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Global News Podcast
Trump hints at possible Greenland deal at Davos
00:27:53
US president and European leaders head for showdown at Swiss ski resort
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- [00:00]
Pete Ross
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- [00:34]
Celia Hatton
If you're an H Vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Celia Hatton and in the early hours of Wednesday, January 21, these are our main stories. President Trump heads to the World Economic Forum in Davos in Sweden, Switzerland, saying he has a plan for Greenland that will make everyone happy. Snapchat's parent company settles a lawsuit with a 19 year old woman who said she'd become addicted to the social media site. Also in this podcast, it is evil.
- [01:38]
Pete Ross
They don't think about the pollution that.
- [01:41]
Rosamund Young
Has destroyed completely the livelihoods of the people.
- [01:45]
Celia Hatton
Nigeria's plan to revive oil drilling sparks outrage because of previous environmental damage. We start with President Trump. He's marked a year since returning to office and to do so he met White House journalists and gave a long and sometimes meandering speech touching on immigration, the stock market and the failings of the state of Somalia. He even spoke about how he could have been a professional baseball player. When reporters finally got to ask him questions, he was quizzed about his desire to take over Greenland, and in response he appeared to use softer language than in previous days. In answer to a question by the BBC's North America editor, Sarah Smith, he said he was going to work something out that would make NATO happy.
- [02:39]
Sarah Smith
If a consequence of your determination to take control of Greenland is the ultimate breakup of the NATO alliance, is that a price you're willing to pay?
- [02:49]
Pete Ross
You mean the breakup of. It's very interesting. So I think something's going to happen that's going to Be very good for everybody. Nobody has done more for NATO than I have. As I said before, in every way. Getting them to go up to 5% of GDP was something that nobody thought was possible. And pay at 2%. They weren't paying at 5%. They are paying and they're buying a lot of things from us and they're giving them, I guess, to Ukraine. That's up to them. But they're giving them to whoever they're giving them to. But they're buying a lot. I think that we will work something out where NATO is going to be very happy and where we're going to be very happy. But we need it for security purposes. We need it for national security and even world security. It's very important. How about it?
- [03:38]
Celia Hatton
After the news conference, Mr. Trump boarded a plane to fly to Davos in Switzerland to attend the World Economic Forum, where he's expected to face significant opposition to his plan for Greenland. Well, just before we recorded this podcast, Mr. Trump's plane had to turn around because of a minor electrical fault. He was due to change to another aircraft. As I've said, when he gets there, he'll face questions on Greenland. I asked Sarah Smith what she thought of President Trump's latest comments on that subject.
- [04:11]
Sarah Smith
He was telling us that there is a compromise to be found here that would make everybody very happy and that's going to work out well for everyone. Whilst at the same time it's extremely difficult to see what that could be. He was giving us no hint of it. He was asked during the press conference how far he is prepared to go over Greenland. And to that he just said, you'll find out. So it's difficult to know whether he is going to arrive in Davos, where he says he has lots of meetings lined up with world leaders specifically to talk about the Greenland issue, whether he is going to surprise us all with a deal that really would keep everybody happy, or whether what he means is he won't be happy unless he has complete control of Greenland and he intends to persuade the rest of the world of the rightness of his position and then tell them that they're all very happy as a result of that.
- [04:57]
Celia Hatton
I mean, some have described today's speech as a warm up act before the President encounters European leaders at the World Economic Forum. World leaders, including France's Emmanuel Macron and Canada's Mark Carney, have expressed some strong opposition to Mr. Trump's recent actions. Today, let's hear what Mr. Carney had to say.
- [05:17]
Grainger Advertiser
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- [05:44]
Celia Hatton
Sarah, there's this sense that the US President is seeking to step outside the rules based order. Is he really doing this, though, or is this just part of an overall strategy to make maximalist demands in order to get what he wants?
- [05:59]
Sarah Smith
Well, that is something that Donald Trump has a history of asking for the world and then settling for something a bit less. And of course, it's a traditional way of doing a real estate deal in New York, back from his days as a property developer. But on this one, of course, the stakes are far higher and it's much more difficult to see where a compromise lies because Donald Trump already has the ability to station as many military personnel on Greenland as he wants as a result of existing treaties. And he has said again and again that's not good enough, that he needs to own the territory, that it is psychologically important for him to have that ownership of it, and that you don't defend something in which you have a lease the same way you would defend it if you own it. And I don't know if he realizes quite what a head of steam he is going to meet in Davos when he gets there.
