Kirby (1:24)

Get your home holiday ready @macy's or macy's.com.

Sarah Creel (1:40)

Los Angeles.

Kirby (1:42)

Hi, Kirby.

Sarah Creel (1:44)

Hi, Sarah.

Kirby (1:45)

Welcome to Los Angeles.

Host 2 (1:51)

All right, we are so thrilled to have a beauty industry veteran, a brand builder, and founder herself. Sarah Creel is on Los Angeles today. Welcome.

Host 1 (2:05)

It's been a long time coming.

Sarah Creel (2:07)

Yes, yes, yes. I've wanted to do this, and I'm so happy we got to get it together, and I could do it on this trip. So thank you.

Host 1 (2:13)

You heard us talk about her brand, Sarah Creel, on this podcast, and not only how much we love the packaging, which has won design awards. One of the biggest design awards you can get, right?

Sarah Creel (2:26)

Yes. Which one? The Penta Awards.

Kirby (2:28)

Wow.

Host 1 (2:28)

Incredible. And I'd love to ask you a little bit more about the design, but also just how beautifully formulated these products are and also who they're formulated, who they're formulated for. You know, in a world where everybody's trying to get the eyeballs of Gen Z and specifically now Gen Alpha. And then I heard somebody mention Gen Beta. Did you see that article this week that was like, the beauty industry gunning for Gen Beta. I'm like, are they four? Are they four?

Sarah Creel (2:53)

No, there's diaper cream.

Host 1 (2:55)

No, literally, Gen Beta is like.

Host 2 (2:57)

Like, Kate is Gen Beta. He's only two and a half.

Host 1 (2:59)

Yeah. I don't know what people are thinking. But the good news is Sarah Creel is not gunning for Gen Beta. Hallelujah.

Host 2 (3:06)

We're so grateful for that.

Host 1 (3:07)

She's focused on women 40 plus. And when we. You weren't at the brunch, Sarah, but I went to this beautiful brunch. Was it earlier this year? Was it last year? I can't remember.

Sarah Creel (3:16)

Yes, it was last year.

Host 1 (3:17)

Oh, my God. Already?

Sarah Creel (3:18)

Yes.

Host 1 (3:19)

So it's almost been a year since we've seen each other. But you said something at this launch that I was really excited about, and it's that you do not use models that are under 40 in any of your marketing. Everybody is 40 plus.

Sarah Creel (3:30)

That's right.

Host 1 (3:30)

That's incredible.

Sarah Creel (3:31)

It's necessary. And I also put it on the package that this brand is for Babes 40 Plus. And I'm like, you know, babes is a mental state, you know, so it really can be. Men can love makeup, whatever it is, for people who are 40 plus. And I put it on the package to keep not only myself honest, but anybody that should come into the brand, like, in terms of investors or anything like that. I didn't want any pressure to become a brand that was for everyone because I feel like this particular segment has been so underserved, and it's really my mission to. To serve them.

Host 2 (4:13)

When you were speaking to investors or, you know, telling people about the brand early on, did you get any pushback from people when you said that this is only for babes over 40, 40.

Sarah Creel (4:24)

I mean, do you consider no pushback?

Host 1 (4:27)

They're like, absolutely not. We're done.

Sarah Creel (4:28)

They're like, you know, I had three meetings in one week with institutional investors who said to me, I just don't think that older women really want to look at other older women. And that was early on, early days. And I hadn't built anything. I really didn't have anything to show them. And I still thought that my track record was going to be strong enough that I was going to be able to get funding. So that was a little bit of an eye opener for me on many fronts. I couldn't believe that this is really. I mean, this was in 2023. This was two years ago. Like, that's still where the investment side of the industry was. And so I ended up doing. I put my own money in. I went to friends and family, so really bootstrapped it.

Kirby (5:20)

Was it men and women?

Sarah Creel (5:22)

No, it was only men.

Kirby (5:23)

Yep. Okay.

Sarah Creel (5:24)

It was. It was only men. And you know, every time I tell that story, like, people are probably like, oh, she's like a man hater. I'm not. I love men. I think they're great. But you know, I was thinking today, do you think that people who run the automotive industry don't know anything about cars? You know, do you think that people who are running healthcare businesses don't know anything about health? I don't know. But it strikes me as odd that especially in major strategics, the people running these businesses are men and the people so many of the investors that are running investment in beauty are men. It's odd.

Host 1 (6:05)

Wild. It is. We could probably have a whole separate episode talking about why that is. But we want to get into your top five favorite beauty products of all time.

Sarah Creel (6:17)

Okay.

Host 1 (6:18)

Because I know you have, you could probably list 20.

Sarah Creel (6:21)

I have so many.

Host 1 (6:22)

But if you had to par it back to the top five.

Sarah Creel (6:25)

Yeah. Yeah.

Host 1 (6:26)

Which would they be?

Sarah Creel (6:27)

Okay. I'm a product developer. I've been a product developer for 30 years. So this sounds kind of self serving, but I do, I'm gonna name my own products.

Kirby (6:35)

Love that. I love that.

Host 2 (6:36)

Go for it.

Sarah Creel (6:37)

Because, you know, this is where I think I really changed a lot of what was happening in beauty kind of along the way. So the first one I would name would be Magic from Prescriptives.

Host 1 (6:51)

RIP uh huh. Bring it back, man.

Sarah Creel (6:54)

I know, right?

Host 1 (6:55)

God, I miss Prescriptives so much.

Sarah Creel (6:57)

I mean, Prescriptives was so, so amazing.

Host 1 (6:59)

Yes.

Host 2 (7:00)

I can picture the packaging.

Host 1 (7:03)

That was luxury to me.

Host 2 (7:05)

It was luxury and yeah, it was very cool.

