Debunking Common Misconceptions About the Rhode Acquisition

Summary

Gloss Angeles Podcast Summary

Episode: Debunking Common Misconceptions About the Rhode Acquisition
Release Date: June 3, 2025
Hosts: Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan

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Introduction and Personal Anecdotes [00:34 - 01:59]

The episode begins with Kirbie and Sara exchanging greetings and sharing personal anecdotes. Sara mentions her father Greg Tan’s birthday, adding a personal touch to the conversation. They humorously discuss minor tech experiments, like Sara using FaceApp on Greg, and highlight the daily interactions they have with their father through his "outfit of the day" photos. This segment sets a friendly and relatable tone for the episode.

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ELF’s Acquisition of Rhode: Initial Reactions and Misconceptions [01:31 - 05:18]

Kirbie and Sara delve into the major news of ELF acquiring Rhode, expressing their excitement and surprise. Kirbie shares her initial reaction, “[02:31] Kirby: I was like, I can't. I was so excited to tell you this information, I was like, Rhode is selling to ELF? This is crazy.” They address the widespread attention the acquisition has received, noting how it dominated headlines and social media discussions.

Key Misconceptions Addressed:

1. Price Increases Due to Acquisition [03:18 - 05:18]:

   • Kirbie: “The first one that we've seen is that ELF increased their prices because of the Rhode acquisition.”
   • Sara: Confirms that prior to the acquisition news, both Naturium and ELF had already announced a $1 price increase.
   • They clarify that the price hike was part of ELF’s tariff mitigation strategy, not directly due to the acquisition.
   • Official Statement from ELF: “[03:28] Kirby: They said, pricing is a part of our overall tariff mitigation plan that has three key vectors, pricing, supply chain optimization and business diversification.”

2. ELF as a Conglomerate [05:18 - 06:40]:
   Kirbie compares ELF’s trajectory to major conglomerates like L’Oréal and Coty, suggesting ELF is positioning itself to become a dominant player in the beauty industry. They reflect on past rumors about Rhode's potential acquisition and how ELF emerged as the actual acquirer.

   • Kirbie: “[05:18] We felt that L’Oréal was not the right pick.”

---

Details of the Acquisition Deal [06:40 - 10:16]

The hosts break down the financial and strategic aspects of the acquisition:

• Financial Terms:

  • Sara: “[07:14] The acquisition includes $800,000 in cash and $200 million in ELF stock, with an additional $200 million contingent on performance over the next three years.”
  • They emphasize that while the headline figure wasn’t a full billion dollars, the stock component significantly enhances the deal's value.

• Strategic Importance:

  • Kirbie: “[08:18] Road has doubled their consumer base and made $212 million with just nine SKUs.”
  • Highlighting Rhode’s impressive growth without extensive paid marketing, the hosts underscore why ELF found Rhode an attractive acquisition.

• Role of Hailey Bieber:

  • Sara: “[10:16] Hailey is stepping away from Rhode. She is not only founder but also the Chief Creative Officer and Head of Innovation.”
  • Kirbie: Emphasizes Hailey’s integral role and the strategic advisor position assigned to her by ELF, showcasing her ongoing influence.

---

Comparison with Other Major Acquisitions [10:16 - 16:43]

Kirbie and Sara compare ELF’s acquisition of Rhode to other significant deals in the beauty industry:

• IT Cosmetics and Facial Beauty:

  • Kirbie: “[14:35] In 2016, IT Cosmetics sold to L’Oréal for $1.2 billion cash.”
  • Sara: Mentions Faced by Estee Lauder for $1.44 billion, highlighting the celebratory parties that followed these acquisitions.

• ASAP and Deciem:

  • Kirbie: “[15:52] In 2023, ASAP was acquired by L’Oréal for $2.5 billion, the highest at that time.”
  • Sara: Notes Deciem’s full acquisition by Estee Lauder in 2024 for $1.7 billion.

The hosts point out that Rhode’s rapid acquisition within three years is unprecedented compared to these longstanding brands, positioning ELF as a formidable new conglomerate.

---

Future Implications for ELF and Rhode [16:43 - 19:37]

Pricing Strategy:

• Kirbie: “[16:32] Will Rhode decrease their prices? No. Point blank, period.”
• Emphasizes that Rhode will maintain its masstige pricing model as it expands into Sephora, targeting a different customer base and ensuring price stability.

Operational Synergies:

• Sara: Predicts collaboration between Rhode, ELF, and Naturium, although Kirbie mentions doubts about shared manufacturing facilities.
• They speculate on potential product development and supply chain optimizations resulting from the acquisition.

Industry Impact:

• Sara: “[19:37] This is really great for the beauty industry.”
• The hosts believe the acquisition signals a robust future for celebrity-owned beauty brands and could inspire other brands to seek acquisitions by larger conglomerates like ELF.

---

Tower 28’s Sunscreen Controversy [20:04 - 35:31]

Shifting focus, Kirbie and Sara discuss the recent drama surrounding Tower 28’s SOS Face Guard broad-spectrum SPF 30 sunscreen.

Claims vs. Reality:

• Product Description: Marketed as having “no white cast” and being suitable for all skin types, including those with conditions like eczema and rosacea.
• Julian Sass’s Review:
  • Kirbie: “[24:05] He reached out to the Tower 28 team prior to posting this particular review.”
  • Julian Sass criticized the product for leaving a visible white cast despite claims of being cast-free.

