Going Big with Gay Gaines: The Woman Behind the GOP Revolution and the Revival of Mount Vernon

Summary

Going Big! with Kevin Gentry

Episode: Going Big with Gay Gaines: The Woman Behind the GOP Revolution and the Revival of Mount Vernon
Date: January 5, 2026
Host: Kevin Gentry
Guest: Gay Heart Gaines

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Episode Overview

In this inspiring episode, Kevin Gentry sits down with Gay Heart Gaines—trailblazer, philanthropist, and influential leader in American civic life. Gaines shares her journey from a global childhood to the helm of pivotal organizations, including the National Review Institute, GOPAC (with Newt Gingrich), and the Mount Vernon Ladies’ Association, which she led through a transformative $100 million revival. The conversation spans mentorship, leadership, historic preservation, political strategy, and what it means to “go big” for a cause you believe in.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Gay Gaines’ Early Life and Global Perspective

• Background: Born in Toronto, she experienced a nomadic childhood, living in Australia and Paris due to her father’s career with Colgate-Palmolive.
  • “We went to Hawaii, to Fiji, to New Zealand, and landed six in the morning going under the bridge in Sydney harbor. And I was 10 years old.” (03:37–04:23)
• Influence: Exposure to diverse cultures gave her a broad worldview, later informing her leadership and patriotism.

Roots of Patriotism and the Power of Teachers

• Pivotal Moment: Gaines credits her American History teacher at Kent Place School, Ms. Sampson, for igniting her love of America and of George Washington:
  • “She would talk about the redcoats were in Manhattan and they were about to come on the island...just the way she painted the pictures. You were always pulling for George. That teacher changed my life.” (06:03–06:51)
• Mentorship: Both Gay and Kevin reflect on the outsized impact great teachers and mentors can have on a young person’s trajectory.
  • “Teachers have that opportunity, if they're great teachers, and take it. So it's a wonderful profession.” (07:18)

The Power of Role Models: Buckley, Thatcher, Gingrich, Limbaugh

• Attraction to Success: Gaines has always been fascinated by what makes exceptional people tick, citing her meeting with violinist Yehudi Menuhin as a ten-year-old.
• William F. Buckley and National Review Institute:
  • Organized a transformative gathering that led to the founding of the Institute, with Bill Buckley as chairman. (09:17–09:51)
  • Buckley’s brilliance, humor, and willingness to expand the reach beyond a small readership were key, as was Gay's initiative.
• Margaret Thatcher:
  • Developed a close friendship with the Iron Lady, learning the importance of self-confidence and deep conviction in politics.
    • “She never let the fact she was a woman stop her...” (12:41)
    • "She had such self confidence and she believed in what she believed. She wasn't just mouthing the words. That's key, Kevin." (13:07)
• Newt Gingrich and GOPAC:
  • Recruited by Gingrich to help train Republican candidates at every level, focusing on coherent messaging and strategic unity:
    • “The key is, I think that they're all talking off the same page. So Newt taught them what to say, basically.” (14:35)
    • Use of cassette tapes for standardized messaging led to national success. (14:47)
  • Gaines played a vital role as a “fundraiser extraordinaire,” connecting donors with the cause and generating much-needed resources.
• Rush Limbaugh:
  • Described as “a gentle giant”—shy in person, but a powerhouse communicator on air.
    • “Rush was a very shy man...when he got behind the Abbey Mike, he was fat. And when he left the studio...he was a different person, very shy.” (18:16–19:29)
    • His authenticity and honesty were core to his national influence.
    • “Wouldn't have happened without Rush.”—on Gingrich’s 1994 victory (19:57)

The Revival of Mount Vernon

• Leadership at Mount Vernon: As regent, Gaines spearheaded the transformation of Mount Vernon into a modern, dynamic educational hub.
  • Recognized the need for a proper George Washington Presidential Library and drove fundraising for a $100M+ expansion.
• On Fundraising:
  • Stressed the privilege and honor of inviting people to contribute, often engaging donors by showing the site in person.
    • “I think that people that give you a lot of money to do something noble deserve to have their name on it.” (25:24)
    • “There's only one Mount Vernon, and people give to all sorts of things, but there is only one George Washington's home, and it needs to be spectacular.” (26:09)

On American Values and the Future

• What Gay Wants for America’s Next Generations:
  • Strives for her descendants to see “the good” in America—its exceptional founding, generosity, and decency.
    • “Every time I come home to America, I see really decent people and good people, all walks of life...” (28:22)
    • “America's founding is important because it was founded differently than any other country...There’s no other country like America.” (28:55)
  • Celebrates the upcoming 250th anniversary as an opportunity for renewed patriotism and historical appreciation.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mentorship:

  • “Teachers have that opportunity, if they're great teachers, and take it. So it's a wonderful profession.” (07:18, Gay Heart Gaines)

• On Conviction in Leadership:

  • “She never let the fact she was a woman stop her from trying anything... she believed in what she believed. She wasn't just mouthing the words. That's key, Kevin. The politicians today, the ones that I admire and gravitate toward, you know, they have a deep conviction, they mean it.” (13:01, Gay Heart Gaines)

