Trump says he expects to meet Putin in Saudi Arabia

Summary

Global News Podcast Summary BBC World Service | Release Date: February 13, 2025

The latest episode of the Global News Podcast by the BBC World Service delves into a spectrum of critical global issues, with a particular focus on geopolitical tensions, diplomatic efforts, and significant international incidents. Below is a comprehensive summary of the episode, structured into clearly defined sections to aid understanding for listeners who may not have tuned in.

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1. U.S. Diplomatic Efforts to End the Ukraine Conflict

Timestamp: 00:38 - 11:15

Donald Trump's Engagement with Putin and Zelenskyy The episode opens with a detailed analysis of former U.S. President Donald Trump's recent diplomatic outreach aimed at resolving the ongoing war in Ukraine. Trump has conducted separate phone calls with both Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, signaling a potential shift in U.S. foreign policy.

• Trump's Goal: "I'll be dealing with President Putin largely on the phone and we ultimately expect to meet. In fact, we expect that he'll come here and I'll go there and we're going to meet also probably in Saudi Arabia. The first time we'll meet in Saudi Arabia, see if we can get something done. But we want to end that war. That war is a disaster. It's a really bloody, horrible war." (03:21)

• Zelenskyy's Response: In his nightly address, President Zelenskyy acknowledged the talks as positive. "I'm grateful to the president for his sincere interest in our shared potential and how we can work together to achieve real peace. It was a lengthy discussion covering many diplomatic, military and economic nuances." (02:10)

Implications of Trump's Engagement Journalist Jonathan Beale provides insights into the broader implications of these diplomatic moves. He emphasizes that the Trump administration's approach marks a departure from previous U.S. policies, notably by ruling out Ukraine's NATO membership and showing a transactional attitude toward American support for Ukraine.

• Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's Statement: "We must start by recognizing that returning to Ukraine's pre2014 borders is an unrealistic objective. Chasing this illusionary goal will only prolong the war and cause more suffering." (05:09)

2. Russian and European Reactions

Timestamp: 04:00 - 10:16

Russia's Perspective Steve Rosenberg, the BBC's Russia editor, highlights that Trump's direct engagement with Putin is perceived by Russia as a diplomatic victory. This is further reinforced by Russia's anticipation that negotiations with the U.S. will be more productive compared to previous talks involving European nations.

• Putin's Position: "This telephone call alone as a diplomatic victory." (04:31)

European Limitations Jonathan Beale discusses the challenges Europe faces in filling the support gap left by the U.S. Regarding the Ukraine ceasefire, he notes that European nations are currently unequipped to provide the necessary military support and peacekeeping forces independently.

• Defense Group Response: "Europe cannot fill the void left by America in terms of military support for Ukraine. It does need to increase its defence spending." (10:13)

3. Mediation Efforts in Gaza

Timestamp: 11:15 - 13:03

Egypt and Qatar's Role Amidst the fragile ceasefire in Gaza, Egypt and Qatar are intensifying their mediation efforts to prevent the collapse of the agreement. A senior Egyptian source explained that failure to release remaining hostages could reignite the conflict with severe regional consequences.

• Ceasefire Stakes: "Failure, said the source, would lead to a new wave of violence with serious regional repercussions." (11:41)

Trump's Ultimatum and Israel's Stance President Trump has issued a stern warning that the war will resume unless all hostages held by Hamas are released by Saturday. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu remains ambiguous about his stance, complicating the ceasefire's sustainability.

4. Rescue Operation in Sakhalin, Russia

Timestamp: 13:03 - 14:54

Fishermen Stranded on Ice A gripping rescue operation unfolded on Russia's largest island, Sakhalin. Over a hundred fishermen found themselves stranded on a drifting ice slab in the North Pacific due to a sudden ice break-up.

• Rescue Attempts: "On social media, some of the men refused to get on the helicopter and walked away towards their catches of fish and more importantly, their equipment." (13:33)

Cultural Context Rachel Wright provides context on the longstanding tradition of ice fishing in Russia, noting that millions participate annually despite the inherent risks.

