Why This Founder is Shutting Down Their Brand — And What It Says About Beauty in 2026

Summary

Gloss Angeles Podcast Summary

Episode: Why This Founder is Shutting Down Their Brand — And What It Says About Beauty in 2026
Hosts: Kirbie Johnson & Sara Tan
Guest: David Yi (Good Light founder)
Release Date: February 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the realities of building, sustaining, and ultimately sunsetting an indie beauty brand in the ultra-competitive 2026 beauty landscape. Co-hosts Kirbie Johnson and Sara Tan are joined by journalist, author, activist, and Good Light founder David Yi, who shares the emotional and strategic decision to close his K-Beauty-inspired, gender-inclusive brand. The conversation reflects on the rise and challenges of indie beauty, brand identity, investment realities, the pressures of retail, and the shifting future of the industry.

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Super WOIF Product Picks (00:51–21:32)

Armani Luminous Silk New Formulation (01:49–09:16)

• Sara: Raves about the reformulated Armani Luminous Silk Foundation, which now excludes cyclopentasiloxane due to EU bans, has a more hydrating, lighter texture, plus added niacinamide and glycerin. Expanded to 44 shades.
• Kirbie: Skeptical at first, but pleased no breakouts from niacinamide in this version:

  "Formulations do matter." (04:48 - Kirbie)

• Shade Matching: Both stress importance of getting shade matched; formula is more luminous; some issues with pilling with specific sunscreens.

Shark Pet Cleaner (09:37–12:47)

• Kirbie: Praises the cordless Shark Pet Cleaner for handling pet messes with ease, portability, and power, gifting a “game-changing” spot cleaner for rug and furniture mishaps.

Breville Barista Touch Espresso Maker (13:06–17:32)

• Sara: Calls it “my most beloved appliance or item in the house,” explaining it replaces costly café runs and brews barista-quality drinks at home.

  "If there was a fire, what would you take? I would take my espresso machine." (17:09 - Sara)

Urban Decay 24/7 Liquid Stick Liner (17:33–21:32)

• Both: Obsessed with its creamy retractable pencil, slanted tip, waterproof wear, fluffy brush, and shade range ("denim wash" periwinkle called an instant favorite).

  "Just truly a joy to use." (21:26 - Kirbie)

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Main Interview: Farewell to Good Light (22:05–42:48)

Setting the Stage: Why Good Light is Closing

• David Yi: Announces on-air the brand’s sunsetting, calling it a bittersweet but ultimately celebratory decision.

  “We are sunsetting...I take it as a celebration. We're able to do so much throughout the years.” (22:53)

Good Light’s Legacy

• Groundbreaking Ulta’s first gender-inclusive K-Beauty brand.
• Activism: Advocacy for LGBTQIA+ and Asian American representation in beauty.
• Proud achievements: Pushed boundaries on gender, initiated creative partnerships (Netflix collabs, Biden Beauty), and trademarked the phrase “beauty beyond the binary.”

Hard Realities of Indie Beauty (26:00–36:12)

• Turning Point:

  "Two years ago, my co-founder...left. I've never operated a company before...we were never in the black. But in the two years we 3x the business...but we just had no marketing budget." (26:00 - David)

• Survival Mode: Operating with a tiny team, stretched energy, and minimal cash—despite briefly reaching profitability.
• Nuclear K-Beauty Wave:

  “K-Beauty was in its third wave...It was a tsunami...we just could not compete.” (26:54 - David)

• Raising Capital:

  “More money, more problems, and you cannot take any last dime if you’re not going to use it in a very careful way.” (28:31 - David)

• Cautious Investment: Stresses choosing investors who truly buy into your mission.
• Retail Reality Check:

  “There's one thing to get in the door and another thing to stay and remain in the door. It's super competitive...for you to have a tiny bit of space, you need to push it on your own.” (31:39 - David)

Industry Economics in 2026

• Cost of Entry:

  “$10 million is going to help you...That is just table stakes right now.” (34:52 - David)

• Where the Money Goes: R&D gets top priority; "Have the best beauty products."
• Marketing/Influencer spend still key for discoverability and repeat customers.

PR in the Modern Age

• DIY PR:

  "You can do it...You have your own channels on TikTok and Instagram, social media. PR maybe to launch your product, but you don’t need that expenditure anymore.” (36:37 - David)

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Emotional Reflections & Advice (38:03–41:12)

• Guidance for Struggling Founders:

  “Keep going until you can’t...Don’t be afraid to say, 'my story, I said what I need to say.'” (38:03 - David)

• Activism Impact: Redefining the beauty aisle as genderless, breaking silos.

  “I always question why skincare products were so gendered...now, if you look at beauty aisles, they’re all just a beauty aisle, a grooming aisle.” (39:20 - David)

• Pride & Representation:

  “I want to have some self-love for myself too. But I think I’m most proud of representing the intersection of identities...and say, this is who we are and we're gonna have the audacity to use our voice and to shine.” (39:47 - David)

What’s Next for David Yi?

• Planning to rest and write fiction. Wants to “be creative and free.” (41:12)
• Listeners encouraged to stock up on Good Light at Goodlight World and Ulta before inventory sells out.

  “I would say stock up because this will be the last time.” (41:47 - David)

Closing Sentiment

• Sara and Kirbie express deep respect and emotional support for David’s achievements and voice in the industry.

