← Going Big! with Kevin Gentry
Going Big! with Kevin Gentry
From Humble Beginnings to a National Voice: Erick Erickson on Faith, Grit, and Going Big!
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- [00:01]
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- [01:10]
Erik Erickson
Be Willing to Take a leap of faith if there's something you are passionate about, take a leap of faith. It may take you time, but you should find a way to do that thing. Whether you love to cook and you think, maybe one day I want to open a restaurant, you should begin to explore the avenues of okay, I like to cook for my family. Now how can I cook for a larger group? Okay, now that I cook for the larger group, maybe what do I do with the pop up? Can I do that? And if you're passionate about something, whatever it is, horticulture, I don't care. And you want to. You want to spend more time with it, take the leap of faith. Look, I'm a big believer in divine providence and my life is filled with these accidents of history that just happen to work out. And I got to say, God's got a plan for every one of us. And if you're called to a passion, seize on that passion. And it might be hard and you might fail along the way, but you're going to be far happier if you follow your passion instead of just sitting on the sidelines wishing away your life.
- [02:14]
Kevin Gentry
Welcome to the Going Big Podcast. I'm your host, Kevin Gentry, and this is the place where we celebrate bold moves and big ideas. Each week I sit down with inspiring leaders, entrepreneurs and change makers who are making a significant impact in their careers and in their communities. Whether you're looking to level up your leadership, pursue your passion, or just get inspired to take your next big leap, this is where those stories come to light. Now, if you're listening on iTunes, YouTube, or anywhere else you tune into podcasts, be sure to hit that subscribe button so you'll Never miss an episode. Now let's dive in to what it means to truly go big. Well, ladies and gentlemen, it's a great pleasure to be with you again and to be with our guest today, Erik Erickson. As you may be familiar, Eric Erickson is a prominent political analyst. He's an activist in many ways. He's a conservative topic talk show host, radio talk show host. He's been a blogger, he's a podcaster. He's in many ways a lot of things that we like to describe at going big in terms of just constantly trying to figure out how he can take a certain message further. And he's always, I think, pushing the envelope to say, how can I go big next? So I'm thrilled, Eric, to have you on in terms of the inspiration and example that you set. But we got a lot to talk about, about how you have always been on the cutting edge of the media landscape, about the newest next trend. And you have a tremendous history. You were in politics. You were a city councilman in Macon, Georgia. You became a highly effective blogger and then radio talk show host. You founded the Resurgent. You were the editor in chief of Red State. And of course, we also see you on Fox News and CNN as a political commentator. So it's a pleasure to have you. We got a lot to talk about today.
- [04:16]
Erik Erickson
Thanks so much for having me.
- [04:17]
Kevin Gentry
Well, I want to start, Eric, thank you. One of the things that is your trademark is the Reagan esque manner in which you approach so many important issues of the day historically as well, but issues that we currently address. So I want to ask you, in terms of going big, are you optimistic about the future of America today? Are you still bullish on on the United States? And do you think we still have the opportunity to go big in our lifetime?
- [04:52]
Erik Erickson
You know, I do. Several people I follow, they all use the same phrase, decline is a choice. And I do think it's a choice. And I do think there are some who have made the decision that they do want to decline, but I overall remain optimistic. You know, at this point in world history, we're still the only nation where people are willing to die to get to it, to become citizens or at least live here. The illegal immigration we've seen in this country I think is a real problem. I'm a big fan of securing the border. But also they're not doing this to other countries, they're doing this to us. People are traveling from around the world, flying into Mexico or Canada and then walking through forest or desert to get to the United States. And I think that means something. The cultural capital of the United States is still supreme. No one is trying to imitate the cultural capital of China. Capital of China. No one's trying to illegally immigrate into China. People are fleeing China. They want to be American citizens. That gives me hope. I think there's a level of despair in the country on both sides of the aisle. People have forgotten what it means to be American. We've had such good times. People can focus on the small little thing that itches their skin instead of the big picture. And a lot of people have gotten very self absorbed, I think in let me find the thing to complain about. But at the same time, we're still the greatest country that ever has been. We're the country people want to emulate. We're the country people recognize as number one, and we should be glad for that. A decline is a choice some people want to make. But at the same time, I think there are too many people who are still so supportive of the United States that will come out on the other side. Okay, well, here, here.
- [06:39]
Kevin Gentry
I love that. And you know, if you ever want inspiration, I think we all have our Uber stories. Wherever we are, we have an Uber driver and we find out the Uber driver is an immigrant and they're just so happy to be here. And the stories they have in and of themselves are very inspiring. All right, so I want to get now into to Eric Erickson personally and your story because again, that's an element of the going big. I want to talk about, if you would. Let's start off. Tell us a little bit about your own personal upbringing and what was it that got you kind of prompted to go into. Into politics, into conservative politics and just where you are today. How did it all start?
