Loading summary
Transcript53 lines
- [00:18]
A
Hello and welcome to Global Sanctuary for Elephants podcast. Global Rumblings. Global Sanctuary for Elephants, or GSE for short, is a non profit organization with a mission to create vast, safe spaces for captive elephants where they are able to heal fish physically and emotionally, often from very traumatic pasts. I'm your host, Nadia Mazzarati, and I'll be taking you to the lush jungle of the Mato Grosso region in central Brazil, home of GEC's initial project, Elephant Sanctuary Brazil, where four Mizuan circus elephants from across South America live their best lives. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Global Rumblings and thanks for joining us again this week. We're so sorry that we weren't able to bring you a podcast in February, but Kat and Scott's schedule just didn't allow it. But it's March and we're back and we have some exciting things to share with you. So let's head over to Brazil to say hi to Kat and Scott. Hi, you two. Hey, Nadia.
- [01:17]
B
We both just looked at each other to wait for the other one to say hi first.
- [01:20]
C
Hello, Nadia. How are you?
- [01:22]
A
I'm fine, I'm fine.
- [01:23]
C
It's been a long time.
- [01:24]
A
Yeah, it's been a long time. His life has calmed down a little bit on your end, but we'll talk about that in a minute, huh?
- [01:31]
B
Sure, sure.
- [01:31]
A
So before we dive in today's podcast and share some good news, we want to give away a spontaneous podcast Binge Award 2025, which goes to a wonderful listener in Australia who binge listened to 65 episodes in December. That is over 32 hours. So that is quite a feat. I thought I was quite a podcast binger, but no. She came across us when she heard about or saw Puppi's rescue and then she woke up one night to follow Kenya's journey to freedom when she was relocated and since then discovered the podcast. Yes, 32 and a half hours later, she's caught up and she's a great fan. So lots of love to Australia. Devious05, you know who you are. Thank you very much and congrats on winning Our podcast binge awards 2025.
- [02:27]
C
Congratulations and thank you. I am so sorry you listened to 32 Hours, Scott and Cat, but it's really excited that we can share this and allow people to go back through that, through this platform and see a little bit more and get a little more insight. We actually just finished with a special guest who won a trip for through our auction, that is a three day visit to Sanctuary and we were talking about podcast stuff and we can dive even deeper. I said, there's so much that you don't have time to talk about. So we got into even more details of it, but they're still. The podcast gives a pretty good overview. And at some point sometime in the future, when Kat writes her book, you'll get even more detail.
- [03:11]
B
Oh, please don't say that. People are going to take it seriously and they're going to be like, what?
- [03:15]
C
Are you serious? You know that. You know that it has to come because there's so much more to share. You know, the podcast only goes so far because there's. There really is so much more detail in all of those stories. But the podcast is brilliant for giving that really very solid background to most of the pieces that it took to get to where we are.
- [03:33]
A
Well, there are ghost writers and there are dictation machines and there is AI. So, Kat. Yeah, just. Just talk to any AI of your choice. And when can we await the book? No, only putting your leg. So I did say at the beginning that we have got some. Some good news to talk about, and that is in case listeners haven't caught up with your posts on social media and your. The temporary suspension of the license has been lifted. So tell us about that.
- [04:00]
B
I don't think I'm the best one to talk about this. I'm still a little bitter. I'm not gonna lie.
- [04:06]
C
So it is good news. You know, we actually asked for a, not necessarily injunction, but a review of the initial paperwork that we sent in and asked them to immediately revoke that or to return that operation license or the. The license that will allow us to receive more animals. And they did. That does not mean it's done. We've had a few people who said, I'm so glad. This over, of course, is not over. It is a good step forward. It does never over. It does show that they are seeing that a little bit more of the truth behind the picture and behind the social media chaos, the negative influencers, they're seeing that. The reality is that we are still a very standup organization. We still have a very solid position, and we still have, you know, the full ability to function. And through that, it's not done. They actually have. We have to provide many, many more reports in about another 45 days. So we're working on gathering some of that information just to give them a full perspective. Some of it actually had gone back and they dug up old things that we've already resolved, you know, over and over and over again and old questions that have Been resolved, you know, and just doubts and resolved with them.
