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Trump wants 'immediate negotiations' to acquire Greenland
00:25:04
US president rules out taking Greenland by force
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- [00:00]
Christian Fraser
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- [00:34]
Nick Beek
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- [01:05]
Ankur Desai
This is the Global News podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Ankur at 16 GMT on Wednesday 21st January. These are our main stories. Donald Trump has told the World Economic Forum he wants immediate negotiations to acquire Greenland for the United States, but he won't take it by force.
- [01:25]
Donald Trump
People thought I would use force. I don't have to use force. I don't want to use force. I won't use force. All the United States is asking for is a place called Greenland.
- [01:34]
Ankur Desai
We'll have more from Davos, where the US President has been addressing world leaders. Also, the BBC has seen photos of hundreds of victims of the bloody suppression of protests in Iran that was shown to relatives trying to identify the dead. Also coming up in this podcast, The sounds outside court are supporters of a man who assassinated the former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe after being sentenced to life in prison. We also explain a new report from the United nations which has declared what it describes as the dawn of an era of global water bankruptcy and the authorities in the Pakistani city of Lahore have launched a drive to install safety safety rods on motorbikes to protect riders from potentially deadly kite strings ahead of a festival. We start in the Alpine town of Davos, in normal times, a small and quiet, somewhat picturesque upmarket Swiss ski resort. But these are anything but normal times. It's currently home to the World Economic Forum, a gathering of the global elite who are waiting today to hear from President Trump. It's fair to say European leaders were braced for impact, waiting to hear what the US President would say about plans to impose tariffs on those countries that support Denmark's sovereignty of Greenland. But instead, President Trump, in a wide ranging speech lasting for around an hour and a half, said he wanted immediate negotiations to acquire Greenland for the United States, although he wouldn't take it by force.
- [03:10]
Donald Trump
People thought I would use force. I don't have to use force. I don't want to use force. I won't use force. All the United States is asking for is a place called Greenland, where we already had it as a trustee, but respectfully returned it back to Denmark not long ago. After we defeated the Germans, the Japanese, the Italians and others In World War II, we gave it back to them. We were a powerful force then, but we are a much more powerful force now.
- [03:41]
Ankur Desai
He praised the people and leaders of Denmark, which has sovereignty over the Arctic island, but said only the US could defend it.
- [03:48]
Donald Trump
We need it for strategic national security and international security. This enormous unsecured island is actually part of North America on the northern frontier of the Western hemisphere. That's our territory. It is therefore a core national security interest of the United States of America. And in fact, it's been our policy for hundreds of years to prevent outside threats from entering our hemisphere. And we've done it very successfully. We've never been stronger than we are now.
- [04:20]
Ankur Desai
Mr. Trump said that US ownership of Greenland was a small ask over a piece of ice and it would be good for NATO, but then went on to attack fellow NATO members for not pulling their weight and mocked the French and Canadian leaders directly. Christian Fraser has been speaking to our Europe correspondent Nick Beek.
- [04:39]
Christian Fraser
I think undoubtedly there will be relief that President Trump said he wouldn't use military force to take Greenland, as you say, in itself, an extraordinary statement. But of course it doesn't remove the problem, the fact that he wants it. And I think for many Europeans listening to this, yes, they would have heard him talk about his fondness for Scotland and Germany and his proud European roots. But I think a lot of people would have seen this as a pretty bitter and angry diatribe. And in place cases, it was just historically inaccurate as well as being insulting. I mean, the Central point for Mr. Trump, he believes that he should be able to get Greenland and the European point of view, he does not mention, he disregards it. The fact that Europeans say that it's their sovereign territory and it's simply not for sale. Mr. Trump saying that it will actually strengthen the NATO alliance, not destroy it, if he were to take Greenland. And he repeatedly referred to it as being our territory, part of North America, and said Absolutely. It was not because of the minerals or because of wealth. It was for American security and global security that he was going to get it.
- [05:50]
Nick Beek
It's the way he speaks to some of his closest allies. It's almost oblivious, Nick, to the fact that they have voting publics, many of these world leaders at home, who were listening to some of this. I mean, he talked about Mark Carney. Canada doesn't survive without the U.S. remember that, Mark, the next time you make your statements or the comments to Emmanuel Macron. He said, there he is yesterday, wearing sunglasses when he delivered him this address at Davos. I watched him yesterday. What the hell happened? You know, and there's plenty of comment in the newspapers in France today about the Ray Bans that Emmanuel Macron was wearing.
