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- [00:19]
Nadia Mari
Hello and welcome to Global Sanctuary for Elephants podcast. Global Rumblings. Global Sanctuary for Elephants, or GSE for short, is a non profit organization with a mission to create vast, safe spaces for captive elephants where they are able to heal physically and emotionally, often from very traumatic pasts. I'm your host, Nadia Mari, and I'll be taking you to the lush jungle of the Mato Grosso region in central Brazil, home of GSE's initial project, Elephant Sanctuary. Brazil, currently home to five female Asian elephants, lovingly referred to as the Girls. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to Global Rumblings. This is in fact the final episode for 2024. So let's head over to Brazil to see how Kat and Scott will celebrate New Year's Eve. Hi, you two, how are you?
- [01:11]
Scott
Hey, Nadia.
- [01:11]
Kat
What's New Year's Eve, Nadia?
- [01:14]
Scott
We'll be working every other day.
- [01:18]
Nadia Mari
Yeah, I checked. It's a Tuesday, so I thought, okay, elephant feeding and everything. And then, I don't know, lights out. Well, the sun. Sun goes down and then it's lights out, at least from nature. And then I thought I sort of env you on the patio with a glass of wine, but probably you'll fall asleep before New Year's Eve, huh? Before midnight?
- [01:36]
Kat
I will. Cat won't, that's for sure. No, I'll be up. As far as all those holidays go, it normally ends up being slightly less. Less team members here, fewer team members here. So we end up doing a little bit more and having a little bit more fun, actually making a little bit light and easy day and a little bit of celebration throughout the day.
- [01:59]
Scott
But I mean, whenever you work with animals, holidays don't really exist in the same way. You know, they still have to eat, they still need care. We have animals that require medical care, but we do try to minimize the team so more people can have off than normal and we just all do.
- [02:15]
Kat
Extra work, which in some ways is a little bit of a holiday anyway because you have less people to manage. No offense to our team, we have an amazing team. But when you have, you know, five or six fewer people to, to organize and to keep track of and to worry about, then actually a little bit of a reprieve. So we take those holidays.
- [02:35]
Nadia Mari
So talking about celebrating and celebrating New Year's Eve, this podcast does come out on New Year's Eve. Obviously we can't say happy New Year yet because it's not that I'm personally celebrating. It'll be winter solstice soon.
- [02:48]
Kat
Yay.
- [02:49]
Nadia Mari
And the days will get longer and sunnier and lighter. But, but also another thing to celebrate is that you have. I saw a photo today on your social media post, or was it yesterday? I don't know what day of the day it is. You actually physically holding the permit papers for Kenya and Pupi in your hands. So today we are going to take a break from Pochangiji and talk about your new elephants who will be coming hopefully very soon in the new year. Kenya and Pupi to female African elephants in Argentina in two different locations. So yeah, maybe let's start with Kenya at Mendoza. That's where Pocha and Gigi came from in Argentina. What can you tell us about her and what do you know about her?
- [03:34]
Kat
First off, that photo really did happen, believe it or not. For those that may have photoshopped, you know, false papers that we really do have the papers in hand after all these years. Yeah, pretty exciting moment. There's now full fledged logistic mode in Argentina, getting everything else organized. It's hard to move forward with everything else because everything, everything has time constraints on it. So now that the permits are actually in hand, everything else in Argentina is.
- [04:01]
Scott
Rolling forward because they already had export permits from cites and those are only six months. And we had to get the import CITES permits, which are only six months. And then we have to get permits for crates which we've already done and they're on their way. And everything has 8 million steps and strict time limits. So it's trying to find a way to make all of these things happen in this tiny little box.
- [04:26]
Kat
Yep. And now we do have the, the import. It's material. You know, you're importing material goods, you know, you need to get, you know, internal material. You know, anything that is going across the border has to be registered that is going across the border. And you know, since it is a temporary import, you know, so you don't get taxed going in and taxed coming back. It's just showing a temporary import of material.
- [04:48]
Scott
And the first time we did it, they wanted weights and measurements of everything we sent. So we send boxes that have straps and, you know, hammers and different things that we're going to need. Not elephant related but for the trip. And there's probably four containers full of stuff and everything needed a weight, a description, sizes. I mean, it was really detailed, absolutely absurd.