Sarah Creel (7:07)

Yeah, it was cool and it was luxury. I know. I mean, I think I'm channeling a little bit of that with Sarah Creel Beauty. You know, it's just 25 years later. Yeah. But yeah, in 1996, I went to my boss and I showed her this little tiny jar of paint. It was white paint. And I said to her, I go, okay, what if you put this on your face and it made you look better to you? And it made you look better to me? And she was like, okay. She's like, what is it? And I'm like, I don't know. She's like, is it a moisturizer? And I'm like, no. She's like, is it a foundation? I'm like, no. It's like we were playing a game, you know, what is it? I'm like, no. And she's like, okay, all right. She Goes, what I'm going to do is I'm going to connect you with Andy Bavacqua, who is the head of all new material innovation at Estee Lauder. And you talk to him about this and you see if you can come up with something. So see if there's like a raw material that he's working on that would make sense. So I went, had this meeting, and Andy was like, okay, so describe this to me again. And I'm like, all right, Andy, it's like a cloaking device for your face. All right, that's the best I can describe it. I'm like, I don't know how we're gonna get there, but I don't want it to impart any actual color. It's just going to be something that makes your skin look better. And he's like, okay, I have this raw material. He goes, it's a five sided mirrored particle. And I think if we incorporate this into a lotion base and you put it on, there's a chance that it might trick your eye into blurring and just seeing perfection where perfection doesn't exist. And I was like, let's give it a go. And that, after many, many, many submissions, became magic. But that was the essence of it. And nobody had ever done any kind of optical diffusing anything at that point. It was a first. It's kind.

Host 1 (9:17)

For those listeners who may not be familiar with magic, what would you describe it as now?

Sarah Creel (9:22)

I mean, I would say it was a skin perfecting optical blurring lotion.

Host 1 (9:28)

Okay, so not a primer, but.

Sarah Creel (9:31)

No. Okay. No, it was not a primer, even though you could, of course, use it under foundation, which was an imperative, because primer prescriptives at the time, about 45% of its business was foundation. It was really known for all its undertones and Red, orange, yellow, orange, red, blue, red. Yes.

Host 2 (9:49)

Do you remember how much it was sold for at the time?

Sarah Creel (9:51)

Oh, I like the cost of the product or. No, just what it did. Yeah. What? It retailed 25 million is what that ended up doing.

Host 2 (9:59)

Oh, my gosh.

Kirby (10:00)

Okay.

Host 2 (10:00)

Well, I was just looking it up, and someone selling one on ebay for almost $300.

Sarah Creel (10:05)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was. It's unusable at this point.

Kirby (10:08)

Yes.

Sarah Creel (10:08)

I would not buy that. I would not buy that on you.

Host 1 (10:11)

I would not put that on my face.

Sarah Creel (10:13)

You know, but it started. It started this whole, you know, just a whole new segment of the business.

Host 2 (10:19)

Incredible.

Sarah Creel (10:19)

That had never existed.

Host 1 (10:21)

So, okay, there's magic.

Sarah Creel (10:22)

So there's magic. Also At Prescriptives. I had a boss at Prescriptives who was so. Her name's Ann Carullo, and she was genius in her own right, but she was also a mentor to me. And James Gager was the creative director who then went on to make Mac creatively what Mac became. And those two people just believed in me so much and gave me such freedom that I was able to really blossom. And so the next thing I came to them with was I was like, okay, I've been at Blix, which is an art store. Yes. Okay. And I think that there's a chance that if you actually use a paintbrush with foundation, that you might get a smoother application than if you used your fingers. And they were like, okay. And I'm like, so I'd like to create a foundation brush. And they were like, all right, what does it look like? And so I whip out this brush that I bought at Blick's, and I had cut it myself. It was a square brush, but I had cut it in the shape of, like, a paddle. And I showed them on my face what it did. And so I launched that. And, yeah, we launched that as a brand.

Host 2 (11:39)

Iconic.

Host 1 (11:40)

Yes.

Sarah Creel (11:41)

That was. That was pretty awesome.

Host 1 (11:42)

And many more that were duplicated after this.

Sarah Creel (11:46)

That's right. That's right. They shall remain nameless. But, yes, it happened very fast. But that was the first foundation brush. You know, then I went on years later, and I did the Tom Ford line. Right. And again, Annie was now the head of Estee Lauder Product Development Worldwide. And I was taking what I considered a hiatus after having my second baby. And I didn't really. I was at Bobby Brown, and I had resigned from Bobby Brown because I was the head of product development and marketing there, and. And it was just too big a job. I had a baby, newborn and a two year old, and I was like, I can't. We're in 168 countries, and, like, I cannot do this job and be a mom. So I resigned. And Estee Lauder, in those days was such a family company that they called me back and they were like, how about you don't actually resign? We'll just kind of keep you on the books. And if you really just want to be a mom, you kind of stay on the books. And if you want to go somewhere, you tell us. And if this no longer works for us, we'll tell you. But maybe in the meantime, some kind of project will come along. And I was like, all right, cool. Sounds great. Thank you. So I just Went on my business, being a mom. And about six months later, Annie calls me, and she's like, I have the most unbelievable project on my desk, and I would love if I could get to it, but the reality is I can't. And she's like, I think you would be the perfect person to do this. I'm like, okay, hit me. What is it? She's like, it's Tom Ford. Do you want to do a beauty line for Tom Ford? I'm like, yes, I do. So, you know, I think one of my strengths in product development all this time has been able. Being able to meet a person and understand what their DNA is, enough so I could create products that would be reflective and authentic to who they were. And so when given this assignment, I thought, okay, so who is Tom Ford? Well, he obviously is an arbiter of taste. He is a visionary. He is, you know, somewhat voyeuristic in a way. He was making movies, and really, he is sort of the male gaze, looking at women and determining what is beautiful. And so I went to the very basic understanding of what does make traditional beauty in our society. And it's symmetry. Symmetry of the face is generally, if you take all of the supermodels for the last 20 years and you put them face first and you do a graph, you will see that their faces are incredibly symmetrical.

