Ep. 168.90 Bruce Vilanch and #MaxFunDrive Amnesty Weekend!

Summary

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Go Fact Yourself | Ep. 168.90: Bruce Vilanch and #MaxFunDrive Amnesty Weekend!

March 29, 2025
Host: J. Keith van Straaten
Producer/Co-Host: Helen Hong
Guest: Bruce Vilanch (with Jim Newman)

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Overview

In this special "mini episode" for Amnesty Weekend of the MaxFunDrive, Go Fact Yourself pays tribute to prolific comedy writer and icon Bruce Vilanch. J. Keith van Straaten and producer/co-creator Jim Newman call up Bruce to dive into his impressively deep and enthusiastic list of 25 quiz topics he sent prior to his guest appearance. Bruce shares lively anecdotes and personal connections to each topic, revealing his vast curiosity, comedic roots, and unique experiences across showbiz, music, food, travel, and more.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bruce Vilanch's Book & Creative Process

• Update: Bruce has written a memoir, "It Seemed Like a Bad Idea at the Time: How I Wrote the Worst TV Shows in History and Some Other Things and Lived. And So Did They."
  • Originated from pandemic-era podcasts where younger people asked about the infamous TV shows (“Star Wars Holiday Special,” “Brady Bunch Variety Hour,” etc.)
• On Revivals:
  • "[My] ass is riddled with bite marks from everything that's come back." (05:09, Bruce)
• Motivation: Wanted to write about his notorious flops rather than a traditional memoir.

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2. Bruce’s Love for 1950s–60s Musicals

• Gained exposure as a kid from New Jersey, seeing shows in New York with family.
• First show: "The Vamp" starring Carol Channing — memorable, albeit a flop.
  • Anecdote about out-of-town tryout titling and the expensive Winter Garden sign.
  • “Whenever I would mention it … [Carol] said, ‘Why do you keep bringing up that turkey? It cost me a fortune to get that sign down.’” (10:00, Bruce)
• Discusses “Fanny”—opens a story thread on Broadway production drama and celebrity encounters.

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3. Musical Composers: Cole Porter & Frank Loesser

• Cole Porter:
  • Admired as the "most sophisticated composer/lyricist."
  • Lived a “double life” as a closeted gay man; clever, coded existence in a hostile era.
  • “Being gay was equated with evil...but he was Cole Porter.” (11:17, Bruce)
• Frank Loesser:
  • Personal connection: Went to summer camp with Loesser’s daughter, performed “Guys and Dolls” for him.
  • Loesser didn’t read music but was a sophisticated composer.
  • Story behind “Baby, It’s Cold Outside” — performed with his wife with role reversals, countering modern criticism.
    • "It's two people who are having fun with each other, and it's just. It's a joke." (15:05, Bruce)

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4. Classic Cartoon Characters (excluding superheroes)

• Favorites: Tweety Pie, Tinkerbell (“solidarity with blonde cartoon characters”), Daffy Duck, Bugs Bunny (valuing their coded, drag appearances and subversive humor).
  • “All the other guys like superheroes. I like Katy Keene. ...It was very gay even then.” (16:10, Bruce)
  • Emphasizes love for “satirical and whimsical stuff” over action/superhero genres.

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5. Long Collaboration with Bette Midler

• 55-year working relationship: From journalist to joke writer and confidant.
  • “She said to me, you're a funny writer. And I said, well, you're funny. You should talk more on stage. She said, you got any lines? And that was the beginning.” (17:14, Bruce)
• Developed local jokes for her act, hallmark of her early performances.
• Bette even wrote the blurb for Bruce’s book.
  • “You pick your fights. ...And you choose your favors.” (18:21, Bruce)

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6. Ocean Liners & Maritime Disasters

• Personal history:
  • Repeated ship trips as a child, bon voyage parties — fascination rooted in early travel experiences.
  • Family lore: Aunt Blanche Ferlanch (with her own theme song).
• Disasters: Titanic, Lusitania, Andrea Doria
  • Fascination with catastrophic events begins in childhood after reading "A Night to Remember."
  • Sees Titanic—“about hubris, man thinking that a machine can conquer nature ... compounded by the class system.” (21:43, Bruce)
  • “When you learn something when you’re nine, you tend to hold on to it.” (23:31, Bruce)
• Quiz show nostalgia: On his previous appearance, Bruce breezed through the Andrea Doria quiz, almost upstaging expert Mike Stoler.

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7. Commercial Passenger Planes

• First-hand stories from era when flying was a dressed-up, turbulent, and special occasion.
  • “Travel was an adventure and a privilege.” (25:02, Bruce)
  • “Meals were served to you on your lap. ...I had a clip-on tie for the occasion.” (24:46, Bruce)
  • Knowledgeable about historic airliners and modern aviation developments.

