Podcast Summary: Going Big! with Kevin Gentry

Episode: Going Big with Dr. Michael Crow: Redesigning the American University

Date: January 19, 2026
Host: Kevin Gentry
Guest: Dr. Michael Crow, President of Arizona State University

Overview

This episode features a deep, wide-ranging conversation with Dr. Michael Crow, president of Arizona State University (ASU), renowned for his transformative leadership that’s reshaped the landscape of higher education. Crow unpacks his bold vision for the American university, challenging the conventions of exclusivity, entrenched tradition, and bureaucracy. He discusses his personal journey, how he’s operationalized innovation at scale, and offers practical insights on leadership, culture change, and public value.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about education reform, organizational transformation, or big, societal impact.

Main Theme

Redesigning the American University for the 21st Century:
How ASU under Dr. Crow’s stewardship is pioneering a model of higher education rooted in egalitarian access, continuous innovation, and direct societal impact—challenging the status quo and demonstrating that going “big” can mean going better.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Role of Higher Education in America (02:33–04:48)

• Historical Context: Dr. Crow underscores that universities have always been central to American progress, from the founding fathers through the land-grant movement to postwar science and medical revolutions.
• Dual Mission for Modern Universities:
  1. Serve democracy and the success of the Republic.
  2. Enable the future—by producing new thinkers, inventors, artists, and leaders.
• Complexity and Diversity: U.S. higher education includes a vast array of institutions (public, private, for-profit, research, liberal arts, etc.), reflecting and serving a sprawling democracy.

2. Personal Journey & Motivations (05:21–09:15)

• Early Life Lessons: Growing up in a Navy family moving 21 times, Crow witnessed broad untapped talent and outmoded school systems, sparking a drive for educational empowerment.
• Formative Experience:
  • Collecting food for a family living in poverty while watching the Apollo 8 broadcast awakened a passion for using knowledge to close societal gaps.
  • “All I said to myself is like, something’s wrong here.” (07:27 — Dr. Michael Crow)
• Rejection of Selectivity as Excellence:
  • Experience and historical study led Crow to reject “success through selectivity,” arguing it replicates social hierarchy antithetical to American ideals.
  • Cites Richard Nelson’s The Moon and the Ghetto: If we can put people on the moon, why can’t we ensure opportunity for all?

3. Influences from Early Academic and Administrative Roles (12:55–15:25)

• Land Grant Lessons: At Iowa State and Kentucky, saw universities directly uplifting economies and communities.
• Elite Standards with Broad Commitment: At Columbia, learned to combine highest academic excellence with a mission to serve the general population.
• Design Experience: These roles shaped his conviction that universities can be both high-quality and egalitarian.

4. Vision & Foundational Changes at Arizona State (15:45–21:27)

• Arizona’s “Wild Territory”: The openness of Arizona enabled radical reinvention.
• Entrepreneurial Public Enterprise: Shifted ASU away from government dependency, modeling after Margaret Thatcher’s public enterprises.
• Three Charter Principles:
  1. Inclusion over exclusion: Judge success by who is included and their success, NOT exclusivity.
  2. Societal value of research: Measure research by its public impact, not prestige or citation.
  3. Assume responsibility for outcomes: If Arizona graduates unprepared teachers, doctors, or political leaders, the university is responsible for those social outcomes.
• Explosive Growth:
  • From 8,000 to 40,000 graduates annually.
  • From 6,000 to 33,000 engineering students.
  • 200,000 degree-seekers (80,000 on-campus, 120,000 online), plus hundreds of thousands more in non-degree learning.

Quote:

“We’ll measure the success of the university based on who we include versus who we exclude and how they succeed.” — Dr. Michael Crow (16:52)

5. Challenging Conventional Wisdom: Big Can Mean Excellent (22:34–26:07)

• Excellence Without Exclusivity: Proved ASU can both massively expand access and achieve top research status.
  • One of only five U.S. universities (without a medical school) to top $1B in research expenditures.
  • Private sector and community partnerships drive funding and innovation.
• Rejects the “big means bad” myth: Large-scale enables affordability, innovation, and exceptional educational outcomes.
• Integration with Industry and Society: ASU’s partnership with Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. facilitated the largest foreign direct investment in U.S. history.