- [05:24]
B
Not like resolved with the general public. But, you know, anytime SEMA or Obama has a question, we have to go through all of this explaining ourselves and procedures and, you know, complaints about Gita's necropsy took too long because we actually let Maya say goodbye to her. You know, it's just some of the ridiculous things we've had conversations about over and over again in the past and all being brought back up again. So. And the part of it that I get a little bit bitter about is, well, there's multiple parts, but it sucks. We've always had a good relationship with both organizations. You know, they've been here multiple times. Ebamma was just here in August, you know, and said everything was great and everything's fantastic. And SEMA has always said everything's great. This place is fantastic. You take such good care of your elephants. It's why they send their wildlife here. And it just takes one person of influence and all of the people that he can wrangle to flip that on its head. And it's just, it's ridiculous because as we mentioned, nobody else can come even remotely close to the standard of care that we provide. And it's not just the space, it is the medical care, it is the training. It's everything. And no one in this country comes even remotely like, can't see us from miles away, close. But as is always, sanctuaries are held to a different standard and we will continue to uphold our standards and prove that we are the best place for elephants.
- [06:58]
A
Yeah, it's politics. And talking of which, uphold the standards and equal scrutiny, there is still your petition online. So if you all the listeners could please sign the petition and share it with somebody to double that because I think at the moment it's got about 15,000, which isn't bad, but hey peeps, we can do better than that. So that is good news. So just I remember from the last podcast you said that you had a. Possibly a fox coming. So can he or she now come for your wildlife rehab or.
- [07:27]
B
We haven't even talked about that with them. You know, we're still trying to navigate the nonsense. So that hasn't been brought up. Who knows what they did with them because he was really tame because as is typical, they treat them like pets before they get sent to us, which just add to the list of things that are done improperly by other people. So who knows where they sent him.
- [07:54]
A
I'm a bit sidetracked now because I've Got that song in my head isn't over till it's over. And I can't.
- [08:00]
B
Please don't do that because I'll start singing in my head and I'll hear it all night.
- [08:05]
A
I already am.
- [08:06]
B
Stop it. Bad Nadia.
- [08:08]
A
Okay, so we given away our award to DVS05 in Australia. The good news is that the license has been lifted again, or the suspension of the license, even though you still got a load of paperwork to do. And the nonsense is still continuing. But it is a step in the right direction. I was looking at some podcast stats the other day and did you know that I. Only a third of the podcasts new podcasts survive the first year and under. Roughly about a half of the podcasts don't make it over three episodes. So here we are, season four, our fourth year, and we are at episode. This is 67. So yes, congratulations to us. Raise the podcast mug and a big thank you. A big thank you to all our listeners. And we have the last three years. Wow, what have we done, huh? We introduced you two and asked how you came into elephant advocacy. We talked about the crisis of captive elephants in South America, but not only in South America, also in the world. That's why you form Global Sanctuary for Elephants. This is obviously a very brief and very short summary. We talked about Rambur, Chile's last circus elephant. We jumped on all 19 planes with you to travel around Brazil to find the right property. We mucked out and cleaned out the little mouse infected bathroom cabinet with you in your first location in Brazil. We sang along to the drum roll and of that place that you stayed in. And we slept on your, on your very slouchy mattresses in your first accommodation as well. So we've been with you. We found the property, we laughed and we're very happy. Tears of joy when you got your first elephant. And we cried when we had to say goodbye to our elephants. And we've talked a lot about daily happenings at the sanctuary. But it is now time, I think after now three years, we've caught up with the 10 years of you being in Brazil to take a step back and actually talk more about elephants. So we have now decided that we will do a slight topic shift from the daily updates that we do and the daily happenings at the sanctuary. So yeah, maybe you can tell our listeners what we've come up with.
- [10:22]
C
I think for me, you know, this goes back to the beginning of the podcast and people kept wanting to say we want to hear more. We want to hear more of The. The insight that you have to elephants.
- [10:34]
B
The.