  "Thank you for coming on and sharing your story and also for everything you've done." (42:05 - Sara)

• David assures he’ll remain “beauty adjacent” and won’t disappear from the wider industry conversation.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• David Yi on Resilience:

  “Even in this deep despair...the moth always finds the light.” (25:23)

• On Legacy:

  “We did slam doors open...we did challenge people to think about gender and gender roles in a different way.” (25:24–25:49)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |---------|------------| | Super WOIF Product Picks | 00:51–21:32 | | Armani Luminous Silk Foundation | 01:49–09:16 | | Shark Pet Cleaner | 09:37–12:47 | | Breville Espresso Maker | 13:06–17:32 | | Urban Decay Liquid Stick Liner | 17:33–21:32 | | David Yi Interview Begins | 22:05 | | Decision to Close Brand | 22:53–26:00 | | Indie Brand Economics/Ulta Experience | 26:00–36:12 | | Indie/PR, Capital, Market Realities | 34:35–37:48 | | Advice to Founders, Activism | 38:03–41:12 | | Final Reflections, What’s Next | 41:01–42:48 |

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Tone, Language & Style

Throughout, the hosts and David maintain an open, supportive, and reflective tone. The episode balances practical industry advice with heartfelt personal reflection, using language that is both journalistic and conversational, inviting listeners into both the challenges and the emotional reality of indie beauty entrepreneurship.

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For Listeners

• This episode is a must-listen if you want a candid, expert-level look at the state of indie beauty, the pressures of modern brand-building, how retail and capital create new barriers, and what it means to “end well.”
• For founders and beauty lovers alike, David Yi’s journey offers perspective, encouragement, and a sense of how activism and business can intersect—while also showing just how tough and unpredictable the industry remains.

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Transcript

[A]

Why choose a sleep number Smart bed. Can I make my site softer?

[B]

Can I make my site firmer? Can we sleep cooler?

[A]

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[B]

G l a m los angeles.

[C]

Hi, kirby.

[A]

Hi, sarah.

[C]

Welcome to los angeles.

[A]

All right, it's super woif.

[C]

I love a super wife.

[A]

Y' all love WOIF in general.

[C]

I mean, we were really smart to come up with that.

[A]

Yeah. What's on your face? If you're new here, what's on your face? But it doesn't have to be on your face. It's where we wax poetic about the products that we consistently use and love.

[C]

It could be Dawn Power Wash.

[A]

It could be Dawn Powerwash. Okay. So, yes, obviously, talk about beauty, but some days you're like, dawn Power Wash really killed it for me during the pandemic. And it's actually shocking to me that dawn never reached. They did send me a bunch of product, but, like, felt like there should have been a bigger moment with dawn

[C]

power washing me 100%. It's really. There is no product like it.

[A]

We do love Dawn Power Wash around

[C]

here to wash your makeup, brushes, everything. It's amazing.

[A]

So today's Super WOIF is presented by our friends at Macy's. Of course, they're one of our partners. But we own these products. Yes. We bought them with our own hard earned dollars, so we truly stand behind them.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

But you can also shop them at Macy's.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

All right, Sarah, you're going to kick things off with a beauty pick. What is on your list?

[C]

Macy's has an incredible selection of beauty products, as we all know. But I wanted to shout out a new product. It's technically a new formulation. It is a new version of a beloved product. And I am honestly such a huge fan of this new and improved version. So the Armani Luminous Silk Foundation. I feel like the beauty people who are listening to the podcast know if you know. You know, it's also like every makeup artist always says, it's part of their kit. Right.

[A]

This was one of my holy grails when we talked about it last year. And I not only use the foundation, but I would use the concealer all over my face as well. Concealers are so good, obsessed with this product. So I was very skeptical of this reformulation.

[C]

You and a lot of people. There was a lot of drama around why they needed to change the formulation, because if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And the old version was good for many, many reasons. However, because the EU banned this one ingredient, cyclopenticiloxane.

[A]

Congratulations, you killed that.

[C]

Thank you so much. D5, they had to change the formula across the board. So instead of keeping it the same, which I do wonder, why they didn't try to keep it more like the original, because it is very different.

[A]

It is not the same as the original.

[C]

It is not. So this new version feature features a liquid silk technology, so it is designed to blend even more seamlessly into the skin to give this second skin feel, which Kirby and I have talked a lot about. These new foundations that are coming out lately, and I think that this is this trend where everyone wants a lighter coverage. They want it to be a little bit more blendable. They want it to look like their skin, but better. And I don't know if that's because that's, like, what Gen Z is like, looking for, or if it's like, you know, us in millennials are getting into

[A]

their 40s and we can't have the heaviness anymore.

[C]

We can't have it looked caked on. That is like the opposite of what we want. So this really is that. Like, when I put it on for the first time, it felt so hydrating on my skin, and it really felt just like light and bright. And they added two other ingredients, niacinamide and glycerin, which helps with that hydration and brightening benefits. Some of you listening are probably like, oh, I don't really like niacinamide in my foundation. It makes me break out. Kirby being one of them. You said you did not have any issues with that.

[A]

I didn't have issues with this formulation. There are so many formulations that include foundation, specifically niacinamide that I have not been able to use. Even though I love the way it looks, it breaks me out.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

I have not had that issue with this particular formulation.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

So formulations do matter.

[C]

Yes. I think it's because they put just the right amount of niacinamide. So I'm really happy to hear that. I was actually very concerned when I saw that they were adding that. I was like, oh, no, Kirby's not going to be able to use it. It's a thinner. It's more hydrating. I wouldn't call it a skin tint.