Brand’s Response:

• Sara: Amy, the founder, issued an apology acknowledging the oversight:
  • Sara: “[25:03] Amy posted an apology stating they failed their customers by missing the mark on truly cast-free formula.”

Community Reactions:

• The hosts highlight the disappointment within marginalized communities, particularly Black consumers, who feel the claims excluded their skin tones:
  • Kirbie: “[30:40] People of color, specifically Black women, were upset as they felt the marketing didn’t account for their experiences.”

Industry Standards and Marketing Practices:

• Kirbie: “[36:06] The term 'no white cast' has become so pervasive that it’s often used misleadingly, similar to how 'gluten-free' was overused.”
• They discuss the broader issue of misleading marketing in the mineral sunscreen industry and the need for greater transparency.

Personal Experiences and Takeaways:

• Both hosts express their continued support for the product despite its flaws, emphasizing the importance of the apology and commitment to improvement:
  • Kirbie: “[35:28] I have no doubts in Amy. She will fix this.”
  • They acknowledge the beauty of the formula and the brand’s genuine intention to serve all customers.

---

Conclusion and Audience Engagement [35:31 - 37:56]

Kirbie and Sara wrap up the episode by reflecting on the significance of the Rhode-ELF acquisition and the Tower 28 controversy. They encourage listeners to share their thoughts on social media and engage with the topics discussed. The hosts express optimism for the future of both brands and the beauty industry as a whole, celebrating the transparency and resilience demonstrated by Rhode and Tower 28.

Call to Action:

• Kirbie: Invites listeners to discuss their opinions on Rhode and ELF's collaboration and share their experiences with Tower 28’s sunscreen.
• Emphasis on community feedback and ongoing conversations about industry standards and brand responsibility.

---

Notable Quotes

• Kirbie on ELF Acquisition Excitement [02:38]: “I was so excited to tell you this information, I was like, Rhode is selling to ELF? This is crazy.”
• Sara on Price Increases [03:29]: “But when a lot of people pay a dollar, that is beneficial for the company.”
• Kirbie on Hailey Bieber’s Role [10:16]: “Hailey is stepping away from Rhode. She is not only founder, but she's chief creative officer and head of innovation.”
• Kirbie on Community Reactions [30:40]: “It just feels like you're playing in their face when you're like, it's universal. And it's like, so then do I not matter? Did you not see me?”
• Kirbie on Marketing Practices [36:06]: “The term 'no white cast' has become so pervasive that it’s often used misleadingly, similar to how 'gluten-free' was overused.”

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of Gloss Angeles offers an in-depth analysis of ELF’s acquisition of Rhode, debunking prevalent misconceptions and highlighting the strategic significance of the deal. Additionally, the hosts provide a critical examination of Tower 28’s recent sunscreen controversy, emphasizing the importance of honest marketing and inclusivity. Through engaging discussions and expert insights, Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan deliver a comprehensive and enlightening episode for beauty enthusiasts and industry professionals alike.

Transcript

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[Kirby]

G L A M. Los Angeles.

[Sarah]

Hi, Kirby.

[Kirby]

Hi, Sarah. Welcome to Los angeles. Happy June. June. June 3rd.

[Sarah]

How the hell did we get here? June 3rd. That's my father's birthday. Happy birthday, Greg Tan.

[Kirby]

Happy birthday, Greg. He's a Gemini.

[Sarah]

Very much so.

[Kirby]

Very much so. We love his style.

[Sarah]

Love him. Oh, my God. I used. Can I tell you this? I used FaceApp on him recently just to, like, show what it could do. And he was like, I don't really see a difference.

[Kirby]

Oh, okay. Way to go, Greg. Glad that's how you.

[Sarah]

Yes. I love that for you. I love that. My dad sends us outfit of the day photos. That's how we start our mornings. Outfit of the day sends us a picture of his outfit.

[Kirby]

He is such a stunt on the golf course. Oh, I love that. Love, love his life.

[Sarah]

Gosh, we have so much to talk about.

[Kirby]

We have a lot to talk about. Two big things in particular that have happened in the last week. Let's just get started with road. You've heard every headline.

[Sarah]

Wait, hold.

[Kirby]

Oh, hold for applause.

[Sarah]

Hold for applause. Wow.

[Kirby]

Wow. You've heard every headline. You've seen every take. Nothing else existed that day.

[Sarah]

Literally. It was like everyone stopped what they're doing.

[Kirby]

My entire feat was just one after the other.

[Sarah]

Kirby was first, and then it was.

[Kirby]

Like, oh, was it? Was I?

[Sarah]

Because, you know, we're. We're journalists. We get like the embargo news like an hour to before. But I feel like it was like Alexis from Lipsticks Lesbians was literally getting her hair done.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

She was like, yes, stop.

[Kirby]

She had foils in her hair and she gets on there. No.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

It really shook me when we got the email. First of all, Sarah was filming.

[Sarah]

Yeah. I was, like, on set, so I didn't have my phone. I missed the email. And then I went to get my hair done. And then I got this call from crib and she was like, did you see this email? I was like, what happened? Like, did someone die?

[Kirby]

I was like, I can't. I was so excited to tell you this information, I was like, rhode is selling to elf? This is crazy.

[Sarah]

I was like. I had goosebumps.

