Trump and Putin fail to reach Ukraine deal

Summary

Global News Podcast – “Trump and Putin fail to reach Ukraine deal”

BBC World Service | August 16, 2025
Host: Jackie Leonard

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the highly anticipated talks between U.S. President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin regarding the war in Ukraine. Despite mutual public respect, the summit ended without a ceasefire or major breakthrough. The episode also covers the African Union’s push for a more accurate world map representation of Africa, the UN’s dire update on famine and killings in Gaza, renewed tensions in Lebanon over Hezbollah, and the fascinating tale of the CIA’s Kryptos sculpture. The show concludes with intimate recollections from photographer Platon, who’s captured both Trump and Putin.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump-Putin Ukraine Talks: Atmosphere without Outcome

[01:38 – 09:25]

• Summit Overview:

  • The meeting took place at the U.S. military base in Anchorage, Alaska, a symbolic Cold War site.
  • Trump and Putin led delegations in a two-and-a-half-hour meeting, concluding with a notably brief press conference.
  • No mention of a ceasefire or concrete progress, despite both leaders describing the talks as "constructive."

• Notable Details:

  • Putin rode with Trump in “the Beast,” eschewing his own Russian limousine.
  • Ukrainian President Zelensky was excluded from the summit, expressing concern and stating, “Ukraine needed to be involved in discussions to secure a lasting peace.” [08:11]

• Trump’s Statement:

  “He’s a smart guy, been doing it for a long time, but so have I… There’s a good respect level on both sides, and I think, you know, something’s going to come of it.”
  — Donald Trump, on Air Force One [03:37]

• Putin’s Statement:

  “Our negotiations have been held in a constructive atmosphere of mutual respect… quite useful. It only makes sense that we’ve met here because our countries, though separated by the oceans, are close neighbors.”
  — Vladimir Putin, via interpreter at press conference [04:43]

• Analysis:

  • Gary O'Donoghue (BBC reporter):

    “Not a lot really to get your teeth into here, is there?... That unwillingness to take any questions is an indication either they think there’s some sensitive progress… or that there really isn’t anything to say.” [05:41] “If you’re in Ukraine… what does it mean for me tonight?... Donald Trump… has always said, I get great words from Vladimir Putin on the phone... and then he goes away and bombs civilian areas.” [06:50]

  • “No deal until there’s a deal,” and perhaps future talks in Moscow are possible.

• Situation on the Ground:

  • In Ukraine, airstrikes and drone attacks continued; “they’re still bombing us,” reported a Ukrainian resident—emphasizing lack of impact on the ground. [07:11]
  • Russia appears to be seeking stronger political positioning ahead of talks.

2. CIA’s Kryptos Sculpture: The Unsolved Code

[09:25 – 14:48]

• Background:

  • Kryptos, the iconic encrypted sculpture by artist Jim Sanborn, stands outside CIA headquarters; its fourth and final code remains unsolved.
  • Sanborn is auctioning the solution to ensure it “outlives him.”

• Sanborn’s Reflections:

  “I know nothing about mathematics whatsoever, but I came up with a code that seems to have baffled for decades.” [10:22] “You try to forget it all the time... I didn’t want to… divulge it. And so there it is.” [11:32]

  • Discusses hints embedded in already solved panels and recounts giving a possible solution to CIA chief William Webster, now deceased.

• Quote on Discovery:

  “It’s that sense of discovery that excites me… and it’s fabulous.” [14:08]

3. Gaza: Humanitarian Crisis Deepens

[15:00 – 15:50]

• UN Report:
  • Over 1,700 Palestinians killed seeking aid since May; most deaths attributed to Israeli military fire at aid distribution sites.
  • International aid agencies accuse Israel of “weaponizing” humanitarian aid.
  • Famine is “unfolding” across Gaza.

4. Tensions in Israel-Palestine:

[15:50 – 17:18]

• Controversy:
  • Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir released a provocative video taunting imprisoned Palestinian leader Marwan Barghouti.
  • Barghouti, possibly Palestine’s most popular leader, appears “aged and gaunt” after decades in jail.

5. Lebanon: Disarming Hezbollah and Threats of Civil War

[17:18 – 19:34]

• Hezbollah’s Warning:

  • Deputy leader Naim Qasim warned the government against forced disarmament, implying risk of civil conflict. [17:04]
  • Context: Lebanese government recently voted to disarm Hezbollah; international donors and Israel pressure for action, linking it to aid and security.

