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- [00:00]
BBC News Presenter
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- [00:06]
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- [01:17]
Janet Jaleel
this is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Janet Jaleel and in the early hours of Friday 27th March, these are our main stories. Transgender athletes are to be banned from women's sports at the next Olympics. President Trump gives Iran 10 more days to agree a peace deal or face attacks on the country's power plants. Also in this podcast, the Manchester City striker Erling Haaland donates a rare and ancient book on Vikings to his hometown in Norway.
- [01:54]
Andreas Volsun
Erling is proud of where we come from and he gave us a big, big, huge gift to Brunner and we are so grateful and thankful for that.
- [02:07]
Janet Jaleel
After years of controversies involving transgender athletes, it's been announced that women's sports at the Olympics will be ring fenced for athletes who are biologically female. The International Olympic Committee says that the ruling will take effect from 2028 at the next Games in Los Angeles. Under the new rules, transgender women or those with differences in sexual or DSD will no longer be able to compete in female events. The IOC says a once in a lifetime sex test will be introduced before those Games. Here's the IOC President, Kirsty Coventry.
- [02:44]
Kirsty Coventry
The policy that we have announced is based on science and it has been led by medical experts with the best interests of athletes at its heart. The scientific evidence is very clear. Male chromosomes give performance advantages in sports that rely on strength, power or endurance. At the Olympic Games, even the smallest margins can be the difference between victory and defeat. So it's absolutely clear that it would not be fair for biological males to compete in the female category. In addition, in Some sports, it would simply not be safe.
- [03:18]
Janet Jaleel
Our sports editor, Dan Rowan, has been looking at how the decision was reached and what it means.
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Dan Rowan
It is a really significant decision, this by the ioc, because for years now, they and indeed other major sports bodies have been wrestling with this debate over how they should balance fairness and safety on the one hand, with inclusion on the other. And the IOC has faced a number of controversies over the years when it comes to the participation of either transgender athletes, athletes who are biological males who identify as women, or DSD athletes, those born with differences of sexual development who have male chromosomes and how they can regulate their eligibility for female competition. Amid a lot of debate, and I think it's a reflection of just how sensitive an area of policy it is that the ioc, who have traditionally left it to international sports to decide on their policies for female competition, have now undergone this major shift. It does mean a blanket ban on transgender athletes and DSD athletes from women's sport. I think that will be welcomed by many who have long felt that such a move is needed if fairness and safety is to be preserved. And they say that this genetic test that it will rely upon has been recently rolled out successfully in sports like athletics and boxing as well. They say reliable and proportionate has the backing of some sports scientists, along with the vast majority of athletes, they say, and it's more humane than requiring athletes to lower their natural testosterone levels, as we've seen in the past. But there are opponents who remain very concerned that the approach is invasive. It could be unreliable, it may be disproportionate, given the numbers that we're talking about, and there could be potential false positives. And, in fact, a number of academics earlier this month called sex testing a backward step, a harmful anachronism, and that it violated the human rights of athletes and could create stigma. So this will, I think, still be the source of much controversy, even though the IOC will hope that it helps draw a line under these years of debate.
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Janet Jaleel
Dan Rowan. Well, as Dan mentioned there, the response has been sharply divided. Supporters say it's a necessary step to protect fairness and safety in the female category, while critics say the move risks excluding athletes and undermining inclusion in sport. One of those opposed to the ban is Alexandra Xanthaki, the UN Special Rapporteur in the field of cultural and a professor of law at Brunel University here
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Alexandra Xanthaki
in the uk the way we define women at the moment is, you know, the basis of gender, of experiences on society and how we view ourselves and how society views us. So it is really undermining to create this debate that it has been created out of nowhere in the past, you know, kind of three, four years now between so called women and so called males identifying themselves as women. We continue to be very, very exclusive and we continue to violate the right of these people to identify themselves the way they have chosen.
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Janet Jaleel
One of those welcoming the decision is a former British Olympic swimmer and a long time campaigner on women's sports, Sharon Davies. She spoke to Sean Ley.
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Sharon Davies
Women athletes have been sidelined. And I can guarantee you that if you poll women athletes today, they would tell you that they want fair and safe spirit Sport. Women get 5% of all the money that's in the world of sport. And to have removed fair and safe sport is also just ridiculously unfair. And this doesn't happen to men's sport. And I think what's also really interesting is that trans identifying females, so trans men, we've seen those competing in the Olympic games in the women's category and providing they're not taking testosterone, none of the women have a problem with that.