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8. Jewish Food

• Grew up surrounded by Jewish cuisine in New Jersey: favorite is cholent (slow-cooked stew), chopped liver, debate over gefilte fish.
  • “Cholent...explodes in your stomach in stages, like a rocket.” (25:54, Bruce)
  • Discusses famous Kanner’s Deli, its “Buckbenny” sandwich, and the Jewish LA food scene.

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9. Puns and Drag Names

• Proud “collector” of puns and drag names:
  • “Puns are cheap, and I love them.” (28:29, Bruce)
  • “Puns and drag names are actually puns.” (29:03, Bruce)
  • Favorites include “Helena Hand Basket,” and “Rachel Profiling.”
• On drag: Only performed in drag in Hairspray (“played a real woman”) and for a short-lived TV show “Cheech.”

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10. Beloved Locations: Miami Beach & Hawaii

• Miami Beach: Family roots, first writing job at the “Miami Herald.” The cultural hub for Jewish families; FOMO if you weren't at the right hotel.
• Hawaii: Family had a teacher-exchange year there when it was still a territory. Sailed across the Pacific on the Lurline.
  • “After we were already in a Turkish bath, we found this out.” (32:29, Bruce) (on shared Hawaii/Patterson, NJ/Bette Midler connection)

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11. Famous Fat People: The Power of Representation

• Childhood idols included Jackie Gleason, Zero Mostel, William Bendix, Oliver Hardy, Stubby K.
  • “The idea that you could actually be heavy and be graceful, which I used to be... It was very appealing. I like that. It was fun.” (33:54, Bruce)
• On Hollywood Squares, parodied by comedic fat actors—felt affirmed, part of a legacy.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the breadth of his quiz topics:
  • Jim: "How many topics did Bruce send us?"
  • Helen: "25. What? 25 different topics? Yep." (02:55)
• On being an "expert" guest:
  • "This is what happens when you're a fat kid and you're not athletic and you have a life of the mind and you do a lot of reading." (06:02, Bruce)
• On the universality of representation:
  • "Whenever I hear someone say, I like seeing someone who looks like me in office... the idea that you could actually be heavy and be graceful... very appealing." (33:54, Bruce)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:33] – Main interview with Bruce begins
• [04:29] – Bruce discusses his book project
• [06:43] – Golden Age musicals
• [10:17] – Cole Porter’s secret/dual life
• [11:53] – Frank Loesser & camp memories
• [15:22] – Classic cartoon characters (“everything but superheroes”)
• [16:48] – Bette Midler collaboration
• [20:08] – Ocean liners and maritime disasters
• [24:18] – Fascination with passenger planes
• [25:54] – Jewish food (cholent, Kanner's Deli, favorite dishes)
• [28:29] – Puns and drag names (Helena Hand Basket, Rachel Profiling)
• [30:41] – Miami Beach & Hawaii; cultural threads
• [32:44] – Famous fat people and positive role models

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Conclusion

This special episode is a whirlwind tour through Bruce Vilanch’s encyclopedic interests, brimming with showbiz anecdotes, comedic asides, thoughtful reflections on identity and representation, and affectionate tributes to bygone eras—on ships, on stage, and in the kitchen. The rapport with hosts and Bruce’s signature humor make it both highly informative and deeply entertaining, a perfect showcase for why Go Fact Yourself celebrates "what people love."

For more Bruce: wegotbruce.com – where, as Bruce quips, he checks each morning "to see what I’m up to." (34:26)

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Hey, it's Jake Heath and it's Helen.

[C]

And we've got a special Max Fund Drive Amnesty Weekend mini episode for you.

[B]

If you missed supporting us in the Max Fund Drive that technically ended on Friday, March 28th. Good news. You have a reprieve. We're able to accept your contribution and give you a bunch of rewards as long as you get your membership in order by joining, Boosting or Upgrading by Sunday night, March 30 at maximumfun.org join.

[C]

Of course, you don't just help us make the show, and literally we cannot make the show without the support of listeners like you. But you also get all sorts of cool stuff starting at just $5 a month.

[B]

You know the drill by now. You get hundreds of hours of bonus content, monthly GFI extras, the chance to play in our listener tournament to be a guest on the show, a chance to play in a live Zoom trivia game with Jay Keith as host, access to an exclusive stream video of our live stage show, a special GFY enamel pin, and if you prepay your membership, a one of a kind baseball card autographed by me and J. Keith.

[C]

Yeah, I'm there as well. That is a lot. And you get to be part of making something that you enjoy. We're all about celebrating what people love on this show. So if you have ever had a moment of love for gofact yourself, a laugh, an insight, maybe even a tear. But please put that love into action while you still can. Join, Boost or [e-mail] join do it now before you forget. You can keep listening to us yammer on. Just make sure to do it before the Amnesty weekend ends at Midnight on Sunday, March 30th here on go.