5. MI5's Misconduct Exposed

Timestamp: 16:25 - 20:16

False Evidence to Courts A significant revelation emerged regarding the British Domestic Security Service (MI5), which admitted to providing false evidence in court cases involving a misogynistic neo-Nazi agent named Agent X. MI5 had previously lied to multiple courts to protect the agent's identity while attempting to prevent investigative reporting by the BBC.

• MI5's Admission: "In an unprecedented admission, MI5 has now issued an unreserved apology to the BBC and all three courts, describing what happened as a serious error and saying MI5 takes full responsibility." (17:01)

Consequences and Repercussions The Home Secretary, Yvette Cooper, has appointed a senior lawyer to investigate MI5's actions and recommend future safeguards. The incident has significantly damaged MI5's credibility and raised questions about the trustworthiness of intelligence agencies in judicial processes.

6. Repatriation of Scam Center Workers from Myanmar

Timestamp: 20:16 - 21:57

Rescue from Scam Operations Over 250 individuals, including citizens from the Philippines, Kenya, and Bangladesh, escaped Myanmar's scam centers and crossed into Thailand. These workers were coerced into engaging in high-profile telephone and online fraud operations.

• International Efforts: "Civil unrest in Myanmar that's led to a breakdown in law and order has allowed the scam centres to multiply, but there's been an international effort recently to shut them down." (20:16)

Thailand's Role: Thailand intensified pressure by cutting off electricity to key areas in Myanmar, forcing the closure of scam centers and facilitating the repatriation of the victims.

7. Georgian Teachers Support Protesting Colleague

Timestamp: 21:15 - 21:57

Collective Financial Aid In Georgia, over 7,000 teachers responded to a social media appeal to support a colleague, Lado Apkhazava, who was fined for participating in protests. The collective donation, though modest per individual, underscored the communal solidarity among educators.

• Protester’s Plight: "Mr. Abkhazawa told the judge that he was a single parent with four foster children and couldn't afford to pay the fine, which is the equivalent to four months' pay for a teacher." (21:20)

8. Astronauts' Extended Stay on the International Space Station

Timestamp: 21:57 - 25:39

Starliner Spacecraft Issues Two astronauts, Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams, were unexpectedly stranded on the International Space Station (ISS) due to malfunctions with the Starliner spacecraft's thrusters. Originally intended for an eight-day mission, the failure delayed their return to Earth.

• Astronauts' Adaptation: "Their biggest achievement was fixing the urine recycling system on the space station. So water is recycled and that means that astronaut urine, astronaut sweat is turned back into drinking water." (24:00)

Psychological and Logistical Challenges The extended stay posed significant personal and operational challenges, highlighting the resilience and teamwork required among astronauts.

9. Discovery of Roman Basilica Beneath London

Timestamp: 25:39 - 29:07

Archaeological Breakthrough In a remarkable archaeological discovery, parts of London’s first Roman basilica were unearthed beneath a modern office block in the city center. This 2,000-year-old structure, once the hub of political and economic activity, offers invaluable insights into the origins of London.

• Significance of the Find: "This is the heart of Roman London, it's the heart of commerce, this building." (26:23)

Reconstruction and Historical Insights Rebecca Morell reports on the extensive excavation, revealing substantial remnants of the basilica that are expected to reshape our understanding of Roman-era London.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up by reiterating the importance of these global events and their far-reaching implications. From high-stakes diplomacy and international rescues to groundbreaking archaeological finds, the Global News Podcast provides listeners with a thorough and engaging analysis of the day’s most pressing issues.

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Notable Quotes:

• "President Trump has promised to end the war in Ukraine in just one day."
• "MI5 normally have a very clear policy that they will neither confirm nor deny whether somebody is an agent."
• "This urine is tomorrow's coffee."

For more detailed coverage, tune into the Global News Podcast available on all major podcast platforms.

Transcript

[Nick Miles]

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.

[Josh Hartnett]

What does it take to go racing in the fastest cars in the world? Oscar Piastri.

[Oscar Piastri]

Your head's trying to get roofed one way, your body's trying to go another.

[Josh Hartnett]

Let's roll.