• Analysis (Mike Thompson):

  • Government’s capacity to disarm Hezbollah is highly doubtful; Lebanese Army is outmatched, and risk of civil war looms.

6. Africa’s True Size: The Map Campaign

[19:34 – 21:16]

• African Union is pushing for global adoption of maps properly reflecting Africa’s true scale, challenging the outdated and Eurocentric Mercator projection.
• “Greenland… looks similar to the size of Africa. In reality, it’s 14 times smaller.” [20:00]
• Misconceptions fostered by map distortion are called “the world’s longest misinformation campaign” by Moki Makura, Africa No Filter.

7. Global Science: Lucy the Fossil on Tour

[21:16 – 24:27]

• Lucy – The 3.2 Million-Year-Old Fossil:

  • Provides crucial insights into human evolution; normally kept in a secure vault in Ethiopia.
  • Embarked on a rare world tour—this time to Prague—dividing opinion among experts and the public about the risks and merits.

• Expert Insight:

  “She’s a very crucial point within our hominid ancestors… a pivotal point between when we were becoming more humanlike.”
  — Pete Moore, archaeologist [22:20]

• Public Reaction:

  • Ethiopians have mixed feelings—pride in sharing heritage versus fear of damage.

8. Photographer Platon on Capturing Putin & Trump

[24:27 – 28:51]

• On Putin:

  “I said to him… did you ever listen to the Beatles? And… he orders the two translators and all his political advisors out of the room immediately… Then Putin turns to me, and in perfect English, he said, ‘I love the Beatles.’” [25:13]

  • Putin refused to say “Back in the USSR” was his favorite song, stating instead, “My favorite song is Yesterday—think about it.” Suggesting a longing for power from the Soviet era.

• On Trump:

  “He said, each song [in his playlist] tells a story, our story… Suddenly, a song comes on while I’m taking his picture, and it’s by Elvis… Suspicious Minds. And the words to that are just as interesting to me as the words of Yesterday to Putin.” [28:00]

  • Platon reflects on leaders’ use of music to send subtle messages about their worldview and persona.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Trump on Putin:

  “He’s a smart guy… we get along. There’s good respect… I think, you know, something’s going to come of it.” [03:37]

• Gary O'Donoghue (BBC on the Summit):

  “No deal until there’s a deal… nothing particularly concrete to point to.” [05:41]

• Putin (on U.S.-Russia proximity):

  “It only makes sense that we’ve met here because our countries, though separated by the oceans, are close neighbors.” [04:43]

• Ukrainian Resident (on ongoing violence):

  “They’re still bombing us.” [07:11]

• Jim Sanborn (Kryptos artist):

  “I came up with a code that seems to have baffled for decades.” [10:22]

• Hezbollah’s Warning:

  “The Lebanese government bears responsibility for any internal implosion and any destruction of Lebanon.” [17:04]

• Platon (photographer, on Putin’s favorite song):

  “He said, ‘My favorite song is Yesterday. Think about it.’” [26:09]

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Timeline of Important Segments

• 01:38 — Headline summary of episode
• 02:25 – 09:25 — Trump-Putin Alaska summit coverage, analysis, reactions from Ukraine
• 09:25 – 14:48 — CIA’s Kryptos puzzle, interview with artist Jim Sanborn
• 15:00 – 15:50 — Gaza death toll and famine worsening
• 15:50 – 17:18 — Israel-Palestine: Ben-Gvir’s video with Barghouti; unrest in Israeli prisons
• 17:18 – 19:34 — Lebanon: Hezbollah and risk of civil conflict, international pressure
• 19:34 – 21:16 — Africa’s real size: AU’s cartography campaign
• 21:16 – 24:27 — Science: Lucy the fossil on tour
• 24:27 – 28:51 — Platon’s reminiscences on photographing Putin & Trump

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Episode Tone

Consistently objective, somber, and informed, with the BBC’s signature global perspective and measured delivery. Personal insights, like Platon’s stories or Jim Sanborn’s humor, add warmth and depth to the otherwise hard news focus.

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Summary Takeaway

The Trump-Putin Alaska summit symbolizes the enduring complexity of the Ukraine war: high-level talks, diplomatic ceremony, but no cessation of violence for those affected. Elsewhere, the episode highlights global struggles for justice, heritage, and dignity—from humanitarian crises to the fight for fair representation and the mysteries hidden in public monuments.