[B]

Fact yourself. Facts matter. Be a part of spreading that message now while it's so [e-mail] join okay, and now a little audio treat for you as our way of saying thanks.

[C]

So as you know, when we book a guest, we ask them to give us three to five topics that they know and love so that we can write a quiz about one of them and then bring on a surprise expert. Now, some guests need a little help to come up with three. Some have even been booked on the show and realized they only had one topic and completely bailed on us. It happens. It's not for everybody, but then there are folks like the legendary comedy writer and icon Bruce Valanch.

[B]

I loved having Bruce as a guest who knew someone I thought was all about comedy, knew just about everything about that sinking of the ship, the Andrea. He aced his quiz.

[C]

Yeah, well, it turns out the Andrea Doria isn't the only thing Bruce knows about. And it's also not just his other two topics that we had mentioned on the show that night. Helen, I want you to guess how many topics Bruce sent us.

[B]

9.

[C]

More.

[B]

12.

[C]

More.

[B]

17.

[C]

Helen, we've got to make this a mini episode. We can't keep going. 25. What? 25 different topics? Yep.

[B]

He can go deep dive on 25 different topics.

[C]

That's what he said. Well, we wondered how much does Bruce Valanche know about all of these other topics and why? So our producer and go fact yourself co creator Jim Newman thought that we should call him and ask and well, we did. Bruce was kind enough to spend some time with us this week. And what you'll hear now is Jim and I talking with Bruce about most of the other 25 topics he gave us.

[B]

Amazing.

[C]

And now here's Bruce, Jim and me. Enjoy.

[D]

One of our favorite guests of all time was Bruce Vilanche. Not only was he fantastic in the show, but pre show he gave us 25 different topics to choose from and I have no doubt that he would do equally well in all of them. And we just wanted to go through some or all of these 25 and just hear why he picked them. And I have some opinions and why some are maybe better topics for the show than others for maybe future guests who are going to be on the show.

[C]

Well, in that case, let's welcome Bruce Vilanche. Hi, Bruce. Welcome back.

[A]

Hello there. Here I am. Wow. Here I am with my 25 areas of interest.

[C]

Well, I guess we're down to 24 because we did use one of them on the show.

[D]

We'll talk about that one a little bit too.

[C]

Yeah. Well, thanks so much for coming back. You want to give our listeners a little update on what's been going on with you since you were on the show?

[A]

Well, I've written a book. It's called it seemed like a Bad Idea at the time how I wrote the worst TV shows in history and some other things and lived. And so did they. Because it started out from podcasts during COVID where people who were much younger than I were asking me about TV shows I wrote before they were born and they wanted to know how they happened and who said yes to them and have they paid their debt to society. So things like the Star Wars Holiday special and the Brady Buns Variety Hour and the Paul Lynde Halloween special and epics all. And I wondered how they knew about them. And of course, they live on the Internet, which I didn't realize they were all on YouTube. And now that I've discovered it, my ass is riddled with bite marks from everything that's come back.

[C]

Yes, but you've turned the tables. You actually get to another bite at the. You get another bite at the apple by writing a book about it.

[A]

There's a book in this. I've been toying with a memoir because I'm so old that I could now write one. But I thought, no, but, you know, I didn't want to do that. But I thought to write a book about all the awful things that have resurfaced, it would be novel and almost a novel, but I wish I was as thin as this volume.

[C]

Well, let's get into it. As Jim explained, you gave us an incredible 25 topics that we could possibly quiz you on. Things that you know and love, which is outside. You know, sometimes it's like pulling teeth to get one topic from our guests. And so it's always a thrill when we get so many. And also so many specifics and so many things that you clearly love.

[A]

This is what happens when you're a fat kid and you're not athletic and you have a life of the mind and you do a lot of reading, and so you be you. Or I just became interested in a whole bunch of stuff because I didn't have a whole lot of luck with my peers. There was a small, hearty band of them who were like me, but otherwise. And that's why I started telling them jokes, because, as Whoopi always says, you tell them a joke that gives you a chance to run.

[C]

Yeah. I've never heard of anyone in show business having any kind of social trouble as a young person. So this is very interesting.

[A]

Yeah, really. Exactly.

[C]

Let's start by going through them. The first one that you gave us is musicals of the 50s to 60s, the golden age.

[A]

It's said to have started with Oklahoma in 1943. But this is when I was growing up. I was a kid and I lived in Jersey, and I went into New York and saw every show.

[C]

And what were some of your favorites of the time?