[A]

No, it's a foundation.

[C]

It's a foundation. But it's definitely on the lighter side. It is buildable, which I love. One of the best things about this new formulation, though, is the shade range. Yes.

[A]

Because for years, this was my holy grail, and Sarah could never find her shade.

[C]

I'd have to mix two different shades together. Like, the undertones just were not working for me. So they expanded the shade range. There are 44 shades with 18 new shades. I am a true six. When Kirby and I were in Vegas, Armani beauty was very generous, and they set us up with makeup artists, and she used shade 6 on me, and she was like, well, this is like, a perfect, perfect match for you. And what is your shade?

[A]

I was a five originally. Okay. I'm still a five, I believe, because they gave me a new shade, 5.15, and I do think it leans more yellow on me.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

So I am going to get a five, because that's what my concealer is.

[B]

Right.

[A]

If you look in my drawer right now, all of my old Armani luminous silk. I have five bottles of it, and I have six of the concealers, highlighters, blushes. I love this line.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's clear. But my ranges are like 4.75 to, like 5.8.

[C]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

In the old formula.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I'm really curious how this is going to work out for me with the new formula. They did shade match me because I went to the Grove. Did you see this? They took over the Grove.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And it wasn't just that pop up the box. It was an entire store that they took over. And if you waited in line and got shade matched, they would give you a free full size bottle of Armani luminous silk reformulated.

[C]

That's amazing. That's $69 value.

[A]

The line was three hours long, but people walked away with a $70 foundation and the right shade of it.

[C]

Right.

[A]

But I went. And initially, I was a little bit, I think, tanner. So when they put it on, they suggested 5.15. Now looking, I think I am truly still 5.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I say this again. It's not equivalent. Like, they're not the same. It's apples to oranges now, in my opinion. But I do like it. I do like it.

[C]

Yeah. I think it's like if you have the right expectations. So this new formula is much more luminous, radiant. The old one was a little bit more satin finish.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

So do you feel like you have to set it with powder?

[A]

I have to Set it way more. I loved the satin finish of the original, so that was like, a pain point for me with this one. But I do love that they have expanded the shade range, these 18 new shades. They added more undertones, so there's more blue and green pigments to really take, like, the orange and yellow, like, the warmth out of some of these shades. Shades, which is great. And there's, like, you said, 44 shades. So I feel like if they knew they had to take out an ingredient and redo it anyways, they're kind of just moving forward with the technology that they have available.

[C]

Exactly. Yeah. And I really found that for me, someone with dry skin, like, it was really hydrating and it lasted all day long, which is not something that you usually find with formulas that are hydrating. Right. Your face eats it up. But I found that it lasted long, all day long. I mean, I had to touch up a little bit, but I just. I really loved this product. You had something, though.

[A]

I was going to ask, did you have any pilling?

[C]

I did not have any pilling.

[A]

Okay. I experienced pilling with this. I have a La Roche Posay product that I bought when I was in Tahiti that works for dark spots, and I'm obsessed with it. It's obviously formulated differently than the ones we have here. When I used this version, on top of that, the pilling was. It looked like my skin was coming off. So when I've used it without sunscreen, it. It's great. But I would just be careful what sunscreen you use. Yeah. And also, like, test this out ahead of time.

[C]

Right.

[A]

If you're going to work and then your skin starts looking like it's peeling off, that's not a fun experience.

[C]

Totally.

[A]

Definitely test it out and see how it works with the sunscreen that you use.

[C]

Yes. On that note, definitely go to Macy's and get shade matched, too, because it's not the same. You're not going to be the same color that you were in the old formula.

[A]

In some. In some ways.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. You might be, like, within that little window. 5.55.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Just go to Macy's, go to the counter and get shade matched.

[A]

So a reformulation that I think actually is working for the better for a brand.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Not like glossier. When they reformulated that one. Balm.com right. To be vegan and all that stuff. And then everyone lost their minds. Like, give us the lanolin. And then they did. And then they were smart.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Love it. For them. I am obsessed with this.

[C]

I feel Like, I need this now.

[A]

You. Sarah, I am shocked that you don't have this because I am so obsessed with this. So it's the shark pet cleaner barfing.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. So Quinn has acid reflux. Quinn is my dog, if you're new here. And she was. She's my daughter, and she was barfing on my new pink rug because of this acid reflux, which breaks my heart, like. And of course, she's a diva. We have to accommodate her to make sure she doesn't have the acid reflux and barf. Whatever. But I was like, I'm so tired of taking my Bissell out of my front closet. It's huge.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't have that much square footage of rug that needs to be cleaned because I have hardwood floors. You can hold it with your hands.

[C]

Green one.

[A]

It's a blue one.

[C]

Oh, okay. Okay, okay.

[A]

But it's still pretty large.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So I don't really need.

[C]

Yeah. It's not handy when I just need

[A]

to clean up her little barfy Ruxpin moment on the floor. Right. So I love that. I put boo in here. Like, boo. So I kept getting served ads for this shark pet cleaner on TikTok, and I was like, oh, my God. It's like the heavens have opened up and the sun is shining down. I've needed this. Yeah, it is perfect. My mom heard me talking about this so much, she just bought it for me because I was like, I'm gonna buy this shark pet cleaner. And then she just called me, like, three hours after our conversation. She's like, it's coming to your house. I bought it for you. So this was a gift. I didn't buy this with my own money, but this is a gift from my mother. Okay. Okay. It's portable and so easy to use. So the main factor here is that it's cordless. It's small enough that it will get these spots. It really is a spot cleaner. You don't have to plug it in. I mean, you plug it in to charge it, but you don't have to plug it in. You don't have a huge hose. It looks like a dirt devil mini size.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That you just take it out of its little caddy. They give you this solution that's very, very powerful that you put in it, and you suck up whatever you need. And truly, it just changes the game. I cannot say better things about this. I wrote here necessary for puppies and children.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Or dogs that look like puppies.