Transcript

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

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[Jackie Leonard]

This is the global news podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Jackie Leonard and in the early hours of Saturday 16th August, these are our main stories. Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin have ended their much anticipated talks on Ukraine, saying they've been held in an atmosphere of mutual respect and and progress had been made. There was no mention of any ceasefire agreement and the African Union has backed a campaign to persuade governments and international organizations to adopt a map of the world which more accurately represents Africa's real size. Also in this podcast I have to.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

Say that I know nothing about mathematics whatsoever, but I came up with a code that seems to have baffled for decades.

[Jackie Leonard]

Are you a code breaker who wants to crack the CIA's infamous Kryptos puzzle? Its secret key is up for sale as we record this podcast. The US President Donald Trump and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin have just finished holding talks in Alaska on the war in Ukraine, Mr. Trump arrived first on board Air Force One at the Elmendorf Air Force Base in anchorage, the largest U.S. military installation in Alaska and a Cold War facility for surveillance of the former Soviet Union. The US President then greeted Mr. Putin a short time later when he disembarked from his own plane. Interestingly, Mr. Putin opted to ride with Mr. Trump in his car, the Beast, rather than the Russian limousine that had also been flown in. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelensky, who was not invited to the summit, said his country was counting on America. So at stake is the future of Russia's war in Ukraine. Ukraine and perhaps much more. This is what Mr. Trump had to say about Mr. Putin on board Air Force One as he flew into Alaska.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

He's a smart guy, been doing it for a long time, but so have I. Been doing it for a long time. And here we are, we're president. That was much more difficult than what I'm doing today, believe me. So we get along. There's a good respect level on both sides, and I think, you know, something's going to come of it. I noticed he's bringing a lot of business, business people from Russia, and that's good. I like that, because they want to do business, but they're not doing business until we get the war settlement.

[Jackie Leonard]

The world's media have gathered for the summit. Inside the base, the two presidents posed for pictures before officials ushered reporters out of the room.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Press. Thank you, Press. Thank you, Press.

[Jackie Leonard]

Since we came into the podcast studio, talks between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin in Alaska have concluded. The two men met for more than two and a half hours, each accompanied by senior officials. Then there was a news conference. Behind a podium was a large caption, pursuing peace. First to speak through an interpreter was the Russian President.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

Mr. President, ladies and gentlemen, our negotiations have been held in a constructive atmosphere of mutual respect. We have very thorough negotiations that were quite useful. I would like to thank, once again my American counterpart for the proposal to travel out here to Alaska. It only makes sense that we've met here because our countries, though separated by the oceans, are close neighbors.

[Jackie Leonard]

President Trump had this to say.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

I'm going to start making a few phone calls and tell them what happened. But we had an extremely productive meeting and many points were agreed to. There are just a very few that are left. Some are not that significant. One is probably the most significant. But we have a very good chance of getting there. We didn't get there, but we Have a very good chance of getting there.

[Jackie Leonard]

Sumi Somaskander got this assessment from our correspondent Gary o'. Donoghue.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

Not a lot really to get your teeth into here, is there? I mean, that's an extraordinary press conference as President Trump's concern. I mean, he never does them that short, right? He never does. He never says that little. Certainly that unwillingness to take any questions is an indication either they think there's some sensitive progress being made, that they don't want to scupper, or that there really isn't anything to say. And as you mentioned in your introduction, you know, no deal until there's a deal. Maybe another meeting in Moscow, said Vladimir Putin in English. Uncharacteristic for him as well. Trump saying, that might get me some heat. Well, we'll see. I mean, I suppose what you can take from this is that they neither of them kind of walked away, as Donald Trump had indicated he might if things weren't looking good in the first few minutes. It went off two and a half hours, not entirely sure what happened to the lunch they were meant to have, but nothing particularly concrete to point to. And of course, if you're in Ukraine and if you're living in the urban areas, in Kyiv, elsewhere, Sumi and Haki, all these places, you're going to think, well, what does it mean for me tonight? What does it mean in terms of the missile attacks, the drone attacks? What does it mean on the front line? And I think that's something that will be really important in the next few days, because Donald Trump, don't forget, has always said, I get great words from Vladimir Putin on the phone. We have nice conversations and then he goes away and bombs civilian areas.

