Why Korean Beauty is Always Ahead (With the Lipstick Lesbians)

Summary

Gloss Angeles Podcast Summary

Episode: Why Korean Beauty is Always Ahead (With the Lipstick Lesbians)
Date: August 22, 2025
Hosts: Kirbie Johnson & Sara Tan
Guests: Alexis Androulakis & Christina (The Lipstick Lesbians)

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the enduring influence, evolution, and innovative edge of Korean beauty (K-Beauty) in the global beauty industry. Hosts Kirbie and Sara are joined by Alexis and Christina, aka The Lipstick Lesbians—industry insiders and product development experts—to discuss why K-Beauty is always a step ahead, how it impacts Western markets, the cycles of K-Beauty trends (“waves”), and what the next phase might look like amid global changes and technological advances.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Reclaiming the "Lipstick Lesbians" Brand

• Alexis and Christina share how they've trademarked the term "Lipstick Lesbians" and reclaimed its visibility in the beauty space.
  • "Now you Google like ‘lipstick lesbians,’ we actually come up." (D, 01:27)

2. K-Beauty Origin Stories: Personal Product Memories

• Each guest and host recalls their first exposure to K-Beauty:
  • Alexis: Discusses being wowed by innovative textures in unbranded supplier samples and shouts out the Amore Pacific cushion as a formative branded experience. (E, 04:32–05:18)
  • Christina: First tried a "putty bouncy blush" recommended by Alexis; highlights the importance of influence in product discovery. (D/E, 05:35–05:56)
  • Sara: Bought into early K-Beauty through fun sheet masks, referencing the role of Soko Glam, Glow Recipe, and KCON. (C, 05:59–06:56)
  • Kirbie: Was most drawn by the 10-step skincare routine, which she learned was more marketing than reality. (B, 07:44–08:16)

3. Understanding the K-Beauty "Waves"

• Wave 1: Curiosity and novelty, rise of sheet masks and BB/CC "alphabet" creams (face masks in Walmart, Dr. Jart, Laneige at Sephora).
  • "Phase one was curiosity, intrigue." (E, 13:54)
• Wave 2: Virality and mass adoption driven by social/digital platforms (specifically TikTok), with compelling visual/texture experiences like COSRX snail mucin and Medicube cleansers.
  • "Phase two for me is virality." (E, 13:54)
• Wave 3 (Future): Integrating AI and globalization, with more crossovers between K-Beauty tech/textures and Western color cosmetics.
  • "I would say we're, like, closing on wave two, but I'm also thinking about wave three, because, like, AI." (E, 04:14)

4. What K-Beauty Does Better

• Texture Innovation: Korean brands are leaders in developing unique, sensorial skincare and color products (bouncy, milky, cushiony, etc.).
  • "K Beauty has always pioneered texture in skin." (E, 08:35)
• Ingredient Tech and Fermentation: Heightened focus on advanced formulations (biotech, fermentation) for potency and efficacy.
• Trendsetting in Lip Products: Korea excels at complex lip color formulations (emulsions, stains, glosses).
  • "Korea does amazing what we would call lip emulsions." (E, 10:26)

5. Virality, Social Media, and the Visual Hook

• Product virality is now a key consideration in development, with visual payoff (bounce, texture, transformation) dominating TikTok and Instagram.
  • "The vast majority of [top TikTok Shop] products are Korean beauty products, but they're all giving you a really compelling texture." (E, 16:17)
• Some product developers resist making "virality" the main focus; others embrace it out of necessity.
  • "There's ones that are just like, no, it's all about the virality because that's what sells." (D, 17:21)

6. Redefining Innovation

• The group discusses whether “innovation” is overused and what truly counts as new anymore; many “innovations” are just smart rebranding of K-Beauty staples.
  • "What does that actually mean [innovation]?" (C, 17:35)
  • "The Lip Sleeping Mask from Laneige had virality ... because we'd never heard of a sleeping mask." (B, 17:47)
• Example: Laneige Lip Sleeping Mask as a game-changer, both in product concept and viral appeal.

7. Laneige and the Importance of Adaptability

• Laneige is used as a case study for longevity and relevance: being responsive, bringing in new applicators, and creating collectable, aesthetically appealing products keeps them top-of-mind even decades after launch.
  • "Laneige…start out and you're a leader from the gate, it breeds this almost competitive nature in you and your soul." (E, 19:26)

8. Challenges of Cross-Cultural Success

• Not all K-Beauty brands succeed in the U.S. due to cultural and consumer differences; Laneige is credited with setting the blueprint for localizing product and marketing for American audiences.
  • "Not every K beauty brand has translated successfully to this market. No." (E, 21:14)
• Reference to PDRN (salmon sperm) and how trends “export” differently.

9. Glass Skin: Meaning and Misconceptions

• The concept of "glass skin" differs in Korea (celebration of natural skin, humidity-adapted finishes) versus the US (layered, glazed makeup effect); definitions and attainability can be fluid.
  • "Glass skin is a celebration of your skin being the hero of the show." (E, 24:18)

10. Barriers, Body Care, and Category Proliferation

• Barrier repair is key in both facial and body skincare; K-Beauty’s science-forward approach is spreading to body care, though US adoption lags behind.
  • "Your barrier can't be broken. Unhealthy skin is gonna be compromised skin." (E, 25:59–27:06)
• Korean body/hair care brands are starting to emerge in Western markets, e.g., Dr. Groot.

11. Formulation Leadership: Why Korea is Ahead

• Korean brands invest deeply in raw material science and biotech, which enables them to bring true breakthroughs to market earlier.
  • "Korea has a lead in raw material technology ... they can create products that nobody else can create." (E, 29:23)
• The tech trickles down globally as others license or replicate.

12. K-Beauty/Inspiration vs. Authenticity

• "Made in Korea" does not always equal K-Beauty; the group questions what counts as real K-Beauty vs. “K-Beauty inspired” products found in the U.S.
  • "How does one know what is actually K Beauty and what is not?" (B, 32:23)
• Example brands: POV Beauty, Glow Recipe, Violette_FR—each have different relationships to Korean formulation and branding.

