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- [00:00]
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- [00:32]
Kirby
Hi Glams, it's Kirby. You may know that Los Angeles is undergoing unprecedented fires and it's been ongoing since Tuesday. Sarah and I have been busy sharing resources and trying to make sure that people who have been displaced or have lost everything in these fires is going to get the help that they need. We felt that it was a little it just didn't feel right going on business as usual. You may have seen that we've been dark on social media and while we are thinking about the future because we are going to need a lot of help for months and years to come, we're thinking about ways beauty brands can get involved to help people and how we can use our collective network and resources to really help out so many people who have lost absolutely everything. We did want to make sure that we had an episode for you, but we also at the same time wanted to make sure that the guests that we had planned for the first guest episode of the year gets the shine that they deserve. It's a very exciting episode. It's a huge guest that we were so excited to get and we want to make sure that we are able to promote it the way that it deserves to be promoted. So we're going to actually push that episode to next Friday. In the meantime, we're going to re air an episode from 2021 when we first had Tower 28's Amy Liu the podcast. Amy created Tower 28 because she had sensitive skin and couldn't find anything to help. And I know that this episode turned on so many original listeners to Tower 28, and if you were a new listener, maybe this episode will turn you on to it. If you're not already obsessed with the brand. Amy actually was one of the people displaced from the Pacific Palisades. And as much as we know right now, her house is still standing, which is nothing short of a miracle. And even despite being affected by these fires, she is working hard bringing people together to create care packages and give a gifting suite of sorts. I don't even like calling it that because it's not.
- [02:40]
Sarah
It's.
- [02:40]
Kirby
That has a positive connotation, I guess, to it, and this is. Or a celebratory connotation to it. And this is definitely not something that people are celebrating, obviously. But I think it's admirable that even though Amy is going through this with her family, she's still finding ways to.
- [02:53]
Sarah
Mobilize and give back to the community.
- [02:56]
Kirby
Because that's just the type of person Amy Lou is. So we want to celebrate her, and we want to celebrate her brand. And you can listen to baby Kirby and Sarah. Our podcast was only two years old when we did this episode with Amy, and we hope you enjoy it. We'll be back with fresh episodes starting next Tuesday.
- [03:20]
Amy Liu
Hi, Kirby.
- [03:21]
Sarah
Hi, Sarah. Welcome to Los Angeles. Not only do we love this woman, but we love her brand. And it's an LA brand. Did you hear how I said that? L a la brand. Tower 28. Amy Lou, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. You know that Sarah and I both adore you just desperately. We love you so much. So we're thrilled to have you.
- [03:54]
Amy Liu
I mean, right. Right back at you. And I'm so thrilled. And as I told you earlier, I'm not only excited to be here because I love you guys, but also because I really am a listener and I'm a fan.
- [04:04]
Guest
So sweet. Also, I wanted to add that not only are Kirby and I fans, like, all of the glam Jelenos, all of our listeners, all of our readers, like, everyone is obsessed with your brand. So it's like a long time coming. Like, we had you on the pod. So thank you for making time for us.
- [04:23]
Amy Liu
Of course.
- [04:24]
Sarah
Lastly, before we, like, hop into the question, the first question, I have tower everywhere. Like, it's just on my desk if I need a touch up. I've got Beach Please in power hour. I've got Bronzino. I've got my lippies.
- [04:39]
Guest
I've got the SOS spray, like, in all my purses.
- [04:43]
Sarah
Same, same. I have the mini size and I keep the large size in my bathroom just because I never know, like, what's going to go down. But yeah, right now I'm wearing coconut in the lip jelly. The shine on lip jelly. So gorge. We are devout fans, Glam Jelenos. And obviously we've talked about Tower 28 on the podcast before. So this is not news to you, but it's always nice because when we have founders on, sometimes we have founders on because we know that they are like a specific expert. Amy is an expert, but we also love Amy and we also just love her brand. So we wanted to share more about the start and the beginnings of Tower 28 because we, Sarah and I met Amy. It must have been like months after you watched. It was not maybe two months. And we went to a coffee shop. Yeah, the coffee shop. Verve.
- [05:33]
Guest
Verve Verv on third. And we sat outside. Yes.
- [05:38]
Sarah
And I was just like, this is such a smart idea. And obviously Amy is an expert in so many ways, which you're going to hear about, but she has such a long history in the beauty world and the beauty industry that really helped her to develop and like separate her brand from everything else. So before we get into all the juicy goodness, Amy, we want to know what's on your face. Tell us everything. What are you loving right now?
- [06:09]
Amy Liu
So I am really a big fan of Mara products. I really love all of her cleansing oils, her sunscreen. She just launched this morning. I used her vitamin C too. She has a vitamin C oil as well. And I have also been recently interested in U Beauty has some really great products. So I've had a history of really sensitive skin. But now that my skin is actually a little bit more reliable and my skin barrier feels a little bit better, I've been kind of toying with more fun kind of products. Like she has a resurfacing compound that I think is Tina Craig's U Beauty, which I think is amazing. And I really like her super hydrator too. For a long time I was using just really, really benign products that didn't have a lot of actives in it because my skin was so sensitive. And now I feel like I'm able to start here and there. I mean, it doesn't always work, but sometimes I have had a few mishaps. But right now I'm pretty good. And then face wise, I have to tell you, everything else truly is Tower 28 right now. So I am wearing our very newest launch, Sunny Days, our Tinted SPF Foundation.
- [07:19]
Guest
What shade are you?
