← Going Big! with Kevin Gentry
Going Big! with Kevin Gentry
Going Big in France: How Alexandre Pesey Sparked a National Movement
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- [00:00]
Talkspace Sponsor
This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. You know when you're really stressed or not feeling so great about your life or about yourself, talking to someone who understands can really help. But who is that person? How do you find them? Where do you even start? Talkspace. Talkspace makes it easy to get the support you need. With Talkspace, you can go online, answer a few questions about your preferences and be matched with a therapist. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You, you'll meet on your schedule wherever you feel most at ease. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or if you want some counseling for you and your partner or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus, Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off of your first month with promo code SPACE80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com, save $80 with code SPACE80 at talk.
- [01:01]
Alexandre Pessy
First, I would say build your base. Build a solid base. Make sure your family is aligned and solid and to to go forward. Second, I would say stay determined on your project, on your vision. Don't listen too much to the people who say you it's impossible, you can't do that, that's not going to work. Sometimes it's wise to listen to them but just continue to go and, and maybe I would also advise them to to think what they, what they're doing would have side effect that are amazing that they don't even notice and would be enthusiastic. Enthusiasm. Enthusiastic. So yeah, keep you keep your past, have your solid base and think big because in one generation you can see amazing change by your work but also by what happened in your environment. There are things will happen that you would never expect could happen and that's what we saw in France in the last 25 years.
- [02:07]
Kevin Gentry
Welcome to the Going Big Podcast. I'm your host, Kevin Gentry and this is the place where we celebrate bold moves and big ideas. Each week I sit down with inspiring leaders, entrepreneurs and change makers who are making a significant impact in their careers and in their communities. Whether you're looking to level up your leadership, pursue your passion, or just get inspired to take your next big leap, this is where those stories come to light. Now, if you're listening on iTunes, YouTube or anywhere else you tune into podcasts, be sure to hit that subscribe button. Subscribe so you'll never miss an episode. Now let's dive in to what it means to truly go big. Ladies and gentlemen, my guest today is someone who has truly gone big in France of all places. Alexandre Pessy is the founder and executive director of the Institut de Formation Politique, or the Institute for Political Training. And he focuses on helping young conservatives in France prepare for leadership in the civil society. His his organization is based in Paris and last month or recently, Alexander was the guest at the ARC conference in London. That's the alliance for Responsible Citizenship that was founded in part by Jordan Peterson. And Alex was invited to speak and that address was extremely popular. Well received, Alex. I think the last time I saw over 225,000 views on YouTube and that encouraged me to want to include you in this particular discussion today. So if you would start us off, help folks understand how have you. How did you think about going big 25 years ago? How would you describe what you're doing today and the product of your 25 years of work?
- [04:13]
Alexandre Pessy
Thank you, Kevin, for your invitation. I'm very happy to speak at your podcast. So 25 years ago, we're in 2000. At that time, the conservative movement in France didn't exist. And as someone always very involved politically or in civil society, you could notice that basically the right was concentrating on political election and was not very present on any other field. Let's take frankly, the left was dominating all the other territories and often were the only one involved in that. So I'm talking about judicial system, media hearts, civil society organization, nonprofit. And when I went to the U.S. i had the chance to meet a guy who told me, hey, young guy, if you want to learn successful people of the right, you need to go to the US So I went there, interned for the Leadership Institute with morton Blackwell in D.C. where I had the chance to have a great professor's institute like Kevin Gentry, for example. I saw firsthand a conservative movement who decide to build alternative system to the Left in the 70s after the Goldwater defeat. So they create training institute, think tank, pressure group. And after see that firsthand and see the results, that in 1980 they elected Ronald Reagan, where at the same time in France we elected socialist president Francois Mitterrand, that basically if you get organized on one generation, you can have concrete and big results. So seeing that went back to France and like, okay, our American friends did big. Why not doing that in France?