- [05:14]
Kat
And this time they said, no, just give us the crate. So we're sending all the other goods also. But they just said listed in one item. Since we've already been through this before and everybody that's involved are the same folks that have been involved before. So it's making it a little bit easier. Everything's getting expedited. So, yeah, all that is coming into place. So on to Kenya. What do we know about Kenya?
- [05:34]
Scott
She's cute and naughty.
- [05:38]
Kat
You know, she's. She's a little spunky. She's spunky, but she's actually really sharp and sweet. And I think she's really gentle. She loves the attention she likes, like most beings. She likes being seen, she likes being heard. She likes being recognized. And I think that the more you see her, more you understand her, the more comfortable she is and the less naughty she is.
- [06:03]
Scott
Yeah, she's super smart. She. When Carissa was going there to work with Pocha and Gigi, the first time she went, the training wall was supposed to be. Wasn't done, so she couldn't really do anything with them, but she could work with Kenya because her gait was done and she's pretty good. So she worked with her, you know, for trunk wash and foot present and all of those things, and she was great. I mean, she's super responsive. She's, you know, she's on it. She can figure out what it is you're asking for, and she's happy to give it to you. She hasn't really had anybody working with her since we've had somebody there working with her. The staff just isn't really capable. Oh, I don't know. What is an appropriate word to say.
- [06:48]
Kat
Yeah, I don't know.
- [06:49]
Scott
They just don't have the training to really do anything with elephants aside from give them their food and clean up after them and not their fault. I mean, there's just nobody there. And when Carissa was there, she was trying to teach them a few things. But there's. I mean, training is so specific. I mean, it's so easy to train bad behaviors and make already learned behaviors worse. And, I mean, there's a million different ways that training can go wrong. And they just really weren't grasping the concepts the way they need to to move forward. But I don't even think they tried doing anything with it.
- [07:30]
Kat
Yeah, I don't think they really understand a lot of it. You know, looking at Kenya when they were trying to do blood work from Kenya. Kenya is perfect. I mean, she is. So she positions well. She's very patient. She's there for a long time. And they tried and they weren't successful. And they tried and they were successful, and they tried and weren't successful. And then she walks away. So they don't give her any reinforcement because she walked away. She gave you five minutes, you know, doesn't she get something in return? And when she stopped feeling that appreciation for what she did give, even though the blood draw wasn't successful, it wasn't her fault. You know, it was the technician who was doing it. But the less appreciative she felt of her cooperation, the less she continued to cooperate.
- [08:12]
Scott
Yeah, at this point, well, he just got back. We had Marcos, one of our caregivers, go down to Mendoza. I just had to think, is it down? It is down to Mendoza to work with her because they weren't able to get blood draw from her. And again, there's no one there. So he had worked at Buenos Aires with their elephants. So he knows Mara Cookie Poopy, and he went down there to work on her. It was initially supposed to be four weeks, and they still weren't able to get blood draw. So then foundation Franz Weber sent one of their vets who also used to work at Buenos Aires, and she went down to work with Marcos at the same time to try to see if they could get blood draw. And it wasn't enough time to get her comfortable enough. She got really. While no one was there, she became uncomfortable with having two people work with her at the same time. And generally for blood draw, you want somebody holding her nose and somebody doing the poking. You know, it's a two people job. But something happened between when Charis was there and when we just sent Marcos there that she's not comfortable having two people working on her at the same time. She's great with Marcos. She will sit there and he can go behind her ear and feel around and fake poke and do pinch and do all this stuff and she stays and she's perfect. But when you introduce the second person, a lot of times she was just walking away. I mean, it's not even like you couldn't do some of this stuff. As soon as somebody approached or her one vet that she tried to eat.
- [09:51]
Kat
Instead, she was not happy with him.
- [09:54]
Scott
So two weeks was enough time. Joanna, the vet is still there. Marcos is back here. She's going to continue working with Kenya. And then we'll kind of have to see how it plays out. Whether we have to try to get someone else from the Buenos Aires Zoo, whether Marcos has to go back, whether we send Trish or one of us. I mean, we don't know at this point. We're just trying to kind of gauge how Kenya's feeling with things and how she's moving forward and where her comfort lies.
- [10:25]
Kat
And, yeah, at the same time, even though it's a little bit of a delay that we wish we wouldn't have had, you know, if they would have been able to get blood to work on schedule, she could have almost been here, I know, in the next couple of days. But because of this delay, it's going to cause a little bit of a delay. But on the other side of that is going into this transfer, which Joanna may or may not be involved with, I'm not sure yet. Marcos might be there as well. You know, it gives her a little bit of comfort with new team members.