- [07:20]
Amy Liu
I am pch.
- [07:22]
Guest
You're pch. Okay.
- [07:24]
Amy Liu
In pch. So all the shade names are actually based off of sunny day spots in Los Angeles that you want to hang out. So whether it's a hiking spot, a beach, a Shopping area. And I happen to be a pch. And then I'm actually wearing Guide Beauty, which is a friend of mine who started that company. And she actually has. She was a makeup artist that I've worked with for a really long time, and she has Parkinson's. She's developed. And so she was looking for products that were a little bit easier to hold and control. And so I'm using her brow because I really love that product too.
- [07:55]
Sarah
Guide Beauty is an incredible brand. I actually featured them in, like, a breakthrough Birdie. Like change makers. Yeah. Because they really were leading the charge on, like, accessible beauty products, which I love. And then I have a special place in my heart for Mara because I used to work with Allison McNamara, the founder at Popsugar. She was the fashion host.
- [08:17]
Amy Liu
Yes.
- [08:18]
Sarah
And I was the beauty host. She was just the fashion girl. Like, yeah, anything fashion wise. She knew what was up. Went to New York Fashion Week a lot. But her dad is in the beauty industry, responsible for, like, making Misha Barton a Neutrogena face.
- [08:32]
Amy Liu
Oh, my gosh. I didn't know that.
- [08:34]
Sarah
Yeah. Has a background in the beauty world, so I love to see that she's thriving and doing so, so well with her beauty brand.
- [08:41]
Amy Liu
And her products are honestly so good.
- [08:43]
Guest
Too, and so beautiful, all of the packaging and everything. I'm curious when her sunscreen launched. I'm sure, obviously you were already developing yours. Like, were you, like, comparing, contrasting. I'm sure that you probably had, like, a million sunscreens on your desk before you launched yours. What do you like about the Mara one?
- [09:06]
Amy Liu
I have really dry skin, so I really like that it is a little bit more of an oil base, like all of her products, I think. And it really just feels. Feels great on my skin. So I'm someone who puts on moisturizer, and then I put on oil, and I do it day and night because I'm really dry. So I just love it for all those reasons. And it's still a mineral sunscreen, too. And then I still. I. Because it's an oil base, I have to let it kind of sink in a little bit before I can move on. And then I let it sink in. I'll wait a couple minutes, and then I'll go in with. With sunny days, I want to wear as much sunscreen as I can, so I'm trying to layer it if I can.
- [09:43]
Guest
That's good.
- [09:44]
Amy Liu
Good.
- [09:44]
Guest
Hot tip right there.
- [09:46]
Amy Liu
Hot tip. Right.
- [09:48]
Guest
Okay. Amy, as Kirby already mentioned, you have a stacked resume. Tower 28 is not your first foray into beauty. I'm not lying. I'm on your LinkedIn page right now, and I'm just like, show more experiences. It's like, oh, my goodness. L'Oreal, Smashbox, Kate Somerville, Josie Moran. Like, list goes on and on and on. So if you could take us back with you. When did you start in beauty? How did you get your start? Why were you interested in entering the beauty industry?
- [10:22]
Amy Liu
So I've always loved beauty. I was my first job at a college because I was trying to be a really responsible, I think Asian girl was. I worked in consulting, and that was kind of the job that it looked put on a resume, and I didn't love it necessarily. And I actually went back to business school, so I went to USC to get my mba, and my intention was to change careers. And while I was there, I thought I really wanted to do something that I could resonate with. I'm actually not a huge makeup junkie in the sense where I don't wear a ton of makeup. It's not like if you bring me into a Sephora, I can't hold myself back and I have to spend $500. Like, I'm not that kind of a person necessarily. Necessarily. But I really have always loved the way that women relate to beauty products and the confidence that they feel when they like the way that they look. There's something about it that I think is really empowering. And it's funny, having worked in the beauty industry for so long, so many people have said, you know, when things are stressful, they say, listen, guys, like, let's all calm down. We're not carrying cancer. And I do agree with that. But at the same time, I actually do think that the work that all of us do is really important because, like it or not, women are very affected, or people, I should say, not even women are really affected by, like, how good they feel. And their confidence is really attached to expression of the way they present themselves in the world. And so I think that was what really excited me about it. And in all the jobs that you've mentioned, I've really always made a point to not just work on the corporate side, but to go to events, to be in stores, to touch people, to give them, to do makeovers. Even though I'm not exactly a pro makeup artist, because I do think it really helps you understand how people relate to the products. And so my first job was at Maybelline, and then I went to. To Smashbox. Kate Somerville, Josie Marin. Like you said, in my job, if you look at the companies I went to, my roles got bigger, but the companies got smaller. And I think that was one thing that was really intentional, because what I wanted was to have a seat at the table. I really always wanted to. To do this, to have my own brand. When I was in business school, I majored in entrepreneurship and marketing, and I told myself that I was working for other people so I could learn on someone else's dime and all those things. But all of a sudden, you blink, and it's been a really long time. I had a friend who literally was like, you need to shit or get off the pot. Like, either you're going to do it and you'll take another job and then you'll never do it, or you should do it right now. So that was kind of what shifted things for me and made me decide to start Tower 28, because I felt like I had to, because this was. It was like now or never almost.
- [13:08]
Guest
You have obviously, like you said, you've worked for so many brands and, you know, you were VP of marketing, and then, you know, you shat and got off the pot and started your own brand. What has been the most, like, surprising part, or maybe the most difficult part about going from, like, working at a big corporate company to starting your own brand?