- [06:03]
Kevin Gentry
Well, congratulations for frankly having the courage and the resolution to do something like that. The resolve to do something like that you, you definitely went big. And I have to tell you, when you were getting started 25 years ago, I had a lot of doubts. I mean, you know, in France, I'm not so not so sure. So tell us just a little bit more what the situation was like then and what is it like now in terms of free speech, political correctness. The attitudes give us some sense about how you've been engaged in this the past 25 years, right?
- [06:47]
Alexandre Pessy
When you say, yes, you had some doubt. You were not one of the only one in the US to have doubt about that. I often have jokes, oh, you're conservative. And when I create first the Tobit Fellowship with my wife Kate program that bring France in the. In the US we're bringing 6 or 8 conservative every summer, the American would say, oh, please don't fly in the same plane because if the plane crash, we lose the whole conservative movement. In France, there were obviously many doubts that we could have a lot of conservatives over there. Actually, we have a lot of conservative, but they were not organized. They were very divided. Once again, nothing was really structured. You had an intellectual division, you had no institution and you only had control of the political parties. But an American version of rhino. People who run for their personal success. But after every election and every mandate, the people of the right felt disappointed. And it was on every election like that. So we start not listening too many, too much to people who didn't believe in our project and say, it's not going to work. If you do fundraising in France, that's American, it's not going to work. It actually work. You're not going to be able to do your training project on weekends. People are not going to come. Students are not going to come to institute on weekend, teacher are not going to teach on the weekend. Many reasons not to succeed, but all that actually work to tell you what was the situation and what the situation is today. Today, 25 years later, it totally changed. I'm not going to tell you that we now have controlling all the institutions. The left took decades to take over the institution and they're still in their hands. But in many fields you have a major change in politics first. If you look at the political leader of the right today, it's whatever party you looked at, it's strong conservative with backbones. People we'll see if they really have a backbones one they'll be in office. But I think the new generation you see are very serious people and they kind of replace the RHINO I told you about. If you look at the media. 25 years ago, we had no conservative media, no serious conservative media, no Fox News, no Rush Limbo, no Kevin Gentry podcast, nothing. And right now we actually have a totally new media landscape, thanks to few businessmen who decide to buy media. There's a guy called Vincent Boulaut who in five years really changed the landscape in France in both radio, tv, newspaper and today it gives a chance for new face in journalism and new face of guests to appear. And once again, then the debate changed. If you look now in the arts too, you start to have a new movement in the heart to produce movies. All that did exist, didn't exist. And I'm not talking about civil society. We can talk about maybe about it later, but obviously now there's think tanks, pressure group, independent school, all that didn't exist. There was maybe two think tanks 20 years ago, 25 years ago. Now you have dozens of them. And on every topic you have a pressure group of people organized to advance conservative principles.
- [10:19]
Kevin Gentry
Amazing.
- [10:20]
Alexandre Pessy
So it's a very encouraging period we see in the last 25 years.
- [10:24]
Kevin Gentry
Well, encouraging indeed. And I think it should be encouraging for people around the world that you were able to accomplish that. And it required considerable dedication and leadership and patience and, and perseverance. You mentioned Morton Blackwell, an important mentor of yours. You had these principles, your belief in the free society, but you wanted to act on these principles. Explain just even a little bit more about what Morton talked taught you about what was possible. You talk about getting people organized. They were there, but they just needed some help, some instruction, some encouragement, some organization. Comment just a little bit more on that, if you would.
