Episode 54: News from Mendoza: Kenya & Tamy Update!

Summary

Global Rumblings Podcast - Episode 54: News from Mendoza: Kenya & Tamy Update!

Host: Nadia Mari
Guests: Kat and Scott Blais, Co-founders of Global Sanctuary for Elephants
Release Date: April 15, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 54 of the Global Rumblings podcast, host Nadia Mari reconnects with Kat and Scott Blais from the Global Sanctuary for Elephants (GSE) to provide updates on their ongoing projects at the Mendoza Eco Park in Argentina. The discussion delves into the progress of Kenya’s crate training, insights from recent challenges, and updates on Tammy, the male Asian elephant awaiting relocation to the sanctuary.

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Kenya’s Crate Training Progress

Kenya, one of the female Asian elephants at Mendoza Eco Park, has been undergoing crate training as part of her transition to the sanctuary. Scott shares positive developments in her training process:

Scott [02:08]: "She's doing really great. She's in there day and night. There's a camera trap watching her."

The crate, already in Argentina, serves as a safe space for Kenya to acclimate to her new environment. Marcos, a dedicated trainer, has been instrumental in desensitizing Kenya to the crate through consistent and gentle interactions. Kat highlights Kenya’s adaptability:

Kat [04:06]: "It's just, as long as she doesn't break it, we're all good."

Despite the initial sterility of her enclosure, which consists merely of walls, Kenya has shown remarkable curiosity and comfort, quickly adapting to the new surroundings. Kat elaborates on the elephants' natural inquisitiveness:

Kat [03:40]: "As soon as there's something new there, they're inquisitive, they're curious."

Notably, nighttime camera footage reveals Kenya’s growing comfort with the crate, showcasing endearing behaviors such as rumbles and trunk tapping:

Kat [09:53]: "She steps into the crate doorway, and she does this little rumble. How cute are you?"

These observations affirm the effectiveness of the crate training, fostering a sense of security and trust between Kenya and her caregivers.

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Challenges and Lessons Learned

Scott and Kat discuss a significant learning experience during Kenya’s training. Marcos attempted to bond with Kenya using a bristle brush to calm her before a blood draw. While the initial interaction was positive, Kenya misinterpreted the situation, leading to emotional distress:

Scott [13:04]: "They don't spend the time. So it wasn't the new introduction of needle. The difference was this moment of intimacy that they had and was taking advantage of that intimacy vulnerability that she had."

Kat reflects on the delicate nature of building trust with elephants:

Kat [14:04]: "Nobody likes being poked with a needle. ... it was very nice that that part of it is done. But I think a big lesson ... how easy it is to break a trust with an elephant who's never really opened herself up that way to trust somebody."

This incident underscored the importance of gradual and consistent training methods to maintain and strengthen the bond between Kenya and her trainers.

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Tammy: The Male Asian Elephant

Tammy, the male Asian elephant at Mendoza Eco Park, presents a different set of challenges. Unlike Kenya, Tammy is an older elephant with significant health issues, including foot problems and being underweight. Kat expresses deep concern for Tammy’s well-being:

Kat [15:50]: "I love him. ... he's not a spring chicken. He definitely does not feel good."

Scott elaborates on the complexities involved in preparing Tammy for relocation:

Scott [16:06]: "There's a lot of elements involved that we can't really fully delve into ... it's a complicated scenario."

The primary hurdles include:

• Habitat Construction: Delays in building Tammy’s habitat to meet sanctuary standards.
• Permitting Issues: Obtaining the necessary CITES permits contingent on habitat approval.
• Training Logistics: Establishing a consistent training regimen amidst construction and logistical constraints.

Kat underscores the bureaucratic challenges associated with government-owned facilities:

Kat [20:21]: "... it's a government-owned zoo. So anybody who's worked for anything government knows that everything is a process."

Scott highlights the extended timelines and resource constraints that impede Tammy’s progress:

Scott [20:54]: "It's a long road ... but it's been rolling forward. And we have 12 people now working on fencing and construction that are all doing really, really well."

