Stila and Neen Founder Jeanine Lobell is the Makeup Industry's Original Rock Star

Summary

Gloss Angeles Podcast: Stila and Neen Founder Jeanine Lobell is the Makeup Industry's Original Rock Star

Hosts: Kirbie Johnson & Sara Tan
Guest: Jeanine Lobell
Release Date: October 3, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features trailblazing makeup artist and founder Jeanine Lobell, celebrated for creating Stila Cosmetics and more recently Neen. Kirbie and Sara take listeners on an engaging journey through Jeanine’s storied career—her unconventional beginnings, creative inspiration, lessons from the '90s beauty scene, the process of launching iconic brands and products, and her wisdom for a new generation of founders. The conversation is filled with nostalgic moments, honest advice, and behind-the-scenes stories from a true original in the beauty industry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Jeanine’s Must-Have Products & Artistry Tips

Timestamps: 02:22–06:49

• Jeanine’s top five products::
  • Laura Mercier or NARS tinted moisturizer
  • Cinema Secrets spot concealer (“really old school, five-pan palette”)
  • Neen mascara (“my lifesaver for skin”)
  • La Mer as primer (“so sticky...held that makeup”)
  • Bioeffect eye masks with EGF Power Serum
    “That was like a primer to me because it, like, just held that makeup. Before it was, like, $5,000.” – Jeanine (02:50)
• Application technique: Jeanine prefers using fingers over sponges or brushes to apply foundation for warmth and texture awareness (04:00).
• Makeup artist advice: “Sometimes, you know, put [foundation] on, do something else, come back to it, and it'll really show you where you need more,” to adapt for oily and dry patches (04:45).

The Story Behind Neen’s Mascara

Timestamps: 05:18–06:49

• Jeanine explains the innovation behind Neen’s mascara: polymers that wrap and hydrate lashes without making them stiff.
  “It’s not tubing, but they sort of wrap around the lashes and hydrate them… I have three coats of mascara on, but they’re soft.” – Jeanine (05:44)
• Product development emphasizes brush, formula, and wiper for optimal payoff.

Jeanine’s Early Life and Creative Roots

Timestamps: 07:02–11:02

• Grew up in Sweden, moved to London, Paris, and LA. Her mother was a ‘50s model—“crazy beautiful”—who influenced Jeanine’s emphasis on glamour.
  “She had like a triptych mirror, getting ready to go out… she flew to London and Vidal Sassoon gave her one of those first bobs…” – Jeanine (07:13)
• Teenage years embraced punk/new wave aesthetic—DIY matte red lipstick, black Louise Brooks bob.

Path to Beauty: Mime School and Cinematic Makeup

Timestamps: 09:43–14:34

• Attended mime school in Paris as a ticket to the city:
  “I went to this school and it was Marcel Marceau’s teacher… he’d scream at us, thought we were the advanced class.” – Jeanine (10:28)
• Started as a file clerk at age 15, learned work ethic early (09:54).
• Breakthroughs as a makeup artist: Hired for the “Hairspray” video, then landmark gigs like Naomi Campbell for Michael Jackson’s “In the Closet” video, adapting quickly and winning over skeptical talent.
• Worked with music luminaries: Mariah Carey, Motley Crue, R.E.M., Wilson Phillips.
  • On young Mariah Carey: “She was Baby Mariah. She was great… People decide that somebody’s something, and then everything they do is like, oh, there she goes. It’s not like that.” (13:00)

Building Stila: Beginnings, Iconic Packaging, and Impact

Timestamps: 14:34–19:47

• Stila began as a favor for a friend’s store, a “nonchalant thing”:
  “It’s like somebody said to me, wanna go to Vegas? And I’m like, yeah, let’s go to Vegas. And then I’m like, what the fuck am I doing in Vegas?” – Jeanine (14:52)
• Innovation in Paper Packaging:
  • Hated available plastic; collaborated with a mailing tube manufacturer to create recycled paper lipstick tubes.
  • Invented the now-industry-standard paperboard palette:
    “I invented that...I should have patented it. I would have been so rich. But it gives me so much joy because so many brands have been able to launch because of that palette.” – Jeanine (15:50)
• Sustainability wasn’t the initial driver, but is now central to her ethos:
  “There was just no awareness...But whenever I could, I favored [sustainable materials]... It’s different for me to actually put 140,000 pieces of plastic into the world. I just don’t want to be that girl.” – Jeanine (16:49)

The Stila Girl: Creativity from Constraint

Timestamps: 17:41–19:47

• Developed illustrated “Stila girl” for branding because of limited budgets and desire for inclusivity:
  “Necessity is the mother of all invention...I found that kind of advertising [with supermodels] more alienating...Let’s just use these cartoon girls...” – Jeanine (17:56)
• Used multiple artists, built flexibility, and embodied the brand’s whimsical and approachable spirit.

The Wild 90s & Brand Founder Camaraderie

Timestamps: 19:47–21:14

• Discusses collaborative, unscripted feel of ‘90s beauty entrepreneurship: “People like you and these other early aughts brand founders...kind of just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. It was kind of like a playground…” – Sara (19:53)
• Remains friendly with icons like Bobbi Brown, Wendy Zomnir, and Eugenia Weston.
  “François Nars. I mean, he was epic.” – Jeanine (20:59)

Then vs. Now: The New Brand Founder Experience

Timestamps: 21:17–26:53

• More pressure today. Stakes higher for founders, influencer/retail-driven landscape: “I think people feel a lot of pressure to get the right influencer or to even, like, to get into Sephora. I’m like…they’re all running to Sephora? Oh girl, I hope it works out.” – Jeanine (22:14)
• Retail advice: It’s not always a win; costs and competition are fierce.
  “The expense of being in there is so high, and it’s a lot of noise around you...Somebody’s gonna die, you know?” (22:19, 23:11)
• Affirms the rise of makeup artist-founded brands as positive:
  “Charlotte, Patrick, Mario, Pat...these are the brands that are doing well. It’s the art. I mean...we know what time it is, you know, in our area.” – Jeanine (24:11)
• Urges not everyone needs to chase billion-dollar valuations:
  “We’re so programmed to be like, I want the billion dollar valuation bullshit...” – Jeanine (25:36)
• Reveals true cost behind mini-sized beauty products in retail:
  “A mini pencil is the same cost practically as a full size.” (26:32)

Selling Stila: Inside the Acquisition

Timestamps: 26:55–33:01

• Sold Stila to Estée Lauder in just five years (“so fast!”), after rejecting LVMH’s earlier offer.
• Honest negotiation story:
  “He [Leonard Lauder] was asking me questions like, So, Jeanine, how do you determine your price point? And I’m such a ding dong. Like, I’m like, well, I sit around with my friends...what the fuck would you pay for it?” (27:28)
• Took care of employees with proceeds:
  “When I sold Stila, I gave every person that worked for me money from the sale...I did not want to be that girl where people are like, well, she made out like a bandit and we got fucked.” (29:59)
• Candid about integration challenges post-acquisition:
  “It was very difficult because I would say to Leonard, it’s really not fun being teacher’s pet.” (29:59)
• Critical advice for founders considering acquisitions:
  “If you sell your brand or get majority investors, you work for them...don’t cry about it, because it is what it is.” (31:26)
• Cleverly negotiated release from non-compete after Estée Lauder sold Stila to someone else (32:30).