- [13:30]
Amy Liu
I would say two things. One, I didn't realize how much I didn't know, if I'm being honest. I thought because I had worked in the industry for a long time and I had the benefit of working at actually pretty small companies where there was a lot of visibility, and so even if I wasn't the one running operations, I thought I understood a lot of what that department did. And the truth is, it's really different to do a job than it is to be next to it. And there was so much there I didn't know. And I'm really grateful. I think one of the things that has worked really well for me is I'm really lucky that I have community and I have friends who've worked in the industry. So, you know, this is such a small example, but when I first started Tower 28 and I was working with my vendor, and they said, okay, can you send me over a bomb, a bill of materials? And I knew what a bomb was, but I literally didn't know what it looked like. I was like, does it look like an equation? Does it look like, you know, component plus fill plus pan? I didn't know what it was. And so I could text a friend and ask them, and they could screenshot something and Send it to me so I didn't look as silly as I might have, you know. So I do think a lot of it was just not knowing what you don't know. But also being, I think having the humility of not knowing it and being willing to ask people has really been an important thing. I think the other thing I didn't know is how unregulated the beauty industry is. I have worked at companies that were big enough that they were doing things the quote unquote right way. Right. So they were doing all the testing that was required and all of those types of things. And I think starting this on my own was the first time I really realized that it's a self regulated industry. Right. You're just doing it on your own. It's on your honor to some extent. Right. And you're maybe just worried that somebody else will come along and like the FDA will come or something, but there's really nobody policing it.
- [15:23]
Sarah
Do you want to elaborate a little bit on that? Because like, as a listener of Los Angeles, you know, we talk a lot about like fear mongering and things like that. Can you give us an example?
- [15:33]
Amy Liu
I even mean like very basic things, right? Very basic. On a very basic level, you have to include ingredients. There are brands where early days, like they maybe just don't know and they don't know that they have to put ingredients out there or like compatibility and stability. Like I was surprised that when we started making these products, my vendor said to me, I was like, okay, well so now it's time for compatibility and stability. And they're like, if you want to. It just isn't one of those things you have to do. Like there's nobody who is going to check to make sure that you did those things. And a lot of those things are. It's not even about fear mongering because it's not about just the, it's. It's more for you. It's quality things. Right. It's where you'll know if something is going to change or turn and if there's an issue. Those are the little steps that no one forces you to do. It's a de risking thing.
- [16:22]
Sarah
I think about it a lot in terms of like marketing terms. Right. So if somebody says something's like, I know the new buzzy marketing term is reef safe. It's like great. Like it doesn't contain that one ingredient that. Yeah, but you know, that's not a regulated term. Like the fda. The FDA is not going through and going, okay, yes, this Product actually is made without it. There was testing done to ensure they didn't include it or whatever it is. It's like the honor system, because, like, I mean, you have experience at all these incredible brands. You know, Josie Marin, like, truly one of the most influential natural type brands to, like, hit.
- [17:01]
Amy Liu
Certainly beauty.
- [17:02]
Sarah
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Just like a trailblazer in that space. Obviously, we're obsessed with Kate Somerville. We love her, and we love her products too. So you've had that experience working at those companies and knowing it, and then to hear that, like, even you going and starting your own brand and hearing, wait, what? Like, this is not just something that's blanket normal for everyone to do. It's. It's really interesting.
- [17:25]
Amy Liu
Yeah, definitely. And I feel really lucky that I had a chance to work with amazing brands that were doing things the right way, because I learned to do them.
- [17:33]
Sarah
The right way 100%. Okay. So as Sarah and you both said you shat and got off the pot, it's time to make your own brand.
- [17:43]
Amy Liu
And by the way, I'm so impressed that that was also, like, grammatically correct, like, past tense.
- [17:50]
Sarah
I love it. Sarah really did the damn thing. So you did this. You're like, it's time to start my own brand. You have sensitive skin, or you had very sensitive skin, and you decided, I'm gonna create this brand. What was the white space that you thought was missing? As someone who, like, doesn't wear a lot of makeup, but deals with eczema, walk us through your personal experience and how it developed into Tower 28.
- [18:15]
Amy Liu
So when I started working at Josie, specifically was around the time that I was also having babies. So I had young. I'd had one, and then I was pregnant with another when I was there. And maybe Sarah, you can relate to this, but when you get pregnant, you start thinking more about what you're eating, you start thinking more about what you're putting on your skin. And because I was working at a company that was really talking a lot about clean beauty, I started thinking more about. What does that mean? This is also back when clean beauty was synonymous with natural.
- [18:43]
Sarah
Yes. Okay.
- [18:44]
Amy Liu
The more natural something was, the. The more clean it was in a lot of ways. Right. And I actually tried to make the switch to clean, clean beauty. But I really. A lot of that product was actually pretty sensitizing for my skin because it had things like essential oils in it, plant botanicals that were more active, that type of a thing. And so it was one of the things that was really hard for me. Like, I wanted to be conscious of it. But I think also as somebody who has sensitive skin, you're even more thinking about like what you're putting on your skin. Because I didn't have like a perfect skin barrier. So I actually, I agree with you and what you're saying about like fear mongering and everything, where your skin barrier should be working for you, right? It should be keeping out things. That's the role of your skin. But if you have a broken skin barrier, like I often have in life, I am that much more conscious of one share what's going in, but also to just making it worse. Right? Because I don't want it getting aggravated when I think of it. It's a combination of wanting clean but also wanting products that are safe for my sensitive skin. And by safe, I really mean non irritating. Right? So that is really the difference to me. And then when I looked at products that were safe for sensitive skin, one, they definitely were not necessarily clean, but two, they also, a lot of them made me feel like a patient. A lot of it really looked very clinical in its approach, which there's nothing wrong with that, but if that's what you feel like is your only option. And for some people, sensitive skin is like a moment in time. They're like, I just, I'm going to take a oatmeal bath and then I'm going to get better and I'll go back to my regular routine. But for me, it's like a lifestyle, right? So it felt like I wanted something that was fun and cute and cool. It's like the kind of the way I think about eating. Right. Like, I also try to eat decently healthy, but then at the same time, I don't want it fed to me in a way that's like, I only get to eat kale, you know, that's not fun either.