- [07:18]
Erik Erickson
Oh, so I am from a very tiny town in Louisiana, very tiny. But when I was five, we moved to Dubai for my dad's company, worked for an oil company. And it was a unique upbringing in that every three months our visas had to be renewed. And so we started traveling the world. My dad's company would pay for a week's vacation basically every three months. We would always come home during the summer to see my grandparents. But so I'm still been at in almost 50 now. Been to more countries than states still, and getting to see the unique aspect of American leadership in the world. In the 1980s with Reagan as president, my, my mother, you know, my books and stuff got mixed up. So you had two containers you would ship. One was by air, one was by Sea. The one from Sea would take six months to get there. The one by air would arrive about a week after you moved to Dubai. And my books and things as a kid got mixed up. So my bedtime reading at night instead of the little golden book of whatever was National Review. My parents were Democrats, but conservatives, they love William at Buckley. So bedtime stories were National Review. My comic strip was the comics that you found in the middle of National Review. So I guess you could say I was indoctrinated at an early age. But at the same time it comported to what I saw as reality. Strong leadership from Ronald Reagan around the world and politics became a way for me. I wasn't a big athlete growing up. We didn't have a lot of sports over there unless you want to do camel racing. But it became a way to connect back to the homeland and moved back to the states when I was in 10th grade to rural Louisiana. I wound up going to school for a time in rural Mississippi, about a 30 minute drive from the house until the Gulf war started and gas prices got to the unbelievably high level of A$25. And my parents decided I needed to go to public school instead. And public school in Louisiana was a culture shock. Having come from a very elite school on the far side of the world to a very rural school with a high literacy rate. I was well ahead of every kid in the school just from my upbringing and wound up actually becoming the part time French teacher in the school because I'd had it since sixth grade and one day the French teacher just disappeared. So they put me in charge of it as a 10th, 11th grader in school. And it was, it was a remarkable upbringing to go from such an interconnected global school to rural Louisiana. And politics just kind of became a thing I paid attention to and got involved with and my teachers encouraged it. So I went to college, started working for a guy running for Congress in the 94 wave. He got elected. I stayed on his campaign and he told me that I should go to law school because politics, law degree was like an MBA for politics in Washington where I wanted to go work. Then I got married to a girl who hated the big city and she's like, we're not moving to Washington or Atlanta. So I stayed in middle Georgia, got involved in politics and didn't like practicing law that much, but loved writing about politics. Red State took off and it kind of opened the door for the rest of my life to be able to go do Ben dominate Josh Trevino, Mike Krabaski started Red State and put me in charge of it very early on. And it just was the thing that opened every door for me.
- [10:28]
Kevin Gentry
Well, you're mentioning some great names, so that's that. What a fascinating story. And, you know, this year we celebrate the 100th birthday of William F. Buckley. And Buckley was such an important influence on so many people. But it's frequently it's some influential person, some political leader, maybe it was a, you know, a teacher. Somebody could have. Whatever could be, really, is so formative to a person's initial steps along the journey. Well, here's my next question related to that. So, yeah, you. You took that route, which many of that time did, and that is you could get involved and active in a campaign, but you went to law school. That was the route to take. But then as you, whatever, you got bored with it, whatever. But you, you started in the media space when it was changing a good bit. Tell me a little bit more about how, what, what took you into that beyond just that description you gave and what were some of those days like then? And then I'll come back to you and ask you about 2009, 2010.
- [11:34]
Erik Erickson
So, you know, I was always interested in politics. And when I was in law school, I was the only kid in my class who wanted to do election law. In fact, it was unheard of at the time. My advisor in law school didn't even know what to do. So he actually paired me with the Secretary of state in Georgia at the time, Democrat Kathy Cox, who was actually great at getting me involved in learning election law, got involved in my law firm and started running an election law practice. And I was one of five people in Georgia who did it. And outside of that, started running political campaigns. It fell into it by accident, actually. I was the lawyer for a guy running for Congress. He and his campaign manager didn't quite get along. I wound up running the end of the campaign, and he sent me to campaign management school, started running other people's campaigns. And along the way, Red State starts. And I really, I would probably still be a lawyer, except there's this thing called a client. And they all had problems that were easy to solve, and they never wanted them solved the easy way. It got very frustrating, and Red State had taken off. I was spending way more time at my law firm writing on Red State than practicing law. And you'll have to forgive the little bit of language here, but I had a partner in my law firm come in one day, close the door, and he said, do you Know what the definition of a dumbass is? And I said, I have no idea. He said, you. You are. Said, you hate practicing law. You love politics. Look at what Red State's doing. You need to figure out a way to get out of here and go do politics. And it really. My eyes were open at the moment, and he said, when you leave, come back and run my campaign. I want to be a judge. And that friend of mine, I actually ran his campaign. He became a Superior court judge in Georgia and is now the local federal judge President Trump appointed him. But that was kind of my impetus. I need to go do something. So I took a job in Washington for a year at a trade association and had to write at Red State under a pseudonym for that time as the site was growing. And then after a year, we put up ads on Red State and started making more money than we ever expected. And I was able to just stay home in Georgia, not have to commute, and ran Red State. And along the way, Brett Bozell, the Media Research center, was a friend, and he cornered me one day, and he said, whatever you do, kid, don't move to Washington. You're going to lose your voice. And so I made a conscious decision, based on my conversation with Brent Bozell, to stay in Middle Georgia and try to be a conservative voice from the heartland and position myself as such instead of trying to move inside the Beltway and being a Beltway insider, which I never really wanted to do to begin with. And it really. I mean, God is. Is providential, and he opened these doors for me, and Red State just took off with Republicans in Congress. We positioned ourselves as conservatives, and we weren't party apologists. We were conservatives, and that's who I was. And we were conservative activists, and so we would challenge the Bush administration. We knew we had something when the Bush administration set up an account at Red State to respond to our criticisms. And ultimately, I got invited up to the White House to meet people at the White House, met Tony Snow when he was press secretary and others, and realized, you know, we're a confrontational voice with Republican power, but also we're credible now. We have an audience that listens to our takes and realize we had hit on something and found the sweet spot in Republican politics of being authentically conservatives on the inside of the tribe, willing to criticize the tribe from the inside, and it mattered to people.