Host 1 (14:38)

Right.

Sarah Creel (14:38)

So that became kind of my premise and architecture of the face became the foundation of that brand. So in there, I created a product called Shade and Illuminate.

Kirby (14:50)

Yes.

Sarah Creel (14:50)

And that was really way before anybody was contouring or doing anything along those lines. And so I came up with all of the formulations and the concepts for the products.

Kirby (15:04)

And.

Sarah Creel (15:05)

And then Charlotte Tilbury, before she had her brand, did all of the paletteing. So we worked together to do that, with Annie being sort of the overseer of all of the creativity.

Kirby (15:17)

Wow.

Host 1 (15:18)

Amazing.

Sarah Creel (15:19)

Yeah. So that product I'm really proud of, and I still see that pop up in a lot of situations. Yeah.

Host 2 (15:25)

Yeah.

Host 1 (15:26)

That's incredible. Okay, so that's three, right? Prescriptive.

Sarah Creel (15:28)

Yeah.

Host 1 (15:29)

I was, like, counting. We're on three. Okay.

Host 2 (15:31)

With the foundation brush and get in illuminate.

Sarah Creel (15:33)

This is all so hard.

Host 1 (15:34)

But.

Host 2 (15:36)

But every product has a story that is just, like, so. So good.

Sarah Creel (15:39)

Yeah. So. So then I would say that one of my favorite products to develop was when I was with Victoria at Victoria Beckham and doing skincare. And, you know, I had learned a lot at that time by that time. And for a designer to win in skincare is incredibly challenging. You can imagine, I mean, the credibility is just not there. So for Victoria, I said, you know, we need somebody to partner with who is serious business. And so I think that the cell rejuvenating priming moisturizer that I created there with Augustinus Bader is so good. That's just a great product. And, and that was great because it delivered a lot of what magic had done, but it had an efficacy and a potency that Augustin espader and his TFC8 brought. And I was so thrilled because I was able to bring what was, you know, one company with another company together and do it was really the first collaboration of its kind. Now you see it all the time, but at the time people were like, what? Yeah, what is happening?

Host 2 (17:00)

But you're right, it did give her some credibility.

Sarah Creel (17:03)

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Host 2 (17:04)

I remember that lunch.

Sarah Creel (17:05)

Yeah.

Host 2 (17:05)

That was really beautiful product.

Sarah Creel (17:07)

Yeah. And then the last, I'm going to give a shout out to my own brand and to actually something that I have just recently launched that I'm super proud of, which is Eyes up, our new creamy Kajal longwear liner. And we've just launched it in six shades. It's already sold out on my own site to two of the shades are sold out. It is selling so fast@sephora, sephora.com, it's flying because I believe it's just a better mousetrap. It really is. It's taken me two years to develop this formula. I wanted it to be waterproof, transfer proof, does not transfer onto your hoods of your eyes, doesn't smudge, doesn't smear, all of these things, but is also for sensitive eyes. So I tested this on only women 40 to 65 and only women who have sensitive eyes. And that is like just self inflicted pain, frankly. It's just, I just made the bar higher for myself. I didn't know how it was gonna test. I thought because I put ceramides in it and allantoin, which is a really soothing ingredient, I was going to get this 100% safe for sensitive eyes claim. But you know, it's a crapshoot when you are clinically testing. You have finished the formula and now you are just testing. But that formula took me two years and at the 18 month mark the laboratory that I was working with said to me, listen, we have put in all of the R and D we are going to into this formula. You have a waterproof claim. We know you do. You've got transfer proof, you've got 24 hour wear, you've Got this. You've got. I'm like, no, you don't. You think you do. I don't think you do. I'm like, we have to keep going. Like, we're not going to keep going without a business case.

Host 1 (19:04)

What does that mean?

Sarah Creel (19:05)

Yeah, that means that you are too small a brand. We are spending a lot of money because we are paying our chemists to. To keep giving you submissions and our feeling. And our R and D has said to us, she has it. And, you know, frankly, this is one of the benefits of being 55. If somebody had said this to me when I was 35, I would have said, probably, okay, you're right. But being 55, I didn't. And so I did give them a business case of a rough estimate of another formula that I had created with them. And I knew relatively loosely what the business had been done by that formula. And I said, I'm creating something that is going to do huge volumes, and you really need to partner with me and keep going. And if you don't, I will just tell you that for the rest of my product development career, our relationship will be very different. And I just left it at that. And they thought about it, and they decided they, too, wanted to keep going. So we kept going for six months. Well, it just wasn't working. It was like I said to them, I'm like, the polymer is too strong now. Yes, it goes on great, but as you're wearing it, I'm like, it's chipping off because the polymer, over time, is drying and. And, you know, these are all things that make a big difference in a woman's experience of wearing an eyeliner, especially one that is a kajal, which means that it can be worn on the waterline. So, anyway, long story short is. Or long story long, is that two years later, we have the formula, we got it, and I tested it in the way that I wanted to test it, and it killed it. I mean, the clinicals and the consumer perception have been unbelievable. And now the sales are proving it out.

Host 1 (21:11)

And it's called Eyes Up.

Sarah Creel (21:13)

Eyes Up.

Host 1 (21:13)

So cute.

Sarah Creel (21:14)

Because, you know, we always need to have a little sense of humor.

Host 1 (21:16)

Yes, I agree.

Host 2 (21:18)

I mean, it's really beautiful. We just got to play with it today.

Sarah Creel (21:21)

Wait until you live with it.

Host 2 (21:23)

I can't wait. I can't wait to put on my eyes.