• On Fundraising Philosophy:

  • “The key is to ask wealthy people. There's no point in going to people that aren't if you need to really raise a lot of money...It's a privilege.” (16:11, 23:33, Gay Heart Gaines)
  • "Think about Mount Vernon. There's only one Mount Vernon, and people give to all sorts of things, but there is only one George Washington's home, and it needs to be spectacular. So they got it." (26:09)

• On Confidence and Action:

  • “When you believe something strongly, do it... When I wanted somebody to help me, I asked. And I don't think you should not ask.” (30:55, Gay Heart Gaines)

• The Famous 'Garbage Bag' Scene:

  • Gay recounts a night at GoPAC, trapped in an elevator filled with Christmas party trash at 11:30 pm, illustrating her relentless commitment.
    • “I have to climb over the garbage... I lost a beautiful shoe that I never found again because it came off from the garbage bag.” (34:41, Gay Heart Gaines)

• On Building Teams and Commitment:

  • “I remember walking into the room and looking around this big, long table, and there were 30 young kids with pizzazz... I kept eight people out of 30. And I told Newt, we just cut the payroll. And then I said, now we have to raise the money. Those kids were so fabulous. And I got to work every morning at 8, and I was always the last one to leave. And they got a message of somebody who was committed.” (00:01, 34:32, Gay Heart Gaines)

• On Going Big, and Fearlessness:

  • “Be fearless. Just tackle whatever it is, knowing you can make it better and just do it. Don't have excuses why you can't... You will fail sometimes, but that's okay.” (38:10, Gay Heart Gaines)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• [03:37–06:03] — Gay’s childhood around the world, and how it shaped her worldview
• [06:03–07:18] — The teacher who made her a patriot
• [09:17–10:25] — The start of National Review Institute, Buckley’s influence
• [11:21–13:33] — Margaret Thatcher’s friendship and leadership lessons
• [14:16–16:45] — GOPAC’s founding, Newt’s strategy, and building a winning team
• [18:16–19:57] — Rush Limbaugh, his shyness off-air, and his cultural impact
• [21:06–26:30] — Mount Vernon’s revival, fundraising philosophy, and visionary leadership
• [30:19–34:32] — Practical insights on courage, leadership, and building great teams (with the “garbage bag” anecdote)
• [36:42–38:10] — Final encouragements: “do it,” assembling the right team, the power of fearless action

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Key Takeaways & Lessons

• Mentors and role models matter—great leadership is forged in part by inspiration from exemplary individuals.
• Conviction, self-confidence, and persistence are crucial for “going big.”
• In fundraising, treat the ask as a privilege and invite others into partnership for something greater.
• Surround yourself with committed, “like-minded” people; prune teams for quality and passion, not just quantity.
• Be fearless, take risks, and understand that failures are part of the journey.

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Final Word

“Be fearless. Just tackle whatever it is, knowing you can make it better and just do it... You will fail sometimes, but that's okay.” — Gay Heart Gaines (38:10)

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For more episodes and resources, visit goingbigpodcast.com.

Transcript

[Gay Heart Gaines]

We had eight people working for us. When I arrived, there were 30. And I remember walking into the room and looking around this big, long table, and there were 30 young kids with pizzazz. I assumed inspiration. They all wanted to work at go back. And I said, you know, we can't afford you. And I said, I'm the new chairman. I want you to look to the left and right because you won't be here in one week. So I want each of you to come and tell me why you think you can help me make this organization successful and how hard you're willing to work. And at the end of the week, that many are going to be gone. And so I did. I interviewed every one of them. One left immediately because she knew she didn't want to work that hard. But everybody else came, And I kept eight people out of 30. And I told Newt, we just cut the payroll. And then I said, now we have to raise the money. Those kids were so fabulous. And I got to work every morning at 8, and I was always the last one to leave. And they got a message of somebody who was committed.

[Kevin Gentry]

Welcome to the Going Big Podcast. I'm your host, Kevin Gentry, and this is the place where we celebrate bold moves and big ideas. Each week, I sit down with inspiring leaders, entrepreneurs, and change makers who are making a significant impact in their careers.

And in their communities.

Whether you're looking to level up your leadership, pursue your passion, or just get inspired to take your next big leap, this is where those stories come to life. Now, if you're listening on iTunes, YouTube, or anywhere else you tune into podcasts, be sure to hit that subscribe button so you'll never miss an episode. Now let's dive in to what it means to truly go big.

