Kat (4:16)

Had an off day. But it happens. I mean, you know, between the care team, the elephant, you know, you have all this stuff that feels great and then you have like one training session that doesn't feel great. And it just allows that little bit.

Scott (4:30)

Of doubt to creep in and that crept big way. And I talked to somebody this morning about, you know, you guys look at us like we have all the answers and always feels good and we always know what to do, but we don't always know what to do. You know, you take a chance and say, maybe it's the right time, maybe it's not. And throughout all of those discussions, we always said, let's aim for Monday and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And on Sunday, things were really, really good. Monday morning, actually, one of the supervisors who was initially opposed to some of the changes we wanted to make during my first visit, he had a huge shift. And for three days I was kind of by his side as they're doing the training. Cause they selected, I think, five different people that were gonna be the main trainers. Cause they had too many people involved.

Kat (5:20)

And there was just a big, huge shift in general with the caregiving team, the training team, how they all felt, what they were open to, so on and so forth. And I think that was the biggest change that made everything possible.

Scott (5:33)

And through those couple of days, we brainstormed on different options and how we were going to do it and what we were going to do and, you know, different things with the securing her chain for a moment and we set all of that up. And on Sunday everyone was just like completely synced. And by Sunday afternoon, the whole world was vibrating differently. It was really, really nice. It was actually really special to be a part of. So Monday comes and we started the training session in the morning and thought, you know, if she's not feeling right now, then we'll try later on in the afternoon. The first training session in the morning was about 11 o' clock. And at one point the supervisor turned to me and he's like, it's ready. I mean, she's ready, everything's aligned. And he said, there's no reason why we shouldn't try to do this. And I said, absolutely, let's give it a shot. So we secured her chain for less than a minute. It was, put it on a hook, the door closed behind her. We took the chain off and she didn't even push against the gate. She didn't even back. You know, she backed up to it for a second. She didn't try to kick it. She didn't get stressed. She was so calm, uh, so calm to the point point that the rest of the care team who was off to the side and the supervisors and the directors came over and it's like, is this actually happening? Is she really that calm? And she was, she was perfectly calm. So it wasn't about being closed in, it was about the process of the door closing and that she had been triggered. That was triggering her. And we had imagined that if we can just get past that first trigger that moment and hold her still for a moment, that she'll do just fine. And certainly she did.

Nadia Mari (7:13)

Lovely. And then you had a five day road trip. Everybody who is new to the podcast definitely recommend during these rescues, but also now follow GSE on their various social media platforms. You went live every single day. A very tired Scott. And so the trip went quite well. I think it was a little bit of a hiccup at the, at the border. Something with paperwork or.

Scott (7:38)

No, actually we were going to get because of the first schedule, because of the time to get to the border. The idea, just like we did with Mara the time before and Pochin Gijamina was to get to the border the night before and cross the border first thing. But because she went, we usually get.

Kat (7:56)

There like Midnight, two o' clock in the morning. It's not like they're hanging out like for hours and hours. And as we've talked about, you have to clean out everything. You have to get rid of all the poop, the hay, the produce, blah, blah, blah. So you have hours worth of work essentially to do anyway. So you get there at two in the morning, clean everything out, get everything ready. Six or seven in the morning when they show up, you are ready and you try to cross the border.

Scott (8:21)

So we actually, in the border in Norway, that division of the border crossing closes most of the people that we need to close. I think about 4 o' clock is when things, everyone packs up because we.

Kat (8:35)

Need like everybody in the world to be there. You know, you have like five different facets of the government that all have to be there to do their part to approve her crossing the border. So it's not just like a normal person when you try to cross the.

Scott (8:50)

Border, or even a normal truck, you know, that's a normal cargo truck that just has electronic parts. I mean, vastly different than a live animal for sure.

Nadia Mari (8:59)

So, yeah, you are an impressive convoy.

Scott (9:02)

So Tomas from Foundation Friends, Weber Sads jumped on the phone and said we might get there in the afternoon. Is that going to work for you guys? And so they kept the border open. They kept everybody there. We got there a little bit later than we had hoped, but they had everything aligned, pushed us through by I don't know what time it was. 9:30 at night. We had gone through something like that.

Kat (9:27)

No, it was even earlier than that.