[C]

Yes. Or old dogs who keep pooping all over the house because they don't know their poop. I know.

[A]

Business now. All over the place.

[C]

So sorry, Ollie.

[A]

So rude.

[C]

I'm so sorry. But no, I have the Bissell green machine or whatever, the other one that's viral, but it is really big. And then once I clean up a spot, I have to then clean up the machine.

[A]

Right. The cleaning of the machine is the biggest deterrent for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, there have been. I've never done this, but there have been times where, like, is the barf really that noticeable? Like, is the barf spot.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That noticeable? No, you got to clean it up. But yeah, because then it's like, okay, you got to empty the water. It's just a whole ordeal. This just makes it so easy, so convenient. You can use it in your car if you need it. Yeah. And even your couch. Like parts of your cat, I'm sure, with your kids, spills everywhere, wiping hands on things. I cannot recommend this enough. So it's the shark pet cleaner. Y' all know we love. No, the picture of the dog on the website kills me.

[C]

Giving the side eye.

[A]

Is that pee on there? Literally, he's, like, side eyeing the thing and it looks like urine.

[C]

It was your piece or.

[A]

Yeah. Why are you, like, giving us the look? Yeah, you should be embarrassed. But anyways, the shark pet cleaner is $199. Money well spent. Money well spent. Okay, Sarah, what do you.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Oh, my God. You always talk about this.

[C]

I do. And I was like, have I talked about this on the podcast?

[A]

You have.

[C]

Have I? Okay, well, I'm gonna talk about it again extensively. Okay.

[A]

But you talk about your love.

[C]

Here's my pitch. You absolutely need to buy the Breville Barista Touch espresso maker. I am such a Breville girl. And I really resisted buying this machine for a very long time because I had an espresso. I. I had a fancy mocha master coffee maker. I don't need this, like, expensive espresso machine in my house. And then I bought it on sale because Macy's has sales all the time, so I didn't pay the 800. I think I bought it. I can't remember how much. And I tell you, it is my most beloved appliance or item in the house. Like, I can't live without it.

[A]

More than your air fryer?

[C]

Yep. More than my air fryer. More than rice cooker. Okay, that. You can't count. That's, like, standard in my house. But. No, but this is something that, like, Matt and I literally at Least once a week, we're like, I can't live without this machine. It has changed the game so much. I know it's expensive, but I literally never go and buy coffee anymore. I prefer the coffee that I make at home. I prefer my flat white, my latte, my cappuccino that I make. There was a weekend where we were gone and we had to, like, buy our coffee, and we were like, this tastes like shit. I wish we were home. I would rather be at home making my espresso.

[A]

Oh, why is this better than other options? Because this is an investment.

[C]

It is an. There's, like, a whole range of espresso machines in this Breville family. Like, there's the mini one, there's an even fancier one. But this one I love because it has everything built into it. Like the grinder. It doses out the right amount of espresso grounds for you. It has the milk frother that has a thermometer, so it tells you when it's. It's hot. It's like 150 degrees. It's done. And you can pick between, like, espresso, long, black, flat white, latte, cappuccino, hot milk, cortado. Cortado. I never was a barista. I had many friends who worked at Starbucks and, like, coffee shops. So they, you know, knew what they were doing. They know what they're doing. I was not like that. And I was very intimidated by getting a machine like this. And now I feel like I could whip you up, you the best latte of your life.

[A]

Does it come with accessories?

[C]

So everything is built in. So literally you don't need anything. I do have a knock box, which is where you put the espresso grounds after you make your coffee. So you're not just having to take it to the trash can. So you just put it in the box, and then when it, you know, fills up, you then throw it away. Or some people put it in their plants or whatever. Compost. I cannot recommend this enough. I know that it's expensive, but if you were trying to save money in the long run. In the long run, because you're spending. You know, lattes nowadays are like, $10.

[A]

No, it's bonkers.

[C]

I was like, since when are lattes literally 10 to $12, especially if you get a flavored one?

[A]

I understand this because I make my coffee at home usually as well. I just get the vanilla syrup from Alfred. The big one.

[C]

Yeah, that's a good one in the

[A]

pump, because that's a really good one. Yeah. I have an espresso. I love it. But my dream in life is literally to be a barista in a cabin town in the snow. Very Hallmark where I'm just making everybody these coffees and, you know, serving and then walk home and read a book with my dog. This is really giving me that fantasy. Yeah. You okay?

[C]

You absolutely need one.

[A]

Is it huge, though? Because I don't have a ton of counter space. Yeah, it's.

[C]

It's pretty big, but I would make room for it.

[A]

But how much space, realistically, is it taking up?

[C]

Okay, it's less than a toaster oven, but it's a little bit more than an espresso machine.

[A]

Oh, that's not bad.

[C]

It's not bad?

[A]

I thought you were gonna say it was taking a path. My counter space.

