Kirby (2:08)

Yes. And your face connects you to your mom and her parents and so on and so forth. Right?

Sarah (2:15)

Yes.

Kirby (2:15)

This is your ancestry right here.

Sarah (2:17)

And so many people say that they are reminded of my grandmother when they look at me or reminded of my mother when they look at me.

Kirby (2:24)

Right, Right.

Sarah (2:25)

For you. You now have two children.

Kirby (2:26)

Yes.

Sarah (2:27)

Who look just like you.

Kirby (2:29)

Sorry, Matt.

Sarah (2:29)

They're so freaky.

Kirby (2:30)

My jeans are very strong.

Sarah (2:32)

The Asian jeans, they really pulled through here. I was wondering if one of them was going to be white.

Kirby (2:37)

Yes.

Sarah (2:38)

Blonde hair.

Kirby (2:38)

I know the. The recessive jeans really were like, we are recessive. But no, Zoe, she definitely, like, looks a little bit more like Matt, but she also looks very much like me. And then Kate is just like, copy and paste. Yes, my child, yes. But, yeah, this is a topic that, like Kirby said, we talk about a lot. It's something that I think about a lot. One for the reason Kirby said, I think we're just seeing so many more women, like, having more access to these treatments. You could get a lift on your lunch break. It is just so easy. You could turn the corner and there is somewhere to get your Botox done, your lips filled. And, you know, maybe it is also because we live in la, but I think this is something that a lot more women our age are just doing because it's also a lot more acceptable now. But also at the same time, I am at this place in my life where I'm like, I'm ready for, like, some tweakments. I have given so much of myself to my children. Sometimes don't recognize myself. So, like, I want to feel like myself again. So I should feel empowered to do that. But then there is this cloud hanging over me. How do I explain that to my children? The headline was, I want a new face, but my kids still have my old one. Which I feel like really struck a chord with a lot of people. And I was like, I want to talk to the experts and I want to talk to our friends who have been talking about this for a long time. So interviewed Susan Yara, Amy Chang, Vanessa Lee, ami Desai, and Dr. Elise Min. And I really just wanted to get an idea of how everyone is talking about these treatments that they're getting with their children. Susan is, like, on one end, she's always been very vocal about what she's getting. Right. Even today, I was on our Instagram and someone made a comment, as they always do, and they're like, she looks like. What is her eyes like? They look so different. It's swollen because I got a fat transfer on her forehead and her eye area. Yeah, it looks better now. Like, I'm going to do a video or whatever. Like, Susan is very upfront and transparent, and it's the same thing with her kids. She said, you know, she couldn't hide that she got a tummy tuck from them because she's in so much pain. She had to explain to them she has a young son and daughter that when mommy had a baby, her stomach changed a lot and she wanted to fix it. But that does not mean she regrets having Any, you know, having her kids, she doesn't regret having them, so explaining it to them. But there are other treatments that she gets that, you know, it's not appropriate to talk about with them yet because they're still so young. But, you know, on social media, she's very open and empowered to talk about it. Then we have Amy Chang, who always talks about aesthetics as well. But for her, she got a bluff before she had her daughters, and then she was gonna get a nasal tip refinement, and then she had her daughter, and she was like, wait, she has my nose? I think she's the most beautiful thing ever. Just like your mom with you. I do not want to change that. So she made a promise to herself, and she said, I will not alter any of my features because I want to share that with my daughters. I'm going to focus more on preservation and rejuvenation, which felt like a very common theme when I was talking to Vanessa Lee about it.

Sarah (5:39)

Who.

Kirby (5:39)

I mean, she's an aesthetics provider, and she herself. I don't know if you know this, but she's gotten now two mommy makeovers.

Sarah (5:45)

Yes.

Kirby (5:45)

Yes. She has three kids. She got a mommy makeover before her third, and then had a surprise pregnancy, had her kid, and then decided to get another one. She's also very open about what she's gotten. Threads, all these things. But for her, she says that most moms now that she talks to you are more focused on, like, looking like themselves again.

Sarah (6:03)

So less tired.

Kirby (6:04)

Less tired. We just want to look less tired, which I think is common across the board. Kids are not. Right. We want to just look like we've rested a little bit.

Sarah (6:13)

I guess my question is, you know, you're talking to Susan about a body augmentation.

Kirby (6:19)

Yes.

Sarah (6:20)

Not a face change.

Kirby (6:21)

Right.

Sarah (6:22)

To me, that's a little different.

Kirby (6:23)

Yes.

