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- [00:00]
A
Dear listeners, please note that this episode was recorded prior to Kenya's passing. Hello and welcome to Global Sanctuary for Elephants podcast. Global Rumblings. Global Sanctuary for Elephants, or GSE for short, is a non profit organization with a mission to create vast safe spaces for captive elephants where they are able to heal physically and emotionally, often from very traumatic pasts. I'm your host, Nadia Mari, and I'll be taking you to the lush jungle of the Mato Grosso region in central Brazil, home of GSE's initial project, Elephant Sanctuary Brazil, where Asian and African elephants lovingly referred to as the girls live, live their best lives. Hello, everyone. Welcome back and thank you for joining us again this week for a new episode of Global Rumblings. Today is in fact the last episode for 2025 and before we started recording, Scott told me that it has been raining the whole day in Brazil. Well, at least in the sanctuary. So if their microphones do pick up the rain, you will know what the noise is. So let's head over to Brazil to say hi to Kat and Scott got and see if they are still dry. Hi, you two.
- [01:27]
B
Hello, Nadia.
- [01:30]
A
So are you still dry?
- [01:32]
C
Not even in the house. It's one of those weird days. We get these. It's beautiful. I mean it is very Gorillas in the mist. It's stunning. The girls are all good with it, but it just, it's this wet mist that comes into the house and woke up this morning to half of the floor in our house being wet.
- [01:52]
B
So, yeah, it looks like somebody poured like buckets of water on the floor and it's not even like the hard rain coming in. Sometimes we get this hard rain blowing in and we can put, you know, close the doors and stuff. That wouldn't matter even if you close the doors. It's just so much humidity and this, like Kat said, you know, gorillas in the midst of these clouds coming through and misty, wafty clouds and it's just, yeah, very. Everything is hypersaturated.
- [02:15]
C
Yes. We have very, very saturated caregivers who were changing clothes at lunch because everything is wet down to the core.
- [02:24]
B
Barbara had the biggest smile when she came out with her dry clothes on. It feels so good from after five hours.
- [02:31]
A
How long did that last?
- [02:32]
B
Pretty well. They're eating lunch right now, so it was about four hours of hypersaturation. So they're dry now and we'll see what the afternoon brings. But it looks like more rain coming.
- [02:40]
A
You also said before we started recording, we were a little bit later today that you were out in the Elephant. So I don't know if you were out with a yardstick. Most probably not. But maybe we can sort out some of the confusion that I started. Big sorry to the GSE team. I've dubbed it Acre Gate. I got a little bit confused and was enlarging the habitat for the female Asians all over the place. So maybe you could just clarify the sizes that we are talking about.
- [03:07]
B
I'm not sure that I can anymore. I don't have so many numbers in my head. I don't know.
- [03:14]
C
Okay. So right now we have approximately 80 acres that the Asian elephants have access to. And the expansion will add about another 200. I mean, we never know until we have approximate places where the fences are going to go. But we work around trees and all sorts of things. So approximately 200 acres on top of the 80, 85 that they already have.
- [03:37]
A
Perfect. So that was my confusion. So it's we're starting off with 80 or 85 and I somehow thought we are starting off with 200 and adding another 200, making it 400. But no, the total after the female Asian habitat has been expanded will be 280, which still is a third of the S of Central park, like I said last time. Okay, so we've got Acre Gate sorted over and sorry again to. To the GC team, to. To Christine, Nicole and to Cara and to you as well, Scott and Kat. Yeah, maybe somebody else was confused as well, but maybe only I was confused.
- [04:12]
B
I was confused during the recording because, like, am I wrong or it's like maybe my numbers are wrong? No, because I didn't want to. It's like Nadia always knows best. Certainly Nadia more than I do. It seems like that's what it is.
- [04:25]
C
Even worse, I wasn't paying attention to the numbers. I was all excited about the different facts because that shows you how my brain works. So.
- [04:32]
B
But truly, no going back to the numbers. We don't always know what those sizes are until it's all done. When I was clearing for the African fence, it was going to be larger, but we ran into two very large springs. I ran into identified two large springs where by satellite map, it was more open and by flying over drone, it looked pretty open. And then when I was actually down there and clearing it, we ran into some really, really soggy ground and don't want to mess with the springs at all. So we quickly diverted and went different routes. So a little bit smaller. But that's what it takes when trying to balance between what elephants needs and preserving beautiful spots and really Special spots with those springs and in the habitat.