Neen: Vision, Values, and Inclusive Beauty

Timestamps: 33:01–41:00

• After creative work at Kevyn Aucoin, Jeanine launched Neen after COVID—seeking renewed creative engagement, community, and challenge.
  • “I wanted to kind of take that part of myself... if you look at our tutorials, every person is different...they tell their story. It’s not about me...I like to be the wizard, the nice wizard, not the creepy one behind the curtain.” (36:00)
• Passionate about avoiding demographic pigeonholing: “The one question that makes me just crazy is when people say, what's your demographic? Like, I fucking hate that question...I wanted to create for me. Neen isn’t like an age or a type…” (36:00)
• Neen’s “conscious consumer”: multipurpose products, mindful packaging, high performance, “future-forward” clean formulas.
• On packaging inspiration:
  "The font is called Tango… it's the Last Tango in Paris movie poster, which turns out to be the most problematic movie of all time…” – Jeanine (39:36)
• Encourages product refills, uses silicone to avoid microplastics, and embeds positive affirmations in packaging:
  “It’s called meta...for me, it's like, may you feel beautiful, not be beautiful, because you should feel beautiful no matter what other people think that you are.” (41:00)

Jeanine’s Favorite Neen Products

Timestamps: 41:28–43:27

• Mascara and lip gloss are her standouts, with a cult-favorite shade (“Belle”) resurrected due to viral demand:
  “There was like a TikTok that kind of blew…Jennifer Lopez putting on lip polish in the wedding planner…and it was a Stila product…I found an old one, my friend had one in storage…and we went to the lab and recreated the color.” (43:12)

Looking Back on Stila

Timestamps: 43:28–44:23

• Jeanine has let go emotionally:
  “I feel nothing. Isn't that weird?...People are like, it was your baby. I was like, no, I have babies...I let it go so long ago. It just doesn't matter.” (43:44)
• Observes Stila as needing “a leader” for fresh direction but wishes them well.

Memorable Career Moment: The W Magazine Michelle Williams/Ryan Gosling Shoot

Timestamps: 44:33–45:48

• Sara shares a cherished memento: a 2010 W Magazine with Jeanine’s work.
  “I absolutely refused to get rid of this magazine…when I was doing research…I realized it was you.” – Sara (44:31)
• Jeanine promises to send Sara a new Neen red inspired by the look.

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Notable Quotes

• “Necessity is the mother of all invention.” – Janine Lobell (17:56)
• “Some people need a plan and some people just need to walk, you know what I mean? And on the journey, they figure out where they're supposed to go. I’m more like that person.” – Janine Lobell (15:32)
• “Let’s let them just…you could have like five really cute shoe stores that people are loyal to…We’re so programmed to be like, I want the billion dollar valuation bullshit.” – Janine Lobell (25:36)
• “If you sell your brand or get majority investors, you work for them, and if you’re okay with that, go for it. If you’re not…be prepared to walk away. But don’t cry about it, because it is what it is.” – Janine Lobell (31:26)

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Where to Find Jeanine & Neen

• Instagram: @weareneen
• Website: weareneen.com
• Stocked at select Blue Mercury locations, Revolve, Nordstrom, and more.

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Summary

Jeanine Lobell’s journey weaves together resourcefulness, creativity, and independence, from punk beginnings to legacy-building brands. Listeners are gifted not only with makeup wisdom and industry context but honest reflections on how building and letting go of a brand can shape a life well-lived. This episode is a must for makeup lovers, brand-builders, and anyone inspired by authenticity and reinvention.

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[Ad and outro content omitted.]

Transcript

[Capital One Bank Guy]

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[Janine Lobel]

Thanks.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Term supply. See capital1.combank capital1.na member FDIC.

[Janine Lobel]

G L A M Los Angeles.

[Kirby]

Hi, Kirby.

[Sarah]

Hi, Sarah. Welcome to Los Angeles. Icon status on the pod today.

[Janine Lobel]

Woo.

[Sarah]

This is so major that this woman sold her brand, her first brand, before you and I were even beauty editors. So we didn't even get to meet her as part of that brand.

[Kirby]

I know. Crazy.

[Sarah]

We now only know as her current brand.

[Janine Lobel]

Yes.

[Sarah]

But I have talked long and many times to Sarah about how I want to do, like, a big symposium with beauty titans, and your name is always on the list. Janine Lobel, welcome to the podcast.

[Janine Lobel]

Thank you.

[Sarah]

We are so thrilled to have you. We're glad we can make this work, because where are you based?

[Janine Lobel]

I live in New York.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Janine Lobel]

But I do come here all the time, and I think we've tried before, but it's just never. And then, of course, I'm in the hotel across the street, so that's even better. Oh, okay.

[Sarah]

We love that for us. We love that for us.

[Kirby]

But even though we didn't get to meet you as beauty editors, you impacted us greatly in our adolescence when we were learning how to use makeup. Play with makeup.

[Sarah]

Stila. Stay all day. The liner, like, the ultimate liner.

[Kirby]

Also, if you were to give me a lip glaze and just if I closed my eyes and you twisted it, I would be like, oh, I know.

[Janine Lobel]

That was crazy. I remember, like, back then, I'd be in, like, you know, like a bathroom at a restaurant, and I'd hear like, click, click, click, click. And I'd be like.

[Sarah]

Okay, so, Janine, you have such a fascinating background, and I know you've talked about it till you're blue in the face. We are going to make you retell during this podcast. But before we get into that, we want to know what. What are five products you can't live without?

[Janine Lobel]

Okay. It can kind of rotate. But, like, you know, in my artistry, I've always done foundation a particular way, and I've always, like, I'll show up on set and people just do that skin thing you do, you know? Cause I came from the time when there was, like, no retouching. Right. And you'd be in trouble if they had to. You'd be like, I'm sorry. I really tried to cover it, you know, and it's so different now, but I still. So for that, I either use this, my secret. I use either the Laura Mercier tinted moisturizer or the Nars tinted moisturizer, and I put that on all over. Then I use, like, a spot concealer by Cinema Secrets, which is, like, really old school. I don't even know what's in there. But it's like this five pan palette, and you just spot cover with that. I would say from Neen. Our mascara is definitely my lifesaver for skin. For years, I always used before primers. Right. I used La Mer because it was so sticky, and. And I think it was before it was like, $5,000. But so that was like, a primer to me because it, like, you know, just held that makeup. So that's. We're up to four now, and today I live for the, you know, the Biofect eye masks. Have you ever used those? And you have to use the EGF power serum first. And you put it on, and it's like literally every fin is gone.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Janine Lobel]

I mean, they come back, you know, whenever, but it's insane. So I would say those are my. My, my girls.