Well, welcome back to another episode of the Going Big Podcast. I'm your host, Kevin Gentry, and. And today's guest is quite extraordinary, as you're about to see. Gay Heart Gaines, longtime professional life spans multiple decades in leadership in public affairs and American civic life. William F. Buckley chose her as the first chairman of the National Review Institute. She was the chairman and CEO of GoPack, where she partnered with Newt Gingrich to lead a conservative Republican revolution in the United States. And I think, perhaps most consequentially, she served as the regent for the Mount Vernon Ladies association, where she led an unprecedented $100 million plus expansion and revival of George Washington's cherished home. But as you're about to see, there's just so much and so many wonderful lessons to learn here today. And And I'm going to learn a lot, too. Gay. It's such a privilege and honor to be with you. Thank you for. And by the way, thank you for hosting us here at your home. This is a real treat.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Thank you, Kevin, for coming. I'm excited about it, and I love the work you're doing.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, I have long admired the work you do, because in my judgment, your leadership is really quite unprecedented in terms of the influence and effectiveness you've had in both public affairs in the United States and. And in philanthropy. But for people watching and listening today, they don't have the same benefit that I've had over the years. So let's just start off with who is Gay Gaines? For those who've never met you? Where were you born? Where'd you grow up? We're going to get into a lot of stories, but who is Gay Gaines? Tell us a little bit about who you are.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Well, I'm a lucky girl, number one. But I was born in Toronto, and I was an only child. And my father and mother really spent a lot of time with me, especially my mother, who was a great reader and taught me the classics. And she was a teacher, and she really worked with me as a young child. When I was 10, we went from Toronto all the way across Canada on the train Canadian Pacific, got on the Orangi, which was a ship headed to Australia. We went to Hawaii, to Fiji, to New Zealand, and landed six in the morning going under the bridge in Sydney harbor. And I was 10 years old, and my father had been made managing director of Colgate Palmolive. For Australia. Oh, sure.

[Kevin Gentry]

Oh, okay.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

So we were there for three fabulous years. I mean, it was really an extraordinary experience for a little girl. And it's interesting, just recently, Bondi beach has been on the news. I went to Bondi beach every Sunday, and all my classmates did, and we all learned to surf. It was a big part of our lives. Great experience there. And then my father was made managing director of 12 countries in Europe. So we flew back to the United States for a short vacation and then off from Idaho to Paris, where we lived in a beautiful house next door to the American Cathedral at Vassach Avenue. George sank, and we were there for three years, and it was remarkable.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, in my judgment, your living all around the world, from Bombay to Paris, all these different places, but I don't remember Bombay.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

I was a baby there. I left when I was 2.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, but it gives you a global perspective that you bring to your work. I think that is an element of Your impact, which we'll get into. But I know you went to college in the United States. Sweet Briar College. You met your husband, Stanley, who was at the University of Virginia.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

That's right.

[Kevin Gentry]

But as I know you, in many ways, if somebody said, what's the one word that defines gay heart gains, I would say you're a patriot. You really love this country. You were born in Toronto, Canada, but you love it and you show it in so many ways. And again, we're going to get into a lot of these stories, but what is it about America that you love so much, that you've dedicated so much of your life to?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

You know, Kevin, I went to Kent Place school in Summit, New Jersey, and I had an American history teacher, Ms. Sampson. She was skinny, and she would jump up onto the desk and cross her long legs and lean into the class and talk about George Washington. That teacher changed my life. I sort of fell in love with the guy. I just thought everything she. I'd get so excited. She would talk about the redcoats were in Manhattan and they were about to come on the island, and he was stuck there and couldn't get off. And just the way she Pa painted the pictures. And you were always pulling for George. And then they snuck off in the night, got off when all the Red Coats came, Washington's army was gone. And I loved it. So I give her the full credit. I just became a real patriot. And then I ended up spending a lot of time studying American history.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, you know, I'm glad you shared that, because I want to get into the power and importance of mentors and mentorship, which I know you've been a very important mentor to many another element of your strength and success. But I hear so often that it sometimes was a teacher or someone who either intervened in a young person's life or just was such of a dramatic influence that it really made such a big difference. Well, all right, let's dig into this.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Teachers have that opportunity, if they're great teachers, and take it. So it's a wonderful profession.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, and I know you've done a lot about historic preservation and about American history, so I want to get into that. Okay, so heroes. You mentioned George Washington, and we're going to talk a lot about your heroes. What is it about people who have grabbed your attention? What are their attributes or elements of their character? Anything that. Whether it's George Washington. I want to get into what you saw in Newt Gingrich, what you saw in William F. Buckley, what you saw in Rush Limbaugh. What is it? How do you see these things in people that others might see, but you see more deeply?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Well, I'm old, but I didn't know. George. True.

[Kevin Gentry]

Okay.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

You know, I'm attracted and always have been. From the time I was very young, I'm attracted to people who are successful. When I was on the ship going to Hawaii and I was 10, I fell in love with Yehudi Menu. And he happened to be on the boat. He played the violin every night. And I just. And I was seasick the first day, and he invited me to come sleep. He was in the big royal suite, and he invited me to come sleep in his bed and try to get over my seasickness. Yehudi Mandarin. So I've always been attracted to successful people. I like to know what makes them tick and why are they so successful.