Scott (9:29)

Was it earlier? We had crossed to the Brazilian side and we were planning to drive a little bit further to get away from that city, in the city early in the morning, before the morning and our police escort was not yet available. So, ah, that was it. Yeah, so they were coming from a different city because Foz de Guazu, where we are, is a big tourist city. And they didn't have anybody available to help with the first part of the convoy, which was originally. They were not going to be involved then because we're going to be crossing earlier. They were going to try to facilitate us getting out of the city a little bit, but they didn't have people available because they have. It was just before Easter, so everybody was already assigned and it was getting, already getting busy and the border crossing was actually really, really crowded. So we had to spend the night there, which still worked out pretty well because we still left that city. We stepped the border probably four or five hours earlier than we Would have. If we step with the original plan, which was get there at midnight, cross first thing in the morning, it'd be noon before we get out of there. So we left, I think about 8:00 clock that morning.

Nadia Mari (10:39)

Okay. So it wasn't the paperwork, it was the police wasn't there on time. And all the time I was going, I didn't hear that in your life. But I don't know if you mentioned it or I missed it. I think she was very. Well, I didn't think she was very comfortable in her crate. Did you need to put the straps underneath after five days to give her some support or was she okay standing?

Scott (10:59)

We actually never had to use the straps.

Kat (11:02)

We thought lady would be the one elephant that we would end up needing to use them for, which is why we actually introduced the straps to her beforehand and all that good stuff. And she thought they were the best toy. She was throwing them around, slapping herself in the face. She had a total party with them. But even with her, she didn't need them. You know, it's one of those things that you want to have available if you need them and you hope you never use them. You know, it's not an expectation that we have for almost any elephant that we're going to need them. But again, that's one of those scenarios where if you need them and they're not available, that turns into a huge mess.

Scott (11:42)

I do need to say that the team at the Buenos Aires Eco park, from all facets from the political head to the operations directors, to the veterinary team, to all the caregivers, the coordinators, the vice governor of the city, I guess, vice mayor of the city, everybody was completely on board and in a way that is really, really rare. I mean, that team was so synchronized and the camaraderie within the on site team of elephant care was like nothing we've ever seen.

Kat (12:16)

But it didn't start out that way.

Scott (12:17)

No, but it was really brilliant to see.

Kat (12:19)

And I think that's part of appreciating where they ended up for me is knowing that that's not how that started. You know, people had a lot of fears, as is usually the case. You know, they love their elephant, they don't want anything to go wrong. And of course you can't guarantee anything in life, but you know, over time and I think one of the big things for them was starting to implement some of the suggestions and even just the small things of if she does this, just change this so she sees that you're listening. So she sees that you see the difference in her and you're going to respond accordingly. That it isn't just black and white. It isn't. You have to do this. It is more of a communication back and forth. And I think when they started to implement some of those things and saw just how big of a difference those quote unquote small things make, I think that helped most of them be much more open to everything that was being said on our side because they could actually see the difference that it was making in that we sometimes actually know what we're talking about. They have pointed sometimes, not all the.

Scott (13:34)

Time, but sometimes there's, hey, guys, let's try something. I don't know if it's gonna work. Sure, you know, and sometimes there's reluctance, but, you know, as we move towards the end, it was a really nice collaborative conversation and nice to watch as cat saying how they navigated the training. The desensitization on their own in the end was really brilliant. And initially, they didn't want as anybody's walking along the side of the crate. It was really, really slow and really quiet. And he don't want her to know she's there. And then all of a sudden, you're behind her. And, you know, it's like that would startle her. So one thing they started doing is letting her go. And look, they kept trying to. Initially they were holding her in place. No, look at me, look at me, look at me, look at me at the front. Ignore what's behind you. But who's comfortable with that? So when you. When you say it like that, they're like, oh, I guess that makes sense. So what they started doing was there was a side door that you guys all know about, the little side inspection door. And that's like, at their belly. And she would actually go back, look, so he's there, say hi, and then come back to the front and be super chill, you know, so it's just giving her that chance to go say hi. And then coming back. And they would even say to her, you know, floor's over there. Do you want to go say hi? And she'd back up, go say hi. And then she'd say, sore for a minute. She'd come back and she'd be a really calm, cool elephant because she knew who was there. There's no startle. Little simple things. But when they started exploring that and seeing the voice and seeing that, the difference that it made, as Cat just said, it's just amazing how they evolved. And then the person who was the Keeper, who was the trainer slash coordinator at that moment. And I say coordinator not as a supervisor, but coordinating the steps, just did this perfect choreography with her. And he was so incredibly nurturing. And his guidance was just subtle but clear with what the different caregivers, you know, we're gonna do and how the chain was gonna be moved. And with every aspect of it, it was just really brilliant to watch how he fell into that role and just melded into that process with. With Pupi. And you could. Every aspect of that could be. Was palpable in the sense of the calm and the peace.