- [15:11]
Kevin Gentry
Well, this is. This is great. And you've hit on a number of things. First of all, you do hear often in political active activism that you fall into different areas you don't really have a clear path to. I'm going to do it this. Some people think big and say I'm going to run for president or I'm going to be the next governor of this state. But it is falling into some of these things. But I love your reference to again, additional mentors and advisors like Brent Bozell and others. But let's talk a little bit more about Red state. So in 2009, 2010, we were at this moment, you can talk about what was going on in the country then, but it was similar to what you described earlier with respect to 1994. We have these key moments where there's just a lot of passionate electricity among people rising up over concerns about different things. But the Washington Post described Red State as highly influential voice. And you'd gone from like 500 email subscribers to over 70,000. What. Tell us a little bit about that because it certainly speaks to your increasing effectiveness and louder voice. But, but what was going on help us understand.
- [16:25]
Erik Erickson
So I had struck up a friendship with Rush Limbaugh as, as Red State rose, he started referencing us in, in 2004 and at some point in having conversations with him and really liking talk radio. This is. Well before I was in talk radio. I thought, you know, one of the things I should do is maybe send out an email in the mornings from Red State. Of all the things that really conservatives need to pay attention to call it the morning briefing. And honestly I. So by then Eagle Publishing had purchased us and I had access to their email system and just started sending emails. And I didn't tell them I was doing it. And then I started adding a local radio show hosts, program directors around the country who are conservatives. And next thing I know, local radio stations are talking about Red State. And it just became this virtuous cycle of, of local morning conservative radio talk shows are talking about what we're doing at Red State. People are coming in to subscribe. The email list is growing. And before I knew it, I got a call from my boss at Eagle Publishing wanting to know why I was sending out so many emails every day. And it was actually, it was, it was showing up as a, as a cost for them. It was unmonetized. I didn't know anything about advertising and emails and stuff like that. It's like, well, I've built this email list. I'm sending out an email every morning. We're calling it the morning briefing. And it's, it's what we're talking about at Red State. It's like, well, how many people is it? Like 70,000 people. And they were just floored that, I mean, literally I had started with 500 people and it was about a year it hit 50,000 and then another year it went from 50 to 70 and they started. Red State had been this thing they bought, didn't know what to do with and weren't making money was suddenly it was a profit center. By just embedding a couple of ads in this email and it turned into this who's who list of readers totally organically. You had this speaker of the House was reading it, the head of the Republican Study Committee. And I knew at some point that we were really latching onto a movement because I got a package in the mail at it was a copy of Russell Kirk's the Conservative Mind. And there was a note on the inside of it said, if you're going to be a leader of the conservative movement, you need to understand what the conservative movement means. Kind regards, Mike Pence. Oh, wow. I was like, I, we've latched onto something here. And it just, it kind of exploded from there. And it was just me realizing that this is the rise of the Tea Party movement. People are looking for ways to connect online and find out what's going on. And me and Macon, Georgia, I guess it was kind of a safe thing. People in Washington could call me, knowing I wasn't in Washington, D.C. they could tell me what was going on and, and I could relay it to people. I had the trust of these people in D.C. i wasn't saying who it was and built a reputation for being able to, from my home in Macon, Georgia, sitting on the couch, be able to convey to people across the country what was really happening in Washington.
- [19:27]
Kevin Gentry
Well, what a fascinating story because having now, I mean, been sort of a spectator or, you know, different part of that effort at the time, Red State was everywhere. Every state was being talked about. So now I know the backstory. This is, this is great. And there's certainly something to be said for being a consistent, principled voice. And I want to come back to that. Love your point about just staying in the heartland. So as a result of your success at Red State, you became a sought after political commentator. Suddenly we were seeing you on Fox and CNN and other places. And then you became a radio talk show host. How did that happen?
- [20:05]
Erik Erickson
So in 2009. So I guess I should back up. So in 2004, Red State has taken off. Now there are no community blogs on the right. There's Daily coast and several others on the left, where they have a leadership voice of writers, but then anyone in the community can chime in, good stuff gets put on the front page. And so Mike, Ben and Josh, when they started Red State, that explicitly was them. They wanted a community blog with a roster of regular writers and then a diary section that any conservative could go write on. And they started it. And so in 2004, MSNBC had not really consciously moved to the left yet. They were clearly headed there, but they weren't. Joe Trippy had left the Howard Dean campaign. It had imploded. He had the rise of the grassroots and blogger movement. MSNBC had hired him and he decided they wanted to blog the election in 2004. So at Red State, I was the only one who wasn't involved in a government job or practice. And so they told me, go to New York and be our guy. So I was the one conservative, three, three liberals and me at MSNBC, me from the right. And once, right after 2004, they made the conscious decision they're headed to the left. So they stopped talking to me. Never heard anything again, didn't do anything. Had occasional show up on fox news. In 2009, a lady calls me out of the blue. I don't even know how she had my number and said she had been the person who set that up at MSNBC with Joe Trippy. She's now at cnn. They're launching a new show with John King, and they wanted to find a heartland conservative, someone not from dc, to kind of be a voice of conservatives. Did I want to do it? And I was like, yeah, that would be fantastic. So I started it on TV first, where so many people go from TV and radio to blogs. I started on a blog, went to CNN, and then in 2010, while at CNN, very. Just providential, fortuitous, whatever. Local radio show host here in Macon, Georgia, got arrested in a crack house, literally. Now, he was high as a kite, not on crack, apparently. Marijuana, doing a rap label. And the local radio station called and said, you're, you're on cnn. You run Red State. Any interest in doing talk radio? I had none. But I was like, you know what? Rush was a friend. And he was like, you know, just, just give it a shot. So I did two days on talk radio, 6:00am to 9:00am Now, Kevin, you should know I'm not a morning person to this day. I would rather stay up until 3am working and then sleep till noon than have to get up at 3:00 in the morning to do a 6 to 9am radio show. But I did it for three days. And at the end of the three days, they fired the guy and they asked if I would keep going. So I did it for three months. I didn't get paid, actually. I got paid. It was an expired gift certificate, Outback Steakhouse. That was my payment. But while this was happening, Herman Cain had decided he wanted to run for president. And he had actually come to an event of mine, a gathering that I did in 2009, and told me he was thinking of doing this.