[Kevin Gentry]

See, this is why I knew you would be perfect. I knew you are perfect. For the Going Big podcast. This is all about the theme of how it attracts people to. What are these attributes? And how can people be motivated to lead life in a big, big way?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

All right, well, Bill Buckley was one of my big heroes.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, let's start with Bill Buckley. All right, who was Bill Buckley? Because for people listening, they may have seen Crossfire or some recordings of Crossfire, but he was an extraordinary figure, not only through his personal means of communication, but his leadership. Who was Bill Buckley?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

He was a brilliant man. Absolutely. And a brilliant communicator. He was a great writer, and he had a wicked sense of humor. He has a lot of fun. It was Bill Buckley on a National Review Institute trip, which I organized because we had the National Review. And I said, let's have an institute. It was a rainy morning in our house in Palm Beach. Nobody could play golf or tennis. And I said, we need to get the word and the message of National Review out to a bigger audience, so let's start an institute. And he said he'd be the chairman in the beginning, anyway.

[Kevin Gentry]

So now we hosted that here in Palm Beach. In Palm Beach. The gathering. The initial gathering of National Review Institute.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Yes. And that wasn't planned for that. It was planned to have a gathering of people I loved at National Review, just to have a weekend of golf and tennis. And it just poured all weekend long. So we went into the sun Room and I said, let's see how. What else National Review can do? Because not many people are reading it, Bill. And he didn't like that. But it was the truth. There was a loyal group of people that read National Review. But it wasn't a wide audience.

[Kevin Gentry]

It's not a wide.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

I said, we do an institute and we invite people to speak and come, and we should do it in Europe and we should do it in America. And I said, the thing to do is to get Margaret Thatcher to chair it in Europe and to get somebody like Rush Limbaugh to chair it in America. And we did that.

[Kevin Gentry]

And they both. I never knew this aspect of the history.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

And Margaret Thatcher, I'll never forget, she was always the first man down. You know, we would have breakfast.

[Kevin Gentry]

Explain that for the benefit of people listening, because that's not immediately intuitive. Keep going.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

I used to stay up late with her because I wanted to hang on every word she said. And finally she'd look around and all the men had left to go to bed because it was after midnight. And she said, gay, I think we're the last men standing. She had a great sense of humor.

[Kevin Gentry]

People didn't realize that y' all were very close friends.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Very, very close friends. In fact, tell us about that.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, how did that happen?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

It happened on these trips as we got to know each other. On every trip, I always tried to be the first person down so I could sit with her at breakfast and the last person at night with her so I could walk her up to her. And then she'd ask me for a brandy in her suite. And it was. I did it on purpose. I wanted to know this extraordinary woman. I admired her so much. I loved her. And she knew that. And she said to me once, I never had many women friends because I was always in politics and they were just mostly men when I started.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right. There's those famous pictures, by the way, those photographs from her cabinet or whatever you would call the whole government. She would be the only woman in it at that time. She was such a trailblazer.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

She was so young. She was 23 when she first started. And she did have dentists who supported her mammothly. But she was always with men. So I think two things. I think she trusted me, and she could, because I never discussed anything about what we talked about with anybody, ever. And she also liked me just because I loved her. When somebody loves you dearly, you do learn to like them. And she ended up loving me. But what a fabulous what if charge will.

[Kevin Gentry]

What can you share about her character, leadership attributes that might be valuable insights for anyone listening to say.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Well, particularly for women. She never let the fact that she was a woman stop her from trying anything. I also think she was very smart and she Had a lot of self confidence. So I think a woman striding into a room filled with very influential, smart men, a lot of men didn't like her because of that.

[Kevin Gentry]

You're talking about conservatives in Britain in the 70s and 80s. I mean, that's extraordinary.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

It is. But she had such self confidence and she believed in what she believed. She wasn't just mouthing the words. That's key, Kevin. The politicians today, the ones that I admire and gravitate toward, you know, they have a deep conviction, they mean it. There's a lot that don't. And you can see through that. You can see through that.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, I know that you're a big fan of ron and Casey DeSantis. We'll get into that as well. You see something there. But let's talk a little bit about Newt Gingrich because, you know, I interviewed Newt. In fact, I think with your help, I interviewed him a few episodes ago, and what he did in terms of the vision he had from first being elected in the 1970s to say we're not going to accept the status quo anymore. The Republicans accepted being in the minority always. We're going to do something much bigger and better. And he had that vision and a strategy and a plan. You were key. You were a partner with him. I mean, Gopack was extraordinarily. It was invaluable, indispensable.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Well, he thought of it. He came up with the idea of GoPack and he said to me, if you will come to Washington and run, go pack. We're going to teach and train candidates to run for office. Not just big office, but at every level.

[Kevin Gentry]

Yes.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

And he said, gay. The key is, I think that they're all talking off the same page. So Newt taught them what to say, basically.

[Kevin Gentry]

Oh, he had those cassette tapes. Yes, yes.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

He had cassette tapes that the congressman to be would put in his car. And all the way to his next speech, he was listening so that they were saying the same thing in Colorado or New Jersey or Michigan, wherever, Texas. And they did that year. It worked. Everybody was united and that's how Newt got to be speaker.