- [10:34]
C
And we've covered a lot of topics through the experience of these other elephants, you know, through the experience with the elephants here. But we kind of just grazed the surface on some of those. And I think when, you know, we've. When we've had comments back from the. About the podcast, a lot of times people just say that was. You know, they're fascinated by some of those. When we dig into those topics a little bit more. So we're going to kind of go back a little bit.
- [10:59]
B
And when we've been at conferences and stuff, people would say, you know, you guys talk about stuff nobody else talks about, because I think a lot of. A lot of people are scared to talk about the struggles and the negative, you know, and just portray the positivity and the puppies and the rainbows. And that's. Anybody who works at a sanctuary knows that that's 20%, maybe not to be negative, but there are a lot of hardships at sanctuary. So I think it's good to be able to talk about some of these topics in depth that don't always result in positive experiences at sanctuary, you know, for different animals, for elephants, so on and so on.
- [11:42]
C
Yeah, it's the individual struggles, but that goes back into when we talk about elephant communication. What is the nature of elephant communication? Okay, that's one thing. What is the nature of elephant communication with a traumatized individual? Completely different topic. And for that individual, vastly different than the next individual. And then that goes. Even goes into the human element of it and talking about what it means to be caregiver and, you know, how to be a good caregiver and just kind of diving deeper into those topics. I mean, even today, I was talking to one of our team members who has a family member who's ill, and she said, I've never, you know, expressed some of the emotion that she's expressing. She said, I've always bottled everything up. And I said, yes, elephants are good at cracking you open, you know, and they expose us to something very different, you know, in a broader spectrum of emotion, both happy and sad. And, Sarah, the sad is sadder, but the happier is also vastly happier, but just going in. And she said to me, you know, I've worked with elephants for a bunch of years. She said, that's not everywhere. That's here, you know, so it goes back to, again, the nature of elephants, but the nature of sanctuary and the nature of a sanctuary that gives a substantial space and substantial autonomy and, you know, infinite level of Respect and just all those different elements tied in to it and trying to break those down a little bit more. As you guys all know, I tend to jump from topic to topic so you guys get to heard the herd, the butterflies. So we're going to work hard to create somewhat of an outline and Nadia is going to get paid overtime for keeping us on track as we dive into some of these other topics. For those that don't know, Nadia doesn't get paid, Nadia has been volunteering many hours for many years. So thank you Nadia.
- [13:32]
A
My pleasure. I will endeavor to herd fleas and hopefully when we have got the outline of the new series more in into shape, then I can like tick it off and, and, and, and keep you, keep you on track. So yeah, that's really interesting because when we're actually talking about the outline, it's not only about who elephants are and what we can learn from them, but also we will then dive into topics like what price does the body pay of an elephant if they are in captivity? Unfortunately we know with pupi and Kenya passing, we know what that means. Also what are the actual herd dynamics? Who, who are elephants? You know, we say this, they're matriarchs, they live in a herd, they, they, they co rear. But what does it actually mean for such an emotional being to then possibly be split from a herd calf capture or a load of elephants being, I don't know, imported to for instance to Japan, which happened last year. What does that actually mean? You know, it would be like somebody coming into a family of 10 and just kidnapping five and taking them away. So what are we actually doing to elephants? And then we wanted to dive or we will dive into. What does reach research say? What does the brain of an elephant, you know, what are they actually capable of emotionally? Things like that. So what does the research say? And then, then what I find very interesting is the history of keeping elephants. You know, why did we actually start showing elephants, you know, in captivity? Goes back to Royal Menageries or P.T. barnum, things like that. So it is a huge topic and if there is anything that you as a listener would like to, to hear about or learn more about, do send us an email to podcastlobalelephants.org and then we can add your, your thoughts and your questions into our outline as well. So that is definitely something that will keep us occupied throughout the year and next year as well, I am sure. But that of course doesn't mean that if there is an elephant rescue coming up that we will not talk about. It, of course we will. Everything that is, of course, sanctuary related or current events will be talked about, but this is the broader outline. And yeah, we, we hope you, you look forward to, to hearing more about that. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to it as well.