Despite these obstacles, GSE remains committed to Tammy’s relocation, emphasizing the need for a stronger bond and dedicated training to ensure his successful transition.

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Future Plans and Conclusions

As the episode draws to a close, Nadia inquires about the possibility of relocating Tammy following Kenya’s successful crate training. Kat and Scott clarify the logistical limitations:

Kat [23:40]: "No, they're not connected, so they would have to actually put him in a crate or something to move him over there."

They discuss ongoing efforts to assess and improve the facility to facilitate Tammy’s move, highlighting the proactive steps being taken despite the challenges.

Scott encapsulates the overarching theme of the episode:

Scott [22:14]: "It's a gorgeous environment there. But that environment is hard. That zoo environment ... is a tough one."

Kat reinforces the collaborative spirit driving their mission:

Kat [20:54]: "Everyone's on the same page. ... but it's a logistical element."

The episode concludes on a hopeful note, with Kenya’s positive response to crate training serving as a beacon of progress for GSE’s broader mission to rescue and rehabilitate elephants.

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Key Takeaways

• Crate Training Success: Kenya’s adaptability and comfort with her crate signify a major step towards her relocation to the sanctuary.

• Trust Building: The incident during Kenya’s blood draw underscores the critical importance of building and maintaining trust with rescued elephants.

• Tammy’s Challenges: Relocating Tammy involves complex logistical, legal, and infrastructural hurdles that require sustained effort and resources.

• Commitment to Welfare: Despite setbacks, GSE remains dedicated to improving the lives of elephants like Kenya and Tammy through meticulous planning and compassionate care.

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Notable Quotes

• Scott [02:08]: "She's doing really great. She's in there day and night."

• Kat [04:06]: "As long as she doesn't break it, we're all good."

• Kat [09:53]: "She steps into the crate doorway, and she does this little rumble. How cute are you?"

• Kat [14:04]: "... how easy it is to break a trust with an elephant who's never really opened herself up that way to trust somebody."

• Scott [20:54]: "It's a long road ... but it's been rolling forward."

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Conclusion

Episode 54 of Global Rumblings offers an intimate glimpse into the challenges and triumphs faced by the Global Sanctuary for Elephants in their mission to rescue and rehabilitate captive elephants. Through candid discussions and heartfelt updates, Kat and Scott Blais illuminate the intricate processes involved in elephant welfare and sanctuary management, leaving listeners with a deeper understanding of the dedication required to foster healing and trust in these majestic animals.

For more updates and information, follow GSE on their social media channels or visit their website at globalelephants.org.

Transcript

[Nadia Mari]

Hello and welcome to Global Sanctuary for Elephants podcast. Global Rumblings. Global Sanctuary for Elephants, or GSE for short, is a non profit organization with a mission to create vast, safe spaces for captive elephants where they are able to heal physically and emotionally, often from very traumatic pasts. I'm your host, Nadia Mari, and I'll be taking you to the lush jungle of the Mato Grosso region in central Brazil, home of GSE's initial project, Elephant Sanctuary Brazil, currently home to five female Asian elephants, lovingly referred to as the Girls. Hello, everybody. Welcome back and thank you for tuning in again this week for a new episode of Global Rumblings. Today we'll be catching up on current events at the Mendoza Eco park in Argentina. So let's head over to Brazil to say hi to Kat and Scott. Hi, you two.

[Scott]

Hello, Nadia. Hey, Nadia, how are you?

[Nadia Mari]

I'm fine, I'm fine. Enjoying, enjoying spring weather. Have you still got rainy season?

[Scott]

Fortunately, yes. We are in the transition time, but it has been raining almost every day for, well, until now. Today's dry, but hopefully more rain will come. Yeah, it's really nice. It's really lush and green and beautiful and the girls are enjoying it.

