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[00:00]
A
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[00:34]
B
Glam los angeles.
[00:38]
C
Hi, kirby.
[00:40]
B
Hi, sarah.
[00:41]
C
Welcome to los angeles. Okay, some BTs. This is not our first recording with Ms. Lainey Crowell. This is actually our second.
[00:56]
B
Because we had technical difficulties.
[00:59]
C
We did not try to keep anything from anyone.
[01:02]
B
We literally had the best interview. Yeah. And then.
[01:07]
C
But you get the sound.
[01:08]
B
You get the sound and you go, oh, that's actually not even our voices in the microphone. That's being picked up by the cameras.
[01:15]
D
This is take two.
[01:16]
B
This is take two.
[01:17]
C
But the beauty gods were like, no, we don't want to do that. Everything is meant to be. And we are here today for another reason, and we are so grateful. So thank you for coming back.
[01:25]
D
I'm so happy to be back because I love hanging out with you guys.
[01:29]
B
We love talking to you because you're one of us. You are a beauty girl through and through.
[01:33]
D
Through and through.
[01:34]
C
With an editorial background.
[01:35]
B
Yes, exactly. That's exactly why. So when you were here last, Laney, we told you that it was, you know, anecdotal evidence. But our former social media manager, who recently graduated from ucsb, pulled all of her girlfriends and say was their top beauty beauty brand.
[01:56]
D
Their number one love.
[01:58]
B
Say it was their number one. And we were also talking about the cute little luggage cases, the little vanity cases, and how we were like, oh, those are. Those are so cute. And. And Joby was like, how do I get one of them? And we were like, oh, these are the coveted extremely.
[02:16]
C
I mean, they sell out within seconds.
[02:19]
B
We're just bonkers.
[02:21]
D
They are now, though, in stock. Okay. We were like. People were getting so upset. Yeah. We were like, we can't, like, be disappointing our community like this. And so they are in stock on say hello.com. it's the only place you can find them. But, like, get them. They are also the best Christmas or holiday present.
[02:39]
B
Totally.
[02:40]
C
They're super, super cute. And then the minis. Everyone loves a mini. Those sell out, like, so fast too.
[02:46]
D
I mean, it's like the most adorable little thing. And you, like, people carry them as purses.
[02:49]
B
They're precious. Absolutely precious. Okay, Lainey, as we said, beauty girl through and through. What is on your face? What are you using? Obviously you're testing, say, products years in advance.
[03:00]
D
So, yeah, you probably can ready with me so hard. Like, people always, like, show me your routine. I'm like, well, I really can't because I'm testing things that maybe we won't even launch. I'm testing things that are launching two years from now. And I love making sure that, like, everything is really, really tested before. You know, making sure that everything works with everything. That's one of my biggest pet peeves is that, like, you go and try products from a brand and something don't work together. So for me, like, the everything has to work with Chloe Super Gel. Everything has to work with Lipton. Everything has to work with Zublush. Okay, but what am I loving right now? I'm loving the Sophie POV it Rich cream. I am honestly using her full routine right now. My skin is really responding incredibly well to it. Have you guys gotten a facial rescue spa before in New York?
[03:46]
B
I have. That was where I first got a biologic.
[03:49]
D
Okay, well, there's a new line there from the owner rescue spa called Dan you Sarah. I discovered it because they were doing the skin care backstage at Calmier when we were doing the makeup. They invited me and I was blown away. Now I go every single month. Like, the facials are beautiful. The products are beautiful. They actually have a toner like the biologique one, but it's less harsh. It's if you have sensitive skin like me, because, you know, I have really sensitive acne prone skin. So I have to be so careful with everything that I use. Okay, what's on my hair?
[04:19]
C
Is there a specific product from Denucera that you're like, okay, you should try this.
[04:23]
D
The toner.
[04:24]
C
The toner.
[04:24]
B
Okay.
[04:25]
D
The toner is a must. Like, everyone uses it and is like, whoa. Like, you really notice a difference.
[04:31]
C
Okay. Your beautiful, gorgeous hair. What is in there?
[04:35]
D
My gosh. I try so much hair stuff. I feel like I'm really, really into the Chris McMillan line. Same the texturizing spray.
[04:44]
C
I use that today. And the hairspray.
[04:46]
D
You're a beauty editor.
[04:47]
B
You're a beauty editor.
[04:48]
D
You know what? Honestly, after say, I'm going to go back to beauty editing.
[04:52]
C
No, you're not.
[04:54]
D
This is never going to be an after say. I'm Having the time of my life. Like, I am having so much fun.
[04:59]
C
Yeah.
[05:00]
B
We love. We love Chris. Have you ever met Chris?
[05:02]
D
Love Chris.
[05:03]
B
Just a gem.
[05:04]
D
Yes.
[05:05]
B
The crazy, loveliest man ever. And his products are so good. They're all I use now.
[05:11]
C
And they smell really good, which is so important for hair products. I just like, I'm just like in a cloud of Chris McMillan hair. It's amazing. So you just celebrated six years of SEI. Happy birthday.
[05:23]
D
Thank you.
[05:23]
C
I read that SEI has since crossed the hundred million dollar sales mark, which is a milestone two years ago. No way.
[05:31]
B
What? Okay, well then this. What. What number is it now?
[05:35]
D
I'm not sharing. I'm not sharing.
[05:36]
B
Okay, that was two years ago.
[05:39]
C
So this article that I read needed to be updated.
[05:41]
B
It's.
[05:42]
C
It says that. Yeah, fastest growing clean beauty brands. But you guys are like literally legacy status. It's your. It's a st now for so many people. How is, say similar to when you launched it and how is it different?
[05:56]
D
My gosh, that is such a good question. Because for me, it feels so much the same. Like, I think we have been so clear on our North Star, which has been such a part of our success. I think when you guys know where the name of the brand comes from, right?
[06:08]
C
Yes.
[06:08]
B
But say it again, because some people don't know.
[06:11]
D
So I had a blog, like all true con editors do. And, um, now it's my substack. And I realized that there was just no clean color. And so I went on Instagram and I started asking the blog community, like, what would you make if you could make something? And they were like, here's exactly what you should make. You should make a clean makeup line that's really. Has incredible ingredients, that is really high performance. Those two things are almost juxtaposed. Right. They don't think. They realized when they were saying it, like, how hard that is to do, but definitely such a huge part of our success. They wanted a brand that was really lust worthy, you know, like when you get butterflies when you. You know. And I. I always felt that way when I walked into NARS or when I went up to the YSL counter. And I wanted that with products that were really making my skin better. And then of course, they wanted it at a great price point.
[07:02]
B
Yeah.
[07:02]
D
Which for me, as an editor, you don't realize prices unless you're really paying attention.
[07:07]
C
Totally.
[07:07]
D
Because you're sent everything for free. You're not going and using your own money most of the time, which is.
[07:12]
B
A blessing in some ways. But Then a curse in others. Cause it's like you're really just focused on the product itself and you're like, I love it. And then you're like, it's a hundred and something dollars for not a ton of products.
[07:24]
D
What I realized in the creation of say is that so much of cost comes from packaging. And so we really invest in the formulas because that was what my community was saying they wanted. They wanted high performance, incredible formulas, which has been such a part of why people. There's that cult following with say because the formulas are it. And like people always say on, on TikTok, they're like, sei never misses. And I think that's just because for us that has always been the focus is the product. Almost everyone who started with me at SEI is still here. I've just been buying people their five year anniversary presence. And so for me it's like we're just still kind of in that beginning baby stage, even though we are now six years old. So I don't know, for me it does still feel very much like the same when we started.
[08:13]
C
Yeah.
[08:13]
B
I think about say, and it's so funny that it's six years, like we turned six this year as well. And people are like, you've been doing this for a long time. And I'm like, but I feel like we are just getting started in so many different ways.
[08:26]
D
Oh, totally. I feel like I'm just getting started.
[08:28]
B
How have you changed as a brand founder?
[08:31]
D
Oh my gosh. Lots of different ways. Actually. I very much though that emotion of I feel like I'm just getting started every day. I feel that way.
[08:40]
B
Yeah.
[08:40]
D
I feel like I'm like, this is just the teeny tiny beginning though. I feel like I've stepped into my power as a person. I'm way more confident, I think, because I'm doing what I'm meant to be doing. I think also when you are an owner of a brand, like you have to get better at putting yourself out there in lots of ways. But for me, like, I think a great example is like when I started fundraising, I remember someone saying to me, like, okay, well that person just said no to you. But now you have to go and go back to them and say, can you introduce me to someone else? I thought that was crazy. When someone told me that, I was like, that's so like, really? I'm going to ask someone to like connect me with somebody. I don't even know them. I wouldn't even blink an eye now with that. I mean, I'm much more comfortable in my own shoes. And when you look at, like, legacy brands, which is What I'm creating, six years is nothing. Yeah.
[09:33]
B
100%.
[09:34]
C
But also I think in this industry that we're in, we see so many brands start and then like, literally shutter within a year or two.
[09:43]
D
Yes.
[09:43]
C
So six years is something I think, to feel really proud of.
[09:47]
B
Yeah. Do you feel ever, though, pressure? I just, I'm thinking from like, your point of view, where it's like, you have so much on your plate. You're the also the face of the brand. Right. But how. How do you balance, like, people coming at you and saying, okay, we got to hit these goals. We have to do this. Retailers being like, well, this is going to be a new trend, or we have this new campaign that we want to put you a part of, but you don't have a thing for this.
[10:09]
D
Yes.
[10:10]
B
It's just a lot of.
[10:11]
D
It's a lot outside opinions. Well, I think you start thriving off of it. I think that's one thing that's happened for me is like, the. Honestly, the more that comes at me, like, the more energized I get. Someone asked me the other day, they're like, how do you, like, do it all? And we'd had it particularly we called it an unhinged episode of Keeping up with say, because say moves at, say, speed. And we are just, as you've said, like, we've grown really quickly. And we had one week that was just like, you couldn't make up the stuff that was happening.
[10:39]
B
And.
[10:39]
D
And I just like, literally, like, let it flow through me. And at 6pm I'm done every single day and I'm with my kids like that. The computer shuts and I'm. My phone is away and I'm just focused with them and I'm a hundred percent present with them until they go to sleep. And they don't go to sleep till like, 9:30. So, you know, I think that the. With everything coming at you, like, you find your own way, you know, I have to get my steps every single day. I work out often. I don't drink coffee.
[11:08]
C
You're a Matcha girl.
[11:09]
D
Matcha girl.
[11:09]
B
Good for you. I need to get on that train immediately. Lainey, what do you think separates say from your competitors, especially at Sephora? Sarah and I talk a lot about the Sephora ecosystem. We go in there and we know that SEI is one of those top brands that we're going to see in store, that we're going to see people gathered around the gondola, the end cap, wherever it is in that particular store. Do you feel competitive with other brands or how do you separate yourself?
[11:43]
D
Totally. I've never felt competitive and if I ever do feel competitive, I like nip it in the bud immediately because I think that's an energy that you do not want to be putting out into the universe. There's a great quote about if you are, because we are all one. If you're competing with someone else, you're really competing against yourself. And so I always remind myself of that, of like I'm going to be pushing things away from me if I'm competing with other people. Maybe that's a little woo woo, but like that's my take on it. But I also think we're doing things so differently that it doesn't matter. Like we've always been in our own lane with, you know, I believe that makeup should be good for your skin. And so our formulas are packed with like nourishing ingredients. We're really focused on improving your skin when you wear our products and really no one else is having that conversation. We're also so dialed in with our community. Our community is voracious. There's a cult like following with us that is something that we are really focused on. To be totally honest. Like we are always thinking about our community first. And I don't know, I think when those two things are what you're thinking about, you don't get so caught up with like a trend or this or you know, there was just this huge artistry animation at Sephora. I'm not a makeup artist. I'm never going to be a makeup artist. And so we're just kind of like in our own lane, doing our own thing.
[13:06]
C