[Kirby]

So hung. When he was on, he also talked about the creme. Do you have a specific way of applying it?

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah, it's so kind of, you know, it's so dense. Right. So, you know, I'm not a sponge person. I feel like sponges just absorb too much product and kind of move it around and sort of the warmth of your fingers and even, like, touching people's skin tells you, oh, man, I'm gonna have to put more on here. This is like a weird patch or. You know what I mean? So I like to kind of take a little bit. You really have to warm it up. And then I just kind of pat it and give it a second and just kind of try to get it, you know, it's more like that than anything else.

[Kirby]

Okay. A little tap.

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Yeah. I love the tip of touching the skin so you can feel the texture of your skin because you can't feel.

[Kirby]

It with the brush or the sponge. You're right.

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah. And the other thing is, like, I'll put on, like, the foundation stuff that I mentioned, and then I wait, you know, and I go do the eyes for a bit or do some other part, and I see what part of the skin is either pushing the foundation off because it's oily. Or the tinted moisturizer in my case, or absorbing it because it's a dry patch. Because once you powder, you're in. Like, you're. You're. You're just in. So, you know, if you're doing your own makeup sometimes, you know, put that on, do something else, come back to it, you know, and it'll really show you where you need more.

[Sarah]

I need to know about the Neen mascara, because I'm a mascara girl. I'm a dye.

[Janine Lobel]

You don't have it. I sent it to you.

[Sarah]

I know, I know, y'.

[Janine Lobel]

All.

[Sarah]

I was traveling before this, so I did not get my package. But I. Tell me, what makes this your ultimate? Like, why do you love it?

[Janine Lobel]

Well, I was. I know I was always like a. Originally, I was a Chanel mascara girl. Then I got into the IT Mascara. Cause I like really thick full lashes. Like, you know, give me, like, fuzzy, you know, and this does that. It has all these crazy polymers. I can't speak science that well, but it's not tubing, but they sort of wrap around the lashes and hydrate them. So, like, if you feel my lashes, I have, like, three coats of mascara on, but they're soft.

[Sarah]

Yeah. I was gonna say it doesn't look like three coats.

[Janine Lobel]

No. And I have three, four eyelashes. So this is. I should have come with one eye on, one eye off. So it's very black. It's very building. There's three parts to mascara. The formula, the brush, and the wiper. So the wiper's the thing that keeps too much. You guys know that from coming off. So I actually have a slightly wider wiper. So you get enough on your brush. You kind of have to clean the tip off before you use it. Cause I just want to. You can do one coat with this mascara. It's so insane. And very black. And then, of course, the brush has all these little things that, you know, whatever. I don't know what fibers. And it really. You'll see. You're gonna have to text me, and.

[Sarah]

You'Ll be like, yes, I'm the mascara girl. So I am very excited.

[Janine Lobel]

People love. We sold out. We were out of it for, like, nine months. We were crying so hard. But here we are.

[Sarah]

Let's go back to the beginning of Janine. You grew up in Sweden, then you moved to London, then eventually Paris, then la for your career. Your parents are from Queensland.

[Janine Lobel]

Mm.

[Sarah]

Okay. What inspired your beauty point of view most as a teen?

[Janine Lobel]

My mom was. Had modeled in the 50s. I'll show you guys, a picture later. She was like, crazy beautiful. And maybe a little bit hard for her because she was also quite bright. But she was always pretty, right? Especially back then. Can you imagine? So I have very specific memories of my mom. She had like a triptych mirror, getting ready to go out. She was very glamorous. You know, she flew to London and, like, the city and Vidal Sassoon gave her one of those first bobs and whatever, whatever. But then as a teenager, like, I think I was, I became one, especially in London, more kind of punk rock, you know. So I had like. I had like a black Louise Brooks bob and always wore red. Made my own matte red lips, you know, I think I was more of like a bow wow wow, new wave punky girl.

[Kirby]

How do you make your own matte red lipstick?

[Janine Lobel]

Well, you know, you put it on. You'd layer it with powder and put it back on, you know, I'd love.

[Kirby]

To see some of those photos.

[Janine Lobel]

I have some pictures of me from back then.

[Sarah]

You'll scream, well, you're talking about your mom being so beautiful. You're also so beautiful. So was it something that, you know, your mom was bright? Like, did you feel like, okay, I'm empowered because my mom is a smart woman, but she's also a model? Or was your mom, like, you should focus more on the superficial looks or the intellectual side?

[Janine Lobel]

Well, I think my dad was more invested, you know, I was bilingual. I became trilingual. You know, I was terrible in school. I was like a party girl, you know? But, like, I. You know, I would roll into my algebra class and they'd give me a standing ovation, you know, I'm not even kidding. And the teacher, I'd be like, dude, it's at 8:30 in the morning. I just can't do it. But I'll show up for all the tests, and I would get the highest score on the test.

[Kirby]

Oh, my God.

[Janine Lobel]

And he'd be like, she doesn't even show up, you know? So I was kind of wild. I actually don't think I knew I was smart until my late 20s. Not that I thought I was dumb, but it just wasn't something I. Because I didn't go to college, right? I thought, oh, you know, you have to go to college to be smart. And so many of the things that we know today and the language we have around things and the way we see ourselves is so different than it was back then, you know? So I think my mom definitely was more invested in physical appearance. And my dad Was kind of into. Cause my dad spoke five languages. He's extremely, extremely bright. So like that was his source of pride. Wow.

[Kirby]

We also read you went to mime school and you wanted to join the.

[Sarah]

Circus and you like legit were like a mime performer. That's amazing to me.

[Janine Lobel]

I don't have to ever got a job. Honestly, I was like the perpetual student, you know, so I could stay on the parents payroll, you know what I'm saying? But I also had jobs. I had my first job. So there was a bit when I lived in San Francisco from 12 to 16, and I had my first job when I was 15. I was a file clerk in a patent law firm. They all thought I was in college. I go there after school, so I always had jobs, but I wanted the parents to pay the rent.

[Kirby]

So wait, tell us more about mime school though.

[Janine Lobel]

Well, that was a way to get to Paris.

[Sarah]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Janine Lobel]

So I went to this school and it was Marcel Marceau's teacher. And he was like so vintage and so cranky and he'd scream at us cause he thought we were the advanced class. But we would be like, oh, you haven't taught us that just yet.

[Sarah]

You're like, we're beginners.

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kirby]

What's the key to being a good mime?