Sarah (6:24)

I think that when people physically look at you, if you've changed your face.

Kirby (6:29)

Yeah.

Sarah (6:30)

Because there are some people that I have seen that have gotten, let's say, a blepharoplasty or a rhinoplasty, and it's completely changed how they looked.

Kirby (6:37)

Totally. Like, it erases their ethnic features 100%.

Sarah (6:42)

Or just the uniqueness that they used to have to their face. They look like everybody else now, and they certainly don't look like their children. Totally. So I do think there's a distinction between body enhancements. Like, if you want to get a boob job after you have kids, by all means. Like, I think that's fine. I actually think if you want to get plastic Surgery in general, that's fine too, of course. But I don't think we can overlook the topic of there are children that are looking at us.

Kirby (7:13)

Yeah.

Sarah (7:14)

And wondering, wait, like, your nose is so different. How did that happen? Or as they get older, oh, my mom got a nose job. And when I look at her pictures before me, yeah, she had my same nose exactly. Is that bad?

Kirby (7:26)

Totally. I will say. I interviewed Ami Desai, and she was saying, so she had a consultation for a mommy makeover. She was about to do it, and then the day before, she decided not to. And I think from all intents and purposes, that means, like, it was a body change as well. She has a daughter. And she was like, I don't want my daughter to think that we are defined by our bodies.

Sarah (7:48)

That's a very great point, because I.

Kirby (7:50)

Do think for a lot of women, like, it does change their. Their body shape, that is very genetic. So, like, yeah, it would make her body different than her daughter.

Sarah (7:59)

So, I mean, that's a valid point.

Kirby (8:01)

But I do think the thing that sticks out the most is the face. So I talked to Dr. Min, who is a plastic surgeon, Beverly Hills, and a lot of her patients are moms. And I was just like, is this something that moms feel guilty about? Is it. Do they express a lot of, you know, remorse over it? And she said, yes, but oftentimes it's a back and forth conversation for a very long time before Dr. Min says, okay, like, let's do this, because she wants to be sure. Like, and this is what also, the psychologist that I interviewed also said, you have to ask yourself, like, what is the intention behind this? Like, why do I want to do this? Is it to look a little less tired? Or is there, like, trauma or something that I need to unpack in therapy before I change my whole face? And also, even though your kids are small, even though Zoe is small, like, if I were to do something, she's going to know what's up. They're always watching, they're always observing. And so we really have to, like, model that behavior. And that starts with even just like, looking at ourselves in the mirror and not picking our faces apart, you know, not saying anything negative, which sounds like very easy and simple, but, like, a lot of people just do it. You're like, oh, God, I like, I don't feel great today. Or, mommy needs. Like, mommy needs some makeup or whatever. And so just being really conscious about the way that you talk about yourself. And then, of course, if you do end up doing anything, make it like an ongoing conversation and when they are older, communicate with them because maybe they are going to get bullied for their nose or something like that in school, being prepared to have that conversation with them. So it's very, very nuanced. My personal takeaway is I really don't think I, I am going to get a bluff or a nose job at the end of this, which I really wanted. Even before kids, it's always something I wanted. But now I do really feel like it's important for me to stay this way for my children. Ask me in five years I might change that. What do we say on this podcast?

Sarah (9:46)

Loose.

Kirby (9:47)

Not loose. Lip sync shifts. That's not that. What is it?

Sarah (9:50)

Not loose lips. Loose ships. I mean loose lips do sink chips. No, but what is it that we say? Strong opinions loosely held when we get more information and more life experience. Yep, that is, that is our take.

Kirby (10:02)

Check in with me.

Sarah (10:03)

I will say this though. 1 Janet Johnson, when I was talking to her about this, said she would actually come to California and whoop you if you got anything done to your face at all. So you better be afraid of a nearly 70 year old woman coming to whoop your ass if you decide to touch your face. Thank you. She literally said, you are the most beautiful person.

Kirby (10:24)

Oh my gosh, I love her so much. If you were thinking about this, if you're feeling guilt about it or whatever, we'll link the story and hopefully you'll find a little bit more peace at least to know that other people are thinking about this too.

Sarah (10:36)

So the past couple of weeks we've had some very sad news to report on this podcast and I think everybody was surprised and shocked when they saw the news of Shirley Raines. Shirley Raines passed away last week. She was the founder of Beauty to the Streets. It was reported that she passed away suddenly and so many of the people in the beauty and nonprofit communities are honoring her impact. If you're not familiar with Beauty to the Streets, it was a organization that Shirley used as a beauty tool for dignity and connection. She provided makeovers, hygiene supplies and essentials to unhoused communities in la, helping people feel seen and cared for. I think she also helped those in Nevada as well.