[Nadia Mari]

Perfect. Well, hopefully Kenya will be enjoying it soon as well. So I was just checking in episode 49 and also in episode 50, we talked about what you know and don't know about Kenya and then we also talked about general preparations, what's a trunk wash, quarantine, permits, all that nice stuff. But we've moved forward. The crate, correct me if I'm wrong, is already in Argentina with Kenya. So how have the last few weeks been progressing? How is her crate training going?

[Scott]

Yeah, it's going really, really well. So the crate is there. Marcos has gone back down. He's going to be spending some time with her. She's doing great. She's actually really, really comfortable in the crate. What?

[Nadia Mari]

She great?

[Scott]

Yeah, she's doing great. She's in there day and night. There's a camera trap watching her. Marcos is working on working with desensitization through his motions and his movements around the crate. Making some noise, walking around. We saw a cute little video. There's these little rodents called in Portugal in Spanish there. They call them Matas, which is the same spelling as Mata the elephant.

[Kat]

Look like a big guinea pig. Rabbit cross.

[Nadia Mari]

Yeah, we'll need a picture of that for the video edition.

[Scott]

They're really quite charming little animals.

[Kat]

They're everywhere.

[Scott]

They are everywhere. And they are also helping with the desensitization because when they walk past the crate, she quickly turns to see what they're doing, and sometimes she'll leave the crate because they're going towards the. In the back. So what we're trying to do is have enough motion and movement around that she becomes comfortable with that. So when we go to close the gate and do the next steps, she's. It's not a shock. Okay. But she's doing really well. Really well.

[Kat]

Yeah. The first day she went in, but not all the way. The first day was first 2ft, then 3ft, but she always kept something out. But by the second day, she was all good with just going in and staying in, so.

[Nadia Mari]

Because I remember you said that her enclosure is very sterile as well. Well, yeah, I saw a photo. I think it's just. Just a wall, isn't it? So again, as you've said in previous podcast, as soon as there's something new there, they're inquisitive, they're curious. So she just went straight to it then. Sounds like it.

[Scott]

A giant new toy, essentially. No, it's great.

[Kat]

I mean, as long as she doesn't break it, we're all good.

[Scott]

You know, their sterile lives actually work in our favor in this. You know, it gives them something to think about, something new to, you know, for years, she's never been able to. And the only thing new was a couple. Couple of logs and a pile of dirt. Different, different people, but that's about it.

[Kat]

And it's the same with a lot of the elephants that we go get. You know, it's like Maya and Gita, they were ready the first day, they were like, we're good. Let's go. Close gates. Time to go. I mean, lady. Lady really liked her crate too. I mean, it's just. They have nothing. So even though the crate's not in the grand scheme of things, super exciting for them with 30, 40, 50 years of the same little square that they live in. It's pretty exciting.

[Nadia Mari]

Pretty exciting? Yeah.

[Kat]

Pathetically, yes.

[Scott]

For me, it's also been exciting. Go ahead.

[Nadia Mari]

Yeah, no, no, you go ahead.

[Scott]

For me, it's also been exciting to watch this process from Marcos. You know, he was there when they. At the Eco Park. Mendoza, I'm sorry, Buenos Aires, when they moved. Mara. But Mars, an old circus elephant, very different. She's also an older Asian elephant, which is very different than a younger. She's not really young. She's 40 something years old, but she is younger than Mara was. African elephant. And that African elephant energy and the elephant. African elephant response time. And their quick little actions. And their little burst of, I don't like that, and then they come right back to you. But. But all of that is different. And it's been wonderful to watch his progress as he's working through what he needs to do for her. Honestly, at this point, it's as much about his growth as it is hers. And finding that comfort for him in that process and being honest with his comforts and discomforts in that process and being honest with her is gonna help her gain more comfort with her own insecurities and discomfort. So it's really interesting dynamic that's happening, and it's fun to watch his growth and his awareness and the things he's trying to do and.

[Kat]

And clearly he's smitten with her.

[Scott]

Yes. Oh, he was. Something happened the other day, and he was so excited. He was like, you know, a kid kid on Christmas morning when he. When he sent us the update, it was really quite charming.