- [06:45]
Celia Hatton
Just reflecting a little bit more on today's encounter with journalists. He was also a little bit defensive, it seemed at times when asked about the state of the U.S. economy.
- [06:56]
Sarah Smith
Yes, he insists it's hotter than ever before, that the stock market has reached record highs. But he's still faced with questions about the cost of living and about why Americans don't feel better off since he took office. And that's something voters are likely to blame him for now rather than his predecessor, Joe Biden. I mean, it was interesting to see him on a day which marks one of only four years he has in office. Of course, it's been a dizzying 12 months and we have three more years of this to go.
- [07:24]
Celia Hatton
Well, as you say, it's been a dizzying year for, for everyone covering the White House, the Trump administration. Are you getting a of sense, sense now, Sarah, of where this administration is going, though, and who the key players really are?
- [07:40]
Sarah Smith
I think we certainly know who the key players really are. And that is, number one, of course, the president. Very, very much so. Number one what he says goes, the decisions he makes are the ones that are enacted. He really is in charge of the direction of this administration. He feels much more empowered this time, time round, I think, because he has surrounded himself by cabinet members and by staff members who will do what he wants, who are not fighting him over his agenda, but rather are enthusiastically enacting the policies that he decides upon.
- [08:11]
Celia Hatton
Our North America editor, Sarah Smith. Snapchat's parent company, Snap, has settled a social media addiction lawsuit just days before a landmark case against a number of tech giants is due to begin in Los Angeles. No settlement's been reached in the same case against Instagram's parent meta, ByteDance's tick tock and Alphabet's YouTube. Our North America technology correspondent is Lily Jamali.
- [08:38]
Lily Jamali
This is a case brought by a 19 year old woman identified by the initials KGM. She had been alleging that the algorithmic design, the way these platforms actually design what, you know, dictates the stuff that we all see, left her addicted and affected her mental health. So she was suing not just Snapchat, but also TikTok and those other companies that you mentioned, YouTube and Meta. In this case, what we saw today was a settlement announced at a hearing today with Snap. But those other three cases remain active. So those other three defendants will still have to defend themselves in court starting next week at trial, where we will see Mark Zuckerberg, the boss over at Meta, take the stand unless his company ends up following Snap and settling as well.
- [09:30]
Celia Hatton
Fascinating. I mean, do we know what, what Mark Zuckerberg or other tech CEOs are expected to argue?
- [09:37]
Lily Jamali
Well, you know, we have a sense from some of the statements that they have made. For example, at congressional hearings, generally, you know, they're very careful not to take responsibility or, you know, admit that they were aware of some of the addictive nature of these platforms. You know, some of the congressional hearings have been, I would call them fireworks, for lack of a better term. They've been incendiary because you have lawmakers in the U.S. senate, for example, demanding that people like Mark Zuckerberg apologize in front of parents who were at these hearings. I don't think we're gonna see that kind of showmanship. This is a trial that is really meant to get down to brass tacks, to adjudicate. The main legal argument, which really hinges on this, on this legal provision from back in 1996. The tech companies have long said that that provision protects them from what users post to their platforms. You know, they're the public square, not responsible for what people say there, but this case and a couple of other ones that we're following really will put that legal provision to the test. Because what they are saying is it's not about what users say. It's about the way that the companies design their platforms to push certain content to us, to hit us with notifications, to bring us back to the platforms when we leave and to sort of design that infinite scroll design where just keeps us there at infinitum.
- [11:07]
Sarah Smith
Hmm.
- [11:07]
Celia Hatton
And just briefly, what's at stake here? What could be the ramifications if the tech companies lose?
- [11:15]
Lily Jamali
I think the biggest thing is that legal provision potentially no longer having the same power that that it once gave to the companies. It's been a legal shield. It has kept so many cases out of court. When you move from saying that it's the user's fault to saying it's the company's fault in their design choices, that could really change the legal game for these companies. So they're very concerned and frankly, I think a lot of observers wouldn't be surprised if some other companies follow suit and make settlements like what we saw today.