Sarah Creel (21:24)

Wait until you live with it. Because it's really, really hard to get an eyeliner that actually you can apply and is creamy and is a pleasure to use, that you can blend it gives you 30 seconds. You blend it, you make it what you want. You can smudge it. You can use it as an eyeshadow, and then it won't crease, it won't transfer. It stays where it is.

Kirby (21:45)

I like that.

Host 2 (21:46)

There's a brush on the other end.

Sarah Creel (21:47)

Yes. Which is meant to blend. It's for blending, it's for smudging, but it's also fabulous to pull out a wing.

Kirby (21:54)

Amazing glams. You know how much Kirby and I love Tatcha and the founder, Vicky Sylvie, if you haven't heard our interviews with her, do that after this. On the show, she's shared how Tatcha is all about building tiny rituals that restore joy, which is very much needed.

Host 2 (22:11)

In the year that is 2025.

Kirby (22:13)

The dewy skin cream is that feeling in a jar. It's a luxuriously comforting moisturizer that plumps fine lines and seals in moisture for Tatcha's signature dewy glow. Fun fact. It is the brand's bestseller. A dewy skin cream is sold every 30 seconds. In a clinical study, 100% of the panelists showed immediate improvement in plumpness, suppleness, and radiance in just two weeks. It is transformative Japanese skincare that nurtures the skin and the mind, and it's why we love it so, so much. The best part is you can enjoy 15% off your first purchase@tatcha.com with code Los Angeles 15.

Host 1 (22:56)

Okay, Sarah, so you mentioned that you worked with so many incredible industry icons, and clearly they would not have worked with you had you not been one yourself. Bobbi Brown, back in her heyday. Tom Ford. Do you have a word for Tom Ford, by the way? Like, do you do when you think of precise. Virgo. He's a Virgo.

Sarah Creel (23:16)

Yeah.

Kirby (23:16)

Yeah.

Host 1 (23:17)

Makes sense. I loved Prada beauty.

Sarah Creel (23:20)

Yeah, mucha.

Host 1 (23:21)

Hello.

Sarah Creel (23:22)

Amazing. I mean, the original Prada beauty. For anybody listening to the original.

Host 1 (23:26)

Original, yeah.

Sarah Creel (23:27)

Which, you know, goes way back, because that happened in 1998. That I did that, and that was my first startup. It was seven of us, and it was so exciting. This was next level and really led to my first divorce. It was really, you know, I went from living and working in New York and working on Prescriptives to still working in New York. That's where Prada beauty was located. But Miuccia herself wanted laboratories from all over the world, and we were going to launch 21 formulas. She wanted one laboratory to be in Japan. She wanted one to be in. Particularly in Zurich. She wanted one to be in the United States. And so I was flying all over the place. Our turnkey operation, which meant all of the bulk that I created at those different laboratories was sent to Baden Baden, Germany, where we filled everything under argon gas, which is heavier than regular air. So everything went through a tunnel where argon gas, okay, was injected into this tunnel, which is heavier, would push out all of the oxygen so that we could then seal it with aluminum. Okay, aluminum foil. It was all done in this kind of pharmaceutical way because none of the formulations had preservatives in them. It was so ahead of its time. It was, you know, everything was unit dose sealed like this. And, I mean, mio Prada was a dream to work for because she just had such vision and passion for skin care. It was incredible and incredible taste. And, I mean, I could tell you some stories. There were some moments trying to get the Italians with the Americans, with the Japanese in one room, them explaining what their technology was and having translators on the side behind a wall of glass, us all wearing headsets so that there was. There was simultaneous translation happening. While the head of the lab is explaining this technology to Mucha, she's getting it in Italian. I'm getting it in English, and he is having basically a complete panic attack.

Host 1 (25:51)

Yeah, I'm sure.

Sarah Creel (25:52)

Wow.

Host 2 (25:54)

I would love to see your, like, own beauty collection. You must have just, like, this museum at home.

Sarah Creel (25:59)

I do. I do.

Host 1 (26:00)

Take some pictures, please.

Sarah Creel (26:02)

I would love to never photograph it. I never photograph it. I never do, because why? You know, I feel like it's my own private collection in a way. And it's things that I still refer back to. I look at. I think, oh, how would I do this if I were to do it again in 2025? I mean, my feeling about product development has been actually remarkably consistent, which is women are at the forefront of what I do. You know, that's what I. I have two sisters, I have a mother, I have a stepmother. I have tons of girlfriends, and I'm really interested in creating products that she doesn't even know she needs. She doesn't even know she wants. She tries them, and that's it. She's like, oh, my God, where has this been all my life? Yeah.

Host 1 (26:54)

You know, what did you study in school?

Sarah Creel (26:56)

British literature.

Host 1 (26:58)

Okay. That is bonkers to me, because just hearing you, I mean, I feel Sara likely feels the same way, but hearing you talk about formulas and product development is vastly different than a lot of people that have come on this.

Host 2 (27:12)

You're like a scientist.

Host 1 (27:13)

Yes. I was thinking, you Studied cosmetic chemistry?

Sarah Creel (27:17)

No.

Host 2 (27:17)

You're a doctor?

Sarah Creel (27:19)

No, no, no. I actually. So I knew from a very young age, from the time I was about 13, that I was going to get into beauty. And. And my father was an architect, and I lived in this small town in northwestern Pennsylvania. That's where I'm from. And he would go into his office on Saturdays and I had absolutely nothing to do. Okay, time to kill. I lived in the Allegheny National Forest. Okay. And I would go into this five and dime and look at the mascaras. And one day When I was 13, I was looking at all of these mascaras that I had tried because I loved beauty. And I read all the ingredients and I realized they were identical. And I was like, so the difference has to be the brush. I was like, somebody has to pick the brush. I was like, I want that job.

Host 2 (28:10)

Wow.

Sarah Creel (28:10)

I want that job. And then it took me another 10 years to figure out what that job was.

Host 1 (28:16)

Right.