[Kirby]

No, it was bonkers.

[Sarah]

Literally. I couldn't believe it and. No, neither could anyone.

[Kirby]

I mean, this is how I felt. Honestly, when Susan Yara sold Naturium to elf, I was shook in like the best way possible. So we figured you have probably seen somebody's posts about this with some take about what happened and all the headlines. But we wanted to go through some misconceptions that we've seen online and kind of clear the air and not even misconceptions, but just kind of like questions that we're seeing a lot of. Yeah, so the first one that we've seen is that ELF increased their prices because of the road acquisition.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

So before this news was announced, both Naturium and ELF said that they were increasing their prices $1. And $1 is not a lot.

[Sarah]

No.

[Kirby]

But when a lot of people pay a dollar, that is beneficial for the company. Of course, a lot of people took that information and then they heard this information about the Rhode acquisition, which we'll get into the dollars soon. And they have assumed that because of that huge acquisition, that's actually why the prices have gone up. And I don't know if these people have just been under a rock. They don't understand that tariffs exist. But the brand was also very clear when they posted ELF being the brand, that it was a tariff strategy. Yeah, we reached out to elf. This is the official statement they gave us. They said, pricing is a part of our overall tariff mitigation plan that has three key vectors, pricing, supply chain optimization and business diversification. Those help fuel our focus for long term strategy, which is so important in a climate with uncertain external factors. Every. I have seen multiple brands outside of ELF that have not been doing huge acquisitions, raising their prices.

[Sarah]

Yeah, this is, this is, this is directly affected by the tariffs. This is not. They're trying to make up the money for this giant purchase or acquisition. I was talking to a founder, I'm going to say I'm not going to name who it was because. So it can be off the record.

[Kirby]

Kind of, kind of on background.

[Sarah]

On background. There you go. That's the right term. And she was like, I didn't realize how much money ELF had. And I think that's sort of like the reason why people are like, holy shit, this is huge. I didn't realize ELF had this much money because they had approached her brand years ago to acquire it for a much lower price. It was, she said, the lowest offer. And so in her mind, this was not even, like, even a possibility.

[Kirby]

Wow.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

That is really interesting. I think the bigger story here, I mean, it's a huge story. Rhode got acquired in three years. That's bonkers. But I think the bigger story is that ELF is now becoming a conglomerate.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Kirby]

I. They are going in my head. In 10 years, elf will be an ELC, they will be a L' Oreal, they'll be a Coty. And when you and I remember, there were rumors from Rachel Strubat's at Puck a couple of months ago about how Rhode was exploring an acquisition and the billion dollar term was thrown out there.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

And everyone was like, yeah, right. This brand is not worth a billion dollars, blah, blah, blah. When that happened, I think we talked about this on the podcast, or maybe not, because we talk a million times a day, but we were like, where would road even go?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

We felt that l' Oreal was not the right pick.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

We also felt that ELC wasn't the right pick. We know that a lot of people don't want to be at Cody right now.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Kirby]

So, you know, and there, of course, there's so many other conglomerates, but we were like, what's the right fit for a road that feels so different in terms of their brand when it comes to, like, marketing.

[Sarah]

Yep, exactly.

[Kirby]

And the products that they put out, I mean, I think that phone case really took them to the next level in a way that separates them from everything else out there. I think of Rhode is a lifestyle brand versus just strictly beauty at this point.

[Sarah]

Which then makes sense to why ELF wanted to acquire them. Because as we've talked about a million times, ELF sees themselves as an entertainment company, Right?

[Kirby]

Yep.

[Sarah]

Like digitally native marketing disruptors. So it makes sense, but I don't. It never crossed my mind.

[Kirby]

Never crossed my mind. But when we got the email, and it was really cool to get the email from both the ROAD and the ELF teams because we work with them a lot, obviously, I was like, this is a perfect match. This makes so much sense. So anyways, okay, so break it down.

[Sarah]

Break it down, Kirby.

[Kirby]

So we've been seeing a lot of headlines that Hailey is a billionaire. I don't know Hailey Bieber's personal finances.

[Sarah]

Maybe she is.

[Kirby]

Maybe she is. Maybe she is now based off a millionaire getting. Yes. But with this particular acquisition, they received $800,000 cash, $200 million in ELF stock. And then over the next three years, they can acquire an additional 200 million based on the performance of the brand. Yes. And when I have talked to other brand founders or people that have had their brand acquired or people that work at these companies that acquire brands, thing that they say is, you know, they're looking at these statistics of these brands because they are assuming when they acquire those brands that they're going to, I think, reach tenfold or five fold what that brand is currently doing. And if you saw any of the videos, for instance, mine, I talk about how in the past year, Road is a D2C company. They don't have a retailer yet. They'll be in Sephora later this year. But in the past year, they've doubled their consumer base and they have made $212 million.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

With nine SKUs, that's unheard of for any brand, totally celebrity or not.

[Sarah]

Without, like, any real paid marketing. Like, I feel like everything is organic.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Everything is totally organic. I don't know that they paid anyone any money to post about their product at all. People are just, like, chomping at the bit.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

To talk about it.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

212. That's insane.

[Kirby]

That's insane. And last year we talked about this too, but they. And I believe Rachel reported this, they made $90 million in two months last year when that was the expectation for the year itself. So what product was that? I think it was around the holidays.

[Sarah]

Okay, okay.