[Daniel Desimoni]

It's very extreme in the sense of.

[Josh Hartnett]

How close you're racing.

[Nick Miles]

Wheel to wheel.

[Josh Hartnett]

We've been given unprecedented access to two of the most famous names in Formula One, McLaren and Aston Martin. I'm Landon Arts.

[Oscar Piastri]

They build a beautiful bit of machinery that I get to then go and have fun in.

[Josh Hartnett]

They open the doors for their factories as the 2024 season reached its peak. I'm Josh Hartnett. This is F1 back at base. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Daniel Desimoni]

This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Nick Miles and in the early hours of Thursday 13th February, these are our main stories. There's been a flurry of initiatives from the United States on the war in Ukraine, with Donald Trump holding separate phone calls with Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelensky. The new US Defense secretary has ruled out Ukrainian membership of NATO. Egypt and Qatar say they're stepping up diplomatic efforts to save the ceasefire deal in Gaza. Hundreds of people who'd been working in scam centers in Myanmar have crossed into Thailand after attempts to shut down the operations. Also in this podcast, it all started.

[Rachel Wright]

On Russia's largest island, a 1,000 kilometer strip of land called Sakhalin in the far east of Russia, just north of the Japanese island of Hokkaido.

[Daniel Desimoni]

So why did a group of Russians floating on a shrinking block of ice not want to be rescued? Find out later. Before returning to the White House, Donald Trump promised to end the war in Ukraine in just one day. Now there seems to be the first concrete action towards achieving that, albeit belated, goal. He's spoken to the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, and a short time later to his Ukrainian counterpart, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. In his nightly address, President Zelenskyy said the talks had been positive.

[Oscar Piastri]

I'm grateful to the president for his sincere interest in our shared potential and how we can work together to achieve real peace. It was a lengthy discussion covering many diplomatic, military and economic nuances. President Trump also informed me of what Putin told him. We trust that America's strength, together with.

[Steve Rosenberg]

Our efforts and those of all our.

[Oscar Piastri]

Partners, will be enough to pressure Russia and Putin into peace.

[Daniel Desimoni]

President Trump said he'd had a lengthy and highly productive phone call with the Russian president, during which they'd agreed to work closely to end the conflict. He said both of them believed strongly that the killing must stop. A short time later, in the Oval Office of the White House, President Trump had this to say. I'll be dealing with President Putin largely on the phone and we ultimately expect to meet. In fact, we expect that he'll come here and I'll go there and we're going to meet also probably in Saudi Arabia. The first time we'll meet in Saudi Arabia, see if we can get something done. But we want to end that war. That war is a disaster. It's a really bloody, horrible war. Our North America editor, Sarah Smith has this assessment of President Trump's telephone conversation with President Putin.

[Rachel Wright]

Instead of getting the usual rather dry readout that we get from the White House after these calls, we got Donald Trump's unvarnished take on social media. And that was very positive about what he said was a very productive conversation with Vladimir Putin. And there have been several steps leading up to this to create a positive atmosphere. One of Trump's very closest allies actually met Vladimir Putin, and then an American who'd been being held prisoner in Russia was released. And Donald Trump was delighted about that. Both Russia and America are going to have teams start negotiating immediately about the situation in Ukraine. And he's named a very high level team, including the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio and the director of the CIA.

[Daniel Desimoni]

So what's been the reaction in Moscow? Steve Rosenberg is the BBC's Russia editor. This is exactly what Vladimir Putin wanted.

[Oscar Piastri]

He said before he wants to deal.

[Daniel Desimoni]

Directly with America as far as the.

[Oscar Piastri]

War in Ukraine goes, not with Europe.

[Daniel Desimoni]

Not even with Ukraine, but with America. And when you think nearly three years ago, when Vladimir Putin launched his full scale invasion of Ukraine, he became an international pariah. We saw those thousands of sanctions, international.

[Steve Rosenberg]

Sanctions imposed on Russia.

[Daniel Desimoni]

He was a pariah. Now he's back on the international stage. And I think the Russians will view.

[Steve Rosenberg]

This telephone call alone as a diplomatic victory.