Sarah Creel (28:16)

But my career is really so much about the kindness of people who taught me. And that's how I made the leap from studying literature, which really, again, my father had so much to do with because he said to me, he was like, sarah, you're going to be able to learn marketing, which is what I thought I wanted to do in the world. You're never going to have four years of being able to read and write these great works of literature that you love with people for whom this is their full time passion. The rest you're gonna be able to figure out. And he said, and besides, you're going to a great school, you've got a great gpa and you're gonna graduate and you're gonna be able to get a job in beauty, no problem. He really was a bit of a snob, I think. And he was also completely wrong. Yeah, completely wrong, totally. So I graduated in 1991, and I wrote and sent cover letters and resumes to every beauty company I could think of on the planet. And, you know, this was. This was 1991 when I graduated. And the only bite that I got was from Clinique.

Host 1 (29:30)

And why was that? What did they see in you despite the fact you had no experience in beauty whatsoever?

Sarah Creel (29:37)

Well, Clinique was really hot in 1991, and they recruited only college graduates and frankly, really high level college graduates to staff Bergdorf Goodman. And they did this for a number of reasons. One being it was directly across from headquarters. So the drop in from all of the top executives at the GM building was all the time. And they had an extremely sophisticated Clientele at Bergdorf Goodman, like the people who were coming in to buy Clinique in 1991 at Bergdorf Goodman had their own dermatologists, right? So they needed a very high caliber of salesforce there. So that's why I think I got the bite there. And then I had to take a train from Buffalo, New York into New York, New York. And that's like a six hour train ride.

Host 1 (30:37)

Oh, my gosh.

Sarah Creel (30:38)

To go to this interview. And, you know, I didn't know what the job really was. And then she told me that it was to be at the counter. And I was like, oh my God. I could hear my dad's voice. And I was like, he's gonna kill me. You know, he's just spent a lot of money educating me at this university for four years. And I'm like, I'll take it. And I took that job, got back on the train, came back into New York two weeks later, found an apartment and started that job the next Monday.

Host 2 (31:11)

Do you remember what the most popular product was during your time at the counter?

Sarah Creel (31:16)

Turnaround Cream. Turnaround Cream. And Turnaround Cream was actually, that was a. The first BHA versus aha. And Clinique pioneered it. And so it was an acid, but since it was a beta hydroxy acid, it was more gentle to the skin and worked on sensitive skins. And it was in this beautiful moisturizing base. So you had all of the benefits of the exfoliation with this incredible hydration and smoothing and plumping effect. So it, I mean, it was gangbusters. It flew. But that product ended up being the thing that allowed me to get my first job in product development, even though I was completely under qualified for that position. My first product development job, I ended up responding to a blind ad in the New York Times, which I still remember what it said, which was, large cosmetic company seeks product developer with one to three years experience and like PO Box, blah, blah, blah, send resumes here. And I was like, Okay, I have 0.0 experience in product development. But I wrote and you know, for anybody listening, sometimes just you really have to think outside of the box and outside of the rules. So I wrote a completely inappropriate cover letter where I talked about how alpha hydroxy acids and beta hydroxy acids were, were going to go into makeup, which they had not yet, and be a huge trend because the baby boomer generation was getting old enough that they were going to need skincare in their makeup. And I still have that letter as well. And it's enough, you know, it was enough in that moment to get me an interview, even though I didn't have any experience. And I ended up getting that job.

Host 1 (33:10)

Okay.

Sarah Creel (33:10)

And then that was the last job I ever applied for. Wow.

Host 1 (33:13)

Okay. First of all, that's such a flex, by the way. Also, I love it so much because you really do. I love that you shared that, because I think there's a lot of people listening that have zero experience in beauty. And to this day, they're still.

Kirby (33:27)

Yeah.

Host 1 (33:27)

We get emails, text dms. I'm looking to get into beauty. I don't have any experience. What. What should I do? I don't feel like I'm qualified. And it's really. It can. It can also miss. Like, you're hit, but sometimes it can miss as well. But you're hit.

Host 2 (33:42)

Yeah.

Sarah Creel (33:43)

Everything can miss, but you don't know until you try.

Kirby (33:45)

Right.

Sarah Creel (33:46)

If you don't take the shot, you will never know. And that's one thing. And the second thing is, you know, listen, I graduated from an Ivy League school. Right. Like, there's a lot of humble pie involved in reaching. It has for me, anyway, in reaching my dreams. And I started there, and now here I am. Yes, it's taken some time. I'm 55, but I have my own brand. And now I'm calling the shots. I'm doing it the way exactly how I want to. So I would say to anyone who has a dream about doing anything, first of all, do your homework. Just do your homework and make sure that somebody else isn't already doing it really well. It's okay if somebody's doing it and they're not doing it that well. It's okay to then do it. But check that and then just start. Just start.

Host 1 (34:41)

Yes. Okay.

Sarah Creel (34:43)

Love that clip.

Host 1 (34:44)

That clip.

Sarah Creel (34:44)

That.

Kirby (34:45)

That's.

Sarah Creel (34:45)

That's.

Host 1 (34:45)

That's it. Okay, so we went through all of the brands that you've worked for. Victoria and Beckham Beauty. You mentioned this. What was it like working on that brand?

Sarah Creel (34:55)

It was so fun, to be honest.

Host 1 (34:58)

She's Posh Spice to us. Okay. Like, I know that she's like, a very respected designer. She's gotten rid of that title, but if she walked into this room right now, I would make her do a TikTok with me singing to always be there or something. She wouldn't kill me. And she would want her good side. But, like, that's Posh Spice to me.

Sarah Creel (35:15)

Yes. Yes. Well. And you've actually read her quite right in the fact that she would do that.

Host 1 (35:22)

Yeah.