[Jackie Leonard]

Indeed.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

Gary, we just a few minutes ago spoke to a Ukrainian voice who was speaking to us with a torch because he didn't have electricity. He said at the end of the interview, they're still bombing us. Something to keep in mind.

[Jackie Leonard]

What about the choreography of it, seeing.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

President Putin speak first? President Trump speak very briefly. Yeah. I mean, it's extraordinary. I mean, it was difficult to follow precisely in many ways, even by English translation, what Vladimir Putin was really to trying driving at. The words were pretty warm. I thought there was an interesting kind of hands off our problem Europe type message in there as well. You know, President Trump at the same time wanting Europe to take more responsibility. Putin doesn't like the sound of that very much, does he? Europe is part of the problem as far as he's concerned. And then really this kind of, you know, this lack of any kind of concrete mention of a ceasefire, let alone a piece that banner we saw said, you know, pursuing peace, didn't it? We didn't hear a word about peace in that press conference.

[Jackie Leonard]

Meanwhile, the conflict in Ukraine continues. Speaking in his evening address, President Zelensky said Ukraine needed to be involved in discussions to secure a lasting peace.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

Russia must end the war which it started and which has dragged on for years. A stop to the killings is necessary. A meeting of leaders is necessary, at least Ukraine, America and the Russian side. This is the format that can provide possible effective solutions for a sense of.

[Jackie Leonard]

The mood in Ukraine. Jonathan Beale sent this report from Kyiv.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

There is still little hope of a ceasefire anytime soon. Even President Trump has acknowledged that both Russia and Ukraine carried out long range strikes on the ground. Ukraine has sent more reinforcements to the east after small groups of Russian troops penetrated its defensive lines earlier in the week. Ukraine says the situation has now been stabilized. But President Zelensky said Russia was suffering significant losses as it tried to advance. He said it was an attempt to secure more favorable political positions ahead of the Alaska talks. In other words, to suggest Russia's winning.

[Jackie Leonard]

Jonathan Beale in Ukraine. Now onto other stories. We'll delve into one of the biggest secrets held in the headquarters of the Central Intelligence Agency, or CIA in Langley, Virginia. Now, it's not a dodgy file held in a basement. It's actually the first thing you see as you approach the building. It's called the Kryptos sculpture, a large copper sculpture with four panels, each with a secret code carved into it in letters. It's open to the public. Anyone can try to crack them, but only three have been solved. The fourth remains a mystery, even though some of America's finest code breakers walk past the sculpture every day. Now, the man who made the sculpture and invented the secret codes wants to sell the solution to the fourth panel, known as K4, and he's putting it up for auction so it can be preserved and possibly outlive him. The sculptor Jim Sanborn told Rebecca Kesby about his piece, which he made in 1990.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

Before I say why, I have to say that I know nothing about mathematics whatsoever. But I came up with a code that seems to have baffled for decades. When I presented it to the panel at CIA, I told them, well, I know that you guys have to keep secrets all your lives. And with this sculpture that I'm presenting, I'm going to be in the same boat.

[Jackie Leonard]

And indeed you are. And I do wonder whether you're more.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

Irritated that nobody's Cracked it yet, or those people walking past it are more irritated that they can't do it. Early days, there were picnic tables surrounding it with many individuals with pen and paper trying to figure it out. So they were kind of using it at that time as a teaching tool. I'm quite pleased, actually, that it is moving along the way it is. I had always hoped when I first designed it that it would unravel itself, you know, like a ball of string, slowly over time. It's worked very well. How have you kept this secret your whole life?

[Jackie Leonard]

Over the past 35 years, have you.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

Ever been tempted to maybe tell somebody.

[Jackie Leonard]

A partner, a sibling, a child of yours?

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

Well, not that long ago, I did have to tell my wife just in case I keeled over at some point. You try to forget it all the time. And so I've done everything I can to ignore it and just to forget about it because I didn't want to under, you know, under pressure, under torture, divulge it. And so there it is.

[Jackie Leonard]

So what do you hope the winning bidder will do with the solution to the code?

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

Keep it as you have, or are you worried that maybe they'll sell it for even more money later down the road? There's always that risk. But I do really hope that they will keep the code secure and be in a position to maintain it in some way. Now, our listeners are very clever, and.

[Jackie Leonard]

Some of them may be code breakers. So I wonder if you can maybe.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

Give us a bit of a clue with the.

[Jackie Leonard]

The first three panels.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

The.

