Going Big! with Kevin Gentry

Episode: Going Big with Art Laffer & Lord Matthew Elliott: Prosperity Through People and Policy

Release Date: October 27, 2025
Guests: Dr. Art Laffer (economist, creator of the Laffer Curve), Lord Matthew Elliott (political strategist, campaign leader, author)
Main Theme: Unlocking national and individual prosperity through the right policies, individual initiative, and a culture of thinking big—with lessons from history, practical policy frameworks, and personal journeys.

Episode Overview

In this inspirational episode, Kevin Gentry hosts two giants of economics and political strategy: Dr. Art Laffer and Lord Matthew Elliott. Fresh from releasing their new book, Prosperity Through Growth: Boosting Living Standards in an Age of Autocracy and Artificial Intelligence, they delve into what truly causes prosperity—arguing that “growth isn’t just an economic goal. It’s a human calling.”

The conversation ranges from the macro (how nations go from stagnation to flourishing) to the micro (the incentives and courage required for individuals and leaders to go big), always coming back to the universal themes of incentives, policy, leadership, and human potential.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Where Does Prosperity Originate?

(04:04–05:21)

• Dr. Art Laffer: Prosperity begins at the individual level, not with government. He argues governments have grown too large, stifling growth.

  • Quote: “If you want prosperity on this planet, reduce government back, cut it back by about 80%...and you could create an enormous prosperity in this planet in virtually every country.” [04:17]

• Lord Matthew Elliott: At prosperity’s heart is the principle that "incentives matter." Governments don’t create wealth—individuals and businesses do.

  • Quote: “We get our wealth, we get our prosperity, by the actions of individuals and companies...it’s not the government that creates our wealth.” [05:21]

2. The Trouble with Government & Why Change Fails

(06:30–08:53)

• Dr. Laffer: Politicians underestimate how entrenched and resistant to change government is. They often start with slogans but get bogged down, losing the drive for true reform.

  • Quote: “The simplicity of solutions is there to create prosperity...it is all about people and it’s all about incentives.” [07:19]
  • Memorable metaphor: Prosperity is lifting everyone: “…a rising tide raises all boats...we’re all in the tub together.” [08:14]

• Lord Elliott: Too often, leaders think only about near-term politics, not long-term national interest. Bold, big-picture thinking and courage are missing.

  • Quote: “What you should be thinking about is what will I do when I’m in office within that parliamentary period? So thinking big and working back from there.” [09:34]

3. The Cost of Not Going Big

(11:02–12:03)

• Practical illustration: In 2000, UK and US living standards were equal; now the US is 40% ahead—a direct result of better growth policies.

  • Quote: “[The UK] people are fighting over a shrinking pie, essentially. And that’s where a lot of the societal tensions and social tensions come from.” [11:24]

• Dr. Laffer: UK’s GDP per capita now ranks below even Mississippi—showcasing dramatic decline due to policy choices.

  • Quote: “Britain’s real GDP per capita is less than the worst state in the US—less than Mississippi. I mean, wow.” [12:38]

4. Lessons from Growth & Decline: Global and Historical Perspectives

(13:19–15:12)

• Dr. Laffer draws on examples:
  • Chile: A turnaround via free-market reforms.
  • Eastern Europe: Success comes from a clear rejection of big government learned under communism.
  • Western Europe: Still clings to government as a solution; misses the underlying point that “the government that’s large enough to give you everything is large enough to take everything from you.” [14:27]

5. The Role of Courage and Leadership

(15:12–17:18)

• Lord Elliott: Margaret Thatcher’s example—facing enormous resistance for policies that were unpopular at the time but required courage and long-term vision.

  • Quote: “Often...the economic policies we talk about don’t poll very well short term. And you need leaders there to explain how by bringing in the policies...everybody [is] better off. But you need that leadership; that...requires courage.” [16:36]

• Both tie success to courage and willingness to pursue unpopular, outcome-oriented policies.

6. Universal Principles for Prosperity: The “Five Kingdoms” of Economics

(17:18–19:08)

• North Star of Economic Growth: To flourish, nations must optimize:

  • Tax
  • Spending
  • Regulation
  • Trade
  • Money

• Not enough to get just one right; all are interconnected.

  • Quote (Laffer): “That was the perfect answer...I would not use the word courage so much as I would dream.” [18:17]
  • Robert Kennedy reference: Imagine what could be—“Why not?”

• Simple Recipe: “Low rate, broad-based, flat tax, spending restraint, sound money, minimal regulations, free trade and get the hell out of the way.” [18:47]

7. Thinking and Acting Big — Personal Stories

(20:09–24:12)

• Matthew Elliott: His founding of the TaxPayers’ Alliance meant choosing an uncertain entrepreneurial route over a safe political job.

