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Ukraine welcomes natural resources deal with US
00:28:15
Kyiv and Washington commit to sharing profits from Ukraine's mineral and energy reserves
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- [00:00]
Valerie Sanderson
This is the global news podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Valerie Sanderson and at 1300 hours GMT on Thursday the 1st of May. These are our main stories. Ukraine says a deal on natural resources signed with the United States is an important milestone which will boost the country's economy and its security. Protests in Israel as army reservists demand an end to the war in Gaza and a release of hostages. Authorities in Turkey close transport hubs and make dozens of arrests ahead of possible Mayday protests. How do you integrate former left wing revolutionaries into society? We're in Colombia to find out. Also in this podcast. This country is ours.
- [00:48]
Kamala Harris
It doesn't belong to whoever is in the White House.
- [00:53]
Valerie Sanderson
She's back. Kamala Harris makes her first high profile speech since losing the US Presidential election after months of political wrangling. Washington and Kyiv have signed a deal to share profits from the future sale of Ukraine's mineral and energy reserves. The aim of the deal is to provide an incentive to the US to continue to invest in Ukraine's defense and reconstruction. The US Insists it shows a commitment to long term peace and Ukraine's foreign minister said it would strengthen the country's economy and its security. Lisa Jasko is a member of Parliament from Ukraine's governing Servant of the People party. This is her assessment of the agreement.
- [01:34]
Kamala Harris
There are good parts in it which includes that we are not giving up anything from Ukraine. We don't grant anyone exclusive rights to Ukrainian minerals, but that's a fair deal where United States are actually investing in a reconstruction fund and they will have 50, 50 access to the mineral. And what is important for us is that this deal is not actually a debt obligation to United States as it was discussed before. So for us that looks good at this point.
- [02:15]
Valerie Sanderson
Lisa Jasko, Our correspondent John Donnison is in Kyiv and he told me how the deal is being received there.
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John Donnison
Certainly I think that Ukrainian officials in the government feel that this is a better deal than the one that was on the table maybe a few months ago. You'll remember that awful slanging match between President Trump and President Zelensky in the Oval Office. When we thought this deal was going to be signed, then it didn't happen. It all went pear shaped. But I think the deal that has been offered now is better for Ukraine. And I say that because you remember that President Trump in the past was talking about this all being about payback. It was about Ukraine having to pay back the billions of dollars that the US has contributed in terms of military assistance over the past three Years. Well, now that isn't going to happen. Under this plan, they're going to set up this joint investment fund. America will get access to Ukraine's natural resources, but the money will go towards paying for future military assistance from the United States and also for reconstruction. So I think they're going to be much happier in Kyiv this morning than they are at the Kremlin.
- [03:29]
Valerie Sanderson
But it doesn't offer, does it, the security guarantees that Ukraine originally wanted?
- [03:35]
John Donnison
It doesn't offer them explicitly. However, I think implicit is an understanding that if the United States has more financial interests in Ukraine, it has a bigger stake in the country over the long term. And this is a deal that is for decades, really, then it is going to want to protect those interests. And I think the bigger prize for Ukraine is not this deal, it's the broader peace deal that they're hoping to get with the Russians. And I think this brings Ukraine closer to the United States States after some testy relations, frankly, in recent months. And their feeling is that if they've got a better relationship with President Trump's White House, it will encourage the White House to put more pressure on the Russians, get concessions to them in those peace talks, even when they happen. We've heard much more critical language from American officials towards Russia. I mean, just from the Treasury Secretary yesterday, talking about this being a clear signal that Russia needed to stop this cruel and senseless war and that America had a stake in a sovereign Ukraine and actually just the term they use for the war, talking about Russia's full scale invasion. Well, normally the Trump administration talks about a conflict which Kyiv bears some responsibility for. The language seems to have changed and I think that will cause concern in Moscow.
- [05:12]
Valerie Sanderson
But meanwhile, Russia is continuing to attack Ukraine, isn't it, as this is all going on?