13. Color Cosmetic Challenges: Shade Range and Inclusivity

• Even hit Korean products (e.g., tear tear cushion) lag in shade inclusivity and undertone accuracy, but progress is happening as they learn from Western demands.
  • "It is one thing to be shade inclusive and it's another thing to have amazing shades. And that's where we say K Beauty has a long way to go." (E, 38:49)

14. The Coming Wave: AI and the K-Beauty Boom

• AI will play a growing role in customization (shade matching, personalized recommendations) and possibly speed up innovation cycles; also helps address persistent challenges like undertone matching.
  • "Let's have AI be a part of ... our product development life cycle solving true consumer pain points." (D, 41:48)

15. Tariffs and Economic Shifts

• New tariffs on imports could slow the next K-Beauty wave in the U.S., leading to higher prices, less frequent launches, and possible closures; however, Korean brands may still thrive due to local logistics and volume.
  • "We're going to see a lot less launches, really." (E, 42:08)
  • "Brands are literally playing games with spreadsheets right now, assessing how much their profit margin changes and how much their profit then changes." (E, 43:23)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On reclaiming “Lipstick Lesbians”:
  • “We've reclaimed it. Yes. You know, visibility matters.” — Alexis & Christina (D/E, 01:59)
• On the importance of texture:
  • “K Beauty has always pioneered texture in skin.” — Alexis (E, 08:35)
• On virality as a strategy:
  • “This is strategy, baby. It's not even science in the most cases.” — Alexis (E, 16:17)
• On the meaning of glass skin:
  • “Glass skin is a celebration of your skin being the hero of the show… for me, it's about the 85 layers that we put on. That gives us the illusion of a glazed almost like we've put, you know, like we've lacquered our faces.” — Alexis (E, 24:18)
• On innovation trickling down globally:
  • “They can create products nobody else can create, or they can make them first, and then they can sell their technology two years later to another supplier ... you’ll see the innovation trickle down years later.” — Alexis (E, 29:29–30:00)
• On the shade-range challenge:
  • "It is one thing to be shade inclusive and it's another thing to have amazing shades. And that's where we say K Beauty has a long way to go." — Alexis (E, 38:49)
• On upcoming market shifts:
  • "Brands have to be cunning ... almost like lethal to stay relevant. And drop the Baskin Robbins so that everyone is excited again. So we don't forget about the original hero..." — Alexis (E, 44:17)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Lipstick Lesbians intro and branding: 01:06–01:35
• First K-Beauty product experiences: 04:25–06:56
• Defining the K-Beauty waves: 12:39–14:57
• Texture innovation and viral hooks: 08:30–10:26, 16:08–17:34
• What makes Laneige special: 19:21–22:30
• ‘Glass skin’ explained: 22:30–25:12
• Body care and fragrance differences: 27:18–29:12
• Raw materials and why Korea is ahead: 29:22–31:58
• Cross-cultural authenticity and "Made in Korea": 32:06–34:45
• Shade range and K-Beauty’s color expansion: 38:09–40:10
• AI and the future (Wave 3): 40:22–41:53
• Tariffs and economic impact: 41:53–44:52
• Hosts' wrap-up question for listeners: 45:11–45:47

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Listener Takeaway / Homework

• Question from Alexis:
  • “Are they… Who's going to be making, like, the K Beauty switch and who's going to stay loyal and tried and true once all these brands drop? ... Do we feel like we want this or do we wanna be more selective with who these retailers are bringing?” (E, 45:11)

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in skincare, cosmetic innovation, or the globalization of beauty trends. The guests and hosts deliver nuanced, entertaining insights on how K-Beauty rewrote the rules, why it keeps outpacing Western brands, and some of the pitfalls and complexities ahead as the market rapidly evolves.

Transcript

[A]

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really? Thanks. Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Term supply. See capitalone.com bank capital1.na member FDIC.

[B]

G L A M Los Angeles.

[C]

Hi, Kirby.

[B]

Hi, Sarah.

[C]

Welcome to Los Angeles. All right, we need no introduction.

[B]

We said this the last time too, but this. Truly, we need.

[C]

No, this is. But I feel like we manifested their return. Here they are.

[B]

With open arms. With open arms. Anytime. Come back. We said we wanted to talk to you for five more hours. This will only be one. But, you know, here we are.

[D]

Well, we're happy to be back. Thank you.

[B]

Welcome back to the Lipstick Lesbians.

[E]

Woo.

[B]

My God, I love that you have claimed that word.

[D]

I think so too.

[C]

Trademark.

[E]

We did. Yeah, we actually did.

[D]

Just went through the other week.

[B]

Oh, you know, I didn't know.

[D]

Now you know who takes care of. Of what.

[E]

Yeah, amazing.

[D]

Now you Google like lipstick lesbians. We actually come up.

[E]

We come up. It's the second thing.

[D]

It's kind of crazy. And then it, like, answers. And they're also an Instagram duo.

[E]

Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy.

[C]

Did you have to fight anyone? Like, did anyone own it? No.

[D]

It's truly yours. It was truly ours.

[B]

Love a smart business woman.

[D]

Although people don't know that. Like, we didn't invent the term. So like, sometimes like, lipstick lesbians come up on the show, the community messages, like, oh, my God, you were mentioned on the show.

[E]

And I'm like, wait, what?

[D]

Like, no, it's like, no, it was just the term.

[B]

You're like, there's just a term.

[E]

Lesbian.

[B]

Just a term.

[D]

But we've reclaimed it.

[E]

Yes.

[D]

You know, visibility matters.

[B]

Absolutely love this.

[E]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Well, this podcast is sponsored by our friends at laneige. And we know that you two both love laneige. And we do. We've been thinking a lot about K Beauty. We, Sarah and I have been in this industry for a very long time, Alexis. As have you, Christina.

[D]

I'm cabbage.

[B]

Cabbage mentioned Kimchi.

[E]

Cabbage to the kimchi.

[B]

Wait, wait, tell this, tell this, please. This is such a good analogy.

[D]

We were in a meeting the other day and, Alexis, we're trying to give the analogy of how I have, like, a very much consumer mindset because I'm not really a beauty. Girly. I can't say that now, because now I'm immersed. Right. And then Alexis loves her metaphors. She's talking about ketchup or pasta sauce.

[B]

In the last episode.

[D]

Like, she does this all the time. And she's, like, giving this analogy in this meeting with these beauty execs. She's like, christina is cabbage, and I am fermented kimchi.

[B]

She's in the thick of it. You're there.

[E]

You're getting drenched. I. Someone to have the visual of the jar and the sauce and, like, the cabbage being wilted. Because I'm so immersed.

[D]

Yes.

[E]

So I need someone to zoom out.

[C]

She's a fast track, though. Fast track to fermentation.

[E]

She is. Yeah.

[D]

No, it's funny, and I'm sure we'll get into this too, but it's just like, you know, there's so many products that I see people talk about, and I'm not really interested to, like, try them. Even, Like, I'm still, like, I'm. I'm more of a beauty consumer who's, like, interested to learn about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

But only if, like, my favorite influencers and my wife, being one of them, like, really gets excited. I get excited about a product that's my cabbageness.