Yeah, totally. Yeah. Something you mentioned and that you mentioned the last time we recorded was your definition of clean beauty and how to you that really means more about the ingredients that are good for your skin. Less so than you know, how the other brands are defining clean beauty to them. So can you explain to our listeners what clean means to you? And to say totally.
[13:32]
D
And I think it's. I can always link it back to my skin. So I have really acne prone skin. And for me, I will never forget when I realized that the foundation stick I was using was breaking me out and in that was like an unlock aha. Moment of I was like, oh my God, like this product is doing this to my skin.
[13:51]
B
You may recall that we had Tatcha's founder Vicky Sy on the show a little bit earlier. This year for the second time, and I'm still thinking about how she builds rituals of daily self love, little pauses that restore calm and joy.
[14:03]
C
And honestly, the product that nails that feeling for moi is the Dewy skin cream. It is this decadently rich moisturizer that plumps the look of fine lines and seals in moisture for that signature dewy glow. Glow.
[14:16]
B
I gotta say, when you said moi, you said plump, you said glow. There was someone that came to mind. There was someone that came to mind, and I'll let y' all figure out who that is. It literally cocoons my skin in a comforting, replenishing feeling. And the glow lasts, like, even under makeup.
[14:37]
C
It's truly the best. And no wonder. It is their best selling moisturizer, a dewy skin color cream, is sold every 30 seconds.
[14:45]
B
Not surprised, though. Ready to join the dewy side? Enjoy. 15 off your first purchase at tatcha.com with code GLOSSANGELIS15.
[14:54]
C
That's GLOSSANGELAS15 for 15 off your first order@tatcha.com.
[15:05]
D
I also felt very betrayed in that moment by the brand. You know, I invested. I think the stick was like 50 or $60. I was in my 20s. That was a lot of money for me to have spent. It was like a luxury item for me. And it was making my skin, like, even to the point where a friend said something to me, they were like, what's going on with your skin? And so for me, clean means ingredients that are really good for your skin, ingredients that aren't going to irritate your skin. So we formulate everything to be for the most sensitive skin type. Knowing that, then somebody who doesn't have sensitive skin, it'll also work on them, of course. But why not have your makeup hydrating your skin, nourishing your skin, brightening your skin. So we have jojoba esters, we have licorice root extract. We have really beautiful ingredients that are going to be benefiting your skin versus, like a dimethicone, for example, which might give you, like, a really beautiful slip, but could clog your pores or just honestly isn't doing anything for your skin. We all want to feel good, and so we generally eat 80% healthy food, and then we eat 20% not healthy. And that's totally cool. And our bodies are happy with that. And for me, that's the same with my makeup. It's like, as long as I'm using 80% formulas that are safe for sensitive skin and acne safe and non comedogenic, my skin's gonna Be really happy. And then of course, like, I'm gonna use an eyeliner, I'm gonna put on a fake lash. And like, I don't know, to me that's a balance.
[16:34]
C
Yeah.
[16:35]
D
Similar to food.
[16:36]
C
Do you have any thoughts on especially, I feel like in this moment in time, especially in the beauty industry of brands that are sort of using clean as like a weapon and, you know, fear mongering and scaring and preying on women. I mean, we, Kirby and I talk about it all the time, but, you know, because say is clean can sort of get looped into that conversation. Do you have any thoughts on that? Do you kind of like, again, stay in your lane?
[17:04]
B
Because I think about you, Laney specifically. And I, I. You are very much a, A person that stands up for what you believe in.
[17:11]
D
Yes.
[17:12]
B
Like, when I think of say, I think of all the initiatives that say has really started. Instigated is not the right word, but like, yeah, really.
[17:20]
D
I mean, we started the largest abortion rights campaign. Right. And that was not something that was that many. I mean, I think 60 brands joined, but I had hundreds of brands say, no, they weren't going to join that because they felt that it was controversial. And to me, there was nothing controversial about that. That was just something that as a beauty brand for us, like 90% of our consumers are women, but it's a no brainer to stand up for women's rights. In terms of like the clean question, I think we've never been very purposely ever talked about anything fear mongery, because clean to me is about formulas that are benefiting your skin. I think that I also want to feel good when I'm buying makeup. Like, for me, like, beauty is a luxury moment. And so, like, I want to feel excited, I want to feel happy, like, I don't want to be thinking about something negative.
[18:08]
B
You don't want to be buying something just because some other brand was like, scares you into it.
[18:14]
C
Right.
[18:14]
B
Sarah and I see a ton of this. We get pitched a ton of it.
[18:17]
D
Okay.
[18:18]
B
And so that's why, you know, our listeners are primarily women and we talk a lot about the fact that women and minority groups are often the ones preyed upon the most within the beauty industry altogether. So I think that you and SEI have been able to showcase like, this is what clean means to us. Without this component of, like, everything else is like going to poison you.
[18:43]
D
Yeah, no, we'll never, we would never talk about that because I also think you can use a mix of products and that's everyone's gonna use a mix of products. So no one uses just one brand, right?
[18:53]
B
Totally. I was actually curious, has there been a celebrity or influencer rather that when they talked about, say, you guys were like, times have changed thing.
[19:04]
D
This is crazy. You know that? Oh, my gosh. There's been so many. I want to say the one that immediately came to my mind, though, was Alex Earl.
[19:13]
C
Okay.
[19:14]
B
She just really delivers.
[19:16]
D
When she started using say, I mean, that is one person that if they start using your product, when she starts using your product, it sells out.
[19:25]
C
What product was it?
[19:26]
D
Do you remember Glowy Super Gel and Sunglow? She still uses it.
[19:29]
B
It's so good.
[19:30]
D
She still uses it almost every day when she comes.
[19:32]
B
Can you talk to us about Glowy Super Gel? Because truly, like, I. I think I still have it on my person. Like, I was wearing it last night. I have the tiny version in my bag. I love it. Tell me more about that product. Is that a point of entry for people to the brand?
[19:47]
D
It is the number one point of entry. So that product, when I created that, nobody knew what it was like. No one had a category to put it in. It wasn't a highlighter, it wasn't a primer. And I just felt so passionate about it because the formula was this lit from within glow, and, you know, it wasn't strobing. There was no glitter. There was no glitter in it. But at the time, like, that was really weird. Like, it was very weird not to have a product that gave you a bold look. And so, you know, I had to really fight for it. And in terms of, like, it was actually before we had launched at Sephora. And I don't know what would have happened if I had pitched them that product in terms of, like, you know, it was a category disruptor, which is always a little risky. It's now the number one highlighter at Sephora. And I was telling Sarah we actually. Of the top five highlighters at Sephora, three of them are Glowy Super Gel in different shades.
[20:45]
B
No way.
[20:45]
C
Yeah. That's incredible.
[20:47]
B
There's a consistency to it that's also so different from, like, any type of creamy lotion fluid highlighter out there. I was getting ready last night, going through all of my. And I was like, okay, why am I even trying anything else? Like, put it all over my face, my ears, my collar.
[21:03]
D
That's how I use it. I put it all over and it.
[21:06]
B
Just dries down so nicely. I think that's the thing that I. I have oily skin. So, yeah, if I put on anything that's too shiny. I look crazy.
[21:17]
D
Any skin type crazy?
[21:19]
B
Yeah.
[21:20]
C
I think some of them are, like, just overboard, like, way too much. Like you want to look like you're naturally glowing.
[21:26]
D
You know, that's the look that I love.
[21:27]
C
Yeah.
[21:28]
B
And I love that you brought up, you know, the Sephora of it all. And like, that's, I think one thing that maybe the customers don't realize. If they're like, lainey, why haven't you made this product yet? And it's like, maybe I have been trying or maybe I would love to. However, like, you have to have, like, where is this going to fit?
[21:47]
D
And where's it going to fit? Does it make. Is it going to earn its right on the shelf in terms of, you know, you only have so much space. It needs to be productive. And you do think when you're at Sephora, you think about the landscape a little bit differently than if you're not in store because, you know you're next to other brands. Literally, you're right next to them. So how is that going to. How are you going to differentiate yourself?
[22:13]
C
So what did you launch with at Sephora?
[22:15]
D
So the story was Sephora. So they called me the day after the announcement post on Women's Wear Daily had gone live. And it was like a one sentence email. I thought I was getting punked. It was like, hey, this is Sharon from Sephora. Would like to talk. Sharon. Like that was. And I was like, is this real? Like, it felt like spam.
[22:36]
C
Yeah.
[22:37]
D
And we got on the phone and I told them about the brand and they. We flew to San Francisco multiple times. We had lots of conversations, but I only had three products when we launched Mascara 101 and then a brow product and a lip product. And it was the most no makeup, makeup look you could ever do. And they were like, you're not ready. And they were totally right. Like the way we were talking about how the podcast didn't record that we have a saying at say everything works out for say, even when you don't think it has, it has. And that is such a perfect example. We weren't ready. We needed more products. We needed more experience. I had never started a brand before. I was not a supply chain expert. I'm still not a supply chain expert, but I still had so much to learn and get right. And Covid hit four months later. So imagine if I had bought all that inventory. We'd gone into store without any awareness. Everything works out.
[23:31]
B
Totally.
[23:32]
C
Totally. That's amazing.
[23:33]
B
Okay, it says that say has struck a chord with Gen Z in a way that feels really authentic. As we mentioned earlier, so many brands.
[23:42]
C
Are trying to do what you do.
[23:43]
B
The girlies are loving it.
[23:45]
D
Yeah. I think it's because we're not trying to. Honestly, you guys, I think it's because we're not trying so hard.
[23:50]
B
Right, right.
[23:50]
C
But at the same time, like, I'm.
[23:52]
B
Not Gen Z neither.
[23:53]
C
I was gonna say I love the products because they work for me, but I'm not 25. And, you know, they're obsessed with it just as much as we are, so there is something.
[24:03]
D
You know who's most obsessed with it, though? Our moms.
[24:06]
C
Oh, yes.
[24:07]
B
Totally the moms.
[24:08]
D
Because it's. The products are so hydrating and that no makeup, easy, effortless look is like, perfect when you're in your 50s and 60s, you know, you don't want anything that's heavy.
[24:18]
C
100%.
[24:19]
B
We often see your products trending on TikTok. I feel like you guys are really good at TikTok. I love TikTok and, or. Or people just using them and get ready with me.
[24:29]
D
Yes.
[24:30]
B
And your makeup. We don't mention the makeup. Mini bag sold out almost immediately the last time we spoke.
[24:37]
C
Yeah.
[24:38]
B
How do you think about virality?
[24:40]
D
Yeah.
[24:40]
B
Is this. You have a team, right. Of people that work on social media and they, like, know what they're doing. But, like, in your head, is it like, oh, I thought this product launch was going to really do the damn thing and then it didn't. And then how do you feel?
[24:59]
D
I think virality is something that feels so exciting and then when it does happen, it's actually really stressful and I don't know that it's the best thing for the brand.
[25:08]
C
Yeah.
[25:08]
D
Like, I am building a legacy brand that will be around for my daughters and their daughters. And that's because I believe so much in our formulas and what we're doing for people's skin. And to have that virality moment means that you will be non viral. And I don't. I don't think that's what you want for your brand. And of course it happens and it's exciting and it's been part of our success.
[25:31]
C
But.
[25:32]
D
But we are never aiming for that. We're never hoping that's going to happen.
[25:36]
C
Yeah. But this actually leads us to the new product that.
[25:41]
D
Oh, my gosh.
[25:42]
C
I have been testing. And Kirby, when you were not here yet, Lainey shared a really great story around it because there was a leak that went viral.
[25:51]
B
No. What?
[25:52]
D
Yes.
[25:53]
B
No.
[25:54]
C
Yes. Should we talk about the product first or should we talk about the TikTok?
[25:57]
B
Okay, let's talk about the product. People know what we're talking about. So meet City Set. This is such an amazing product. So Lainey had reached out to us and was like, we have this launch and if I'm, you know, we were like, we have to do a make good on this podcast. Like, this is like, this is a great. Everything works out for sale.
[26:17]
D
We didn't get to talk about this last time.
[26:19]
B
So true. It's so true. We could even talk about the powder you guys had launched because it hadn't come out yet. Right?
[26:25]
C
My favorite.
[26:25]
B