- [10:53]
Nadia Mari
Yeah.
- [10:53]
Kat
You know, and it gives those team members a better chance to see who she is. So the reporting we're getting about her, how she is and what she responds to and building those relationships, it's been really positive. I think it's been a positive for us to get a better idea for Kenya and see her in a little bit different light just because that we're getting different types of videos, different types of reports. And she is incredibly, as Kadori said, really smart, really tolerant, very accepting of everything that's going on. And I just can't wait to let her just, you know, without sounding too cheesy, let her be free, you know, let her just explore life in a different way. I mean, her enclosure is much larger than what Poche and Gijamina had, substantially larger than Potenjima.
- [11:35]
Scott
You can at least see outside of it.
- [11:37]
Kat
She has actually dirt in her floor.
- [11:39]
Scott
You know, I mean, it's pretty much rock. She can't get much of the dirt up.
- [11:43]
Kat
Yeah, but, you know, she can reach across and get some tree branches. And you. Can you trust the moat like you see in so many zoos with a moat, you know, standing on the edge of the moat, reaching to get branches, but at the same time, you get to see that silly, quirky, silly side. And there's a few videos when Marcos comes in in the morning and he says, hey, beautiful. And she gets all rumbly and, you know, cheeky and really cute. So it's been really, really lovely to see that side of her as well and get to.
- [12:06]
Nadia Mari
And do you know how old she is? Anything else about her history? How long has she been at the zoo? Was she always solitary as an African? Because obviously the other elephants are Asian.
- [12:18]
Kat
Some of those questions require memory that I don't have. Okay, no brain today, but no, no brain, period. I have long said I do not have that memory of an elephant. So maybe Kat has the numbers. I will say that yes. She's been alone the whole time she's been at the zoo. She's been alone.
- [12:34]
Scott
She's been there since 1985 and she was supposed to be, as far as I know, she was younger when she got there.
- [12:43]
Kat
Yeah, she was, yeah.
- [12:46]
Scott
She's a few years old, yeah. Oh, wow.
- [12:49]
Kat
I don't remember what it says on.
- [12:50]
Scott
Her importation permits, which is older for an African. I mean, we have. Our girls, except for Gijimina, are all 50 and over. We have several that are 60 and over. African elephants in captivity don't tend to live that long. Their life expectancy is shorter than Asian elephants in captivity. So unfortunately for her, she's already. Would be considered everything over 41 for Africans is already grandma. But yeah, especially even though it's not, you know, normally in the wild they can live 70, 80, but they're, they're really. I don't mean, I don't want to say this in a negative way because it's one of the funnest things about them. They're really high strung, their emotions are really strong. They're really emotion forward. They're really reactionary versus processing. And it just seems like captivity doesn't really agree with them as much as it does Asian elephants. Although clearly it doesn't work for either species.
- [13:52]
Kat
Yeah, it's long. There's so many, you know, the old wives tale of, you know, African elephants being more. African elephants being more aggressive than Asian elephants, but it's really not the case. Oh my God.
- [14:02]
Scott
I think they're more silly.
- [14:04]
Kat
Yeah. You know, in the moment, what they're doing and, you know, and that's part of that big expression, the big vocal, dramatic expression. But that high energy sometimes, you know, doesn't do them well in captivity to tolerate it as well as some of the Asians, I think. But yeah, I mean, she's not a, she's not a spring chicken, but she, overall, her health looks great.
- [14:22]
Scott
You know, that said her back feet look terrible and I was actually surprised at how bad they look. Marco started working with her front feet, but she doesn't do back presents, which they were going to start working with. But we're trying to focus on blood draw. But usually really when it's back feet are bad, front feet aren't. A lot of times it's sanitary, you know, from standing in their own urine and feces too much, blah, blah, blah. And African elephants tend to do better footwise in captivity. And if you look at where they're from, you know, you have Asians, high humidity Softer ground, blah, blah, blah. Africans, hotter temperatures, dry, really compact ground during a lot of the year. So it seems like their natural tendencies kind of affects how they do that way. And I think she has the worst African feet I've seen because they tend to be pretty good.
- [15:19]
Kat
And there's so much, you know, as I said a minute ago, overall, she looks pretty good. Her feet look like hell, but the rest of her looks good, but we don't know what's going on. Internal.