[C]

So I love that we're talking about kimchi.

[E]

Well, it's Korean.

[B]

Hello.

[E]

I was like, very appropriate. No, I swear. I'm sitting here, though, and I'm like, how appropriate? Because kimchi. And this is something that people maybe don't always realize, but food is a huge driver in beauty, obviously. Fermenting ingredients, which we've seen more recently and much more, I would say, in a way that has captured interest. And because we've had advancements in biotech with fermenting ingredients, it increases potency. So the metaphor is applicable and educational.

[B]

It all comes together. Yeah. We've been doing this for a while. We saw this first wave of K Beauty that was put on my radar.

[C]

What, 2016, I think is probably around then.

[B]

Yes. And then now we're getting. What wave would you say this is, Alexis?

[E]

I would say we're, like, closing on wave two, but I'm also thinking about wave three, because, like, AI.

[B]

Yes. And we want to talk about that.

[E]

We'll get into wave three, but we gotta start with wave one.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[E]

We can't go to wave three yet.

[B]

So before we get into the thick of it, if you will, what was the first K Beauty product that you ever tried and did it live up to the hype?

[E]

My memory of K Beauty happened In a supplier setting, meaning I got introduced to a really bouncy texture for the first time. And it was brandless because no brand yet on the market had really had it prior to. The only thing I would say too that like really sticks out brand wise. Cause it wouldn't be fair for me. Not to mention a brand would be an Amore Pacific cushion.

[B]

Yes.

[E]

Nordstrom.

[C]

That was my favorite.

[E]

Garden State Plaza, three shades. And it had the most. Anytime I tried, like, I would go in a sequence of events, I'd be like, okay. Nars tinted moisturizer. Laura Mercier, right. She had her rosacea style product that wasn't the tinted moisturizer as this other product. And then bam. When those didn't work, I was going to the most soothing hydrating thing, which was a cushion. And it was Amore Pacific with a little bit of tint.

[B]

So do you remember your first K beauty product?

[D]

You know, since you said supplier? No, I do think it was a supplier product too. Because you had supplier products. Guys, I used to do my makeup with like products that weren't on the market. Like.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

So I think that was it. But then I was thinking about, like, first one really. It was that we.

[E]

It's like a putty bouncy blush. Not the mousse jar. It's just more putty esque.

[D]

Yes. And the only reason that I tried it is because Alexa was excited about it. This is what I mean. You know, I was just like, oh, this is interesting and different. Try this out. Like, oh, it's pigmented but it's sheer. But it blends. Yeah, it's putty.

[E]

Ooh.

[D]

I could like fingerprint, you know.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Like, it's cool.

[B]

Totally.

[C]

I feel like my first product that I used was a sheet mask. Like, I think I just like, I, you know, totally saw like Soko Glam and Glow recipe at the time when they were a retailer. Like, I was buying like snail mucin sheet mask. And then I remember also going to KCON in 20, 2015 or 2016. And this was like very early on. I mean, it was still obviously such a big presence. But now again we're talking about the second wave and how like also K Pop is just like has taken over.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

And actually KCON is coming up as we're recording this weekend and it is just like a K pop festival extravaganza. Incredible.

[B]

Olive Young is called. Yes.

[C]

In Olive Young la.

[E]

Right.

[D]

Are they here yet or no?

[C]

No, they're coming. But they are going to be at kcon.

[B]

Yes.

[E]

That makes so much Sense.

[B]

Yes. And I know our listeners are so excited about that and our community Slack people are. Would love to hear from people from all of young. I'm like, yeah, we gotta figure that.

[E]

Out once they get here.

[C]

Totally. But I just feel like the sheet mask was, like.

[E]

That is iconic and emblematic.

[C]

Exactly. Like, everyone was putting it on for an Instagram Snapchat selfie. Like, I just remember I actually developed.

[E]

Sheet masks based off of, like, what was happening. Like, there was the Jeju. It was this specific brand of sheet mask that was like this baby pink and blue, and everybody had it.

[D]

And I remember that.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

Come home with all these different types.

[E]

Oh, my God, I had a million shelves. But this was also, like, etude house. And the quirky packaging. Too cool for school.

[C]

Like an animal face on. Yes, yes, yes.

[E]

It was like. It was like. It was, like, kitschy almost. Yeah, it was so.

[C]

Which is why I think some people didn't really take K Beauty seriously. You know? Like, they. I feel like they were like, oh, it's like weird ingredients. But you're like, no, actual.

[E]

Right.

[B]

They're not weird.

[C]

They're not weird.

[E]

They work.

[B]

Yeah. And they're very effective. My first experience was actually not. I can't even remember a product. It was the 10 step skincare system that Charlotte Cho has since said. Like, this wasn't something that, like, everybody was doing. It was just something I was observing when I was living in Korea. And she really put it on the market. And I remember being like, okay, I have to do 10 steps. Like, have to have my essence and my serum and my. This moisturizer and then that moisturizer and the sunscreen. Yeah. The double cleanse. And now I think we've kind of reined it in.

[E]

Yeah, we have.

[B]

We've.

[E]

We've realized TikTok has edited it.

[B]

Yeah. We do not need all of this. You can still have a really effective skincare routine using great products. That is going to take you five minutes versus, like, 30.

[E]

Right.

[C]

So on that note, what do you think K Beauty does better than Western beauty?

[E]

Mm. This is so good. This question. I think it's about, first of all, like, let's say categorically skincare versus color. Zooming out. So K Beauty has always pioneered texture in skin, and that is something I think that just because they began as these pioneers, they're gonna continue to lead the market in a dominating way. That's not to say that they can't translate those textures into. Then what we're experiencing in color. We're. Which is where I feel Wave three is gonna start to take us more. Cause we're already seeing a little bit of these K beauty suppliers talking to, say, Italian suppliers.

[B]

Interesting.

[E]

It's really interesting. So stay tuned, everybody, for that, for sure. Basically, I call this the harmonization of globalization. Sometimes that is seen as a regulatory term. I don't mean that in the regulatory sense where you mean it as a metaphor. I mean it as a metaphor for melding cultures. And Better is subjective in terms of just where and how they are studying and the intensity with which and rigor with which they are evaluating and looking at ingredients. And I like to say, and I like to use this example with K Beauty and thinking about what they do best. Right. Cream Skin was one of the first ever milky toners to really hit the market. And today we've seen how many iterations of a milky toner. Now we're even seeing, Right. We saw Rhodes glazing milk. Then that translates into, like, going into more milky moisturizers. And Tatcha just launching a milky moisturizer inspired by milky toners. So it's going to continue, but you have to. We. We have to always remember where we started. And Sephora and laneige were really pinnacle in Wave two Lip Sleeping mask and cream skin, specifically to start, like, what we would consider the beginning of. In the U.S. in the U.S. yes.