So tell everybody about City Set.
[26:28]
D
Our community has been asking us for setting spray, you guys, since I launched the brand. And most setting sprays are hairspray. I mean, that was actually how setting spray was started. People were spraying their face with. It was with hairspray. And I have really sensitive skin, so I could never use a setting spray. So I understood why the community was asking for it. But when we started developing it, I couldn't get there. I couldn't get the hold. And so it took us five years. I still have the samples and I could get a beautiful hydration spray. I could get a refreshing spray, but I could never get a setting spray until we discovered hydrolyzed cornstarch. City Set sets your makeup for 16 hours.
[27:04]
B
And there's no alcohol.
[27:05]
D
There's no alcohol. Alcohol free. It's fragrance free. It does, of course, have beautiful hydration properties to it. And you feel that. And your skin never gets dry or flaky. It never disrupts your makeup. You're never going to get any cakiness from. Feels amazing. I mean, it might be the launch I'm the most proud of because it took so long to create this formula and we achieved exactly what we were going for.
[27:32]
B
The pump of it. It's so fine. Is that the technical term?
[27:35]
D
Yeah. So this took us a real. The Mr. It took us a really. It's like, now you just want to do it.
[27:39]
B
Yeah.
[27:40]
C
No, I was saying, I'm like, that's enough hydrolyzed cornstarch for my face, I think.
[27:44]
B
But I could keep going.
[27:46]
D
The. The Mr. Is this ultra fine Mr. Because people were complaining that setting sprays would disrupt their makeup. Yeah. Because the Mr. Would kind of attack you. Yes. And of course it can be. We had to do non aerosol, but I think that the. The ultra fine mist we achieved is very aerosol, like, and how fine it is and kind of all over misting. But of course, without the aerosol. Guys, it's. This is groundbreaking.
[28:13]
C
It also protects your skin from environmental stressors like pollution and UV radiation. I mean, it does it. She hydrates and soothes, she protects. She gives you a dewy finish and.
[28:24]
B
She sets your makeup. Yeah, I feel like. Does it look dewy on you? Is that the, like, what y' all are claiming? Because on me, it looks natural.
[28:30]
C
It looks natural.
[28:31]
D
I think it's a natural radiance.
[28:32]
B
Yes.
[28:33]
D
Okay. Our community really, like, they're very specific. They wanted a dewy setting spray, and I was like, what do you mean by that? Yeah, I don't think you really mean dewy. I think you want a little bit of a glow.
[28:45]
C
Yes.
[28:46]
D
And it achieves that. And like, I was saying, like, I. I want to set my makeup for that glow that it gives, but, yeah, I think it's like a natural radiance.
[28:55]
C
Tell us about the tick tock.
[28:57]
D
Oh, my gosh.
[28:57]
B
So I was like, what happened?
[28:59]
D
Okay, so Sephora has a partnership with Kohl's. Kohl's has some very remote locations. So they ship product out really early. And of course, the locations that are closer to the distribution centers get it first. So somebody went to Kohl's and City Set had been put out on a shelf for to purchase with p touched little labels. And this TikTok user maybe has like 500 followers. The video has 400,000 views, hundreds of comments, thousands of saves. There are now people green screening that video. Being like, I had been. I had been searching say's trademarks because they had been wanting a setting spray and they saw City Set. So they were like, we were hoping it was a city set. Little detectives. So now that's like, it's just out there.
[29:49]
B
But isn't that crazy that the ecosystem of fans of beauty brands are looking up trademarks?
[29:57]
C
They've gotten so smart.
[29:58]
B
I mean, this is what Sarah and I do as reporters.
[30:01]
D
I'm so flattered by it. Yeah, I think it's great. And there, of course, was that moment when I saw the TikTok and I was like, oh, my God. Like, we have exclusive press lined up.
[30:10]
C
Right?
[30:11]
D
You know, we've been working on this launch for a really long time. So of course we have, like, this really beautiful communication and marketing strategy that. That we've been working on, and this just totally disrupts it. But then how.
[30:24]
B
How do you. How do you essentially do a 180 and say, okay, well, so one user.
[30:30]
D
Was green screening this super viral TikTok and was being was so thoughtful about it. And we've actually worked with her before and she was kind of, you know, talking about, well, like, I wonder what if it's going to be like this? Or I wonder if it's going to be like that. And the comments were so interesting. I read every single comment. And so we reached out and I said, can I get on a zoom with you? So I'm going to talk to her on Friday and just me and her and I'm going to like tell her all about the product and what makes it so special and see what happens. I mean, that's what I'm saying. Like, it disrupts everything.
[31:00]
C
Isn't that, like, it's not a bad.
[31:02]
D
Thing, but isn't that kind of fun and cool? You guys, like, those of us who came from print, like, it's such a different world and I'm like, power to the people.
[31:11]
B
I mean, it's amazing. But like, on our end, I would be so pissed. I would be pissed, like whoever has the exclusive. Yeah, yeah. I'd be like, like these. But you're like, what can you do?
[31:20]
D
What can you do?
[31:21]
C
And it's honestly great. It builds up so much excitement for products that it's deserving of it.
[31:26]
B
A little press moment without. Actually, you don't have any press.
[31:29]
C
You didn't pay a dime.
[31:31]
D
I mean, we, we did reach out though and ask them to take it off. I mean, yeah, you're like, can you bought it? They were able to buy it.
[31:37]
B
No.
[31:38]
D
Yes.
[31:38]
C
Wow, that floor manager is so.
[31:41]
B
Everyone's freaking out.
[31:42]
D
We haven't even sent out PR packages yet.
[31:45]
B
Everyone's like, how did this happen?
[31:46]
C
It's literally that girl and us.
[31:48]
B
Yeah.
[31:49]
C
Okay, so this comes out the 26th, December 26th. Now you have shared some fun info with us about like launching a product on the 26th and why it's like such a good idea.
[32:01]
D
Oh my gosh. I can't believe we talked about that. I mean, for us, we just discovered that it's like a major, major time for us. It's right after Christmas. So people have received their Sephora gift cards. No one has school or work, so they're shopping, they have more time to shop. People return the things that they didn't want and immediately buy what they do want. So having newness at that time is amazing. And because we are so skincare minded in our formulations, January is a major month for us.
[32:32]
B
That is so interesting to me. Yeah. When you told us this, I'm like the 26. Because we get pitched A lot of things. Like, hey, we have this brand launch. Do you guys want to do a seating? Do you want to, like. And we're like, no, babe. Like, we're gonna be on vacation. Y. Ever.
[32:46]
D
I'm in a beach chair.
[32:47]
B
Yeah, right.
[32:48]
D
You will. Meanwhile, we're at work.
[32:51]
B
Exactly. But, I mean, it makes sense. It totally makes sense. Okay.
[32:54]
C
Laney, you launched a substack, or say launched their substack, which I feel like it was one of the first brands to get on the platform, which just makes sense. You know, with your editorial background, why did you decide to join the platform?
[33:09]
D
I mean, I love it. Don't you guys?
[33:10]
C
Yeah.
[33:11]
D
Oh, I do.
[33:11]
B
My main.
[33:12]
D
I love it.
[33:13]
B
Bestseller over here. She is.
[33:16]
D
I love substack. Yeah.
[33:18]
C
And how has that, you know, opened another door for you to connect with your community, really?
[33:23]
D
I didn't come from a marketing background, but I think really great marketers are ones that are like, I'm loving this. Other people are loving this. So let's do it, and let's do it quick, let's do it fast, and let's do it well. And if it doesn't work, we'll move on. So do you guys know Paige? She was at Allure.
[33:42]
B
Yes.
[33:42]
C
Yes.
[33:43]
B
Oh, yes. She's with you guys now.
[33:44]
D
Yeah. So I. I tapped her. So she runs our substack. She's amazing. I would. It's, like, a little funny how close she and I are on it. I'm like, I. You know, as the CEO, I have a lot to do, but I review every single substack. We brainstorm all the topics together. We do a lot with the team members. Like, people are really interested in team say and who we are and what we're up to. And so, like, we just. We're working on a post on everyone's manicure type.
[34:12]
C
What's your manicure type?
[34:14]
D
So I'm a shiny buff girl, but I have one other thing that I do, and it's a dark nail. And that's what I have on today.
[34:21]
B
A shiny buff. I love that.
[34:23]
C
Have you found a lot of success in terms of, you know, your community? Loving to be able to. To read this, you know, BTS behind.
[34:30]
D
The company, because we were so early, we did get, you know, some really nice growth just being early on the platform. And then we've started doing collab posts. We started, like, reaching out to different members. I started the podcast on substack. Do you know that they have that feature?
[34:44]
C
Yes.
[34:44]
B
Yes.
[34:45]
C
I thought with you and Sophie. You just did one.
[34:47]
D
Yeah. I don't have the bandwidth to do a podcast like you guys do, but there are times where I want to have a longer conversation. And so there's no schedule, there's no anything. It just, I'll do a podcast when I have time, and that's really fun. I have my own personal substack because I love storytelling. And so we'll do collab posts together. We're just having a good time on it.
[35:09]
B
Okay. When this episode comes out, we'll have to do a collab with Los Angeles.
[35:13]
D
Oh, yeah.
[35:13]
C
Great.
[35:14]
B
Oh, my God. Amazing. So fun because we embed every episode in it too, so people can go.
[35:18]
D
And watch you guys. There's so many things we could talk about on there. Yes. Oh, my gosh.
[35:21]
B
A lot of fun.
[35:22]
D
We could do all of our tips from being an editorial, like, our top tips from editorial from, like, back in the day.
[35:27]
B
That's going to be a four part.
[35:28]
C
Series, like, except for none of it's relevant anymore, so.
[35:31]
D
I know, but that's, that's what makes it interesting.
[35:34]
C
Yeah, totally.
[35:35]
B
You know what? You're right. Okay. Laney, I really would love to know. I, I, I love talking to you because I feel like you really are thoughtful with every response that you give. And as business women, I, I just want to know, like, has there been a time in your career where you were like, I failed, but I learned something significant from this failure, and it wasn't like, I can't do it.
[36:00]
D
Yes. So many. I mean, I think first, my daughter said something to me the other day and like, it's, it's hard to put yourself in your kids shoes of, like, how they see you. And, and she said, I forget what happened, but something didn't go her way. And I said, and she, she goes, mom, but you never fail. And I was like, babe, I was like, I fail many, many times every day. I was like, what matters is how fast you transition. You know who taught me that? My sister. My sister works at Nike. The number one most important attribute of a successful athlete is their transition time. How fast they can get up after they've fallen down or missed a tennis ball or missed a shot or whatever. I think about that all the time. It doesn't actually matter if you fail. What matters is how fast you can pivot. I've failed a lot in terms of hiring. Like, I've made hires that weren't right hires. I don't, I wouldn't say a lot, but I've, I've, there's been a couple times where I've hired people that weren't right, which was hard because, as I mentioned, like, most people are still with me. I learned a lot from that. I think the thing that I keep learning over and over again is that my instincts are right.
[37:11]
B
I love that.
[37:11]
C
That's amazing.
[37:12]
B
I love when you're like, yeah, I actually knew better.
[37:17]
D
I knew all along.
[37:18]
B
Yeah, right?
[37:19]
D
Yeah.
[37:19]
B
Yeah. Lainey, before we let you go, I want to know our beauty editor, girl at heart. What do you think is going to be big in 2026 without giving away your secrets?
[37:33]
D
Probably Taylor Swift's wedding makeup look is going to be really big. I think people are going to be really looking at that moment in terms of, like, what she wears. I think people are going to be doing their more of their own thing. Have you guys been feeling, like, a lot of sameness? And I've been seeing a shift away from all the sameness of people buying a lot of vintage, of people being more creative in any way, but that, like, that is having now more value than the sameness that was. Had been happening.
[38:03]
B
Yeah, totally.
[38:05]
C
Celebrating our.
[38:06]
B
I know.
[38:06]
D
Those are two very different answers.
[38:08]
C
No, we're. We're watching you, Taylor Swift.
[38:10]
B
Yes, we are. Lainey, thank you for coming back, doing round two with us.
[38:15]
D
Oh, my gosh. Should we just keep doing? Can I just be a comeback?
[38:21]
C
We'd love for you to be a contributor. Yes.
[38:23]
B
And then everyone can find us when we do our substack collab. Yeah, that'll be a lot of fun. We're definitely going to figure that out.
[38:28]
D
Done. Yes.
[38:40]
B
So good, so good, so good.
[38:42]
C
Score. Holiday gifts. Everyone wants for way less at your Nordstrom Rack store. Save on Ugg, Nike, Rag and Bone.
[38:50]
D
Vince Frame, Kurt Geiger, London, and more. Because there's always something new.
[38:54]
C
I'm giving all the gifts this year.
[38:56]
D
With that extra 5% off when I.
[38:58]
C
Use my Nordstrom credit card. Santa who join the Nordy Club at Nordstrom Rack to unlock our best deals. It's easy. Big gifts, big perks.
[39:08]
D
That's why you rack.

