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Global News Podcast
Trump pushes back at European resistance over Greenland
00:27:08
US President says he will "100%" carry out threat to impose tariffs over Greenland
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- [00:00]
Alex Ritson
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- [00:33]
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- [01:06]
Alex Ritson
This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Alex Ritson and in the early hours of Tuesday 20th January, these are our main stories. Donald Trump says no comment when asked if he could use force to annex Greenland. To the delight of his supporters, we hear from an author who's written extensively on America's history of buying territory at once, plus a special report on the soaring cost of living in the United States. Also in this podcast I was raided.
- [01:42]
Bobby Wine
At my house and I was able to escape, but prior to the raid I got information that there was a plan to attack me at my house and harm me.
- [01:54]
Alex Ritson
Uganda's opposition leader Bobby Wine tells the BBC he's been forced into hiding after what he believes was a rigged presidential election. Donald Trump has told the Norwegian prime minister that he can no longer think, in his words, purely of peace, and that he wants complete and total control of Greenland. He said he would follow through on his threats to impose tariffs on eight European countries if the autonomous Danish territory doesn't become part of the United States. There is some opposition in America to his plans. The Democratic Senator, Chris Coons, has urged Republicans to rein in Mr. Trump.
- [02:36]
BBC Correspondent / Interviewer
I think it's important that we try to lower the temperature, that we work across the aisle and find proposals for a path forward that would allow an action by Congress both to restrain President Trump's misuse of tariffs against NATO allies and to restrict his ability to threaten a NATO ally with force. And frankly, I'm hopeful that Republican colleagues will be successful in talking President Trump out of this. But if they aren't, we need to be prepared to act in Congress on a bipartisan basis, because this is very dangerous.
- [03:13]
Alex Ritson
But Mr. Trump has many supporters. Randy Fine is a Republican congressman from Florida who last week introduced a bill to Congress called the Greenland Annexation and Statehood Act. He wants the island to become the 51st state of the U.S. president Trump.
- [03:29]
BBC Correspondent / Interviewer
Is the world's best negotiator, and I think part of the way you negotiate is you. You negotiate through strength, and that's what he's making clear. The United States should control Greenland. It's in the Western Hemisphere. It's critical to our national security. It's not critical to Denmark's. And I think that we're already protecting it. We ought to make it part of our family, much like we did with Alaska 100 plus years ago.
- [03:54]
Alex Ritson
All this as Denmark boosted its military presence in Greenland on Monday night, sending more soldiers, although they're part of exercises aimed at Russia rather than the United States. There's also another arrival expected soon. Aircraft from North American Aerospace Defense Command, a joint U.S. canadian military organization, are being sent to the U.S. space base in Greenland for what's being described as long planned activities. And I asked our North America correspondent, David Willis, if European resistance to the President's threats would make him listen.
- [04:28]
David Willis
No indication of that so far at least. Alex. And Donald Trump told the US network, NBC, that he was 100% serious about the threat to impose these tariffs on European nations who supported Denmark. And he was asked to rule out the use of force in order to achieve that end. And he replied simply, no comment. Well, he's due to travel to Switzerland for the World Economic Forum meeting on Tuesday evening, arriving there on Wednesday, where he will, of course, Alex, be very much the centre of attention.
- [05:07]
Alex Ritson
Is there any way we can predict what Mr. Trump is going to do next?
- [05:12]
David Willis
Well, a key element of his negotiating style is, of course, keeping people guessing, isn't it? He's not afraid to change his mind. That said, he's done so repeatedly in the past, particularly on the issue of trade tariffs. On the Greenland issue, though, Mr. Trump so far seems particularly unwavering. And that may be partly because he saw the joint military exercises that several European nations have been taking part in in Greenland over the last few days as a direct challenge to the United States. And he said as much in the message that he posted threatening those new tariffs on Saturday. And in that mess, Mr. Trump accused the countries taking part in those military exercises of playing what he called a very dangerous game. Well, it since emerged that the President may have misunderstood, may have been misled, perhaps, about what was going on there, in the sense that instead of posing a challenge to the United States, those exercises were intended instead as a sign that Denmark and its European partners were taking the issue of Arctic security seriously and could be trusted with it. And it's being reported that during a call with Sir Keir starmer of the UK yesterday, Mr. Trump conceded that he had received bad information about that troop deployment. So it's almost possible he could change his mind. And, of course, last year, Alex, the Financial Times coined the phrase Trump always chickens out. And of course, there are many in Europe who are hoping that he does so this time.