[Kevin Gentry]

All right, so two questions about that. First, what did you see in Newt that attracted you to take that role? I mean, you're offered many different roles and ways to get engaged in different efforts. Why did you choose?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Well, I run the National Review Institute, and that was a big success. And I always loved Newt. I didn't know him. I didn't know him well at all, really. But I liked what I saw and I just Asked Stanley, do you think, okay with you if I go to Washington for a few years? Because we might change the whole country. And I think Newt's the guy that can do it. I thought he was a brilliant guy, and he is. And he makes mistakes like we all do. I do, too. But he had the energy and the passion, and I just wanted to get his message out.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, what was your role at GoPack? Because I know you have your sort of famous black book. You are a fundraiser extraordinaire. Were you making connections? Were you helping him build? Was it outreach? What were you doing that helped bring that form such an effective partnership?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

You can't win in politics. You can't win an election without money. And I am a good fundraiser.

[Kevin Gentry]

You're more than a good fundraiser.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

The key is to ask wealthy people. There's no point in going to people that aren't if you need to really raise a lot of money. But at Go Pack, we had the most important thing was the message, Newt's message. And we were the ones getting it out to all the people running for office. And then I would get it out to my friends whom I knew who had the money to support GoPack, and they gave millions.

[Kevin Gentry]

Did you think Yul would win in 1988?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

I always thought we would.

[Kevin Gentry]

Did you? I mean, because I remember Haley Barber being at a meeting of the Republican National Committee in July and him saying, you know, I really think we might win.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

That's how he thought we might win.

[Kevin Gentry]

Exactly.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

And I said, haley, we are going to win.

[Kevin Gentry]

When did you think you were going to win and why?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

When I could get Newt to get on a. I would get people to loan us their planes. And I flew Newt to Kentucky and we landed in an airport. He was in a hangar one time. Thousands of people in Kentucky came to hear Newtown. And the next place we went was up to Detroit, same thing. And I said, newt, you're going to win this. You're going to win this. Because when people listen to what you can do, what a good leader can do for the country, they believe in you, and you're going to have an opportunity to prove it. That's when I knew and I worked. I was always the first person there at 8 o' clock in the morning, and I was the last to leave.

[Kevin Gentry]

All right, we're going to try to summarize these keys to Gay Gain success at the end of this as we close out. But let's talk about. You had this extraordinary relationship, this friendship, this partnership with Bill Buckley, with Newt Gingrich. With Baroness Lady Margaret Thatcher, the former Prime Minister of Great Britain during the most important period of the 20th century. I would argue I was very lucky. Tell us about Rush Limbaugh.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Oh, first of all, I adored him. And that's okay for me to say that, because I really did. Rush was a very shy man. And one time when I talked to.

[Kevin Gentry]

Him, it's very different than the image.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

That you have when he was on eib. He was bombastic and he was king of the world the minute he left his studio. He would come over almost every day after the show and sit down and have a cigar with Stami on our.

[Kevin Gentry]

Loggia outside here in Palm Beach.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Here in Palm Beach. Because our house was two away from his. We were too south of it. He would stop and have a cigar with Stanley, and they would talk and talk. But he. He told me gay. I grew up and I was fat. I never had a girlfriend. Nobody ever liked me much. But he started a radio show when he was a kid, and his parents didn't want him to do that. His father certainly didn't want him to do. They wanted him to be a lawyer.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right. He had that whole family of lawyers.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Going to law school. Dad, I want to be on radio. Anyway, he ended up being a phenomenal, phenomenal communicator, but he didn't. When he got behind the Abbey Mike, he was fat. And when he left the studio and drove over to our house, he was a different person, very shy.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, what made him special in your eyes?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Oh, his honesty, his conviction of what's the right thing to do always. I mean, he really gave good advice to people, and he never elaborated. It was just all from the heart. That's why his show was so successful. People really got it. I adored that man.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, he was so key also to what happened in 1994. He's such an extraordinarily effective communicator.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Wouldn't have happened without Rush.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, you have an eye for communicators, obviously, because from Buckley to Thatcher to Rush to Newtown.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Wasn't I lucky?

[Kevin Gentry]

Oh, well, it's more than luck. We'll get into that. More. By the way, I interviewed Eric Woods Erickson. Eric Erickson is a phenomenally successful radio talk show host based in Atlanta. A great guy. And he told me when I interviewed him about how Rush was so kind to him about just offering him advice, being open, just reaching out to him. And I don't think people know that about Rush or know that about people like that who end up doing those kinds of Things.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Rush was a gentle giant. He really was. And when he wasn't behind the mic, he was shy. Rush would never walk into a room like Margaret Thatcher and sort of take charge. He would walk into a room and wait for people to come to him. He never, ever was bombastic. He was very shy. And he also wasn't very good with women, and he didn't have great wives. And he knew it. He knew because they weren't good to him.