[C]

No, no, no, no.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Like, we have a Breville air fryer, toaster oven, which is also another appliance that I can't live without. That's huge. That, like, it takes up, like, half of my counter. But this is just. She's perfect. I can't live without her. And I swear, like, she. I was thinking about it. I'm like, if there was a fire, what would you take? I would take my espresso machine.

[A]

You are absolutely bonkers. Well, there is a sale at Macy's right now. I don't know if it's still gonna be on sale by the time this goes live. It's $800 on sale.

[C]

Find a coupon.

[A]

$1,000.

[C]

Otherwise, it will pay for on sale, though, again. So, like, if you really want this, just wait. Macy's has great sales, so you will find it.

[A]

It will pay for itself.

[C]

It will pay for itself.

[A]

Okay, last product. Mine's a beauty product. This is actually a new launch from a brand that we talk about a lot on this podcast. It's Urban Decay. They launched the 247 Liquid Stick Liner last December. I was one of the few people that got invited to the dinner when they announced this, and everyone was losing their minds. So they announced two products. They announced Tube Job, which is the brand's tubing mascara. And I know there's a ton of tubing mascaras out there, but I personally really love this one because I feel like the way that this is formulated, it dries on my lashes more quickly, so then I'm able to build up my lash thickness and length a lot easier. Yeah. But I'm not here to talk about Tube Job. Okay.

[C]

I'm actually wearing this today.

[A]

So am I. The liquid stick liner. Okay. This Stuff is amazing. I've already gone through to which color. Black and brown.

[C]

Yep. Deep matte brown.

[B]

That's my favorite.

[A]

So freaking good. So one side is this creamy retractable pencil, and it has a slanted tip. It's not an oval, it's not a diamond. It doesn't have a point to it, but it's like it's slanted. That's the best way to put it.

[C]

Just so perfect for a little wing.

[A]

100%. It creates those sharp wings, and it's amazing for tight lining. Oh, my God, look at my makeup right now. I have tight lined a high heaven.

[C]

This eyeliner, it's comfortable to tight line. Because I feel like a lot of times with other eyeliners, it's like you gotta tug. It makes your eye water. It's just not meant for that. This just glides so easily.

[A]

Because there's no point.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

There's no exact point. But because of the slant, when you create the wing, it does give you a point. It's really hard to explain. You have to actually see what the retractable end looks like with the actual eyeliner. It's super creamy, so very easy to apply. But then it's waterproof, so once it's on, it's staying on. So you have to work quickly.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So definitely do, like, one eye and then the next. The other side is a fluffy brush, which I could kiss whoever came up with this, because the bane of my existence are those little spongy tips.

[C]

I know who is using the sponge. Who's using the sponge?

[A]

They pull and tug at your face

[C]

or they, like, just remove what you put on.

[A]

It's very, very annoying. This fluffy brush, like, my entire look today was inspired by Alexander French, who

[C]

she could sell me on anything, literally.

[A]

I always go to her TikTok and she teaches me new makeup applications, but she taught me how to do this halo tight lined eyeliner look, which she's calling Demure Brat for Messy Nina park makeup. So I was like, I'm gonna try this, but I used this eye pencil for this look, and I was able to just messily blend my liner so that it looks diffused, but there's still,

[C]

like, shape to it.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I just freaking love it. So I love the brown shade. The matte brown is.

[C]

It's the perfect brown.

[A]

I'm wearing black today. But then they have the shade called denim wash, and it's this metallic periwinkle, and immediately everybody at this dinner was like, this is going to be everybody's favorite it is so stunningly gorgeous. And it, it really, it's like this very light purple with, like a blue tone to it and just a lot of fun. But they have. They have a red shade, an olive shade.

[C]

I kind of like this, like, blue navy.

[A]

Yes. So they made it in a bunch of different shades. That's the same thing with Tube Job. Tube Job also comes in hair shades. So whether you have blonde hair, auburn hair, brown hair, I think that's kind of the edge that these particular launches have on everything else is the shade assortment is really great. And then I cannot say enough good things about the liquid stick liner. It is next level and, oh, the best part. Ophthalmologist tested.

[C]

It's important.

[A]

Ophthalmologist tested. That's why I.

[C]

Tight line. Get in there.

[A]

Yep. Just truly a joy to use. So the Urban Decay liquid liner is $26, and those are our super wipes. Do you have any of these? Have you tried any of these? How are we introducing you to any of these, Sarah? Big spender tan over here.

[C]

No, I'm. It is high maintenance to be low maintenance.

[A]

No, you're right. It's a heavy investment at the top, but then you're never going to want to buy coffee ever again.

[C]

Yeah. Good for you to be like, let me get back there. Because you're not making this right. That's. That's the attitude.

[A]

I love that. I absolutely love it. Thank you to Macy's for partnering with us on this week's Super Wife. And now for news

[C]

Today, we are here joined by journalist, author, beauty, brand, founder, activist, most importantly, dear, dear friend of the podcast, David Yee. Welcome to Los Angeles. Welcome back to Los Angeles.

[B]

Thank you for having me. It's been way too long. Yeah.

[C]

If you have listened to all of our episodes, you know that David has been on the show before. This was in 2021 when you launched your book. But you were here because you have some news to share to tell us what's going on.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, so since the last time that we spoke from my book at Pretty Boys, we launched Good Light, you know, in 2021 as well. I was birthing two babies. It was a book, it was a beauty brand. But I'm here to announce and to talk about that. We are sunsetting.