- [20:37]
Sarah
No.
- [20:38]
Amy Liu
So, yeah, so that was basically one part of it. The other part of it was. So Tower 28 actually gets its name from a real lifeguard tower in Santa Monica at the intersection of Santa Monica and Venice. And part of that is I was born in Minnesota, My parents immigrated to the US from Taiwan. And I was born in like, I was raised in the 90s. I was growing up as a teenager in the 90s, and all of the aspirational imagery and the vibe was very much like Stussy and Hurley and all of these things that were super cool. But I didn't see myself in it to this day. Like, my husband is a surfer, I live on the west side, and I still don't see images of beach culture that look like the beach that I see when I go to the beach. And so one of the things I really wanted to do was create a brand that was representative of the LA that I know and love, which is really this big melting pot. And the beach specifically, to me, is this place where everybody gets to enjoy a healthy lifestyle. And you see literally every kind of person, specifically at Tower 28, because you see the people from Venice who are, you know, like, you can smell the weed in the air and it's like, really kind of more urban. And then in Santa Monica, you've got, like, your double jogger stroller or whatever. So I just love that it is every. Every type of person. So the white space in my mind, to answer your question, Kirby, really is the intersection of products that are not only clean, because I think that's just like, it's table stakes at this point. It's like, why wouldn't you just be clean enough? Vegan, cruelty free, all of those things that we want. But then in addition to that, can we make products for somebody like me where you can feel a little bit safer using it? Just in the sense that it's not going to irritate your skin. Somebody's already thought through making it non comedogenic. Someone's going to make sure that it doesn't irritate your skin and that you don't include these ingredients and still have it be high performance.
- [22:29]
Sarah
I love that you do have an emphasis on, like, fun, cheery products made for sensitive skin. Since we are talking about clean beauty, we would be remiss not to ask, what is your definition of clean beauty?
- [22:43]
Amy Liu
So I am not a chemist, I am not a doctor, and that's why I really do defer to experts. And so we use the Credo Beauty. No. No list. And we use the Clean at Sephora. No. No list to really guide us. And then in addition to that, we are the only beauty brand that 100% adheres the national Eczema Association's no. No list. Not because I think everybody has eczema like I do, but because as a consumer, I was using their list to figure out, like, which detergent I should buy and which cleaning products and those types of things. The more research I did, the more I realized that I felt like they were very astringent about it. But there are different seals out there that you can just promise to abide by and then pay, and then you can use the seal. This is not one of those so it is really pretty rigorous the way that they do things. And I just felt like one of the things that I've seen in the beauty industry over the years is a lot of people make products for themselves, which there's nothing wrong with that. I wanted to make products that were beyond just me. I, for instance, there are some essential oils that are totally fine for me. They don't give me a problem. But as a general rule, because so many people are allergic to essential oils, we just don't include them them. So I defer to these other third parties because I think of them as experts. Whether it is sustainability or it is, like I said, irritation from the National Eczema association or this idea of clean, we defer to, to the experts.
- [24:14]
Guest
So you mentioned, you know, and I completely agree with you, when I became pregnant, that was sort of the first time that I really was like, looking to ingredient labels, like, you know, obviously like applying it to myself versus just like writing about it and reporting on it. But you have always had sensitive skin, is that correct?
- [24:34]
Amy Liu
I would say since college.
- [24:35]
Guest
I have, yeah, since college. Can you tell us, like, what your experience has been like with eczema and like when you first sort of had like a flare up and what that was like and sort of like your journey to this point?