[Kevin Gentry]

All right. Wow. All right. Another aspect of your life is Mount Vernon. And again, I think that obviously, what you did for the country, what you did, in many ways, incredibly consequential. But Mount Vernon is a special place because George Washington is exceptional. I mean, it's amazing that he was first in war, first in peace, first in the hearts of his countrymen. The first guy was. Was so good, so extraordinary. The Mount Vernon Ladies association owns Mount Vernon. It's the only privately held presidential home in the United States. You were the first regent, the main leader of it, at a time when you had a vision. You all had a vision to do something special. It kind of. In my judgment, it kind of gotten flat. It was a home.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Kevin. I wasn't the first regent. I was the first regent to raise a lot of money.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right. I meant. I thought.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

I mean, there were many regions.

[Kevin Gentry]

No, no, no, you're right. You're right, you're right. The title is regent. I'm sorry, I thought it was first regent.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

I was invited to Vice Regent.

[Kevin Gentry]

Yes. Okay.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

And then it was the board that elected me to the regent.

[Kevin Gentry]

But still, you saw something. Because in my judgment, Mount Vernon was kind of stale and flat. Yeah.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Seedy.

[Kevin Gentry]

And it was just a home, which is spectacular. But school kids, you know, like, what's the attraction and what it is that today. And I had Doug Bradburn on earlier this year to talk about that. The educational center, the interactive and immersive experiences. You and you all had a vision to do something quite dramatic. Walk us through a little bit about that, because that among your many efforts in leadership and philanthropy, to me, is not only one of the most consequential, but it's one that people should study.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Thank you. I agree. I want everybody to go to Mount Vernon.

[Kevin Gentry]

They should.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

I want every mother and father to take their place.

[Kevin Gentry]

Christmas time. In the summer, in the spring, in the fall. It's a spectacular place. And that's.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

I was very lucky. I was. I was elected to the board, and they have one vice regent from a state.

[Kevin Gentry]

Got it.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

So I don't know Right now, I think there's about 23, but they've never been all the states at the same time.

[Kevin Gentry]

So you were the vice regent from Florida?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

I was Florida. I was elected from Florida. And I remember because I am a fundraiser, talking to the other women, they don't like to ask for money, and they certainly didn't want to ask their friends and they didn't want to ask their relatives. I said, well, then, who do you ask? You go to total strangers. They're not going to give to you. And so we had a little bit of a. And I couldn't get them to understand that it was a privilege.

[Kevin Gentry]

Exactly. It's a privilege. Elaborate on that, please. I think that is a fundamental point about fundraising, but most people see it as like, hitting somebody up, twisting their arm as if it's a confrontation. They don't want to do it. You're inviting somebody into a partnership to achieve something big.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

I talked to Dick Scaith when he was living in Palm Beach.

[Kevin Gentry]

Dick Scaife from Pittsburgh. Richard Scaife from Pittsburgh.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

And I invited him to come with me to Mount Vernon. And when he saw really what it was, that's why he gave us a big donation. And then from that time on, when I would invite people to come, they got it. And I said to the board, we need an education center, but what we really need is a library. And every other president has a library. And they said, no, but we have to raise so much money. And I said, of course we will, but we've got. George Washington deserves a library. So the board finally agreed. It took a bit of persuading.

[Kevin Gentry]

Wow, that's a spectacular library. You enlisted people like Rich DeVos. Another friend of yours, Rich DeVos, extraordinary person.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

He was the first person to give me $20 million for the library.

[Kevin Gentry]

Wow.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Rich DeVos. And Helen and I just said, this president deserves it more than any president. And they were so happy. They did once we did it, but it was. It's hard raising money. You have to ask.

[Kevin Gentry]

It is.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

And you have to persuade people that it's.

[Kevin Gentry]

You're doing important things.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Valid and important. Yeah.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, let me ask you another follow up related to that, because I think this is a tricky thing for people who are engaged in great causes. But see, fundraising is almost a necessary evil rather than as a wonderful opportunity to do something good. How important is it to engage prospective donors in the efforts? Because you brought Dick Scaife there. How important is that in your judgment?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

That helps? Because if they can see a site and this is where you want to do a building, and this is why you want to do it. And then they teach them about the true importance of this great, great president. They get it, they understand it, and they can sort of visualize their name on something that's very important. And I'm all for that. I think that people that give you a lot of money to do something noble deserve to have their name on it. And rarely does somebody say they don't want their name on it. They do.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

And that's good.

[Kevin Gentry]

You know, it's funny. I have found. It's amazing to me that many times people's philanthropic gifts can sometimes become among the most important things they do in their life.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Absolutely.

[Kevin Gentry]

And I don't think that's appreciated either.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

I agree with you. I've actually said that to certain donors. I said, I know you became president of this company or you started that. Wonderful. This. But think about Mount Vernon. There's only one Mount Vernon, and people give to all sorts of things, but there is only one George Washington's home, and it needs to be spectacular. So they got it.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, last night, I was with our mutual friends, Tom and Diane Smith.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

They're wonderful.