- [06:58]
Interviewer
What about the larger category which is judging by what's happened in the past, this is a large category and those with what are defined as, yes, dsd, so sex differences, developmental differences in sex. Some of those differences are supposed to be picked up by this test. But even the man who designed the test, this is the SRY test, says it shouldn't. This is Professor Andrew Sinclair says it shouldn't be used to establish biological sex because all it tells you is whether or not a gene is present. It doesn't tell you how it's functioning, whether a test is at all, whether testeron testosterone is produced and is so whether it can be used by the body. It's a really crude measure.
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Sharon Davies
Well, I disagree, you know, and obviously the IOC disagree and they've had all the medical experts in there today, you know, and for the last several months working on this. What the SRY gene does is, as you say, it's a gene that sits on the Y chromosome. Only males have Y chromosomes. And so that turns on puberty. And that is what they're looking for. They're looking for the puberty advantage that biological males have, which means that it's unfair to compete against females. And so that is the whole point of this, right, you know, is to give female athletes the opportunity to have the same sporting chance as biological males. Get.
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Interviewer
I'm interested by your point about advantage because there are other forms of genetic advantage, aren't there, which some people have,
- [08:20]
Sharon Davies
but we don't have races for people with long arms or big feet, right? So when this comes along and people go, oh, Michael Phelps had very long arms and a very long body and was explaining, extremely successful. All of Michael Phelps's world records have gone within a space of four years of him retiring. They were beaten by other males. Now, the difference between male and female performance at the Olympic games ranges between 10 and 30%. In boxing, it's 160% that a male will punch.
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Janet Jaleel
Do you feel any female, do you
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Interviewer
feel any sympathy for those who find themselves in this category now and who will be excluded as a result?
- [08:51]
Sharon Davies
I am frustrated for women that it's taken 26 years for us to be able to get back to a point where women are considered worthy of fair sport. And what we could have been doing is working out ways to include everybody without throwing women's sport under the bus. And this, you know, there's a fantastic statistic in America that shows that 50% of CEOs and major companies, female CEOs and major companies in America, came through sports. Now, if we take those opportunities away from young girls, what are we telling them? We're telling them they're not worthy of fair sport. So, you know, this is based on science, and the science wasn't used. And at long last, the science is now being used, and so it should be.
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Janet Jaleel
Former Olympic swimmer Sharon Davies. Let's turn now to the war in the Middle East. And once again, President Trump has delayed the deadline he's given to Iran for it to reach a deal with the US or face attacks on its power plants. Initially, he gave Iran 48 hours, then an extra five days. Now he's given it 10 days more until Monday 6 April. Mr. Trump told Fox News that he is the opposite of desperate, claiming that it's Iran and not him that's begging to make a deal.
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Donald Trump
Importantly, they said to me very nicely through my people, could we have more time, because we're talking about tomorrow night, which is pretty quick. And so I gave them a 10 day. They asked for seven. You're going to say, oh, Trump's a terrible negotiator. They asked for seven. And I said, I'm going to give you 10. And they were very thankful about that. Now they may say, oh, we're not speaking. I don't like that, because that wasn't true the last time, as you found out. But we are speaking and it's going fairly well. And so I gave them 10 days.
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Janet Jaleel
But the regime denies its negotiating with the US and four weeks into the war, it retains an iron grip on Iran despite Israel's campaign of assassinations as hydra, like every senior figure killed, is replaced by another hardliner. With Iran blockading the vital oil route, the Strait of Hormuz, oil prices have soared and stock markets have fallen, increasing the pressure on Mr. Trump. Meanwhile, thousands of additional US troops are being deployed to the Middle east amid speculation that they could be used in a future ground operation in Iran. Our diplomatic correspondent James Landale gave us his take on President Trump's latest ultimatum to Iran.