Nadia Mari (15:49)

And then you had a. You had a good trip. Pupi fared fantastically. A rock star. And then a daylight. A daytime arrival. All your supporters love that. But then Pupi, she loved her crate so much, I went to bed. I think I met. To bed at midnight. She was. I think two feet were out and her head was out, and then she was back in. And I think when my husband came to bed, he said, no, she's still not out. And then I think half an hour later, she was out. But I didn't find out until the next morning. What was it, 12 hours? 12 and a half hours?

Kat (16:20)

No, I think it was seven or eight.

Scott (16:23)

I don't know. It was a long time.

Kat (16:25)

I do have to say, though, it was the first trip that I didn't really worry that much about my husband. I have a tendency as a spouse to be concerned. I know he's.

Scott (16:35)

She gave up on worrying.

Kat (16:36)

I know.

Scott (16:39)

Diminished love.

Kat (16:40)

He's usually first one up, last one to bed, always cleaning out, taking care of her, you know, sometimes not really grabbing food at rest stops. And with all of his dietary restrictions, feeding him is relatively impossible on the road anyway. But the team really was so good. Her caregivers were so good with taking care of her at every stop and making sure that, you know, she was fed, watered, cleaned up after. And again, Tomas, making sure that, you know, the. What's the word I'm looking for? I don't want to say managerial side, but all of the logistics and paperwork, you know, he was dealing with a lot.

Scott (17:24)

And Danny.

Kat (17:25)

Yeah, and Danny on our side, once they hit Brazil. So it was probably the first trip where I didn't have the phone right by my head as I was sleeping, worried that I was gonna get a call. Not worried that anything's gonna go wrong, but it is that wanting to feel like I am there for you if you want to talk about what's going on and blah, blah, blah. But you had A bunch of people that were actually super, super helpful.

Scott (17:54)

They were really good people that you liked. And it was really nice because sometimes, you know, on these trips, there's a lot of people on the road. There's 20, 26, six all together on our side on the, you know, the. The team. And with. Between drivers and. Yeah, political heads and journalists and documentarians and keepers.

Kat (18:17)

Keepers. Trainers, veterinarians.

Scott (18:19)

So it was a big team, but they did. They coordinated really well. And sometimes we had to make a shift and say, hey, guys, you know, this is what I see that's happening. And immediately everyone's like, yes, we see it. We understand. We're on it. And they were really, really good. And at one stop, it was a little bit chaotic. Too many people too close. The truck was not in a good position. And I just sent a note to everybody, say, hey, guys, we need to switch what we're doing. And immediately the next stop was completely different. And everyone really understood what the objective was and not trying to leave anybody to the side, but trying to respect what needs to be happening and the danger that it was creating for the people that were trying to take care of her, of just having too many people too close. And they just responded really, really well every. At every moment.

Nadia Mari (19:09)

That's a big tea, that little Petley screeching there.

Scott (19:14)

And Mr. Rogers, Mr. Roger, Pete Lee.

Nadia Mari (19:17)

So, yeah, eight. Eight or 12 hours. I don't know. I'm sure our supporters that were probably not exactly. I remember something about 10. About 10, I thought 10 or 11 arriving your time, so. Plus six hours for Germany, but whatever. I think she was the longest taking out. But then the transformation. So take us there before our recording time comes to an end. Take us there the first night, the first day outside.

Kat (19:44)

What are you looking at me for?

Scott (19:46)

You go.

Nadia Mari (19:50)

There as well. I saw you.

Kat (19:52)

Yes, I was there. No, I just think it's a big jump. I think one of the things that, you know, the same thing happened with P and G with people with waiting for them to get out of the container. We get a lot of, can't you just do this? Why don't you try this? So on and so forth. And it is that, you know, it. It's their first choice on sanctuary property. You know, we talk about autonomy. We talk about how important it is to hear their voice. We talk about how important it is for them to discover who they are by having the ability to make choices for aside from tiny, tiny little minuscule choices, you know, for the first time since they were three years old. You know, and yes, we could try some things to.

Scott (20:36)

And we did. You know, it's not like we just sat there.

Kat (20:39)

No, but there's other things we could try that would be more pushy.

Scott (20:43)

Sure.