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John Donnison
Yes, literally as this deal was being signed in Washington at 1:00 in the morning last night, we were up on the roof of our hotel and we could see explosions in the distance just outside Kyiv, quite close to a big power station. We saw anti aircraft fire going up and the sirens going off. And there were attacks overnight in the east, in the city of Odessa on the Black Sea. So as I say, this is a business deal, it's an energy deal, resources deal, it's not a peace deal. And the fighting goes on.
- [05:47]
Valerie Sanderson
John Donnison in Kyiv. In Israel, opposition to the war in Gaza is growing. In recent weeks, thousands of reservists from all branches of the military have signed letters demanding that Israel stop fighting and concentrate instead on on reaching a deal to bring back the remaining hostages being held by Hamas. The government of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says that only by keeping up military pressure can the hostages be brought home. Our diplomatic correspondent Paul Adams has met some of those involved in the latest demonstrations.
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Paul Adams
The war grinds on. It's been weeks since Israel broke the ceasefire, since sending troops back into combat 18 months ago, few Israelis doubted the war's logic. Now more and more are saying it's gone on long enough.
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Kamala Harris
Israel is going to a very bad place.
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Paul Adams
Danny Yatom is a former head of Israel's spy agency Mossad.
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Kamala Harris
We understand since long time that what bothers mainly Netanyahu is his own interests. And in the list of priorities, his interests and the interest of having the government stable are the first ones and not the hostages.
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Paul Adams
Some people will say inevitably, oh, they're just the usual suspects. They never liked Netanyahu. They were trying to get rid of him before the war. But you are politically motivated.
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Kamala Harris
I signed my name not because of any political reason, but because of a national reason. I am highly concerned that my country is going to lose its way.
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Paul Adams
Israel relies heavily on reservists to fight its wars. Hundreds of thousands answering the call after October 7th, eager to serve. But now more and more are refusing and signing public letters of protest. Like Yoav, who served in Gaza last summer. It's not his real name. He. He's asked us to protect his identity and his words are read by a BBC producer.
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Kamala Harris
I had the feeling that I needed to go to help my brothers and sisters. I had the feeling that what we were doing there was maybe more of the same, but it wasn't so cynical. I believed that I was doing something good. Complicated, but good. But now I don't sit in the same way anymore.
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Paul Adams
In Tel Aviv, a familiar weekly spectacle, streets regularly shut down by those who oppose the war. So it's Saturday night in Tel Aviv when anti war protesters take over the streets and briefly bring traffic to a standstill. These people with their flags, their bullhorns and their placards have long accused the Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, of prolonging the war to pander to his far right cabinet colleagues, without whose support his political career would probably end. There's a lady here carrying a poster which says the Netanyahu government is using the hostages as a human shield. Doron Meinrath is here handing out stickers urging reservists to refuse if asked to go back to Gaza. He's a former colonel in the armored corps, troubled by Israel's conduct in Gaza from the beginning, but especially since the ceasefire collapsed in March, the second time.
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Kamala Harris
That they begin the war after the ceasefire. I think most of the people understand this is totally political, okay? It's for bringing Bengal back to the government to prevent any chance to election. And also they understand that all the kidnappers are going to die because of it.
- [09:31]
Paul Adams
Benjamin Netanyahu seems undaunted, speaking of his determination to defeat Hamas during a visit to troops in Gaza last month. Military pressure, he says, the best way to bring the hostages home. But with letters of protest accumulating and reserve attendance dropping week by week, pressure is mounting on the Prime Minister to find another way.
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Valerie Sanderson
Paul Adams reporting. And staying in Israel, firefighters say they've been battling the country's worst ever blaze. The Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu has declared a national emergency. Some towns have been evacuated and people have been forbidden from lighting barbecues or any other flames. I spoke to our correspondent in Jerusalem, Yoran Nel.
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Kamala Harris
Well, these firefighting teams are continuing to operate in six main areas outside of Jerusalem, battling against the flames, according to the Fire and Rescue Service. And several towns were evacuated late yesterday. They remain empty and close to 3,000 acres are said to have been burned. I mean, the air quality here in Jerusalem remains poor, but the weather conditions have improved. They're now allowing firefighting planes to operate. And Israel requested more of these from some of its neighbors, Cyprus, Italy, Greece. So we're expecting some to arrive in the course of the day. But many public events for Israel's Independence Day, because this is a national holiday, usually a day of celebration for Israelis, those have largely been cancelled.