Kirby (11:21)

Yeah, which I think is where she passed, actually.

Sarah (11:24)

Her work reframed beauty as more than aesthetics. It was about humanity and confidence and restoring dignity to people that are often overlooked. And she built a huge volunteer community and inspired countless people in and outside of the beauty industry to give back. And for many beauty media and brand spaces, she was a reminder that this industry can really do good beyond products and trends. I first learned about Shirley when Lexi Lebsack did a video about beauty to the streets. And I remember that was really a jumping off point for so many brands wanting to get involved, donate to the cause, help Ms. Shirley. She was extremely viral on social media. She would post her interactions with people.

Kirby (12:05)

She would go live, like, almost every day. I couldn't believe it. It's just really, really so tragic. But I hope that, you know, her legacy continues and this community that she built will continue to help.

Sarah (12:15)

Yeah, I would love to know if there is a way to help beauty to the streets to continue to thrive and actually help support all the people that she's been supporting for. I'm not sure how long she's been doing this, but it was long enough to make a huge impact on the community. So rest in peace, Shirley reigns. Your legacy will live on. Now we have an Update on Pat McGrath Labs. The day before they were supposed to put their assets up for sale, up for auction, the brand instead filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. And this was done in Florida. And what this means is that the brand can continue operating while restructuring its debt rather than completely shutting down or being auctioned off to new ownership and God knows what happening to it. So in a way, this is a good thing. I think a lot of people hear bankruptcy and they freak out. Lots of businesses file for bankruptcy, file for chapter 11. It's not a great thing.

Kirby (13:11)

No.

Sarah (13:12)

I think that some people have reframed this into being a. You know, this is like a normal thing for businesses to do. It's. It's not. It's a normal thing that businesses do when they're in trouble.

Kirby (13:21)

Right.

Sarah (13:21)

But it's not a normal thing that a good, strong business does.

Kirby (13:25)

Right.

Sarah (13:25)

So the filings show that the brand has 50 to 100 million dollars in liabilities, and they requested emergency approvals to continue paying vendors and employees during this process. I do credit them for doing this because oftentimes when a bankruptcy is filed, the people that actually suffer are the employees that are doing the work. They don't know where their stability is coming from. They don't know if they even have a job. Vendors end up getting screwed in one way or another. So I think this is important. But obviously this is a restructuring time for Pat McGrath Labs. This does not mean that it's disappearing forever. This does not mean that they are shutting down or that they are dead. I think that if they would have auctioned off the brand, that might be More imminent. I think that this is a glimmer of hope that we all really want for this brand because we love it and we love Pat. I'm still curious to see will Pat be as involved?

Kirby (14:18)

Right. Because she has not made any sort of statement. She has been continuing to post on her personal account from Fashion Weeks as if nothing's going on.

Sarah (14:27)

I don't even expect her to because it is a business dealing that may affect the business. If she does say that she wants to stay involved or doesn't want to stay involved.

Kirby (14:38)

Yeah.

Sarah (14:38)

I do think that we have to change some of the narratives that have been going around. When we first talked about the asset sale, the auction, a lot of people did not understand what that meant. They heard sale and they were like, she's getting acquired. And it's obvious that those people are not really tuned into like what's been going on. So there's that aspect. Then I saw a lot of feedback on our video about it that black owned businesses aren't getting a lot of funding or as much funding as other businesses, which is entirely true. But I think it's a detriment to those businesses to lump Pat McGrath Labs within it. Because Pat McGrath Labs is not a unknown beauty founder. She's an icon in the industry. She has created many, if not most of your favorite products that you wear today for a variety of brands on the same level as Charlotte Tilbury. That's where the I think the comparisons should be. Not saying, oh, it just sucks to see another black founder not get the equity or the investment that they deserve in their brand. Because the fact of the matter is.

Kirby (15:45)

Is that people were throwing money at.

Sarah (15:47)

They had several investors. In 2018, we noted this. The brand was valued at over a billion dollars. I'm going to be completely honest, I think that was a very high valuation for what it was at the time.

Kirby (15:59)

I think for any beauty brand, honestly, 100%.