[A]

Oh, my God. Well, I also kind of. The first one I saw was a big flop, of course. It was called the Vamp. It starred Carol Channing, and it was kind of like a parody of the Theta Barra story. Theda Barra was a girl from Brooklyn who went into silent movies and was turned into Cleopatra and took the name Fida Barra. Because she was a vamp, the first vamp. Heavy eye makeup and very sultry and seductive and exotic, where she really was a girl from Brooklyn. I forget what her real name was. So I loved that one. That was the first show I ever saw. And the second one was called Fanny, which was based on a bunch of books by Marcel Proust. And it was Ezio Pinza and Florence Henderson with the girl who I later got to work with a lot. And it was David Merrick's first musical. He was the biggest producer on Broadway, and my father had money in it. So we went to the opening. Very glamorous. I was really a kid. I was like 7 or 8 years old.

[C]

Unbelievable. I wonder if they would have had to change the title when it went to London.

[A]

Josh Logan directed it and he and David Merrick had a big feud about. Josh Logan wanted possessory credit on the show. And so David Merrick says, oh, I'll be happy to give that to you. And he plastered the out of town tryout with posters that said, come see Josh Logan's fanny.

[D]

Well, all right. I want to throw in for those who have followed my career and Jay Keith's career and also Bruce's career. We used to do a live stage version of the old what's My Line Quiz show from the 50s and 60s. And Bruce appeared on the show, but also on the original TV version of that show. Their very first guest on the very first episode was the Hat Check girl from the Stork Club. She was also a chorus girl in Fanny, certainly.

[C]

Oh, no kidding.

[A]

Yeah, Fanny had belly dancers. It was set in Marseille, and there were a whole bunch of Moroccan belly dancers. A girl named Najeela aids. It may have been that girl, Najeela aids, because she. She had a kind of notoriety on Broadway at the time.

[C]

That's funny. And then when Jim and I brought what's My Line live on stage to New York, our very first guest on our very first show, there was that very same Hat Check girl who had been on the first show of what's My Line? Yes, Patricia Porterfield. She was.

[D]

We flew her up from Florida to appear with us.

[A]

She was in retirement there at a gated Hat Check community.

[D]

On this subject, I have one more question. Does Vamp live on as a original cast recording or anything, or does it live up only in your memory?

[A]

It was originally out of town. It was titled Delilah, and if you can find a poster of that, that says carol Channing is Delilah. That's very rare. But it was a quick fold. And the only reason it existed at all was because they didn't have any money to take down the sign on the roof of the Winter Garden. So for years it was Carol Channing in the Vamp. And it would light up with all.

[C]

The other signs now and forever at.

[A]

The Winter Garden whenever I would mention it to her. Whatever. I meant, you said, why do you keep bringing up that turkey? It cost me a fortune to get that sign down.

[C]

All right. Well, speaking of musicals, the next topic that you gave us was Cole Porter. Tell us about your love of Cole Porter.

[A]

Well, he was the most sophisticated composer, lyricist of the era. Of course, by the time I was a kid, he was. Towards the end. I mean, he was. The last show was Silk Stockings, but he did Kiss Me Kate and Can can and. And way before that, a lot of shows for Ethel Merman. And he was a fascinating character because he was a double lifer. He was gay. And he had a series of spectacular young boyfriends. And he used to go with Monty Willy. They used to go into Central park, into the Rambles and play around with guys. And he was married to this socialite, Linda Porter. Quite elegant. And they had what barriers would be called a Boston marriage, a Twilight tandem, although she was straight, I think, but they lived together for a long time. It was fascinating how he managed to do all of this under the gun, I mean, with nobody noticing. But then, this was before there was keyboard warfare and there was a certain code because being gay was equated with evil. The gay character was the one who had to commit suicide. Nobody wanted to call him that because he wasn't evil. He was Cole Porter.

[C]

Right. Okay. So it wasn't just his work. You also loved the biography as well.

[A]

I mean, there are a million standards that he wrote that everybody still covers today. And by everybody, I mean Michael Buble.

[C]

Yeah. All right, well, let's move on to our next one. We have another composer, Frank Lesser.

[A]

Well, I actually knew him. I went to summer camp with his daughter, with Sue Lesser. And it was a camp run by Ted Mack. Ted Mack was the Simon Cowell of his day. He had a show radio he inherited from a guy named Major Bose called the Original Amateur Hour. And it was a TV show on abc. And every week amateurs would come on and the audience would vote and all that. And he ran. He had no kids, but he and his wife bought a summer camp in the Berkshires. And it was like fame in the Berkshires. It was all professional, talented children. And there were a couple of celebrity kids there, like sue. And I got friendly with him. And Frank Lesser came up for Parents Weekend, and we did a show. We did Guys and Dolls. His show.

[C]

His show for Frank Lesser.

[A]

And I was nicely, Nicely Johnson singing. Sit down, you're rocking the boat. And I was like, 10.

[C]

Did he give notes?