- [05:13]
A
Perfect. And this podcast comes out on the 30th of December. Would you believe it? Where has the year gone? It seems just like a couple of weeks ago that we were recording the last podcast for 2024. So obviously too early to say Happy New Year. But I presume Scott, glass of red wine falling asleep and cat burning the midnight oil. You can tell us later if that has changed. But it is also year end fundraiser so we still have two days time to hopefully meet your goal of $300,000. We talked only second part of your fundraiser last time because giving Tuesday was already over. But maybe Kat, you can actually clarify these numbers as well for us.
- [05:54]
C
Yes. So the focus for the entire end of the year was the expansion because you know, we've talked about it a million times how much impact space has both physically and mentally. So giving Tuesday we did the first 150,000 which we reached the goal which was great. We actually had. We were like $2,730 or something shy from the $150,000 mat. 150 total. And we had a donor who literally donated like the perfect amount to bring it up to the 150,000. So we met our 150,000 goal for giving Tuesday and for the end of the year we are going to be trying to raise another 150,000. Um, and we have a $75,000 match already. Again, we've had some really, really generous long time donors who understand the impact but also have a lot of faith in what we do with elephants and a lot of trust in the organization. So we have $75,000 match already set and we are trying to raise another 75,000 to raise 150,000 at the end of the year. 300,000 total which will go towards the expansion but is definitely not the full cost of the expansion just to not confuse people further.
- [07:17]
B
But it's a nice little chunk to get, get rolling with that Asian elephant half of that expansion. That expansion will probably take about six months to a year depending on weather. More days like today really impact progress.
- [07:29]
C
And then also you have the flip side of it. End of dry season, you can't, you can't weld because one spark starts fire.
- [07:37]
B
So yeah, but it's going, it's going to be exciting to have that expansion. It's super dynamic. It's, you know, compared to, you know, like when we were in Tennessee, the acreage was more. But the Dynamics of this 200 acres for the Asian elephants is phenomenal. It is going to be actually really difficult to manage them there because it is so dynamic and hidden pastures and hidden valleys. And that's really an amazing, amazing little plot.
- [08:01]
C
I was going to say. I know that, you know, for a lot of people, these are big numbers for end of the year fundraising, and they are big numbers, but, you know, a lot of people giving small amounts has such a significant impact. You know, we have people that often say, I can only give $5. It's like, well, if all of our supporters gave $5, it would actually pay for the entire expansion. So, you know, don't discount that amount of money. But also, I know some people get bombarded with requests for donations at end of the year. It's super common. Most Nonprofits raise about 65% of what they bring in for the entire year in the last couple of weeks of the year. So we know it's a bit.
- [08:47]
A
But, yeah, it is a. Well, but fantastic. And a huge shout out and a thank you to the group of your longtime, very dedicated donors who have given the $75,000 to. And I must say, I personally really dislike the word only. I can only do this. I'm only that. No, never. You know, I'm only the janitor. I'm only the secretary. Well, without you, you know, the company wouldn't be working. So I feel there's never only. And if you say, I'm going to, I don't know, not have a cup of coffee today and donate the amount for that. Well, whatever, $3 will then be $6 because of that fantastic match. So there are still two days when this podcast comes out, and I will put all the links into the show notes.
- [09:26]
C
If you're in the US and you want to make a gift that you can write off on. Yeah, that is a big thing. And talking about the only. Gonna go back to it for a second. We just last week had a cute little old lady who donated $3 cash. She mailed it in to our post office box for the end of the year fundraiser. And I love those donations. I still remember when somebody in Tennessee taped quarters to an envelope and mailed that in as their donation. It shows that. I don't know. I think it's really special when somebody doesn't have a lot to give, but they put so much of their heart into giving what they can. Yeah, I think it's beautiful. So don't ever feel bad about whatever it is you want to give.