- [06:57]
Alex Ritson
David Willis. When President Trump in his first term said he wanted to buy Greenland, most people thought it was a bit of a joke. The question has moved through the laughter phase now into anger and bargaining. But in a bizarre way, President Trump's initial intuition that land, along with the residents, can be bought and sold is in line with historical practice and has played a large part in the history of the United States. Tim Marshall is the author of Prisoners of Geography. He spoke to my colleague Emma Evan Davis.
- [07:29]
Tim Marshall
We start in 1803. This is the Louisiana Purchase, bought from France. Napoleon's busy fighting the Napoleonic wars, needs a bit of cash, and thinks, well, that's not worth much, is it? You know, all that area. So he sold it for $15 million. But what it did for the United States was it secured the Mississippi River Basin. That's basically from the Appalachian Mountains right across to the, to the Rockies, which is the best farmland in the world. So it secures the heart land for the Americans, and it gets them on the path to the Pacific. It's one of the main reasons why they are the most powerful country in the world now.
- [08:07]
BBC Correspondent / Interviewer
Okay, the other famous one we should talk about in the history of the US has got to be the purchase of Alaska, 1867.
- [08:15]
Tim Marshall
$7.2 million to Russia, thank you very much. But they called it Seward's Folly. He was the Secretary of State, Sir William Seward, who negotiated this. And people were saying, you've just spent all that money on snow. But just a few decades later, oh, there's a lot of oil underneath that snow. And for your 7.2 million, you've now got a close to $200 billion worth of oil they've dug out of. It becomes the 49th state, but also strategically sits on the Bering Strait, dividing the United States from Russia. The Aleutian Islands were included. They're part of the missile defense system. Very useful. I have two more for you if you want them.
- [09:00]
BBC Correspondent / Interviewer
Okay, go on, Will. Is one of these from Denmark, which obviously is ironic. Yeah, tell us about that one.
- [09:06]
Tim Marshall
Well, before that, 1898, the Philippines are bought from Spain for 20 million. The Panama Canal Zone, but only the zone bought in 1903, handed back later. And then, yeah, the U.S. virgin Islands from Denmark, $25 million. That was in 1917. And then the last bid was Truman, 1953, who offered Denmark 100 million in gold. And the Dane said, no, thank you, which is of course, what they're saying now.
- [09:36]
Alex Ritson
Tim Marshall, author of prisoners of geography Mr. Trump might be paying a lot of attention abroad at the moment, but that doesn't mean there aren't issues to deal with at home. One of the biggest is the affordability of everyday items. The US Economy is growing faster than most others. Inflation is not out of control, and stock markets are hitting record highs. But for many Americans, it feels like a struggle to earn enough money to live on. The BBC's Rahul Tandon asks if there is a mismatch between the statistics and the reality of balancing household budgets.
- [10:12]
Rahul Tandon
This is the issue that is currently at the heart of political debate in the world's largest economy. So what do the latest figures tell us?
- [10:20]
Samira Hussein
When Mr. Trump came into office in January of 2025, inflation was at about 3%.
- [10:27]
Rahul Tandon
Now, north of America business correspondent Samira Hussein.
- [10:30]
Samira Hussein
And now it's fluctuated to where we are now at 2.7%. So is inflation high? Well, it's higher than what the Federal Reserve, America's central bank, would want it to be at. They sort of aim for a 2%, but it's certainly not the 9% that we saw at the height of the pandemic under Joe Biden back in June of 2022.
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Rahul Tandon
In the US real wages have been rising for a decade, yet every survey shows us in spite of people still feel worse off. Let's hear from some shoppers outside a store in Atlanta, Georgia.
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Bobby Wine
Under the Trump administration, price of food.
- [11:07]
BBC Correspondent / Interviewer
Has gone up considerably.
- [11:08]
David Willis
And sometimes it's even cheaper for us to eat out.
- [11:11]
BBC Correspondent / Interviewer
My grocery bill has actually doubled. The one that costs me the most is meat. Most people in this country live paycheck to paycheck. They can't really afford higher prices.
- [11:20]
Bobby Wine
They barely can pay their rent.
- [11:21]
Rahul Tandon
Aaron Cass, he's the founder and chief economist of the conservative think tank American Compass, previously worked on the presidential campaigns of Mitt Romney.