- [06:25]
Donald Trump
But.
- [06:26]
Nick Beek
But he sort of. I don't know, he sort of presses the saw on some of the things that politically are really important for some of these world leaders.
- [06:36]
Christian Fraser
Yeah. And I mean, there's the style and the substance on the. On the style. He repeatedly says that he likes his allies, either individually or as a nation, deeming them to be great people. But then he says that he does like Emmanuel Macron, although people might find that hard to believe. So there's always some spite there, it would seem, as well as the apparent praise. And I think the Danes in particular will be quite wounded BY this, because Mr. Trump went back to the Second World War and talked about the role and the influence of the United States in the victory during the Second World War. And then his position was that the Americans made a big mistake by giving it back, talking about Greenland. But of course, it wasn't the Americans to give back. It's never been part of America. And also for the Danes, you know, there was a huge contribution and sacrifice they made during the Afghanistan campaign. Per population, they suffered hugely in terms of the number of people who were killed there, their servicemen and women, and going to Copenhagen. People really feel that very strongly.
- [07:38]
Nick Beek
Yeah. Just before I let you go, though, there is a kernel of truth, always a kernel of truth in what Donald Trump says. I mean, with Greenland, there is a security issue which NATO is not looked after. The energy costs in Europe are rising, which is a problem for businesses. Growth is low. It's anaemic. He's talked about the mix of energy and how different countries have got it wrong. And of course, he's talked about the issue with migration, which is roiling politics all across Europe. So, albeit, you know, European leaders don't like some of the things that Donald Trump says there will be quite a lot of people out there within the European voting public who will say, well, he does have a point on some of these things.
- [08:19]
Christian Fraser
Yeah. And he dragged the European Union and other allies to this 5% spending target for spending on the militaries. All those countries in NATO. And most people now say that that's a really vital level that they meet if they are going to meet the threats of a rapidly changing world. But I think the way things were presented today is it'll be fascinating, Christian, to see what the Europeans do next. They've got this big summit in Brussels tomorrow. Do they take a breath? Do they say, you know, apart from the sound and Fury, is Mr. Trump going to go through with this tariff threat on those eight countries, including the U.K. france and Germany? Will they kick in on February the first, or will he kick it not into the long grass, but will he have a little pause on this? It'd be fascinating to see whether they, they hit back or they try and take some sort of sting out of this and take a beat.
- [09:13]
Ankur Desai
Nick Beek reporting there. And we'll have more reaction and analysis on the later edition of the Global News podcast. To Iran now, where several thousand people are thought to have been killed by the Iranian security forces in recent anti government protests, many relatives have found it difficult to identify their loved ones who have died. Photos leaked to BBCVerify show the faces of hundreds of people killed in the violent crackdown. The images were displayed in a south Tehran mortuary and were one of the few ways to identify the dead. I got more from Merlin Thomas.
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Merlin Thomas
I was sent a secret folder of hundreds of photos from this mortuary in south Tehran. And these are victims of people who were killed during the Iranian government's crackdown on protesters. Now, we've blurred these images to show viewers and audiences, but they show really close up, bloodied, bruised, swollen faces of dead men and women. These are people who were killed in the crackdown. Now, these pictures were used as a way for families to try and identify their loved ones. And we were told that families were huddled around a screen in a mortuary, essentially watching a slideshow of dead bodies for hours. And we've combed through these images and we've identified at least 326 victims, including 18 women. Now, we were told that victims were so disfigured at times that even their loved ones couldn't identify them. And we were also told there were victims there as young as 12 or 13. And we've separately corroborated that by viewing a different video which we've also verified in which we see what appears to be the body of a child.
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Ankur Desai
Sounds extremely harrowing and difficult to digest. And you and the BBC Verify team have been tracking the spread of anti government protests. How are you going about doing this? But also the challenge of facing an Internet blackout as well. That must cause issues, too.