[Kirby]

Like, remember when people were, like, waiting to get that PR box online?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And we even had our friends messaging us goes going, oh, my God, they had 500 of these PR boxes and they're all gone. They were gone in, like, a second. And I'm like, do you not understand how popular this brand is? I think also the popup really kind of opened people's eyes totally. Obviously. They've probably been talking to ELF about this for a while.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And I actually.

[Kirby]

Or a bunch of other people.

[Sarah]

Yes, yes.

[Kirby]

But they did everything so strategically with.

[Sarah]

That popup, setting themselves up for success. The team is brilliant.

[Kirby]

Yes. I have to agree. We've said this. So if you think that we're just being fan girls, like, we've said it for a very long time. This is nothing new.

[Sarah]

Check the receipts. Yes, check the receipts.

[Kirby]

Technically, they didn't get a billion dollars for this.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

There have been brands in the past, which we'll touch on in a second, that have gotten a billion dollars or more cash. This is a cash and stock deal. So I know people are being very specific about that term. And of course, a billion sounds good. Getting $200 million in ELF stock in my humble Opinion is worth a lot more. Humbly, even $800,000 cash. So to me, I'm like, everybody reports it this way. Every business journalist reports it like this. So that's. I understood why they. They went that route.

[Sarah]

Right. And then this $200 million after the next three years, that's something that a lot of brands do when they acquire other brands to incentivize them to continue to do well. Especially when, like, Haley is still involved.

[Kirby]

In the company 100%, and it's beneficial for them to keep Hailey on. It's why Susan is still a part of Naturium.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

It's why Jared Blandino was still a part of Too Faced for so many years after they sold to Estee Lauder. I could give you a million examples of that.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

So speaking of Hailey, I've seen some. These people clearly didn't read anything, but Hailey is stepping away from Rhode. That is not happening. She is not only founder, but she's chief creative officer and head of innovation at Rode and Elf signed her to be the strategic advisor to the entire company.

[Sarah]

So smart.

[Kirby]

Which I think is brilliant. And I know that it's really easy to hate on someone that's thriving. And I get on threads and I see people saying things like, you know, it's not just her, it's all these other people doing this. Like, she just put. Put her name on it. I'm like, babes, ask any of those people that are working with her. She is the driving force behind this brand.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Our episode with Ron hasn't aired yet, right?

[Kirby]

Not yet, but that was filmed before.

[Sarah]

This acquisition was announced, and he even said so himself.

[Kirby]

And he helped formulate.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Like, he was not taking any credit whatsoever. He was giving it all to Hailey. And I think that Kirby and I, you know, obviously, again, we speak so positively about her, but it's because we see so many founders, specifically celebrity founders, who sort of just kind of like, phone it in. And yes, they built a really smart team around them, which is key to your success. But she truly lives and breathes this brand.

[Kirby]

Oh, yeah. I think we can just go on the record and say, when we first got pitched her to come on the podcast, we were like, is this something anyone's gonna care about?

[Sarah]

Is she gonna be able to talk to any of the formulations, like, the product?

[Kirby]

Does she know anything about beauty?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Cause she's so beautiful. Like, does it even matter? And her team was like, no, I think she's gonna change your perspective on her. And then we met with her and it turned into an hour long conversation which you can go listen to right now, where it felt like we were truly talking to another beauty editor aficionado, someone that actually cares about beauty, giving us recommendations that we would be giving people that ask us for recommendations.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Kirby]

She's very in the know. She's very involved in what is happening in the beauty world. I think it even goes back to. I think technically her brand is clean. Like, I think it's made without certain ingredients.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

I don't think you've ever seen. Have you ever seen marketing of clean? Have you ever seen marketing. Maybe there has been a clean here or there, but it was not pushed at the launch. And in any of the launches since then, you're not hearing it's made without this and it's good for you and it's safe or whatever. And I think that's because she follows people like Ron, like Dr. Bonhusali, like Charlotte Palermino, like people really in the thick of it when it comes to beauty. That helped her say, okay, listen, maybe we do have to make it without these ingredients for certain people, but it's.

[Sarah]

Not gonna be a big marketing. Yeah. Tactic.

[Kirby]

And that's what, that's one thing I really have respected about the brand overall.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And I also feel like those people, again, they're just not reading but who are saying like, oh, she just slapped her name on it. Do you think Elf would acquire her brand for $1 billion if she wasn't.

[Kirby]

And make her a strategic advisor?

[Sarah]

There are. We know this.

[Kirby]

You do not, you do not have to do that.

[Sarah]

We know there are hundreds of other celebrity founders who have successful brands that they could have partnered with, but they saw like her vision, they saw her work ethic. So, yeah, like, they, they did not need to offer her this role.

[Kirby]

No. They could have just given her a bunch of money and said, yeah, hey, like, we need you to stay on to like promote.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

But I think that her taking a bigger. I think this is also kind of what Hailey has been trying to do is like set herself as a businesswoman versus just being the face of something. She's been the face. She's a model. Right. Like, she's, for better or worse, Justin Bieber's wife to a lot of people. So with this, she's like, no, I'm a businesswoman. And I also don't want to just have my brand be a cornerstone of my success. I want to show that I can make other brands successful underneath this E L F umbrella. So I'm really excited to see what both brands do for each other.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Is this the largest acquisition in history? It is not. I think that has been made pretty clear, but it is the fastest in just three years.