- [11:30]
Aaron Cass
It reflects a long term building problem with affordability that is leading to people feeling like their budgets are squeezed because they are. What we've seen in recent years differs a little bit from that, just general. You hear your grandpa say that the ice cream cone used to cost a nickel, but of course, you know, what was the hourly wage, Right. And so I think what we've seen really in the most recent 30 or 40 years in the United States, though, is that wages have not grown as quickly and in some cases they've been declining in real terms. And so, you know, the research that we've done at American Compass shows that if you look at what your typical especially male worker earns and how much it costs to provide economic security to a family, it really did used to be the case that you could afford it and it really is the case that you can't afford it anymore.
- [12:21]
Rahul Tandon
Let's hear Donald Trump talking about those issues.
- [12:23]
BBC Correspondent / Interviewer
When you see energy coming down like I brought it down and gasoline coming.
- [12:27]
Tim Marshall
Down, that brings everything else down.
- [12:29]
BBC Correspondent / Interviewer
When gasoline gets to be 199A gallon, everything comes down. The donuts come down.
- [12:35]
Alex Ritson
This truck that delivers the donuts, the.
- [12:37]
Tim Marshall
Stove that makes the donuts, the whole.
- [12:39]
Alex Ritson
Thing, it all comes down. Then it's coming down much faster than.
- [12:42]
BBC Correspondent / Interviewer
Anybody can even believe.
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Samira Hussein
If you can't buy groceries for your family, you don't care whether inflation's 1% or 10%, you can't buy groceries for your family.
- [12:50]
Rahul Tandon
Liberty Vita, the data science professor at the All In Business School if we.
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Samira Hussein
Look at what people tend to look at to decide if they're doing well financially or not, it's gas and groceries. And what we've seen really since COVID is a great rise, especially in groceries. But who we blame that on, I think, is a bigger question.
- [13:11]
Rahul Tandon
The US Economy is growing faster than most other high income economies and its stock market is at record highs. Things on paper look good, but for many Americans, the cost of living crunch is still their number one concern and solving it is not going to be easy.
- [13:28]
Alex Ritson
Rahul Tandon still to come in this.
- [13:32]
BBC Correspondent / Interviewer
Podcast, the then mayor of Rome said.
- [13:34]
Samira Hussein
In Italy there is the Pope and.
- [13:37]
Alex Ritson
There is Valentino, fashion designer to the stars of Hollywood's golden age. Valentino Garavani has died. Now could Britain be about to follow Australia and introduce a social media ban for under 16s? The British government is launching a consultation into children's social media use as it considers the issue. It comes just weeks after Australia became the first country in the world to introduce such a ban. Options under consideration include tougher enforcement in schools and Restrictions on potentially addictive design features as the government looks at a range of measures to keep children safe online. The consultant psychiatrist Professor Matthew Sadleier advised British MPs pushing for a ban. He told my colleague James Kumarasamy about the threat social media use can pose to young people.
- [14:38]
BBC Correspondent / Interviewer
We would see two types of main difficulties and problems with children on social media. First is problems that they get from the process of actually being on an algorithmically driven panel that, you know, encourages usage. We would say that at the moment, Statistically the average 12 year old is spending, give or take 4 hours a day looking at a smartphone. Now that's give or take about a third of their available time, which, you know, if they were continue that their whole life, that would be 20 solid years of looking at a smartphone. So that will give them problems in regards to addiction towards the phone, it'll give them problems towards language and communication development, poor academic achievement. And actually a study coming out in New Zealand showed that the longer people spent on phones, the less actually digitally and computer competent they were because they seem to spend more time in specific products and apps than actually using a computer as a productivity tool.
- [15:34]
Sebastian Usher
But what about the evidence for a ban as such? I mean, it's only been, what, weeks since that one came into force in Australia.
- [15:44]
Alex Ritson
Does the government need to wait for.
- [15:45]
Sebastian Usher
More evidence before assessing whether or not a full ban is the right way forward?
- [15:51]
BBC Correspondent / Interviewer
No, not at all. I mean, we're at. We need to apply the precautionary principle on this issue. You know, the first paper on the dangers of cigarette smoking was published in about 1911 and it didn't. Bans on cigarettes didn't happen for another 50 years. And look at all the lives we lost in the intervening period. You know, we have to have a precautionary principle. We have enough evidence that these are dangerous to children from the process as I described, but also the content they're.
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Alex Ritson
Seeing online, the kind of counter argument.
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Sebastian Usher
Of banning certain forms of social media, which is that children will always find.
- [16:24]
Alex Ritson
Alternatives which could be perhaps even more dangerous to them than the ones that are out there.