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Merlin Thomas
Absolutely. The Internet blackout has been almost total for nearly two weeks now. And there have been dribs and drabs of information kind of coming out in pockets. And this is one of those pockets of information that have come out. But it shows just how desperate people are to get this sort of information out into the world to show people what is happening to protesters inside Iran, but also what's happening to the families left behind. And they're going to extreme lengths and at great personal risk to themselves to share this information.
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Ankur Desai
And what about a response from the Iranian state? Have we heard anything from them?
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Merlin Thomas
The Iranian Supreme Leader has admitted and publicly acknowledged that thousands have been killed. But he blames the us, Israel and what he calls seditionists for this.
- [11:51]
Ankur Desai
BBC Verifier's Merlin Thomas there now heads up from us. For more depth and analysis or one of our big stories of the day, you can go on YouTube, search for BBC News and then click on the logo and then choose Podcasts and then the Global News podcast. There's a new story available every weekday. Sounds you can hear from outsider Court in the Japanese city of Nara, where protesters staged a small demonstration in support of Tetsuya Yamagami, the man convicted of the murder of the former Prime Minister Shinzo Abe in 2022. Mr. Abe was shot with a homemade gun in Nara city in western Japan while campaigning for his reelection. Our correspondent Shaima Khalil is in Tokyo and is following the story.
- [12:41]
Shaima Khalil
The sentencing today was of Tetsuya Yamagami, the man who pled guilty for the assassination of Shinzo Abe. He was in the court and he sat quietly, his hands on his lap, his head down, as his life in prison sentence was being read to him outside the district court. We've been watching footage all day, really, of people lining up in the cold, trying to get into the court. There were hundreds outside the court and there were very limited seats inside the court because they wanted to witness that moment. Because, of course, the assassination of Shinzo Abe shocked Japan. It shocked the world for so many reasons. But it also led to a political fallout. And that very moment where he was going to receive that sentence was going to be a very key moment in a case that has really stunned A country that is not used to political violence on that level, not used to gun violence on that level.
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Ankur Desai
And what did we learn today about Tetsuyagami and his motivation for the murder during this trial?
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Shaima Khalil
Well, throughout the trial, Tetsuya Yamagami was talking about his motive, talking about the hardships that he faced mentally and growing up within his family. And this is because his mother was a devout follower to the controversial Unification Church, and she'd made immense amounts of donations that he said had left his family bankrupt. And throughout the last few months, as he took to the stand and spoke to the judges, he spoke about how this affected him mentally, the hardships that he faced growing up. There was a standout moment when he was speaking and the judge was asking him how old he was or to confirm that he was 45 years old. And he was silent. And he said, I did not expect to live that long. And it just gave you an idea about his mental state at that moment. We also learned that he decided to kill Shinzo Abe because of what he learned about his links to the Unification Church, his close links to the controversial church. And so on the 8th of July in 2022, as Shinzo Abe was giving a political speech in broad daylight in, in support of a local candidate in Nara District, Yamagami walked up to him and shot him at close range using a homemade gun. And again, that was quite shocking. And it stunned Japan, of course, because of who Shinzo Abe was. He was the former prime minister, but he was still the longest serving prime minister, a very influential figure. But also because gun violence in Japan is so rare. And so the combination of, of those two things, the fact that Shinzo Abe was taken to hospital and then pronounced dead soon after, really stunned the nation. But it then started investigation into the motives and into the Unification Church.
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Ankur Desai
Shamikha reporting from Tokyo. Still to come on this podcast, OpenAI rolls out age prediction on ChatGPT for under 18s. But when it comes to guessing your age, will it get it right? If journalism is the first draft of history, what happens if that draft is flawed? In 1999, four Russian apartment buildings were bombed, hundreds killed. But even now, we still don't know for sure who did it. It's a mystery that sparked chilling theories. Greetings, I'm Helena Merriman, and in a new BBC series, I'm talking to the reporters who first covered this story. What did they miss the first time? The history Bureau. Putin and the apartment bombs. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts, did your laundry set. Finally, give up. Fred's has you covered. Don't trust just anyone. Call your local appliance. Experts at Fred's Appliance enjoy unbeatable savings.
- [16:34]
Christian Fraser
On all Samsung appliances.
