they bought it. It is an openly transgender storyline. The transgender actress is the main character. And Netflix liked that. Bought it because they thought it would appeal to Academy voters. And it showed 13 nominations, the most nominations of any film this year for that kind of movie. Not to get the level of scrutiny that I think it deserved from Netflix, I think is a mistake. Now, you could not anticipate this kind of a situation. It is the worst case scenario. I had a guest on the town call Gascon a terrorist because she really did blow up this campaign. And it wasn't just that there were bad tweets. The tweets that were uncovered undermined the message of the film, one of acceptance, tolerance of representation. And these tweets were just so regressive.

[Lucy Hawkins]

This isn't the first time, though, Matthew, that a film has suffered a serious PR hit during awards seasons, though, is it?

[Matthew Bellany]

No. I mean, there have been little micro controversies that have come up over the years. There was a film about 10 years ago called the Birth of a Nation, which was directed by a young filmmaker named Nate Parker. And that film sold at the Sundance Film Festival for what was then a record amount of money, and the studio behind it planned an Oscar campaign. What they didn't plan was that there would be some news reports resurfaces that the filmmaker had been on trial in college for rape.

[Selena Gomez]

Nate Parker is on the brink of superstardom. The rave reviews continue to pour in for his film, the Birth of a Nation. But for some moviegoers, a troubling rape allegation from his past is making it difficult to support Parker in the present.

[Matthew Bellany]

He was ultimately acquitted of that, and he had denied that he was at fault at all. But that also derailed the Oscar campaign, and ultimately the film barely even got a release.

[Lucy Hawkins]

What about Green Book?

[Viggo Mortensen]

Green Book has been hit with controversy after controversy after controversy.

[Lucy Hawkins]

Did the critic, because it had quite a lot of criticism as well.

[Viggo Mortensen]

First, Viggo Mortensen, the lead actor, he used the N word on a panel for the film. Then next, the Shirley family, who, of course, the film is about Don Shirley. They spoke out against the film, saying that it was inaccurate and they had nothing to do with it. And now we have two more huge controversies. Screenwriting.

[Lucy Hawkins]

Ian and Matthew won Best Picture in the Oscars, so it survived.

[Matthew Bellany]

Green Book is a great example of how the Academy voters tend not to care that much about these online controversies. You know, oh, this film is not representative of a certain group or this. This person has said insensitive things in the past. It didn't stick because it wasn't contrary to the narrative of the film in a way that Emilia Perez was. This was just noise that was out there. And Academy voters liked the movie, didn't care about the controversy and the noise, and voted for it anyways. So not all of these controversies actually stick.

[Lucy Hawkins]

Is there a credible argument, Matthew, to what some people say, which is that Gascon is being held to a different standard to other people?

[Matthew Bellany]

I understand that argument, and I don't agree with it because I think if anyone involved with Emilia Perez had had Those tweets resurfaced. If it was Zoe Saldana, if it was Selena Gomez, if it was the filmmaker Odillard, if it was any of them that had those resurfaced, I think it would have absolutely imploded the film's campaign. They were so reprehensible. And it wasn't a one off. It wasn't something that happened when this person was 15 years old. It wasn't something that was easily explained away. This was a barrage of really offensive messaging. Maybe there was more attention on it because this was the first transgender best actress nominee, but I think that any of the talent involved in any of these films would have suffered for those tweets.

[Lucy Hawkins]

And did she also suffer a bit because she was largely unknown? She doesn't have a big body of work kind of propping her up and her reputation.

[Matthew Bellany]

Yeah, maybe. I don't know. If it was Timothee Chalamet that had set those tweets, I think he would have had a really tough time and it probably would have been a much bigger deal. The other thing about the Oscar season that is really interesting when it comes to controversies is people go from complete unknowns, sorry to use the pun of a movie, they go from complete unknowns to ubiquitous in the course of five to seven months. Carla Gascon is a person that I had never heard of. I assume most people in the film community in the US had never heard of, but by the time these tweets were uncovered, this is a person that I knew pretty well through events, through media, through commercials, through a press campaign that Netflix had orchestrated precisely to bring attention to this person. And this happens every year. I remember back when Lupita Nyong'o was an unknown actress. She ended up winning, and she's had a great career after that. It adds a little bit of urgency to this need to check people's social media, because what you post as an unknown person can come back to hurt you when you are a very famous person. And that's what happened in this situation.

[Lucy Hawkins]

What about the movie itself, though, Matthew? Should Amelia Perez be condemned the entire movie, and judged because of the actions of this one actress?