- [16:30]
BBC Correspondent / Interviewer
Like we ban alcohol, cigarettes, driving, all have age limits and we know that people break those age limits all the time. But we know by having those statutory age limits, fewer children engage in those dangerous activities than they would if those limits weren't there. Yes, some children may be able to circumvent the rules, but that will be a small fraction of the children that will access these products if they were legal. We know about the dangers that happen we know the dangers that happen specifically to vulnerable children in regards to exploitation, pornography, cyberbullying. And these are the things that we need to protect children against today. And you know, some of the stuff that children are seeing on these platforms cannot be unseen. And the damage that is being done. We're seeing an increase of, you know, 500% almost of referrals to mental health services, you know, 16 times increase in presentation and eating disorders in 16 to 17 year olds. Like, I'm not sure how much more evidence we need to start to move on this issue.
- [17:34]
Alex Ritson
Consultant psychiatrist Professor Matthew Sadlier. It was only on Sunday that the Syrian army and Kurdish led forces, the sdf, signed a ceasefire deal to end days of clashes in the northeast of the country. Under the deal, the Kurds were meant to give back control of two provinces to the government and fully integrate their fighters into the army. Now fresh fighting is taking place between the two sides. Reports say clashes erupted around a prison which holds inmates from the Islamic State group. Our Middle east analyst is Sebastian Usher.
- [18:10]
Sebastian Usher
Over the past few hours we've seen more reports of clashes. The SDF itself, it's difficult to judge 100% the veracity of some of the claims they're making. I mean, they said for example, that one of the prisons now a key to this area are the prisons where thousands of ISIS members and suspected ISIS members have been held for years under Kurdish control. And that's always been a threat that they've held over the Kurds. If we go, what will happen to them? So the SDF said that one of those prisons was attacked, that when that happened, prisoners were able to escape. So essentially giving a sense that their control was being taken away from them by groups which were not necessarily controlled government forces. Now the government has responded by saying that's not the case. Actually the sdf, which allowed some of these prisoners to escape and now they're trying to track them down. So it's very unclear exactly what's going on, but what does seem to be the case is that the ceasefire is not going that smoothly. Now there was a meeting between the SDF leader Masloom Abdi and the Syrian President Ahmed Al Shar in Damascus. We haven't heard yet an official announcement about that, that. But everything that has come out seems to imply that it didn't go well, that Maslam Abdi has gone back to the Kurdish area with a sense that the deal that was agreed on Sunday is no longer a deal that he.
- [19:36]
Alex Ritson
Agrees to because historically the Kurds role has been really important. They were the ones who captured and held many of the Islamist fighters. And outsiders may look at this, look at Ahmed Al Sharar, and say, well, you who were an Islamist fighter, there.
- [19:52]
Sebastian Usher
Are people inside Syria and outside who still hold him to that. That's not anymore, I think, the point of view that the international community has and I think particularly importantly the U.S. now it's the U.S. and the international coalition which backed the Kurds and essentially worked with the Kurds in defeating ISIS in Syria. Without those two forces, that wouldn't have happened. So from the Kurdish perspective, this is like history repeating itself. They were talking about betrayal once again, that once again they have performed a service. They see it at their own expense, loss of the lives of their fighters, et cetera, for an outside force. But instead of receiving something in recompense for that, they've been betrayed. That the US has essentially decided that it's better to back the central Damascus government which wants to unify Syria, which is understandable. I mean, Syria is a broken country and any government will try to bring Syria back. And allowing almost a quarter of a country to be under a different leader, leadership is not something that is sustainable in the long run. So the US certainly gave the green light to the government to go in and take a much more proactive stance against the Kurds. Now, if we look across the whole region, there are a large number of Kurds in Iraq. They have a semi autonomous area up in the north. There's a large number in Iran in the latest Iranian protests. The Kurds played quite a big part in that. And in Turkey. Turkey, it's a major issue there. In Turkey, there's been at various times a huge conflict with government forces, the pkk, regarded as terrorists by the government there. So the Kurds are famously one of the biggest ethnic groups in the world who don't have their own state. There's maybe 30 to 40 million in this area.
- [21:44]
Alex Ritson
Our Middle east analyst Sebastian Asha to Uganda now, where the opposition leader Bobby Wine has told the BBC that he's in hid because he fears for his safety. He says police raided his house, but he was able to escape, although his family are still there. This all follows Thursday's presidential election where the longtime president Yoweri Museveni was declared the winner for the seventh time with more than 70% of the vote. Bobby Wine says the election was rigged. He's been speaking to Catherine Biaru Hanga.