- [16:36]
Ankur Desai
Whether you're looking for a new range, dishwasher or refrigerator, we have what you're looking for. Like this Samsung washer and dryer on sale for 599 each. A $900 savings on the pair Fred's Appliance. We're local like you. A new report from the United nations has declared what it describes as the dawn of an era of global water bankruptcy. The report defines this as a situation when long term water uses and pollution have exceeded renewable inflows of water and key parts of the water system can no longer be brought back to previous supply levels. The study's lead author is Kaveh Madani, Director of the UN Universities Institute for Water, Environment and Health, also known as the UN's think tank on water. He's been speaking to Ansoi.
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Kaveh Madani
By looking at trends of changes in water storage, we've concluded that we are seeing more and more basins around the world that are showing symptoms of significant over consumption and in many cases also irreversibility of the damages to the ecosystem. So when we say the globe is water bankrupt, the planet is water bankrupt, we don't mean that the whole world or every country, every basin, every aquifer is water bankrupt. But we mean that this is an era where we are seeing more and more systems getting into the post crisis situation. Water pollution problems are becoming chronic. They're no longer anomaly or deviation from a normal and these are permanent problems. But we should worry about them because in an interconnected world where we are interconnected not only through the climate system, but also through trades, food trades, trades of different goods and supply chains in addition to economics, geopolitics, migration and other issues, the whole global risk landscape has been impacted and this can have major consequences for the world.
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Ankur Desai
What are the biggest factors behind this global water bankruptcy?
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Kaveh Madani
On one side we have climate change that is resulting in declining water levels in many other places. But at the same time, on the other hand, we have increased water consumption because of course increased population, but the demand, increased demand for food, energy, drinking water industrialization, now data centers on top of all these things. So we continue to consume more and more, we continue to grow more food and we continue to expand. On the other hand, we are facing declining water resources. So this has worked in a way that like you know, that we took more and more water out of the system. We withdrew more water first from our checking account. That's surface water, the water that gets renewed through precipitation every year. Then we went to our savings account, our groundwater, we drained that one. Now we have a lot of stakeholders out there. We took more and more loans from the nature. We kind of stole even the share of the environment, the silent stakeholder. And as a result we are now seeing that there are major ecosystem damages. Our wetlands are dry, our reservoirs are declining, water level is dropping and we see a lot of symptoms. Sinkholes around the world, land subsidence in different parts of the world, desertification, sand and dust storms, wildfires, and all different manifestations of water bankruptcy. One thing that the report also tells us is that it's not only about quantity. Water bankruptcy is also about quality. In certain parts of the world we have water on paper. Water is available in terms of. It's so bad that it cannot be used properly.
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Ankur Desai
Kaveh Madani Speaking to Ansoi, phrases like district wide crackdown and non bailable offense aren't usually ones you'd associate with flying a kite. But for nearly 20 years, authorities in parts of India and Pakistan have been putting in tough measures to try and regulate kite flying after a series of deaths. Now ahead of the spring festival Basant in Pakistan, authorities in the city of Lahore have launched a new safety campaign. A global affairs correspondent, Ambaras Nethirajan was an enthusiastic kite flyer as a child. He told me more this used to.
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Ambaras Nethirajan
Be a very popular sport before the advent of these, you know, smartphones. When people really spend time out in.
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Ankur Desai
The open, people actually had a life.
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Ambaras Nethirajan
Yeah, people had a life. Yeah. So people usually fly kites and they became more advanced with the technology with a lot of colorful kites with the big strings and the rolls which carry the strings.
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Ankur Desai
It's very competitive as well.
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Ambaras Nethirajan
Also very competitive. You know when we used to do that, we used to try to cut down the neighbor's kites or your friend's kites. That used to be a competition. Now this has got another dimension to it. To make the string stronger then people especially, you know, in Pakistan and in India, they will coat the string with glass coated strings or metal strings. Sometimes when these cut strings, when they go fly across the roads, they will catch the unsuspecting motorcyclists, especially, you know, people going on the motorcyclists because they're going at a speed and then the strings come and go around the neck and then cause injury, sometimes even death. And that's why the authorities banned this sport. In fact, one senior Pakistani minister called it as a blood sport. And then so they banned it 20 years ago. And then despite the ban, people used to do this because you can't send police to every nook and corner of massive city like Lahore. People used to fly kites. So that was. The ban was lifted late last year. But then the government also put in a lot of safety measures and rules.