[Sarah]

That's. That's. That's unheard of.

[Kirby]

Yeah, it is. So in 2016, IT Cosmetics sold to L' Oreal for 1.2 billion cash. In 2016, too, Faced was acquired by Estee Lauder Companies for 1.44 or $5 billion cash. And what is hilarious is when that happened, they threw the most insane party I have ever experienced in my life.

[Sarah]

We got to benefit from that large acquisition.

[Kirby]

The peach party was on an. They had Mindy Weiss, okay, celebrity wedding planner Mindy Weiss do this party. It was on a studio lot in West Hollywood. There was peach. A giant peach, like James and the motherfucking peaches ceiling. Yes. They had peach going in through the vents like you were at Disneyland or Las Vegas to, like, get more oxygen. So it smelled like peaches.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

It was the most bonkers party. And I was like. And they flew like everyone in all.

[Sarah]

The editors in it was. Yeah. Wow. That was like. That was the good old days.

[Kirby]

As Elise said, that's when they weren't looking at cost of goods. Okay. Cost of goods. It was a different time. It was a different time.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

So in 2023, ASAP was acquired by L' Oreal for 2.5 billion. I think that's the.

[Sarah]

That's gotta be.

[Kirby]

That's the highest. I mean, I think so.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Kirby]

And I mean, it makes sense.

[Sarah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kirby]

And then in 2024, Deciem was fully acquired by Estee Lauder for 1.7 billion. That was an interesting one because they had already invested in the company partially. And then, like, by 2024, they had fully acquired it.

[Sarah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kirby]

With it for a total of 1.7 billion. So not necessarily the biggest, but, like.

[Sarah]

These brands were in existence for much longer than. Baby. Three years.

[Kirby]

Yes, yes.

[Sarah]

Not barely a toddler.

[Kirby]

I know. Damn. Another question. Will Rhode decrease their prices? No. Point blank, period. That's not happening.

[Sarah]

No.

[Kirby]

They are going into Sephora.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Kirby]

They're in this masstige price point. That's where they'll stay.

[Sarah]

And that's why that was another attractive point of ELF acquiring them. Right. Like entering this different market of like.

[Kirby]

ELF is now in Sephora.

[Sarah]

Yeah, they're in Sephora. It's accessible luxury. It's a different customer base. That's part of the reason why.

[Kirby]

Right, right.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Right. Also, I've seen you know, will Rhodes share formulas with elf, Naturium, et cetera. And no. I imagine that they will probably use each other to each other's advantage.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Kirby]

But I was watching a video from Alexis of the lipstick lesbians and she said that she believes that ELF doesn't own their own manufacturing facilities. Even so, like, you know, l' Oreal and elc, the benefit is like they bring everything in house. Yeah, she said that in her. To her best knowledge. Yeah, to her best knowledge that they don't have their own manufacturing facility. So I don't know if that will change. Which leads us to another formulation. Question about the Peptide Lip Tints slash treatments. I would love to ask Hayley. This has to be their number one best selling skew, right?

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Kirby]

I would be shocked if it wasn't. But they do have to fix the graininess. We've talked about this since it began. Because I still have that problem and I love those products, but I don't use them as much. I actually use other road products more because of the graininess from the Peptide Lip Treatment tint. Whatever.

[Sarah]

My issue is, what is that when I open it, sometimes it comes out too quickly. So then it's super messy.

[Kirby]

So they need a stopper. Yeah, they need a better stopper.

[Sarah]

And I don't know if it's because I use the phone case, so it like squeezes it.

[Kirby]

Oh.

[Sarah]

But anyways, I use this a lot. But see, it just like keeps coming.

[Kirby]

Yeah, it just keeps coming. Yeah. I wonder. I have said this a couple of times. Maybe I'm just saying it in hopes it'll happen. But you don't go into Sephora and have a product like Sephora is so strict and critical of like, what people are launching. So I would imagine that they're reformulating or figuring it out. Maybe there'll be like a newer looking packaging to be offered when they go into Sephora because then also that would encourage current fans to like go in store and like, get this like, quote unquote new version or whatever.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

But yeah, my. My biggest takeaway is very thrilled for the road team. Everybody that works on that brand is knows what's up.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And also ELF is going to be. I think Elf will be just as big as a l' Oreal or a ELC one day.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Like we're seeing this, like actually come to life before our eyes.

[Sarah]

Really. I wonder too if like now other brands who were hoping to be acquired or, you know, have hopes to be acquired are now eyeing elf, you know, like, it was never Even a possibility for them in their minds. But now I. I really think all in all, this is really great for the beauty industry.

[Kirby]

Oh. I asked several founders about this. What are your thoughts on this? People that work at celebrity owned brands were like, I feel like this is just a great demonstration that, like, celebrity beauty isn't going anywhere. I had other founders say that they felt like this was really good timing, especially since everybody's so concerned about, like, where the beauty industry is going.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Kirby]

Everybody that I asked and I said, I'll keep you 100% anonymous if you prefer, like, give me your honest take. All of them were positive.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Kirby]

Nobody was like, oh, God, like, blah, blah. Like, the only negativity I've seen are people outside of the beauty industry who.

[Sarah]

Don'T quite understand it.