[Daniel Desimoni]

Steve Rosenberg in Moscow. The news of Donald Trump's conversation with Vladimir Putin came after the US Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth spoke in Brussels to a group of more than 50 nations who'd been supporting Ukraine during the conflict. He said that there would be no return to Ukraine's original 2014 borders. In other words, Kyiv should forget about reasserting its control over Crimea and other areas occupied by Russia or Russian backed forces.

[Josh Hartnett]

We want, like you, a sovereign and prosperous Ukraine. But we must start by recognizing that returning to Ukraine's pre2014 borders is an unrealistic objective. Chasing this illusionary goal will only prolong the war and cause more suffering. A durable peace for Ukraine must include robust security guarantees to ensure that the war will not begin again. That said, the United States does not believe that NATO membership for Ukraine is a realistic outcome of a negotiated settlement. Instead, any security guarantee must be backed by capable European and non European troops.

[Daniel Desimoni]

Our correspondent in Kyiv is James Waterhouse. He gave his reaction to the developments regarding Ukraine.

[Oscar Piastri]

Rest assured, today has been a political body blow for Ukraine. I think it has long been known that the Trump administration would have a different approach to its predecessors. It would perhaps be seen here as a less sympathetic approach. We've certainly seen a more transactional attitude when it's come to American support for Ukraine. I think President Zelensky has been very much in pitching and negotiating mode. But still, to hear Pete Hegseth there give this speech in Brussels where he talked about NATO membership for Ukraine being off the table, where he talked about any foreign intervention troop wise after a ceasefire not involving American troops, there's ambiguity on that. He's putting the onus on Europe, which thus far has struggled to fill any gap left by America. President Zelenskyy said any security guarantees without America don't amount to much. The view that Ukraine can't repel Russia to its original borders, I think there are battlefield realities Ukraine is having to accept. But nevertheless, for the country's biggest ally to be saying things like that, you can only imagine that Moscow will be happier with what has been going on. And then you have this phone call, this phone call between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, a seemingly warm exchange. If you look at Donald Trump's post where many topics were discussed, and it comes back to this, this Ukrainian fear that there would be talks about Ukraine's future, this country's future, without Ukraine being at the table. And we are seeing that play out now. Now there is a long way to go in terms of what will be agreed, what compromises will be made and how Ukraine can exist and live with Russian forces on its soil. But for now, that road is looking incredibly uncertain. It's looking complicated and far from smooth. And I think we've seen America really lay out its position as it looks to engage Russia more than Ukraine.

[Daniel Desimoni]

James Waterhouse in Ukraine for more on the comments by President Trump and his Defence Secretary, Pete Hegseth. I spoke to our defence correspondent Jonathan Beale, who was at the meeting in Brussels where Mr. Hegseth made the address.

[Jonathan Beale]

The direction of travel was known as far as the new Trump administration on Ukraine, that he said he wanted to end the war, that he wanted a negotiated settlement with Russia, he wanted the killing to be stopped. I think everybody knew also that even the last Biden administration was not enthusiastic about NATO's membership. But I think it's all together. It's the most explicit statement by the US Defense Secretary exif on US policy towards Ukraine under this new administration. And that is not just explicitly stating no NATO membership, but also that Ukraine will not regain all the territory it has lost to Russia. And also saying that America is, is a limit to how much America is prepared to do as far as not just military support, but security guarantees if there is some kind of negotiated settlement, some kind of cease fire, making clear that there would be no US boots on the ground. And if you look at all this in totality, it flies in the face of what NATO has said before. Not least because here we have President Trump talking directly to President Putin without Ukraine involved. The mantra here has been no decisions about Ukraine's future without Ukraine. Well, that appears to at the moment not be the case. And also it is not what they have been saying publicly. Here. Even if there's skepticism about Ukraine joining NATO. The message was that Ukraine was on a path to NATO membership. So I think all in all, you look at this, not completely unexpected, but clearly disappointing to most of the officials here.

[Daniel Desimoni]

And Jonathan, that was a clear indication that European nations would be expected to police any cease fire deal in Ukraine if and when it comes and provide much of the aid. Is there the ability and the will amongst European leaders to do that?