[Jackie Leonard]

The codes have been cracked. I wonder if you can tell us.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

About that, because that may give a clue as to what's on the fourth one. Once again, I have to think real hard to figure out what is on the first three panels. I wrote the plain text while I was driving in a rental lorry, as you say, from Arizona with a petrified tree in it, and driving very slowly. And during those long hours, I came up with the first three panels, actually, all of them. The first one I know I just wrote, I guess, something I would call my own kind of sort of poetry. The second panel is a quote from. I think it's the second. Or is it the third? Well, anyway, one of those two. It's a quote from Howard Carter's journal. That's the third. Thank you very much. I need help. You see, we're going to just. Yeah. So I can just give you a tip. So you can go into the K2 is the location, isn't it, of the CIA. The latitude, longitude. Yeah, so K2 is, is, you know, it says somewhere that it's buried underground and only WW knows. And of course WW is William Webster who just recently. And it lasts few days passed. It's a great old age of 101. So a lot of knowledge might have gone with him. And where is the envelope that I gave to WW at the dedication ceremony that possibly had the code in it? Of course now I don't remember whether I gave him the whole code or just gave him part of it or told him that I gave the whole thing when in fact I didn't. But you know, this is tradecraft, Jim. That's such a tease.

[Jackie Leonard]

I feel like we're getting an exclusive.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

There could be. The excitement of discovery is important to me and Kryptos has embodied that in several ways. First, you know, K1 was discovered, then K2 is discovered, K3. It's that sense of discovery that excites me and it's fabulous. Okay.

[Jackie Leonard]

You've missed one out though, Jim. K4. What.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

What was the meaning of that one? Yeah, well, you know, I just. It slips my mind.

[Jackie Leonard]

You're not going to fall for it. I thought I was being clever. The sculptor Jim Sanborn. Still to come, Lucy, our 3.2 million year old ancestor on tour.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

Lucy's remains are very rare and the consequences of any damage is therefore much more significant.

[Jackie Leonard]

The United nations says more than 1700 people have been killed while seeking aid in Gaza since late May. The UN says nearly a thousand of those who died was shot while queuing for food at distribution sites run by the Israeli and U. S backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. Amir Nada reports from Jerusalem.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

The grim figures record an average of 22 Palestinians being killed every day while trying to find food. The UN said the Israeli military was responsible for the majority of the killings, corroborating regular accounts of eyewitnesses and Gazan medics. There was no immediate comment from Israel, but it has repeatedly said its troops fire only warning shots. On Wednesday, over 100 of the world's leading aid organizations organizations accused Israel of continuing to block their work and weaponize aid. A UN backed food monitor has said that widespread famine is unfolding in Gaza.

[Jackie Leonard]

Emir Nada Israel's far right National Security Minister Itamar Ben GVIR has published a video showing him taunting the most high profile Palestinian prisoner, Marwan Barghouti. In the short clip, Mr. Ben Gvir and two other people can be seen surrounding Mr. Barghouti in a corner of his prison cell. The Palestinian Authority has condemned the confront as an unprecedented provocation from Jerusalem. Here's YOLAN Now. The 13 second long video clip is the first time that Marwan Barghouti has been seen publicly in years. He appears aged and gaunt. Itamar Ben gvir, who's Israel's national security minister, tells him, whoever messes with the people of Israel, we will obliterate them. Marwan Barghouti, who's 66, was jailed more than 20 years ago, convicted of planning attacks that led to five civilians being killed. Opinion polls have consistently indicated that he remains the most popular Palestinian leader. Yoland. Now in Lebanon, the leader of Hezbollah has warned the government against a push to disarm the group. In a televised speech, Naim Qasim said that such a move could lead to internal conflict and perhaps even civil war.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

The Lebanese government bears full responsibility for any strife that may occur. We don't want it, but there are those who work for it. The Lebanese government bears responsibility for any internal implosion and any destruction of Lebanon.

[Jackie Leonard]

The warning came a day after a senior official from Iran was in Lebanon to consult with Hezbollah, which it backs. That, in turn followed a vote by the Lebanese government to disarm Hezbollah by the end of the year. So how significant is this warning from Hezbollah? Our Middle east regional editor is Mike Thompson.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

It's pretty much a call to arms, or at least that is how it could be read and I think is being read by the Lebanese government. The prime minister has called it intimidation. That is unacceptable. A veiled threat of civil war. Now, this, of course, is a country that only came out of the war with Israel last November when there was a ceasefire agreed and has a history going back a long way of. Of warfare and indeed an impoverished economy. So very serious.