[Kevin Gentry]

They love you, they adore you. And they were telling me different things, and I didn't know about what you've done with four Arts here in Palm beach, about bringing history teachers and professors and tell us a little bit about that, if you don't mind.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Well, I went to the president of the 4 Arts and the chairman and asked, this is several years ago, and asked if we could do a speaker series on the Founding Fathers, and they liked the idea. So I invited great historians to come and speak. And it was completely sold out. Every single.

[Kevin Gentry]

That's what I've heard. It's a waiting list now.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

It was wonderful.

[Kevin Gentry]

Wow. Wow, wow, wow. All right.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

So I think Americans love their American history and even people that aren't steeped in it, a lot of women, older women here in Palm beach are going to these lectures and loving it. They are loving it.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, how appropriate. The first episode for 2026 of the Going Big podcast is with Gay Heart Gaines. And this is the year we celebrate the 250th birthday of the United States. The Declaration of Independence. Is that a big opportunity, too?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Yes, that's a huge opportunity. I mean, it's an opportunity for you, too.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, let me ask you. I want to bring some of these things to a close in terms of some ins and some particular ideas that you might share. But when you think about celebrating the 250th birthday, or maybe the 300th birthday down the road.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

I won't be here then. I want to celebrate the 250th.

[Kevin Gentry]

You've amazed us with your continued leadership and energy for a long time. Energy. Another key element of your amazing, amazing time is for your children, your grandchildren, your great grandchildren. What do you want them to see in America 50 years from now?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

That's a great question. I want them to see the good. I've lived all over the world, as you know, and traveled all over the world. And every time I come home to America, I see really decent people and good people, all walks of life, all stratospheres of society. And they're really wonderful, wonderful people. And I've talked to them. And, I mean, sometimes I've fallen in love with the milkman because he's such a great guy. And, you know, we don't have that anymore. They don't deliver the milk like that. But I loved it. And I just think America's founding is important because it was founded differently than any other country. We didn't just come up through years of whatever it was organized a founding of a country. And it's very. It's spectacular. There's no other country like America.

[Kevin Gentry]

You're absolutely right. And the fact that this small place, at the time, these extraordinary leaders stood forward, from Patrick Henry to Thomas Jefferson to George Washington to James Madison and John Adams, we could go on and on. It's incredible.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

It was a burst of brilliance. It's like a firecracker going off. And the people that were living here who became Americans, they got it. And it's hard to even imagine when you think about it. That wasn't always there, but it wasn't.

[Kevin Gentry]

Yeah. And the fact that George Washington turned down the demands that he continue to be their new king, and he had the presence of mind and the humility to say no. Unbelievable.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Just, there were no kings.

[Kevin Gentry]

No kings. Wow. All right, so, okay, I want to begin to bring this to a close for people listening. I think they're thinking, wow, this is really extraordinary. I mean, this person has done all these amazing things. I could never do anything like this.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Oh, yes, they can. This person was very lucky. Lots of luck involved just in who you meet in life, but also lucky that evidently my brain was never afraid to ask.

[Kevin Gentry]

That's my first question. How did you have the courage to ask? How did you first have that first conversation with Bill Buckley, who would be very intimidating or, I mean, good for you for having the vision to say, we need Rush Limbaugh and Margaret Thatcher to lead this, but to be the first one down and the last one to leave any hints, advice, tips, suggestions.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

I just think when you believe something strongly, do it. I wasn't intimidated. I should have been, perhaps, but I was very polite. But I just. When I wanted somebody to help me, I asked. And I don't think you should not ask. I would tell any fundraiser or anybody who's a real patriot, when you want to go to somebody, ask that person. Don't be afraid. You have every right. That person could turn you down, but chances are he or she won't.

[Kevin Gentry]

Alright. Another thing that pops up a lot in these conversations is about the importance of mentors. You mentioned that teacher that inspired you about George Washington. Were there particular mentors in your life or influences, or was it just you just lived this life?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Well, that one teacher was amazing. But after that, no. I would say my mother, who was a schoolteacher herself. My mother was a great influencer and sort of keeping me on the right track and never get a swollen head and just work. Daddy was a workaholic and he said, you can do anything you want if you're willing to work hard enough. Most people aren't. They say they want this, this and this, but they aren't willing to put in more than eight hours a day. You might end up putting in 12 or 14 if you want to get a job done. And my father worked really hard and so that I thought was appropriate.

[Kevin Gentry]

Now, you've been a very big influence to a lot of other people. I've talked to many people who have been influenced by you.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Thank you.