Summary8 min read

Gloss Angeles Podcast Summary

Episode: Saie Founder Laney Crowell on Building a Gen Z Beauty Powerhouse
Original Release: December 19, 2025
Hosts: Kirbie Johnson & Sara Tan
Guest: Laney Crowell, Founder of Saie

Overview

This lively conversation features Laney Crowell, founder of Saie, a clean beauty brand that has skyrocketed in popularity among Gen Z and gained a cult following. Kirbie and Sara chat with Laney about Saie’s rapid growth, its authentic connection to different generations, the meaning of “clean beauty,” product development stories, social media virality, and memorable brand moments, including how a product leak on TikTok changed their launch plans and why legacy matters more than viral trends. Laney also shares personal insights as a founder, her editorial roots, and predictions for the future of beauty.

Key Topics & Insights

Reuniting with Laney: A Second Attempt at Recording

[00:38]–[01:28] The episode humorously begins with Kirbie and Sara recounting technical difficulties during their first interview attempt with Laney. Both hosts express gratitude for Laney’s willingness to return, emphasizing the camaraderie and shared beauty editorial roots between the trio.

Editorial Roots & Saie’s Gen Z Appeal

[01:33]–[02:20]
- Saie’s immense popularity among college-aged women is highlighted, with former staffers calling Saie their “number one” brand.
- Discussion of highly coveted Saie vanity cases and “minis” that sell out instantly.
- Laney announces they’re now back in stock:
  
  “They are now, though, in stock...get them. They are also the best Christmas or holiday present.” (Laney, 02:20)

Laney’s Current Routine: Obsession with Testing & Holy Grail Formulas

[02:45]–[04:24]
- Laney talks about the products she’s loving, mentioning the “Sophie POV it Rich cream” and Danucera’s toner from Rescue Spa in NYC for sensitive, acne-prone skin.
- Hair: Laney and the hosts rave about Chris McMillan’s line, especially the texturizing spray.
- Emotional note:
  
  “I am having the time of my life. Like, I am having so much fun.” (Laney, 04:54)

Saie’s Growth & Staying True to the Mission

[05:22]–[08:28]
- Saie’s six-year journey discussed; the brand passed $100M in sales two years ago but Laney coyly declines to share the current figure.
- Laney recounts Saie’s origins: a clean makeup line with effective, high-performance formulas at an accessible price point—a challenge her community responded to directly.
- A focus on formula over packaging, investing resources in performance.
  
  “There’s that cult following because the formulas are it...on TikTok, they’re like, Saie never misses.” (Laney, 07:23)

The Founder’s Journey: Growth, Power, and Resilience

[08:28]–[09:32]
- Laney describes her newfound confidence and willingness to “step into her power,” especially when navigating fundraising and business setbacks.
  
  “It doesn’t actually matter if you fail. What matters is how fast you can pivot...my instincts are right.” (Laney, 36:00/37:10)

Pressure, Balance & Life as the Face of Saie

[09:42]–[11:07]
- Laney shares how she maintains boundaries—shutting her computer every day by 6pm to focus on her children; emphasizes the importance of self-care (daily steps, working out, drinking matcha instead of coffee).
  
  “Let it flow through me. And at 6pm I’m done every single day.” (Laney, 10:39)

Saie’s Place in Beauty: Competition & Community

[11:09]–[13:06]
- Despite being surrounded by competitors at Sephora, Laney rejects competitiveness as an energy:
  
  “If you’re competing with someone else, you’re really competing against yourself...we’re just kind of like in our own lane, doing our own thing.” (Laney, 11:42)
- Saie focuses on nourishing formulas and tight community connections—a formula other brands struggle to replicate.

Defining “Clean Beauty” – Substance over Scare Tactics

[13:32]–[16:35]
- Laney’s perspective: Clean means “ingredients that are really good for your skin” and safe for sensitive types.
  
  “We formulate everything to be for the most sensitive skin type...why not have your makeup hydrating your skin, nourishing your skin, brightening your skin?” (Laney, 15:04)
- She compares makeup to food—an “80/20” balance of healthy vs fun.
On Fear-mongering in Clean Beauty [16:34]–[18:43]:
- Saie avoids fear tactics and embraces a positive, inclusive approach.
  
  “We would never talk about [other brands poisoning you] because I also think you can use a mix of products and...no one uses just one brand, right?” (Laney, 18:43)

The Power of Influencers: The Alex Earle Effect

[18:52]–[20:44]
- When TikTok superstar Alex Earle began using Saie’s Glowy Super Gel, it sold out—demonstrating the power influencers have over product demand.
  
  “When she starts using your product, it sells out…” (Laney, 19:15)
- Glowy Super Gel: Saie’s entry point “category disruptor”—now the top highlighter at Sephora.

Retail Realities: Sephora, Product Strategy, and Launch Stories

[21:46]–[23:30]
- Saie's initial pitch to Sephora: only three products and was, as Laney says, “not ready.”
- Emphasizes that timing and preparation are critical—Covid could have derailed them if they’d moved too early.

Authenticity with Gen Z & Multi-generational Appeal

[23:33]–[24:19]
- Discusses authentic Gen Z connection and the importance of products that work for all ages—mothers, daughters, everyone.
  
  “...our moms...because the products are so hydrating and that no makeup, easy, effortless look is, like, perfect when you're in your 50s and 60s.” (Laney, 24:05)

Virality on TikTok: Benefits and Pitfalls

[24:39]–[25:31]
- Laney views social media virality as double-edged:
  
  “Virality...when it happens, it’s actually really stressful and I don’t know that it’s the best thing for the brand. I am building a legacy brand...” (Laney, 25:07)
- Not aiming for viral moments, but recognizes their role in brand growth.