- [10:13]
A
No. And don't ever say only. Only this, only that. No. Yeah, that's Perfect. That's a lovely story. Thanks for sharing that. So you said just now, Scott, that the female Asian habitat is going to take about half a year to a year to complete because it is a very diverse stretch of land. There's hills, there's ups and downs. You don't know how the fences are going to be set and going to be welded. So. But going back, maybe to looking back onto this year, 2025, before we move on to what's going to happen in 2026, I was looking at your elephant rescues and I was looking at the rescue bursaries. And for me, such a year was so much happening. So I was looking. You welcome Pupi. You welcome Kenya Pupi, your first female African elephant. Then she sadly passed away. We also had to say goodbye to Tammy at the Mendoza Eco park, the male Asian elephant, who unfortunately didn't make it to sanctuary. But I was looking at all the rebirth days, and that's so wonderful as well. Maya, nine years. Hana's rescueversary is coming up. Well, it will have been already when this podcast airs. Seven years. Bambi, five years. Mara, five years. Gigi, three years. And also she actually celebrated her actual birthday on the 19th of November, because like many other elephants, you actually know her birthday. And Kenya has nearly been with you for six months. So I thought that's also a very lovely and positive thing to talk about because nearly 30 years of freedom for your sanctuary elephants. So maybe looking back on the year, what was your highlight?
- [11:44]
B
I think for me, the year, the first half of the year went by so fast. You know, with the initial trips to start, the rescues, that didn't work out because we had to wait for four more time, you know, with, you know, waiting for Kenya's final blood work and then with boobies training. I mean, that whole episode, you know, through those two rescues, that was, I mean, it seemed like a blink in the eye, but that took almost six months. I mean, the whole together. There's a lot back and forth down there in South America. Huge milestone of 2025. No more elephants in Argentina. You know, that ended with Kenya's arrival. You know, Cameron's departure from Argentina. We had all hoped, as you said, that, you know, Tammy would be the last man standing and the last elephant leave, but he passed away before that happened, tragically. But there's still a lot to celebrate that with what has happened in Argentina. And I think for me, if we're looking at all of it, that's the biggest win that Argentina had made. That and so many Organizations and entities and individuals coming together to say, elephants don't belong in captivity. And Argentina is the first to say, as a country, no more, and make really positive action to make that happen and move those elephants out. Not just wait for them to die, but actually make positive action for them to go forward and find sanctuary. So there's so much to celebrate with.
- [12:59]
C
That and to create legislation so that no other elephants can ever be brought into the country. So it's not just emptying the zoos, you know, but, hey, if two years later, you know, somebody offers us this cute baby elephant, we'll just start all over again. They are trying to fully, fully close the door that.
- [13:19]
A
Yeah. 140 years. I remember, wasn't it? 140 years of elephants in captivity was ended when. Yeah, when. When Kenya left. Beautiful. And also, we. There was one day. I'm just. I just remembered World Animal Day. You did a small fundraiser for that. We hadn't talked about the last months about your rehab program. Obviously, you are Elephant Sanctuary Brazil. Your main focus is on elephants. But you have a beautifully diverse land. You have lots of wildlife. The word is spreading around that you have got the expertise. And I read up a story a couple of weeks ago about one of your tapers who'd come back and who was actually quite badly injured. Pushy, wasn't it? So is she fine? Is she better?
- [13:59]
C
Yeah, she's actually released back into the wild.
- [14:03]
A
Oh, lovely.
- [14:04]
C
Yeah. We weren't sure how that was gonna go. It was a pretty significant injury. And of course, some of the vets that we were discussing it with. Cause we were talking to orthopedic surgeons and other specialists, you know, discussed amputation, which, for a wild animal of that size is really an unfair life. She would have to stay in captivity. And even though, you know, we're not so bad, nothing like living out in the wild. So there were a lot of discussions about what was best for her, what was fair, what was feasible, and ended up going with just removing one of the bones just above her foot that was infected so that it didn't spread to the other bones, because it very much would have. And giving her high doses of a specific antibiotic for 60 days to try to ensure that it didn't show up in any of her other bones. While treating the big hole in her leg that she had. She was great. We created a little treatment chute for her. She would go from one enclosure to the other, and on her way back in, we'd close her in there, and she'd get her treatment, she was very relaxed. We did laser therapy, cleaning, topical therapy, I mean, you name it, she got the level of care we love to be able to give and she made it easy. And we did repeat X rays a couple of weeks before she was done with her antibiotics and shared them with the orthopedists and everything was all clear.