- [22:18]
Bobby Wine
I'm in hiding because I was raided at my house and I was able to escape. But prior to the raid, I Got information that there was a plan to attack me at my house and harm me. The people that raided me were police officers and a bunch of other individuals in plain clothes. They jumped over my fence, cut off the electricity and surveillance cameras, and I saw it dangerous for me to stay around.
- [22:50]
Samira Hussein
How long do you expect to be in hiding and what could change that for you?
- [22:56]
Bobby Wine
I want security to leave my house. I want them to get away from my home because they are occupying my home illegally. Be sure that I'm not in their hands. Therefore, I can be at large. I can be able to communicate with my people.
- [23:13]
Samira Hussein
The head of police in Uganda has said that they're simply providing security to presidential candidates. We've also heard from the police saying that you're actually at home. How would you respond to that?
- [23:26]
Bobby Wine
Well, that shows you that whatever the police in Uganda is saying is a lie. They know I'm not in my house, but they're lying with a straight face. They say they're only providing security to my home, but they are blocking everybody to from coming to my house. They even blocked food that was meant for my family.
- [23:46]
Samira Hussein
How different is this situation to the previous election? Because after that election, you were kept under house arrest. Have things changed this time around to make you leave your home, as you say?
- [23:59]
Bobby Wine
No, I'm telling you, Catherine, I just escaped from my house because I was raided, because I heard that they were planning to harm me. You have heard. You have read his recent tweets. That's why I have to be careful with myself.
- [24:16]
Samira Hussein
He has said in response to one of your tweets that nobody's looking for you. Just tell me about the specific post that you're concerned about.
- [24:26]
Bobby Wine
Please go read his most recent tweet. When he said he's looking for me and he's giving me 48 hours to surrender myself to the police as if I'm a criminal.
- [24:37]
Samira Hussein
Know you've obviously seen the election results. You've spoken about some of the videos that you say show rigging of the ballots in support of the president. According to these results, your vote share has dropped. Do you concede this election? And if not, what are you planning to do?
- [25:00]
Bobby Wine
We have said it many times that we reject the pronouncements of the Electoral Commission. We reject those results because they are fake and they don't in any way reflect the voting pattern. They are completely different from the results on the polling stations and on the declaration forms.
- [25:19]
Samira Hussein
What are you planning to do as a result?
- [25:21]
Bobby Wine
We said what we are planning to do as soon as we started the campaign. We told the people of Uganda that all hope it's in their hands, not in any institution, not in the courts of law, but in the hands of the people of Uganda to rise and rid themselves of this dictatorship.
- [25:37]
Alex Ritson
Bobby Wine speaking to Catherine Biaruhanger. The Italian fashion designer Valentino Garavani has died, aged 93. Famed for his elegant red dresses, Valentino clothed Hollywood stars including Audrey Hepburn, Julia Roberts and Elizabeth Taylor, as well as high society and royalty. Our correspondent David Sillitoe looks back at his life.
- [26:03]
Bobby Wine
I know what two men want and.
- [26:04]
Alex Ritson
What do they want?
- [26:06]
Bobby Wine
They want to be beautiful.
- [26:07]
Alex Ritson
When Jackie Kennedy married Aristotle Onassis, her wedding dress was Valentino. Indeed, in the years before, her mourning attire had been made up of six couture Valentino gowns. Princess Diana, Audrey Hepburn, Grace Kelly, Sophia Loren, Valentino Clemente. Ludovico Garavani was for decades the go to name for carpet glamour. If you wanted to stand out and you had the money, you went to visit Valentino.
- [26:36]
Bobby Wine
I used to do 30, 40 drawing in one day, putting the material on top of the girl to see the.
- [26:45]
Alex Ritson
Effect of the light.
- [26:48]
Bobby Wine
And the dress was designed.
- [26:49]
Alex Ritson
His signature color even has a pantone trademark, Valentino Red. At his peak, he flew only by private jet. His parties were legendary. His home's art filled opulence. Born near Milan, he'd not grown up with great wealth. But when he set up as a couturier, it coincided with the era of Fellini and La Dolce Vita. When Elizabeth Taylor chose one of his outfits for the premiere of Spartacus, his rise to fame had begun. Forty years later, when Julia Roberts collected her Oscar, she was wearing a black and white Valentino. No one cared that it was a vintage design. Valentino's red carpet glamour was timeless. David Sillitoe and that's all from us for now. But there'll be a new edition of the Global News podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcastbc.co.uk. you can also find us on x@bbcworldservice. Use the hashtag globalnewspod. This edition was mixed by Joe McCartney and the producer was Pete Ross. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Alex Ritson. Until next time. Goodbye.
- [28:17]
Samira Hussein
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