[C]

I was so shocked to hear that when you texted me because I'm have always been. I mean, I will root for you whatever you choose to do. I told you. But truthfully, like, even not knowing who you are, the products were just so, so Good. And I think that they were very much obviously inspired by Korean beauty. And I think so many people learned about K Beauty through Good Lights products and through you because you are, like, living and breathing your brand and are the epitome of like, K Beauty. I mean, look at you. You're glowing your skin.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

It's shocking because K Beauty is now having their third wave, I think is what we're calling it, and a bit ironic that you have to close your doors.

[B]

Yeah, it's interesting. I wrote an article, an essay for Allure, and the first sentence kind of goes, K Beauty is booming, but my Korean brand is closing. And this was an intentional ch. And I think that, you know, all brands have a lifespan. They have a story to tell. And some are, you know, centuries old. Ours lasted a decade. And it was my personal decision to finally close shop and to Sunset. But I take it as a celebration. We're able to do so much throughout the years. We were Ulta's first gender inclusive beauty brand. You know, I think that it's an honor that I am the only out K Beauty founder and we had a lot to say and it's not lost on me, the activism and the advocacy that went into Good Light Beauty beyond the binary. And I'm really proud of this moment and I want to talk about it, and I'm so, so honored to do so.

[C]

Obviously this is a sad moment, but again, like you said, a celebration, because I feel like you accomplished everything you set out to do. The products were incredible. That milky toner. I mean, the collaborations you did too, were very outside the box. Like the Netflix collaborations, things that brands weren't necessarily doing. Now everyone's doing it, but I feel like you were sort of the first. And I think it helped, obviously, that you came from, like, editorial, and you're a journalist and a writer and just a brilliant mind. So you very much are a trailblazer.

[B]

Thank you so much for saying that. And, you know, it's so raw right now.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because we are announcing it for the first time on the airwaves. You know, I'm so grateful for folks like you, so grateful for my community of moths. And, you know, even in this deep despair that may be kind of overwhelming me right now, our guiding light night is our logo. The moth.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I always say this, but even in the deepest, darkest night, the moth always finds the light. And I go back to that as well. And I hope that, you know, our moth community, our customers, our community knows that they are so worthy and that the activism, the advocacy that we did to challenge the binary. I think in a lot of ways we did slam doors open, you know, and I think that we did challenge people to think about gender and gender roles in a different way.

[C]

Was there like a specific moment when you realized that the business wasn't working the way you had hoped, where you were like, okay, I really need to assess the situation and make a decision.

[B]

I think that it was distinctly two years ago, my co founder who was operating the entire company, he aboard a ship. He didn't want to do it anymore and so he left. And I'm so grateful for him. And you know, we launched this together. But I've never operated a company before. You know, I was the CEO, I was a visionary. I was part of the product development and we had amazing products and that's what I knew. But operating it, the P and L sheets, you know, all the finances, I had no clue. I partnered with someone that I met at a dinner with Nicola Formichetti. Her name is Michi Lee. And together we set out to transform the business. In those two years, we were never in the black. We were never EBITDA positive. We were struggling to be a profitable company. But in the two years we 3x the business were in the black, we were EBITDA positive. But I think that in those two years where we were in survival mode, we just had no marketing budget. I was in a hole and I feel like a lot of people were like, you're not very visible, where are you? In the two years I was in survival mode, just trying to keep afloat and so much pressure as a small team. And I just wanted to prove to myself and not disappoint our investors or my friends and family who believed in me, my retailer like Ulta, and ultimately our customers. But you know, when we were going through that, I saw that K Beauty was in its third wave. It didn't come with a splash or a wave. It was a tsunami. A tsunami of sheet masks and a tsunami of serums and tinctures and viral products and we just could not compete. Yeah. And I think that if you want to compete in today's world, you need the capital. Yeah. And we in comparison, didn't raise as much as others. And that's a full time job. Totally. You know, as a small team, we already have so much to do. But I did not think that I could go out and do another full time job raising more capital.

[C]

Right. And I mean, it's scary to take other people's money and I Think that again, your mission was so strong. The products were incredible. You knew what you were talking about, and I'm sure you could have gotten more money. But then you also have to be really careful with that. You know, that's what I'm learning from. Hearing other stories from other founders who have also taken investment. Is there something that you learned, or maybe like a lesson, perhaps, that other founders should be wary of when they are raising or taking investment?

[B]

I think that more money, more problems, and you cannot take any last dime if you're not going to use it in a very careful way and judicious with your money and your cash flow. I think that for me, I, in the past 10 years, have gotten paid less than I ever had, even in my 20s. You know, it was about sacrifice, keeping the team together, making sure that people get their healthcare, making sure that we do not waste a single cent. Because I see those faces on my spreadsheet, and they're all human faces. And I'm like, they. They gave their capital for this business. I need to spend it wisely. And I still take that responsibility so seriously. So for anyone else that is raising, I would say you need to be extremely responsible and take it from people who believe in your mission, who understand where you're coming from. I mean, I remember the first few days when we were raising, I would actually take meetings and test people. I'd be like, is me being outspoken about being Asian American really uncomfortable for them? Is LGBTQIA uncomfortable for them? And I would push them. And those that were kind of uncomfortable, we just say, no, no, thank you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But then those who were a part of the mission became part of our family.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I would say be very, very careful who you take money from and don't take more than you need.