[B]

Yeah, I think that's important too.

[E]

So, like, our awareness and then. And lip, like, Korea does amazing what we would call lip emulsions. Like these staining style products, they're more sophisticated than what we call anhydrous systems, meaning waterless. So, like, there's an anhydrous lip balm violet FR just launched. Right. Beautiful product. But again, like, what does Korea do? Quote, unquote, better, or Koreans like, these staining style emulsion products that are multifaceted and dimensional with a stain, with a gloss, with a just texture. Wow. So in color. Right. And it's by category, I'd say, like, lip is nuanced and exciting. Really exciting in Korea as a skincare. But in the west or in just in as far as the US Market, and just thinking about what we've loved and what I love, it's still color is dominated by, like, you know, the Italians, I would argue, are dominating in terms of product developing color.

[B]

Who is number one in your opinion? From the Italians?

[E]

Oh, my God. Like, supplier side? Yeah, this is.

[D]

No, that's a tough.

[E]

That's a tough one.

[B]

She can't answer that.

[E]

I can say that a lot of.

[D]

People Think there's only one supplier.

[E]

Let's say that.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

There isn't just one, there's at least 15. Incredible.

[D]

Yes.

[E]

And they all have as you all shop brands. Right. We say this all the time. We on the product development side, we're shopping the suppliers for our favorite product categories that they win in. Like there is a supplier based in Italy that does the best mascaras. There is a supplier. But then you'll still find a few at the others too. But you know where you're going. They're known for mascara because the baked powders or the baked powders. Another supplier is an owner of the baked category. And they're responsible for the best bakes on the market. And many do them. Right? Yeah. SEI products for one. Yeah. Of course, Hourglass has their own technology and you know, these are different. And just think, think about these minds, these, these magic minds coming together. And there's even famous Italian suppliers that have arms in Asia and they're building these other arms in Asia, in India to understand these other markets. And there's no better way to bring best in class products is when you're taking the best of from everyone and merging them.

[B]

So let's go back. Do you want to break down phase one and phase two for people that might be like, yeah, what are you talking about? Like me, like, I thought we were still on phase one.

[E]

Yeah, let us know. There was this moment of peak popularity where we saw the face masks were everywhere in Walmart and that would have trickled from starting with SOCO Glam. And there was the beginning in Sephora too. And laneige is in there too with their, their more of their face sleeping mask and their. That was important in phase one. Right. And if I'm giving these markers, Sephora also would have had like Dr. Jart phase one BB creams. So we as product developers called these like the ABC creams.

[B]

Yep.

[E]

We. And you all didn't know this. There was something called a dd, which was daily defense, which was another way of saying sunscreen. But I feel like the market at that point was like, I'm done with all these.

[B]

Maybe they need to bring it back.

[E]

Because daily defense, baby. Right?

[D]

People love sunscreen.

[E]

So for everyone out there that's product developing, Bring back the DDS double Ds.

[B]

Bring back the double Ds, baby. Do you.

[D]

Honestly, that's a really good idea.

[E]

Let's do it. You guys do it.

[C]

Are people still using BB creams, do you think?

[E]

I think so. If we think about like Erborian Phase 2, and here's the distinction again, to go back to the question and close the loop. Phase one was curiosity, intrigue. Phase two for me is virality. That's the biggest distinction. Because when you think about texture in skincare, visual hooks dominate. Medicube's cleanser, the snail mucin by cosrx. Those visual hooks and that gesture, these are viral. Click paint gold. And we can't talk about phase two without talking about virality and the impact that the video forward social commerce has had.

[B]

I was gonna say TikTok has to be a part of this huge. The biggest part, because, yeah, to your point. I remember there was a study that skincare was starting to creep up in 2017. Makeup was still obviously like the biggest category, but in terms of growth, 2017, skincare really was seeing a spike because of K Beauty.

[E]

Absolutely.

[B]

Then pandemic hits, everyone's at home, skincare starts booming, then people are getting on TikTok and then skincare just skyrocket.

[D]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah, now we're seeing that trickle down effect of, okay, we have these visual hooks. People now understand how to use TikTok in a very seductive way. If you want to put it like that. See things bouncing on the skin. You know, the. What was the one that Mikayla did? And it was the.

[E]

It looked like that's the Medicube and April skin. Same.

[B]

Yeah. I could not, I could not watch. I was like gagging. I was like, I do not want this on my face because it was, it was so much.

[E]

It's like taffy and bubble.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

You said you didn't like it. I watched that video.

[D]

It was funny. And then we put a commission. Link is if you want to experience a product. I don't like.

[B]

Different strokes for different folks. Right. Like, you know, some people may love it, but.

[E]

But that's a brand new texture. Just for clarification, born in Korea, incubated in Korea and literally becoming viral gold and like crazy, crazy insanely popular in the US market. The other thing that's interesting too, like if you're talking to the owners of a K beauty brand, like let's say we've had dinner with some brands and we won't name exactly who, but nobody's buying snail mucin Cosrx in Korea, but everyone in the US is. And my. You can go to JCPenney and find Cosrx snail mucin. Like, that's how viral this product was. So now I think it's a combination of the viral hooks. Fomo, Christina and I Talk about this all the time. The visual hooks. Rather not viral.

[D]

The visual viral.

[E]

The visual viral hooks. And just now it's like this abundant world that we've yet to explore. But how if we're all stopping for a second and we're like, okay, what's going to sell skincare on TikTok shop? Right. It's a white cream. How do you make. How much harder is it to make skincare content than it is to make makeup content? Right. And if you even look at the top selling products right now on TikTok Shop, the vast majority of them are Korean beauty products. But they're all giving you a really compelling texture. Texture story, visual hook. And this is strategy, baby. It's not even science in the most cases.

[D]

Well, that was something we spoke about too. When was it? Like 20, 18, 19. And it was like product development. Right. Do product developers start to shift their development process to think about virality in the process? And that was a big realization.

[B]

I think they have. Right.

[E]

I have too.

[D]

It's a philosophy. I think we've spoken to heads of PD that are like, no, that's. Fuck that. Can we curse? Yeah. They're like, I just want to create like the best amazing products.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

I'm not caring about virality. Like that's what matters, you know? And then there's ones that are just like, no, it's all about the virality because that's what sells.