- [11:06]
Alexandre Pessy
Yeah, you're right. The meeting of Morton Blackwell was really a turning point. You know, some few people you meet in your life that make a real change, and Morton Blackwell was one of them. What a simple principle he told me is, Alex, if you want a new leadership for France, why don't you do like we are doing and train new leaders? And that seems very common sense. So after I went back to France to do that, so then he teach us many lessons. He had so many principles, I cannot give them all. But it teaches how to be independent and to raise your own funds. Many conservative group at that time in France were asking for public money. And it really taught me the advantage and disadvantage of public money, but also the advantage of having a wide base of donors. So we implement direct mail techniques and we were told it's not going to work in France. It worked. Now we have 5,000 donors who support our institute. He told us also how to work in coalition. Martin Blackwell often bring students in institute of different background, different tendencies. And he helped them work together in altruism, to study together. And exactly what we did. And we see this virtuous circle happen in France when the right was very divided. Now, many in the newspaper say we were one of the key organization to gather the right, because the new generation spend weekends together and so they get the real good relationship. Martin would also tell you about we don't care about who get the credits. You know, you learn something and maybe someone will take over and that's great. He would tell us all about the pie. Don't see your supporter, donors or speakers like a pie that you have to share. Think it as a pie that should grow and so encourage the exchange, the sharing of all these supporters. And I'm sure I forgot many other principle and advice of Morton Blackwell, but yes, it was a key time.
- [13:24]
Kevin Gentry
Well, excellent. And you hit on some very important principles. We're going to dive into a few more of those. But you're right for a lot of people intuitively think it's a fixed pie and if I take this slice, it's effectively going to take it away from someone else. But it's an expanding pie. We know that from the free market economy as well. Well, well, good for you. And congratulations again for thinking big, for acting big and for. For going big. So, Alex, in addition to the Institute for Political Training, you have a program in journalism where you're helping prepare people for responsible reporting in journalism careers. You also are head of the French Taxpayers association with over 350,000 members who are advocating for sound monetary policy and sound economic principles. Tell us a little bit about that work as well.
- [14:24]
Alexandre Pessy
Yes, thank you for the jurisdiction school. What happened in France is that all the media are journalists coming from the left. And we try to wonder why is it in the gene of a journalist to be on the left? Because if you poll any newspaper, including center right, the Figaro, a big majority of the journalists vote for the left. And so we try to dig why. And one of the key reason we find is that what was logical is that all the journalism school being from the left, all of them, 100% of.
- [14:58]
Talkspace Sponsor
Them, this podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. You know, when you're really stressed or not feeling so great about your life or about yourself, talking to someone who understands can really help. But who is that person? How do you find them? Where do you even start? Talkspace. Talkspace makes it easy to get the support you need. With Talkspace, you can Go online, answer a few questions about your preferences and be matched with a therapist. And because you'll meet your therapist online, you don't have to take time off work or arrange childcare. You, you'll meet on your schedule wherever you feel most at ease. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or if you want some counseling for you and your partner, or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus, Talkspace works with most major insurers and most insured members have a $0 copay. No insurance, no problem. Now get $80 off of your first month with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com save $80 with code space80@talk.
- [15:59]
Alexandre Pessy
There is no surprise that it was hard for any newspapers to find other figures, other type of journalists. So we just decided to break the monopoly of the left on that side. And so we create the Institute Libre de Journalist, which is a training institute on weekends, seminars for students who do that on their sides. I want to go to journalism, but don't necessarily want to join a journalism school. And it has three goals. We did that to test if we could actually find young people who want to enter journalism. Second, it was a way to see also if we have enough journalists to be able to train our young. And third, to find donors and investors for the ultimate goal that was to create a journalism school. And so after seven years we trained 200 students. 120 became journalists. So the return on investment was very high. And we're surprised that even mainstream media were looking for students because they were tired of the kind of woke red hair journey students coming from other schools. And so last November went even further because some of our donors, and we gather other investors, we decided to create a school. And since we learned that the oldest journalism school in the world called UHG Paris was on sale, we bought it. And so next year we won't train 40 students a year, but 400 journalists a year in the next three years. So it's a very encouraging step. We went forward and the second one is a taxpayer union you're talking about. It was the oldest pressure group created in France. The guy who created this institute with this pressure group, sorry, were really the founding father of the French conservative movement because they really copied the model that existed in the US in terms of fundraising, lobbying, influence. And they were able to gather hundreds of thousands of members. And recently, since they were discouraged about the increasing of the debt, the increasing of public expenditure in France. They were tempted to stop the work and I offered them to continue. So four years ago they passed me the key of the institute and we are developing new way to communicate this fight force on the economy. We just published a movie, for example, on the debt who will reach 3.5 million viewer with only 100 Euro of advertisement, which is more than any public channel or TV channel that had a show on these topics. So it's very encouraging. And we have a great director now who is on the media every day to try to fight back. The one who wants more public expenditure. We are the only lobby for less public expenditure. So big, big fight.