- [23:11]
Kevin Gentry
And to be clear, at that time, he was a prominent radio talk show host.
- [23:14]
Erik Erickson
He was a prominent radio show host on WSB Radio in Atlanta. It's the largest talk station in the country. It was back then Herman told me this might be coming. And so the president of the Cox Media Group, as I understand it, was driving from Atlanta to Orlando through Macon, Georgia, where I was on the radio, heard me and thought it was my radio show. Called his head of talent and said, here's the guy to replace Herman. They reached out to me about doing a weekend show, and I said, no. I mean, I'm doing cnn. I'm. I'm on Red State. It's. It's. By then, I'm on city council as well in Macon. And it's like, this is too much. I can't. So then he called back, said, actually, we want you to replace Herman. And they had no idea it wasn't my show. In fact, they reached out to a number of people, including Rush Limbaugh, who told them, absolute radio professional, you should hire him. They didn't know I wasn't a radio guy until after they hired me, signed the contract, and started radio January 11, 2011. And only then did they know that I actually don't even know how to control a radio board. To this day, I don't know how to control a radio board. All I know how to do is talk.
- [24:23]
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- [25:23]
Erik Erickson
Wow.
- [25:24]
Kevin Gentry
Well, Eric, as I said at the outset, you've always been on the cusp of new media trends. And so, you know, if people are not familiar with the sort of history of blogs and history of talk radio and things, this may not sound as, as easy to comprehend. But you were there at each of these steps along the way. So tell us a little bit more about Rush Limbaugh. You, you, you became a substitute for him many times. If you would tell us a little bit about Rush as, as perhaps a friend or a mentor and also comment, if you would, about his role in American media, much less to say what he did with respect to the American conservative movement, American politics and the history of the country at that moment.
- [26:10]
Erik Erickson
So, you know, he was a real friend of mine. In fact, I actually didn't know until a couple months ago. I was doing an event with James golden, who everybody knows as Bo Snurdley, his longtime call screener and producer. I did not know that my relationship with, with Rush was as unique as it was among his guest hosts. We had a very long friendship. We, I very first time I ever emailed it was in 2004 when he mentioned Red State, mentioned me and started emailing back and forth. And then he spoke at cpac. One year we got together in person when I would go down the Palm beach for events. We would connect down in Palm beach. And when I got in radio, he literally like, I didn't know if I really wanted to do radio. And he was very adamant he would never talk to me again if I didn't do radio. He had gone to bat, told him I could do it, I needed to do it, and was a real mentor. I could, I could email him, text him day and night and get a response on how do I do this, what should I do? And he was very good at recognizing the rise of conservative blogs. And as a lot of people on the right, the Wall Street Journal and others were very hesitant to embrace right wing bloggers. Rush was at the forefront. He in his stack of stuff every day. He had links of places he would read and more and more it was, it was blogs, Powerline, Red State, the Corner at National Review. He was willing to embrace no name conservative writers across the country and then elevate us into positions and got me on radio and then let me start guest hosting for him. Which in and of itself was just a wild ride to be able to do. But he elevated conservatism. He recognized that his job, in fact, early on he told me, my job was not to save the world, and it was not to advance conservatism. My job was to entertain. And if I could keep people company, in his words, my job was to keep people company wherever they were, because they were probably by themselves and they were friends with the guy on the radio. And if I could understand that, then I could persuade, then I could promote, then I could change the country, then I could do what I wanted to do. But if I couldn't remember that the first job is to entertain people, everything else wouldn't matter because I wouldn't be good at it. And very much took that to heart. And he has been very gracious over the years until he died, elevating voices outside of the traditional landscape of the New York, Washington media corridor. And I just happen to be one of those people.
- [28:40]
Kevin Gentry
Wow. Well, he was a great guy. And, you know, I happened to be with a dear friend of his last week in Palm beach who just talked about not only was he such a phenomenal entertainer, but he had a relationship with the audience. People felt like they were connected to him, and he loved them, and you could feel that love coming from him, and that was a key to his extraordinary, phenomenal success. All right, so. So again, you're keeping up with trends and things. So what happened next? You. You, the resurgent. The Daily Telegraph in Great Britain has described you multiple times as one of the most influential voices on the Internet. So what's. What's going on, then?