The City Set Story: Product Launch & The TikTok Leak

[25:35]–[30:24]
- Saie’s new “City Set” setting spray: a 5-year development using hydrolyzed cornstarch for 16-hour makeup hold, alcohol- & fragrance-free, hydrating, with a super-fine mist.
  
  “It might be the launch I'm the most proud of because it took so long to create this formula and we achieved exactly what we were going for.” (Laney, 27:31)
- Product launch was preempted by a TikTok leak from an early Kohl’s shelf—generating huge social buzz before official PR began.
- Instead of frustration, Laney pivoted:
  
  “I’m so flattered by it...There was that moment when I saw the TikTok…and this just totally disrupts it. But then how do you...essentially do a 180?” (Laney, 30:00/30:24)
- Laney personally reached out to the TikTok creator, intending to connect and share about the product.

Launch Strategies: Post-Holiday Timing & Capitalizing on Shopping Trends

[31:48]–[32:31]
- Launching on December 26th leverages holiday gift cards, SHOP returns, and shopper downtime.
  
  “It’s like a major, major time for us...Right after Christmas. January is a major month for us.” (Laney, 32:00)

Building Community through Substack

[32:54]–[35:09]
- Saie among the first beauty brands on Substack; managed by ex-Allure editor Paige, with Laney closely involved.
- Provides a new, intimate channel for community-building and brand storytelling—collab posts, team features, even limited-audio podcasts.
  
  “I didn’t come from a marketing background...I review every single Substack. We brainstorm all the topics together.” (Laney, 33:23)

Leadership Lessons & Learning from Failure

[35:34]–[37:11]
- Laney shares insights about failure, transition time, and trusting her instincts.
  
  “‘It doesn’t actually matter if you fail. What matters is how fast you can pivot.’...I learned a lot from that. I think the thing that I keep learning over and over again is that my instincts are right.” (Laney, 36:00/37:10)

Looking Ahead: Beauty Trends & Next Waves

[37:18]–[38:10]
- Laney predicts a Taylor Swift “wedding makeup moment” will influence beauty in 2026, and notes a shift away from sameness—more creativity, vintage looks, and individuality.
  
  “I think people are going to be doing more of their own thing...now more value than the sameness that was happening.” (Laney, 37:32)

Notable Quotes

“[Saie’s] formulas are it...on TikTok, they’re like, Saie never misses.” (Laney, 07:23)
“If you’re competing with someone else, you’re really competing against yourself...we’re just kind of like in our own lane.” (Laney, 11:42)
“Clean means ingredients that are really good for your skin...for the most sensitive skin type.” (Laney, 15:04)
“It doesn’t actually matter if you fail. What matters is how fast you can pivot...my instincts are right.” (Laney, 36:00/37:10)
“Virality...when it happens, it’s actually really stressful and I don’t know that it’s the best thing for the brand. I am building a legacy brand...” (Laney, 25:07)
“[City Set] might be the launch I'm the most proud of because it took so long to create this formula.” (Laney, 27:31)

Memorable Moments & Timestamps

Saie’s cult-favorite minis and vanity cases launched for the holidays – [02:16]
The Chris McMillan hair line love fest – [04:19]
Laney on self-doubt and the journey from editor to founder – [08:28, 09:32]
Glowy Super Gel taking over TikTok and Sephora highlighter charts – [19:12, 20:44]
The saga of the City Set TikTok leak – [25:53, 29:49]
The “transition time” lesson on recovering from failure – [36:00]

Summary Table of Key Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | Key Takeaways | |-------------------------------|---------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Intro & Re-recording | 00:38–01:28 | Technical glitches led to a second, improved conversation with Laney | | Saie’s Gen Z Popularity | 01:33–02:20 | Cult following among young consumers, viral products | | Routine & Product Testing | 02:59–04:24 | Laney tests everything, loves Danucera toner & Chris McMillan hair products | | Growth & Brand Mission | 05:22–08:28 | Focus on product formulas, clear North Star, community feedback | | Defining Clean Beauty | 13:32–18:43 | Focus on beneficial ingredients rather than scare tactics | | Influencer Power | 18:52–20:44 | Alex Earle’s endorsement causes immediate sellout | | City Set Launch & Leak | 25:35–30:24 | New setting spray went viral before launch due to TikTok leak, prompting a pivot | | Community-Building on Substack| 32:54–35:09 | Editorial approach to marketing, early adopter advantage | | Leadership & Learning | 35:34–37:11 | Value of rapid recovery from setbacks and trust in intuition | | 2026 Beauty Predictions | 37:18–38:10 | Anticipates a Taylor Swift wedding makeup influence and creative individuality trends |

Final Reflections

Tone: Warm, candid, irreverently expert
Style: Inside baseball for beauty editors with approachable, real-life advice

Laney Crowell’s journey with Saie is a case study in building an authentic, beloved beauty brand through editorial values, meaningful community engagement, and a “formulas-first” mindset. Whether navigating viral TikTok moments, redefining “clean,” or launching hits like the Glowy Super Gel and City Set, Laney personifies adaptability and thoughtful leadership in today’s competitive beauty landscape.

For more insights, find Gloss Angeles wherever you listen to podcasts and keep an eye out for the next Saie x Gloss Angeles Substack collaboration!