- [15:29]
Scott
And then she has issues when she urinates and defecates that looks that look like she is uncomfortable and whether that means she has bladder stones, a urinary tract infection, a GI issue going on. I mean, we don't know any of those things and they don't. There's no testing done on her. There's no anything. So, I mean, we don't really know what we're getting into.
- [15:54]
Nadia Mari
Care when she comes.
- [15:55]
Kat
Yeah, a lot of questions, unfortunately, when she comes, you know, we have to do what we always do is let's boost their system as much as we can, you know, boost their immune system as much as we can get to, you know, increase the feel good factor for her and, you know, hope for the best. Because there's so much that we just can't diagnose.
- [16:12]
Nadia Mari
Well, yeah, 40 years. Yeah, you talked about that last time. That you can't diagnose it. Not because you haven't got the tools. No, you can't diagnose it because these sort of diagnostic tools just don't exist for elephants because they're far too large. Before we lose track of time, I'm the time master as well as a podcast host. What about Pupi, then? Let's head over to Pupi, who's in Buenos Aires, Argentina, and also an African female. How old is she?
- [16:38]
Kat
She's about the same age. I think they're within a couple years of each other. I think she's late 30s, 38, 37. 38. I don't remember her exact age either, but just a couple years younger. Yeah, she's a little bit smaller. She is going to be a little bit more demure than Kenya. But I think for me, I don't know Pupi very well. I know her as the. She's kind of been in the shadow of Kuki for a long time. Kuki's been the bigger presence and a little bit more of a controlling factor of the two of them. And that's Kuki, of course, is the one we've already talked about who passed away tragically just a few weeks ago, but I'll be really interested to see. And we were already talking about this before, but even more so now, watching Pupi come into her own, you know, and how she's going to evolve as, you know, as an individual and as somebody who's not in the shadow of another.
- [17:28]
Scott
I mean, they arrived in Buenos Aires when they were three years old together.
- [17:33]
Nadia Mari
Oh, gosh.
- [17:33]
Scott
And they've been together ever since. So, you know, from what we were told, Kuki was always the dominant one, you know, and kind of controlled their relationship and controlled what happened when. So it's very different for Pupi to be by herself and not have that. Her caregivers say she's doing really well, that emotionally she seems very positive that she's doing some things and making some vocalizations that they've never heard from her before. And whether it's the extra attention and the extra empathy or feeling like she has more of a space to have a voice. Cause it's just her. It's impossible to know. But, I mean, she always came across as fairly insecure. I think she still will be. But, you know, sanctuary happens to be a great place for an elephant to be able to find themselves. When we first went to see Kooky and Poopy, at least the first time I went, I think he went before I did, they had talked about that they have a really aggressive relationship, and Kooky is aggressive towards her. And it goes back to that. We've talked about it before, the difference between Asians and Africans. You know, they see how passive Asians are, and they expect the same behavior from Africans. And it's like, she's not aggressive. She's an African elephant. It's very different.
- [18:57]
Kat
Substantially more physical.
- [18:59]
Scott
Sure. And they had. At the Sao Paulo Zoo, they had Teresita, who they couldn't do anything with when she got sick. And everybody there said, she's crazy. You know, she's super aggressive. You can't do anything with her. And they also had two Asian elephants. And it was, again, that thing of she's actually great. They had a specialist come in to work with her, and she was lovely. It was just that she's an African elephant, and they're so vastly different. So I don't know really what the dynamic between them was. I mean, Kooky was definitely the more dominant of the two. But, yeah, she's at the point right now where she's trying to figure out who she is without essentially somebody who's been like a sister to her for the past 30 years. So, I mean, that part's already new. And then she'll have to come to sanctuary and try and figure out what life is like when you can actually make your own choices and figure out your own path.
- [19:52]
Kat
She has a lot of support there, though. Yeah, they have a really good team supporting her. And I think.
- [19:57]
Scott
No, I think. Yeah, they've been. You know, of course, everybody was really upset when Kooky passed away. And, you know, a lot of times you read in articles when an elephant passes away, how hurt the staff is. And they never actually talk about the other elephants. Even when, like, a mother loses her calf, you know, they talk about the staff is devastated. It's like, okay, what about the elephant who just carried his baby for two years, you know, and is so attached. You know how emotionally maternal elephants are. I mean, but everybody was talking about. At that zoo, everybody was talking about Poopie. You know, it wasn't about how. And the staff was definitely devastated, but their first concern was Poopy. And it was really nice to see how everybody came together and all of the different things they were trying to do for her and with her to make sure that she felt like there was someone there since Kuki wasn't anymore.