[E]

So then. And then there's this other ugly word that we have to just bring up and then go. Is the word innovation?

[D]

Yes.

[E]

Ugly word.

[C]

What does that actually mean?

[E]

It is. I'm saying ugly and I love it. Polarity.

[B]

Yes. You're right.

[D]

Like what is innovative?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What is truly innovative anymore? We talk about this all the time. What I was going to say though is actually the lip. Sleeping mask.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

From laneige. I felt like it did have virality when it first launched because we'd never heard of a sleeping mask.

[E]

Exactly.

[B]

It was the name.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

And so.

[E]

And you wear it to bed. It's a ritual.

[B]

Yes. It's not a daytime thing.

[E]

It's the thing that everybody needs because they wake up with dry lips because you're dehydrated, because you've been sleeping and you haven't had any water.

[C]

And it launched during that time when it was like peak wave two.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And beauty is self care and you know, like take time to, you know, at night to take care of your lips. All that thing. Yeah. It was like the perfect timing and Right.

[E]

If you think about it, too. Like, what? Maybe. What did we have that was comparable? Vaseline, Rosebud Salve. Yeah, Rosebud Salve played out, though. There was nothing that was that rich and cushiony.

[B]

And it didn't come with the cute little applique.

[E]

Correct.

[B]

The little leaf applique.

[E]

The flavor and the jar. The aesthetic. Aesthetic of the jar. It's a jar, but it's so freaking cute.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Like, I want every color. They're collectibles now.

[C]

Yes. 100. Talking about the visuals.

[B]

Amy Poehler on her podcast has a moment where she's like, okay, lip balm time. And she busts out the lineage.

[C]

And like, almost every episode, I'm like, yeah.

[B]

Have they not worked with her? This needs to be product placement.

[D]

This is crazy.

[C]

Okay, so speaking of, you know, virality and these brands that are creating products, new textures, and they're popping up on TikTok shop. Let's go back to Laneige. They were founded in 1994 and they are still a household name and they're still innovating.

[E]

Super relevant. Still relevant, super viral.

[C]

How do you think they're able to do that?

[E]

Yeah, that's a great question, too. I think when you start out and you're a leader from the gate, it breeds this almost competitive nature in you and your soul. And I look at them and I think they've been really responsive, specifically to the consumer. So laneige, sleeping mask, viral wonder. They're not letting anyone forget that they are the dominators, even if you wanted to forget about them. Right. Then they're going to give you the glaze craze, and they're going to be like, oh, here you go. We dominate and lip. Here's the first to market. Doughnut tip, silicone applicator. It's fun, obsessive. Yeah. Right. And that, to me, shows that this is a company that is being responsive to the market. And that's really hard to do in a major retailer with the amount of doors that Sephora has. Right. And they're still doing it. And they're still being. They're. They're doing fun and interesting, dynamic things, too, from a content perspective that I, at least I feel like I've seen. And they're being responsive to the market. Right.

[B]

Do you think that's special because laneige is owned by Amore Pacific?

[E]

Correct.

[B]

Do you think it's not? Maybe special is the word, but different and innovative, if you will, because they are rooted in what the Korean trends are. And then they come here to the US and they also have to figure out what the, like, American consumer is going to gravitate towards. Like, I feel like, like you said, right now in Korea, people are flying to Korea to get pdrn.

[E]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

But everyone in Korea is like, why the hell do you care? Like, this is not. This is not sexy to us, like, anymore. This is old news here. It's like salmon sperm.

[E]

Get it on my.

[B]

Yeah. They were all freaking out over it.

[C]

So the skims mask.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Which you're like.

[B]

I'm like, hello.

[C]

They have been doing that for so long.

[B]

Totally Asia.

[E]

I'm like, yep.

[B]

Every plastic surgeon's office over there has had one of these to sell. Which is so crazy.

[E]

Yeah. Because. And this goes back to culture, the philosophy. And then you think about Amore Pacific, you think about Laneige. And they were first in the U.S. but they did. They did adapt the needs of the US market in a really strategic way, which has to happen for relevancy because not every K beauty brand has translated successfully to this market. No.

[B]

It's hard.

[E]

But I would argue laneige set the blueprint for everyone on how to and even create interest for these Korean brands and these Korean ingredient, you know, stories to take shape in the US Whether it's PDRN or whatever or milky toners that we're talking about. So somebody always has to be first and take risks. And yes, there'll be wins and there'll be losses, but contextually, now, where we are in the market, people love K Beauty. People have an expectation, the bar is set high. And I would argue as a nemore Pacific, the resources they have and the data that they have and the laneige experiences in Korea that you can have with the custom cushion. Don't be surprised if that doesn't make its way to the US in the next two years. Not that I have insider information, but if anyone's gonna do it, it's the people that have been gathering the data in Korea and crushing it. They're going to come here and they're going to replicate that. And I wouldn't be surprised.

[B]

So when you think of skincare, K Beauty skin care, you think of the glass skin.

[C]

What.

[B]

How do you achieve glass skin, in your opinion? What is the.

[D]

What is that giggle?

[B]

What is the process? Because to be completely honest, glass skin to me is not attainable. I am not Korean, I'm not Asian. I don't have these naturally high cheekbones. Like, you know, my. My beautiful Asian co host, Sarah. Like, no pores, but like.

[C]

But I think it's also up to interpretation, right? Like, to some people, it's not about the cheekbones or anything. It's about the actual texture or the way it looks.

[B]

The hydration versus the look.

[C]

Okay, but to your point, it, everyone has a different definition. So what does it mean to you?

[D]

Yeah, does it mean to you?

[E]

I'm looking at you because we've talked about glass skin and you I'm laughing that you don't remember my giggle. Also another, I guess mischievous is this, I think also another misconception is how the Korean just market views glass skin and why they even want it. And just like glass is see through, we're kind of setting the stage right, so you can see through glass. The skin is the hero of the story. But they also have a very particular climate in Korea where it's so humid. So this is why they're obsessed with kids cushions. And they're obsessed with like slurry foundations, slurry foundation powders for the humidity.

[C]

What do you mean slurry?

[E]

So slurries have like the water base as like they use water to mix.

[C]

Okay.

[E]

And then they inside that water phase and the slurries, you can add skincare ingredients where if it's just a straight up dry pressed powder, it's never as creamy. Right. And then just to like, what does glass skin mean to me? To me, it is the trend. This has now been translated to America where we have do glaze in Korea. Glass skin is a celebration of your skin being the hero of the show here. For me, it's about the 85 layers that we put on. That gives us the illusion of a glazed almost like we've put, you know, like we've lacquered our faces in a way that it looks shiny. But whereas they're more celebrating the actual skin.