- [15:35]
C
I'm going to tie that back into some of the current events also because it talked about the history of keeping animals in captivity and that ties right into where we are right now, which is it's why do we as a society who knows better still continue to accept a life for elephants and justify a life for elephants that is known to be detrimental and sanctuary is fought against? You know, and there's just, I think it dives into that. Those cultural norms that we have. You mentioned the impact on the elephant's body, the impact on a caregiver's body too. If we can bring caregivers back into that a little bit, then everyone's walking around with sore backs and feeling like we're not 30 years old. I'm definitely not 30 years old, but there's a lot of, there's a lot to explore with all of this. And since we're not into that new, very structured mode yet, I need to go back in time for a minute, Nadia, because one of the things I failed to talk about was when we're talking about the permits or the licensing, there's several different things going on that have brought different people out. There's a process that's taking place that is outside of us as an, started by another organization. But with this and all that has happened in social media and the permit, some folks are coming out are have a lot of questions. And we just had a visit recently of a group of professionals that was appointed by a judge. They're actually from a veterinary council, Federal veterinary council. And they couldn't say much because, you know, they are unbiased coming in and it is part of it.
- [17:07]
B
By the way, they didn't visit just us. The judge ordered them to visit all three facilities involved. The facility that has the elephant, the facility that they want to send her to, and then the facility that the animal rights group wants to send her to, which is us. So these three people visited each of the, all of us.
- [17:25]
C
One of them was a veterinarian and former director of a prominent zoo here in South America and in Brazil. And as soon as they walked up, all three of them said, wow, you know, and you know, they, again, they can't go into detail because they are, they are providing a, you know, it's an official review One of the people that was accompanying them from a different veterinary council was not part of that official team. He was just there as a driver. And at the end of that visit, he said, the sanctuary is completely demystified now. He said, I never imagined that you guys could do and are doing what you're doing. He said, I've heard the stories, I've seen the videos. And then he said, I heard all the stuff on social media and saw that backlash. And he said, none of that is true. It's just unfathomable what you guys are able to do and the life that you can provide. And this is what's happening. You know, through this hardship, through this chaos, I think people are going to have an opportunity to really learn the depth of truth that had previously not necessarily been ignored, but not been fully recognized. We have more visits coming up, official visits coming up here for various things, and we look forward to that continuing.
- [18:38]
B
And part of it is we don't want to bash all of the other facilities in Brazil because it doesn't serve. We want them to be open to us, even if it's just like one of the zoos early on coming here to watch our training to help them with one of their elephants and everything that wasn't working with their training. You know, we don't necessarily have to have their elephant come here in order to help. You know, it can be anything. And if we start talking about all of the needs that aren't met and all of the pitfalls and where everybody falls short and that sort of stuff, clearly that doesn't help that relationship and is not going to help any of those elephants. So it doesn't serve us. But unfortunately, what it does now is when other people attack us. The only negativity that's out there is of the sanctuary instead of the zoo facilities, because we've never done that.
- [19:27]
C
So I think what, again, perspective on some of this. I know we're running out of time. The asking people taking half a step back when they say, oh, but the zoo has five veterinarians and you only have two. The zoo has 1,300 animals and you have five veterinarians. You know, you're supposed to do an annual review of each of those animals, minimum every year that's without other health issues. And you have 1,300 animals. That is multiple animals a day that you have to do a full assessment on. And you have five veterans to do it, including days off, including vacation time, including all those things. And actually, one of the zoos has 1,500 animals, and they have three veterinarians. You know, we visited a zoo that had 1,200 animals and they had one veterinarian. And I recently came up, somebody talked about how many years Matthias has been working with elephants. Our veterinarian, and it's like, yeah, he has five years here. You know, you may have a veterinarian who's worked in a Zoo for 10 years with one elephant. You know, Matthias has five years with much more comprehensive care with almost nine elephants that he's worked with. Now, you know, these geriatric conditions. Matthias, you are probably the leading veterinary authority on elephants in South America, or at least in Brazil. And I think this whole thing is going to just, again, provide perspective on this, of not only what we're capable of, but some of the shortfalls that are in zoos that are often ignored or accepted, such as three veterinarians for over a thousand animals. There's no way you can provide the care that those animals need.