- [11:48]
Celia Hatton
Lilly Jamali in San Francisco. To Syria now. The government there has announced a fresh ceasefire with the Kurdish led Syrian Democratic Forces, the sdf, in the country's northeast. The authorities say the four day truce was reached after an understanding had been agreed on the future of the whole Kurdish majority region. In earlier clashes, the Syrian army advanced and seized huge stretches of land. Until now, the SDF has been responsible for securing prisons and camps where thousands of suspected Islamic State fighters and their families are being held. The SDF says its forces have withdrawn from one camp called Al Hol. The Syrian army accuses the SDF of leaving the camp unguarded and says it's trying to secure the area. This report from our senior international correspondent, Orla Guerin.
- [12:47]
Orla Guerin
Images that may cause concern in Syria and far beyond. Amid fears that an old enemy could exploit fresh turmoil, these pictures posted on social media purport to show chaos around Al hall camp. It holds around 25,000 family members of suspected IS fighters. The video is unverified. We can't be sure if anyone has escaped Al Hall. This was the scene when we filmed there in October. Extremism and desolation camp officials said children were being raised to be so called cubs of the caliphate. The detainees banging pots to warn of our arrival. We've been given an armed escort because this area is dangerous. What's certain is that these Syrian Kurdish forces, the SDF who kept the Camp secure are gone. Damascus claiming that paved the way for detainees to escape. About an hour away, empty cells in Al Shadada prison and the uniforms left behind by suspected IS fighters as they fled. The government says its troops are now in charge here and have recaptured 81 prisoners, leaving about 40 still on the run. The Kurds claim far greater numbers escape. And how secure are other IS prisons, including the largest, Al Sanaa. The detainees we filmed here are suspected of being with the Islamic State group until its last stand. For now, there are no reports of incidents at Al Sanaa. Syrian government forces have been sweeping forward, forcing the cards to retreat. So far a show of strength for Damascus. But there are risks this internal conflict could escalate. Risks too, that is and its sleeper cells will benefit.
- [15:09]
Celia Hatton
Our senior international correspondent Orla Guerin to Iran now. Several thousand people are thought to have been killed by the Iranian security forces in recent anti government protests. Many relatives have found it difficult to identify their loved ones who died. Photos leaked to BBC Verify show the faces of hundreds of people killed in the violent crackdown. The images were displayed in a south Tehran mortuary and were one of the few ways to identify the dead. Merlin Thomas reports. Hundreds of photos leaked to BBCVerify reveal the bloodied, swollen and bruised faces of at least 326 victims, including 18 women. We've been told that there was chaos inside the mortuary. Family members and friends were huddled around a screen trying to identify their loved ones from hundreds of images of the dead. Many photos showed unzipped body bags with papers laid close to their faces, identifying them by their name, ID number or date of death. One man's face is so swollen his eyes were barely visible. Another man still has a breathing tube in his mouth, suggesting he died after receiving medical treatment. The slideshow is said to have lasted for hours, with the injuries of many victims so severe that the people couldn't be identified. Labels on more than 100 victims showed the date they died as 9 January, one of the deadliest nights for protesters in Tehran so far. These leaked photos provide a small snapshot of the thousands believed to have been killed at the hands of the Iranian state. Merlin Thomas still to come in this.
- [16:57]
Rosamund Young
Podcast, I had one cow once come to the house to remind me that I hadn't given her the food I normally gave her at tea time because I'd been distracted by some visitors. She worked out how to come and find me, which I thought was extraordinary.
- [17:12]
Celia Hatton
We hear about how cows might be more intelligent than anyone previously thought, and a robotic hand that might be able to outperform its human counterpart.
- [17:29]
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- [17:59]
Celia Hatton
If you're an H Vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
- [18:30]
Grainger Advertiser
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- [19:34]
Celia Hatton
This is the global news podcast it's been more than 30 years since the Nigerian environmental activist Ken Saro Wiwa and eight of his colleagues, known as the Ogoni Nine, were convicted of murder. They were then hanged by the military regime which ruled Nigeria at the time. Many believe the Ogoni Nine were punished for leading protests against the operations of oil multinationals, particularly Shell in Nigeria's Ogoniland. The drilling There stopped in 1993, but the environmental damage there continued. Now the current government is in talks to restart oil drilling in the area with the cleanup ongoing. Decades later, is the community welcoming this new development? Helen Oyibo reports from Ogoniland in Rivers State, Nigeria.