- [15:37]
B
Her son from two years ago, and we believe the one that she adopted from two years ago as well, kept visiting. They kept coming back almost every night. A lot of taper parties, a lot of footprints, a lot of pushing on the, on the enclosure from the inside and from the outside. So her trying to get out and trying to get in said, you know, you are a big strong girl, but we really, you need to stay here until your leg is healed. And everyone was amazed. And we are thrilled to be able to say that not only did she recover, she seemed to be doing exceedingly well when she was released.
- [16:11]
C
Yeah.
- [16:11]
A
So maybe next year another pushy baby.
- [16:14]
C
Maybe. I mean we took her off of non steroidal anti inflammatories just to make sure she was still comfortable. She was great with that. She was comfortable enough to try to climb up the wall to see if it was a possibility of escape, which it was not. I mean it's fully enclosed so there was nowhere to go, but she still wanted to give it a go. And that's essentially putting all of her weight on those both back legs and it didn't bother her at all.
- [16:41]
B
And most of our enclosures are not set up for a full grown taper and they're massive, you know, remember how many kilos she is? What was it determined?
- [16:50]
C
We were dosing between 150 and 200 kilos.
- [16:53]
B
She's not a small critter and you know, they, you know, were set up for, you know, young people.
- [16:58]
C
Oh no, we were doing 250 for her.
- [17:01]
B
I have no idea. Out of my grid. That's a medical side.
- [17:08]
C
The going back and forth between kilos and pounds in my brain. Sorry.
- [17:11]
B
So with all that, you know, our enclosures are not set up for large animals. You know, large, large, full grown tapers, generally it is going to be younger. Tamanda was longer. I can't think what that is in English. Anteaters and then with small deer and things of this nature, but adults know. So fortunately it all held up pretty well.
- [17:31]
C
Not the, not the space we had to keep her in. We have big yards that are made for. Once they're bigger, you know, pre release. It's like the last stage. But for her because she had to be so medically managed. She had to be in what would usually be like the starter space, which we put babies in, or arboreal species and that sort of thing. It's not like you said, it's not where you would usually have an adult of any species that's healthy. So it was definitely a test of our construction and how well it was going to hold up to anyone.
- [18:05]
B
Going back to success of 2025, you know, we had the harpy eagle, who endangered eagle, who was, you know, came here for a short time to learn how to fly and gain some strength. And he was released successfully up in the north of the next state to the north of us. We had the also highly endangered Agia synzenta. I can't think what they are. The. In English, I can't think where they are.
- [18:29]
C
No, we don't have them in the.
- [18:30]
B
U.S. but anything we have in the.
- [18:32]
C
U.S. i don't know the English names.
- [18:33]
B
Another highly dangerous eagle, Agia Cinzento, which I'll have to.
- [18:36]
A
Oh, no.
- [18:37]
B
Yes, the Shako eagle. Thank you. And then he's 1500 left in the wild. 1500 left in the wild. And they actually, or we believe it was him or her that returned at least three or four occasions hunting and one time seen up in the trees actually on the day after Poopy arrived. There's a photograph of them relatively near the African barn with another one, a pair of them, which is super exciting. So, yeah, there's a lot to. A lot to celebrate with the wildlife rehab program. Owls. We have an owl that's now hanging out near the house at night with a baby. So it could be one that we released last year or just one of the many native ones that are already here. But a lot to celebrate with the wildlife program.
- [19:15]
A
So looking forward to 2026 before time runs out. I remember from my last recording a big plan for 2026 is that you're going to go on holiday and not work.