- [29:23]
Erik Erickson
So, you know, it just having. I was at Red State for the editor for 10 years, and over the course of that time, we started doing our gathering every year where we would just. We would bring conservative leaders together with the grassroots to connect on stage. And then in 2015, we had the very awkward gathering where I invited all the presidential candidates, including Donald Trump, and the night before the event was the Fox News debate. It was his time on stage, and he made the statements about Megyn Kelly that were rather aggressive. And I was at Fox News at the time and moved from CNN to Fox and took one for the team and said, you know, if you're not going to apologize, I don't know that I want you there, because you're going to be a distraction to everyone else. Well, little did I realize that me uninviting him would be the distraction. Which, by the way, was. Was Rush reached out to me after it was over and just explained to your audience what you did. Build your trust with your audience. You'll be fine. And I was. But it kind of. I took a stand against Donald Trump in 2016 there, and that really probably put me on the map in ways I wasn't expecting. But also going from the Internet to. To radio and TV and being at Fox, I was also very comfortable by that point that I was someone who had an audience. I didn't know whether I would keep my audience. But it was time to step away From Red State 1 so that I could be my own voice instead of being one of a bunch of people at that website. And also it had been bought by a radio competitor from where I was at WSB Radio in Atlanta. And so it was harder and harder to integrate my radio presence into the website. And I just. I wanted to be free of it. I think they probably at that point started wanting to be free of me as well. And it was actually a good thing. I took a leap of faith that I'm going to go do my own thing. I started for a time the resurgent.com never got as big as Red State, but it allowed me to kind of have my own voice more. And then over time, just decided, you know, instead of running a group blog and someone writing something, and suddenly I'm on defense because of someone else's opinion, I'm just going to do my own substack and tied into my radio show, and I will be the brand instead of trying to do someone else's brand for them. And for the longest time, I had resisted doing that. Does anyone really care what Eric Erickson says outside of a community? Does anyone really care what this guy on the radio says online? And sure enough, people did. And actually, when I moved into national syndication, it was my digital subscribers to my substack that actually covered the cost of me being able to hire salaries and hire people and pay satellite fees and get my show out there. And only this year, Kevin, is my radio revenue larger than my digital revenue. And now suddenly, it's the radio that's making the bulk of my little small company. And the Internet revenue is great, but now I'm back to this virtuous loop where I've got online listeners and I've got radio listeners who then subscribe to my digital publication where then I can get up in the mornings and write what's going on and set the stage for a radio day. And it's just that whole multimedia platform works. And now, though, trying to move it into podcasting and video and stuff. There, there's all of a sudden a lot of components there used to not be and trying to catch up to those.
- [32:44]
Kevin Gentry
All right, well, this is terrific. And I want to bring this sort of segment to wrap this up in terms of your journey because it's fascinating. It's the modern history of the media landscape. I want to in a moment turn it to some more insights that you can share with how to think about going big. But bring us up to speed on where exactly you are today. You touched on a lot of it and kind of couple that with where the media landscape is today. Help us understand you're still, you've got a growing talk radio program. You're WSB in Atlanta, but you have multiple stations, multiple reach national audience. You're a podcaster. You're still a commentator. Where does your voice go as it started way back when as an email source and a, and, and, and, and a blogger to where it is today.
- [33:36]
Erik Erickson
So, you know, it has, I, I've, I've gone from thousands of readers a day now to upwards. I think the last time I, I saw the numbers it was between 5 and 7 million listeners on radio and a huge audience. We, we ended last year. I started a very slow approach of a growing syndicated show when I was guest hosting for Rush. I kept it in Georgia so I could still do his national show when he passed away. My radio station, wsb, it's the biggest talk station in the country, moved me into his slot and allowed me to own syndication rights. And so I had been a kind of independent. So I heart and Cumulus are the biggest talk radio companies in the, in the market. I heart after Rush, that was his market. They went with Clay Travis, Buck Sexton. Cumulus went with Dan Bongino. They just moved to Vince Congolese. And I'm kind of out there trying to convince stations to put me on. And I've gone from 27 stations at the end of last year to 70 stations this week and hope to be at 100 stations this summer. It's slow growing, but it's rewarding. It's a lot of sweat equity building relationships with people. And I'm definitely now more of a radio guy than anything else. We take the radio show, convert it to a podcast. We're actually about to launch a separate podcast but tied to the show. And then I also have this digital audience that reads it globally now. The weird thing, Kevin, about my radio show though is we, we stream it live. You can go to my website, erichsen.com and listen to it anywhere. And I have this wild foreign audience reach, which I wasn't expecting. I have hundreds of listeners a day in Singapore, which is kind of funny to me. And I thought maybe it's just VPN and routing, but we analyze it. Now I've got, I mean, from, from Paris to Singapore, I've got people who tune in, American expats, it seems, who listen to me as their source of news. And I do kind of do it a little different from a lot of people in conservative radio are very, I'm going to give you the party line that I'm going to give you the line, I'm going to throw the chum in the water. It's all about the other side. And there's so much of that. I, particularly when I disagreed with Trump and didn't Support him in 2016, very intentionally took the approach of I'm just going to tell you what's happening. Here's the actual news of what's happening. Having been a lawyer, having lived overseas, knowing people who know things, I'm going to explain to you what's happening and analyze it and then I'll give you my opinion as a conservative on it. And that approach is actually, I think, saved me because people who may disagree with my opinion will at least still tune, tune in and know I'm going to tell them the news. It's not going to be BS and it's going to give a pretty accurate analysis so they themselves can make up their own mind. And now we use my, my email list to say here is every single link of everything I'm going to talk about on my show today. So you don't have to take my word for it. You can read the article for yourself and have your own show, prep for your own mind. And that synchronicity between them has really helped grow everything.
- [36:35]
Kevin Gentry
Well, at a time when trust in the media is just plummeting, you remain a respected and trusted voice and good for you. I mean, that speaks to the strength of your brand and that we know that that's how brands are built with their trusted and admired and respected. So good for you. So last question on this particular subject. You then you have your, this respective voice, but you started a gathering you touched on a little bit. But what is the gathering? What is the purpose? And along with that, just kind of bring us all up to speed on what you see as next for Erik Erickson.