[Jonathan Beale]

The UK Defense Secretary chair the Ukraine contact Group and said that Europe is stepping up, Europe needs to step up that. Last year, for example, Europe provided 50%, more than 50%, 58% of the military aid to Ukraine. That said, Europe cannot fill the void left by America in terms of military support for Ukraine. It does need to increase its defence spending. And then discussions about that at the moment. And the fact is that European armies have been reduced greatly because of the peace dividend at the end of the Cold War. Numbers are down. And to get that figure of what people are talking about, you need on the ground a number of troops from other countries, 100,000 to make sure that that was some kind of meaningful peacekeeping force. Europe would struggle to do that on its own. And that is why President Zelensky has been clear that it needs America. But today he's got a clear message from the US that they are not going to put their own boots in the ground.

[Daniel Desimoni]

Jonathan Beale. Now to other news. Egypt and Qatar are said to be intensifying mediation efforts to try to save the troubled Gaza ceasefire agreement. President Trump has warned that unless all the remaining hostages held by Hamas are released on Saturday, the war will resume. The the position of Israel's prime minister on the issue isn't as clear as our correspondent in Jerusalem, Wira Davis, explains.

[Steve Rosenberg]

A senior Egyptian source told the BBC that Egypt and Qatar, who helped broker the current ceasefire deal, are trying to prevent its collapse after recriminations between Hamas and Israel over the planned release of more hostages on Saturday. Failure, said the source, would lead to a new wave of violence with serious regional repercussions. Donald Trump and the Israeli prime minister have both said that if hostages aren't handed over as agreed under stage one of the ceasefire, the deal would be off and the war in Gaza would resume. But while Mr. Trump says that all hostages should be freed and there are 76 still in captivity, Benjamin Netanyahu has been less clear, perhaps intentionally so, not saying if he agrees with Mr. Trump or if he's demanding three more hostages to be freed on Saturday as outlined under the deal. Either way, the uncertainty and Donald Trump's regular interventions have complicated the already fragile ceasefire. If Hamas, as before, does publish a list on Friday of which three hostages it intends to release, Mr. Netanyahu may find it difficult to cancel the deal. Israel's defense minister, Israel Katz, today kept up the pressure on Hamas, saying that if it does not release the hostages on Saturday, the gates of hell will open on them. The just as the US President promised.

[Daniel Desimoni]

Wirra Davis in Jerusalem now catching fish in your spare time with a rod and line is normally done from the safety of a riverbank or beach. That's not how they do it in the freezing Russian winters, though. They venture out onto the ice, and that can cause real problems. The emergency services in Russia have just had to rescue more than 100 fishermen stranded on a slab of ice drifting in the North Pacific. Rachel Wright has more details.

[Rachel Wright]

It all started on Russia's largest island, a 1,000 kilometer strip of land called Sakhalin in the far east of Russia, just north of the Japanese island of Hokkaido. The Succuline winter fishing season begins in early February, with a period where the fish are actively biting until April. A large group of men had gathered in a small area to go fishing, but then disaster struck as the slab of ice they were on split off from the island and floated off into the Sea of Okhotsk. Russian emergency services sent a helicopter, which landed on the slab of ice, posting videos of what they thought would be their heroic rescue. On social media, some of the men refused to get on the helicopter and walked away towards their catches of fish and more importantly, their equipment, including snowmobiles and fishing rods. Apparently, they wanted to wait for a hovercraft to arrive so that they could take their stuff with them. Millions of Russian men and even, it's said, a few women take to the ice every year. Across the country, the figure has been put as high as 30 million, about 1/5 of the population. It's been a popular pastime for centuries. It was first practiced by Stone Age tribes using poles and nets.

[Daniel Desimoni]

Rachel Wright. Still to come, in an office block in London.

[Rebecca Morell]

We've opened up a test pit in the basement of this room. Yes, there's a filing cabin right next to us, but you can see a huge chunk of Roman masonry. It's absolutely fantastic.

[Daniel Desimoni]

We look at the wonders below the ground.