- [24:47]
Amy Liu
I mean, I think, and maybe you guys will relate to this, but when you work in the beauty industry, there is almost an expectation, or maybe it's one that you put on yourself, that you know how to wear makeup, that you have perfect skin and your friends think that you know the best of everything. For me, as somebody who was working in marketing, I was always going to Sephora and Nordstrom and bundles or whatever it was, and pitching them like, this is going to be our newest product. It's the best complexion boosting, etc. Etc. I had eczema on my hands and I had it on my face and I had it like around my eyes and it was really embarrassing. And it's chronic for me. So eczema is if you go to see a doctor. I think one of the things that's the most frustrating about it is that there's no cure. It's chronic. They don't know why you have it. And the only thing they can do is you can try lots of things. So as somebody who is Chinese American, tried a lot of different herbal remedies, so I went down that path. I also did acupuncture. I also tried all kinds of like allergy panels and shots and things like that. But the one thing that really helped the most was oral and topical steroids. And that is a really bad long term solution because every time you take one of these pills, you see the little stickers on the side of it that say, you know, warning, bone density loss, warning, all these things. And so you sort of feel like you're making this sacrifice in the moment for, okay, well, I have a wedding to go to this weekend. So I want my skin to look nice, so that's my short term gain, but in the long term, am I really doing something to my body? And so that was why it was so important to me that I made products that helped people feel a little bit more like they were just choosing something that wasn't going to make things worse. Really. Because I think the one thing that you don't want with makeup is, yes, you want it to make you look better, for sure, but the baseline is it can't make you worse. Right? Like, that's. That's like the number one thing. I mean. And I also went through periods of time where I literally didn't wear, like, anything but pants and long skirts because I used to get eczema on the back of my knees, and it would essentially, like, fade into something that looked like a bruise. When it wasn't, like, active and persistent. People would come up to me, strangers would come up to me and ask me, like, if I'd gotten, like, beaten or something. Like, it just was a weird thing for me. For me, it's skin, but for some people, it's different issues. But, like, whether it's stress or whatever, I think it comes out in different ways. So maybe for one person, it's your back. For. For me, it happened to be my. My skin. But yeah, I do think sensitive skin is something I really struggled with. And I think one of the things that I'm the most proud of now with Tower 20 is when I see people write to us or write testimonials about how our products have helped them or that they just feel comfortable using them. You know, they send before and afters. Like, if you look at our product pages specifically for sos, spray all of those before and afters, we didn't have the money to go get clinicals done and all these big fancy things that you can. You can do. So we really did source these from the community. These were people who really did write into us and tag us in social, and we wrote to them and said, oh, my God, can we use your before and after that you showed the world. So that is something that I'm really proud of because it's something I really struggled with myself.
- [28:17]
Sarah
Okay, so this leads in perfectly to our question about SOS spray. I feel like this is the hero product. This is like the piece de resistance of Tower 28. And I think it's truly a magical spray. I love it and I love the story behind it. Share with everyone, like what this spray, spray does and how you just stumbled upon it, because it's a really great story.
- [28:41]
Amy Liu
So it is an antibacterial and anti inflammatory spray. And the. The true story of how it happened was a friend of mine, her husband's a surfer, and he was sent some product as like an influencer basically, and he was using. And it had a hypochlorous acid in it, which is the active ingredient in sos and he was spraying it on his feet because he was getting reef cuts and things like that. And she was looking at the bottle and reading about hypochlorous acid. And she said to me, I think maybe you should try this. I think it might help your eczema. And so I started spraying it on my face and I started spraying it on my body because again, I get eczema in both places. And it didn't do anything actually for my face, but it was helping my body, which was interesting enough for me. And so I started reaching out to chemists and asking them if they knew about hypochlorous acid. And I found one who'd been working on hypochlorous acid for eight years. And I started talking to him about it and I was like, listen, I've been trying this other product, but it doesn't work on my face. It works. Works in my body. And he said, okay, well, why don't we play with it? Let's work on the PH level, let's work on the concentration, let's work on the formulation in general. And we found one that started working on me. And so we literally got 100 bottles made. And when I think about it now, I think like, I can't believe people were willing to try it. It was just like a white no name bottle. And the girls on my team, we just sent it to people that we knew. We had the most amazing response. Like one of the girls on my team, actually, she was interning at the time and she got a boob job and she had an incision and so she started spraying it on the incision. And you know, the stitches are supposed to just dissolve into your body, but sometimes your body kicks things out that are Foreign to it. Right. Like it makes your skin angry and then that can create infection and etc. And she was spraying SOS on it and the doctor literally called her and was like, what are you doing? I've never seen anybody heal so fast. And we just had these weird things where like a plastic surgeon reached out to me and she was like when we launched and she's like, hypochlorous acid. I've been irrigating with it during surgery. I think it's such an amazing product because it is antibacterial and it keeps things so clean in surgery. I would love you to sell it to me so I can give it to people post surgery to help them heal. And she also has a med spa, so post laser for any type of treatment like that. And so now she keeps in her back bar. And then she also sells it and she gives it away to her surgery patients as well. It's just this weird product that because it is antibacterial. The main thing is when you have any skin that has problem, like eczema, acne, anything, the thing that makes your skin worse is bacteria. Right. So we just want to keep it clean so your skin has the ability to heal itself. Our skin is actually pretty amazing. Your skin, if you get a cut, it wants to heal itself itself naturally. But if you get it dirty, that creates infection, et cetera, et cetera. So because it's going to be keeping it clean because it's antibacterial, it gives it the chance to soothe, to calm, and to help heal itself. So it's this weird, amazing product because it works for a multitude of uses, anything from people with like, tattoos and, you know, fresh earring piercings and things like that. So for me, it's eczema. For a lot of people, it's acne. Maskne has been this huge thing that we actually didn't even think about or know until we started seeing people write in the reviews about it. And then the sales of SOS, honestly in the last year have probably, I don't know, somewhere at least three, if not four times year over year.
- [32:12]
Sarah
Wow.
- [32:13]
Amy Liu
Just. And I think a lot of it is. We hear a lot of people talking about it for mask knees specifically too.
- [32:18]
Sarah
It's one of those things where, like, formulations matter when you're talking about how it worked for your body, but then it not. It wasn't happening to your face. Like, I feel like that's a perfect example. Formulations really do matter, you know, like, it can change big time.
- [32:34]
Amy Liu
Yeah. And ph. And all of those things make a difference.
- [32:38]
Sarah
100.
- [32:39]
Guest
I remember when we met after coffee and you presented this product to us, and Kirby and I were, like, freaking out over it. And I remember at the time, time, I was using a spray for Oliver, my dog, that had hypochlorous acid in it. And I was like, I should just be using the SOS Spray on it. So I definitely was. I used it on my C section scar. Like, I have this with me in every bag.