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James Landale
We should take this with a pinch of salt. Donald Trump's relationship with deadlines is, how can I put it, slightly fluid. The first thing it does though is it really buys him time. It buys some time for diplomacy, if that's what he wants to do. We do know that messages are being exchanged between both the US And Iran here through intermediaries. There's talk of a possible meeting in Pakistan at some stage. Yes, diplomatic expectations are very low, but Donald Trump insists he can call them talks and they are going very well. But also remember, this potentially buys some time to assemble more military force. There is an amphibious group of U.S. marines on its way from Japan. There is a group of American, thousands of American paratroopers on their way from California. They will take a bit of time to come. But remember, this deadline only refers to US Attacks on Iranian energy targets. So in other words, I think the likelihood is that, that we're just going to see a continuation of this war of attrition, continuing US And Israeli attacks. Remember, they killed a very senior Iranian naval commander overnight, the man who's in charge of restricting traffic through the Strait of Hormuz. And I think that's the key point. If this pause, this does go on for another 10 days, that means another 10 days of no traffic, largely no traffic through the Strait of Hormuz and all of that damage to the global economy.
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Janet Jaleel
James Landau, I asked our US Correspondent Peter Bowes whether the President was looking to find a way to end the war or simply, simply trying to gain time while reinforcements arrive.
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BBC News Presenter
Well, it would appear on the surface it's a gain more time scenario, although it is quite difficult, as we've just been hearing there from James, to really fully understand the strategy here. We know that Donald Trump, as you said earlier in the week, announced 48 hours then this five day pause on strikes against Iran's energy infrastructure, that five days due to expire very soon on Friday. The president saying when he announced that that very good and product conversations aimed at a complete and total resolution of hostilities were underway, although Iran has denied that talks are underway to end the war. And just to share exactly what he said in his latest Truth Social post, he said as per Iranian government request, now we have no independent verification of this supposed Iranian government request. But he says, please let this statement serve to represent that I am pausing the period of energy plant destruction by 10 days goes on to say that talks are on going and going very well. This is a very one sided assessment of the situation.
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Janet Jaleel
And meanwhile, pressure is intensifying on him all the time with falling approval ratings, sinking stock markets, rising oil prices and prices at the pump rising as well.
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BBC News Presenter
And therein may lie, some would say, the reasoning behind this latest pause. The immediate impact of this 10 day extension has been a slight easing of pressure on crude oil prices, which are rising again for much of Thursday. It's the kind of news to some extent that the markets want to hear and maybe it addresses some of the growing concerns of Americans who are nervous about the volatility of the markets, the impact on petrol prices, and I think most of all a level of frustration that's very difficult, as I say, really to understand the president's strategy here without any clear indication of when or particularly how this war, or as the president is now calling it, a military operation, is going to end.
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Janet Jaleel
He likes to keep people guessing. He likes to give surprises. Let's say there was to be an attack this week, that he was to put boots on the ground. What risks would that entail for the president?
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BBC News Presenter
That possibility has existed since the war started at the end of last month. Two days ago, there were similar reports about the Pentagon planning to send thousands of troops. It would clearly come with huge risks to the president and indeed those troops if they are deployed. The potential for more loss of life, American life lives certainly wouldn't sit well with people here, far from it. And remember Donald Trump's promise, political promise not to start wars. We're still seven months away from the midterm elections which could be so crucial for this president's second term or the final two years. And a nation at war then would be very risky for Mr. Trump as the election campaign gets underway during the coming months.
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Janet Jaleel
Peter Bowes, well, amid those concerns, the Iran war could cost President Trump and the Republicans the support of voters in the run up to the midterm elections. This year's U.S. conservative Political Action Conference is a chance for him to rally his traditionally loyal base. Thousands of activists and lawmakers are attending the gathering in Texas this week among the featured speakers are President Trump's former adviser Steve Bannon, a forceful opponent of the war, and his one time rival, the Republican Senator Ted Cruz, a strong supporter of military action against Iran. Also there is our correspondent Anthony Zuerka.
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Anthony Zuerka
The mood here at CPAC is like many CPACs, it's a celebration of being conservative. It's a celebration of being among like minded political ideologues. Although I'm just walking out of a protest of pro regime change Iranians in favor of Reza Pahlavi and they are very excited about the Iran war and about the progress that is being made and in their view, the necessity of that. Now when I get inside cpa, Iranian activists are there as well. But there's also concern among the rank and file conservatives I've talked to some trust Donald Trump. They trust that he's going to find a way out of this war. They trust that he started it for a good reason. But there are others, particularly younger conservatives, who are concerned that this sounds a lot like the kind of forever wars, the kind of Middle east wars that Trump campaigned against and that they remember from 2003 in the Iraq war. Here are a few of the voices I spoke with over the course of the day.
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Pro-Regime Change Iranian Activist
I'm happy with it. I've talked to many Iranians and they, they're happy with it. They want the dictatorship out of the way and they want the people to have a vote democratic country like the United States.