Kat (20:45)

But there's no reason for that. You know, we're giving her encouragement, we're giving her support. She has her staff that she loves, and if she was ready, she would come out. And she just had. I mean, shipped to the zoo at three years old, spent her lifetime with Kooky. Kooky dies a few months ago. I'm sure she's not even done processing that. Because, of course, losing someone you're that close to is a very long process. Then she starts all the training for relocation. She's got this constant attention from people and her crate and so on and so forth. Then she has the door closed behind her, put on a truck, you know, on this vibrating thing going down the road. I can't even imagine the sensory overload for an elephant with the amount of smells, new smells that she drove through in the four days, you know, if she. When she gets there, is trying to process all of that before she starts yet something else that's new and stepping into this environment that I'm sure she's well aware and is gonna be different than anything she's had in her life. We are okay with waiting, but even.

Scott (21:57)

In the silence of what is here is overstimulating.

Kat (22:00)

Sure.

Scott (22:00)

You know, because it's a completely different level of sound.

Kat (22:05)

And we even joked because everybody initially was, like, so super quiet. They're like, not even talking. It's like you could hear people breathing. And we're like, this is probably really weird for her. You know, there's a chance she has no idea why no one's talking. You know, why it's so quiet. Why is everybody being so awkward? And people laughed when we said it. But then at least people started talking and being a little bit more normal. But.

Scott (22:30)

And they all realized also, it's like, that must be strange, you know, the same thing before. But I also love the level of respect.

Kat (22:37)

Sure.

Scott (22:37)

That comes in that moment. Because you don't ask everybody to be quiet. They just get quiet.

Kat (22:41)

Yeah.

Scott (22:41)

And everyone's waiting for that moment that didn't come. Yes.

Kat (22:44)

Everybody's barely breathing.

Nadia Mari (22:47)

So she can feel the anxiousness of the people as well then. Yeah.

Kat (22:51)

Yeah, I would assume so. And I mean, she lived 30 something years in the city. You know, it is cars and planes and buildings and people and, you know, I mean, if you look up from her Exhibit you see giant buildings and there's so many people in their windows. And I mean, she hasn't been this kind of alone since again, she was sent to the zoo in the first place. So, you know, it's just, it's very strange. And if she needs to hang out in her little box that clearly we knew she had no problem being in. Yeah, it's fine, you know, give her that space. The cute part, of course, was it was one of the caregivers birthdays. So we had had everybody kind of pull back from being in her space. We left some of the video recording equipment and stuff in place. So just in case she decided to come out, it was there. But to let her kind of not have people right there because there is that anticipation that everybody has that you can feel. And it's like, all right, let's everybody back off. And we had food and we had a cake and. And everybody started to sing Happy Birthday. I don't remember what language was. First we went through Spanish, Portuguese and English. And of course there's a lot of clapping and excitement and blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's actually when she put her first two feet out of the crate. So then everybody was even more excited because they were like, everyone's.

Scott (24:26)

Everyone froze for a moment, you know, again, went back and got really quiet.

Kat (24:29)

For a hot second.

Scott (24:31)

It's like, no, keep singing. Pardon me.

Kat (24:35)

So then we started joking about having to make noise and so on and so forth, but, you know, everybody kind of kept on doing their thing and the mood was super light, you know, for all the people waiting. And yes, we are happy when she comes out. But there was still just that, I think there was that leftover joy of how smoothly everything went and how well she did. And of course for a lot of people seeing the sanctuary for the first time, you know, what this life was actually going to look like for her, that everybody was light and conversational and chatting. And it wasn't that much later that she decided to take her back feet out, which then of course, everybody was overjoyed at.

Scott (25:16)

And the next day she didn't want to go outside, but she did explore the chutes, almost went outside until it was about 7:00 o'clock at night. 8:00 clock at night, yes. And then she's like, okay, now I'm going to go outside. So she went out and started walking around a little bit and exploring a little bit each day after, she just went further and further, taking down trees and almost right away. And the first tree she knocked down we have a video of it and she's like, whoops. It was really quite charming and, you.

Kat (25:49)

Know, definitely a face of. I just did that.

Nadia Mari (25:53)

Yeah, I had to really laugh about the video that you shared. I think it was something with Pupi comes for breakfast. And it reminded me of that scene from Jurassic park where you just see the whole forest vibrating, of the trees tops vibrating, and you hear the thunder in the ground. And then suddenly into the camp, this gigantic T. Rex comes. And I just had to, you know, the trees were rustling and everything was vibrating. And then, like, poopy just comes in. It was lovely.

Kat (26:19)

Yeah, you definitely. If you can't see her and you call her, you watch the treetops to see, because, I mean, she just. She definitely doesn't have any set paths at this point. And she is a little bit of that African elephant bulldozer mentality that, you know, she's just going to walk and if a tree is in her way, it's going to bump a little bit as she goes past. So, yeah, you can usually see her coming and then you can hear her, and then she'll pop up eventually.