- [20:27]
Helen Oyibo
My father and his eight colleagues didn't commit any crime whatsoever. They weren't treated like criminals who'd actually committed a crime. They were treated like agitators who needed to be gotten rid of. Noss Sarewiwa is the daughter of environmentalist Ken Saro Wiwa, whose hanging in 1995 caused global outrage. Ken was executed along with eight of his colleagues for the alleged murder of four local chiefs. The families of the Oguninan, as they became known, claimed their execution was carried out to silence their activism against Shell's oil pollution. In the Niger Delta, frequent oil spills were causing soil and water contamination, forcing communities to drink toxic water and destroying fishing livelihoods. The protest led to Shell suspending its operations in oguni land by 1993. But 30 years on, the community continues to live with the impact of the oil pollution. Pipelines still run through Oguni Land and risk leaking oil. In 2008, there was a massive oil spill that devastated this community. It lasted for four months. The fishermen couldn't fish, the mangrove was destroyed and the birds and crops went away. The Ogonese have for decades been fighting for a holistic cleanup to happen. But scenes like this from Bodo and communities around shows that much more needs to be done. And although cleanup is currently ongoing, the community says it is slow, inadequate and not a picture of what justice should look like. Shell has always maintained that the extent of the pollution is caused by the scourge of oil theft and illegal refining. We met local farmer Ledisi Nomkia as we talk. She points at the peel sickly leaves at a cassava farm, showing the impact the oil spill has had on their farmlands. The oil in this community that God gave to us was a blessing that.
- [22:33]
Celia Hatton
God bring to us.
- [22:34]
Helen Oyibo
But since this problem happened, I don't know whether I will call this a curse or a blessing. But as the cleanup goes on, the government is in talks to restart drilling in Oguni land, a move that has shocked environmental activist Celeste Nakwobari.
- [22:52]
Rosamund Young
It is evil to even think about that because one, there's an ongoing struggle and when they are permitting these oil companies to go in the name of divestment, they don't think about the pollution that has destroyed completely the livelihoods of the people, you need to declare a state of emergency in some areas.
- [23:14]
Helen Oyibo
For Nigeria's government, though, it's time to move forward. Nuhu Ribado is national security advisor and leading the negotiations for the government.
- [23:24]
Pete Ross
We are not doing that because we want the exploitation to be the main thing. We have done it to do reconciliations. We have done it to give back people their own lives. We've done it because we have problems and we have to find solutions to them.
- [23:40]
Helen Oyibo
A 2011 United Nations Environment Program report concluded that the restoration of Oguni land may take 25 to 30 years. So that's at least a decade from now. And it's feared that without prioritising the cleanup, new oil drilling would not be welcomed here.
- [24:04]
Celia Hatton
Helen Oyibo in Rivers State, Nigeria. In the world of robotics, the human hand is often viewed as the pinnacle of dexterity. Well, now scientists say they've developed a detachable robot hand that could eventually outperform its human counterpart. Researchers in Switzerland say they've created a robotic hand that can crawl using its fingers and pick up more than one object at the same time. Khun Pong Yau is one of the scientists working on the project.
- [24:35]
Grainger Advertiser
Most hand designers or developers, they take the human hand as the ultimate goal of their design. But we sort of look out of the box. So we think human hand is not perfect. Actually, you know, human hands, we have many limitations. We can only perform a limited number of tasks due to the structure, the constraint, the limitation of our hands. So what if we can release those constraints and make robotic hand go beyond the functionality of human hand even more dexterous?
- [25:05]
Celia Hatton
The newsroom's Pete Ross has been checking out the new invention.
- [25:09]
Pete Ross
Our hands are great at picking up one or two things at a time, but if we want to pick up lots of things all at the same time, we are limited. I'll give you the example of, I don't know when you were younger, but I was often asked to clear the dinner table. And you want to get that job done as quickly as possible. And if you think about it, you're picking up bowls, plates, cutlery, maybe the odd bottle, trying to get it all done as quickly as possible. You're not just using your hands. You've probably got a couple of things propped under your arm or you're using leverage with your hands.
- [25:37]
Celia Hatton
Yeah, I get it.
- [25:37]
Pete Ross
And that's because of the design of our hands. And essentially we pick things up using our thumb and our forefingers. That means that we can pick up or grip one or two objects, but if we Want to go beyond that. We're very limited. So the robot, the designers of these robot hands say that what they want to do or what they've done is that every finger is actually a thumb. So it means that they can do multiple things at the same time. And also, as you mentioned a moment ago, it also means the hand can scuttle around under its own power using its fingers, kind of like legs to move around.