[C]

So we shouldn't even really be calling it glass skin here.

[E]

We can call it whatever we want. Cause remember, this is made up language. It's marketing. Now the question, who's gonna come up with the next iteration of what glazing is? Cause glazing is from ceramics, tiles are glazed. All of this is connected. Should we go to a stone shop, a marble shop, and look at all the finishes? There's mats, there's glazing.

[D]

We actually went shopping. Cause we're renovating and we went to like a stone shop with like the marble and the stone. And it was just like, it felt like it was a revelation for you. She's like, wow. So like, I don't know what any of these things are, but this must be how people feel when they're walking.

[E]

Inside a Sephora, there's like five different finishes they can have. Yeah. And it's the same thing. So I just want a level set for everyone. That glazed glass, it's all relative. But not everyone can achieve glazed skin because not everyone can handle that. And the way I would go about achieving it is totally different because I have combo slash oily skin. If it's 100 degrees out of New York, I'm not gonna put on Fenty's Humus, which has, like, a beautiful glazy lacquered sheen. I can't do that to my skin right now, but I will in October when it gets a little dry and cold.

[B]

You know, do you think there's a commonality in barrier repair or keeping your skin barrier?

[E]

Totally.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

That's just skin health. Right, Right. From that perspective. And I think. I think about barrier repair especially because I have psoriasis, so. And I know even using, like, a barrier repair body, you know, product which is very a la Korea, like anything that I have that had actives in it in body care was. Was brands that came through Korea, like, some by me, which had, like, basically you're using like a salicylic acid face wash, but it's for your body. And that. That's been around for years. But they even have, like, glutathione in their body care. Right. And, you know, obviously niacinamide, but your barrier can't be broken. Unhealthy skin is gonna be compromised skin. And I know that everyone's talking about barrier, barrier, barrier, but it's true, like, when my skin barrier is compromised, whether it's my face or my skin, on my body, ironically, it's my chest that I have the most psoriasis in. I'm like, what does that mean? But we'll have to investigate that a different day. But at the point that I'm not taking care of, that's my psoriasis always flares and looks 10 times worse than it would if I'm using a barrier repairing product.

[C]

Do you think that we have incorporated the K beauty body trends or body care trends here in the US yet, or do you think that's maybe part of the next wave?

[B]

Because I feel like I don't.

[C]

I feel like I don't hear much.

[B]

On the k beauty side of things.

[C]

It's like my forehead to, like, your deplete. Yes. And that's it.

[E]

They have bought hair care has proliferated.

[B]

Yes.

[E]

Dr. Groot.

[B]

Dr. Groot. Dr. Groot.

[E]

Right. I think body care the reason that we're not seeing that is maybe the fragrances. Right? It's different. Ironically, there is a brand. I can't think of it. It's been in the shower. You've used it. I would know. You're talking about. I know you.

[D]

I use the same brand all the time.

[E]

Your experiment. But it's like a Jo Malone, BlackBerry and bay dupe. So they've taken like classic North American cult products, I think, that are really popular in Korea and put them into body wash as an example. And I know this brand is super popular in Korea. I can't remember it.

[B]

Which is interesting because fragrance here is a completely.

[C]

Well, it's totally different.

[E]

Exactly.

[C]

I personally like the fragrances that are in Korea and Asia.

[E]

They're more clean, they're more simple, fresh, which is.

[C]

Yeah, it's so interesting.

[E]

But. Yeah, but here, right. I mean, you go whether you're buying. I mean, I'm a whole body. I have like a body wash philosophy.

[B]

Wait, what?

[C]

Please.

[E]

It's just my favorite category. Is it? It so is.

[B]

Really?

[C]

What's your favorite body wash?

[E]

It's like a bit of a tie, but like, I. I have a lot.

[B]

Like, tell us.

[C]

There's a fire and you have to grab.

[E]

What do you grab? I mean, sicklar is probably like top. Top three. The bioma for barrier repair, though on body is incredible. And naturium, like Glow getter.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Litterium Glow Getter. Byoma Hydrating barrier repair. Siklar. The sandalwood or the orange bottle. Like those are.

[B]

I still haven't tried Siklar. I know, Me too.

[E]

It's like you have to.

[C]

They have.

[E]

Speaking of Korean beauty and North Americanizing it, Siklar has given us a milky toner for our body. Get into her.

[B]

Okay, let's. On that note, milky toners. So k. Beauty is often light years ahead when it comes to formulation tech. How does Korea operate? That makes sense. Them able to be a leader in skincare. Like, how do we even get to this point?

[C]

Why are they so ahead?

[E]

Raw materials. So. Right. Going back to my metaphors, we're restaurant owners. The four of us are about to open up the hottest LA restaurant you've ever seen. Right. I love this.

[C]

I'm picturing it.

[E]

We have to. We have to source our produce, our spices. Right. What oil are we going to cook with? Right. It's going to be different if we go to Greece and get, you know, the Greek olive oil or if we go to Sicily, it's a little spicier. The olive oil In Sicily. So the. The way that the whole system flows is that the raw materials, typically, and generally speaking, Korea has lead in raw material technology, whether they're fermenting ingredients or using biotech. Now, this goes back to culture. The Italians own food and fashion. I think that's easy to say. We can all maybe disagree offline in.

[C]

The comments, but the French people are like.

[E]

The French people are freaking out. But France is a part of that too. But Korea. France is fragrance, but. And fashion.

[D]

But yes, yes, yes.

[E]

At the end of the day, what we have to understand is that the Korean market is so obsessed with beauty and specifically skincare and specifically ingredients. So they have people creating raw materials that can do things that no other raw material, you know, suppliers can own, technologically speaking. Thus they can create products that nobody else can create, or they can make them first, and then they can sell their technology two years later to another supplier or someone will recreate that raw, and then the cycle will go on and you'll see the innovation trickle down years later. So eventually we'll see certain Korean beauty tech technologies evolve and maybe be sold to other suppliers besides, you know, and this goes back to licensing agreements, patents, and whether or not anyone can really own a raw material. Well, if they make it, they can, and that's important as a distinction. So cream skin, even like the nano emulsion and the use of a nano emulsion, that's coming from Korean technology. That is why when you spray that toner from laneige, it has the finest mist. It's micro droplets of oil that are releasing, and it's part of the construction of that. That's not to say that other toners on the market can't emulate that vibe, but it's came first. Like we just said with this example, it will always trickle down and the technology will always eventually make it to lower price points sometimes. But it doesn't change the fact that there was always a leader.