[Janine Lobel]

I. I don't know.

[Kirby]

Like, she's like, I don't know. I wasn't a good one.

[Janine Lobel]

I don't think I was a good one. I mean, I can do the robot and a few things, but like.

[Sarah]

I was going to ask you what the parallels are between being a mime in the beauty industry.

[Janine Lobel]

Well, not much.

[Sarah]

Yeah, I was going to say I.

[Janine Lobel]

Was floating still, you know, that was like before, like, okay, get your shit together.

[Sarah]

But it was a means to an end. Like, you wanted to be in Paris time. Yeah. Okay, so then you get into makeup and your resume is stacked. Like, I think you said your first job was John Waters Hairspray.

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah, the video for the movie.

[Sarah]

That's crazy.

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah, it was crazy. It was so much fun.

[Sarah]

Then it says you did Naomi Campbell for Michael Jackson's in the Closet music video because you were initially hired to do the dancers and she did not like her makeup. So you intervened.

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah, well, so we were in the desert. It was like five days in the desert, like out here somewhere. And she was so mean to George, may he rest in peace. She just didn't like him. And you know, Naomi has her thing, right? So like, why fight her, you know, like let her have her makeup the way she wants. And I see George's car, like, leaving across the dry lake bed. And they came to me and they're like, you have to do Naomi. And I was like, okay. And we got along great. She invited us to the Isaac Mizrahi show. She walked in in New York, because we all went to New York and we hung out in her apartment. She was. I love Naomi. She is epic. But it was a crazy job. Like, we had a whole contract. We were not allowed to make eye contact with Michael Jackson. There were all these crazy rules. They had that mtv, My Dinner with Michael, like, circus tent set up. It was bonkers. Naomi's riding an elephant, you know, it was crazy. Wow. So that was a good job for me.

[Sarah]

Yeah. I mean, just the stories alone. And then we have the musical acts. REM Wilson Phillips, Natalie Merchant, Motley Crue.

[Janine Lobel]

Motley Crue. Mariah Carey, back in the day.

[Kirby]

What was that like working with her back in the day?

[Janine Lobel]

Well, she was Baby Mariah. She was great.

[Kirby]

Not her diva status yet.

[Janine Lobel]

Well, I think that's something people impose on her necessarily. I mean, I worked with her for an elle cover, like, 20 years later, and she was. She's great. She's a lovely person. People decide that somebody's something, and then everything they do is like, oh, there she goes. It's not like that. Yeah, totally.

[Sarah]

So how did those experiences shape Stila as a brand? Especially working on both men and women and such.

[Kirby]

Different types of, like, settings, too.

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah. I mean, every video, even if it was the crew, you know, had girls in it. So you're always doing the girls and the, you know, doing everything. I mean, back then, we'd have to do hair. I was cutting people's hair and had no idea how to cut hair. You know, like, whatever. Ironing the cloth, whatever it took. I don't know how it shaped it in terms of, like, product, but it shaped my work ethic. So, you know, like, I worked 16 hour days on videos. They'd come to me, like, hour 17, like, Janine, that girl left. Can you put on her outfit and be the girl? You know, like, we just. It was crazy. I was a 20s showgirl in a church video. I mean, with tassels and. Anyway, so I think it's. If anything, it just made me a really hard worker and a yes girl. You know, I say this all the time. So many people now define, you know, their value or their worth. So, you know, like, yeah, I'm not gonna do that. And it's like, well, if you don't do it. No one actually gives a shit that you're not there. Somebody else will do that job, you know, anyway, so I think that's really the only answer for that.

[Kirby]

You launched Steela because your friend needed a makeup brand at her store. And then you didn't want to just slap your name on something. You wanted to do it, you know, the way that you wanted to do it. But it was sort of like just a thing, a favor, if you will.

[Sarah]

A nonchalant thing is what you made it sound like.

[Janine Lobel]

I always say it's like somebody said to me, wanna go to Vegas? And I'm like, yeah, let's go to Vegas. And then I'm like, what the fuck am I doing in Vegas?

[Kirby]

Which it's just so different from nowadays where everything is so planned and calculated, but you just was like, were like.

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, why not? Yeah. I mean, she had already started. She had a bunch of private label cosmetics. She'd printed all this packaging without trademarking the name. The name she had was City, which I changed to Shitty. And we threw it all out and found a lab and, you know, and then I came up with the paper packaging and all the things, you know, and I think, you know, some people need a plan and some people just need to walk, you know what I mean? And on the journey, they figure out where they're supposed to go. I'm more like that person.

[Sarah]

Tell us more about the paper packaging, because we do have some younger listeners who may not know that Stila really was on the cutting edge of having this paper packaging.

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah, the paper. I mean, I didn't like any of the plastic components that were available to brand my size. So I was like, well, what about paper? You know? And so I found this guy in Cincinnati who made mailing tubes. And I was like, does your wife wear lipstick? I was like, okay, so that size, can you make a tube that size? And he was like, yeah, and we made it together. And I was like, well, let's do recycled paper. And then, you know, it sort of went from there. And then I did the. Then I wanted palettes. So, you know, those. The paper compact you see today, the paper board palette. I invented that. You know, I should have patented it. I would have been so rich. But really, it. It gives me so much joy because so many brands have been able to launch because of that palette. Because you can. You can make a thousand of them. You don't have to make 10,000. And so all these, I see them everywhere. And I'm like, all right.

[Kirby]

You know, were you doing that also because you were like a eco conscious person?

[Janine Lobel]

I wasn't.

[Kirby]

No.

[Janine Lobel]

There was. I mean, there was just no awareness. Yeah, I mean, there was some, but it was more niche. And I was like, well, if I can. I mean, the clicky pen was plastic, right? There was plenty. The convertible collar is plastic. It looks like metal, but it's plastic. But whenever I could, I favored more, you know, and that's become more urgent to me today than it was back then for sure. It was really just like, I'm not a soapbox kind of person. But I say this even with the packaging I make now. There's a difference between buying something that comes in plastic bubbles or drinking this with the plastic. And. And, you know, I've made 140,000 of these so far, and they're not plastic. You know, it's different for me to actually make. Put 140,000 pieces of plastic into the world. I just don't want to be that girl.

[Kirby]

Totally. Can we talk about the Stila girl?

[Janine Lobel]

Oh, yeah.

[Kirby]

Okay, so what was the thinking behind that? Was that because you didn't have money to hire models?

[Janine Lobel]

Or was it, as I always say.

[Kirby]

She was so cute, like, oh, my God, iconic.

[Janine Lobel]

Well, necessity is the mother of all invention, right? So the steel girl came from A, no money, B, not wanting to have a. Also having that feeling like, well, you know, ads. You had, like, Christy and this one and that one. It's like, well, I don't think I'm gonna look like Christy. Cause I buy that mascara, you know? And so I found that kind of advertising more alienating than anything else. So I was like, let's just use. And I thought of all the 40s, you know, in the 40s, they used illustration. Let's just use these cartoon girls that really look like people, but sort of people. And then we could sort of, you know, show different ethnicities and, you know, all of it.