- [33:03]
Sarah
Yep.
- [33:03]
Guest
I'm sure you use it on your kids too, for, like, cuts.
- [33:07]
Amy Liu
I do. You know, I was gonna tell you, Sarah, my sister has a daughter who's the same age as Zoe, and she. She uses it on her daughter's diaper rash too.
- [33:16]
Guest
I feel like maybe you need to, like, baby line. Yeah. Or like, make one specific. Like a giant one for. For babies and kids.
- [33:24]
Sarah
Can you make a gallon size? Just make Sarah and I a gallon size so we can just like, refill all of our bottles that we have. Like, we want the back bar version.
- [33:33]
Amy Liu
We actually do have a jumbo. And spoiler alert, we're bringing it back for the holidays. It's a 16 ounce, so it's a size of four. Four regular bottles. So it's a sustainability story in addition to being a value.
- [33:46]
Guest
Oh, my God. Well, sign Kirby and I up on the wait list. We'll take five.
- [33:50]
Amy Liu
You know, just like, even on our own website, we have the data that shows that if somebody buys SOS there's a 50% chance of them coming back and buying a second bottle. And there's a 25% chance of them buying four bottles.
- [34:04]
Sarah
Wow, that's awesome.
- [34:06]
Amy Liu
4. The beauty industry, because all of us are really fickle. Right? Like, we're always. Everybody wants to try the newest thing. Those are actually pretty alarming, like, great numbers.
- [34:16]
Guest
Okay, let's talk about another amazing product that's new. Your sunscreen.
- [34:22]
Amy Liu
Woo. By the way, I listened to your whole glossary episode on sunscreen. I thought it was so good.
- [34:29]
Sarah
Thank you.
- [34:30]
Guest
Thank you very much, Amy. You're, like, really just gassing us up this morning.
- [34:36]
Amy Liu
Yeah.
- [34:37]
Guest
Let's talk about it. Congratulations. Sunny days. It is a broad spectrum SPF 30 tinted sunscreen. Tell us how long it took you to develop this. Who is this for? Walk us through the journey of creating a sunscreen is safe for people with sensitive skin.
- [34:57]
Sarah
Sarah, wait, you forgot a major part. There's four 14 shades. So it's a tinted sunscreen, but there's.
- [35:04]
Guest
14 shades, which is, like, unheard of. Yeah.
- [35:07]
Sarah
The Marquee. Hello. This is important moment. So. Yes, Amy. Sorry, I had to. I had to throw that.
- [35:14]
Guest
No, please. Thank you.
- [35:15]
Amy Liu
Thank you. Kirby. Yeah. So this is. I honestly, this is a long time coming. So we've been working on this product for. I'm not kidding, three years. We launched two and a half years ago. So it took me basically a year to develop the initial products. And so this was one of the products that we were searching for. I have tried and worked with so many different labs trying to find the perfect sunscreen. And we all know the issues with mineral sunscreen specifically. So mineral sunscreens tend to either be white cast, which is why when you're saying tinted is really difficult sometimes, because especially when you get into the deeper shades, nobody wants to have that, like, gray white cast situation, right? Because frankly, mineral sunscreen is white, right? Like titanium dioxide, zinc oxide. They are white in nature. And so it is really hard to formulate it that way because so often they can be white cast in an effort to not be so white cast and make it really easy to. Some of them can also become dewy and greasy, right? Because that's the other thing that happens with mineral sunscreens. Because, again, it's a rock, right? It's a mineral. So it is going to be sometimes really, like, chalky or hard to spread. So the things I was looking for specifically were, one, I really wanted mineral sunscreen because, yes, it's a clean thing. But the other part of it is you said this also on your glossary episode, but the chemical sunscreens can be more irritating for people with sensitive skin. And so I actually reached out to the National Eczema association really early to ask them, like, why don't you guys have any spf? They don't have any tinted colored spf. And they were saying, the thing is that mineral sunscreen, it's safer for sensitive skin. So they have never done this before because they knew it was so important, so many people had asked them for it. Because again, when you have problem skin, not only do you want to protect your skin, because if you have any issues like acne or eczema, where skin barrier is broken, yes, your skin is more sensitive, but also you're prone to more hyperpigmentation issues and scarring issues, right? So you actually do really want sunscreen, but the other thing is you want to cover it, right? You're more likely to have redness, you're more likely to have skin imperfections, and you really actually just want your skin to look better, not just Be protected. So when we started working with the National Eczema association, they basically gave us all of their guidelines, which are a huge nona list. Next, you have to do the testing third party. So on people who say they have sensitive skin, you have to do the irritation patch testing, and then you have to have a dermatologist review it. But then they also asked us to do photo allergy phototoxicity testing, which means that when you are wearing the product and it interacts with the sun, it doesn't create allergy on your skin, where people get kind of like the. The tingling and the itching type thing, which is something I didn't know about, because, frankly, I don't have that problem personally. So we did all of those things and actually are the first color product to ever get the National Eczema Association Seal of Approval guidelines, which I think is really exciting.
- [38:18]
Guest
What was it like developing the 14 shades? I mean, that was probably not easy.