[A]

No, it just was wonderful. He was very kind. And he was writing a show called Green Willow that was not a hit. It was a musical that starred Anthony Perkins.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Just before he was Psycho, when he was still, you know, friendly. Persuasion. The only song that exists from it is Never Will I Marry, which Barbra Streisand sang. And of course, it was for Tony. It meant a lot back then, but. So we watched Frank Lesser. Frank Lesser did not read music. He was a brilliant composer. But he would sit at the piano with a guy and he would hum, and the guy would plunk out the tune and then he would write. He would notate the score. That's how he worked. And this is the guy who wrote Guys and Dolls had to succeed in business without really trying. A million Baby, it's cold outside. A million songs for the movies. I mean, he was a big deal.

[C]

We actually did a topic on Guys and Dolls in a bonus content episode, a full episode, I think that was from last year. Spoiler alert. If you don't want to know, we actually got Faith PR guys to be our surprise expert. So we discussed that show. One of my favorites as well.

[D]

I have a little bit of a rant about. About Baby, It's Cold Outside.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Which has started to get a bad rap, but the history of it. And I'm certain you know this, Bruce, but it began as a party piece that. That Frank Lesser sang with his wife, Lynn Garland, and it became a big hit on the party circuit. They were invited to all parties because everyone wanted to hear them perform the song, but they performed it with Lynn Garland, the wife, as the aggressor, and Frank Lesser was the victim, if you will. And then years later, he sold it to MGM for the movie Neptune's Daughter with.

[A]

With Esther Williams.

[D]

Williams, their swimming star. And so was sung by Esther Williams and Ricardo Montalban in the movie, but it was also sung in the movie by Red Skelton and Betty Garrett, where they switched the roles again and the woman was the aggressor. So it's always been able to go both ways. The song ended up winning the Oscar.

[A]

It's two people who are having fun with each other, and it's just. It's a joke. It's not. They're joking between themselves.

[C]

All right, well, let's move on to our next topic. We have classic cartoon characters and then in parentheses and everything but superheroes.

[A]

Yeah, right. I do love. I love cartoon. My favorite is Tweety Pie and Tinkerbell. What can we learn from this?

[D]

You like blondes. Yeah, the name alone.

[A]

Exactly. I feel solidarity with blonde cartoon characters. But as an adult, I always. I went crazy over the Warner Brothers, over Daffy Duck and Bugs Bunny because so much of what they did was coded. I mean, they both show up in drag and different Looney Tunes and Mel Blanc would do voices for them, and their whole attitude was just the whole thing of, eh, what's up, doc? Cynical and subversive. Yeah. Daffy was the one everything happened to. You know, this is despicable.

[C]

Why not superheroes? You said everything but superheroes.

[A]

Oh, because, you know, all the other guys like superheroes. I like Katy Keene. Nobody remembers her. She was a supermodel comic strip.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And I liked her. And you weren't supposed to because it was, you know, it was very gay even then. And the CW actually tried to do a series, Katy Keene. It didn't work. Many, many, many years later. Not animated, but I liked all of that kind of the kind of satirical and whimsical stuff I didn't like. Now I like them all because they wear tights, and I like that.

[C]

All right, and then moving on to this one. I know you'll have a lot to say about this topic. Bette Midler.

[A]

Well, you know, I've been working with her for 55 years. Excuse me, I'm getting my digitalis injection. And, you know, so, I mean, it's. And we're still working. And she's the greatest, my inspiration. I met her when I was a reporter at the Chicago Tribune. I interviewed her, and I started writing for her then.

[C]

How do you go from writing about her to writing with her or for her?

[A]

She had a manager, Bud Friedman, who owned the Improv in New York, and he said, if you like her, write about her. And I went and reviewed her, and I thought she was great. And I did an interview with her, and she said to me, you're a funny writer. And I said, well, you're funny. You should talk more on stage. She said, you got any lines? And that was the beginning. It was mostly local Chicago jokes. And then I was the TV critic at the time, so I would call TV critics in other cities who I knew from the junkets we were on and asked them what was happening, who can we make fun of in Baltimore and she'd go out on the stage in Baltimore and do all this local material, and they would say, how the hell does she know this? So it became one of the hallmarks of her act until finally she said, it's too much to learn. How I knew she'd become a big star. It's too much to learn.

[C]

Well, I believe that we actually tried to see if we could get BET to show up as your expert in doing that topic, and we struck out. Yeah. I was going to say, could you have gotten her.

[A]

Who knows?

[C]

Who knows?

[A]

She gave me the most fabulous blurb for the book. The book jacket. So, you know, you pick your fights.

[C]

You know, and you choose your favors. Yeah, exactly.

[D]

We normally would not even allow you to have that category because you're too close to it. If we had Beth Midler as a topic, we would call you in to be the expert.

[A]

But.