- [20:53]
A
That does sound very promising. And it ties back to what you said when we finished off last podcast. I said, so all will be well again. And Kat said, yes, it will, because goes around and comes around. I'm not going to think of that song. And it is. And as you said, Scott, as well, this will actually. Let's take this opportunity. The suspension of the license has now been lifted, but let's take this opportunity, really shine a light on what is happening. And maybe at the beginning it didn't look like it would serve the sanctuary, but it sounds like at the moment it is, because it's all backfiring on the people and the authorities are coming and having a look and having to say, whoopsie, I can't believe everything was on social media.
- [21:37]
B
The vets who just came, they have to write up official reports that will be submitted to a judge and will become public record. And then we've never had anyone come look at our facilities because with all of these cases, it's just the experts going to the facility they're at because of lack of care. So for us, you know, we don't see that visit as a negative. I think it's great that we're going to have official veterinary board reports that we can then reference afterwards. And when people say, you know, oh, you don't do this, you don't do this, it's like, actually, we do look
- [22:14]
C
at this report from the Federal Veterinary Council.
- [22:18]
B
Yeah. So I think it's great that part at least I'm still going to be better. I'm not letting go of that yet.
- [22:25]
C
We haven't seen the report, so I think it's going to be great. I hope it's going to be great. I mean, there's no indication of, you know, anything wrong. I mean, there is. It really was a. A very comprehensive review.
- [22:36]
B
And our girls are so good. I mean, everybody is always ridiculously impressed with the ease in which we can work with them and how willing they are when it comes to participation with treatments and foot care and how calm everything stays and how pos it is. They just. It's not what any of them have seen before, so it ends up being impressive. Our girls are rock stars.
- [23:02]
C
They are rock stars.
- [23:03]
B
And our caregivers.
- [23:05]
C
Absolutely.
- [23:05]
B
Yeah.
- [23:06]
C
You know, and you rock stars as well, in that I don't know that.
- [23:10]
B
We definitely have our moments.
- [23:13]
C
Surely, when that. When that team showed up, we had Bambi, Maya, and Giza along defense. They had just had breakfast and treatments and checkups, and you had three different caregivers working with each of the elephants in three different scenarios, doing three different things. And it was just seamless and calm and peaceful and very sanctuary. And again, it's. That's what it's all about. And you have elephants that, you know, maybe one elephant in a zoo that can't even get basic foot care done. So it really shows a positive light of what our team and what the sanctuary is capable of.
- [23:46]
A
Oh, great. Well, that's a lovely, lovely note to end on. Very Zen for my. For my Saturday evening and hopefully very Zen for many listeners. I remember on your Facebook support group, Friends of Global Sanctuary Fellow, for some people were so. Still so upset and so, you know, so enraged that it could happen. So I hope this. Well, obviously they know the news already, but, you know, let's all calm down and take some Zen and take a deep breath, and that is. Yeah, that's a great thing. Thanks for sharing that. So, yes, I will endeavor to herd fleas and make sure that we catch up for our next podcast recording, despite your schedule. So any vets coming to to look at the sanctuary? If you do come on our podcast recording day, you're going to have to join in as well. So we can't have our listeners waiting five weeks again for another podcast. You know, we come out every three weeks. So, yeah, have a lovely afternoon. And, yeah, I'm sitting here smiling and I'm very feeling very happy, and that's great. Thank you for sharing that.
- [24:46]
C
Thank you, Nadia. Thank you for your patience with us, guiding us through all this, and good luck. And opening this. Congratulations and good luck continuing to open this pathway to our supporters, followers, and new folks wanting to learn more, not only about the sanctuary, about elephants in general.
- [25:04]
A
Oh, my pleasure. Yeah. Maybe I can ask for a T shirt herding fleas to be added to your T shirt collection.
- [25:11]
C
We can do that.
- [25:13]
A
Okay, you two catch up then for our next recording. Bye.
- [25:17]
C
Take care, Nadia.
- [25:18]
A
As we wrap up this week's episode, a reminder that you can stay up to date with current events at the Sanctuary by following GSE on their various social media channels. You'll find all the details in the show notes or directly on their website, globalelephants.org thank you so much for your support. And until we meet up for our next episode, take care.