Sarah Creel (35:23)

You know, and a lot of people really, of her caliber in terms of fame, maybe, wouldn't, you know? But she is down for it. She is there. She has an ability, and I've obviously worked with and for a lot of big names, and she has an ability to set people at ease. That is God given, I think. You know, and I think she makes an effort at it, don't get me wrong. But she just has this ability to really put people at ease. And so, I mean, I just have so many fun and fond memories of working with her. But one of them was when I first met her. I went to her house in the Hollywood Hills, and she had 15 years worth of products laid out on her dining room table that she had saved. And this is how passionate she was about beauty. I had no idea what I was going to encounter on the other side of that door. And I was there with the creative director of Estee Lauder at the time, Richard Ferretti. And the only reason we even knew we were at the right house was because the welcome mat, what you and I would call a welcome mat, was like a carpet the size of, like, my living room carpet with a huge B on it.

Host 2 (36:47)

You're like, we're at the right place.

Sarah Creel (36:48)

We're like, okay, at least now we.

Host 1 (36:50)

Made it in the right spot.

Sarah Creel (36:51)

Yeah, but, you know, so it was intimidating, right? And then we walked in and she was just so welcoming and casual, and the kids were all running around, and she was so prepared. And I thought to myself at the time, this is someone I can work with, because I wanted someone who would work as hard as I would work. And that had not always been the case. I had many instances where it wasn't. And so immediately I bonded with her over that. And I was really impressed with her level of preparation. And also, you know, what did she like about this product? What did she not? So, you know, she was just really well versed in her preference, and I knew I could deliver on a vision that she and I would create together.

Host 1 (37:44)

You had been in product formulation, and this was your first time co founding a brand?

Sarah Creel (37:49)

Well, this was actually doing the capsule collections at Estee Lauder. So that's how we started. We did two capsule collections at Estee Lauder for Estee Lauder, and then we decided to go out on our own.

Host 1 (38:04)

Okay, got it. But what did you learn as that experience of being a co founder?

Sarah Creel (38:09)

I mean, that was my first time ever starting a company from a white piece of paper. And, you know, I really. It was really helpful. There were investors there at Victoria Beckham who Actually really helped me go from a big beauty mindset to much more of a startup mindset. I'd had my experience at Prada Beauty, but I was not the gm. You know, Jill Scalamandre was the GM on that business and is a. Is an icon in the industry. And, you know, so I didn't have that responsibility. This was the first time that I had the responsibility of starting something working with Victoria. But she was also highly respectful of what I was bringing, and so I respected her for her passion and her taste, and she respected me for my technical ability and know how and ability to execute. So we really complimented each other very well. And we also shared so many funny, funny times and just great senses of humor, you know, together, that we would love to go out on like a PR tour together and just, just let it rip. It was just so fun.

Host 2 (39:28)

So I think, like a major common denominator here with all of the brands that you've worked on is this beautiful, refined aesthetic, including Cerecril. I mean, as you said, you know, you've won awards for the packaging. It's luxury. How would you define luxury today? Luxury.

Host 1 (39:46)

Beauty.

Sarah Creel (39:47)

I would say luxury beauty, to me today has to do with. It has to be products that are incredibly efficacious because time is the number one luxury. So things have to work well. They have to work fast, they have to feel good. It has to have a sensorial surprise, and it has to have an elegance that even someone who is not well versed in beauty, they might not be able to put words to it, but they know it when they feel it. And for me also, luxury now really needs to be surprising. There needs to be an element of surprise. Do not give me something that is like, you know, 2010 wants its heavy jar back.

Host 1 (40:38)

Yeah.

Sarah Creel (40:40)

It cannot be. It is not where we are, you know, as a culture. We are on the move. Things need to be easy to use, travel friendly, you know, and at the same time feel luxurious in your hand when you pick it up. From the moment you pick it up to the minute that you put that product on your fingertips or on your face, that feeling is luxurious in a sensorial way. And then the look of it is so sophisticated because the work in the formula has been done for you.

Host 1 (41:16)

What is the product in your line that you feel is the most surprising for people when they use it?

Sarah Creel (41:22)

Moisture source. Yeah, I think nobody saw that coming. And I'm like, you're welcome. No, really, I. I didn't even know what to call that product, to tell you the truth. We ended up calling it an essence, but it's really a liquid moisturizer. And the whole premise behind that product is the fact that, you know, after coming up with this idea for Sarah Creel Beauty and being like, nobody's talking to me. I was 53, and I'm like, no one is formulating for me, educating me, reflecting me back to me. And no one is focused on wear repair and moisturization, which is what, you know, I really need. But then I was thinking, like, I need to test this on other women and make sure that it's not just me feeling this way. So there's something called confirmation bias, where you can. Right. You can ask all your friends, and they're like, yes, absolutely, we're having the same problem. And I'm like, I didn't want to fall into that trap. So I commissioned these data scientists out of Colorado, and I had 18 questions that I could ask 2,000 women about beauty. And so I asked women over the age of 40, luxury beauty shoppers, what did they think of the beauty industry? What were the terms that they liked and they didn't like? Turns out anti aging is fine. Don't you dare say mature skin. And what were their pain points? And so their pain points and their issues were what became the initial seven SKUs that I launched with. And one of their pain points was hydration. Like, I cannot keep it in my skin no matter what I do. And so I was like, that's because what you're doing is not helping. Like, adding a layer of oil onto your skin is not going to solve the problem. Adding just a heavy cream. They look at a cream and they think, well, it's a beautiful heavy cream. This should do it. Formulation wise, it's not accurate because what happens is a cream is brought together. The oil phase and the water phase are brought together using binders. Okay. Binders, as you might imagine, are kind of sticky. They make the oil stick to the water. Those sticky binders can stay on top of the skin and prevent the water from actually penetrating. So what I did was I took the binders out and I created this BI phase liquid moisturizer. So in the water phase, it has everything you need. It has peptides, niacinamide and hyaluronic acid. And then the oil phase is pure squalane of the highest degree purity from olives. And that seals everything in so it penetrates deeply. And that product, one dose, hydrates for 24 hours. And if you use it for four weeks, it increases your baseline hydration by 45%.