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Ankur Desai
Yeah, what are they? What are some of these new like.
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Ambaras Nethirajan
One of them is like having a rod, like an arch from the front of the bike up to the back so that the strings do not come directly and hit the motorbikers. And also the sellers will have to register themselves. There will be a QR code so it will link you back to the seller's identity. The selling will be only from the first week of, from the 1st of February for a week because the festival is from 6th and 7th, 8th of Feb and children under the age of 18, they are not allowed to fly kites. And if you have any metal coated strings then you will face a prison term. And also the authorities are encouraging educational institutions to provide their buses so that people can use buses that time rather than using two wheelers, motorbikes so that they can be safe. So these are some of the measures they are introducing. But it is a very popular festival, the springtime and the arrival of spring. So people are looking forward to it because the ban has been lifted after a period of 20 years.
- [23:30]
Ankur Desai
Ambrasil Ethirajan now, whether it's creating violent and gory content or depicting self harm, there are things most parents would probably agree they don't want their children using AI for. But stopping it happening is proving to be a big problem for the likes of ChatGPT. The chatbots creators have started rolling out their latest tool to try and solve it. The newsroom's Wool Chalk follows AI stories for us and has been looking over this one.
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Wool Chalk
I mean if people don't use ChatGPT, I think it can be quite easy to kind of shrug these stories off. But the app says it's approaching around a billion users to take just one bit of research out of the U.S. 86% of the school students that a charity spoke to said they're using AI. So clearly this is the thing that particularly younger people are integrating into their everyday lives. But as you said, keeping it safe for under 18s hasn't always been easy. And perhaps kind of the biggest, most explosive, shocking cases is the lawsuits that Chat GPT are facing alleging that it encouraged people, including teenagers, to take their own lives. Now, OpenAI ChatGPT's creator denies this and these cases are still going through the courts as well. The company has also repeatedly spoken about the lengths it goes to to keep young people safe. And that brings us to today. So open AI chat GPT's creators have started rolling out this new age verification tool. So historically and at the moment, users provide their age. You just simply tell it, you tell it how old you are, it believes you and then you can use it. Yeah, now Chat GPT says it's going to start monitoring users and seeing if it can use other clues. So either things to do of your account or how you're using it to work out your age. And if it suspects that you are then under 18, it will put extra safeguards in place. And if you are actually an adult and you're told you're under 18 because of how you're using it, you can then use a safety, a selfie or some ID to prove your age and get your account back.
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Ankur Desai
Okay then, with something that thinks like AI, how easy is it then to restrict?
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Wool Chalk
Well, this is the endless battle that chatgpt faces between freedom of expression and safety. So you listed a couple of them before. But the things that Chat GPT says it will restrict if it thinks you're under 18, a graphic violence, viral challenges that could encourage risk, risky behavior, sexual, romantic or violent role play, depictions of self harm, and content that promotes things like body shaming. Now these are things that some people would say it's not healthy for anyone to be engaging with AI about, but that's maybe slightly short sighted because people are using AI for nuanced things to write fiction, you know, and if you put too many restrictions in, it can start misinterpreting perfectly innocent requests. You know, right at the a chapter about a fight or something. Yeah, as you doing violent content and therefore blocking it. So this is the battle Chat GPT has to strike, right? On one hand, freedom of expression, let people use their tool as freely as possible. On the other hand, stopping it, feeding dangerous information to vulnerable people. They would say they're already doing this. They would say this tool is further evidence of that. But I think it needs to be rolled out for a bit before we can see how well it actually works.
- [26:41]
Ankur Desai
The newsrooms will chalk reporting and that's all from us for now. But there will be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later. If you want to comment on this episode or the topics covered in it, you can send us an email. The address is globalpodcastbc.co.uk and you can also find us on XBCWorldService and you can use the hashtag globalnewspod. This edition was mixed by Jonathan Greer and the producer was Charles Sanctuary. The editor is Karen Martin and I'm Ankur Desai. Until next time, goodbye.