- [38:25]
Amy Liu
Well, so not only was it not easy, but you have to remember we did this over in Pandemic in Zoom. So we worked with celebrity makeup artist Kiran Body, who does amazing people like Frida Pinto and Awkwafina, and Tessa Thompson, she just worked on Machine Gun Kelly. So she's an amazing artist, but she's also a person of color. And I think because she's had that background of working with really diverse skin tones, but also being a person of color herself, it was really important to her that we get those medium to dark shades really right. We started with the deepest shade and then worked down to the lightest shade in our development, as opposed to the other way around. And I think that really shows and it makes a difference. Another thing she's really passionate about is the undertones. And so especially in, like, you can be a medium tone, but if you are, you can have a yellow medium tone, you can have a more neutral one. And so I think that really made a difference that she was so vested in that part of it. And the thing about this product that I think is so cool is that oftentimes you get like a sunscreen product or you get a makeup like foundation product, but they're not necessarily good at both of those things. I think this product is really good at both. Meaning it is a. Clearly, it's a sunscreen. We've done all the testing, We've done FDA ISO testing, but as far as being a makeup, it's not just tinted. Because it's tinted, it really does give you some coverage, and it has a natural finish. So it's not dewy, it's not greasy, and it really does work. You can get, like, a medium coverage from it, even if you wanted to layer it up like that. So the other thing about the shades that is notable is that they're really flexible, too. So despite the fact that they do have some coverage, the shades are pretty flexible. So I can actually wear, like, two to even three, depending on if I wanted to be a little bit more tan or if I wanted to, like, wear it more in the center of my face. Right. So a little bit more brightening. But, yeah, the shades are really good.
- [40:22]
Sarah
Yes, they are. And obviously, like, the whole marketing campaign is super adorable. And I think also, everyone, we're going to see so many more brands coming out with tinted sunscreens in multiple shades. Like, gone are the days of, like, three colors of tinted.
- [40:40]
Amy Liu
Right.
- [40:41]
Sarah
Sunscreen. Right. Like, what I really love about you explaining this process is that y'all worked with the deepest shades first versus going light and then dark. Because I feel like oftentimes with formulations, it's like an afterthought when it comes to those deep, dark skin tones. And then that's why people are like, why do I look like Casper? Why do I look like I'm about to be buried in the ground? Like, this is not a good look for any person. And a big part of sunscreen, which Sarah and I talk about a lot, is you have to enjoy wearing it. You have to actually want to put it on your face. It can't be like a. Oh, gosh, I have to, you know, wipe this all over my face now. You have to literally want to put it on your body, on your person, so that you get the protection that you want to reapply, too. So I tip my hat to you, Amy. I'm really excited for you. Can you share, like, when this will be available for everyone to pick up?
- [41:32]
Amy Liu
Yeah. So we are launching it on October 12th in all stores, US with Sephora Credo Revolve, and at Kohl's, too. So we're now at Sephora at Kohl's and 200 stores, too.
- [41:44]
Sarah
Oh, we got a Sephora at Kohl's brand here.
- [41:48]
Amy Liu
And I should mention it is $30, too, which, yeah, is fairly reasonable for the Sephora customer.
- [41:56]
Guest
Totally.
- [41:57]
Sarah
100%. Sunscreens are expensive, y'all. Like, they're expensive.
- [42:01]
Amy Liu
They're expensive to make, too, by the way, and all the testing and all of the Everything that goes into it, but it's one. I'm really. I'm really proud of. I mean, we really did. The reason it took so long to make it, to be honest with, because there's a lot of testing involved. There were moments where we would have. For instance, we were done, and we were ready to go, and then we found out that there was an ingredient in it that was a derivative of coconut oil. It's a coconut alkane in it. You know, perception is reality. And because we had passed actually comedogenic testing, and so the lab was like, listen, I know your no, no list says no coconut oil. This isn't coconut oil. It's a derivative of it. And you pass comedogenic testing. And we were just like, you know what? I think we got to go back. Because despite what we say, people look at ingredients. Consumers are really smart now. And so we have to make sure that we're saying, you know, that the things that we're saying are really true, obviously, but also like that, that the receipts all match up.
- [42:57]
Sarah
Before we let you go, Amy, you know, having dealt with eczema most of your life, what advice would you give to people that are experiencing it and they feel like they can't find a way out? Like, how. How are you managing your eczema?
- [43:12]
Amy Liu
So, I mean, number one, I really wouldn't be able to say this if it wasn't true, but SOS really did help me. It helps my skin. It's not to say I never get eczema anymore, but it does help my skin be a little more consistent and reliable. So that has helped me, I think. The other thing I noticed is that food really makes a difference. So if I go crazy on sugar, even if it's like, honestly, like, wine, if I drink a lot of wine or if I eat a lot of sweets or junk food, I don't think it creates eczema, but I think it exacerbates it. The other thing that I notice is stress really does affect my skin. So if I'm not sleeping, if I'm stressed out, my skin shows it. I think I kind of mentioned this before, but I actually really do believe in that connection of, like, your body holding on to. To trauma, essentially. So whatever your issues are, that. That it will come out. Like, some people have, you know, digestion issues, some people have back issues. For me, it happens to be my skin. I do actually feel like working through your stuff helps, too. I don't know. I think part of it is I'm really. I'm. I'm a happy person, too. And I feel like at this stage, of my life. I'm oddly not as stressed in some ways, Even though I'm stressed in all of the work ways, I'm stressed. But they're all practical things, But I'm not stressed as a person, you know? And I think, like, politics and all that kind of stuff is not really a part of my life right now. And I think those were the days when I was. My skin was really reactive is when I felt that kind of stress.
- [44:45]
Sarah
Totally.