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Valerie Sanderson
You're in Jerusalem. How big a threat is it to the city?
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Kamala Harris
I mean, I think the threat to Jerusalem itself has subsided. The main Road, Route 1 from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv, has now reopened after we saw some very dramatic scenes there last night. People abandoning their cars and the road being closed up. You have more than 150 firefighting teams still working on this. They're going around the clock. But still, this is a national emergency, according to the Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. He said that what happened was a deadly combination of strong winds and dryness really fanning these wildfires. I mean, they will look into this further, but arson is suspected in some cases also negligence in terms of land management, because Israel has become increasingly prone to wildfires. And inevitably, if you look through some of the media reports today, they're questioning, you know, the state's management of the fire service, the amount of funding that it gets. And there are lots of observations that as climate change takes hold and we're likely to get more periods of intense heat, intense dryness, they're going to become longer. And, you know, then sometimes these extreme rain that comes as well that makes the wild brush really grow. This is only going to increase the fire hazard.
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Valerie Sanderson
And are lots of people on the move? I mean, is it your sense people are frightened and trying to get away from the fires?
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Kamala Harris
Definitely. We saw that last night. Now it's calmed down somewhat. I mean, these were scenes that were very dramatic shown on television at the end of Israel's Memorial Day. Usually you would have the TVs showing people in military cemeteries remembering the fallen. And instead, you know, the scenes switched to showing people literally abandoning their cars on this main highway and running for safety. Now the situation does seem to be much more under control.
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Valerie Sanderson
Yolande Nel in Jerusalem, the former US Vice President Kamala Harris has used her first high profile speech since leaving office to criticize President Trump. Ms. Harris has warned that his presidency has placed the country at risk of a constitutional crisis and accused him of seeking to cow the nation through fear.
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Kamala Harris
Those who try to incite fear are most effective when they divide and conquer, when they separate the herd, when they try to make everyone think they are alone. But in the face of crisis, the lesson is don't, don't scatter.
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Valerie Sanderson
This country is ours.
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Kamala Harris
It doesn't belong to whoever is in the White House. It belongs to you. It belongs to us. It belongs to we the people.
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Valerie Sanderson
Kamala Harris, still to come in this.
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Bob Goodson
Podcast, not a single person, myself included, were thinking that what they were doing might one day be significant.
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Valerie Sanderson
It's used by texters billions of times a day. But how did inventors come up with the like button? Now to Australia and the third day of the trial of a woman who's accused of murdering three elderly people, all related to her estranged husband by feeding them a beef Wellington containing poisonous mushrooms. Erin Patterson says the deaths were a terrible accident. Her husband, Simon Patterson, has told a court their relationship became toxic in the year before the incident and that he'd been invited to the meal but dropped out at the last minute. Our correspondent Katie Watson has the latest from the courthouse in Morwell in the state of Victoria.
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Katie Watson
We heard Simon Patterson talk about his relationship with Aaron Patterson, saying that she was intelligent, that it was something that attracted him to her in the first place, her wit and her humor. He also talked about how rare it was to invite people to the House, that after their separation in 2015, there'd be no family wide gatherings At Erin's place. Now he, as you said, he had declined an invitation to this meal. Now, this meal was organized because Erin Patterson had wanted to tell family about a medical diagnosis that turns out that she had told the family that she had cancer and that had that diagnosis actually been alleged to have been a lie, Both prosecution and the defense have admitted that this was a lie made by Aaron Patterson. So he said he was uncomfortable with going and sent a text message to that effect the night before the lunch. And the court was shown this text exchange saying that she was very disappointed. She'd spent many hours preparing lunch and spent a small fortune on beef I fillet to make the beef Wellingtons because she wanted to make it a special meal. We also heard about the condition of the his parents and his aunt and uncle in the hours after the lunch that Ian Wilkinson, his uncle, had appeared gray and spooked. He was struggling and he became. Simon Patterson became quite emotional in court when he detailed the condition of his father, saying that in hospital he was lying on his side, he was hunched and he was struggling to speak. On Friday, he'll continue being cross examined. And this trial is expected to last about six months, weeks.