Host 1 (44:20)

It's a beautiful product.

Sarah Creel (44:21)

Thank you. I love it. Thank you. But those statistics that I just rattled off, like, go find another product that says that in a moisturizer, it's really hard to achieve. And so I think the biggest surprise for women is when they use it, not only does their skin look glowy and beautiful and soothed and, you know, fresh, but it actually is moisturized. And it's deeply moisturized. And as they use it more and more, they realize, oh, now when I wash my skin, my skin doesn't feel tight and taught and, you know, annoying.

Host 1 (45:00)

Yeah, frankly.

Host 2 (45:02)

Okay, so we're talking about aging. I love the don't you dare call it mature skin, but there we cannot.

Host 1 (45:08)

When she was saying that they were, like, fine with anti aging, I was thinking about how when anti aging became outlawed, so to speak. Right. It was probably a bunch of 20 and 30 year olds making the decision. Exactly.

Sarah Creel (45:21)

Yeah. Yeah.

Host 1 (45:21)

I'm like, unfortunately, we. That's the term. It's not that I don't want to age, but, like, it's just what you call it. Yeah, it's shorthand. Yeah, you're so right. I wish people would just accept it. It's, it's, it's fine.

Host 2 (45:33)

But the conversation, especially in our industry, has just changed so much over the years. It's like, yeah, we banned it. Then we called it pro aging. Can we still say anti aging?

Host 1 (45:43)

But now it's longevity.

Sarah Creel (45:45)

Yes. Right.

Host 2 (45:46)

I mean, there's a hundred synonyms.

Host 1 (45:49)

Want to hurt people.

Sarah Creel (45:51)

Aging gracefully makes me want to actually level people. And I actually got a letter, a little email from a strategic who was interested in being part of the company. And it was a note from a guy, and he was like, I'm just so impressed with how you are teaching women to age gracefully. That pissed me off for three days. It's three days straight. I had to, like, exercise it out. I had to call friends. I was really like, why is this making me so mad? And I finally realized, like, it's just another box. It's just another patriarchal bullshit box to put women in another hurdle for them to jump over. Like, we are going to tell you how you should age. I'm like, no, you are not. No, you are not. You are not gonna tell me, and you are not gonna tell any other woman how to age. And a friend of mine said, she goes, I mean, frankly, I feel like I'm aging. Like, somebody kicked me down the stairs. It's the last thing. It is the furthest thing from being graceful. And I'm like, yeah, nobody should be telling us how to age. And my hope is with this brand new. Yes. I am creating products that I think are efficacious, and I think women will love, and I am here for it. I do stuff that I want to do. I'm using Botox. I have had fillers put in. I have had fillers taken out. I just did a CO2 laser. You might still be able to see some redness from it. You know, I'm doing stuff that I want to do, but it's my choice. And what I am here for is the overall elevation of women and what they want to do. It's their choice. And as long as they're doing what they want to do, I am happy.

Host 1 (47:42)

And notice when they say aging gracefully, it's always for women who look good. Of course, if it's a woman that looks good and who has never done anything, that's great. If it's a woman who has done things and looks good, that's great. But if you don't look good, that is not aging gracefully, and that is fucked up. I'm talking to you people. Yeah, it's fucked up.

Sarah Creel (48:01)

Yes.

Host 1 (48:02)

And I want to age ungracefully, Right?

Sarah Creel (48:07)

Yeah. Right. And it just should be. It just should not. There should not be this level of weighing in on how you're doing, period, as a society. So this is. You know, I'm like, you do you. And this is why I put on my package. I'm like, feel amazing. Enjoy the journey. That's it. That is my wish for myself, and that is my wish for. For every woman. And whatever that means. That's what it means.

Host 2 (48:38)

So you mentioned you have daughters. How old are they?

Host 1 (48:41)

Can I ask?

Sarah Creel (48:42)

16 and 18. Oh, wow.

Host 2 (48:43)

Okay.

Sarah Creel (48:43)

So my eldest just went off to Boston College.

Host 2 (48:46)

Congratulations.

Sarah Creel (48:47)

Thank you.

Host 2 (48:47)

That's so exciting.

Sarah Creel (48:49)

It's so hard. I miss her like crazy.

Host 2 (48:51)

I can't even imagine.

Sarah Creel (48:51)

Yeah.

Host 2 (48:52)

Do you think that they are growing up in a different time where they will be more. Or maybe society will be more open to the changes that, you know, the lines in our skin? Or do you think that they. The way that even they talk about their own beauty? Do you feel like it's different from when you were growing up, from when we were growing up?

Sarah Creel (49:13)

It's dramatically different from when I was growing up. And I'm sure from when you were growing up. I'm not sure. I'm not sure because. And I have this debate with them all the time. I tend to think that there is Sort of an. A very intimate relationship between the amount of clothing that girls this age are wearing and the reduction of women's rights. I think it's intertwined, because as a woman's outer becomes more about her value because she has fewer rights. And so she needs to use her beauty to negotiate her way through the world, Showing what she has can be an advantage. And so I'm not sure the way that we're going right now that it is going to be better for them. I pray that it is. But, you know, we talk about this a lot, and what they assert to me is, you know, mom, it's because I feel confident in wearing this little bit of clothing because I own myself, and this is how I am, and this is the way I feel. And I respect that point of view also.

Host 1 (50:35)

But it's also currency.

Sarah Creel (50:37)

But it is currency. And I said to them, it's currency. And you are playing a game that you perhaps don't fully comprehend what the game is that you are playing, number one. And number two, it's my personal spiritual belief that you are attracting lower energy.