- [44:46]
Amy Liu
But now I'm having, like, a super soul Sundays podcast.
- [44:49]
Sarah
I know. I'm like, this is an ad for therapy. Get therapy, everyone. Get therapy.
- [44:55]
Guest
Yeah, we were talking about this, and we were saying that sometimes people use podcasts as therapy. But no, there's no replacement for real therapy, everyone.
- [45:03]
Amy Liu
Although, by the way, you know, our tagline is it's okay to be sensitive, so. Exactly.
- [45:10]
Guest
It is okay to be sensitive. Okay, so we ask our guests, like, a version of this question, but I'm going to change it a little bit, Kirby, if that's okay.
- [45:22]
Sarah
Oh, yes.
- [45:23]
Guest
What celebrity or famous person, if you found out that they used or were a fan of Tower 28, like, who would that be? Like, who would you absolutely freak out about?
- [45:33]
Amy Liu
I'm gonna sound so basic right now, but on the heels of the other part of our conversation just now, like, I. If it was Oprah, I would just. One, if she could use sunny days because it gave her no white cast and she really loved it. That would just be so amazing. But two, because I. I just adore her. I think she is all the things. Right?
- [45:55]
Guest
Yes. So I invited May Lin to your house for the Asian American girl club event. She was a famous chef, also celebrity chef. And I. I think I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to say this. She's like. She was Oprah's personal chef for really long, and Oprah and, like, has her, like, she spent, like, the summer with Oprah. I have a feeling she might be seeing Oprah again soon. So just make sure to send me some samples.
- [46:20]
Amy Liu
I literally just got chills. I literally just got chills.
- [46:25]
Guest
Make sure to send me some samples for Oprah so she could, like, you know, leave it next to the meal that she's preparing for her.
- [46:32]
Amy Liu
I literally am writing.
- [46:33]
Sarah
She's literally taking notes.
- [46:34]
Amy Liu
I'm literally.
- [46:36]
Sarah
She's like, send me extra sunny days and some SOS. Thanks in advance.
- [46:42]
Amy Liu
Oh, we're going to shade match Oprah. This is amazing. I mean, you never know. I think the world really is six degrees of separation, so you never know. And we've been really fortunate, you know, because we're a small company, because we don't have institutional funding. So much of it really, genuinely has been word of mouth. And I'm really committed to the fact that, like, our products just have to be good. We can't make mediocre products. There's too much product in the world right now.
- [47:08]
Sarah
It's like Los Angeles. We don't have institutional funding. We survive on word of mouth. We have to make good podcasts because there's so many out there.
- [47:18]
Amy Liu
I know. Hit that. Hit that subscribe button, guys. Print review.
- [47:23]
Sarah
Thank you, Amy.
- [47:24]
Guest
Like, and subscribe.
- [47:25]
Sarah
Wait, hold on. Can I just bring up something about Oprah? I love Oprah as well, Amy. On a sadder note, TikTok has now informed me that that were all just, like, crusty old people because they are now doing videos of, like, breaking down things that Oprah has done on her show. They're like, this is Oprah Winfrey. And she gave away cars to everybody in her audience.
- [47:48]
Amy Liu
What?
- [47:48]
Sarah
No, they're not 100%. It's like. And people were like, she gave. Like, I can't remember what car it was. It was like a Honda or a Hyundai or something, but people were like, she gave away Hondas or like, she gave away Hyundai's. I'm like, do you not understand that? It was truly.
- [48:03]
Amy Liu
Everywhere has you get a car and you get a car, and you.
- [48:08]
Sarah
Literally nobody had ever done this, and nobody has done it since. Yes. And, like, she was able to do it. It was $8 million worth of cars that she gave away. And she. She duped everyone that everyone thought that they were there to, like, celebrate teachers that were like, you know, needed uplifting things. And so 2012 people get up there and she's like, you're all getting a car and they freak out. And then she's like, and then one lucky person in the audience will also get a car. Open your boxes. And literally every single person had a key. Every single person.
- [48:37]
Amy Liu
Those people must have, like, just mind blown.
- [48:40]
Sarah
And it's crazy. Like, the comments are just like, wow. Like, that's the car that. I'm like, are you kidding me right now? Like, Gen Z, you have lost your minds.
- [48:50]
Guest
Parents, come get your kids.
- [48:52]
Sarah
Yeah. Collect yourselves. Anyways, I had to share that I.
- [48:55]
Guest
Am manifesting Sunny Days as one of Oprah's favorite things for 2021.
- [49:00]
Sarah
I was gonna say that has to happen.
- [49:03]
Amy Liu
Thank you. Let's make I believe in manifestation. So I'm with you.
- [49:07]
Guest
Let's make it happen.
- [49:08]
Sarah
Oprah. I love that woman, Oprah.
- [49:10]
Amy Liu
I just love that she's used her influence in such a positive way. And that's what I hoped to try and do a little bit of, too.
- [49:19]
Sarah
She's the only celebrity I would want to be president. End of story.
- [49:22]
Amy Liu
Right.
- [49:23]
Sarah
Like just run our country and like give people free cars. Amy thank you so much for joining us on Los Angeles today. Everybody, you can pick up Sunny Days starting October 12th. All Sephora stores credo revolve support Kohl's and then you can also find all of their products on Tower 28 website. Amy, where can we find you and the brand?
- [49:47]
Amy Liu
My handle is melou47am y l I u 47 and then tower28beauty is our handle for Instagram and for TikTok too.
- [50:11]
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