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Transcript290 lines

[00:00]
A
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[00:34]
B
Glam los angeles.
[00:38]
C
Hi, kirby.
[00:40]
B
Hi, sarah.
[00:41]
C
Welcome to los angeles. Okay, some BTs. This is not our first recording with Ms. Lainey Crowell. This is actually our second.
[00:56]
B
Because we had technical difficulties.
[00:59]
C
We did not try to keep anything from anyone.
[01:02]
B
We literally had the best interview. Yeah. And then.
[01:07]
C
But you get the sound.
[01:08]
B
You get the sound and you go, oh, that's actually not even our voices in the microphone. That's being picked up by the cameras.
[01:15]
D
This is take two.
[01:16]
B
This is take two.
[01:17]
C
But the beauty gods were like, no, we don't want to do that. Everything is meant to be. And we are here today for another reason, and we are so grateful. So thank you for coming back.
[01:25]
D
I'm so happy to be back because I love hanging out with you guys.
[01:29]
B
We love talking to you because you're one of us. You are a beauty girl through and through.
[01:33]
D
Through and through.
[01:34]
C
With an editorial background.
[01:35]
B
Yes, exactly. That's exactly why. So when you were here last, Laney, we told you that it was, you know, anecdotal evidence. But our former social media manager, who recently graduated from ucsb, pulled all of her girlfriends and say was their top beauty beauty brand.
[01:56]
D
Their number one love.
[01:58]
B
Say it was their number one. And we were also talking about the cute little luggage cases, the little vanity cases, and how we were like, oh, those are. Those are so cute. And. And Joby was like, how do I get one of them? And we were like, oh, these are the coveted extremely.
[02:16]
C
I mean, they sell out within seconds.
[02:19]
B
We're just bonkers.
[02:21]
D
They are now, though, in stock. Okay. We were like. People were getting so upset. Yeah. We were like, we can't, like, be disappointing our community like this. And so they are in stock on say hello.com. it's the only place you can find them. But, like, get them. They are also the best Christmas or holiday present.
[02:39]
B
Totally.
[02:40]
C
They're super, super cute. And then the minis. Everyone loves a mini. Those sell out, like, so fast too.
[02:46]
D
I mean, it's like the most adorable little thing. And you, like, people carry them as purses.
[02:49]
B
They're precious. Absolutely precious. Okay, Lainey, as we said, beauty girl through and through. What is on your face? What are you using? Obviously you're testing, say, products years in advance.
[03:00]
D
So, yeah, you probably can ready with me so hard. Like, people always, like, show me your routine. I'm like, well, I really can't because I'm testing things that maybe we won't even launch. I'm testing things that are launching two years from now. And I love making sure that, like, everything is really, really tested before. You know, making sure that everything works with everything. That's one of my biggest pet peeves is that, like, you go and try products from a brand and something don't work together. So for me, like, the everything has to work with Chloe Super Gel. Everything has to work with Lipton. Everything has to work with Zublush. Okay, but what am I loving right now? I'm loving the Sophie POV it Rich cream. I am honestly using her full routine right now. My skin is really responding incredibly well to it. Have you guys gotten a facial rescue spa before in New York?
[03:46]
B
I have. That was where I first got a biologic.
[03:49]
D
Okay, well, there's a new line there from the owner rescue spa called Dan you Sarah. I discovered it because they were doing the skin care backstage at Calmier when we were doing the makeup. They invited me and I was blown away. Now I go every single month. Like, the facials are beautiful. The products are beautiful. They actually have a toner like the biologique one, but it's less harsh. It's if you have sensitive skin like me, because, you know, I have really sensitive acne prone skin. So I have to be so careful with everything that I use. Okay, what's on my hair?
[04:19]
C
Is there a specific product from Denucera that you're like, okay, you should try this.
[04:23]
D
The toner.
[04:24]
C
The toner.
[04:24]
B
Okay.
[04:25]
D
The toner is a must. Like, everyone uses it and is like, whoa. Like, you really notice a difference.
[04:31]
C
Okay. Your beautiful, gorgeous hair. What is in there?
[04:35]
D
My gosh. I try so much hair stuff. I feel like I'm really, really into the Chris McMillan line. Same the texturizing spray.
[04:44]
C
I use that today. And the hairspray.
[04:46]
D
You're a beauty editor.
[04:47]
B
You're a beauty editor.
[04:48]
D
You know what? Honestly, after say, I'm going to go back to beauty editing.
[04:52]
C
No, you're not.
[04:54]
D
This is never going to be an after say. I'm Having the time of my life. Like, I am having so much fun.
[04:59]
C
Yeah.
[05:00]
B
We love. We love Chris. Have you ever met Chris?
[05:02]
D
Love Chris.
[05:03]
B
Just a gem.
[05:04]
D
Yes.
[05:05]
B
The crazy, loveliest man ever. And his products are so good. They're all I use now.
[05:11]
C
And they smell really good, which is so important for hair products. I just like, I'm just like in a cloud of Chris McMillan hair. It's amazing. So you just celebrated six years of SEI. Happy birthday.
[05:23]
D
Thank you.
[05:23]
C
I read that SEI has since crossed the hundred million dollar sales mark, which is a milestone two years ago. No way.
[05:31]
B
What? Okay, well then this. What. What number is it now?
[05:35]
D
I'm not sharing. I'm not sharing.
[05:36]
B
Okay, that was two years ago.
[05:39]
C
So this article that I read needed to be updated.
[05:41]
B
It's.
[05:42]
C
It says that. Yeah, fastest growing clean beauty brands. But you guys are like literally legacy status. It's your. It's a st now for so many people. How is, say similar to when you launched it and how is it different?
[05:56]
D
My gosh, that is such a good question. Because for me, it feels so much the same. Like, I think we have been so clear on our North Star, which has been such a part of our success. I think when you guys know where the name of the brand comes from, right?
[06:08]
C
Yes.
[06:08]
B
But say it again, because some people don't know.
[06:11]
D
So I had a blog, like all true con editors do. And, um, now it's my substack. And I realized that there was just no clean color. And so I went on Instagram and I started asking the blog community, like, what would you make if you could make something? And they were like, here's exactly what you should make. You should make a clean makeup line that's really. Has incredible ingredients, that is really high performance. Those two things are almost juxtaposed. Right. They don't think. They realized when they were saying it, like, how hard that is to do, but definitely such a huge part of our success. They wanted a brand that was really lust worthy, you know, like when you get butterflies when you. You know. And I. I always felt that way when I walked into NARS or when I went up to the YSL counter. And I wanted that with products that were really making my skin better. And then of course, they wanted it at a great price point.
[07:02]
B
Yeah.
[07:02]
D
Which for me, as an editor, you don't realize prices unless you're really paying attention.
[07:07]
C
Totally.
[07:07]
D
Because you're sent everything for free. You're not going and using your own money most of the time, which is.
[07:12]
B
A blessing in some ways. But Then a curse in others. Cause it's like you're really just focused on the product itself and you're like, I love it. And then you're like, it's a hundred and something dollars for not a ton of products.
[07:24]
D
What I realized in the creation of say is that so much of cost comes from packaging. And so we really invest in the formulas because that was what my community was saying they wanted. They wanted high performance, incredible formulas, which has been such a part of why people. There's that cult following with say because the formulas are it. And like people always say on, on TikTok, they're like, sei never misses. And I think that's just because for us that has always been the focus is the product. Almost everyone who started with me at SEI is still here. I've just been buying people their five year anniversary presence. And so for me it's like we're just still kind of in that beginning baby stage, even though we are now six years old. So I don't know, for me it does still feel very much like the same when we started.
[08:13]
C
Yeah.
[08:13]
B
I think about say, and it's so funny that it's six years, like we turned six this year as well. And people are like, you've been doing this for a long time. And I'm like, but I feel like we are just getting started in so many different ways.
[08:26]
D
Oh, totally. I feel like I'm just getting started.
[08:28]
B
How have you changed as a brand founder?
[08:31]
D
Oh my gosh. Lots of different ways. Actually. I very much though that emotion of I feel like I'm just getting started every day. I feel that way.
[08:40]
B
Yeah.
[08:40]
D
I feel like I'm like, this is just the teeny tiny beginning though. I feel like I've stepped into my power as a person. I'm way more confident, I think, because I'm doing what I'm meant to be doing. I think also when you are an owner of a brand, like you have to get better at putting yourself out there in lots of ways. But for me, like, I think a great example is like when I started fundraising, I remember someone saying to me, like, okay, well that person just said no to you. But now you have to go and go back to them and say, can you introduce me to someone else? I thought that was crazy. When someone told me that, I was like, that's so like, really? I'm going to ask someone to like connect me with somebody. I don't even know them. I wouldn't even blink an eye now with that. I mean, I'm much more comfortable in my own shoes. And when you look at, like, legacy brands, which is What I'm creating, six years is nothing. Yeah.
[09:33]
B
100%.
[09:34]
C
But also I think in this industry that we're in, we see so many brands start and then like, literally shutter within a year or two.
[09:43]
D
Yes.
[09:43]
C
So six years is something I think, to feel really proud of.
[09:47]
B
Yeah. Do you feel ever, though, pressure? I just, I'm thinking from like, your point of view, where it's like, you have so much on your plate. You're the also the face of the brand. Right. But how. How do you balance, like, people coming at you and saying, okay, we got to hit these goals. We have to do this. Retailers being like, well, this is going to be a new trend, or we have this new campaign that we want to put you a part of, but you don't have a thing for this.
[10:09]
D
Yes.
[10:10]
B
It's just a lot of.
[10:11]
D
It's a lot outside opinions. Well, I think you start thriving off of it. I think that's one thing that's happened for me is like, the. Honestly, the more that comes at me, like, the more energized I get. Someone asked me the other day, they're like, how do you, like, do it all? And we'd had it particularly we called it an unhinged episode of Keeping up with say, because say moves at, say, speed. And we are just, as you've said, like, we've grown really quickly. And we had one week that was just like, you couldn't make up the stuff that was happening.
[10:39]
B
And.
[10:39]
D
And I just like, literally, like, let it flow through me. And at 6pm I'm done every single day and I'm with my kids like that. The computer shuts and I'm. My phone is away and I'm just focused with them and I'm a hundred percent present with them until they go to sleep. And they don't go to sleep till like, 9:30. So, you know, I think that the. With everything coming at you, like, you find your own way, you know, I have to get my steps every single day. I work out often. I don't drink coffee.
[11:08]
C
You're a Matcha girl.
[11:09]
D
Matcha girl.
[11:09]
B
Good for you. I need to get on that train immediately. Lainey, what do you think separates say from your competitors, especially at Sephora? Sarah and I talk a lot about the Sephora ecosystem. We go in there and we know that SEI is one of those top brands that we're going to see in store, that we're going to see people gathered around the gondola, the end cap, wherever it is in that particular store. Do you feel competitive with other brands or how do you separate yourself?
[11:43]
D
Totally. I've never felt competitive and if I ever do feel competitive, I like nip it in the bud immediately because I think that's an energy that you do not want to be putting out into the universe. There's a great quote about if you are, because we are all one. If you're competing with someone else, you're really competing against yourself. And so I always remind myself of that, of like I'm going to be pushing things away from me if I'm competing with other people. Maybe that's a little woo woo, but like that's my take on it. But I also think we're doing things so differently that it doesn't matter. Like we've always been in our own lane with, you know, I believe that makeup should be good for your skin. And so our formulas are packed with like nourishing ingredients. We're really focused on improving your skin when you wear our products and really no one else is having that conversation. We're also so dialed in with our community. Our community is voracious. There's a cult like following with us that is something that we are really focused on. To be totally honest. Like we are always thinking about our community first. And I don't know, I think when those two things are what you're thinking about, you don't get so caught up with like a trend or this or you know, there was just this huge artistry animation at Sephora. I'm not a makeup artist. I'm never going to be a makeup artist. And so we're just kind of like in our own lane, doing our own thing.
[13:06]
C