[Kirby]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sarah]

I think that's what I have been seeing too. I have not seen anyone speak about this negatively at all, whether or not they're a Rhode or Haley fan. Like, everyone I think is super impressed and I think just understands that, like, this is just a really exciting new. This is really exciting news for the industry as a whole. But yeah, just kudos, kudos to the whole team. It's just been really cool for us to be able to have, like, seen it from the start.

[Kirby]

Yeah, guys, we've never. We've never seen that before.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Kirby]

Like, all of the brands when we first got started were already so established.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

And then when they ended up selling, it was great. It was, like, very exciting. But we didn't see it from the ground level. You know, we weren't there when urban decay started in the 90s. So it, I don't know, like, also helpful for us too, in our jobs to be like, oh, interesting. Okay. This is how certain business dynamics totally work and how certain, you know, supply chains operate and things like that.

[Sarah]

Right. I feel like it's also validating because we also, we like big fans of ELF and everything they do. Big fans of road.

[Kirby]

And we're like, well, listen, we have good taste. What can we say? We can't help it. Okay. We have great taste. Okay, let's go on to a more serious issue.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

And listen, we're not gonna sugarcoat it here. And we're also not gonna play like, we don't know this brand founder and don't adore her.

[Sarah]

And also, we both love the product. I have been using this product nonstop, and for me personally, I really love it.

[Kirby]

What we're talking about is Tower 28's sunscreen drama. Tower 28 launched the SOS Face Guard broad spectrum SPF 30, which you can get at Sephora Revolve and tower2.8beauty.com and this is the product description. Stay protected in the hot Summer sun with Tower 28 new SPF. It features a whipped, creamy texture that feels like a lightweight moisturizer, is packed with skin soothing Ceramides, Allantoin and Alpha Biza Bolo to keep skin calm and breakout free. And it sits perfectly under makeup. Plus, it's clinically tested and dermatologically approved and holds three major seals. The National Eczema Association Seal of Acceptance, the National Psoriasis Foundation Seal of Recognition and the National Rosacea Society Seal of Acceptance.

[Sarah]

I remember when we were talking to Amy about this, she was like, we spent so much time and so much money on testing this product. Third party testing all of it to get these seals because they wanted to do it. Right.

[Kirby]

I think though, that's part of why this drama has started.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Kirby]

Okay. This is a mineral sunscreen. And because Tower 28 is a sensitive skin brand, I don't think there was an option for them to not do mineral.

[Sarah]

No, they had to.

[Kirby]

They had to.

[Sarah]

And Amy.

[Kirby]

But every brand does a mineral sunscreen at this point.

[Sarah]

Right. And Tower 28 calls themselves clean.

[Kirby]

Yes.

[Sarah]

So that's. That's. Yes, that's 100. They had to.

[Kirby]

Right. A clean. Whatever. They can't use certain chemicals. Whatever.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Kirby]

Y' all know our thoughts on that. One of the things that they were promoting was that it uses a non nano zinc oxide. Amy herself said it blends like a dream, moisturizes incredibly well, soothes the skin and there's no irritation, no white cast, just fresh, healthy looking skin. When Amy told us that she was launching a sunscreen, I was excited. I knew it was going to be mineral. And she said, there's no white cast. And in my head I said, sure, Jan. Because there is really not a product that is 100% cast free for everyone. It might be cast free for me. Mineral, specifically chemical.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Of course.

[Kirby]

I bathe in it.

[Sarah]

It's same. Completely covering me from head to toe.

[Kirby]

Right. It's completely clear.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Kirby]

It's not going to show up. But for minerals specifically, it is impossible. Zinc oxide is a white powder.

[Sarah]

It's gonna be white.

[Kirby]

Yeah. It's gonna definitely like block the sun. Okay. So that's why you see a lot of products that have a tint to them to help offset that.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Like Hugh Guard from Live Tinted or even Kosas Dreambeam.

[Sarah]

I believe the new Merit sunscreen is Also tinted.

[Kirby]

So when I get a pitch for mineral sunscreen, I always completely disregard any type of language that says no white cast. Because I always think of Julian Sass. I always think of Dr. Sass, whose entire platform is based off of testing these sunscreens that make these claims. And I'm like, at this point, if you are making a sunscreen and not going to him and like, using him as part of your focus group.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Kirby]

Then you're missing. You're really missing out. Because I felt Julian's review was very constructive and you could tell that he was disappointed. Julian told me that he reached out to the Tower 28 team prior to posting this particular review.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Kirby]

So they weren't completely blindsided.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And he was very kind of him.

[Kirby]

And so he went ahead and did the review. He used half a teaspoon of sunscreen for his ears, his face, and his neck, which he always does. Always does. He measures it out. The reason why he does that is because when you are testing sun protection factor, that's the amount to see how long it takes for your skin to actually start to turn red. And so if you want the desired protection, you have to use that amount. Whether or not people actually do that is going to be discussed later. But he puts it on and it left a cast. And he goes through. He was like, the good things are they got all of these seals for rosacea, psoriasis, and eczema.

[Sarah]

And he mentions, like, he knows. Like, that took a lot of time and money.

[Kirby]

Yep.

[Sarah]

However.