Quote:

“Are you kidding me? I mean, we found whole new ways to teach... The hottest thing in the market right now is an English major who can code.” — Dr. Michael Crow (25:53)

6. Overcoming Entrenched Interests & Political Challenges (31:00–35:05)

• Resistance and Culture Shifts:
  • Faced pushback from faculty, political actors, and alumni.
  • Used open dialogue but stayed resolute: “If you don’t want those things, there’s plenty of other places where you can go and work.” (27:36)
  • Eliminated 85 underperforming departments; built 40 new interdisciplinary schools.
  • Accountability to public boards, not ministries, keeping the university’s mission aligned with democracy.
• Political Dynamics:
  • Navigates Arizona’s free-enterprise political spirit and broad ideological diversity.
  • Views himself as a “libertarian focused on guaranteeing liberties for my great-grandchildren.” (33:13)

7. Culture: Building for Innovation & Inclusion (35:05–38:17)

• Continuous Innovation as Culture:
  • Drucker quote: “Culture eats your breakfast, lunch, and dinner.” (35:37)
  • Charter and mission defined and reinforced daily: innovation, not tradition, is the default.
  • Faculty and students buy in or move on.
• Extraordinary Student Stories:
  • From Navy dependents and first-generation students to a young woman who escaped the Taliban and became a stellar graduate.
  • “The culture here became one in which innovation has greatly enhanced our ability to produce from any family background, any educational background.” (37:22)

8. “Going Big” Logistically and Culturally (38:22–40:58)

• Leveraging Size for Agility and Opportunity:
  • Technology and structure enable rapid adaptation, not bureaucracy.
  • Large-scale supports economies of scale for teaching, technology, and support.
  • Big teams help faculty build dynamic, tech-enhanced courses.
• “BIG has worked in our favor because we can buy the computers, training assets... BIG has worked to our advantage because of the way we’ve been able to do this.” (40:17)

9. Leadership Longevity & Maintaining Freshness (41:05–44:48)

• Average university presidency ~4 years; Crow at ASU since 2002.
• Staying Energized:
  • Driven by students’ aspirations and the nation’s mission.
  • Adaptive leadership and continuous learning are essential to avoid stagnation.
  • COVID innovations demonstrated the model’s resilience.
  • “If universities feel beleaguered... you got the wrong people leading them.” (44:17)

10. Reflections & Advice (44:48–47:08)

• Advice to Younger Self:
  • Work harder, but also prepare to be even more broadly educated and aware.
  • “Go big.” (45:42)
• Advice for Listeners:
  • Understand history and appreciate humanity’s momentous progress—“Today is the best day that there’s ever been.” (46:32)
  • Be grounded, purposeful, and recognize the cumulative benefit of generations that came before.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Breaking the Mold of Exclusivity:

  “If every college operates that way... we’re basically replicating the British system of social hierarchy. And I was relatively convinced by the time I was a teenager that I thought we overthrew that.” (09:58 – Dr. Michael Crow)

• On Accountability:

  “The second you say to a university that they’re responsible for something... it changes everything.” (19:40 – Dr. Michael Crow)

• On Innovation Culture:

  “A part of our culture here... is going to be continuous innovation. All the time. And it turns out that that is, in almost every case, unbelievably powerful.” (36:50 – Dr. Michael Crow)

• On Resilience & Opportunity:

  “If universities feel beleaguered or bogged down... you got the wrong people leading them… The mission is so important, the country’s success is so important, and the way we do things—with so much creative energy.” (44:17 – Dr. Michael Crow)

• On Perspective:

  “We are living at the most unbelievably positive moment in the history of our species. Today is the best day that there’s ever been.” (46:32 – Dr. Michael Crow)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | |----------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Role of Higher Ed in America | 02:33–04:48 | | Early Life & Motivations | 05:21–09:15 | | Critique of Selectivity & Prestige | 09:15–12:23 | | Lessons from Academic Posts Before ASU | 12:55–15:25 | | Arrival & Vision at ASU | 15:45–21:27 | | Measuring Outcomes & Driving Innovation | 22:34–26:07 | | Navigating Opposition, Changing Culture | 31:00–35:05 | | Building a Culture of Innovation | 35:05–38:17 | | Going Big: Scale, Agility, Structure | 38:22–40:58 | | Leadership Longevity, Staying Fresh | 41:05–44:48 | | Reflections & “Go Big” Advice | 44:48–47:08 |

Final Thoughts

This candid, rigorous conversation with Dr. Michael Crow illustrates what it truly means to “go big”—not just scaling up, but daring to erase old limits, build new models, and unapologetically deliver public value. Crow’s radical reimagining of higher education at ASU stands as a blueprint for empowering people and institutions to think beyond tradition, emphasize outcomes, and relentlessly pursue innovation for the good of society.

For anyone with a stake in leadership, education, or bold societal change, this episode offers both inspiration and a clear call to action.