[Matthew Bellany]

That is a very good question. And I would argue no, that the art should speak for itself, that what the filmmaker was trying to accomplish with it will still endure even though this controversy has surrounded it. Unfortunately, that's not how Oscar voters vote. In the history of the Academy Awards, the voters have over and over shown that they vote on the merits of the art, but they also vote on the narrative. Surrounding the movie. And the narrative is created a number of different ways. It is self created. It can be things that the candidate says at different award shows. Look at what's going on with Demi Moore right now. She's winning all these awards for the substance, a great movie and a great performance. But there is also a narrative around her that she has been in this business for 40 years, has put in her time, she has never been nominated for an Oscar. And it's about time.

[Selena Gomez]

And I am so, so grateful that.

[Lucy Hawkins]

I have continued over these so many years to be able to try and sometimes succeed and sometimes fail, but to be able to keep going.

[Matthew Bellany]

And I think that for Best Picture, you want to vote for something that you think is important. And it's very difficult to put your heart behind a movie as much as you liked it if you don't believe the narrative of the main character. And the narrative is the stuff going on outside the movie.

[Lucy Hawkins]

Is their heart going to be behind Zoe Saldana, though? Because she seems to have escaped a lot of the controversy and she's doing well.

[Matthew Bellany]

I think Zoe Saldana will end up winning. And that's a perfect example, is there's a feeling throughout Hollywood that she should not be punished for the actions of her co star. She's done everything right this season. She's shaken all the hands. She's showed up at all the awards ceremonies, she's done the media. She's had a great career and has never been honored in this way. There is a sense that she's almost like a martyr in a way, that she's kind of suffered for this movie and being dragged down. Voting for her is a way to honor the movie without voting for it for Best Picture.

[Lucy Hawkins]

And is it standard that, along with all of the effort that she's put in? So has the marketing budget gone with her from Netflix? Like it's really pivoted from Gascon to Zoe Saldana. Is that standard practice?

[Matthew Bellany]

They pivoted because they had to pivot. Because as a smart campaigner, it's like a political campaign. If your vice president has a scandal, your ads don't focus on the vice president. Your ads focus on other people in the campaign. And that's exactly what happened in Netflix. Emilia Perez, the character has sort of disappeared from the advertising of the movie called Emilia Perez. It's focused almost entirely on Zoe Saldana, Selena Gomez, the music, the artistry of it. But even at the SAG Awards, which is a key precursor, they completely erased Amelia Perez from the Amelia Perez promo. Netflix has spent Tens of millions of dollars on this campaign designed to raise awareness of the movie and position it for awards voters. They have to pivot. If they have this controversy, they can't continue as if nothing has happened. They have to respond. When you talk to awards voters, they don't want to vote for this movie. They got a really bad taste in their mouth from these comments.

[Lucy Hawkins]

Matthew, we think that Sofia Gascon is actually going to go to the Oscars. How does that work? Does she have Netflix backing? Will she have money behind her to help her get ready for the night? I mean, it's an expensive business.

[Matthew Bellany]

It is. I mean, she could go on her own. The nominees are invited to attend. So it's not like she, you know, is banned or has to do anything to get invited. The key, as you mentioned, is whether Netflix is going to support her going. And my understanding is they are going to support her going to the Oscars. They are going to fly her aid and put her up just like the other talent. I don't know how the financials work on the glam and getting ready. I don't know how much Netflix will front on that. Netflix was paying for her to have a PR person throughout the season. That I believe is not happening anymore. But they've decided that for the good of the movie, she is going to attend the Oscars. She has not attended a number of other ceremonies like the BAFTAs or the SAG awards, but for the big one, for the Oscars, she will be there. And presumably she will do the red carpet. So that should be interesting.

[Lucy Hawkins]

It will be. And what about her future beyond the Oscars? She's been canceled for now. Can she make a comeback?

[Matthew Bellany]

Listen, Hollywood has a long tradition of forgiving and for allowing people to apologize, to move on. So I think with a little time and with a little bit of coaching, perhaps she could apologize and come back. We'll see.

[Lucy Hawkins]

Matthew, great to have you with us on the pod. Thanks so much.

[Matthew Bellany]

Thank you.

[Lucy Hawkins]

And thanks so much to you for listening. If you want to get in touch, email [e-mail] wherever you're listening in the world. See you next time.

[Valerie Sanderson]

If you enjoyed listening to the Global Story and would like to hear more, there's a new episode every weekday. Just search for the Global Story wherever you get your BBC podcasts and be sure to click subscribe or follow. We'll have another edition of the Global News Podcast later. Until then, bye.