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Conservative Conference Attendee
I, I'm kind of mixed on that. I'm not sure if that was the right call. I don't know the answers. I'm not a politician. I don't know like the ins and outs of it. I think a lot of times we as like citizens, we know what we see on the news and we know what we hear, but we don't know the behind the scenes of it.
- [17:50]
Pro-Regime Change Iranian Activist
President Trump ran on the promise that we were going to have no new wars. I think that many Republicans look at something like the war in Iran right now, which didn't receive congressional authorization and wasn't something that would be authorized through the War Powers act, is something that concerns us.
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Janet Jaleel
And Anthony, the war in Iran has been a big focus. But the release of the Epstein files has also divided Trump supporters too.
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Anthony Zuerka
It has. And typically when I talk to conservatives, it's something that comes up. They used to be really big advocates of releasing the files of transparency. The Epstein files aren't coming up here. And many of the people who are at this conference, while they disagree over Iran, are also talking about trying to find sources of unity because they understand that with the midterm congressional elections coming up in November, their party is on its back heels. And if they don't stick together and they don't turn out to vote, they could very well lose control of the U.S. congress.
- [18:46]
Janet Jaleel
And Anthony, outside the U.S. a lot of people are very alarmed about what Donald Trump has started in the Middle East. But among his core supporters, he still has a lot of backing. Can you explain to us more why that is for people outside the United States?
- [19:04]
Anthony Zuerka
Well, the one thing about Donald Trump's base is that it is overwhelmingly loyal. They have stuck with the president from the beginning, from 2015 when he began his presidential campaign, through his first term, through the COVID pandemic, through his attempts to contest the 2020 election, during his time out of office. And now that he's back in office, it's going to take a lot for them to break with this president. So when I do talk to them, the thing that they say is that they are willing to give Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt. They know he promised them no forever wars, no wars in the Middle east, but they're willing to trust that he has a plan, even if he hasn't shared it. And he is going to find a way out of this war that leaves America better than it was when it went in.
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Janet Jaleel
Anthony Zircher still to come in this podcast, Paul McCartney surprises his many fans by announcing his his first new album for more than five years.
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Paul McCartney
Just a lot of memories of Liverpool for me. And that involves a little bit in the middle. About John 4th Lynn Road, the street I used to live in.
- [20:18]
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- [22:29]
Janet Jaleel
This is the Global News Podcast Nearly three months since the then Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro and his wife were seized by US forces, they have made their second appearance in a New York courtroom. The judge appeared sympathetic to their claim that they should be allowed to pay for their defence with Venezuelan government funds. As Neda Torfik, our correspondent there, explained.
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Neda Torfik
You know, the judge really was sympathetic to the defense here and really signaled that he would be ruling in their favor. For one, he said that the right to defense was paramount in the constitution and outweighed what he viewed as past concerns about national security because prosecutors have argued that sanctions in place which block the ability of the Venezuelan government to fund Nicolas Maduro and his wife's defense are based on national security and foreign policy concerns. But the judge said that the fact that the two are now in detention means they pose no ongoing threat. And he also no noted that the US Government is now working with the Venezuelan government. So he said the sanctions that have been in place since the Obama era really aren't that relevant anymore. And he suggested that if he can't directly order the U.S. treasury to issue a license to block the sanctions in this case, that the government should come up with some other remedy because he agreed with the defense here.
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Interviewer
It's always hard to put predict this, but do we have any idea of an ultimate timescale how long this goes on for?
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Neda Torfik
Look, I think if anything, this hearing really underscored how drawn out and long this legal process is going to be. For one, this was supposed to be a hearing to set out key dates and scheduling for this trial. We haven't even gotten to that. We certainly don't have a trial date set. And some of the far more weightier issues, you know, Nicolas Maduro's defense lawyer had signaled that he would bring up that Nicolas Maduro had immunity as a head of state. The counterargument to that is that the U.S. government says they haven't recognized him as the president of Venezuela since elections in 2018 that they say were essentially flawed and rigged. And so these are other weightier issues that the parties haven't even been able to get to because of this fundamental concern about who will be paying the Maduro's lawyers. So what we have seen today in court is that this could be months or even years before a trial gets underway.
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Interviewer
Just briefly Neda, a sense of the, the mood both inside and outside, especially from Venezuelans who are around court today.