[C]

This might be a stupid question, but if you are someone that wants to start a skincare brand in 2025, are you going to the labs in Korea?

[E]

Wow, Christina. I remember what we were talking about right before this, and we were saying there was a couple really interesting points about what About Korean inspired technology.

[C]

Oh.

[E]

Or ingredients.

[D]

Yeah, it's interesting. Like, if it's made in Korea, does that mean it's K Beauty?

[E]

Right.

[B]

Okay. This is actually what I wanted to ask you guys. Like, how does one know what is actually K Beauty and what is not?

[D]

Right. I know it's a big conversation and it's the first time we're actually seeing brands starting to market Made in Korea as a selling point. Right. Like POV Beauty, for example. That's the first brand that I can think of. I don't know. I mean, look, I'm still cabbage, so I don't know.

[E]

I'm not saying that was a big one that. You know, we saw that marketing happen. We saw that marketing happen. And it said Korean inspired ingredients.

[D]

Yes. And I remember being in Italy actually talking to a Korean supplier, and I was like, what is Korean inspire?

[E]

We were in Bologna.

[D]

Yes, but what.

[C]

Yeah. What does that mean?

[D]

Well, it basically means that there is ingredients that are specifically going back to your understanding of raw materials. Right. That are.

[E]

They come from.

[D]

They come from Korea, but they metamorphosize. And it's like, it's Korean, but it's not necessarily.

[E]

Right. Like, for example, kimchi even is Korean, but that doesn't mean there aren't American brands selling kimchi and jars in Erewhon.

[D]

So it doesn't necessarily mean it's that. That raw material is made in Korea, but it's Korean inspired, but it still could be sent to Korea and then made in Korea. It's so complicated.

[B]

Yeah. So what constitutes a K beauty?

[E]

Right. And then wakon. And how do we, as the market, want to define K beauty? And then, okay, it's a brand that's made in Korea, that's, in this case, POV is owned by an American influencer. Right. And the question then. Or bounded by excuse me. And the question then becomes like, that's obviously not a K beauty brand. But another question, because since 2014, Glow Recipe has been around. Right. We know that Glow recipe exists, and we know that brands like Glow Recipe came on the heels of the, like, a lineage existing and having success. But philosophically, they're Korean, technically owned and operated in the U.S. it's this harmonization of globalization. But currently speaking, they're still honoring K beauty trends. But they're not a K beauty brand.

[C]

Right. Even in their marketing, they say K beauty inspired.

[D]

Right. But there's also, like, brands that come out with products that are very K beauty inspired that are made in Korea.

[E]

Right.

[D]

Like, you were just talking about the Violette. Frank, what is it?

[E]

The bathtub.

[D]

Right. The nectars.

[E]

Oh, yeah, exactly. The lip nectar.

[B]

Not the BOP nectar.

[D]

Not the bomb. Sorry. The lip nectars.

[C]

Right.

[D]

And then also House labs, too.

[E]

Right.

[D]

The foundation as well. Right. Made in Korea. Very K beauty in a sense, I think. I don't know.

[E]

Absolutely. It's. It's Korean inspired ingredients. There's fermented Arnica in House Labs Foundation. There's also incredible Korean technology, which is what I identified in. In our, like, third ever viral video that we made. And I knew it was signature Korean technology at that time, because I could understand with the texture and the grip and the slip. And I was like, this is not North America. Like, I just knew it was North America. It's not North America. It's not Italy. And I was in between Korea and Italy. You remember going back to that.

[D]

And then, to be fair, it's a manufacturer that has labs in Korea and Italy.

[E]

And the point really, to say all this, it's just the idea and the understanding here of all of this is to say that we were really like what we were trying to do. We didn't even know it at the time, but it was by accident. But we started flipping over these bottles two and a half years ago, and we were the first people to say, made in Korea or made in Italy or made in Italy or made in usa. And breaking down what that means.

[B]

Those are some of my favorite videos, too.

[E]

They're so fun. And the point is that today, this is, I think, why we can have this conversation. Because suddenly, is that how House Labs is not K Beauty?

[B]

No, no.

[E]

But they take the best innovation and the best technology from the best labs and create color cosmetics with them, which is fascinating.

[D]

And I think what your secret sauce is is being able to identify across the brands, like, who's actually doing, like, best in class stuff. Right? And that's when you get really excited. I've noticed. It's like. Oh, like Violette's new lips, right?

[E]

It's a great product.

[D]

Innovative and cool. And they're KBD inspired.

[E]

The lip nectar, right, Nyx, the lip stains, the Liquid IV. Such a K Beauty inspired product. There's vitamin B12 in it, right? There's. There's. I believe it's a very iv, which is also buzzy right now in America. But it's the staining tech and that. That traditional, like, glossy stain that we were talking about.

[B]

The staining tech is everywhere now. Kulsi has one. It's. I love it personally.

[E]

It's amazing.

[B]

It's amazing.

[E]

Lip nectar, like we said Violette, there's. There's a handful. Yeah.

[B]

I was gonna actually ask you what products are K Beauty inspired that some people may not realize, but I think you just gave us a bunch of them, all of them, which is amazing.

[E]

Glossy stains, milky toners, and look, sometimes it's like, obvious and it punches you in the face. And sometimes it's more of like a gentle nod, if you will. But I think that even the way product developers are going out to market right now has changed. They have to change. And I already am seeing the beginnings of what I was kind of predicting a little bit with less newness coming through the pipeline, however, from a North America brand perspective. But K Beauty is about to drop. All these brands are about to hit. Ulta and Sephora. At the end of summer, CVS has a K Beauty session.

[D]

Oh, yeah, we were in CVS the other day. Oh, my God.

[C]

Oh, my gosh. Cvs, like, we're like, what? I mean, they were one of the first places you could pick up a sheet mask. They were very ahead of the game.

[D]

That's so impressive what they've done.

[C]

Yeah, they're so blessed.

[B]

I love that you brought up tier tier, because obviously people went bonkers for that.

[E]

The cushion.

[B]

Cushion.

[E]

And this is a question, is cushion now officially adopted by the North American market? Who did that? Yeah, Dear tier.

[B]

Yep. I mean, yeah, in modern day, in.

[E]

Wave, we'll call it 3.5.

[B]

Like, for us, it was Amora Pacific.

[D]

Right, exactly.

[B]

Going back to your point, three shades.

[D]

Yes, exactly.

[C]

Even me, like, I was a die hard of that product, but when I was really tan in the summer, I could not find my shade and I am, I am light, you know? Yeah, it's insane.