[Kirby]

Yeah, yeah. Who drew it?

[Janine Lobel]

Did you draw it? We started with this artist named Jeffrey Fulminari. He did the first year, maybe. And then we switched to this girl Caitlin, who worked in house for us and changed the look. So it wasn't like we were totally, you know, gouging poor Jeffrey, but.

[Kirby]

And I just love, like, you know, there was, like, she was in Paris, and she was very worldly.

[Janine Lobel]

I know. And it was so easy, too. Like, hey, we're launching Lane Crawford. Let's make Elaine Crawford girl. And also, it was like, the ads and everything. It was like, The. She represented the feeling of the product, you know, because you couldn't show it on her face. So, like, the first ad we ever did was for our little lip gloss in the aluminum tube, and it said, catch the perfect pout. And she's running with a butterfly net, and she's caught all the little lips off the tube. Right. So it was just like whimsical and happy and, you know, things just had to. We had great taglines, you know, and it all sort of like when we did the pen, it was like, start a lip revolution. And it was like girls like this, you know, like the old Andrews Sisters. And I don't know, everything was very connected.

[Kirby]

So fun.

[Sarah]

I want to go back to the 90s because it just feels like I don't. Okay, okay.

[Janine Lobel]

I mean.

[Sarah]

I mean, okay.

[Janine Lobel]

It was so long ago.

[Kirby]

No, but so many girls now, I.

[Janine Lobel]

Mean, they're obsessed with the 90s.

[Sarah]

With the 90s. They don't even realize that what they're doing was inspired by the 90s, a lot of them. You know what I mean? But I was thinking more so of. Of people like you and these other early aughts brand founders, where they're kind of just like throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. And it was kind of like a playground, from what it sounds like, where you kind of had this freedom to do things. And do you still. Do you communicate with any of these brand founders that you kind of came up with?

[Janine Lobel]

Well, like, Bobby and I will interact a little on social. Wendy Zomner, whenever I see her, you know, we. We shoot the shit. Who else is it? Some of them just Eugenia and I are still friendly. Yeah, there's definitely a few. Francois. Not really. I mean, he's very shy, so.

[Sarah]

And by the way, she's just like, listing off icons as like. Yeah, we're like Francois Nars. Yeah, that's Bobby.

[Janine Lobel]

Come on. Yeah. Francois Nars. I mean, he was epic. Laura, I don't know where she is. I think she's in France somewhere. I mean, good for her. That's why. Yeah, right. And he's on an island. I mean, I, like, I'm always happy to run into people when I do, you know.

[Kirby]

Yeah. It was such a special time to come up together.

[Sarah]

But what do you think the biggest change has been for a founder from then to now?

[Janine Lobel]

I feel like the pressures more hardcore. The stakes seem higher for people. I'm in a very different boat than most people. Right. Cause, like, I don't have anything to prove, you know, And I proved my. You know, if I was worried about proving myself, which I wasn't, but I did. So I have a sort of inherent confidence about what I'm doing, where I don't feel like I gotta rush to be here or there, do this or do that, like, for me, And I'm not saying other people aren't. It just has to be an authentic journey, you know, like, what's supposed to be happens when it. You know what I'm trying to say. So I'm kind of in a different position, but I think people feel a lot of pressure, you know, to get the right influence or to even, like, to get into Sephora. I'm like, wait, you know, they, like, all running to Sephora? And I'm like, oh, girl, I hope it works out.

[Kirby]

Tell us more about that. Do you think. You obviously don't think it's necessary to launch with a retailer.

[Janine Lobel]

I think that retail presence is important because it validates your brand and it gives people an opportunity to touch and feel in person. Right. And it teaches you a little bit about, like, what people. It's hard, you know, to go on your shopify and determine what. What it is, but feedback from people in stores and all that is very helpful, I think, when you go into these bigger. And this is just my opinion, I don't have a finance degree. You know what I mean? But, like, in a Sephora, and we're in Ulta, the expense of being in there is so high, and it's a lot of noise around you, so you have to be really smart and strategic. And I think there's only really one way you should get in there. And it's a little like, what are they adding 18 brands this fall? Like, somebody's gonna die, you know?

[Sarah]

No, that's.

[Janine Lobel]

That's our.

[Sarah]

All the time, you know, because, yeah, we featured a lot of the new brands that have entered Sephora in the past few months, and we are constantly asking each other who's getting removed.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Janine Lobel]

And.

[Sarah]

And.

[Janine Lobel]

And scary.

[Sarah]

How many stores. Yeah.

[Kirby]

Someone's shelf has to either.

[Janine Lobel]

Right.

[Kirby]

Shrink or go away.

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

There's not enough shelf space for everybody, so.

[Janine Lobel]

But I do have to say I love this moment of makeup artist brands. I was gonna ask you Mary Phillips, who. I don't know, but, like, you would.

[Sarah]

Love her underpainting palette if you haven't tried it.

[Janine Lobel]

I haven't tried it.

[Sarah]

I think you would dig it.

[Janine Lobel]

Okay, I'm gonna try it. I'll go get one. And hung like, I'm super stoked. For Hung. He's such a sweetheart. You know, there's been a few, like, and I think, again, I don't have insight into their business, but, like, I think the brands besides, like, legacy, like Dior, Chanel, what? You know, but like, think about it. Charlotte, Patrick, Mario, Pat, these are the brands that are doing well. It's the art. I mean, you know, I buy hair care from hair people, I buy skincare from derms. Like, why? You know what I'm saying? Like, we know what time it is, you know, in our area. So I'm really hopeful that the retailers are seeing that and are going to really support these kind of brands.

[Sarah]

Yeah, I think that's, you know, I think everybody now is fighting over who's going to be the next makeup artist, brand founder, because I think that the consumer wants that too. There's like this inherent trust in that, the makeup artist.

[Janine Lobel]

But I also feel like, can we not build a model? That doesn't mean that one has to be like, you know. Cause the only place you go from there is down 100%. Right. So why can we have like, more like a makeup bag kind of a store, you know what I'm saying? Where like, oh, my God, I love colorful palettes. I get them from Hung. You know, I'm into underpainting. I get that from Mary. I'm into sheer foundation. I get that from Mario. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, don't put all that pressure on people. Like, let's let them just. I always say this, like, not everybody has to be Steve Madden or Aldo. You could have like five really cute shoot stores that people are loyal to. People have worked there for 20 years. They love you, you love them. We're so programmed to be like, I want the billion dollar valuation bullshit. And then everything else supposedly not as good, you know.

[Kirby]

Right, right.

[Janine Lobel]

It's like a weird mindset we have.

[Sarah]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Kirby]

That's really.