[Kirby]

However it left a cast on his face. I saw his post and I was just like. I remember being like, oh, man, that sucks. But I kind of knew that was gonna happen. But I'm not. I'm not surprised. Then Amy had to post an apology, or she did post an apology on Tower 28's page. And she, a part of this apology said, despite our best efforts in testing, the truth is we missed the mark by essentially using the marketing that it had no white cast and quote, unquote, a universal tint. And she's right. My whole thing with this entire drama is not necessarily that I think this is a Tower 28 issue. I think this is a problem when it comes to mineral sunscreens in general. I think the consumer would rather you say this is a mineral sunscreen. Chances are, if you are Fitzpatrick 6, you're probably gonna see a white cast. We try to minimize it or even.

[Sarah]

Just not calling, not using those marketing words at all, just not even saying it, not even including it totally.

[Kirby]

But then I asked in my Instagram story, industry friends, is this something that retailers or suppliers or manufacturers, like, are they telling you that this is needs to be on the packaging or like a promotion point? Is there a disconnect between marketing and product development? Like, what's going on here? And so many people responded. I was shocked. I took screenshots. A lot of them said they're getting a lot of this from suppliers. Retailers even want this on packaging. In some cases, the no white cast meaning or like a universal tint that also it's one of those things where it's like you get a mineral. And like the one takeaway for everybody is like, we can separate ourselves if it's truly invisible. Yeah, I have it, I like it. I actually love using it on my body because it has that tint to it. So I feel like it kind of like blurs in a way. And I, this morning was like, just for shits and giggles, let me put on half a teaspoon. Exactly. To see which.

[Sarah]

Because we don't usually wear that much sunscreen.

[Kirby]

I do not. I. For chemical. I do. For chemical, literally, I just do a job and put it all over my.

[Sarah]

Face and then I end up putting it on my chest. But like, for my face, maybe quarter size.

[Kirby]

Okay, but here's the thing though, and this is actually something I wanted to get into because Amy said that they did third party testing that they also sent to brand friendlies and told everyone to use a quarter size amount. A quarter size is technically more than what you need because a quarter size. Interesting because half a teaspoon is technically a nickel dollop on your hand. A quarter size is actually more.

[Sarah]

But maybe it's the.

[Kirby]

Well, okay, so that's what I'm saying. But if you like get on. If you get on Google and you look up like how much sunscreen your sister wearing. Nickel size, it says half a teaspoon or equivalent to a nickel size.

[Sarah]

Interesting.

[Kirby]

So then when Amy was posting in her Instagram stories today as well, and I actually want to read what she said because I think this is the point that needs to be made. She just said that we failed the customer and I realized we misled people, despite having done the third party testing to verify no white cast and even sending it to friendlies. And then also she said she asked them to use a quarter size amount, not a full teaspoon. Well, you don't need a full teaspoon and you don't need a quarter size amount.

[Sarah]

Yeah. So you're like, how are they testing this.

[Kirby]

Yeah. I'm.

[Sarah]

What are they doing?

[Kirby]

I'm just confused because I'm like, it seems like she even has the measurements off with that.

[Sarah]

Yeah. But she does say that she didn't look at the protocol and she looked at the results.

[Kirby]

Right. Okay. So she said, the truth is, I got the answer I wanted instead of the truth, because I was looking for the answer I wanted to hear. I love this formula, and I still do. It is really, really good. But I've watched the content and read the feedb and the people have spoken. I hear you. My biggest takeaway is actually that I need to do a better job at creating a culture of transparency and feedback internally. And I totally agree with this because I was not gonna tell Amy, babe, this is not gonna be cast free. Like it might. I put half a teaspoon. I was saying earlier, I put half a teaspoon on my face today. Completely transparent, completely rubbed in. I'm a white woman.

[Sarah]

Yep. So, I mean, we're like pretty much the same shade, but. Yeah, I mean, that's why I. I like it a lot.

[Kirby]

And I use it even before I was using it on my face, I was using it on my hands and my arms when I was walking. Quinn, I. I really do think it is an elegant, beautiful formula. But the minute I hear mineral and see a zinc oxide in there, I'm like, there's no way. Especially in the United States of America.

[Sarah]

Right. And I mean, her fans, fans of the brand, were so excited about this. It had a 10,000 person wait list. Right. Like, people want an elegant mineral sunscreen that feels like skincare, that works for every skin type, that's not gonna sting your eyes, that's gonna blend beautifully. But that doesn't leave a white cast. But it's like, what mineral sunscreen are you gonna find that does all those things?

[Kirby]

So that's my whole point, I think now. Cause I also was reading the comments on Tower 28's page, and people were upset. And I think they have every right to be, especially when you are in a marginalized community, like the black community being sold that something is something. It just feels like you're playing in their face when you're like, it's universal. And it's like, so then do I not matter? Did you not see me? And Julian said the same thing. He said he wasn't mad, he was.

[Sarah]

Disappointed because he just feels like, this happened again.

[Kirby]

It happened again. He's not being. Do people not care about him? Is he not seen and not even just him but the community as a whole.

[Sarah]

And maybe it also feels, like, a little bit more disappointing because Amy is a woman of color and she's Asian, and, like, she herself understands, like, the issues at hand, which is why she even, you know, started her own brand?

[Kirby]

That was my whole thing. I was, like, it was curious to me why people were so upset with this brand, because in the past several months, we've had so many mineral sunscreen launches that make the same claim that, look, you look fucking crazy to be completely transparent. Transparent, no pun intended.

[Sarah]

Which is why it's a little bit frustrating. I completely. Like, everyone's criticisms are totally valid. I 100% understand. But, like, it's like, why are we picking on Amy?