[B]

Tier tier. You know, people were like, you sent me this product and it doesn't work. There's not enough shades here. So I feel like K Beauty also has a ways to go in terms of, like, the shade options. Like, it's, it's really not super inclusive, but I think they're getting there. I think they're realizing the US market wants us and now we have to expand.

[D]

Tier.

[C]

Tier comes in like, how many shades now?

[E]

It's a lot. Yeah. And it's. I also want to call out, when we think about this, though, we have to respect it is one thing to be shade inclusive and it's another thing to have amazing shades. And that's where we say K Beauty has a long way to go. Like, a lot of those shades in the tear tier assortment. I know. Ring a little orange.

[B]

Do they? Okay. I wasn't sure. I haven't tried.

[C]

I actually couldn't find my shade.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Really?

[E]

I had, I had like. And I'm not. This is no shade to tear tier. Like, but pun intended. We have, we have work to do and every brand can. Can arguably make their shade assortment better. But collectively, this is why K Beauty. You can master skincare, you can master the raws, you can master the technology. But if you can't deliver shades to the North American market, who cares about it more than anyone? You're going to be in trouble. And then these other. The. The loophole being the brands like Haus who crushed shade development in Korea, who gave us one of the darkest shades of the market right now, and it's Korean technology. Now they again are owning that burden. But you look at companies like laneige, I would love to see what, what kind of data they've collected, doing all these analysis season shade matches of people on site in their stores. It's probably incredible, right? One can only assume wave three, they're going to dominate with AI shade matching.

[B]

One can only assume AI shade matching. Okay. Please.

[C]

Laneige has a really good cushion compact.

[E]

That's the cushion that I'm talking about. Right.

[C]

Okay.

[E]

And they're. Do they do custom? If I'm not mistaken, they have like you can make your own lip mask in the store and I'm pretty sure you can make your own custom in Korea. In Korea, yeah. How.

[B]

Let's talk about AI. Since we're going there, we have to.

[E]

Blueprint of the skin.

[B]

What do you see happening in wave three that will incorporate AI or how are we seeing it now? The tail end of wave two?

[E]

I think right now we're seeing the beginning of like these. Almost like these doubles. Right. The agents, the AI agents, people are dabbling, people are trying to use it, people are experimenting in ads. So it's visual. And I think the focus in beauty will always be about filter or shade match. But I think that that's just so narrow in the viewpoint of how it could be used because I think we still have a lot to overcome in terms of how we can bring products to market. And I think with the tariffs, we're going to see less newness. We're going to see more brands promoting their existing SKUs. And then you're going to see like, almost like the Korean market almost may want to capitalize on that and be like, oh, we'll push all the newness because we're fine. Or you know, who knows how they're going to operate, but they're going to have distribution and a big footprint for the first time in a long time. So ultimately, what do I think is going to happen with AI? It's only going to make things speed up, hopefully. But my hope, and we're working on some fun stuff is that we can use it to make the improvements that we've yet to be able to solve in the last 20 years. Like how do I find my undertone? How do I find my right shade? But let's go deeper. Let's have AI be a part of.

[D]

Our product development life cycle solving true consumer pain points.

[B]

Use it for good.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

We have to ask about tariffs. I just saw Leah, you from Krave Beauty talk about how her business is going to be changing as a K beauty business with these tariffs. Like prices are going to increase.

[E]

Everyone this is going back to. People are going to hold on tight and the inventory that they have now that costs something can stay at the same price. But ultimately I think we're going to see a lot less launches, really.

[B]

So wave three will be slower.

[E]

Slower in America.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

More intentional. But I do believe that Korean companies. So the biggest reason that when you go to Korea and you get products that are essentially cost effective, they're not shipping them across, you know, country lines. They're coming right from a supplier and they're just going right to on it on a truck. In this case, things will be more expensive here, like period, even the Korean beauty products. But it depends on the volume that they're selling and because they're going to be in all of these stores. I still think from a volume perspective, if you're walking into Ulta and you want to buy tier, tier, maybe you're paying a little bit more than you would if you were in Korea, but it's still going to likely be cheaper than something would be that you're buying that maybe coming from, you know, that's a North American brand that maybe got made in China. We don't know yet. Yeah. Because we don't even know 100% like what the final ruling is going to be.

[B]

Yeah, the tariffs pushing it.

[E]

Yeah, it's a moving target. Imagine operating a business which, to be very clear, the number one concern as a business operator is here's your cost of goods, like it's your P and L. Here's your profit, here's your loss. Brands are literally playing games with spreadsheets right now, assessing how much their profit margin changes and how much their profit then changes. And a lot of brands are going to be in the red and maybe they were in the green before, but suddenly they're going to be in the red. Just from whatever happens and unfolds with these tariffs in the next few months.

[B]

Do you think we'll see more closures?

[E]

I definitely think we're going to see more closures. It's going to be like this cleanse. But again, we have the. We have this. All these brands coming in from Korea too. So it's. Can we actually sustain this many brands as consumers?

[B]

Right.

[E]

How much can we even process when we're going to buy a new lip product? I can think of 10 launches in the last month. Like, where do I even begin? Do I go to the original OG Lip sleeping mask or should I try Violette's new bomb that just launched that has the ceramic tip and the really cool marketing product development story? Brands have to be cunning. Like, they have to be like, almost like lethal to stay relevant. And drop the Baskin Robbins so that everyone is excited again. So we don't forget about the original hero. But everyone has to think of their new strategy.

[B]

It's a lot. It is amazing. Christina, Alexis, we love you both so much. We have so much fun watching you. We're thrilled you were able to make it back and hang out with us and talk all things K Beauty, because obviously our listeners love you.

[E]

But I think we can we leave the listeners with a question.

[D]

Yeah. What are you going to leave?

[C]

Homework.

[B]

By all means.

[E]

I feel, I just, I've been dying to know this and we've asked our community and I feel like your community is so, like, intellectually stimulated too, because you all are always doing deep dives. I really. Just from their perspective, are they. Who's going to be making, like, the K Beauty switch and who's going to stay loyal and tried and true once all these brands drop? Whether you're gonna keep, you know, and is it gonna force you out of brands that you maybe have been using? That's just a question. And into new brands. Like, are we excited by this? Do we feel like we want this or do we wanna be more selective with who these retailers are bringing? That's a question I bet they'll be.

[B]

Able to answer now that they've listened to this episode. They can decide for themselves.

[E]

Yay.

[C]

Yay.

[B]

Thank you both.

[E]

Thank you.

[C]

Thank you, laneige.

[E]

Thank you, laneige. Thank you, laneige.

[F]

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[A]

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