[Sarah]

Because then what happens?

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah, what happens to everybody else?

[Kirby]

Yeah, like, we talk about it all the. It's like once they get into Sappora.

[Janine Lobel]

It'S like, oh, my God, the money you spend.

[Sarah]

The rat race.

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah, it is a rat race to like, you know, be on that poster or be on that end cap or even to be in those little checkout bins. You pay like 40 grand a year or something insane, you know. Whoa.

[Sarah]

See, that's my favorite section. You have to pay $40,000 to be on 10.

[Janine Lobel]

I think it's 10,000 per bin quarterly or something. Damn.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Janine Lobel]

And you're selling a mini, right? So your cost of goods is high because costs the same to make this mascara as this mascara. And your price point is lower. I mean, you know. Yeah.

[Sarah]

Wait, okay, so then is that why we don't see a lot of minis from brands because the cost of them is the same as the full size?

[Janine Lobel]

It's very close. Okay, right. Because it's, you know, especially if you're using. If you're using like a glass jar or a better quality product, it's not the plastic that costs like 30% more plastic, it's the production. So some things can be cheaper. Okay, like, but like, say, like a mini pencil is the same cost practically as a full size.

[Sarah]

Wow.

[Kirby]

Wild.

[Sarah]

So you sold Stila after five years to Estee Lauder. If you put that in perspective to like the sales we've seen the past few years, like three years, five years. That's very quick.

[Kirby]

Very fast.

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah, it was really fast.

[Sarah]

And you had been courted by another company prior to this.

[Janine Lobel]

You were like. I said that for the first time out loud. Yeah, it was lvmh.

[Sarah]

I was reading that you said, I think we're good right now. And then Leonard Lauder, you smoked in front of him. You pulled out a ciggy and smoked in front of him on a terrace.

[Janine Lobel]

But you said he was a Bel Air hotel.

[Kirby]

You said, he was a lovely man.

[Janine Lobel]

I loved him. He was unbelievable. But it was literally like. We went to see him, he had like, food for us. Cause we decided not to do lvmh. And then he'd been calling us, and I was like, let's go meet Leonard Lauder. Like, how cool is that? Yes, Leonard Lauder, you know, so we met him in his hotel, like on a Friday, Thursday or Friday. And he was asking me questions like, so, Jeanine, how do you determine your price point? You know? And I'm such a ding dong. Like, I'm like, well, I sit around with my friends. I know what it costs to make. And then I say, what the fuck would you pay for it? And he just thought that was the funniest thing, you know. And everything was just. I was just honest, you know.

[Kirby]

That seems right to me, right?

[Janine Lobel]

Like, would you pay $40 for this? I wouldn't, you know, or whatever, you know, poll your friends. And then, you know, I'm nervous. I'm like, smoking on his terrace, you know, Smoke in front of Leonard Lauderdale. And apparently, you know, he went back and he basically said, give her what she wants. And I threw out this crazy number that had nothing to do with what we were actually selling. And they bought Stila. And they used to joke and say, which sounds creepy, but it's not. You know, Leonard bought Janine.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Janine Lobel]

You know.

[Kirby]

Right. I mean, that's important, though. When you're acquiring a brand, the founder is, like, super important. Like, you want to believe in their story. So this was like, peak Stila?

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah. This is 2003, maybe.

[Kirby]

Okay, so you said no to LVMH. You were just wanting to meet Leonard just for fun. Right. But you didn't really think that you were going to be selling the company.

[Janine Lobel]

No. Yeah, I mean, I kind of. Part of me wanted to. Like, I was starting to feel very. Like, this is so much responsibility. I had a bunch of kids I was cranking out, too, you know, and I was still a makeup artist.

[Sarah]

Four kids.

[Janine Lobel]

Well, I have four biologicals and an extra. Yeah, okay, so five.

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

That's a lot of kids.

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah. And I just felt like, God, I really want some real grownups in the room. You know, I felt like I needed that, you know? You know, the fake it till you make it thing, you know, kind of thing. And I was just like, I can't believe I got this far.

[Sarah]

Yeah, right. So you named your price. They were like, great, we're doing this. So then, now you're a part of this huge conglomerate. You don't seem like a play by the rules type of gal, based off of every single thing that you've told us in this interview, plus everything we've read.

[Kirby]

So.

[Sarah]

So how was it being a part of that company?

[Janine Lobel]

It was very difficult because I would say to Leonard, you know, it's really not fun being teacher's pet. You know, it was really that simple. Like, he would tell them to do things, they'd be like, yeah, they'd give him the yeah yeahs, and then he'd leave, and then they'd go do something completely. I mean, they did a lot of jank stuff. I made peace with that. I tell this story sometimes. When I sold Steela, I gave every person that worked for me money from the sale. And we had, like, a formula of like, okay, this what she gets a year. This is how long she's been here. And it ranged from $10,000 to $250,000 for a few people. Right? Because I did not want to be that girl where people are like, well, she made out like a bandit and we got fucked, you know, kind of thing. And so it was really important for me that people worked for me, felt that I acknowledged that they had done this with me. Like, where are people in the warehouse? Everybody, right. Who was on salary? So I must have kind of had a premonition in some way, you know, that, like, this might not work out the way I want it to. And so I need to be right with me and people in my life. So it was very difficult, for sure. But, you know, I stuck it out. And I had made peace with that before. I knew it was gonna be tough before it was tough.

[Kirby]

What advice would you give founders today who are looking for some sort of acquisition or maybe they're unsure if they want to go in that direction?

[Janine Lobel]

I would say don't kid yourself. You know, if you sell your brand or get majority investors, you work for them, and if you're okay with that, go for it. If you're not okay with that, be prepared to walk away. But don't cry about it, because it is what it is. Like, there's no story. Unlike mine, you know, where it was like, yeah, it was really difficult after we sold. Yeah, it was really difficult. Everybody has that experience, and it's how it's supposed to be. I'm not saying they're bad or wrong, but it's just a weird. It's oil and vinegar, right. And so I think if you want that, if you want that security for yourself, your family, whatever, go for it. Know that it's a different dynamic and you have to be prepared for it. And I think I was so, like, I wasn't bitter or worked up about anything. I was like, okay, well, we knew that was gonna happen, you know, kind of thing. Yeah.

[Sarah]

Were you contracted to stay with the brand for a certain amount of time?

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah, I had five years, but I stayed, I think, for seven or eight.

[Sarah]

Okay, and then after that, did you have a non compete?

[Janine Lobel]

I got out of my compete.

[Sarah]

How? Tell the people, you know, I, Leonard loved you.

[Janine Lobel]

No, no, that had nothing to do with. I always say it's like, you know, like the Indiana Jones things where he like, rolls under the door before the big ball or the wall comes down on after. I don't know how long. They decided to sell Stila to someone else. And somebody had forgotten to get me to sign off on something. So I said I would only sign if I was released from my non compete.