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Valerie Sanderson
And when are we expected to hear from Erin Patterson herself?
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Katie Watson
There's no information on that. I think the fact that there was such an important witness today was certainly garnered a lot of attention. I mean, this trial has been hugely watched here in Australia and beyond. In fact, the judge told the jury when they were chosen to try and cast that out of their minds, that he understood that many people might have come across this trial, that they were not to read newspapers, not to turn on the television and watch anything to do with this trial because he needed them to focus on the evidence in front of them.
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Valerie Sanderson
Katie Watson More than eight years have passed since the Colombian government signed a peace agreement with the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, the farc, the largest left wing guerrilla group in Latin America. Thousands of FARC fighters came out of their jungle and mountain hideouts, handed in their weapons and returned to civilian life. The state has tried to help them reintegr into the workforce, to find jobs and to start businesses. So how has that process gone? Gideon Long has been to Colombia to find out.
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Gideon Long
It's early morning here in Colombia's third largest city, Cali, in the southwest of the country. We're just heading out of town now to visit a beekeeping project in the hills above the city. But this is no ordinary project. First of all, all of the people working on it are women. And secondly, they're all former members of the farc. I'm here to meet four of the women. As we pull up, I can't help noticing they brought security guys along with them, too. We drive on a little further and then leave our cars by the side of a country road, and we start walking into a thick forest. We walked a couple of hundred meters off the road now, and we've come to a little clearing where there's about 20 beehives. I speak to one of the women, Annemillena cortes. She was 19 when she joined the FARC. She was a nurse. And in her part of Colombia, the guerrillas were in fierce battles with another rebel group, the ELN. Annemielena treated wounded FARC fighters and spent the next nine years with the guerrillas. But in 2014, the Colombian army caught up with her unit, and she was detained. She spent three years in jail before being released in 2017 as part of the peace process.
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Kamala Harris
When I left jail, I went to the government demobilization camp, but I didn't want to be there, so I went home. I wanted to see my family.
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John Donnison
It had been so, so long.
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Kamala Harris
I met the man who's now my husband, and we came here to work on a farm. That was when I first heard that the government could help us set up our own project. They held a meeting, and this cooperative grew out of that meeting.
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Gideon Long
The women who run this project have dressed me up in a full beekeeper's outfit, complete with a face visor covered from head to toe. And we're going to go in and look at the main beehives.
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Kamala Harris
Now.
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Gideon Long
The beehive consistent consists of around 10 panels which can be lifted out of the hive. And millenary is just lifting them out now. And each time she does, thousands of bees just come rushing out, absolutely swarming around us. They're covering my recorder and microphone. This beekeeping cooperative is one of thousands of projects that former members of the FARC have set up with help from the state since the peace deal was signed. But they are controversial, and there's been a backlash against the former guerrillas. The FARC killed thousands of people during its war with the state. It kidnapped and extorted thousands more. It forcibly recruited children and was heavily involved in the drugs trade. Many Colombians question why the state is helping former rebels set up businesses, but it isn't subsidizing other ordinary Colombians who never took up arms to do the same. Jimena Ochoa has a long history with the FARC. The group kidnapped her mother in 1990 and only released her for A ransom. For years, Jimenez family cattle ranchers in rural Colomb were harassed by the group. These days, Ximena is the president of an association of victims of Colombia's left wing rebels. Jimena Part of the peace agreement that was signed in 2016 involved the state helping and financing projects run by former members of the farc. What's your view on those projects?
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Kamala Harris
Those projects suffer from a problem which comes from a lack of understanding of the farc. The government of Juan Manuel Santos saw the FARC as a monolithic organization. It thought the leaders had the same objectives as the rank and file members. That was a big mistake. The leadership of the FARC were criminals. I don't know where this idea comes from that someone who is a criminal ceases to be a criminal just because they sign a piece of paper.
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Gideon Long
So you're talking there about the senior members of the farc, but do you accept that there were also junior members of the FARC who did need help to reintegrate themselves into civilian life?