- [19:05]
Kevin Gentry
Extraordinary. Alex and I really applaud you. I mean, and you're doing this in multiple areas, but this should be an encouragement to anyone, anywhere in the world. So you mentioned securing philanthropic support, donor support for this work. How did you do that? I mean, others had to obviously embrace your vision that you laid out. You started from almost nothing. How? How did you do that?
- [19:37]
Alexandre Pessy
Well, when we say. You say you started from nothing. It's true. We. I came back from the U.S. i'm like, I'm going to create this training institute. So first you have to find a place so you look everywhere to see who would welcome us to organize our first training seminar. And we had the chance to have one of our first graduates from the Toggle Fellowship, the trip to the US who introduced me to. And yes, Verdier Mollie introduced me to the owner of a castle called Volvicomp. And he said, hey, I give you the castle for a year to launch your institute. So you see how the providence intervened. We had a place, then we look for speakers and they all accept to come for free. And then you had to look for students. And at the beginning, when you create your own known people, like who is behind? Is it a cult? Is it a hidden political party? So they were coming. And the first year we had 16 students who courageously came to our training. The third year were 60 students. And then we grow. And now we welcome 1,500 students every year, with 500 new each year. So regarding the question of the fundraising that you address, we ask to the few associations like the taxpayer Union were the first one who basically gather a file of conservative people and fewer Christian organization if they would allow us to make our project known to their donors. And actually the one who believe in our project did it for free. And that's how we get our first hundred donors. And then we grow, we grow, we grow. We start to exchange with Also other lists. And then we arrive to these 5,000 donors and then what happened is what Kevin Gentry and all this professional fundraising teach you inside your list. You are amazing people. And we had so many case of these donors, for example who gave you €30 60 and you see his name and you're like huh, he sounds familiar. He's in the owner of this huge company. So you meet him and it happened to be the one. And he. He had several zero after his gift for the next gift. And then you dig and they introduce you to another one to another one. And slowly you had a major gift group to the direct mail base. But same we had no major gift. It just a process, a long process that been developed. So it's how we gather all the resources slowly, with patience, with determination. And then word and mouse work very well and people talk between each other. And once again a virtuous circle is in clinch or stuck.
- [22:23]
Kevin Gentry
Excellent. Just really extraordinary. Well, what advice would you have for how to build a team? Hal, you started as you said, with nothing, just by yourself. It was probably pretty lonely at first, but you obviously have to have quite a team now that runs all these efforts. Any, any particular recommendations?
- [22:42]
Alexandre Pessy
Yes, I was clearly not the only one. Even at the beginning maybe to have the vision and the will to start it for sure. But right away I had the chance to have few friends on the board. The founder of IFP and mostly these friends were people I knew and I was active in the university with is old friends you can trust and you know they are there for the cause because you experience engagement with them. The other key elements I would say to build a strong team is to have a great wife, a great husband. Obviously you're a woman, but I had the chance to meet Kate, who is my teammate since the first day. And that's having your family align with your project is such an asset and key. And third then you had other people in the team. And today we have an amazing team of 10 people mostly went through our program. So the best way to find them was to see them in our training in training institute. And the team is wider than just the one working for us. It's also volunteer people who help us. A team of 500 trainees now that we have or so that participate in the, in the training every, every weekend. So it's really try to find people who are dedicated for the cause and show them show it in their past when they were involved in their high school or university. I think it's a key element to make sure they Are there not for job, but they're clear there for cause. And after adding the fact that they're competent and training them to make sure they can give the best of themselves.