[Jackie Leonard]

So how badly damaged was Hezbollah by last year's war with Israel? And is the government of Lebanon in any position to tackle it, to disarm it?

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

Well, no one's totally sure just how much damage was done to Hezbollah. We know, of course, that its leaders, all of its top leaders, were killed in this pager exploit of Israel's. And of course, a large amount of its arsenal was also destroyed and its missile sites. But it did claim to have around 100,000 fighters, not verified, I might say, before that war. So it still must have, you'd think, a lot of fighters. But of course it's going to take the Lebanese Army. If it did come to force, it's going to have to have the power to force disarmament on it. And of course, that would be a tricky thing. The Lebanese army have 73,000 soldiers, but even so, it would be a very, very difficult and dangerous job.

[Jackie Leonard]

And how much pressure is the Lebanese government under to disarm the group?

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

Well, a lot of pressure. Israel has said it will carry on attacking Lebanon or at least attacking Hezbollah military targets in Lebanon for as long as the group isn't disarmed. And the US has said if you want money, which it badly needs to develop the country further to rebuild it, really, then you're going to have to have Hezbollah disarmed. So there's a lot of pressure on there.

[Jackie Leonard]

That was Mike Thompson. The African Union has backed a campaign to persuade governments and international organisations to adopt a map of the world which more accurately represents Africa's real size. The organisation, which has more than 50 member states, says commonly used maps foster an impression that the continent is marginal. Tyler Dunn reports.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

The world map that we're used to seeing on the Internet, classroom walls and in many atlases does a dismal job of representing the true size of the continents. It's called the Mercator Projection, and it was designed in the 16th century to aid navigation. But it also stretches land masses near the Earth's poles. Greenland, for example, looks similar to the size of Africa. In reality, it's 14 times smaller. The distortion has angered some African leaders, who say it makes their continent seem less important. The executive director of the advocacy group Africa no Filter, Moki Makura, described it as the world's longest misinformation campaign. Africa has six different time zones. It's huge. Thirty countries can fit into it. Japan, India, China, most of Europe, France, Germany, Italy. But yet when you look at it, it looks much smaller than it is, and I think that's problematic. The status quo has been challenged in the past. In 1979, an Australian student called Stuart MacArthur turned the world map on its head, literally. MacArthur's universal corrective map puts the southern hemisphere top, with Australia near the centre. The map's description calls it a first step in elevating Australia from the gloomy depths of anonymity, never again to suffer the perpetual onslaught of down under jokes.

[Jackie Leonard]

Tyler Dunn. How old is too old to travel across the world? 80s, 90s? Well, how does 3.2 million years sound? That's how old Lucy, an Ethiopian fossil of a human ancestor, is. Lucy is one of the most significant finds in the field of paleoanthropology, offering profound insights into the origins and evolution of early human ancestors. Unearthed in 1974 in Ethiopia, Lucy's remains have played A pivotal role in the shaping of our understanding of bipedalism, the evolution of the human brain and the developments of modern humans. And for just the second time ever, the Lucy fossil has left her home country. But not everyone thinks it's a good idea. Will Chalk has the story.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

Museum Y Silence in the National Museum of Ethiopia as people inspect Lucy. Except they're not actually looking at Lucy. She's so fragile that only a replica is on display. The real Lucy is usually kept in a safe vault to keep her from getting damaged. So why is she so precious? Pete Moore is an archaeologist at the University of Reading in the uk. She's a very crucial point within our hominid ancestors in that she represents a pivotal point between when we were becoming more human like from our original, more ape like appearances. Only around a meter tall and covered in hair with a wide flap face, there is still something humanish about what scientists think Lucy would have looked like. Now, of course, she is a fragile fossilized set of bones. But fragile or not, it's the real Lucy that's going on a two month tour to the National Museum in Prague. And it's not without its risks. Lucy's remains are over 3 million years old. They are very rare and the consequences of any damage is therefore much more significant. Beyond breakages and the natural sort of wear and tear you might expect, we also have to consider the risks of just handling them in the first place. Since her discovery in an Ancient Lake in 1974, Lucy has only left Ethiopia once for a tour of the United States. But Yohannes Hale Selassie from the Institute of Human Origin at Arizona State University thinks she needs to travel. She just doesn't belong to Ethiopia only she belongs to the whole world. And she's uniting people. She is giving people the opportunity to see her. She is becoming like a diplomat, creating connections between people, connections between governments. And this is really positive and I think it should be encouraged. But the tourists who've come to see her replica in Addis Ababa are split.