[D]

But if Bette Midler said yes, we would be okay with that.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

All rules are wrong.

[A]

Margaret said yes, which has amazed me.

[C]

Yeah. Oh, that's so cool that you know that. Yeah, Isn't that cool?

[A]

I've known her for almost also 55 years and wrote a lot of her Vegas stuff over the years. And we've been friends, really, since the early 70s. I couldn't believe that she had said yes to this. Neither could we.

[C]

Yeah, neither could we.

[A]

Yeah. I couldn't figure out. And so I called her and I said I'd been on the show and. And she said, oh, thank God you're called. I'm so afraid what's gonna happen. And I said, well, you gave them a bunch of topics that you could. And he said, yes. She said. She read me the list. And I said, well, they'll probably do football, because football is so huge, you know, and guy. You did. That's exactly what you did. You brought out an NFL guy. And then she said to me, and I don't know who the other person is. I said, well, it's Antonio Villaragoza, who I also wrote for. I used to give. I wrote jokes for Antonio when he was. Because we were on the same side of a lot of stuff, especially about marriage equality. He was one of the early. He followed Gavin Newsom there. He was one of the early supporters. It was just hysterical. They were on the show together.

[C]

Well, thank you for not talking her out of it.

[A]

Oh, no, never. I thought if she actually was willing to do this, and I still don't know why, because she had nothing to plug. So it was just like getting out of the house.

[C]

That is something that we can offer our guests the chance to get out of the house.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

All right, we're going to move on to our next topic. This one is ocean liners.

[A]

Well, you know the Andrew Doria was our subject on the show.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

My father spent a year in Paris teaching and we went back and forth a lot. And this was before jets and so it was, it was a long, awful flight at low altitudes. So we took ships and I fell in love with ships. And back then you could. In New York you can go on any ship before it sailed for bon voyage parties that all ended with 9, 11. So my aunt, whose real name was Blanche for Lanch, given to her at birth. I never met my grandparents, but I was desperate to know who would do this to an infant. There was a big laugh in the family. We'd sing a Blanche for Lance lives on a ranch in southern France, went on like that. So my Aunt Blanche was a schoolteacher and she would take me on Saturday mornings when the ships were in and we would go tour. We would make our own little tour of all the ocean liners. And then I sailed on a few of them and I just. The romance of was a whole different world, you know. It was a world I never really was comfortable in because it was all dress up, you know, and when you're a fat kid nothing ever fits. But I love just the whole lore. And of course that led to a fascination with disasters involving ocean liner.

[C]

Yeah. Well, your next group of topics is the Titanic, Lusitania and Andrea Doria. What do you think your fascination for these ocean liner disasters comes from?

[A]

I guess I have a fascination with disasters. Cause I'm also interested in Pompeii, which was a big ass disaster way before there were ships. Yeah, when I was like nine years old. Eight or nine years old. Walter Lord's book A night you remember was published. It was a huge bestseller and I devoured it and it was a movie. And it began the whole fascination with Titanic. I mean, whenever I meet Titanic nerds, they seem to be. It all seems to start back then. Oh, interesting. The younger ones caught on later, obviously, but there were so many who were my age who. And that just led to all the others. But I mean, the Titanic story is incredible because it's about hubris. It's about man thinking that a machine can conquer nature and be reckless about it. But that was also the Edwardian age. It was, we are English, we are superior, we're not going to let anything get in our way. And then of Course, when the disaster struck, it was compounded by the class system. As is well known, more first class women survived than stewards, children. So it was, you know, you didn't get the opportunity to save your life. And of course, the ship wasn't equipped to carry everybody off of it.

[C]

Right.

[A]

I mean, you know, it's all stacked up and I mean, it's like they talk about air disasters. It's a cascading series of events, right.

[C]

Those kind of catastrophes.

[A]

Not one thing. It's just one thing happens and the next thing happens, dominoes begin to fall. So that, that's all very interesting to me, especially as a kid. I mean, it was so big, right?

[C]

The idea that something so huge could be still so fragile.

[A]

Yeah, right, exactly.

[C]

And of course we ended up going with the Andrea Doria. You went like a buzzsaw through all of your questions.

[A]

You aced your questions at the time. I don't know if I remember them now, but at the time, yeah, I mean, I said when you, when you learn something when you're nine, you tend to hold on to it.

[C]

Yeah, it was incredible. We really, we really thought we had some stumpers. And to me, it's such a, I always use it when we're describing the show to people as a great example of you never know what someone's going to be interested in. And what other opportunities does someone like Bruce Valanche have to geek out about the Andrea dormant.

[A]

And I almost stepped on my own expert. Special guest.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

I was about to tell you the mike stolen. He said, don't tell us that story. We're saving that for later.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Then of course, Mike showed up. Yes.