- [37:13]
Erik Erickson
So back in 2009, we're still at Red State and we're now this group blog. We've. We've got thousands and thousands of people around the country who are coming every day. We've got hundreds of thousands people reading every day. So I put up a post one day on the front page and said, hey, we've been doing this since 2004. We all know each other online. Who wants to come grab a beer in Atlanta? And shockingly, like, 700 people said yes. And I was like, oh, this is bad. So my buddy Caleb Howe, who's now over at Mediaite, he was my number two at Red State and had thankfully been an event planner. He's like, we got to do something. So we put together this event in Atlanta. We didn't even tell the bosses until I needed a credit card number to reserve a hotel space. And we found people to help underwrite the cost of it. And we invited some people that we had been rooting for who were not in elected office at the time, who were running for elected office. Maybe they had been elected at one time. And so we invited a guy from Florida who was running for the Senate named Marco Rubio. We invited a state representative from South Carolina who was running for governor, named Nikki Haley. We invited another guy from Texas who was thinking about getting a Senate race. His name was Ted Cruz. And so our very first gallery, we had Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Nikki Haley. We had Liz Cheney, Pat Toomey, who was running for the Senate at the time from Pennsylvania. And we had like, 500 people show up, and we kept the cost really, really low for the grassroots. Well, the next year, we did it, and we moved it to. To Austin, Texas. And Rick Perry turned out to have been a reader of the site, had no idea, found out we're going to do it in Austin, Texas. Said, hey, you want me to do a get together and welcome people to Austin and I'll come play a role? I was like, absolutely. And so that in 2010 was actually. We invited Herman Cain, and he whispered in my ear and said, I think I'm going to run for president. So I knew before Cox Media Group knew and when they asked me to replace him. So then in 2011, we did it in Charleston, South Carolina. Nikki Haley helped us put it together in Charleston. And Rick Perry came, announced he was running for president. And it just became. It took on a life of its own. And when I left, it all kind of fell apart and realized it was. I hate to say it this way, and it sounds very arrogant to say, but it was kind of flattering that when I left, it wasn't sustainable because they were all coming because I invited them. And when I got into radio and started growing in radio, we started doing it again until Covid intervened and my producer was helping me put it together. It was so frustrating. He's like, I can call and say, I'm calling from the Eric Erickson show. We'd like you to come. And they won't respond, but if you'll call and ask them, they'll show up. And we really. We picked it back up. We started doing it again. We've done it the last several years. We invited all the presidential candidates again. And it's just a way to bring the grassroots. I mean, we keep the ticket. Kevin, you know what some of these major conferences are? We never charge more than 99 bucks because the grassroots should have a cheap conference to be able to come to and see the future leaders America. And we find great sponsors. We partnered with Americans for Prosperity. Meta has been a sponsor of it. A lot of great groups in Washington and around the country have just helped us do an accessible conference for the grassroots. And it has taken on a life its own. Now this year we're doing it a little different. We're going to do small ones around the country because we just don't have the bandwidth for a massive conference this year with radio growing like it is. And it's a way to get out and meet our radio audience now around the country.
- [40:46]
Kevin Gentry
So if somebody listening wants to attend a gathering event, how can they find out about it?
- [40:51]
Erik Erickson
If they go to Eric Erickson.com we have it. We haven't started advertising them yet. We're going to start doing that probably another month. But we're going to go to, for example, we'll go to North Carolina, Southern Pines and Pinehurst area will be in Kansas City. We'll go back to Oklahoma. We're now on the radio out in Sacramento, California. So we'll, we'll go out there and then we've got several in Florida. So we're in the verge of locking those down and finding the speakers and just working with our radio affiliates Now. Radio is an odd economy now. It's not doing great. And what I'm finding is I can tell radio stations, you know what, we'll show up. I'll use my street cred to get people and put me on the air. We'll bring your audience in and we'll take care of all the costs so you can do an event and monetize it without having to worry about covering my costs. And that's Starting to work as a model, moving forward. Forward to help local radio stations kind of rebuild their audience.
- [41:44]
Kevin Gentry
All right, well, let's bring it forward to the modern day. Eric, you touched on. I'm so glad you even mentioned challenging the Bush administration. I remember back in the early 2000s, I was at the Mercato center at George Mason University, and Tyler Cowan, our general director, wrote a piece critical of Bush spending. And a lot of people reacted very negatively to it, like, why are you attacking President Bush? And I went to Tyler, I'm like, you know, this is really controversial. He says, yeah, but it's the right thing. And now looking back, like, yeah, spending did explode there. Somebody needed to stand up and do it. And just frankly, as you did, respectfully, the way you challenged then Donald Trump as a candidate back in 2015, 2016. Thank you for doing that. You do have to call balls and strikes, and frankly, not enough people are doing that today. So just give us your sense on things today. I know that there's a lot of policy that's coming out of this new administration that you and I would probably agree with, certainly in terms of deregulating the massive regulatory state or extending the tax cuts or some of the other efforts to cut spending, but only cut the size and scope of the federal government. But on the other hand, tariffs give us a lot of heartburn. Where are you on all that and how do you speak to audiences about this?
- [43:09]
Erik Erickson
You know, it's harder and harder to do. And in fact, there have been a number of radio stations that have declined to take my show now because they perceive me as not being sufficiently maga, and it puts me at a disadvantage. But I think long term, it pays off because I'm the same guy that I was challenging the Bush administration. People are way more defensive now. Partisan politics is more tribal than it was back then. And people don't like anyone on the inside criticizing from the inside. It's a sign of disloyalty. But I think you've got to. And the reason that I think this goes back to 2005, 2006. In 2005 and 2006, Bush was president. The Republicans control Congress. And I was at red state, very, very critical of the behaviors of the Republicans in Congress, the out of control spending, Bush's immigration plan, and his willingness, in his gut reaction, to put Harriet Meyers on the Supreme Court, which ultimately got killed. In fact, I played a role in killing that. I was the guy who reported she'd given money to Al Gore the morning her nomination came out. Thanks to a well placed White House source who made sure I knew. And I just, even now I'm like, if the voters are going to hold us accountable if we don't clean up our own side, if we don't offer sound policy, if we don't protect the interests we claim to protect. So now here I am on the radio 2025. I didn't support Trump in 2016. I did in 2020, in 2024, in fact, the people who tell me I've got Trump derangement syndrome or I'm anti Trump, I find I've given him way more money than any of them have. But yeah, there are things I don't like. I think tariffs are a terrible idea. I think economically, historically, it's never turned out great. I don't think this is going to be any different. And I think being someone on my side who values intellectual honesty, I've got an obligation to stand up and tell my listeners and readers I like so much of what he's doing. I want him to continue. And I'm afraid that if he goes down this road further, this policy is going to cost him everything. This policy is going to enable Democrats to take back charge in Washington at a time they won't perceive that they've done anything wrong. They'll just double down on what they did that cost them to trust the American public. We shouldn't want them back in power. Therefore, we should want the President to succeed. And I think this policy is going to hurt him. And that's how I view it. It's deeply unpopular with a segment of the right, but I think it's got to be done.