- [24:30]
Kevin Gentry
Superb. And some of these very similar lessons that Dario Pio from Chile shared from his experiences too. Really, really outstanding. You mentioned your amazing wife Kate. Tell us just a little bit more about your family, if you would.
- [24:44]
Alexandre Pessy
Yes. So we are. We skate. We have six children from 17. Six children, six. From 17 to 3 years old. You know, we keep repeating the founder, that we're still in a demographic battle, that life is something fantastic. So we had kind of give the example. So we all have six, seven or five children in the team. And so we live next to Paris and we have the chance that our eldest daughter, who's 17, is already very involved today. The second one, Remy, is 15. I'm going to bring him this weekend in Romania to see what's happening there. You may have heard that there is a key presidential election. It's moving a lot in Romania. So I'm bringing some students and him included to make sure they see firsthand what's happening. I'm very inspired by people who brought their kids and I'm thinking of someone like Leonard Leo. Every time I see him, he usually come with one of the kids to. To the events and we try to do that with Kate.
- [25:47]
Kevin Gentry
Outstanding. Well, you mentioned mentors, you mentioned Morton Blackwell, if you would. How important is it to find and learn from mentors and perhaps be inspired by them and who have been some that have been important in your life.
- [26:02]
Alexandre Pessy
I've been inspired a lot by historical figures, you know, who give their life for the cause in France would be like Vercingetorix, Clovis, Genofar. That's for the historical inspiration. And then on everyday basis I had the chance to have an incredible boarding school director director called Yann de Cacre who inspired all generation of very involved guy who joined the army, become priest or join politics or in journalism. Because this man just came out with such a natural authority and he's very clever and decided to live a very simple life with his wife. Just training young people and teach them how to serve God and friends. And when you have the chance to meet people like that, you know you can't be the same and you really reflecting on your life and what goals you're going to give to your life. And that changed everything. And then meeting other people like an entrepreneur, a very successful entrepreneurs like Pierre Edoard in France, a guy who's same age who say I'm going to become a billionaire and when I be a billionaire I will help all the calls for France. And that's what he did. And, and. And this guy always tell me like to think bigger, you know, you get trapped in your everyday life and he tell you how to delegate, how once again to seeing just speakers and always tell me now IFP is working well in France. You need to do IFP everywhere in Europe. They all need that kind of training institute everywhere. I'm not there yet, but it's great to have someone like that who encourage you to think and go big.
- [27:51]
Kevin Gentry
Very, very nice. What is the political situation like today in France and maybe even more broadly in Europe for a young person who has your principles, looking back where you were 25 years ago, the significant challenges. Are you optimistic about the future? We see that the forces of those who use the power of government tend to infringe upon individual liberty. We've seen that a lot. But how do you see the situation?
- [28:24]
Alexandre Pessy
I'm very optimistic. Let's step. Frankly, the challenge are huge and the situation is not. Well, we are nowhere in a crisis. Whatever topics you take, moral, cultural, econ, economic, socially we're in a bad situation for sure. But 25 years ago, as a conservative, you would hide. When I work in journalism, I would hide. I would never tell what I think in politics, same as a conservative, you would be careful not to come out even if you are on the right. Today that's totally changed. Today you can clearly come out as a conservative and be successful in politics. And it's even recommended. And there is a lot of place for young people to come out because you see as old generation of people who are going away from politics because you don't make as much Socially, it's not rewarded the same way. Financially it's not rewarded the same way. So it's actually encouraged people who want to serve to come. And the fact that we're in a crisis, we say when we're in hard time, that's when leaders came out. And that's really what I feel happening in France. The new generation, once again of young leaders are very encouraging, both in politics, but also in the media or civil society. So I think it's an encouraging time. And what you follow, what the measures it takes, the measures it takes to shut down our bank accounts. We are bank account closed, many of them, many of conservative activists, you have administrative control, fiscal control. They encourage you to almost leave the country. They just shut down the main cable TV. Last month, C8 was the much watched cable TV in France and it was conservative. And Macron and his political pointy choose to close it down. What you think was reserved to communist country, it's happening here. You may have heard few days ago, the favorite for the presidential election in 2027, whatever you think of her, was banned for being a candidate to run in the next presidential race when she's 35 in the poll. We're like, like happened in Romania, you know, recently with George Jesku being forbidden to run. So yes, it's becoming harder, they're tougher and I think it's because this year their time is coming.