[Josh Hartnett]

What does it take to go racing in the fastest cars in the world? Oscar Piastri.

[Oscar Piastri]

Your head's trying to get ripped one way, your body's trying to go another.

[Josh Hartnett]

Let's stroll.

[Daniel Desimoni]

It's very extreme in the sense of.

[Josh Hartnett]

How close you're racing. Wheel to wheel, we've been given unprecedented access to two of the most famous names in Formula One, McLaren and Aston Martin.

[Oscar Piastri]

I'm London Arts. They build a beautiful bit of machinery that I get to then go and have fun in.

[Josh Hartnett]

They open the doors to their factories. As the 2024 season reached its peak. I'm Josh Hartnett, this is F1 back at base. Listen, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Daniel Desimoni]

The BBC can reveal that the British Domestic Security Service MI5 lied to three courts while defending its handling of a misogynistic neo Nazi agent who attacked his girlf with a machete. The Security Service told judges it had stuck to its policy of not confirming or denying the informant's identity, when in fact it had disclosed the man's status to the BBC as it tried to stop the corporation investigating him. MI5 has apologized. Daniel Desimoni, who carried out the original investigation, has this report.

[Nick Miles]

MI5 first gave false evidence three years ago when the government attempted to block me and the BBC from reporting on Agent X's wrongdoing and succeeded in banning us from naming the foreign national who'd used his role as an MI5 informant to coerce his British girlfriend, known by the alias Beth. The Security Service then repeated the lie, insisting it had never confirmed X was an agent. To a specialist court where Beth is seeking answers about Mi5's handling of its agent it repeated it again to a judicial review in which Beth was challenging the specialist court's decision to allow MI5 to refuse to confirm the man's status as an agent. In light of MI5's new admissions, the specialist court considering Beth's claim will consider afresh whether it was right to rule that evidence should be kept from Beth in closed sessions, which she would not be able to attend. When I challenged MI5 on its false evidence, it aggressively maintained its position until I produced evidence proving it was untrue, including a recording of a senior MI5 officer who'd called me to say he'd been legally authorised to tell me that X was an agent in an effort to stop me reporting on his extremism. Hi, it's Daniel. He's been kind of, you know, deauthorised for a period of time because things have been quiet. So when he made that comment, he actually wasn't working for us. It might well be that other comments you've seen. He did do that while he was working for us. In an unprecedented admission, MI5 has now issued an unreserved apology to the BBC and all three courts, describing what happened as a serious error and saying MI5 takes full responsibility. The corporate MI5 witness who gave false evidence says he thought he was telling the truth. An internal MI5 disciplinary investigation is underway. There will now be pressure on MI5 Director General, Sir Ken MacCallum, to explain what he knew. We can reveal today that he phoned the BBC's director general, Tim Davy, to cast doubt on the corporation's original story about Agent X, wrongly calling it inaccurate, a claim that was itself untrue. The former Conservative Attorney General, Dominic Greave said the revelations call into question how much MI5 can be trusted by the courts.

[Oscar Piastri]

MI5 normally have a very clear policy that they will neither confirm nor deny whether somebody is an agent, and the.

[Daniel Desimoni]

Courts have always respected it because of.

[Oscar Piastri]

The need to protect agents. To get it wrong reduces the trust of the judiciary in what is said to them by an intelligence agency. And the need to maintain that complete trust between government and the courts is absolutely essential.

[Nick Miles]

The Home Secretary, Yvette Cooper, has appointed a senior lawyer to investigate how MI5 came to provide false evidence to the courts and recommend any changes needed to ensure courts are provided with accurate information in Future by MI5. The report is due to be given to the High Court in April.