- [20:54]
Nadia Mari
The circumstances under which Poopy is now arriving without Cookie, I was thinking before we started recording is just so different than, of course, anybody or everybody was anticipating, because Kenya, solitary, comes on her own, would have met up with then two elephants who are, as you said, cat like sisters. Now Kenya is coming on her own because she always was on her own, but Poopy is coming on her own because Cookie passed away. So, yeah, she's got her own things to deal with. Not only coming to a sanctuary, then still feeding the loss of Cookie, but then also meeting Kenya. So, yeah, it will be a really, really interesting time to see how everything goes between them.
- [21:31]
Kat
Sure. And then you have with Kenya, who hasn't seen another elephant in 40 years. Almost all those situations are always interesting to see how it's going to unfold. And you never know. You never know what's going to happen. But it'll be wonderful to see and hear them being crazy, wild, trumpeting, rumbly Africans knocking down trees and wreaking havoc and havoc in the pasture and doing their African elephant thing. They're so vastly different.
- [21:58]
Scott
I'll be curious to see what our supporters think with them. Even just basic introductions, because they are different. They do push on each other. They do trunk wrestle. They do trunk overhead. You know, they do all of these Things just because of the species difference. It. Again, I think if you have only seen Asians, it looks aggressive and it's not, it's just there, there's something. And we used to joke in Tennessee that I think both of us resonate more with Asian elephants. But when you are with African elephants, there is not a day that goes by that you are not laughing a lot at some point.
- [22:36]
Kat
They're so kooky, perfect and lovely and crazy. And it's actually really fun, you know, because if you, if you get silly with them, you know, they just go over the top. Crazy. It's so much fun, you know, just like being vocalization, being making stupid sounds and all the different things and they just, they just get into it even further. It's, it's a lot of fun. They're, they're a joy.
- [22:59]
Nadia Mari
Oh, sounds great. Sounds very. Like a very exciting time. So before we wrap up today, I'm, I'm. When you just mentioned the word supporters, will be interesting to see how they, how they react to the behaviors of African elephants. How do you think the. I mean, obviously you haven't got a crystal ball, but how do you think the other, your five Asian elephants will react to hearing suddenly a different species next door? Obviously they're not in the same yard. They have their own female African habitats. But hearing trumpets and vocalizations, would they be curious or.
- [23:34]
Kat
Oh, with certainty, yeah. I mean, if it's anything like Tennessee, I mean, they kind of all keyed off each other, you know, and when one was having a party, they may be just like, what is going on up there? But you know, they're going to recognize, you know, that it's a different species. And you know, do they know it's an African elephant or what it is? Who knows? But, you know, they're going to recognize that there's something out there. And, and, and with the joy that comes from those celebrations, it actually triggers the others to celebrate as well.
- [23:58]
Scott
I mean, you think Mara is going to know that? Poopies, of course.
- [24:03]
Nadia Mari
Yeah. She was together, huh?
- [24:04]
Scott
Yeah, yeah. I mean, they were together for 10 years before they were separated because of, of course, aggression on each other. Because going back to why you don't keep the two species together, one of the many reasons. But she should know for sure. She'll be able to smell her. And I'm sure as research has discovered, elephants have quote unquote names for each other and you know, they can understand. I'm sure she'll be able to hear all of the things in poopies vocalizations and vibrations that we don't pick up on at all.
- [24:38]
Kat
And smells.
- [24:39]
Scott
Sure.
- [24:39]
Kat
You know, those smells that travel a lot further than we think they do. So all that's going to be a factor. And again, going back to what we experienced before back in Tennessee, and, you know, we had days where elephants were really somber because of something going on on the other side of the habitat, without vocalizations. You know, they just knew. And we had other caregivers on the other side of the habitat, other side of the property would say, hey, what's going on out there? You know, all of our elephants are looking that way and really, really quiet. You know, so then we'd say, you know, we actually have somebody that's not doing well. And they knew. The caregivers knew it, because the way the elephants are responding to what was happening, having no contact with one another. So. And that's not just Asian to Asian, it's Asian to African as well. So, you know, they clearly know a lot of what's going on and much more interconnected than we are.