- [31:07]
Kevin Gentry
Wow.
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Alexandre Pessy
So it's a very encouraging time actually to get ready and to come back and take the, the leadership to address the big challenge we're facing in France, but all over Europe and maybe North America too.
- [31:21]
Kevin Gentry
Well, I think we're all encouraged to hear that. You're encouraged by the challenges you face. That's, that's pretty commendable. Well, Alex, this has been terrific. I have two final questions, two closing questions. The first is looking back on a younger version of yourself, maybe 25, even 30 years ago, knowing what you know now, what would you tell a younger version of yourself to maybe have done any differently?
- [31:49]
Alexandre Pessy
First, I would say build your base. Build a solid base. Make sure your family is aligned and solid and to go forward. Second, I would say stay determined on your project, on your vision. Don't listen too much to the people who say you, it's impossible, you can't do that. That's not going to work. Sometimes it's wise to listen to them, but just continue to go. And maybe I would also advise them to think what they're doing would have side effects that are amazing that they don't even notice and would be enthusiasm. Enthusiastic. So yeah, keep you, keep your past, have your solid base and, and sing big. Because in one generation you can see amazing change. And by your work, but also by what happened in your environment, there are things will happen that you would never expect could happen. And that's what we saw in France in the last 25 years.
- [32:56]
Kevin Gentry
Oh, this has been extraordinary. All right. Well, Alex, basically you have gone big in a bold, bold way. So what final advice would you give to anyone listening anywhere in the world, maybe imagining that they might be in the position you were 25 years ago? What encouragement, what advice would you give for them to go big?
- [33:18]
Alexandre Pessy
What I just say sorry to build, build your, your strong base and, and just, just go for it. Just look what is needed for your country and see what the solution can be. Don't hesitate to go in other countries to see what they did, to listen to older people to teach you the lesson they get the wise people who have a strong experience of stomach to teach. Having the chance to meet people like Morton Blackwell who tell you what they went through for 50 years, it was very, very valuable. So that may be what I would tell. And please join us for the one who are hesitating and listening to the podcast, we need you. We need each of you to be in the movement to make our principle prevail.
- [34:05]
Kevin Gentry
All right, Alexandre Pesay from the Institut de Formation Politique in Paris, France. And again, I would encourage you to check out Alex peise at the ARC conference on YouTube. His speech was really outstanding and you'll learn even more than you did on our podcast today. But Alex, so encouraged by you, so inspired. We really appreciate what you're doing. Thank you so much.
- [34:29]
Alexandre Pessy
Thank you very much, Kevin, for your invitation and also for the past lessons I learned from you. Because I have to tell you how much I learned from you and especially all your fundraising advice and letters you passed away through these years to us, not knowing what result will happen. But I think they were very, very successful. Thank you, Kevin.
- [34:49]
Kevin Gentry
Well, wishing you all the very best. Thank you very much, Alex.
- [34:52]
Alexandre Pessy
Bye Bye, Kevin.
- [34:53]
Kevin Gentry
Thanks for tuning in to the Going Big Podcast. I hope today's conversation left you feeling energized and ready to tackle your biggest goals. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on iTunes, YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps spread the word and it gets these inspiring stories out to more people. You can also find find more content, resources and updates at our website, goingbigpodcast.com Remember, the only limits are the ones you don't challenge. The limits that you impose on yourself. Keep pushing, keep growing, and above all, keep going big. See you next time on the Going Big Podcast.