[Nadia Mari]

So is there a big difference? You said Mara being a former circus elephant then, presumably still being used to. Or remembering what it's like to be in a crate, then Kenya, I can imagine she was brought in the crate, and that's it. Is there, like, similarities or that in their crate training then. We're not Mara now, but let's say Pupi.

[Scott]

Yeah, I mean, the similarities are. I mean, you kind of go through the same process, but there's. It's often much faster with the circus elephant, that is for a couple of reasons. One, they've been in a transport situation many, many times before. They've been in that type of enclosure. Many, many types before. Different enclosure, certainty, different types of design, all that stuff. But very, very similar type setup. It's also in circus a lot of times it's going into a trailer, not a crate on the ground, but it's still acclim. Acclimated to that type of confinement, if you will. But the other thing that happens between zoo and circus elephants is generally is circus elephants actually are much more.

[Kat]

I'm.

[Scott]

Gonna say, psychologically adept to adjustments. They adapt to new things faster because they've been in so many different environments. You know, it's a different city, a different town, different park, different everything all their life. And so they're used to, okay, this is different. Let's go. Let's check it out. Because they've been through that zoo, elephants, many times. It's the same as we said for what, 40 years? The biggest thing that's changed for her is maybe the painting on the wall, the people, a pile of dirt A new tire. Different Matas running around.

[Kat]

Kenya's not allowed to have tires.

[Scott]

Yeah. I mean, there's.

[Kat]

She throws things. She is not allowed to have a tire. Not by us.

[Nadia Mari]

Naughty.

[Kat]

That is a rule that existed before we got there.

[Scott]

So there's intrigue. There's intrigue with the new toy. That's intriguing. It's stimulating, it's interesting. But they lack that ability to put themselves in an uncomfortable position or they lack the comfort to put themselves in an uncomfortable situation.

[Nadia Mari]

Okay, so is she wary of the back door closing? Has it been closed yet, or aren't you that far yet?

[Scott]

We're not there yet, no.

[Nadia Mari]

You're not there yet?

[Scott]

No. Because every time Marcos is working on his own with her, the other keepers are not assisting in that process. And that's for no other reason than they don't have a lot of time and they don't have a lot to offer in that process. And so with him working alone, it's a little bit different dynamic for him. We can't have somebody waiting with her at the front while the second person walks around. So she's. Pardon me. She's really focused on his motion.

[Kat]

So when he leaves to walk around the back, she's like, where are you going? My friend is leaving. What's going on? You know, it's not this apprehension of having somebody by the back of the crate. It's just the most exciting thing is him, because he likes her, she likes him, and he brings food, and when he walks away, she's like, hey. I mean, but we do know she's interested in the crate just on her own, because with the nighttime cameras, you know, she goes in when nobody's there. And in one of the videos, it was very cute because they have sound. She steps into the crate doorway, and she does this little rumble. It's like, are you rumbling at your crate? Like, how cute are you?

[Scott]

And then scratching her ear on it on the side of the door. Yeah, it's really quite charming. And then you see her little trunk mannerisms, too. Those little cute things with her nose.

[Kat]

Yeah. And she did that thing with her foot that I don't know that I've ever seen.

[Scott]

Yeah, it's kind of like.

[Kat]

It's like trunk tapping, but with her foot.

[Scott]

Yeah, it's like lifting her foot up and down, like, repeatedly. Almost like tapping your toe. She did that a couple of times.

[Nadia Mari]

You're learning a lot about her as well, because I remember in the episode when you introduced her, you said, you don't know an awful lot about her, so. Or presumably Marcos is learning the most because he's right there with her and feeling all the vibes. So what kind of personality has she got? I remember Kat saying, she's. She's. She's cheeky, but she's also very inquisitive and very intelligent. Anything else at the moment that you can say about her?