[Daniel Desimoni]

Daniel de Simone reporting more than 250 people who worked in scam centers in Myanmar across the border into Thailand. They'll be repatriated to their home countries. Our Asia Pacific editor Mickey Bristow reports. The group who crossed over into Thailand includes citizens from the Philippines, Kenya and Bangladesh. Many were lured to Myanmar by the promise of high paying jobs and then forced to engage in telephone and online fraud. Civil unrest in Myanmar that's led to a breakdown in law and order has allowed the scam centres to multiply, but there's been an international effort recently to shut them down. Last week, Thailand cut off electricity to five areas in Myanmar to force the centres out of business. Micky Bristow Thousands of teachers in Georgia have donated money to a colleague who was fined for taking part in protests. More than 7,000 tutors responded to a social media appeal. As Rehan Dimitri in Tbilisi explains, thousands.

[Nick Miles]

Of teachers across Georgia transferred around $0.50 each to the account of one of their colleagues, Lado Apkhazava, to help him pay a fine for protesting. On Monday, Mr. Abkhazawa, along with several activists, including internationally renowned Georgian jazz singer Nino Katamadze, were ordered by a judge to pay the equivalent of 1800 US dollars each for picketing outside the house of an official. Mr. Abkhazawa told the judge that he was a single parent with four foster children and couldn't afford to pay the fine, which is the equivalent to four month pay for a teacher.

[Daniel Desimoni]

Rehan Dimitri after eight months stuck at the International Space Station, a return mission has been planned to get two astronauts back down to Earth. In mid March, Mark Loewen spoke to science and space journalist Richard Hollingham, who told us more about these astronauts stuck in space.

[Richard Hollingham]

You've got Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams, the first astronauts to fly in the Starliner spacecraft on an eight day mission. NASA probably made a mistake in trailing this as an eight day mission because they would have been there for at least eight months by the time they come back to Earth. What happened with Starliner? It launched fine, but as they were approaching the space station, there are all sorts of problems with the thrusters and they were able to dock successfully. What NASA feared was that the thruster problem would endanger their lives essentially when they went. So these are little rockets on the spacecraft that you look at, you know, the International Space Station, it's the size of a football stadium with lots of bits jutting out, lots of, you know, other spacecraft docked to it, these enormous solar arrays coming in close. You've got to maneuver really carefully. You know, it's like, you know, parking a car but in three dimensions with no gravity. And if your thrusters are failing, there's a Real danger that you could slam into the space station and, you know, potentially put everyone's life at risk there. So the problems with the thrusters, they couldn't figure out. And this is exactly what NASA said. They didn't understand the physics of what was going on with the thrusters. So they got the thrusters working again, but they couldn't work out why, which is always a worry in engineering. So they sent the spacecraft back to Earth without the astronauts leaving. The astronauts on the space station.

[Oscar Piastri]

What's it been like for them being stuck up there for months, Especially given the fact that they thought they were.

[Daniel Desimoni]

Going for such a few days.

[Richard Hollingham]

I mean, that was the going for a few days expectation was an issue in terms of their personal possessions and clothes, likely.

[Daniel Desimoni]

Yeah, yeah.

[Richard Hollingham]

You know, you go away for a weekend.

[Oscar Piastri]

Cabin baggage only.

[Richard Hollingham]

Exactly that, exactly that. So literally their suitcases, well, not quite suitcases, but the equivalent, the space equivalent, had to be sent up later on as it became clear they were going to spend longer in space. But I mean, they are incredibly experienced astronauts, very personable. I've actually been at a party with Sunny Williams, which is a great name drop, hanging out with astronauts.

[Oscar Piastri]

What's she like?

[Richard Hollingham]

Oh, lovely, Absolutely lovely. You've got to be. I mean, that's one of the main criteria for astronauts. We get sort of obsessed with this idea of the right stuff, that these are sort of superhuman and they are, they're better than all of us astronauts, but they also amazing team players. They get on with people and you've got to, if you're stuck in this space station with six other people, got.

[Oscar Piastri]

To be good at small talk.

[Richard Hollingham]

You have so. Or knowing when to spend time on your own. For example, you know, the space station is big enough, so you've got, you know, currently seven astronauts on the space station that there are enough places to just be on your own or just stare out of the window.

[Daniel Desimoni]

So what do we know about how.

[Oscar Piastri]

They'Ve been dealing with all those months up there?