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Kamala Harris
They've had more economic help than the victims because the state gave them a salary and it gave them money to start businesses. The vast majority of the victims of the FARC in Colombia haven't been given that. The victimizers have had it easier than the victims.
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Valerie Sanderson
Jimena Ochoa, ending that report from Gideon Long. And you can hear Gideon's full report on the reintegration of the FARC guerrillas. Just search for business daily wherever you get your BBC podcasts. In Turkey, the authorities in Istanbul have closed metro stations and stopped buses and ferries from operating in a bid to prevent Mayday demonstrations against the government. Ahead of the holiday, police arrested 100 people allegedly planning to protest in Istanbul's central Taksim Square, where demonstrations have been banned since 2013. Our senior international correspondent Ola Guerin reports from Taksim Square. There is a small gathering taking place here now in the heart of Taksim Square. This trade union group was given permission to come here by the authorities, but speakers have been talking about how many restrictions they're facing. Many other groups wanted to come here today, but so far haven't been able. All around the square there is a ring of steel there. There are barricades in every direction. There are layers of police. There are police at all of the entrance roads to the square. And in parts of Istanbul today, there are restrictions on public transport. Some of the tram stops are closed, some of the roads are closed. The authorities are determined to prevent any kind of large scale protest taking place here in Tak and in Recent days, there have been dozens more arrests. Human rights activists say that this is part of a sustained crackdown by President Erdogan on free speech and on dissent. Oligarro We've all seen it. We click on it every single day as much as up to more than 7 billion times a day. I'm talking about the like button. That simple thumbs up symbol has become a feature in nearly all our online interactions on our social media platforms. But it's only been around for some 20 years. According to a new book on the subject, the like button has had a far reaching impact on so much of our lives, on human behavior, business, and even on our culture. Well, the writer Bob Goodson was there from the time this omnipresent button was invented for social media. He's the co author of like the Button that changed Everything.
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Bob Goodson
The like button, as it came to be known and now it's, you know, many emotional reactions had its origins in the early days of Web 2.0. So in the early 2000s. And the little part that I played in it is that I was a product manager at a company called Yelp and we were trying to find ways to make it easier to show which reviews you liked of local businesses. And we put three buttons on the content, useful, funny, cool, and allowed you to interact with them without leaving the webpage or refreshing the page. And back then one of the designs that I came up with was just the idea of a thumbs up and like, which we didn't actually use at the time. And, and so it's been interesting to see how different companies and sites played with different ideas for this, but the thumb emerged as the winner. In the book we try to take more of a role of observation than evaluation and really chronicle the events, the reactions and how this thing came to be. For its lessons in teaching us how technology really gets developed through many thousands of hands and a sort of evolutionary process. We do have a chapter that we call Unintended Consequences where we look at the perceived negative consequences of this interaction element, which include addictive qualities that can come about from liking. And we explore how that happens from a neuroscience standpoint, from a psychology standpoint, and hopefully just better awareness in the public of how these things come to be and how they affect us is useful for people to make more informed decisions.
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Kamala Harris
Did you think back then that it.
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Katie Watson
Would have this far reaching impact?
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Bob Goodson
One of the things that was interesting in interviewing many people that made contributions to this, but we interviewed the founders of LinkedIn and YouTube, for example, among many others, is that everyone we spoke to who made a contribution to its evolution, was really trying to solve that day's design problem in making small adjustment to something that had come before. And in so doing, you know, made these steps towards what the, you know, the feature has become and becoming the most used interface element ever designed. You know, with more than 7 billion times a day, it's now, it's now clicked and tapped. And yeah, it was so consistent that everybody was focused on that day's design challenge and the specific scenario that their company was, was trying to tune and optimize and not a single person, myself included, were thinking that what they were doing might one day be significant.
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Valerie Sanderson
Bob Goodson. And that's it from us for now. But there'll be a new edition of the Global News Podcast later. If you want to comment on this podcast of the topics covered in it, send us an email. The address is globalpodcastbc.co.uk. you can also find us on X@BBC World Service. Use the hashtag globalnewspot. This edition was mixed by Chris Hansen. The producer was David Lewis. The editor, as ever, is Karen Martin. I'm Valerie Sanderson. Until next time.
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Kamala Harris
Bye.