[Sarah]

Good for you. We love leverage. Yes, we love a leverage.

[Janine Lobel]

Female leverage is everything. Yes. Female leverage. Female leverage. We don't get it as much as we should. I love that term.

[Kirby]

So then you launched Neen.

[Janine Lobel]

Well, then I worked on the Kevyn Aucoin.

[Kirby]

Oh, that's right. So you're the creative director for. At Kevyn Aucoin for a year. Okay.

[Janine Lobel]

And how was that? You know, Kevin. I knew Kevin back in the day when I was baby makeup artist, you know, and of course it was Kevin. Right. And he had passed before his brand launched and you know, it's kind of gone through. It was not doing well. And they asked me to come in and I brought reformulated the things that they had changed for money, you know, reasons. I made new compacts, like two pans, like more consumer friendly stuff and got it into like space nk I think, and Bergdorfs and you know, and then acquired by Manzanita. So I was proud of that and I was very quiet about it. It's like, no one needs to hear about me. This is about Kevin. You know, I was like, I'm the creative director of Kevin Aquan. You know, like, it just didn't matter to me. I just wanted to make it right.

[Kirby]

Cause you guys were friends?

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah, we were friendly for sure. Yeah. I just. It was an honor honestly to sort of kind of. And for his family and everything too.

[Sarah]

So you did that and then when did you get the idea for Nene? How far after you did that? Did Neen launch?

[Janine Lobel]

Well, I think Kevyn Aucoin was. I have no time sense of time. It's terrible. I think that was around 2014, maybe somewhere around there. So I started working on Nene and I would say in Covid in my mind anyway, you needed something to do.

[Sarah]

I was like, because you didn't have to go back to work, like you.

[Janine Lobel]

Were still a makeup artist. Yeah, I didn't really have to go back to work, but I still love doing makeup. You know, I don't do it so much anymore. I'll do the occasional thing with Jessica or whatever, but like, you know, whatever. I don't really. It's not my thing so much anymore. So I don't know why I did this to myself. I mean, I think honestly it was a combination of wanting to use my mind more and knowing that I was good at this. And I think I had a little fear of empty nest syndrome, which is so great to have an empty nest, but who knew? I'm a person, I like to create community in my own life, in my work life. I've mentored a lot of people. And you know, when people work for me, I like help them get. My first question is always like, well, what do you really want to do? You Know, like, let me figure out if I like you and I want to hire you, what's the path to get you there, right? So I kind of missed all of that. And I just was, again, it's the Vegas thing. I'm like, oh, yeah, maybe I should do another line. Okay. You know, like, I just don't overthink things too much.

[Sarah]

What was the inspiration in your head for Nene?

[Janine Lobel]

Well, I think I live a very, you know, people joke and call my apartment Hotel Lobel because I have so many bedrooms because I had so many kids. Right? And I'm a very community minded person. You know, I grew up in a socialist country and some of that is definitely imprinted on me, you know, the good of the group, the good of the whole. You know, if you have two, you give one away, like, all that stuff. So I wanted to kind of take that part of myself. And like, if you look at our tutorials, like, every person is different. You know, we have Kennedy, who has down syndrome. We have two trans models. We have, you know, and in our tutorials on our website, they talk, they tell their story, right? It's not about me, you know, Like, I like to be the wizard, the nice wizard, not the creepy one behind the curtain, you know, and bring people together and give them a space, you know? So I wanted to make products that were the way Stila had been. Like, the one question that makes me just crazy is when people say, what's your demographic? Like, I fucking hate that question. Because then I'm, you know, we are put in boxes all day long. You know, socioeconomic boxes, gender boxes, color boxes. Like, it just doesn't end with the boxes. Oh, if you're pretty, you can't be smart. If you're smart, you can't be this. If you're this, you're the. You know, if you're this, then you're insecure. Like, it's just relentless. And I wanted to create for me. Neen isn't like an age or a type. It's just like, hey, this is what I know. I've made some really rad formulas and really insane colors. You can be nude over here. You can be baby blue. Like, it's. It's for everybody, you know? That's really all I can say.

[Sarah]

It's funny though, because when it comes down to marketing or if you had anybody from the outside come in, they'd be like, we have to cater to a specific demographic.

[Janine Lobel]

So boring.

[Sarah]

Who is the mean girl in your opinion or guy or person who's the mean person.

[Janine Lobel]

The mean person is somebody who hopefully cares a little bit about the environment. You know, they don't have to like, you know, be on a. Like I said, be on a soapbox or you know, get on the Greenpeace flotilla or whatever it's called. You know what I mean? But just a conscious consumer, you know, I always say I'm the idiot. And consumer goods telling you not to consume so much. You know, a conscious consumer, everything. So many of the things are multi use, you know, the shadows are also highlighters. This is also that that wants to buy things more mindfully, that want products that really perform that aren't, you know, like, I always work in like warms with warms, cools with cools because they blend, they're easier to use. You don't like. I think it's a person. Yeah. So go back to the question properly. Sorry. It's a conscious consumer. A person who likes makeup, a person who likes quality. Person who wants clean. And I always say clean. For me, I call future forward formulas because I don't actually think, unless you have a health issue, that certain ingredients are gonna, you know, you're not gonna grow a tail. But things get disallowed all the time, so why not make it right now? I think it's kind of like a cool person who loves makeup, you know?

[Kirby]

Yeah, I get that vibe for sure when I play with your products.

[Sarah]

I'm a typography person, so I personally am obsessed with the label.

[Kirby]

I know, it's so easy.

[Janine Lobel]

Well, you know what it is, right? What do you mean? The font?

[Sarah]

No, what is it? It's kind of giving me like 70s, like porno.

[Janine Lobel]

It is. It's the Last Tango in Paris movie poster, which turns out to be the most problematic movie of all time.

[Sarah]

It is 100% problematic, but it's super cute. We won't think about it.

[Janine Lobel]

So the font is called Tango.

[Kirby]

Tango. Okay. You can see our Los Angeles. It's like they're like sisters.

[Sarah]

Yeah, we clearly like love a little serious moment.

[Janine Lobel]

I mean, I referenced that poster. Cause it's the one people know. But that font was used a lot in the 70s, I think.

[Sarah]

And the name, Janine Neen.

[Janine Lobel]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Love that.

[Kirby]

I love this silicone packaging. It's so fun to touch.

[Sarah]

It is. So I have a very early version of one of your lip. It was two different colors. There was like a deep plum and then there was like a pink. And I. I know it's like probably completely dried out now, but I have it saved in My little beauty library. Because I was like, I just love the packaging. It's. Obviously, you spent a lot of time on it.

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah, well, there's no microplastics. It's silicone. I had to mold it twice to get it right. It protects your product better. So, like, your shimmers don't shatter. You can pop it out and refill it.