- [45:43]
Kevin Gentry
Well, I couldn't agree with you more, Eric, and thank you for. You've got a much bigger megaphone than I do, but thank you for speaking up in this regard. It's the right thing to do. We've been told since, you know, we were children that honesty is the best policy. And I was talking to someone this morning who was, you know, pretty knowledgeable. He said, you know, what's so upsetting about the tariffs is 80% of the Republicans in the House and the Senate know the tariffs are a bad idea. They just won't speak up. And it's just mind blowing. Oh, it's just so frustrating.
- [46:11]
Erik Erickson
Well, I gotta say, it's one of the things that keeps me going on this is the amount of private encouragement I get from even people inside the White House who they know that people do pay attention to what I write and read and that just being that voice out there saying this is a bad idea is helpful to them.
- [46:28]
Kevin Gentry
Well, good for you. Well, another area that you have been willing to speak up, and I applaud you for it, is your Christian faith. You know, there's a, there's a lot of, there are a lot of people who just are scared to speak up and feel like they might be rejected for what they're, what they're speaking up about. If you wouldn't mind if I could put you on the spot, tell us a little bit about how your own personal faith journey influences how your, your public demeanor.
- [46:55]
Erik Erickson
So, you know, this one's kind of difficult to talk about. I was probably not a very good radio show host before 2016, when I really took a strong stand against Donald Trump, that he, I'm a conservative. He's not. I can't support him. And in the spring of 2016, now let me, let me back up and say on my radio program, the very first year I started in 2011, I had never worked at a company in my life where you didn't have off on Good Friday. And I told him, if I'm going to work on Good Friday, I'm going to do a show about Good Friday. They had no idea what that meant. And when they heard the show, the management of my radio company said, you cannot ever do this again. You're not a religious program. You're not on a religious station. You can't talk about faith on the radio. When they went to the office that Monday, everybody's voicemail had been filled up over the weekend thanking them for the show, asking for a copy of the show. So now not only do I do a Good Friday show, they made me do a Christmas show as well. And the audience loves it. Radio stations across the country despise it. It's very on the nose theological for three hours on Good Friday. They don't like it. The audience loves it. And I finally decided that I have this platform. I should probably go to seminary because I started getting invited to preach on Sundays in churches and it made me very uncomfortable. I could talk about my faith, but I didn't know the depth of it. So if I'm going to get asked to preach, I should go to seminary, oddly. So I went to a Reformed theological seminary, rts. They're headquartered in Mississippi. A lot of Presbyterians, I grew up Southern Baptist. I'm in a pca Presbyterian, Presbyterian Church now. So I went there. They've got an Atlanta campus. When all these little independent churches found out I was at a Reformed Seminary. They're like, maybe we don't want you in our so rarely do I get a chance to preach, but I realize my show is my pulpit, and I am a Christian. It is who I am. I should talk about that. It is my worldview. I should remind people that when Republicans lose elections, that too, is God's will. Nothing happens but for the sovereignty of God. And as it has gone on now, I find it's a way to connect with an audience that may disagree with me about Donald Trump or another issue, but they also know that I am. I have the position I have because of my faith, and so they respect that. It really, though it all came together in 2016. I had been struggling with breathing and thought it was allergies at first, and then I thought, I'm just out of shape. I'm old. And I want to say it was March or April 2016. Went to the My wife finally made me go to the doctor because I was out of breath. Just laying down in bed. She's like, there's something wrong. This is not allergies. Went to the doctor. Doctor sent me to the hospital for a CT scan. Next thing I know, they're strapping me to a gurney, they're wheeling me into a room, and they're like, you have 24 hours to live. You need to call your family. My wife, by the way, was trying to call me, and she had had a misdiagnosis back in 2006. She was given six months to live back in 2006. Misdiagnosis. They thought she had some very rare form of cancer, which she did not have. So I'm being wheeled in, told, you, got to call your family. Your lungs have filled up with blood clots. Your blood oxygen level is right at 80%. If it gets below 80%, this becomes very bad very quickly, and we don't think you're going to live. And my wife is calling me to tell me that the Mayo Clinic had called her based on her misdiagnosis from 10 years before. They thought she had a rare genetic form of lung cancer, which my wife does. She has stage four lung cancer. It's genetic. They found out. We found out the day they were telling me I had a day to live. Call my family. So I'm in an ICU unit for two weeks. My lungs have filled up with clots. They treat me like a stroke victim on TPA and blood thinner and all sorts of stuff. And laying in bed, it was actually Rush Limbaugh, who was the very first person to call and check on me, which we hardly ever talked on the phone because it was cochlear implant. But he called and wanted to see how I was doing. And we talked about talk radio and that I should use that perspective. And laying in bed unable to do anything, didn't have a laptop, just my cell phone. I started thinking, you know what? If I were to die tomorrow, my kids would probably read about me and it wouldn't be fantastic stuff, given the personality I had on radio and how I wrote. And I decided, you know what? I need to be less of a character and more a Christian who has strong views but also knows I got to love my neighbor. And that really, that, that near death experience really changed how I did radio and how I wrote that. I've got to, I got to write as someone who really does believe there's heaven and hell. I got to write in a way that I really do believe there's accountability for myself and everyone else. And I've gotten a right in a way that I got to write in a way that I'm telling people what I really believe is true, not what I think they want to hear, because I think what's true matters more. And I say even now on radio, it just, it kind of hit me at that moment that, you know, if Jesus says, I'm the way, the truth and the life, that means we can actually know the truth. And it's an objective thing. It's not my truth and your truth. And so I should, when I cover the news, I should cover it. And I started doing this in 2016, not supporting Trump, even in the general. I. Someone actually asked me on Fox News, if you had to choose between Trump and Hillary, who would you choose? I said, the bullet. And I just. I needed to be that guy. I needed to be someone who could tell everyone, it's going to be okay. We're all going to be fine. I've read the end of the book. It ends fine. We're on the winning team. Don't worry about this stuff as much. Love your neighbor, seek the welfare of your community. That's where you're going to find your welfare. And it really did change my tone in how I write more than anything else, just because I do. I mean, I believe this stuff. And if I believe it, I should convey it to people that, yes, it doesn't matter if Donald Trump loses the election, if it doesn't matter if the Republicans lose. God's got a plan. This is part of it. You're gonna be okay.