[Kat]

I think one of the biggest things they actually learned about her was something that didn't go well. And that happens, you know, that happens in life. You know, the biggest lessons often come from quote, unquote, mistakes. And Marcos had actually introduced a brush to Kenya, like a bristle brush, and using that on her head and on her body, and she really, really enjoyed it. It was very sweet. You know, there again, there's a lack of time that her caregivers in the past have had, so there hasn't been that a lot of bonding between a person and her. So it was very lovely, and she enjoyed it thoroughly. And Marcos thought it would be nice to help keep her calm while trying to do blood draw. And this was before she had allowed blood draw, but there was no, like, segue with it. It wasn't, like, brought into any of the training sessions first or anything like that. It was like, the next day, they decided to try blood draw, which had been planned. And he started with the brush on her face, and she got all relaxed. And then even though Joanna said, you know, I'm gonna go behind you, and we're gonna do blood draw, she wasn't there. You know, she was in this bonding moment with Marcos, having this nice moment, and when she was stuck with the needle, she did not respond very well. She didn't try to hurt anybody. She just pulled away. And then she ended up. She actually ran away. She vocalized. She was kicking up dirt. She was throwing her trunk. She was really hurt, like, emotionally, not physically. There was this lack of understanding on her part and almost being taken advantage of or breaking some level of trust that what was supposed to be this nice bonding moment turned into this.

[Scott]

And they had poked her before with the needle.

[Kat]

Oh, my God.

[Scott]

They poked her. And they don't spend the time. So it wasn't the new introduction of needle. The difference was this moment of intimacy that they had and was taking advantage of that intimacy vulnerability that she had. And it was a good experience for everybody.

[Kat]

And, I mean, that's not how he saw it. He thought he was bringing comfort into a scenario where she was showing she wasn't 100% comfortable, but how she saw it and how he saw it were two very different things. And she took a step back and. And it was a couple of days before she wanted to really do much with them again as far as any sort of training. And, I mean, they worked their way back through it, and she was fine. And they did end up getting blood. Yay. So that requirement is met.

[Scott]

But a big yay. We'll add a couple. Add a little extra.

[Kat]

I'm sorry, emotion behind that. Is that better?

[Nadia Mari]

Yeah.

[Kat]

Yeah. I mean, that's always a concern. You know, just like humans, nobody likes being poked with a needle. And most people have taken their cat and dog to the vet, and when they have blood drawn, they are restrained because, you know, nobody enjoys it. You can't restrain an elephant, so you have to convince them to stay there while you poke them. So, yes, it was very nice that that part of it is done. But I think a big lesson for everybody, you know, for them to see how easy it is to break a trust with an elephant who's never really opened herself up that way to trust somebody, and how significant that was for her and how differently she sees some of the things that they're doing versus how they see it, and trying to look at things from her perspective so that, you know, they can change approach and some of the things that they're doing.

[Nadia Mari]

Sounds really interesting. Yeah. Different. Different situation. How they assessed it and how she assessed it. So does definitely sound like what you said, Scott, at the beginning, that everyone is learning. So Kenya's learning and Marcos is learning. We are on a tight schedule today because you are busy as always. Of course, there is, of course, another elephant at the Mendoza Eco Park. Tammy, the male Asian elephant. So what about him? Because he is also bookmarked to come to the sanctuary, but obviously not before the two female African elephants. So what can you tell us about Tammy? Is there any training going on with him?

[Kat]

I love him.

[Scott]

It's Cat's boyfriend.

[Kat]

I'm so sad every time I see him. I love him.

[Scott]

He's wonderful. You know, he's not a spring chicken. You know, he definitely does not feel good. He has a lot of issues that we don't know all about.

[Kat]

We know he has significant foot issues. He's underweight. His muscle mass is not great. He lays down in his little cement pool, we assume, when his feet hurt, so he can take weight off of his feet. And.