Sarah (16:02)

But I also think that my statement is backed up by the fact that there was reporting that the brand only made $170 million at that point, that is a large jump. I mean, maybe 500 million, 800 million. But to say you're at a billion when the reality is you're only making 170 million. And granted, of course there are things that you keep in mind like public perception and things like of that nature, and we reported this as well, but they took an investment from private equity firm Eurazio and also Sienna investment managers. But then they later marked down the valuation dramatically and both of them pulled Out. And now Eurasio doesn't even exist anymore. Yeah, they've effectively shut down. So I understand wanting to defend this brand because Pat is so beloved. And I very much do want this brand to succeed. Both of us do. We've been very clear about huge, huge fans. But we cannot overlook the fact that, like, there have been many mistakes made with the business structure of this particular brand and this company. And I need someone that knows what's.

Kirby (17:09)

Going on to come in there and. And sort it out, resurrect it.

Sarah (17:12)

Truly, I think valid point that I would like to make here is there was a lot of coming in and coming out of executives at Pat McGrath Labs. And for comparison sake, Charlotte Tilbury has maintained the business of fashion reported this. So I want to give credit where it's due. Business of fashion reported. Charlotte Tilbury has had her CEO, I believe, or at least top executive with the company for 14 years. So there is a stability factor when you're seeing people go in and out all the time of a company, that those are also red flags that are kind of going off for me personally. But all that to say is that there is a glimmer of hope that I would still go buy what you need to buy.

Kirby (17:53)

Yeah. Just in case.

Sarah (17:55)

I want to be safe. I'm like, I'm getting that under eye powder. I'm getting my lips. Like, I'm getting my skin fetish. Yes. I'm getting all of my stuff. So I have it stocked and I have it available as much as I need it to. But this is a good.

Kirby (18:09)

It could be a good thing.

Sarah (18:10)

It could be a very good thing for her. And we obviously wish her the best always.

Kirby (18:14)

Okay. We loved the quiz game from last episode, decided, let's do it again. Kirby Womenswear Daily recently published the top 10 products on Sephora.com from 2025. And this was measured by the online share of sales. There are 10 products that they listed. I would love for you to just guess the top five.

Sarah (18:38)

Okay.

Kirby (18:39)

I have listed all of the products that made the top 10, but obviously in a different order. How do you want to start? Do you want to do it from the first or do you want to just, like, guess and then I can tell you where it landed?

Sarah (18:51)

I don't know. I do have questions. Online share of sales. So, meaning, like, these were the top sold products.

Kirby (18:58)

Yes. These were the 10 most purchased products on sephora.com in 2025.

Sarah (19:04)

Wow. Oh. Of 2020. Okay. Distinction. Thank you completely. Of 2020. Wow. Okay. Because there are Some that I'm like, where are. Where are you?

Kirby (19:14)

I know. Okay, should I read out?

Sarah (19:17)

Why don't you read out for the people?

Kirby (19:18)

Yes, please. Let me read out the 10 that made it. Not in the order that they are ranked. Day Cactus Fruit, three in one Styling Cream and Taming Wand as seen on Los Angeles. You to the people. Superfood Antioxidant Cleanser. Touchlin Power Mist Hydrating Hand Sanitizer. Paula's Choice skin perfecting, 2% BHA liquid exfoliant. The K18 mini leave in Molecular Repair Hair Mask, Summer Friday's Lip Butter Balm Tower 28, SOS Rescue spray topicals, High Roller Ingrown Hair tonic, Kayali Vanilla 28, Eau de Parfum, and the Sephora Collection Nourishing Foot Mask in Coconut and Lavender.

Sarah (19:59)

Okay, is Kayali Vanilla number one?

Kirby (20:01)

No.

Sarah (20:02)

Damn it.

Kirby (20:03)

Is number seven.

Sarah (20:04)

Oh, it's not even the top five. Yeah, this is gonna be hard for me. Then is number one. Summer Fridays. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Wow. They really are those girls.

Kirby (20:15)

The Lip Butter Bomb. And you can tell because when you go to Sephora, it is always. It's a beautiful gondola, but I feel like this disheveled.

Sarah (20:22)

Disheveled always.

Kirby (20:23)

Maybe the younger twins have, like, tried to steal them.

Sarah (20:27)

Yes.

Kirby (20:28)

It's just gone. It's gone.

Sarah (20:30)

Okay, number two, tower 28. SOS Rescue spray number three. Okay. Okay. Close number two. K18.

Kirby (20:39)

Nope, K18 is number eight.

Sarah (20:41)

Damn.

Kirby (20:42)

Number two is something that everyone needs.