[C]

Right. And then also, obviously, they want you to be a success. I mean, it's their money as well. But at the end of the day, like, if you have to close your doors, they should be understanding and supportive of that as well.

[B]

Totally.

[C]

Your partners in life, you know, it's like finding the right people. It's like you're marrying them. Right. They have to understand. And I feel like you have really good partners.

[B]

I really have such amazing partners. I mean, even this morning, I had one of my last meetings with my ULTA team, and it was emotional. You know, my dmm, Josie and my buyer, Liz, they really did care for this brand as if it was their own.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I will never forget just the kindness that ULTA has shown me. And they have paved a way so that perhaps I could have the audacity to shine. And I will never understand just why they chose me in so many ways. But, you know, I wanted to succeed because people believed in us so much. Yeah, I really wanted to get to the finish line.

[C]

David, remind me, when did you enter Ulta?

[B]

We entered Ulta in 2022.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And they DMed us when they saw an article of beauty beyond the binary. They're like, are you ready for Ulta? And we're like, we have three SKUs. And they're like, okay, well, let's see if you can get at least six. And so we launched in 400 doors in 2022, 900 doors after that, and then the full chain expansion last year.

[C]

Amazing. What do you think people don't realize about launching at a big retailer like Ulta? Obviously, it was such an incredible achievement. Everyone was so happy for you. But I feel like a lot of listeners, a lot of people who aren't in the business might not see entering a big retailer as a guaranteed success. In actuality, it's very stressful.

[B]

I think that what you need to understand is there's one thing to get in the door and another thing to stay and remain in the door. It's super competitive. Ulta has over 1500 brands. Did you know that?

[C]

No.

[B]

It is so massive. There's mass, there's prestige, there's fragrance, there's everything that you need there. And for you to have a tiny bit of stuff, space of retail, you need to push it on your own.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So that means you need resources for, you know, salespeople to go on the floors. You need marketing resources on TikTok so they discover you. You need to be a part of Ulta's programming and their discount programs or anything that they want from you. And you want to participate as an active founder. But more so I think that you need to make a presence and kind of a globalized name for yourself before you go into retail. You can't expect a retailer to build you and say, we're going to build your brand. You need to build that outside of the retail channels. And then when you're ready, go into retail after that.

[C]

That's really interesting. I read an article today, or actually I didn't read the article, I saw the headline and I was like, I need to read that article. And it was about how Ulta saying that they want to help brands build. But that's a very interesting perspective and I totally agree with you. Obviously, K Beauty has been Growing at Ulta, at Sephora, at all these retailers, there's this huge push. When that started happening, did your relationships at Ulta, did they. How did they tell you about that or how not warn you per se, but, like, did they say, like, you know, K Beauty is having a really big moment. We're gonna bring in these brands from Korea. Like, this could be a really good opportunity for good light to shine. Or was it more like, you have to figure out how to stand out and be, you know, unique and special beyond these other K Beauty brand.

[B]

It's interesting because when we first launched at Ulta, we didn't even launch as a K Beauty brand.

[C]

Right.

[B]

We launched as Beauty beyond the binary. A brand with a mission, that's outspoken, that wants to really talk about gender identity, LGBTQIA issues. And then K Beauty became a marketing term that the consumer now wanted. And we're like, okay, we can also play into that too. We're not completely just K Beauty. I'm a Korean American founder. This is a Korean American brand. But sure, all of our products are formulated in Korea. But when we got word that K Beauty was now coming, I was like, okay, I saw the future. Just as a journalist and an editor, I saw the future. I saw where we're headed and just the competition that we're going to have. Because no longer are we the special one brand. That's K Beauty.

[C]

Right.

[B]

We're now a commodity.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

We're now one of dozens. Yeah. And so I was preparing myself and, you know, I think Ulta presented it as, this is a great opportunity. And we believe that too. We're like, okay, this K Beauty wave. But, you know, I saw the signs when, you know, we saw these massive brands come in and, you know, we just couldn't compete when it came to the attention economy.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And also the pricing.

[C]

Totally. Let's go back to the capital of it all. In your opinion, how much do you think it costs realistically to run a beauty brand in 2026? Not to just launch it, but, like, survive?

[B]

I would say a ballpark figure is $10 million.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

$10 million is going to help you with your influencer program, your collaborations, your sales force, your marketing force in retail doors. That is money that you have to spend to compete. You know, that is just table stakes right now. Right. All brands that want to come in. It's really difficult for indie brands right now. And I want indie brands to succeed. But if you're not backed by venture in the millions, in today's hyper competitive environment, when you are competing against celebrity brands and even celebrity brands are going out of business.

[C]

Oh my God.

[B]

Left and right, they can't even compete. It's like, well, if you want to even get to the table, you have to have a certain amount and I think that's $10 million.

[C]

Yeah. If you were to launch a brand today, whether it is Good Light or a new brand, where would you put most of your money? Would it be marketing? Would it be influencer? Would it be formulation? Where would you put it?

[B]

I would say R and D, the best formulations. That is why we're doing this.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Or else it's waste. Right. Have the best beauty products. And I do think Good Light has the best beauty products. I'll stand by that. I'm going to miss a lot of these products in my regimen. But I think that. And you have to spend on marketing. Yeah, I know that it's, you know, it might seem as if it's daunting, it's a waste. But you have to compete.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You have to find ways of finding that consumer, entertaining that consumer and, and bringing that consumer to not only buy your product once, but that lifetime customer.