[C]

Then the great Mike Stoler showed up as your expert. That was one of our favorite segments. Moving on from ocean liners, this might be a similar disaster theme then commercial passenger planes.

[A]

Well, that was the other thing. I mean, once jets came in, I started flying when they were still props. We used to fly down from New York to Miami on the DC7. That was a big deal. It's laughable now because you flew, you didn't fly at a high altitude, so you've got all the turbulence and meals were served to you on your lap. You put a pillow on your lap and they'd put a tray on top of it. And when I think about it, and everybody was dressed up, I was gonna.

[C]

Say, I know you don't like to get dressed up, but when you look at pictures back, you had to, right? You had to dress up to get on a plane.

[A]

I Had a clip on, tie for the occasion. You know, people dress for the theater and they dressed for to travel. Travel was an adventure.

[C]

Right. And a privilege.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, it was kind of like it was a joke about make sure you wear clean underwear because you never know what's going to happen.

[C]

But so if we had asked you about, you know, different types of planes or different, that would have been up your alley.

[A]

Yeah, I knew all about them. I mean, I'm a little rusty on it now because I still haven't been on the 380, which I'm, you know, with the triple decker, which looks like, I mean, 500 people and flying to Dubai. There are only a few places where they can land it.

[C]

Yep. I do recommend it. I took it to Australia once. And the coolest thing is they've got a camera at the tail, like facing forward. So you can watch the entire flight kind of live on your screen. Really fun and very comfortable. All right, next up, we had Jewish food. I think we talked about this a little bit on the show, but tell us more about it, probably.

[A]

Well, yeah, I grew up Jewish in New Jersey, so I was exposed to it a lot. Little known things like cholin, cholen can be meat or just vegetables, but it's kind of like a ravioli, a big ravioli. But it's mostly, it's famous on Shabbos on the weekend and on Yom Kippur when you're fasting, you have it before the fast because it kind of explodes in your stomach in stages like a rocket. Yeah. And so suddenly you're getting nutrition and your hunger is being slated. You've not done any work to make it happen. It was all done before the sunset, so it's all legitimate. And it was kind of my favorite Jewish food because I thought it's so practical. But, you know, I mean, I lived through all of them, you know, and chopped liver was my go to.

[C]

My grandmother made an amazing chopped liver. According to everybody else who tried it. I could not stand it. I've never enjoyed.

[A]

My father loved liver, which I could never eat. But chopped liver was fine. Yeah, because it was seasoned, you know, it was like gefilte fish. There's no such thing as a gefilte fish. Gefilte fish was made from the scraps of what, the leftovers from the white people, you know, and they collected from the garbage they collected in the kitchen all the scraps of fish and molded them together into a thing called gefilte fish.

[C]

We've had a Few guests use Jewish food as a topic. And we finally did it on our show with guest Jackie Tone. Late last year, we got Mark Cantor of Kanner's Deli as our surprise expert. That was a lot of fun.

[A]

That's great. Well, he made the Buckbenny.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. That's funny. The Buckbenny is my favorite canners reference. First of all, I think it was our number five question. Or maybe I think it was part of our cluster question. What was the name. What was the name of the sandwich named after a comedian that was there? There was an era where a lot of people would have old canners menus on their wall as decor, and I would always be able to gauge the era of it by looking at the price of the buckbenny, because the buck penny has been on there since almost the beginning.

[A]

Mort so used to do a routine about a B movie, sci fi of the atomic era where the atom bomb is scaring everybody. And it was about devastation in Los Angeles. And the title was the Night Cantors Close.

[C]

Well, it was a little prophetic when it came to Covid times, but I know. Thankfully, they're back online.

[A]

They're back. The Kibbets room is available at 4am Yep.

[C]

We're just gonna do a couple more because actually we're only about halfway. But the next one I'd love to hear your thoughts on this is puns.

[A]

Puns are cheap and I love them.

[C]

Yeah, I was gonna say a lot of comedy writers have mixed feelings, it seems, or conflicting feelings.

[A]

Well, because someone in your. In your English lit class said puns are the cheapest form of humor because they're. They're so easy. But on the other hand, they really are. They are funny. Now, of course, I can't think of a single one.

[C]

Well. Well, you're talking to people who host a show called Go fact Yourself and have things called the Cluster Fact. So, yeah, we are. We embrace the pun and embrace the groans that often come with them.

[A]

The value of puns. Yeah.

[C]

And are you someone who collects puns? Are you someone who likes to put them in with you?

[A]

Puns and drag names.

[C]

Oh, of course.

[A]

Are actually puns.

[C]

You know, does that go back to. If, you know, does that go back to sort of the. The start of drag? Or was it. Or the punny name something that came in a certain area?