- [52:56]
Kevin Gentry
Thank you so much for sharing that, Eric. I thank you. And your point about if you believe it, you need to share it. Good for you. That's some important advice a lot of us could take today. I think I should take heed as, as well. Well, the. My next questions. One of the wrap up questions is now more interesting. Based on what you just shared, I like to ask, you know, consider a younger version of yourself. What advice, knowing what you now know today, would you give that younger version of yourself? What, what, what younger version?
- [53:37]
Erik Erickson
You know exactly. That you don't have to be a jerk, have passionate views, but also something. The late theologian Tim Keller got to be a friend of mine and he told me something and I can't remember when, but I know it was after that event in 2016. He said, if you really believe scripture, if you really believe from beginning to end of scripture, you got to believe that everybody's made in the image likeness of God. So you can't be so tribal in your life that you don't have friends who disagree with you. You got to have friends who disagree with you. You got to have people who have different worldviews than you. Because if we're all made in the image of God, all of us have some kernel of a reflection of God in us and we should try to find that. And maybe we can't. Maybe we realize there's no way I can be friends with this person. But if we don't try, it's part of our journey through life as a Christian that requires us to at least try to love our neighbor. We gotta be so loving of our neighbor that even me, a conservative evangelical Christian conservative who supported Donald Trump, who's a conservative talk radio show host, should make my trans lesbian Islamic neighbor across the street feel comfortable enough that she gives me the key to her house when she goes on vacation because she knows I'm going to be the good steward of the property while she's gone. That's part part of loving our neighbor. There's no carve out, there's no caveat, there's no exception based on someone's political views, sexual orientation or anything else. I gotta love my neighbor doesn't mean I got to agree with them or affirm them, but I gotta love them. And I would reiterate to my younger self that that is how I should approach life.
- [55:18]
Kevin Gentry
Well, Eric Erickson, if we judge you by the company you keep, you've mentioned some phenomenal friends. Mike Pence, Rush Limbaugh, Tim Keller, Herman, that's, that's Pretty nice.
- [55:30]
Erik Erickson
Well, you know, I just, I gotta say my life, the word my wife and I use all the time for my life is surreal for our family. We never asked for this. I didn't seek. Wasn't some. I was gonna be a miserable lawyer in middle Georgia, and it happened. And I've, I've met presidents and prime ministers and all sorts of people. It's just been a, all from Macon, Georgia, where everyone told me I would never amount to anything if I didn't move to the big city. And I didn't. And, and it's just very, very surreal. And I definitely. That's a big believer in Providence.
- [56:02]
Kevin Gentry
Well, with that said, Eric Erickson, close us out. What advice would you give to anyone listening, whether they're in Singapore or Paris or Paris, Texas, or Macon, Georgia, or Sacramento? What advice would you give to those listening about how they should think about going big in their life?
- [56:24]
Erik Erickson
You've got to be willing to take a leap of faith. If there's something you are passionate about, take a leap of faith. It may take you time, but you should find a way to do that thing. Whether you love to cook and you think, maybe one day I want to open a restaurant, you should begin to explore the avenues of, okay, I like to cook for my family. Now how can I cook for a larger group? Okay, now that I cook for the larger group, maybe what do I do with the pop up? Can I do that? And if you're passionate about something, whatever it is, horticulture, I don't care. And you want to spend more time with it, take the leap of faith. Look, I'm a big believer in divine providence and my life is filled with these accidents of history that just happen to work out. And I got to say, God's got a plan for every one of us. And if you're called to a passion, seize on that passion. And it might be hard and you might fail along the way, but you're going to be far happier if you follow your passion instead of just sitting on the sidelines wishing away your life.
- [57:32]
Kevin Gentry
Well, Eric Erickson, it is a pleasure to be with you today. It's an honor to know you and to count you as a friend. And we're looking forward to many more chapters in your life. Ladies and gentlemen, check out Eric Erickson. Eric Erickson.com. that's Erick is the way Eric and Ericson are spelled. The Gathering, his radio show. And just keep on the lookout for Eric. What you're, you're doing great stuff. Thank you for being a part of this today. Eric, thanks for tuning in to the Going Big Podcast. I hope today's conversation left you feeling energized and ready to tackle your biggest goals. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on iTunes, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps spread the word and it gives these inspiring stories out to more people. You can also find more content, resources and updates at our website goingbigpodcast.com Remember, the only limits are the ones you don't challenge the limits that you impose on yourself. Keep pushing, keep growing, and above all, keep Going big. See you next time on the Going Big Podcast.
- [58:43]
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