[Scott]

Yeah, so it's not great. So. But we are. There's a. There's a lot of elements to this. There's gonna be the trust Element, because no one's ever really worked with him for. I mean, he's been there when, you know, Karissa was there working on Poacher and Gijimin initially, and they worked on a few things with him, but it's always over from. From above that wall, you know, that. That pit that he's in. So you're working from above him. And they need to create a scenario where they can work with him at ground level for the training that needs to be done. That's a very complicated scenario. In this very archaic environment of a concrete pit, the doors don't work. They haven't been used in years. He can't fit through some of the doors because he can't really crouch down very well anymore because of his sore joints.

[Kat]

So he's not going down into the area that they can do training at, at all.

[Scott]

Right. So the training wall that exists is where Pochi and Kijimino are, but he can't get there. Oh, I see. Okay. I think you guys probably remember there's the videos of poaching Kizimina going out through that little corridor, little tunnel. And you can see, I mean, Gizamina rubs her back on that tunnel. They actually, neither of them had hair on the top of their back from going in and out of that tunnel all the time. And the. I don't know if they actually rubbed the back in the tunnel or that other door. I don't remember which one it was. Yeah, but it's tight going through there and they don't know if he'll actually go all the way in there. So part of what happens, the next step, is assessing what other options exist for his training, what other construction needs to be done, how can we expedite that construction? And then will it work to have Marcos go back there for extended periods of time, or do we have to find somebody else? So we're in those discussions trying to make all that work, but the first step out of any of that is going to be finding somebody that can really focus on him and bond with him and get him to open up and get him to start trusting that. That process, which will then expedite all of the training and the blood draw and all that stuff. But it has to start with a little bit stronger bond.

[Nadia Mari]

So when Poch and Kamina were rescued in May 2022, I've forgotten, was there a reason why he wasn't able to come, let's say, a couple of months later? Was it a permit issue or was his construction his habitat? Because obviously A male Asian is going to have his separate habitat. He's not going to be with the other elephants.

[Scott]

Yeah. So that goes back to the long string of complicated issues it is building his habitat, getting the permits for the Melusian habitat. We can't get his CITES permit until we had the permit for operation for his habitat. That goes back to finding the right people and finding welders and a team that we had to fire because they were fighting all day long. A welding team, the one welding team we could actually hire. They were causing problems not only for their team, they were causing problems on our team. So we had to dismiss them. And then our small team was small. Four guys doing all the construction and maintenance and everything else. So that all has improved and everything's rolling forward. And we have 12 people now working on fencing and construction that are all doing really, really well, knock on wood. But it's been a long road to get there. But then there's also his training and who was available in Mendoza to be able to help with that. Financial restrictions, restrictions with being able to get somebody to go in and work with a team team restrictions of who was allowed or not allowed to go work there. There's a lot of elements involved that we can't really fully delve, delve into in the next five minutes. But it's a complicated scenario. None of these things even remotely close to straightforward. And sometimes we get the recommendations. Well, why don't you just do this and hire. Doesn't work that way. You know, none of it's that straightforward. I wish it was.

[Kat]

And most of the, well, all of the decisions there aren't our decisions to make. We can make all the recommendations we want, but that doesn't mean any of them are taken. You know, they're not our elephants. They belong to the eco park and they make all of the decisions. And you know, if we make recommendations to turn something into a training wall, you know, it's, that's as far as we can take it. We can offer to fund it if they say money is a problem. But it's a government owned zoo. So anybody who's worked for anything government knows that everything is a process. You have to get approvals for it to be done and then have to go through all these different bids for people to do the work. And I mean it's, it's a nightmare. It's not like here where if we decide to build something, we can just build something, you know, and we have our own people.

[Scott]

And so yeah, they built a concrete ramp for him to go from there was a step. If you, again, if you look at poaching gizmun closure, there's a step that used to go up. I think there's part of it that had a ramp, but part of a step, I don't remember. But their little outdoor enclosure had a couple levels to it and they made an extended ramp for him to be able to walk down more gently into that space, into that outdoor space. But that was what, six weeks for a little concrete ramp, you know, and how many that was, you know, talked about months in advance of that. But it's six weeks of construction which should have been, you know, much shorter than that. So there's a lot of things that we have no control over.