[Jackie Leonard]

This is part of everybody's history. We all come stem from this in the travel maybe could happen break or.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

So it's better to stay here and the people come. This trip away will likely seem a long time for Lucy's caretakers in Ethiopia. But for Lucy herself, what's two months when you've been on the planet for 3 million years?

[Jackie Leonard]

That was Will Chalk. Now back to our main story and whatever else follows the talks in Alaska, we can be sure of one thing. There are thousands and thousands of photos of Mr. Trump and Mr. Putin. One of the few people to have been close to both men is the Greek British photographer Platon. He photographed them for time front covers. Mr. Putin in 2007. Mr. Trump, at the end of last year, when Sean Lay spoke to Platon, he explained how he'd broken the ice with Vladimir Putin.

[Jim Sanborn / Platon / Various Interviewees]

The experience of dealing with Putin in was, for me, very intimidating. The build up, I was led in to this building in the middle of a dark, bleak gothic forest, which was his private dasher just outside Moscow. And, you know, the security was off the charts. It was like a Cold War movie that we may have seen, you know, but when I actually met him, he comes in with a giant entourage, two translators, group of political advisors, and definitely a group of bodyguards. And I said to him, Mr. President, before I try to capture this moment in history, I have a question I'd like to ask you. I said, I was brought up by my parents listening to the music of the Beatles, and I would like to know if you ever listened to the Beatles. And two translators translate in his ear. There's some confusing looks amongst the entourage, and his mood seems to drop a little. And he orders the two translators and all his political advisors out of the room immediately. The bodyguards stay. And then Putin turns to me, and in perfect English, he said, I love the Beatles. I said, oh, my goodness, I didn't know you spoke English. He said, I speak perfect English. So I said, okay, in that case, who's your favorite Beatle? And he said, paul. And then I said, okay, what's your favorite song? And this is where I tempted fate. And I said, is it back in the ussr? And he did not like that very much at all. And then he said, no, my favorite song is Yesterday. Think about it. And I thought about it, and I realized I think I'm being sent a subliminal message about the old days of power and authority of the Soviet Union through a Paul McCartney song. And if you listen to the words, I think it tells Putin's story perfectly. On. On how he feels right now. Let's talk about your photograph of Donald Trump just last year. What was it like photographing him? I'd worked with him 22 years before, and this time was under very different circumstances. A few days after his historic election victory, I was invited to Mar a Lago, which is one of the most opulent places I've ever seen in my life. He's literally forming his cabinet around us that day, and he was called away on a meeting about tariffs. So I had to wait. And as I waited, his team played me music. And I waited for hours. And the music went on for hours. And I was just thinking, who chose all these songs? They're all pop songs. They're all songs we all grew up with. And I thought, this very strange music to be playing me while I'm waiting for the President. Eventually, he walks in. I said to him, Mr. President, I'd like to ask you about the music I've been listening to. And he said, oh, that's my personal playlist. I asked them to play it for you. So I said, well, there's a lot, a long playlist, Mr. President. I've been here for four or five hours. No repeat. He said, There's 2,000 songs on it. So I said, well, what made you choose all those songs? And he said, each song tells a story, our story. Now, the songs are very interesting. The songs were abba, the Winner Takes It All, Sinead o', Connor, nothing compares to you. But suddenly a song comes on while I'm taking his picture, and it's by Elvis, and the song is Suspicious Minds. And the words to that of just as interesting to me as the words of yesterday to Putin. If Putin is focusing on the words of yesterday as a subliminal message to us, then I think Trump is doing the same.

[Jackie Leonard]

The renowned portrait photographer Platon. And that's it from us for now. There will be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later. If you'd like to comment on this edition or the topics covered in it, please send us an email. The address is globalpodcastbc.co.uk. you can also find us on X@BBC World Service. Just use the hashtag globalnewspod. This edition was mixed by Xavi Hula Kourouche. The producers were Liam McSheffrey and Peter Hyatt. Our editors, Karen Martin. I'm Jackie Leonard and until next time, goodbye.