[Kirby]

So I think this is. But this is a good discussion because I was asking people, like, is it because this brand is known to be inclusive? Is it because people know and love Amy?

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Kirby]

And that's what disappointment. And they expected more. Or is it because people are, like, finally fed up and they're like, we have hit a fever pitch in this marketing. That doesn't make any sense. That's never gonna happen. Yeah. And I even noticed. I remember when Dreambeam launched from Kosas, I thought that they really marketed it as no white cast. And it has, like, a little bit of that, you know, pink tint to it. And then they launched the golden hue.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

When I looked on the product page today, there is nothing.

[Sarah]

Everyone was like, but I wonder if.

[Kirby]

They were like, listen, we have to listen to our consumer. There's no way this is gonna be white cast free. It only says that it's like, it comes in this tint to neutralize any cast, not that it gets rid of it or that it doesn't exist. And then one of my girlfriends sent me a photo, and she's like, I just put on half a teaspoon of Kosas Dream Beam, and this is what it looks like on my face. It's not completely cast free, but it's a pretty damn good match. And I was like, you know what? I would rather them be? Like, if you are a black person, you are gonna see some type of cast, but it's gonna be better than others. Or you can decide for yourself. Like, okay, do I want to invest in a product that literally is known for being a white powder and risk it? Or maybe you don't even care because you're like, I wear it under makeup anyways.

[Sarah]

Right, Right.

[Kirby]

And then I use, you know, a chemical sunscreen when I go to the beach for my body or Whatever it is.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

You know what I mean? But I think that we have to get past this point in marketing where we're not listening to the people that are clearly not being served in this situation. In my humble opinion. And I know that it's hard to run a brand, but I also think that, like, when I was trying to get to the basis of why people were so upset, I do think it's threefold. I think that people know Tower 28 for being so inclusive and sensitive, if you will, to every person, and they went through the work to get all of those seals.

[Sarah]

So much work, so much money, and it's a beautiful formula. But then this. So I'm like, first. First of all, dreambeam. No mention in press releases, anything about no white cast.

[Kirby]

White cast, Good for them.

[Sarah]

I just typed in mineral sunscreen white cast in my inbox, and it's like, I have hundreds of emails, but there's like, this one specific sunscreen which I have not tried by silkscreen. It's tinted, but I like their. The way they describe it, they're saying there's a sheer base to offset white set. Like, there are different ways to neutralize. Neutralize. And also to describe the product as being pretty good at not leaving a white cast, but not invisible. You know what I mean? Without having to say no white cast, I would, rather.

[Kirby]

If I were running my own brand, I would rather make a mineral sunscreen and put it out there. And if people want to say there's no white cast on their skin tone, great. Because then I went to the Tower 28 website, and I was looking at some of the reviews there, and there were people of color, specifically black women, that were like, I used half a teaspoon. It looks great on me, whatever. But also, they are not as deep as Julian.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Kirby]

Okay.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Kirby]

So I think that everybody is allowed to have their personal experience with it. But I think the main takeaway for me personally is a. I'm glad that Amy stepped up to the plate.

[Sarah]

Made the apology very quickly, too.

[Kirby]

Very, very quickly. I have truly no doubts in her. Like, she is a woman of her word. She will get shit done and maybe even make the second version even better.

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Kirby]

But one thing I did want to bring up, kind of related to this is Margo Ambuba, who is the beauty editor at Vogue. She messaged me and was like, you know what's crazy is that now this term, like, no white cast is so pervasive that it's in pitches that I get, or if I'm looking At products online for chemical sunscreens that have no zinc oxide in them.

[Sarah]

That's like when you're saying like, oh, this is gluten free. Remember, like, everything was.

[Kirby]

You're like, everything was like, there was never gonna. Gluten wasn't even sniffing in this particularly totally.

[Sarah]

But everything was like gluten free for a while. And you're like, was there gluten in that to begin with? No.

[Kirby]

No. They just threw it out there. Yes, yes. So it's like, interesting to see now that this term has become so important to, I guess, consumers because they've been fed it by so many brands that even products that would never have a cast in the first place are saying no white cast.

[Sarah]

Yeah, yeah. It's pretty wild. It's pretty wild. Ugh, what a bummer.

[Kirby]

It's a bummer.

[Sarah]

They will be fine. Tower 28 will be fine. They're gonna rise above this. They're gonna fix this.

[Kirby]

I've seen a lot of people, you have to. I mean, and I like that they're making a second one.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Kirby]

Because this really is a beautiful product for people that can use it. But everybody should be able to benefit from it. And so I'm glad that they're making a second one and I'm eager to see what that second one looks like. But we wanna know what are your thoughts? What do you feel about the road and Elf Collaboration? Collaboration, literally. There are children on the Internet. On Al Gore's Internet right now going, Rhode is collaborating with elf. There's a.

[Sarah]

And I'm like, for a billion dollars. A billion dollars.

[Kirby]

I'm like, why? Why do they think that Hailey would reveal that she is doing a paid partnership for a billion dollars? This is crazy.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God.

[Kirby]

All kids. This is why they shouldn't have the Internet, to be completely honest. Anyways, let us know about that. And then also let us know, have you tried the new Tower 28 sunscreen? What are your thoughts on this whole situation? What do you think they could have done better or changed to make this less of a current problem?

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