Yeah, totally. Yeah. Something you mentioned and that you mentioned the last time we recorded was your definition of clean beauty and how to you that really means more about the ingredients that are good for your skin. Less so than you know, how the other brands are defining clean beauty to them. So can you explain to our listeners what clean means to you? And to say totally.
[13:32]
D
And I think it's. I can always link it back to my skin. So I have really acne prone skin. And for me, I will never forget when I realized that the foundation stick I was using was breaking me out and in that was like an unlock aha. Moment of I was like, oh my God, like this product is doing this to my skin.
[13:51]
B
You may recall that we had Tatcha's founder Vicky Sy on the show a little bit earlier. This year for the second time, and I'm still thinking about how she builds rituals of daily self love, little pauses that restore calm and joy.
[14:03]
C
And honestly, the product that nails that feeling for moi is the Dewy skin cream. It is this decadently rich moisturizer that plumps the look of fine lines and seals in moisture for that signature dewy glow. Glow.
[14:16]
B
I gotta say, when you said moi, you said plump, you said glow. There was someone that came to mind. There was someone that came to mind, and I'll let y' all figure out who that is. It literally cocoons my skin in a comforting, replenishing feeling. And the glow lasts, like, even under makeup.
[14:37]
C
It's truly the best. And no wonder. It is their best selling moisturizer, a dewy skin color cream, is sold every 30 seconds.
[14:45]
B
Not surprised, though. Ready to join the dewy side? Enjoy. 15 off your first purchase at tatcha.com with code GLOSSANGELIS15.
[14:54]
C
That's GLOSSANGELAS15 for 15 off your first order@tatcha.com.
[15:05]
D
I also felt very betrayed in that moment by the brand. You know, I invested. I think the stick was like 50 or $60. I was in my 20s. That was a lot of money for me to have spent. It was like a luxury item for me. And it was making my skin, like, even to the point where a friend said something to me, they were like, what's going on with your skin? And so for me, clean means ingredients that are really good for your skin, ingredients that aren't going to irritate your skin. So we formulate everything to be for the most sensitive skin type. Knowing that, then somebody who doesn't have sensitive skin, it'll also work on them, of course. But why not have your makeup hydrating your skin, nourishing your skin, brightening your skin. So we have jojoba esters, we have licorice root extract. We have really beautiful ingredients that are going to be benefiting your skin versus, like a dimethicone, for example, which might give you, like, a really beautiful slip, but could clog your pores or just honestly isn't doing anything for your skin. We all want to feel good, and so we generally eat 80% healthy food, and then we eat 20% not healthy. And that's totally cool. And our bodies are happy with that. And for me, that's the same with my makeup. It's like, as long as I'm using 80% formulas that are safe for sensitive skin and acne safe and non comedogenic, my skin's gonna Be really happy. And then of course, like, I'm gonna use an eyeliner, I'm gonna put on a fake lash. And like, I don't know, to me that's a balance.
[16:34]
C
Yeah.
[16:35]
D
Similar to food.
[16:36]
C
Do you have any thoughts on especially, I feel like in this moment in time, especially in the beauty industry of brands that are sort of using clean as like a weapon and, you know, fear mongering and scaring and preying on women. I mean, we, Kirby and I talk about it all the time, but, you know, because say is clean can sort of get looped into that conversation. Do you have any thoughts on that? Do you kind of like, again, stay in your lane?
[17:04]
B
Because I think about you, Laney specifically. And I, I. You are very much a, A person that stands up for what you believe in.
[17:11]
D
Yes.
[17:12]
B
Like, when I think of say, I think of all the initiatives that say has really started. Instigated is not the right word, but like, yeah, really.
[17:20]
D
I mean, we started the largest abortion rights campaign. Right. And that was not something that was that many. I mean, I think 60 brands joined, but I had hundreds of brands say, no, they weren't going to join that because they felt that it was controversial. And to me, there was nothing controversial about that. That was just something that as a beauty brand for us, like 90% of our consumers are women, but it's a no brainer to stand up for women's rights. In terms of like the clean question, I think we've never been very purposely ever talked about anything fear mongery, because clean to me is about formulas that are benefiting your skin. I think that I also want to feel good when I'm buying makeup. Like, for me, like, beauty is a luxury moment. And so, like, I want to feel excited, I want to feel happy, like, I don't want to be thinking about something negative.
[18:08]
B
You don't want to be buying something just because some other brand was like, scares you into it.
[18:14]
C
Right.
[18:14]
B
Sarah and I see a ton of this. We get pitched a ton of it.
[18:17]
D
Okay.
[18:18]
B
And so that's why, you know, our listeners are primarily women and we talk a lot about the fact that women and minority groups are often the ones preyed upon the most within the beauty industry altogether. So I think that you and SEI have been able to showcase like, this is what clean means to us. Without this component of, like, everything else is like going to poison you.
[18:43]
D
Yeah, no, we'll never, we would never talk about that because I also think you can use a mix of products and that's everyone's gonna use a mix of products. So no one uses just one brand, right?
[18:53]
B
Totally. I was actually curious, has there been a celebrity or influencer rather that when they talked about, say, you guys were like, times have changed thing.
[19:04]
D
This is crazy. You know that? Oh, my gosh. There's been so many. I want to say the one that immediately came to my mind, though, was Alex Earl.
[19:13]
C
Okay.
[19:14]
B
She just really delivers.
[19:16]
D
When she started using say, I mean, that is one person that if they start using your product, when she starts using your product, it sells out.
[19:25]
C
What product was it?
[19:26]
D
Do you remember Glowy Super Gel and Sunglow? She still uses it.
[19:29]
B
It's so good.
[19:30]
D
She still uses it almost every day when she comes.
[19:32]
B
Can you talk to us about Glowy Super Gel? Because truly, like, I. I think I still have it on my person. Like, I was wearing it last night. I have the tiny version in my bag. I love it. Tell me more about that product. Is that a point of entry for people to the brand?
[19:47]
D
It is the number one point of entry. So that product, when I created that, nobody knew what it was like. No one had a category to put it in. It wasn't a highlighter, it wasn't a primer. And I just felt so passionate about it because the formula was this lit from within glow, and, you know, it wasn't strobing. There was no glitter. There was no glitter in it. But at the time, like, that was really weird. Like, it was very weird not to have a product that gave you a bold look. And so, you know, I had to really fight for it. And in terms of, like, it was actually before we had launched at Sephora. And I don't know what would have happened if I had pitched them that product in terms of, like, you know, it was a category disruptor, which is always a little risky. It's now the number one highlighter at Sephora. And I was telling Sarah we actually. Of the top five highlighters at Sephora, three of them are Glowy Super Gel in different shades.
[20:45]
B
No way.
[20:45]
C
Yeah. That's incredible.
[20:47]
B
There's a consistency to it that's also so different from, like, any type of creamy lotion fluid highlighter out there. I was getting ready last night, going through all of my. And I was like, okay, why am I even trying anything else? Like, put it all over my face, my ears, my collar.
[21:03]
D
That's how I use it. I put it all over and it.
[21:06]
B
Just dries down so nicely. I think that's the thing that I. I have oily skin. So, yeah, if I put on anything that's too shiny. I look crazy.
[21:17]
D
Any skin type crazy?
[21:19]
B
Yeah.
[21:20]
C
I think some of them are, like, just overboard, like, way too much. Like you want to look like you're naturally glowing.
[21:26]
D
You know, that's the look that I love.
[21:27]
C
Yeah.
[21:28]
B
And I love that you brought up, you know, the Sephora of it all. And like, that's, I think one thing that maybe the customers don't realize. If they're like, lainey, why haven't you made this product yet? And it's like, maybe I have been trying or maybe I would love to. However, like, you have to have, like, where is this going to fit?
[21:47]
D
And where's it going to fit? Does it make. Is it going to earn its right on the shelf in terms of, you know, you only have so much space. It needs to be productive. And you do think when you're at Sephora, you think about the landscape a little bit differently than if you're not in store because, you know you're next to other brands. Literally, you're right next to them. So how is that going to. How are you going to differentiate yourself?
[22:13]
C
So what did you launch with at Sephora?
[22:15]
D
So the story was Sephora. So they called me the day after the announcement post on Women's Wear Daily had gone live. And it was like a one sentence email. I thought I was getting punked. It was like, hey, this is Sharon from Sephora. Would like to talk. Sharon. Like that was. And I was like, is this real? Like, it felt like spam.
[22:36]
C
Yeah.
[22:37]
D
And we got on the phone and I told them about the brand and they. We flew to San Francisco multiple times. We had lots of conversations, but I only had three products when we launched Mascara 101 and then a brow product and a lip product. And it was the most no makeup, makeup look you could ever do. And they were like, you're not ready. And they were totally right. Like the way we were talking about how the podcast didn't record that we have a saying at say everything works out for say, even when you don't think it has, it has. And that is such a perfect example. We weren't ready. We needed more products. We needed more experience. I had never started a brand before. I was not a supply chain expert. I'm still not a supply chain expert, but I still had so much to learn and get right. And Covid hit four months later. So imagine if I had bought all that inventory. We'd gone into store without any awareness. Everything works out.
[23:31]
B
Totally.
[23:32]
C
Totally. That's amazing.
[23:33]
B
Okay, it says that say has struck a chord with Gen Z in a way that feels really authentic. As we mentioned earlier, so many brands.
[23:42]
C
Are trying to do what you do.
[23:43]
B
The girlies are loving it.
[23:45]
D
Yeah. I think it's because we're not trying to. Honestly, you guys, I think it's because we're not trying so hard.
[23:50]
B
Right, right.
[23:50]
C
But at the same time, like, I'm.
[23:52]
B
Not Gen Z neither.
[23:53]
C
I was gonna say I love the products because they work for me, but I'm not 25. And, you know, they're obsessed with it just as much as we are, so there is something.
[24:03]
D
You know who's most obsessed with it, though? Our moms.
[24:06]
C
Oh, yes.
[24:07]
B
Totally the moms.
[24:08]
D
Because it's. The products are so hydrating and that no makeup, easy, effortless look is like, perfect when you're in your 50s and 60s, you know, you don't want anything that's heavy.
[24:18]
C
100%.
[24:19]
B
We often see your products trending on TikTok. I feel like you guys are really good at TikTok. I love TikTok and, or. Or people just using them and get ready with me.
[24:29]
D
Yes.
[24:30]
B
And your makeup. We don't mention the makeup. Mini bag sold out almost immediately the last time we spoke.
[24:37]
C
Yeah.
[24:38]
B
How do you think about virality?
[24:40]
D
Yeah.
[24:40]
B
Is this. You have a team, right. Of people that work on social media and they, like, know what they're doing. But, like, in your head, is it like, oh, I thought this product launch was going to really do the damn thing and then it didn't. And then how do you feel?
[24:59]
D
I think virality is something that feels so exciting and then when it does happen, it's actually really stressful and I don't know that it's the best thing for the brand.
[25:08]
C
Yeah.
[25:08]
D
Like, I am building a legacy brand that will be around for my daughters and their daughters. And that's because I believe so much in our formulas and what we're doing for people's skin. And to have that virality moment means that you will be non viral. And I don't. I don't think that's what you want for your brand. And of course it happens and it's exciting and it's been part of our success.
[25:31]
C
But.
[25:32]
D
But we are never aiming for that. We're never hoping that's going to happen.
[25:36]
C
Yeah. But this actually leads us to the new product that.
[25:41]
D
Oh, my gosh.
[25:42]
C
I have been testing. And Kirby, when you were not here yet, Lainey shared a really great story around it because there was a leak that went viral.
[25:51]
B
No. What?
[25:52]
D
Yes.
[25:53]
B
No.
[25:54]
C
Yes. Should we talk about the product first or should we talk about the TikTok?
[25:57]
B
Okay, let's talk about the product. People know what we're talking about. So meet City Set. This is such an amazing product. So Lainey had reached out to us and was like, we have this launch and if I'm, you know, we were like, we have to do a make good on this podcast. Like, this is like, this is a great. Everything works out for sale.
[26:17]
D
We didn't get to talk about this last time.
[26:19]
B
So true. It's so true. We could even talk about the powder you guys had launched because it hadn't come out yet. Right?
[26:25]
C
My favorite.
[26:25]