[Richard Hollingham]

Well, I would say their biggest achievement was fixing the urine recycling system on the space station. So water is recycled and that means that astronaut urine, astronaut sweat is turned back into drinking water. And there was a problem with that before. Suni Williams particularly is a bit of an expert on space plumbing. Before that, they were actually having to store urine, if you can imagine such a thing, in a confined space. So they managed to fix the system. So according to NASA, it's now working at 98% capacity. So today's urine is tomorrow's coffee.

[Daniel Desimoni]

The science and space journalist Richard Hollingham. Archaeologists have discovered parts of London's first Roman basilica buried underneath an office block in the city's centre. The 2,000 year old public building was once the location of major political, economic and administrative decisions. It's been described as one of London's most important pieces of Roman history. Our science editor, Rebecca Morell was given exclusive access to the find.

[Sophie]

Sophie, we've just come down to the basement where this amazing discovery has been found. Are you going to take us in to see it?

[Rebecca Morell]

Yes, please come down the corridor, Follow me.

[Sophie]

I mean, it's funny because we're still very much in the basement of a building. There's carpet on the floor, there's filing cabinets in here, but then you come.

[Rebecca Morell]

Into this room and it's quite different. We've opened up a test pit or a test trench in the basement of this room. Yes, there's a filing cabinet right next to, to us, but you can see a huge chunk of Roman masonry. It's absolutely fantastic. And what we're actually looking at is the south nave wall of the first Roman basilica, which was the first town hall built in London. And it's a hugely significant building. This is a tiny fragment. The original building was 40 meters long, about 20 meters wide and probably about 12 meters high. So it would have been a really, really big, imposing building within Roman London.

[Sophie]

And have you always known that this is here? When you sort of dug the test pit, is this what you were sort of hoping to find?

[Rebecca Morell]

We were hoping to find fragments of it. It's been known. More and more information about this building has been gathered over the last 50, 60 years, really. It's been pieced together and identified as this first town hall. But we didn't know that there'd be this much of it surviving. We thought there'd been a few fragments and we're absolutely amazed and thrilled that there's so much of it here and.

[Sophie]

In the next room as well. You've got a bit more, haven't you?

[Rebecca Morell]

Yeah, it carries on. So we know it's at least 10 or 15 metres long and then we think it carries on out underneath the walls of the building, out into Gracechurch Street. So a nice chunk of it survives.

[Sophie]

How significant is this find? I mean, what sort of place would this have been?

[Rebecca Morell]

This is so significant. This is the heart of Roman London, it's the heart of commerce, this building. The Basilica was associated, it was the administrative centre of London, administrative and political centre, really. So it's a bit like in 2000 years time somebody dug up the House of Commons and found the Speaker's chair. You know, that's what we're looking at, this site. And this building will tell us so much about the origins of London, why London grew, why it was chosen as the provincial capital, all sorts. It's just amazing. Amazing.

[Sophie]

The Basilica and the Forum complex. I mean, what would it have been? Sort of a very busy place. Who would have been here? What would have been going on?

[Rebecca Morell]

Well, the Basilica was the town hall and then in front of it was a big open market square with ranges of sort of shops and offices around the outside. And it's a space where there would have been a market square, but also festivals and great speeches would have been given there. It's likely that the Forum square would have had, you know, statues to Roman gods and important emperors and that sort of thing. But it's the place you came really to do business, and it's the place you came to get your court case sorted out. And it's where laws were made and it's where decisions were made about London, but also about the rest of the country.

[Sophie]

I mean, some people would be surprised that we're standing in the basement of a building in the centre of London. And here's a bit of Rome.

[Rebecca Morell]

Yeah, it's amazing. This pit actually is just like a window into Roman London. And there are so many spaces in London and our other cities where you can lift up the basement floor and find something amazing. And it's just such a great connection. It's really fantastic for people to be able to see this, because I think archaeology makes history come alive.

[Daniel Desimoni]

That report by Rebecca Morell. And that's all from us for now, but there will be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcastbc.co.uk you can also find us on XBCWorldService. Use the hashtag lobalnewspod. This edition was mixed by Caroline Driscoll. The producer was Liam McSheffrey. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Nick Miles. And until next time. Goodbye.

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