[C]

I get a lot of questions from indie brand founders and they say, is it really important to invest in pr? Like do I need PR on retainer? Do I need like an in house publicist? What is your opinion on that?

[B]

No, you can do it. I think PR is kind of, and I hate to say this because I love my publicist friends and agencies and they've built so many brands, PR maybe to launch your product, but you don't need that expenditure anymore. You can do that yourself. You know, even with magazines and publications, you no longer need publications to say what you want to say because you're your own publication.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You have your own channels on TikTok and Instagram, social media. And so I think PR is only if you are an established brand and you have a lot to say on the daily. For brands like us, we launch maybe once every six months and we didn't need that PR push.

[C]

Yeah, that's the exact advice I give. Like if you want to make a big splash, you're launching the brand itself or you have really exciting launch products that you want, like a big moment around. And maybe you don't have the relationships with the editors or you know, you want to get in Vogue and maybe, you know, you don't know the editor there. But I agree, I feel like it's just not to. I mean, again, I love our publicist friends and that's how I learn about a lot of product launches. But if you don't have a lot, you should be putting that money elsewhere.

[B]

Totally.

[C]

So obviously, there are a lot of founders who are struggling right now. Whether we've seen it, so many brands closing their doors like you, or they're quietly struggling and, like, figuring out, what should I do? What advice do you have for them? Or what do you think they should hear?

[B]

I think keep going until you can't. I think that for my brand, we're finally in the positive. We're profitable. I worked so hard in those two years, but I just didn't see myself being able to give this more of my energy in the next two years. Could I have 3x of business again? Yes, of course I could. There are other retailers that are circling us and that have reached out and that we were supposed to launch with this year, but I just didn't feel like I had the capacity to do that. So don't be afraid to say my story. You know, I said what I need to say.

[A]

I.

[B]

And I think with that good light, we said everything we wanted to. You know, we launched Biden Beauty, and that was a beauty sponge. And Kirby, you know, actually broke that story. And the DNC, you know, we supported that 100% with those sales. With our Netflix collaborations with Heartstopper Season 2 or EXO Kitty Season 2, these queer shows, we were able to do that and show up for our community. I think that we made a lot of noise and we said, we'll. We need to say. And my vision from the beginning, I always question why skincare products were so gendered. Why is men's grooming over here, women's beauty over there? And now if you look at beauty aisles, they're all just a beauty aisle, a grooming aisle. It doesn't even have by gender.

[C]

Totally.

[B]

And I think that in a lot of ways, like, we are able to usher that message in.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Isn't it crazy how far? I mean, we obviously still have a long way to go, but I feel like we have. Have come very far in the few years that totally. When we met, you know. Yeah. Like, yeah. Beauty beyond the binary. I feel like you were one of the first to say that. I mean, it's really, really.

[B]

We trademarked it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So absolutely. Looking back, what are you most proud of?

[B]

You know, as an Asian American, Korean American person, a product of immigration. You know how it is. It's so hard to feel proud of yourself because you're like, I don't know, did I even accomplish a lot? And I think it's still hard for me to think that I was able to do something that was worthy. And I'm getting emotional over it because I want to have some self love for myself too. But I think I'm most proud of representing the intersection of identities that we're not just one Note. We are humans who come from beautiful backgrounds who have ancient histories that are so intricate and integral to who we are today. And I think I'm most proud of being able to push that to the forefront and say, this is who we are and we're gonna have the audacity to use our voice and to shine. And I'm not gonna cower away. And even though this has come to an end, my voice will be used in a different way.

[C]

Yeah. This is not the last we will be hearing from David Yee. On that note, is there anything we can look forward to? What are you. I hope you are taking a break and just like again, celebrating, resting, taking care of your own mental health and whatnot. But what's next for you?

[B]

Wow. So I've been working as an entrepreneur for 10 years. Sarah Tan. Yep. 10 years. First, as you know, Very Good Light and then as Good Light Cosmetics, and

[C]

then like writing books in between.

[B]

Writing books in between. I think I just want to continue being creative and free. I'm writing a fiction book right now and I do want to experience, explore just what else there is and what else I've missed out on in the past 10 years. And I really want to rest and I want to heal.

[C]

So if our listeners are frantically trying to stock up on the Last of Good Light, do you have any advice, like, should they just run over to the Ul. Ulta, what should they do once a

[B]

thank you for asking this?

[C]

I mean, we need to stock up.

[A]

We need to know.

[B]

Yes, immediately, immediately. Go to Goodlight World. Okay. Support us. You know, we have so much inventory. But also support Ulta, they have inventory too. I would say stock up because this will be the last time.

[C]

Can I just say, that lip that you just launched.

[B]

Yes. Our Glazed Orbit lip oil.

[C]

So good.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[C]

I was using it, like, as my, like, lip mask. You were on top of my, like, lip liners. It smelled so good and then the packaging was so cute. I am going to miss Good Light and I will be stocking up. But I'm also so, so proud of you. Ever since we became friends, you know, you have always been so inspiring. Everything you've done and everything you've built. So thank you for coming on and sharing your story and also for everything you've done.

[B]

Well thank you Sarah and everything you

[C]

will continue to do because I will be rooting and I will be watching and supporting.

[B]

Likewise. I'll be back on Los Angeles.

[C]

Come back anytime.

[B]

I'll be in the beauty industry. Beauty adjacent. You're not getting rid of me anytime soon.

[A]

No we won't be.

[C]

Thanks.

[A]

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