- [26:10]
Celia Hatton
It sounds absolutely terrifying, I've got to be honest. But what could this robotic hand be used for?
- [26:17]
Pete Ross
Yeah, I mean, terrifying just sort of conjure images of the Adams family thing, doesn't it? This sort of disembodied hand that kind of moves around essentially. The scientists say that what it can do is perform tasks that humans need two hands for. So that could be something like, you know, as simple as opening a bottle or perh. More practical in industry, using a screwdriver. While, you know, if you think about it, we have to have the screw and the screwdriver in both hands. This would be able to do both in one hand and therefore it can get into sort of constrained little areas, scuttle about in, you know, places like air vents and what have you no news on whether it can help you clear the dinner table though, and bring you a cup of tea afterwards?
- [26:58]
Celia Hatton
Pete Ross. Now, you may have seen on some of the news websites video of a 13 year old Swiss brown cow called Veronica scratching herself with a broomstick, holding it in her mouth. In fact, she's pretty sophisticated, using different ends of the broom for different parts of her body. Veronica's case has been written up in the journal Current Biology, which declares this as the first documented case of flexible tool use in cattle, which has led to a reassessment of cognitive capacities in livestock species. Well put simply, are cows smarter and more capable than we might have thought? My colleague Evan Davis spoke to Rosamund Young, farmer and author of the Secret Life of Cows, to ask for her reaction to Veronica's scratching.
- [27:48]
Rosamund Young
I'm very, very surprised. I'm perfectly sure none of my cows would ever do this, but I can't be certain that, can I? Up until today I would have been sure they wouldn't have done. She looks like a very happy cow from the pictures I've seen on the Internet. And she's obviously a pet, as the owner said. It looks to me as if she might live alone, which I think might be a factor because my cows, if they want some inaccessible part of their body scratched or licked, they can ask one of their friends or Even one of their enemies. But if this cow lives on her own, she's only got her owner. It looks as if he doesn't say that he's taught her to use a brush. I could just about imagine teaching a cow to, if you were patient. But if she's done it of her own volition, then it's. It's rather nice.
- [28:35]
Grainger Advertiser
But your book, Rosamund, the Secret Life of Cows, you find them intelligent, I think.
- [28:41]
Pete Ross
What's the smartest thing you've seen cows do?
- [28:45]
Rosamund Young
I just want to emphasize that I think all cows are individuals and I think everything is an individual. All spiders, all octopuses, everything is just people who are not very observant. My cows aren't particularly clever and some of them are stupid, just like with people. Some are very clever, some are slightly clever, some are very stupid. There's just that much variation. But I don't think you'll ever get a cow using a tool if she was living under stress. But when they have freedom to move around, they have sunshine on their backs and they've got no fear, then it looks very conducive to doing all sorts of things.
- [29:25]
Celia Hatton
Do cows play?
- [29:27]
Pete Ross
Because play shows some degree of cognitive ability, doesn't it?
- [29:32]
Grainger Advertiser
Do cows.
- [29:33]
Pete Ross
Do they have playful activity?
- [29:35]
Rosamund Young
Oh, absolutely. I've seen. I mean, calves play when they're outside. They always run races and do amazing things and sometimes the cows join in and it just looks very joyful. I've seen the whole herd race around the field with no fear, with nothing making them do it, just with seemingly full of the joys of spring. I can only watch and hope that that is the reason. I. One cow once come to the house to remind me that I hadn't given her the food I normally gave her at tea time because I'd been distracted by some visitors. She worked out how to come and find me, which I thought was extraordinary. I keep them so I have to interpret what they want and I might get it wrong, but I do my best. But the more freedom they've got. The fact that there was a hole in the fence and she could get out was to her advantage and she worked out how to come to the house to find me.
- [30:26]
Celia Hatton
Rosamund Young talking to Evan Davis. And that's all from us for now, but there will be a new edition of the Global News podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcastbc.co.uk you can also find us on X@BBC World Service. Use the hashtag globalnewspod. This edition was mixed by Jack Wilven. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Celia Hatton. Until next time.
- [30:57]
Orla Guerin
Goodbye.
- [31:06]
Grainger Advertiser
This is the story of the 1. As the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, she knows the only thing more important than having the right safety gear is having it there when you need it. That's why she she partners with Granger for auto reordering. So her team members can count on her to have cut resistant gloves on hand and each shift can run safely and efficiently. Call 1-800-granger clickgranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.