- [25:25]
Nadia Mari
So sounds like very, very exciting times. So if I remember rightly, your newsletter mentioned that. So Kenya's crate is already there, and you mentioned that as well. Now, where's my brain today? And so is Puppy's crate already in Argentina as well, or only Kenya's?
- [25:42]
Kat
It arrives at the border on Monday.
- [25:45]
Nadia Mari
Oh, Monday.
- [25:45]
Scott
Okay.
- [25:47]
Nadia Mari
So when this podcast comes out, it will already be there.
- [25:49]
Kat
It'll already be there. Yep. Hopefully, by the time this podcast comes out, we'll have more updates and everything that's going on, we'll have more details. Right now, we're still kind of in no man's land, waiting for things to fall together, putting the pieces together. So we don't have any dates, but hopefully by the first of the year, we'll know a lot more, just because.
- [26:06]
Scott
We have to see how things play out with Kenya and her training and all of that. We're not gonna force things and essentially use that as the foundation of our relationship with her. So, I mean, we would all like them here sooner than later, but we also don't want to, you know, put her in a bad position with essentially forcing her into a blood draw and having her be really distrustful. So, yeah.
- [26:36]
Kat
And this week also, we have a meeting with the folks at the Eco Park Buenos Aires to talk about next steps and what's going to happen there. So it's all moving forward. Exciting time.
- [26:45]
Nadia Mari
Oh, very exciting. So we have to contain our excitement, and as you have always said, it's always on elephant time. Their choice, their decision, even before they come to sanctuary, as Kat just said. Yeah, I can imagine if you get forced into having your blood taken and then you think, I'm not going to let anyone near me. So, yeah, we'll stick to listening and reading your social media posts. And so it's time to say goodbye for this year. I can't believe. Yeah, this is the second year of global, global rumbling. So big shout out to all our listeners. Thank you for your support. Thank you for your kind words of encouragement, your comments under all global Sanctuary for elephant social media posts on YouTube. Thank you for sharing and caring and yes, just spreading the word of the sanctuary to the whole world. And then also thank you, Kat and Scott, as always, for your, your time. I know it's very limited and today we were lucky because before we actually started recording, you said a huge thunderstorm was coming over. So luckily the universe was on our side. For our last recording this year, no Internet crash. Now suddenly it. So no Internet disconnection, no, no huge rumbles and rain downpours where Bob the producer will say, no, I can't. I can't produce this. So thank you for your time. Thank you for sharing all your insights, all your stories, all your expertise. As many listeners say they could listen to you for hours, so can I. But, yeah, our recording time.
- [28:20]
Kat
Thank you for all those kind words, appreciate them very much and all that you have done to make all this possible for all our listeners. You know, without you and Bob, none of this would be happening. So we appreciate it very much and.
- [28:31]
Scott
I think it's nice to be able to go, some go into more depth with some of the things that we talk about because for some, you know, just touching the surface is enough. But we definitely know there are others that want a deeper understanding of what goes on with our elephants, but also some of the topics of elephants in general.
- [28:52]
Kat
And we're still just grazing the surface. So more to come.
- [28:55]
Nadia Mari
Yeah, more to come.
- [28:56]
Kat
Let's dive deeper into the world of captive elephant recovery.
- [28:59]
Nadia Mari
Okay, well, enjoy your New Year's Eve when it does come round and Scott falls asleep. If Scott falls asleep before midnight with a glass of red wine, so be it. Everyone have a fantastic New Year's Eve after you've listened to this podcast. And we will catch up on the new year 2025. We will start with episode number 50. Unbelievable. And not quite sure whether we will be airing on the 14th or on the 21st. We have to sort of see what holidays are looking like. But if you have subscribed to the podcast and hit that notification bell, your podcatcher will remind you. And of course GSE social media team will be sharing that out as well. So markdown the 21st most definitely of January but possibly the 14th or so I think depending on the news from Argentina. And so yes, thank you again for joining us for the entire year. We look forward to welcoming you again next year, all our listeners and supporters and yes, Kat and Scott, thank you again and see you soon.
- [30:08]
Kat
Thank you Nadia. Happy holidays.
- [30:10]
Scott
Bye.
- [30:11]
Nadia Mari
Hi. As we wrap up this week's episode, a reminder that if you'd like to stay up to date with current events at the sanctuary, you can do so by following Global Sanctuary for Elephants on their various social media channels. You'll find all the details in the show notes. Thank you so much. And until we meet up in two weeks time, take care.