Scott (26:48)

But she's eating bark, she's breaking branches. She's using all the water trough, she's using the mud wallow. She is rumbling. She looks radiant. Her skin is already improving. Her feces have already changed.

Kat (27:04)

She holds her head much higher than she did at the zoo.

Scott (27:07)

Posture is very different. And I sent a picture one day back to the caregivers and to the directors of the. And I just said, who is this girl? And she just looks completely different. And I think that was after being outside for just two days. You know, she just, you know, she's doing really well. Really, really well.

Kat (27:27)

She's very African.

Scott (27:28)

So now she just needs another elephant.

Nadia Mari (27:31)

Oh, my God.

Kat (27:31)

You sound like our supporters. Stop it. Can we have, like, you know, I don't know, a couple of weeks without needing to give her a friend yet?

Scott (27:42)

Well, on that note, we have to wait anyway because Kenya needs a little bit more time. They're still making some adjustments to the crate location. Just minor changes, but changing and fixing the gate and stuff. But also we are renewing the permits, which is actually going really, really well so far, knock on wood. Everything's aligned, so we should be able to have new permits in the next couple of weeks. And then we can. Once those permits are in hand, we can settle the next steps.

Nadia Mari (28:11)

Fantastic. Okay.

Scott (28:13)

I would like to share something, though, if I can. We have a picture, we'll send it to you. So you can put it in the show notes. This is from Tomas. Tomas is. He used to work at Eco Park Buenos Aires. He was coordinating a lot of the transformation in the logistics and of animal transfers around the globe.

Kat (28:29)

Sending all of their animals to sanctuaries.

Scott (28:31)

And the 900 and something animals they have sent. I mean, he was a fundamental part in many of those, many of those relocations. And as we've already talked about that Pupi was one of the last that will be going right now because many of them are either too old or they don't have proper place places for them, suitable places for them. So they are taking care of them there at the Eco Park. And he wrote this. He actually took the, the trip back by road and the first thing he did when they got back to Boneset is he went back to her enclosure and I am gonna cry. But he wrote the absurd amount of joy I'm feeling staring at this building, knowing that we've all ended more than 120 years of elephant captivity. Never again will these walls hold these magical creatures. I wanted to come running back to see it, see it like this quiet middle of the night, just a building. Now I'm all tears.

Kat (29:29)

Oh, yeah.

Scott (29:37)

Me too. I'm all tears.

Kat (29:39)

It wasn't just tears. It was boo boo face and everything.

Nadia Mari (29:42)

Oh, well, we haven't got a video podcast. We're not video podcast, so we won't be showing your faces. Okay.

Scott (29:49)

This relocation is huge. It is substantial. The transformation of the Eco park is. We've talked about it before. It's not happening anywhere else in the world. I mean, there's rarely a time that I go into a Z type facility and I feel at peace. And I did there it was just felt like almost coming home because of how good it is feels there, because of the work that they're doing. And to be a part of this and ending that history is something that every one of our listeners, any one of our supporters, every one of our followers can just take huge amount of pride in of. This is not just the relocation of an elephant. This is the end of elephants in the oldest zoo in South America. You know, it's a huge transformation forward. You know, times are changing, sometimes slower than we like, but things are changing for the better, for these lives, certainly for Pupi's lives, undoubtedly. And, you know, just another step forward for her and many more minds and hearts open to what possibilities exist.

Nadia Mari (30:50)

Oh, well, I'll let you go because you have another elephant to look after. Thank you as always for your time and as events are unfolding so fast. As I said at the beginning or to all our listeners, definitely follow GSE on their various social media platforms. Check out the videos on Facebook if you like reading, read the blog posts or Instagram everything. Because yeah, I think that is at the moment the most place to be to see all the current videos. And of course not only of Puppy, but of the five Asian elephants, of course our other girls. So thank you you2 and have a lovely afternoon. And again, congratulations on your new elephant daughter.

Scott (31:33)

Thank you very much. We appreciate the time to chat and sharing more with our followers and with you and we look forward to the next time.

Nadia Mari (31:40)

Bye N bye. As we wrap up this week's episode, a reminder that you can stay up to date with current events at the Sanctuary by following GSE on their various social media channels. You'll find all the details in the show notes or directly on their website global elephants.org thank you so much for your support and until we meet up for our next episode, take care.

Scott (32:12)

Sa.