Sarah (20:45)

Okay. Touchland Power Mist Hydrating Hand Sanitizer. Wow. A hand sanitizer being the number two. Crazy times have changed.

Kirby (20:56)

We are still traumatized from COVID So Summer Friday's Lip butter bomb number one. Touch Lynn Power Mist hydrating hand sanitizer. Number two, tower 28. SOS Rescue spray number three. Number four. Kirby.

Sarah (21:08)

What do you think is okay? Hold on. Is it the Sephora collection?

Kirby (21:13)

No, that's number six.

Sarah (21:15)

Wow. I'm actually surprised by this. Sephora collection made it into the top 10.

Kirby (21:19)

I know. I love people taking care of their feet.

Sarah (21:21)

Yeah. Interesting. Okay, I don't know. Used to the People Superfood Antioxidant Cleanser.

Kirby (21:27)

Correct.

Sarah (21:28)

Okay.

Kirby (21:28)

I didn't know that that was such a popular. I mean, I know I love the product, but I didn't know it was such a popular product.

Sarah (21:34)

But people like a cleanser. They stick to it. You love that product.

Kirby (21:37)

Exactly. Okay, do you want to guess number five?

Sarah (21:40)

Yeah. Is it Paula's Choice?

Kirby (21:42)

No, that's actually number 10.

Sarah (21:44)

Wow. Then I don't Know.

Kirby (21:46)

Okay. The day.

Sarah (21:47)

Okay, so you're telling me it's Summer Fridays. Touchland.

Kirby (21:50)

Number three is Tower 28. Okay. Number four is you to the people. Number five is day cactus fruit, three in one styling cream and taming wand.

Sarah (21:57)

Okay.

Kirby (21:58)

Number six is Sephora collection nourishing foot mask. Then it's kayali at number seven. And now you just have to guess eight and nine, because 10 is Paula's choice.

Sarah (22:08)

Just tell me eight and nine. Okay.

Kirby (22:09)

It is K18's mini leave in molecular repair hair mask and then topicals.

Sarah (22:14)

Okay. Are the children buying on Sephora.com? because for me, if I'm looking at the top five, those all are, with the exception of you, to the people. Cheaper beauty products.

Kirby (22:26)

Yeah.

Sarah (22:27)

I mean, the styling wand. Yeah.

Kirby (22:29)

Also surprising that there's no, like, makeup.

Sarah (22:32)

Right. I was expecting to see a blush. I was expecting to see rare beauty on here, but maybe because it's online. If you're buying something online and you just want to buy, you like to actually test things out in store.

Kirby (22:44)

Totally.

Sarah (22:44)

So unless you know, you love the product.

Kirby (22:48)

Exactly.

Sarah (22:48)

You're not probably. Okay. Yeah.

Kirby (22:51)

I feel like these are, like, safe purchases where you're like, I know, I like it. I've used it before. I know I need it. I need a refill. But yeah, I see these as like.

Sarah (22:59)

Oh, I want to buy something. Sure.

Kirby (23:01)

Just try it out.

Sarah (23:02)

I'll buy the taming wand. It's probably less than $20. It's my hair. If I don't like it, whatever, I'll return it. But yeah, this is really interesting to me. I would love to know why these ended up the way they did. Initially. When you told me the Sephora's, you know, top online share of sales, I was like, where's Charlotte Tilbury? Don't see road on here.

Kirby (23:25)

Yeah. So it said 364 brands and 16, 662 products were available on Sephora's website in 2025.

Sarah (23:35)

Bonkers. Is that the auto replenish thing? Like a subscription? Almost. Oh, an auto replenish could be a good one. Do you have anything on auto replenish? I have a Lumify subscription.

Kirby (23:47)

Okay. Dog food?

Sarah (23:49)

Same.

Kirby (23:49)

Yeah. Nothing. Nothing Beauty wise.

Sarah (23:52)

Oh, better than balm from Renee Rouleau. Oh, I go through those like water, and I get one every month.

Kirby (23:58)

Matt has a auto replenish for R Co Badlands Dry shampoo.

Sarah (24:04)

That is a really good dry shampoo.

Kirby (24:06)

I'm like, let me get it for. He's like, no, I auto replenish.

Sarah (24:09)

He doesn't want to worry about it.

Kirby (24:10)

He doesn't want to worry about it. He does not want to wait for me. I'm like, all right, fine, go ahead. Totally.

Sarah (24:14)

Have you guys tried any on this list? And if so, what are you auto replenishing? Let us know.

Hannah Berner (24:31)

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