B
So tell everybody about City Set.
[26:28]
D
Our community has been asking us for setting spray, you guys, since I launched the brand. And most setting sprays are hairspray. I mean, that was actually how setting spray was started. People were spraying their face with. It was with hairspray. And I have really sensitive skin, so I could never use a setting spray. So I understood why the community was asking for it. But when we started developing it, I couldn't get there. I couldn't get the hold. And so it took us five years. I still have the samples and I could get a beautiful hydration spray. I could get a refreshing spray, but I could never get a setting spray until we discovered hydrolyzed cornstarch. City Set sets your makeup for 16 hours.
[27:04]
B
And there's no alcohol.
[27:05]
D
There's no alcohol. Alcohol free. It's fragrance free. It does, of course, have beautiful hydration properties to it. And you feel that. And your skin never gets dry or flaky. It never disrupts your makeup. You're never going to get any cakiness from. Feels amazing. I mean, it might be the launch I'm the most proud of because it took so long to create this formula and we achieved exactly what we were going for.
[27:32]
B
The pump of it. It's so fine. Is that the technical term?
[27:35]
D
Yeah. So this took us a real. The Mr. It took us a really. It's like, now you just want to do it.
[27:39]
B
Yeah.
[27:40]
C
No, I was saying, I'm like, that's enough hydrolyzed cornstarch for my face, I think.
[27:44]
B
But I could keep going.
[27:46]
D
The. The Mr. Is this ultra fine Mr. Because people were complaining that setting sprays would disrupt their makeup. Yeah. Because the Mr. Would kind of attack you. Yes. And of course it can be. We had to do non aerosol, but I think that the. The ultra fine mist we achieved is very aerosol, like, and how fine it is and kind of all over misting. But of course, without the aerosol. Guys, it's. This is groundbreaking.
[28:13]
C
It also protects your skin from environmental stressors like pollution and UV radiation. I mean, it does it. She hydrates and soothes, she protects. She gives you a dewy finish and.
[28:24]
B
She sets your makeup. Yeah, I feel like. Does it look dewy on you? Is that the, like, what y' all are claiming? Because on me, it looks natural.
[28:30]
C
It looks natural.
[28:31]
D
I think it's a natural radiance.
[28:32]
B
Yes.
[28:33]
D
Okay. Our community really, like, they're very specific. They wanted a dewy setting spray, and I was like, what do you mean by that? Yeah, I don't think you really mean dewy. I think you want a little bit of a glow.
[28:45]
C
Yes.
[28:46]
D
And it achieves that. And like, I was saying, like, I. I want to set my makeup for that glow that it gives, but, yeah, I think it's like a natural radiance.
[28:55]
C
Tell us about the tick tock.
[28:57]
D
Oh, my gosh.
[28:57]
B
So I was like, what happened?
[28:59]
D
Okay, so Sephora has a partnership with Kohl's. Kohl's has some very remote locations. So they ship product out really early. And of course, the locations that are closer to the distribution centers get it first. So somebody went to Kohl's and City Set had been put out on a shelf for to purchase with p touched little labels. And this TikTok user maybe has like 500 followers. The video has 400,000 views, hundreds of comments, thousands of saves. There are now people green screening that video. Being like, I had been. I had been searching say's trademarks because they had been wanting a setting spray and they saw City Set. So they were like, we were hoping it was a city set. Little detectives. So now that's like, it's just out there.
[29:49]
B
But isn't that crazy that the ecosystem of fans of beauty brands are looking up trademarks?
[29:57]
C
They've gotten so smart.
[29:58]
B
I mean, this is what Sarah and I do as reporters.
[30:01]
D
I'm so flattered by it. Yeah, I think it's great. And there, of course, was that moment when I saw the TikTok and I was like, oh, my God. Like, we have exclusive press lined up.
[30:10]
C
Right?
[30:11]
D
You know, we've been working on this launch for a really long time. So of course we have, like, this really beautiful communication and marketing strategy that. That we've been working on, and this just totally disrupts it. But then how.
[30:24]
B
How do you. How do you essentially do a 180 and say, okay, well, so one user.
[30:30]
D
Was green screening this super viral TikTok and was being was so thoughtful about it. And we've actually worked with her before and she was kind of, you know, talking about, well, like, I wonder what if it's going to be like this? Or I wonder if it's going to be like that. And the comments were so interesting. I read every single comment. And so we reached out and I said, can I get on a zoom with you? So I'm going to talk to her on Friday and just me and her and I'm going to like tell her all about the product and what makes it so special and see what happens. I mean, that's what I'm saying. Like, it disrupts everything.
[31:00]
C
Isn't that, like, it's not a bad.
[31:02]
D
Thing, but isn't that kind of fun and cool? You guys, like, those of us who came from print, like, it's such a different world and I'm like, power to the people.
[31:11]
B
I mean, it's amazing. But like, on our end, I would be so pissed. I would be pissed, like whoever has the exclusive. Yeah, yeah. I'd be like, like these. But you're like, what can you do?
[31:20]
D
What can you do?
[31:21]
C
And it's honestly great. It builds up so much excitement for products that it's deserving of it.
[31:26]
B
A little press moment without. Actually, you don't have any press.
[31:29]
C
You didn't pay a dime.
[31:31]
D
I mean, we, we did reach out though and ask them to take it off. I mean, yeah, you're like, can you bought it? They were able to buy it.
[31:37]
B
No.
[31:38]
D
Yes.
[31:38]
C
Wow, that floor manager is so.
[31:41]
B
Everyone's freaking out.
[31:42]
D
We haven't even sent out PR packages yet.
[31:45]
B
Everyone's like, how did this happen?
[31:46]
C
It's literally that girl and us.
[31:48]
B
Yeah.
[31:49]
C
Okay, so this comes out the 26th, December 26th. Now you have shared some fun info with us about like launching a product on the 26th and why it's like such a good idea.
[32:01]
D
Oh my gosh. I can't believe we talked about that. I mean, for us, we just discovered that it's like a major, major time for us. It's right after Christmas. So people have received their Sephora gift cards. No one has school or work, so they're shopping, they have more time to shop. People return the things that they didn't want and immediately buy what they do want. So having newness at that time is amazing. And because we are so skincare minded in our formulations, January is a major month for us.
[32:32]
B
That is so interesting to me. Yeah. When you told us this, I'm like the 26. Because we get pitched A lot of things. Like, hey, we have this brand launch. Do you guys want to do a seating? Do you want to, like. And we're like, no, babe. Like, we're gonna be on vacation. Y. Ever.
[32:46]
D
I'm in a beach chair.
[32:47]
B
Yeah, right.
[32:48]
D
You will. Meanwhile, we're at work.
[32:51]
B
Exactly. But, I mean, it makes sense. It totally makes sense. Okay.
[32:54]
C
Laney, you launched a substack, or say launched their substack, which I feel like it was one of the first brands to get on the platform, which just makes sense. You know, with your editorial background, why did you decide to join the platform?
[33:09]
D
I mean, I love it. Don't you guys?
[33:10]
C
Yeah.
[33:11]
D
Oh, I do.
[33:11]
B
My main.
[33:12]
D
I love it.
[33:13]
B
Bestseller over here. She is.
[33:16]
D
I love substack. Yeah.
[33:18]
C
And how has that, you know, opened another door for you to connect with your community, really?
[33:23]
D
I didn't come from a marketing background, but I think really great marketers are ones that are like, I'm loving this. Other people are loving this. So let's do it, and let's do it quick, let's do it fast, and let's do it well. And if it doesn't work, we'll move on. So do you guys know Paige? She was at Allure.
[33:42]
B
Yes.
[33:42]
C
Yes.
[33:43]
B
Oh, yes. She's with you guys now.
[33:44]
D
Yeah. So I. I tapped her. So she runs our substack. She's amazing. I would. It's, like, a little funny how close she and I are on it. I'm like, I. You know, as the CEO, I have a lot to do, but I review every single substack. We brainstorm all the topics together. We do a lot with the team members. Like, people are really interested in team say and who we are and what we're up to. And so, like, we just. We're working on a post on everyone's manicure type.
[34:12]
C
What's your manicure type?
[34:14]
D
So I'm a shiny buff girl, but I have one other thing that I do, and it's a dark nail. And that's what I have on today.
[34:21]
B
A shiny buff. I love that.
[34:23]
C
Have you found a lot of success in terms of, you know, your community? Loving to be able to. To read this, you know, BTS behind.
[34:30]
D
The company, because we were so early, we did get, you know, some really nice growth just being early on the platform. And then we've started doing collab posts. We started, like, reaching out to different members. I started the podcast on substack. Do you know that they have that feature?
[34:44]
C
Yes.
[34:44]
B
Yes.
[34:45]
C
I thought with you and Sophie. You just did one.
[34:47]
D
Yeah. I don't have the bandwidth to do a podcast like you guys do, but there are times where I want to have a longer conversation. And so there's no schedule, there's no anything. It just, I'll do a podcast when I have time, and that's really fun. I have my own personal substack because I love storytelling. And so we'll do collab posts together. We're just having a good time on it.
[35:09]
B
Okay. When this episode comes out, we'll have to do a collab with Los Angeles.
[35:13]
D
Oh, yeah.
[35:13]
C
Great.
[35:14]
B
Oh, my God. Amazing. So fun because we embed every episode in it too, so people can go.
[35:18]
D
And watch you guys. There's so many things we could talk about on there. Yes. Oh, my gosh.
[35:21]
B
A lot of fun.
[35:22]
D
We could do all of our tips from being an editorial, like, our top tips from editorial from, like, back in the day.
[35:27]
B
That's going to be a four part.
[35:28]
C
Series, like, except for none of it's relevant anymore, so.
[35:31]
D
I know, but that's, that's what makes it interesting.
[35:34]
C
Yeah, totally.
[35:35]
B
You know what? You're right. Okay. Laney, I really would love to know. I, I, I love talking to you because I feel like you really are thoughtful with every response that you give. And as business women, I, I just want to know, like, has there been a time in your career where you were like, I failed, but I learned something significant from this failure, and it wasn't like, I can't do it.
[36:00]
D
Yes. So many. I mean, I think first, my daughter said something to me the other day and like, it's, it's hard to put yourself in your kids shoes of, like, how they see you. And, and she said, I forget what happened, but something didn't go her way. And I said, and she, she goes, mom, but you never fail. And I was like, babe, I was like, I fail many, many times every day. I was like, what matters is how fast you transition. You know who taught me that? My sister. My sister works at Nike. The number one most important attribute of a successful athlete is their transition time. How fast they can get up after they've fallen down or missed a tennis ball or missed a shot or whatever. I think about that all the time. It doesn't actually matter if you fail. What matters is how fast you can pivot. I've failed a lot in terms of hiring. Like, I've made hires that weren't right hires. I don't, I wouldn't say a lot, but I've, I've, there's been a couple times where I've hired people that weren't right, which was hard because, as I mentioned, like, most people are still with me. I learned a lot from that. I think the thing that I keep learning over and over again is that my instincts are right.
[37:11]
B
I love that.
[37:11]
C
That's amazing.
[37:12]
B
I love when you're like, yeah, I actually knew better.
[37:17]
D
I knew all along.
[37:18]
B
Yeah, right?
[37:19]
D
Yeah.
[37:19]
B
Yeah. Lainey, before we let you go, I want to know our beauty editor, girl at heart. What do you think is going to be big in 2026 without giving away your secrets?
[37:33]
D
Probably Taylor Swift's wedding makeup look is going to be really big. I think people are going to be really looking at that moment in terms of, like, what she wears. I think people are going to be doing their more of their own thing. Have you guys been feeling, like, a lot of sameness? And I've been seeing a shift away from all the sameness of people buying a lot of vintage, of people being more creative in any way, but that, like, that is having now more value than the sameness that was. Had been happening.
[38:03]
B
Yeah, totally.
[38:05]
C
Celebrating our.
[38:06]
B
I know.
[38:06]
D
Those are two very different answers.
[38:08]
C
No, we're. We're watching you, Taylor Swift.
[38:10]
B
Yes, we are. Lainey, thank you for coming back, doing round two with us.
[38:15]
D
Oh, my gosh. Should we just keep doing? Can I just be a comeback?
[38:21]
C
We'd love for you to be a contributor. Yes.
[38:23]
B
And then everyone can find us when we do our substack collab. Yeah, that'll be a lot of fun. We're definitely going to figure that out.
[38:28]
D
Done. Yes.
[38:40]
B
So good, so good, so good.
[38:42]
C
Score. Holiday gifts. Everyone wants for way less at your Nordstrom Rack store. Save on Ugg, Nike, Rag and Bone.
[38:50]
D
Vince Frame, Kurt Geiger, London, and more. Because there's always something new.
[38:54]
C
I'm giving all the gifts this year.
[38:56]
D
With that extra 5% off when I.
[38:58]
C
Use my Nordstrom credit card. Santa who join the Nordy Club at Nordstrom Rack to unlock our best deals. It's easy. Big gifts, big perks.
[39:08]
D
That's why you rack.