[Kevin Gentry]

Do you have any tips about how you can think about influencing others, or do you just live the kind of life that you've lived?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

I've never. I'm not trying to influence people, Kevin, but if your life does, that's great. But I want to just tell you one thing. When I worked at GoPack, we had eight people working for us. When I arrived, there were 30. And I remember walking into the room and looking around this big, long table and there were 30 young kids with pizzazz. I assumed inspiration. They all wanted to work at Go Back. And I said, you know, we can't afford you. And I said, I'm the new chairman. I want you to look to the left and right because you won't be here in one week. So I want each of you to come and tell me why you think you can help me make this organization successful and how hard you're Willing to work. And at the end of the week that many are going to be gone. And so I did. I interviewed every one of them. One left immediately because she knew she didn't want to work that hard. But everybody else came And I kept eight people out of 30. And I told Newt we just cut the payroll. And then I said, now we have to raise the money. Those kids were so fabulous. And I got to work every morning at 8 and I was always the last one to leave. And they got a message of somebody who was committed. And one time Stanley called me. He was picking me up the next day. We were going off for Christmas vacation. He said, where are you? I said, I'm still at GoPack. And he said, Gay, it's 11:30. I said, I know, I'm not finished. And he was a little bit. And when I got to the elevator, the elevator door opened and every organization in the building had had a Christmas party and their great big garbage bags were in the elevator. And I couldn't get it. And so I pressed it in, the door would open. And so I just decided, okay, I have to climb over the garbage race because the door on the other side was what was going to let me off in the garage. So finally I pressed against it and then I turned around and I had to get over the garbage bags in order to press the down button to the garage. And I lost a beautiful shoe that I never found again because it came off from the garbage bag.

[Kevin Gentry]

Oh, my gosh.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

But I thought that would be a great scene in a movie someday because nobody would believe. Took me an hour to get out of the elevator to get across the garbage bags and get the door open on the other side and get out.

[Kevin Gentry]

But that's what it takes.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

And Sandy, when I got home, said, where have you been? I said, in an elevator of garbage bags. You won't believe it, but it was the truth.

[Kevin Gentry]

Wow. Well, you know, you just. You mentioned that you were looking for people that were contribution motivated.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Yes.

[Kevin Gentry]

And this comes out a lot in these going big conversations too. Finding your gift, finding your contribution and then how you can do that.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Yes.

[Kevin Gentry]

Any comments on that?

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Well, I think that everybody has great potential and I also think when they see somebody who's willing to work a little longer and who really loves the mission. I loved Newt Gig Rich and his mission and I thought he was the smartest tiger in the jungle. And so I got the kids, they were all much younger than I to love him. And then they didn't mind staying a little late or if we were working on a project that was going to help Newt Gingrich, they would stay with me. And they were wonderful. The eight that I kept worked just as hard as I did. They were fabulous. They were really committed. And Go Pack helped Newt tremendously.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, there are a lot of great ideas and insights that we're getting from this conversation today as we close it up for anyone listening around the world. And I know we have an audience around the world at any moment. They're listening to this. Yes. Yes. This has been the number one podcast on iTunes in the nonprofit category for most of the last year. We have a vast audience, and this message will get out far and wide. Somebody, somebodies are listening, and they're looking for some kind of little cue, some kind of little encouragement just to get them out of their comfort zone, I think maybe to move them out of some complacency to go do and do something and go big.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Well, you've just said it. You've said it. They're looking for something. They just got to do it. Not wait. You know, if you want to make a casserole, go try it. Whatever you were trying to do, do it. Don't see other people doing it and wish you could. You can do it. You just have to work that hard and study and do it. And you also have to ask for advice. I used to ask Margaret Thatcher because I loved Margaret Thatcher, and Bill Buckley introduced me to her. And she arrived one time in Palm beach when I knew her very well. I didn't know she was coming. It was a Monday. And she said, gabe, dear, I'm here. I said, where? She said, here in Palm Beach. And I said, oh, my goodness. Would you like to come for dinner? And I would invite a couple of friends. She said, are they of like mind? And she meant it. And you have to work with people of like mind very often because then you're really committed to your goal. If everybody believes this is going to change America or this is going to make this building happen or whatever it is, are they of like mind? And she meant it.

[Kevin Gentry]

All right. If there was one word of encouragement that you would offer, just one big, tough prompt to encourage people to do the kind of things if people just did, 5% of what you've done in your life, the world would be a much better place. But what word of encouragement would you offer to close us out? Gay.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Be fearless. Be fearless. Just tackle whatever it is, knowing you can make it better and just do it. Don't have excuses why you can't so many people won't even take the first challenge because they think, oh, I'm not going to. I might fail. Be fearful. You will fail sometimes, but that's okay.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, this is a great, as I said at the outset, a privilege and an honor to be with you.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

It's a privilege for me. Thank you.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, I'm so glad that people are able to hear this conversation, and I hope they'll be inspired and encouraged to live the kind of life that you have. Keep at it. Let's do this again in five or ten years.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

Okay?

[Kevin Gentry]

All right. Thank you.

[Gay Heart Gaines]

You're on. Five might be safer.

[Kevin Gentry]

Thanks for tuning in to the Going Big Podcast. I hope today's conversation left you feeling energized and ready to tackle your biggest goals. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on iTunes, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps spread the word and it gets these inspiring stories out to more people. You can also find more content, resources and updates at our website, goingbigpodcast.com Remember.

The only limits are the ones you.

Don'T challenge, the limits that you impose on yourself. Keep pushing, keep growing, and above all, keep going big. See you next time on the Going Big Podcast.