- [19:26]
B
I will say that something really, you know, we just came back from a little bit for us, a very extended trip of 30 days away. We had multiple stops to make some of it work, some of it work, some of it family. But it was really exciting to come back to the sanctuary and seeing where everybody was. And it made us realize just how far along they have all come. And I think one thing I'm excited for is the possibility to be able to step up away from Brazil more and more. That allows us to help other organizations as well. You know, Pangea has helped us to go many times. Elephant Haven has asked us to go visit. Maybe this is the year that we get to step out and, you know, spread our wings a little bit more and see what we can do to help other organizations. Because of what's happening here on site is really remarkable. And how that team on all sides, the animal care team, maintenance, construction, administrative teams, are all doing just exceedingly well.
- [20:22]
C
And those are organizations we already help, but we help from a distance. You know, we've never actually gone to either place. You know, possibly being able to help another organization with the rescue or care of an elephant is something that, you know, we haven't been able to do. But I think one of the things, I think that happens when we're here all the time is people rely on us being here all the time. So instead of trying something new on their own, or trying to push past a boundary or doing something new or what have you, they just, they know they can call one of us and we can do it and they don't have to worry about it. So stepping away and them not having that security blanket, I think shifted how people were doing things and how they functioned and also allowed them to gain more self confidence in their own abilities that they've always had, but they've just never really had to rely on or notice.
- [21:21]
B
No, I think that's the biggest thing for me is that self confidence is huge. You know, it's like, no, I can actually do this. I do know what I'm doing. You know, and we all have those doubts. And one of the things that we've been able to talk about recently is, you know, just because you see me go in and do something that seems like I'm comfortable doesn't mean I know exactly what I'm doing. You know, every day it's different. Every situation a little bit different. And, you know, I have those insecurities and I have those moments where it's like, am I still doing the right thing? And, you know, just finding comfort in that process and just encouraging that with them. But that self confidence allows them to be in that space where they say, I'm not 100 sure, but let me try. And when you try and succeed, you know, both, you know, the elephant and the individual grow that much further. So it's just been. It's an exciting time. The boys with the maintenance and construction, all that they're taking on and understanding more of that dynamics, and it's just. It's just exciting. And it goes back to what GSE was supposed to do, which is come and help facilitate the development and build that foundation and help create an organization that can stand on its own. And we're getting closer and closer to that. It's just an exciting time for. For both these organizations.
- [22:25]
C
And of course, we're never going to fully walk away. That's nothing. We're not saying anything like that. But, you know, with them being more secure, it does allow us, like we said, to go other places and help and still come here and, you know, for anything that's needed, even just to be here for a few months and be at the sanctuary. Because it is lovely. The elephants are lovely. Everything's lovely.
- [22:53]
A
Yeah. And your organization, as we've talked about in previous episodes, is Global Sanctuary for Elephants and Elephant Sanctuary. Brazil is your first pilot project and you do consult and you do advise. So, yes, welcome to Europe. Obviously close. Nearer to come down to Portugal or to France than it is to fly over to Brazil. So, yes.
- [23:15]
B
The initial plan was three to five, three to five years. And we are actually next week celebrating 10 years of our arrival on the property. Next week, our recording time. So right around, I think it was December 16th or 17th, I don't remember what the date was, we arrived onto the property, actually moved onto the property. And so, yeah, 10 years later and, you know, it's silently getting to where it needed to be, but lots of hurdles, but lots of success. So.
- [23:40]
A
So after 10 years, having a holiday without work is okay, I think.
- [23:45]
B
I'm still not sure that that's gonna happen, actually. We may have a holiday, but a holiday without work, without a phone call, without emails, I don't know. I don't know that that's possible. Cats to give me cats. Smiling. But I'm not sure what kind of smile that is.
- [24:02]
C
No, I think the thing is, usually when we go away, we're still going to a conference, going to visit an elephant at a zoo to check on their. Well, there's never. It's not just emails and phone calls. There's always something active that we are doing for the sanctuary or for elephants. So I don't expect a full disconnect. I mean, especially not the first time. I mean, I'm not delusional, but I think at vacation where we don't go anywhere that has anything to do with elephants and we just go somewhere to enjoy is the goal. I'm keeping it.
- [24:38]
B
Yeah. Actually, the last. A couple of days ago, somebody asked us to participate in a conference about ethology and it's on the east coast and it's like, oh, we've never been there before. So there you go. Another location that is associated with a work conference. So we'll see.