Host 1 (50:54)

Interesting.

Sarah Creel (50:55)

Loved.

Host 2 (50:55)

I would love to be part of that kitchen table conversation.

Sarah Creel (50:58)

Yeah, we have it a lot. So we are being said, though, I never, ever say, don't wear that.

Host 1 (51:06)

Right, right.

Sarah Creel (51:07)

No, yeah.

Host 2 (51:08)

It is their own journey.

Sarah Creel (51:09)

Yes.

Host 1 (51:09)

It's their prerogative, too.

Sarah Creel (51:10)

It is.

Host 1 (51:11)

Listen, I'm saying, like, I like to show some cleavage. I like to, you know, I feel good about myself. But then I also have this duality, and I think all women do, where we're like, I'm doing this because it makes me feel good, but somebody's gonna say, I'm doing it for other reasons. To attract attention from the male gaze or whoever it is.

Host 2 (51:30)

Yeah.

Sarah Creel (51:30)

And there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, we are biological human beings, you know, so that all plays a role. You know, it's just when you ask me the question, like, are we moving in the right direction? I'm just not sure. You know, it doesn't seem to me that women are, as a whole, becoming more powerful.

Host 1 (51:52)

I mean, and that we could talk a lot about that in terms of the state of the world right now. You know, we're going to end on this. I want to know, what are the top pieces of beauty advice you offer your daughters?

Sarah Creel (52:04)

Oh, my God.

Host 2 (52:05)

That's so funny. I was going to ask that.

Sarah Creel (52:06)

I mean, they don't listen, but I can tell you what I tell them.

Host 1 (52:09)

Please, we will.

Sarah Creel (52:10)

I'm like, SPF?

Host 1 (52:12)

Yes.

Sarah Creel (52:13)

I'm like, I just had CO2 laser to get rid of sunspots. And, you know, I didn't have any precancerous growths because I've been really good about wearing sunscreen. But, you know, I'm like, don't be laying in the sun. But you know how this is. You're on top of the beauty industry. There's a whole tanning culture in that age group that is so strong. How tan can we get? I'm like, this is so backwards, girls. I'm like, this is not what you should be doing. I mean, Estee Lauder always said, you have one skin, you are given one skin in this lifetime. Preserve it. And that's what I wish for them. So this is what I say to them. Sunscreen. Sunscreen. Sunscreen. And moisture source. Moisture source. Moisture source. Which they, you know, they do. They do on a daily basis, but then they go radical on, like a tanning session on a vacation. And I'm like, you know, I am like an SPF cop. I'm like, what do you have on your face? What do you have on your chest? What do you have on your limbs?

Host 1 (53:17)

Do you have a favorite SPF for your face?

Sarah Creel (53:19)

Yeah, mine, of course.

Host 1 (53:20)

Oh, duh.

Sarah Creel (53:21)

Yeah. Brilliant Repair shield.

Host 1 (53:22)

It's so beautiful. And it looks like a little sun. And it's meant to look like a little sun.

Sarah Creel (53:26)

Yes, it's meant to look like a little sun. I mean, all of the packaging I created because I remember being a 21 year old and trying to sell products to women who were in their 50s, I wanted the packaging to evoke what the product does. So that's why Moisture Source looks like a tall drink of water. Brilliant repair shield. SPF 50 looks like a little sun. So, you know, all of these things. But overall, I just love that product because it does so much. It's a tint. It gives you hydration. It is giving you an SPF 50 with a 12% zinc oxide. Because I went to the scientist who has this patented and has it this incredible patent on zinc oxide that allows it to have a certain level of clarity while not giving up on the efficacy of the sun blocking.

Host 1 (54:14)

All of your products are beautiful. Really, truly a fan of the concealers. Love the concealers.

Sarah Creel (54:18)

Thank you. Thank you.

Host 1 (54:19)

Faces, stun and vibes. Yes. Amazing. Sarah, thank you for joining us today.

Sarah Creel (54:23)

Thank you so much.

Host 1 (54:24)

We could have listened to three more hours of your.

Host 2 (54:27)

So we have to have that a part two and a part three.

Host 1 (54:29)

Yes, absolutely.

Sarah Creel (54:30)

Incredible pleasure. Thank you.

Host 1 (54:31)

Everyone can find Sarah Creel beauty@Sarah Creel.com or Sarah Creel beauty.com and of course, sephora.com so go check it out.

Sarah Creel (54:39)

And on. Yeah. Sephora.com and in Sephora stores.

Host 1 (54:43)

Amazing.

Sarah Creel (54:43)

And also, if anybody has an issue finding, because we're in 82 of the Sephora stores, they can go on Sarah Creel Beauty.com and there's a store locator.

Host 2 (54:53)

Okay.

Sarah Creel (54:53)

I have put on my site to give, you know, some service because it's not always easy to find.

Host 1 (54:57)

Thank you for coming.

Sarah Creel (54:58)

Thank you for having me.

Host 1 (55:00)

Thank you.

Sarah Creel (55:11)

Ready to order? Yes.

Capital One Advertiser (55:13)

We're earning unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with a Capital One saver card. So let's just get one of everything.

Kirby (55:19)

Everything.

Capital One Announcer (55:20)

Fire. Everything. The Capital One saver card is at table 27, and they're earning unlimited 3% cash back.

Sarah Creel (55:26)

Yes, Chef.

Capital One Advertiser (55:27)

This is so nice.

Capital One Announcer (55:29)

Had a feeling you'd want 3% cash back on dessert.

Capital One Advertiser (55:31)

Ooh, tiramisu.

Capital One Announcer (55:33)

Earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining and entertainment with the Capital One savor card. Capital One what's in your wallet?

Sarah Creel (55:39)

Terms apply.

Host 1 (55:40)

See capitalone.com for details.