[Sarah]

And then.

[Janine Lobel]

Do you notice the text around the pan?

[Kirby]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Oh, yeah.

[Kirby]

Oh, may you be happy.

[Sarah]

May you feel beautiful. May you be free. Is that your mantra?

[Janine Lobel]

Well, it's called meta. It's from meditation. It's like a Buddhist thing. You send wishes to mankind, to somebody who's hurt you, to yourself. There's many versions of it, but for me, it's like, may you feel beautiful, not be beautiful, because you should feel beautiful no matter what other people think that you are. You know what I'm saying?

[Sarah]

Totally.

[Janine Lobel]

So it's like my little secret. This is my wish. I love it for all beings.

[Kirby]

For people who haven't tried NEEN yet, listeners, I know it's really hard to pick your favorite child.

[Sarah]

You have no pick. Pick two.

[Kirby]

Pick two, Pick two products where you're like, these are. This is your entry point into the brand.

[Janine Lobel]

I would say the mascara for sure, because I, you know, I love it so much, and so it's so difficult to pick colors for people. But I would say our lip gloss. Like, I have to go make more of this. Like, we cannot keep it. It's really doing really well because it's such a great formula. You know, when you make lip gloss, the thing that makes it shiny and stay is, like, stringy, gross, sticky. Right. So we put all that in to make it shiny and stay. And then I tested different oils to get it to be, like, really feel creamy so you don't have that achy feel people love. I would say lip gloss and the flavor people get addicted for with specific color. Well, by which I shouldn't say. Cause I think we're sold out of it. Is our number one shade. It's so. It's like a sheer, shimmery shade. Or this one's actually coming out. It's called Belle. You know, there was like, a TikTok that kind of blew. That blew up. And it was Jennifer Lopez putting on lip polish in the wedding. Oh, God. Is it the wedding planner? Right. And it was a Stila product. And I commented, so this thing exploded, and everybody was like, bring it back, bring it back. So I went. I found one first. I couldn't remember the shade so we finally figured out what the shade was. Then I found an old one. My friend had one in storage, and we went to the lab and recreated the color. So this called Belle. I'm pretty sure it's going to be Everybody loves Belle. And I didn't. And the shade was called Glisten, but our lip, it's called Glisten Up. Right. So I was like, I can't have Glisten Up. Glisten.

[Sarah]

Right?

[Janine Lobel]

And it was just too obvious. So we named it, like, Belle.

[Sarah]

Cute.

[Kirby]

Oh, my God.

[Janine Lobel]

I can't remember.

[Sarah]

Like, Wedding Bell are one of those two products.

[Janine Lobel]

Your best sellers by is our number one seller.

[Sarah]

Okay, bye. Got it.

[Kirby]

Okay, perfect.

[Sarah]

Okay. Before we let you go, because we've reached our hour.

[Janine Lobel]

God, that went so fast.

[Sarah]

I know.

[Janine Lobel]

It really? Did I talk too much, probably.

[Sarah]

That's perfect.

[Kirby]

You to have more.

[Janine Lobel]

I know my brain.

[Sarah]

We always tell people, we're like, if you're not talking, we don't got a podcast. How do you feel now about Stila?

[Janine Lobel]

I feel nothing. Okay. I feel nothing. Isn't that weird? Like, they'll ask me to do something here and there, and I have some friends that still work there, work for me. And I'll be like, yeah, sure, no problem. Right. But I literally don't feel any. People are like, it was your baby. I was like, no, I have babies. And like I said, I was very clear on what was gonna happen when it happened. So I was like, whatever. I let it go so long ago. It just doesn't matter. I think they've. I wish they. You know, I wish them well. You know, I think they still make such great products, and I just feel like they need somebody to. They need a leader, you know?

[Sarah]

Yeah. That's what happens, though, with founders. When founders leave, the direction is just kind of. They're trying to figure it out.

[Kirby]

But it's amazing.

[Sarah]

Yeah, I was gonna say. Okay, before we go. Before we go.

[Janine Lobel]

I have to show the glams.

[Sarah]

So this is a W magazine from 2010. I collect magazines. I save them. By the way. This is, like the best issue of W of all time. There's so many incredible people in here. Look how beautiful Janine did Michelle Williams for this spread. And obviously Ryan Gosling's included too. But I was so obsessed with this makeup. I absolutely refused to get rid of this magazine. And then when I was doing research for this episode, I'm like, you've gotta be effing kidding me. Cause I was looking in the magazine to try to figure out who did the makeup, and for whatever reason, I couldn't find the credits. And then I realized it was you.

[Kirby]

Hello.

[Janine Lobel]

I know. It was so good.

[Sarah]

I brought a Sharpie so Janine can sign it and I can have it. Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited.

[Janine Lobel]

But she's so stunning. That was an epic. That was a great shoot.

[Sarah]

I wish we knew what you used on her.

[Janine Lobel]

This look. I wish I knew too, because it's not.

[Sarah]

It's, like, opaque.

[Janine Lobel]

Ish.

[Sarah]

But it has that kind of.

[Janine Lobel]

Well, it's not a blue red.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Janine Lobel]

I actually made a red very similar to that for Neen, because I felt like there's so many blue reds that are great, but more of a, like, 1950s Corally Red. I'll send it to you. Ooh, yeah.

[Kirby]

Beautiful.

[Sarah]

I mean, so stunning. I'm so excited.

[Janine Lobel]

Yay.

[Kirby]

Aw.

[Sarah]

Janine, thanks for coming on the pond.

[Janine Lobel]

Thanks for having me.

[Sarah]

We adore you. You're fabulous. You're so. You're like. You're like the rock star of the beauty industry.

[Kirby]

You really are.

[Sarah]

I really do just, like, want to go, like.

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

When I'm around you, it was just so much fun.

[Kirby]

Successful, Unbothered.

[Janine Lobel]

Queen. Unbothered. Let go.

[Kirby]

And let go.

[Sarah]

There we go. Janine, where can everybody find you? Online? And then where can everybody get Neen?

[Janine Lobel]

Our Instagram is weareneen, and our website is www.weareneen.com. and we're also in some blue Mercury. We're on Revolve. We're in a few Nordstrom's. We're around.

[Sarah]

I love this. And by the way, my favorite product. Well, granted, I haven't tried them all, but I do keep pretty. Pretty shiny with me.

[Janine Lobel]

Yeah, that one. It lasts forever. I know. I give away too much product. It's a problem. Back to the conscious consumption.

[Sarah]

Yes. The conscious consumer will love. So we'll link all of the products on our shop. My. Thank you, guys.

[Janine Lobel]

Thank you.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really?

[Janine Lobel]

Thanks.

[Capital One Bank Guy]

Capital One bank guy. What's in your wallet? Term supply. See capitalone.combank, capital One, NA Member, FDIC.