- [24:54]
A
Well, send me your itinerary and I'll have a look over it and see if it's, if the work life balance, you know, this new age word, if it's considered enough in, in your itinerary.
- [25:04]
C
Yeah, we haven't even decided on place yet. We're tossing around Scotland, New Zealand. There's a bunch of different places that we've never been, so we have no idea where we're even going yet.
- [25:15]
A
That's how far Scotland can be cold. I mean, you like the heat, so Scotland. Well. Okay, you two, it's time to say goodbye for this year. Season three is over. We recorded 15 episodes. And before I say goodbye and thank you to you, I'd just like to take the opportunity and say a big thank you to all our listeners because without you listening and tuning into our podcast, I mean, us three would just be sitting here having a nice chat and not, not spreading the word about what elephants needs, what captive elephant needs in the world. So, yes, thank you to all our listeners. And I am sitting on an email with a load of Spotify statistics, but I can't be bothered to read those because I must say that the podcast that we give away that we had a couple of weeks ago just shows how many people are tuning in. So I think that says that more than the podcast statistics from Spotify. As I said, we had over 40 people writing in for the mug. So yes, we are out there. Thank you for tuning in every week. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for your kind comments, thank you for your emails and thank you as always, Kat and Scott, for all your time, for sharing your expertise, for sharing laughter, for sharing tears. And yeah, here's to a lovely 2026 with a sort of holiday slash work respite for you too for the expansion of the female Asian habitat to 280 acres approximately. And yes, maybe some more elephant rescues. Yeah, just a lovely 2026 for your staff. For you, for the elephants, for the wildlife.
- [26:52]
B
Yeah, and for you too, Nadia. Thank you so much again for another lovely year and for keeping this moving forward and keeping us moving forward with this. It's been a pleasure. It's always a pleasure keeping us on.
- [27:03]
C
Schedule, keeping us on a leash. You know, two things that are never easy with the two of us with all the directions we're running in and everything's going on, forcing us to sit down for 30 minutes and chat.
- [27:13]
A
It's like herding fleas sometimes, but it's. Yeah, it's great. It's great fun.
- [27:18]
B
Elephant. Are you seer?
- [27:20]
A
Okay, so all the details will be in the show notes regarding your expansion for the last two days. If you are able to donate, then please do. Or if you can share the fundraiser, that's fantastic as well. And as we talked about before, never say I can only give something, because without all of you, the work of GSE just wouldn't be possible. So thank you again for all your generosity and. Okay, you two. Scott, glass of red wine, falling asleep before midnight. Cat burning the midnight oil or any other plans for New Year's Eve this year?
- [27:53]
B
Oh, probably not. That sounds about right.
- [27:58]
A
Let's not break a running system.
- [28:00]
B
No. Happy New Year. And to go back to. Only for one more second before we run out of time here we started back in 1995 is maybe there's a possibility we could help four elephants. And look what's happened in the 30 something, 35 years since we didn't start this in 1995. No, but the first expensive sanctuary. And you know, never doubt those first steps can do. And if that's $5, don't doubt the impact that that has. You know, it really. Just do what you can where you can and keep plugging forward because you can all change the world together.
- [28:33]
C
Yeah. And again, like you said, sharing. Sharing is huge. You know, with people, with their friend groups, social media. You know, just if you can't give, that doesn't mean that if you share it, someone else won't. And even if somebody else doesn't, just educating somebody else on the fact that sanctuaries for elephants exist and creating the spark of wondering why would you need a sanctuary for elephants? And where that goes is how all of this happens.
- [29:00]
B
So great.
- [29:01]
C
All makes a difference.
- [29:03]
A
It does.
- [29:04]
B
All right, Nadia, thanks again. Happy New Year.
- [29:06]
A
Thanks again.
- [29:07]
C
Happy New Year, everybody.
- [29:11]
A
See you in 2026. Bye.
- [29:14]
C
Goodness.
- [29:15]
A
That's all that we have time for this week. We hope you enjoyed the podcast and if you did, don't forget to subscribe. Hit the notification bell so you never miss an episode. Another great zero cost way to support the the podcast is by leaving a five star rating or a glowing review as this helps other people discover the podcast. Thank you so much for your support and until we meet up for our next episode, take care.