  • Quote: “I took the step of actually setting up the TaxPayers’ Alliance...now the UK has a taxpayer group to actually talk about how you need to eliminate government waste, how you need low taxes.” [20:38]

• Dr. Laffer: Turned down a prestigious, “safe” lifelong university position to enter the uncertain, high-stakes world of policy. The “fear of failure” was a driving incentive.

  • Quote: “If I accept this, I will lose all the incentives I have from being afraid to fail…So I quit the university to go out into the real world to where I could lose.” [30:22]
  • Lesson: “You need to be able to love success, but to be terrified of failure. And you need both incentives.” [31:26]

8. The Laffer Curve: The Origins and Impact

(28:51–33:57)

• What is the Laffer Curve? : A classic microeconomic truth—raise taxes too high, and total revenue falls as economic activity collapses.
  • Quote: “You can overtax an economy and lose ground, not get money. It’s been in the economic literature for a thousand-plus years.” [28:53]
  • Popularized in a famous “napkin sketch.”
  • Key metaphor: Policymakers must aim not to maximize revenue, but to maximize prosperity.

9. Who’s Poised To Go Big? Hope in National Turnarounds

(25:05–26:33)

• Matthew Elliott: Dubai is an example—not wealthy in resources, but visionary and open to entrepreneurship.

  • But the UK, he claims, is like a “vintage sports car...the fundamentals are still there [to] be a great economy again.” [25:37]

• Kevin Gentry: Historic “comebacks” possible, as in the UK and US in the ’70s–’80s.

10. Advice for Listeners: How to Go Big In Your Own Life

(33:57–35:39)

• Dr. Laffer: “Follow their incentives, follow their dreams...Dream for the dream...Some people don’t have the ability and the skills to fly to the moon, but they can fly to the clouds.” [34:27]
• Lord Elliott: “Don’t be afraid to ask people things...Shy children don’t get anything.” [35:10]
• Art Laffer (humor): “I hope I’m not making an ‘ask’ out of myself!” [35:42]

11. One-Sentence Billboards for Prosperity (Final Takeaways)

(36:17–37:10)

• Lord Elliott: “The best way to get a really prospering society, a flourishing society, is actually through individual liberty and free enterprise.” [36:56]
• Dr. Laffer: “If you tax people who work and you pay people who don’t work, don’t be surprised if you find a lot of people not working.” [37:10]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dr. Laffer: “It’s not for lack of vision that the British people don’t recreate prosperity. They’ve got this book and they now know how to do it.” [23:45]
• Matthew Elliott: “Thinking big is all about thinking long term.” [09:56]
• Dr. Laffer (humor and humility): “I didn’t invent it, I didn’t develop it...I did bring it back, but I also didn’t name it. That was Jude Wanniski at the Wall Street Journal...But I love it and I don’t want to ever change it.” [29:36]

Key Timestamps

• 04:04: Dr. Laffer on origins of prosperity; call to drastically reduce government
• 05:21: Lord Elliott on incentives at the heart of prosperity
• 07:19–08:14: Laffer on simplicity of solutions and “a rising tide raises all boats”
• 09:34: Elliott on need for leaders to think long term and “think big”
• 11:24: Elliott on UK’s loss of economic ground vs. US
• 12:38: Laffer: UK's GDP per capita now less than poorest US state
• 13:50–14:27: Laffer contrasts Eastern and Western Europe; warns about government overreach
• 16:36: Elliott: Thatcher’s courage and visionary leadership
• 17:20: Laffer & Elliott outline the “five kingdoms” of economic policy
• 20:38: Elliott’s personal story: founding the TaxPayers’ Alliance
• 28:53: Laffer on the Laffer Curve: “It’s been in the economic literature for a thousand-plus years.”
• 30:22–31:26: Laffer on leaving academia for the “real world” and the role of positive and negative incentives
• 34:27–35:10: Their advice for individual action: follow dreams, overcome fear, and don’t be afraid to ask
• 36:17–37:10: Their billboards for prosperity—liberty, free enterprise, and the basic lesson of incentives

Conclusion: Actionable Lessons for Countries—and You

The episode lands on a call to action for individuals and nations alike: prosperity arises not from passive governance, but from unleashing human endeavor. The universal lessons include:

• Cut back government to its proper, limited role.
• Structure policies around the “five kingdoms”: low tax, spending restraint, minimal regulation, free trade, and sound money.
• Incentives matter: Build a culture, economy, and personal life that rewards work, initiative, and creativity.
• Courage and vision are essential for leaders and individuals alike.
• Study history; implement what works. Don’t be afraid to act—or to ask.

The final message: Prosperity and “going big” require the courage to pursue ambitious dreams, reward initiative, and put in place the freedoms and incentives for all to flourish.