[A]

Yeah, no, I think it was. Well, there are two kinds of drag names. There are just drag names that. That are like ridiculous, you know, Shawana Divine, you know, that kind of a name. And then There are names that are actual puns on things. Like Anita Procedure.

[C]

Right.

[A]

I like to use her. Exactly. Rachel profiling.

[C]

I think those are great.

[D]

I like Helena Hand Basket.

[A]

Helena Hand Basket. Actually, I knew Helena. Helena Hand Basket, I think was in New York. I actually remember her. I think Bette knew her, actually. I don't know why that. But it's great.

[C]

Did you ever do drag?

[A]

Only in Hairspray, which was. I played a real woman and one. I did drag. Yes.

[C]

A couple on Broadway.

[A]

Yeah, on Broadway. I did it on tour. And then I did a show that the Writers Guild strike canceled. It was Cheech Marin's show called Cheech. And I played a. A gossip columnist with a hormone problem named Louella Fellow. And she had a beard, and she was a character on the show, and I was writing it, so that was fun. But we only got to shoot three episodes and the Guild went on strike and NBC canceled us.

[C]

Did those air?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Okay. That's amazing.

[A]

Willie Nelson as a guest. That was my favorite because I was bearded and he was bearded, and we did a little beard off at each other.

[C]

All right, well, our next two are both locations. We've got Miami beach and Hawaii.

[A]

Well, Miami beach my grandparents lived in, and so I was there a lot as a kid. And my first job was at the Miami Herald writing features as an intern. I spent a lot of time there. And the lore of Miami beach is fascinating. And of course, it was like the Jewish Riviera.

[C]

Right.

[A]

So, you know, and the hotel of the year. Every year there was some new place you had to go to or you had fomo. If you didn't, if you were not at the Fontainebleau, if you were at the Eden Rock, oh, my God, you had fomo. I loved all of that. And the very same Blanche Valanche. Back in the 50s, Hawaii was a territory. She was an exchange teacher. It was considered a foreign post. And she went to Honolulu for a year and taught. And a teacher from Honolulu came over and took over her class in Patterson, New Jersey. And so we all went to visit her. We flew to la, and then we took the Lureline, which was the famous ship that went between the mainland and the islands.

[C]

Man, that must have taken a long time.

[A]

Five days. It was just like going to Europe. It's almost 3,000 miles, and the Pacific is rougher than the Atlantic. This much I remember. But it had all the rituals. It was very, very Hawaiian, but also very haole, which is wasp in Hawaiian. You know, the white guys are the haoles. And so I Got to learn a lot about. Because we hung out with her for a while. I got to learn a lot about. And I just kind of fell in love. And as irony would have it, Bette Midler's parents left Patterson, New Jersey, and moved to Hawaii, where she was born.

[C]

And grew up, bringing together both Hawaii ocean liners. It all comes together.

[A]

After we were already in a Turkish bath, we found this out.

[C]

All right, I'm going to. I think we're going to wrap things up with our last one here for. For this call. Let's go with famous fat people. Your turn.

[A]

Well, you know, famous because I was one when I was a kid. My idols were Jackie Gleason and Zero Mostel. And who else? William Bendix, Wallace Beery. In the movies. I like Oliver Hardy. Not so much Stan Laurel, but Oliver Hardy because he's a fat guy. I identified with them. Stubby K. I played every Stubby K. Sit down. You're rocking the.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I played every Stubby K part in Summer Stock and Lil Abner. I did all of them. And I guess it's a subset of me. And when I was on Hollywood Squares, famous fat people would. Would do impressions of me, like John Candy and Horatio Sands and Will Sassen. I mean, they were. They would. Even Bob Odenkirk and David Cross. They would bulk up in a fat suit. So I thought, okay, I've made it. I'm a fat actor.

[C]

It's interesting the way you talk about your admiration for all these other actors. It's sort of the way that people of different races or genders or other backgrounds that talk about how representation matters in terms of their demographic.

[A]

Whenever I hear someone say, I like seeing someone who looks like me in office, you know, well, that's okay. I mean, there are a lot of people who look like me who are in office. Yeah. But, you know, the idea that you could actually be heavy and be graceful, which I used to be, you could dance and you could do stuff. It was very appealing. I like that. It was fun.

[C]

Well, we have had wonderful fun with you today. We're just about at the end of our time, Bruce. If people want to find out more about what you're up to or any of your projects, what can they do?

[A]

Go to wegotbruce.com. it's run by a guy who keeps track. I go on every morning to see what I'm up to. He's a BET fan who has a website for her and then started one for me. And I'm so flattered that he keeps doing it.

[C]

And we hope to have you back another time to go through the rest of the topics. Thank you so much for everything. I love it for the show over the years and thanks for spending this time with us today. We really appreciate it.

[A]

It's fun. Thank you.

[B]

Maximum Fun.

[C]

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