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Neda Torfik
Yeah, inside the Maduro's, you know, physically their appearance hasn't changed much but their demeanor was very different. Maduro didn't shout out in court, they remained quiet. But outside, high tensions both in support of Maduro and against him clashing at one point here, clearly tensions still high.
- [25:23]
Janet Jaleel
Ned Atorfik speaking to Anka Desai. Now he's sold more than 500 million records worldwide, from the early days of the Beatles to his solo projects. And On Thursday, Paul McCartney surprised fans by announcing his first new album for more than five years, the Boys of Dungeon Lane. It's named after a road he used to walk down as a child on his way to go bird watching. Because of copyright restrictions, we're unable to play you some of the new single days we left behind. Paul McCartney was able to give us a flavour in a BBC interview describing the music as a collection of memories he hadn't shared before.
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Paul McCartney
And this next song is like very much a memory song for me. I was doing an interview yesterday and I think, well, songwriters, you know, and writers in general. So what else can you draw on besides the past? I mean you can do the present but still a lot of the past in that. So anyway, this is the past. You know, it's just a lot of memories of Liverpool for me. And that involves a little bit in the middle about John 4th Lynn Road, which is where I street I used to live in.
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Janet Jaleel
John Keats is director of the Cavern Club in Liverpool, the world famous venue where the Beatles played hundreds of times. What does he make of the new song?
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John Keats
I think it's lovely. What's lovely about it is he's, he's using his, his voice which is the voice he's got now, you know, when you go see Paul McCartney now, and it drives me insane when you people go, oh, his voice isn't what it used to be, you know, have you ever tried singing those songs from like when he was in his early 20s? But his, the tone of his voice on this record is the voice of Paul now and then, given the lyrical content and the context of it, it, it's beautiful and a beautiful production as well. It's, it's like anything the Beatles put out or Paul puts out, you, you know, it's going to be good. Not just because, oh, it's the Beatles, it's gonna, they wouldn't put anything out. It's like, it's like the forthcoming films that everybody says, well, you know, what's your take on the films? You know, what are they going to be? I said, well, considering the Beatles themselves and Apple are behind them and it's Sam Mendes, they're not going to mess it up. You know, it's, it's that sort of thing. So this, which we haven't had a big lead on, there was teasers yesterday about the album coming out, so that's okay. And how amazing that a guy who's is not just a guy, it's Paul McCartney, who's 84 in June releases a new song and the world will go insane about it.
- [27:55]
Janet Jaleel
John Keeps of the Cavan Club. The Manchester City striker Erling Haaland is considered one of the best footballers in the world and the greatest Norwegian player of all time. But not content with inspiring people in Norway through his success on the pitch. And he also wants to do so through history by teaching them about the vikings. He's spent $130,000 on a rare 16th century book of Viking sagas and has donated it to a public library in the Norwegian town of Brune, where he grew up. It's believed to be the only surviving copy of this book about medieval Viking kings, queens and warriors. And it's the most expensive book purchase of all time in the country. The town mayor, Andreas Volsun, is delighted.
- [28:42]
Andreas Volsun
Yes, we are extremely happy and so thankful. We are proud, proud citizens in Brune. Erling is proud where we come from. He's proud of Brijne. Then he gave us a big, big, huge gift to Bryne and we are so grateful and thankful for that.
- [28:59]
Janet Jaleel
Professor Thorgrb Teitelstad is a Norwegian historian specializing in Norse sagas and the Viking age. He told us why this book is so special.
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T
This book is totally unique because it's the first book that ever drew from the Norse sagas, including what we later on called the Vikings. In the period before the book was printed, the sagas were about to be forgotten because Norway was occupied by Denmark and you know what happened with the country when it is occupied by a foreign state. It always hit the culture. This single book opens up and puts the light on the groundwork of what is now a global Viking culture or interest. Erling Holland he in a way writes world cultural history by his deed. I think there is no comparable person within sports that ever gave such a gift to the interest of his people and literature. He will open by doing this, I think a door to an increased interest in the Sahur universe.
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Janet Jaleel
Professor Torgrim Title start
- [30:24]
Sharon Davies
and that's all
- [30:25]
Janet Jaleel
from us for now. If you want to get in touch, you can email us@globalpodcastbc.co.uk. this edition of the Global News Podcast was mixed by Derek Clark. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Janat Jalil. Until next time, goodbye.
- [30:48]
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