[Kat]

And it's so hard to get somebody to go there. You know, most people don't want to go there. Most people don't want to spend any length of time there. And it's not going to work for him to have somebody go for three or four weeks and then leave for a couple of months because there's nobody at the zoo that can continue anything with him. So you're going to start, just start making progress and then leave and then have to come back. I mean, we can't. We have tried to find people that would commit to staying there for months at a time. And it's not the kind of place that people want to stay there for months in general.

[Nadia Mari]

So the zoo itself.

[Scott]

Yeah, I mean, Mendoza is actually a great place.

[Kat]

Mendoza is lovely.

[Scott]

It's a gorgeous environment. I mean, it's up lovely wine hot springs, which we've never been to. Everybody talks about how lovely the mud springs are, the hot springs and the mud baths, you know, the volcanic mud baths. And you know, it's on the, the west side of the, the Andes Mountains. It's gorgeous there. But that environment is hard. That, that zoo environment, that eco park environment.

[Kat]

It's a tough one, especially for people who like animals, because there's a lot of animals that could use help there. And of course they are doing what they can to move these animals and you know, it's not like they're not trying, but it doesn't make it any easier when you have to walk through zoo to get to the elephants.

[Scott]

And it's another zoo that's made a lot of progress, a lot of progress, just as we talked about in, in Buenos Aires. But it is, it's got, they've got a long way to go still. It's, it's a tough, it's, it's a much, much more difficult environment and I think more complicated scenario financially, physically, than they were with Buenari. But everyone's on the same page. You know, everyone's pushing forward for Tammy. Everyone's pushing forward for Kenya. Everyone. Everyone's on that same page. That's not the struggle. It's just more of a logistic element.

[Nadia Mari]

So before we wrap up, I just had a sudden thought, although you've probably had that thought as well, but maybe one your supporters have had as well. When Kenya is gone, would he be able to go into her enclosure?

[Kat]

No, they're not connected, so they would have to actually put him in a crate or something to move him over there. And he's not trained for anything. Nobody can touch him. Nobody, I mean, nobody does anything with him except for dump his food over the top of the wall.

[Scott]

And he can't get to where the door is to be able to put the crate in place. So even if we had a crate there, he can't get to the crate because of the way the facility is. But when we go down there next time will be spent looking at that facility a little bit more and really figuring out what we can do to make that happen.

[Kat]

We have not forgotten him. We are. Tomas already had reached out the other day, and we were already however many steps ahead of him in his thought process. Everybody wants to get him out of there. It's just we wish it was way easier than it is, but it's not.

[Nadia Mari]

Well, yeah, if anybody is at it and doing their best, it's you two. So, yeah, poor Tammy, but positive vibes. Any elephant trainers out there listening to the podcast? We've got a couple of months locum go to Mendoja, maybe put on blindfolds when you go to the. Past the other elephants, past the other animals. But yeah, you know, get Tammy out of there. And as you say, it takes time, but so much wasted. Yeah, so much not wasted time. But yeah, some things that may be wasted, like permits. But yeah, such. It's a long, long process and very. Just sad to. To hear because, yeah, as you. As you say, time is of essence. You know, he's not a. He's not a young elephant, as all the elephants are in South America that you're rescuing.

[Kat]

No, he's over 50.

[Nadia Mari]

Yeah. But it's good to hear that Kenya likes her crate. So that's a. That's a good note to end on. So, yeah, thanks as always for your time. Have a lovely rest of your day and we'll catch up then for our next recording soon.

[Scott]

Thank you, Nadia. It's always a pleasure. And we'll talk soon.

[Kat]

Bye.

[Nadia Mari]

Okay, Bye.

[Kat]

Bye.

[Nadia Mari]

As we wrap up this week's episode, a reminder that you can stay up to date with current events at the Sanctuary by following GSE on their various social media channels. You'll find all the details in the show notes or directly on their website, globalelephants.org thank you so much for your support. And until we meet up for our next episode, take care.