Going Big with Rev. Dan Marotta: Small Faithfulness and Big Impact

Summary

Podcast Summary — Going Big! with Kevin Gentry

Episode: Going Big with Rev. Dan Marotta: Small Faithfulness and Big Impact
Date: December 8, 2025
Host: Kevin Gentry
Guest: Reverend Dan Marotta (Redeemer Anglican Church, Richmond, VA)

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Overview

This episode of Going Big! features an in-depth conversation between host Kevin Gentry and Reverend Dan Marotta, an Anglican priest and church planter in Richmond, Virginia. The discussion explores the paradox of "going big"—how world-changing impact often emerges from acts of “small faithfulness.” Dan shares his journey into ministry, insights on calling, the challenges and joys of starting new churches, the invaluable role of mentors, and the importance of humility and presence in both spiritual life and leadership.

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Key Discussion Points & Structure

1. Rethinking “Going Big”: Small Faithfulness, Big Results

• [00:01]–[01:05]
  Dan opens by reflecting on how many renowned figures—like biblical heroes or Mother Teresa—didn't set out to “go big.” They simply tried to be faithful in small ways.

  “So many people that have ended up changing the world, they weren't necessarily trying to go big, right?...God loves to use little people to do big things.”
  — Rev. Dan Marotta [00:06–01:05]

• Cites J.R.R. Tolkien’s hobbits as examples of “small people who end up doing big things.”

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2. Advent, Christmas, and the Person of Jesus

• [03:11]–[06:05]
  Kevin invites Dan to explain the significance of Advent, Christmas, and Jesus for listeners from any background.

  “We believe...Jesus is the God, the Son incarnate in a human being....Christmas, we remember and celebrate the incarnation....Advent [is] a season where we anticipate...the arrival of Christ in two ways—the first coming [and] the promised return.”
  — Rev. Dan Marotta [04:22–06:05]

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3. Dan’s Journey: Loss, Calling, and “Going All In”

• [07:12]–[14:17]

  • Dan shares his upbringing in Charlottesville, his college years at William & Mary, and how the deaths of close friends during college pushed him into existential and spiritual questioning.

  • Initially aspired to marine biology, not ministry.

    “I grew up reading, you know, like Jacques Cousteau, and I thought, well, I want to go live on a boat ... and discover new species of stingray....Not on my radar at all.”
    — Rev. Dan Marotta [09:39–09:41]

  • Volunteering with Young Life and a pivotal job offer from his home church eventually led him into ministry, despite initial reluctance.

• Gradual Calling:

  “It was gradual, but as with all things...it happened slowly and all at once.”
  — Rev. Dan Marotta [22:07]

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4. Understanding Calling (for Everyone)

• [15:03]–[21:13]

  • Explores biblical stories of calling (e.g., Moses, Jonah)—highlights that most people aren’t “called” with fireworks.
  • Encourages faithfulness to “ordinary” callings already in scripture: honoring parents, serving others, loving neighbors.

  “What business do we have asking God for a special calling if we're ignoring all of the callings that are already there?”
  — Rev. Dan Marotta [18:21]

• Kevin and Dan discuss the anxiety around “missing” one’s calling and the value of prayerful attentiveness to what’s in front of you.

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5. The Challenges of Modern Ministry

• [23:37]–[29:26]
  • The work of a pastor: shepherding, counseling, administration, and now also navigating declining social respect and trust (especially among younger generations).

    "Every movie that depicts a pastor or a priest, they're either the villain or they're an idiot."
    — Rev. Dan Marotta [25:21]

  • Dan notes, despite modern challenges, church leadership has often been harder in history (e.g., early church persecution).
  • Discusses scandals in ministry, the difference between saints and celebrities, and how falls affect the church’s witness.

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6. The Power and Practice of Mentorship

• [29:26]–[39:16]

  • Dan recounts story after story of older mentors who pursued him, invested time, and embodied different virtues (relational initiative, generosity, calm under pressure).
  • Lists mentors: J.R. Briggs, Carver Bolton, Pete Bauer, Brian Brown, John Yates.

    “One of the ways in which I feel most—I would say—rich in my own story is in how kind some older people have been to me along the way.”
    — Rev. Dan Marotta [29:36]

• Advice to Mentees:

  • Take initiative—ask for a “first date” (a single coffee/lunch to ask questions), not a lifelong “mentoring commitment.”

    “May I please have an hour of your time to buy you lunch and ask you questions? ... I just feel honored.”
    — Rev. Dan Marotta [36:33]

  • Show teachability and eagerness.

• Advice to Mentors:

  • Look for teachable, hungry individuals.
  • Often mentorship works best “elbow to elbow”—doing things together rather than face-to-face discussion.

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7. Church Planting: Vision, Strategy, and Mission

• [40:21]–[51:43]

  • The “why” and “how” of founding Redeemer Anglican Church in Richmond:

    • Personal relationships drew them to Richmond.
    • Saw rapidly growing city with declining church presence—a clear need.

    “Metro Richmond ... is growing rapidly, and population growth has far outpaced church growth....We had a relational invitation and ... a real need, a missional need.”
    — Rev. Dan Marotta [45:10]

  • Practical start: "Did about the only thing I know how to do to gather people, which is to throw a barbecue in our backyard.”
    — Rev. Dan Marotta [48:21]

  • Growth and multiplication: Three church plants launched (and a “fourth on the way”) from Redeemer.

    “We've got a fourth church planter who just started with us two months ago.”
    — Rev. Dan Marotta [51:19]

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8. Ambition, Humility, and Healthy Leadership

• [52:02]–[57:18]

  • Kevin asks: How do you balance “ambition” to reach more people with the hazards of ego and “celebrity” leadership?

  • Dan advocates for “sanctified ambition”—big passion for growth, but “with an ever-shrinking ego.”

    “How can you really have a strong drive and passion for something to grow and to flourish and to do well, but also have an ever-shrinking ego?...Self forgetfulness.”
    — Rev. Dan Marotta [54:23]

  • Importance of accountability (a bishop’s authority), empowering others, and reframing increased “growth” as increased service and opportunity to “suffer for” and serve more people.

  • Personal boundaries: Minimal social media, avoids metrics that foster pride.

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9. Advice for the Next Generation, and Those Still Seeking

• [58:05]–[59:29]
  • To his younger self (and young listeners): “Stop worrying. It’s going to work out. Receive the days as they come.”
  • Rejects the myth that impact comes from being big or important from the start.

    “So many people that have ended up changing the world, they weren't necessarily trying to go big....I think there's something about that in the character of God—that God loves to use little people to do big things.”
    — Rev. Dan Marotta [60:11–61:06]

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10. Parting Encouragement: Where to Start

• [61:44]–[62:29]
  • Dan concludes with advice for those seeking meaning, purpose, or a “go big” moment:

    “Prayerfully pay attention to what’s in front of you....Be faithful in the moment with whatever you’ve been given....If you skip the little in favor of just doing big things, you probably won’t even be ready for the big things.”
    — Rev. Dan Marotta [61:47]

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Impact:
  "God loves to use little people to do big things." — Rev. Dan Marotta [01:05]
• On Calling:
  "What business do we have asking God for a special calling if we're ignoring all of the callings that are already there?" — Rev. Dan Marotta [18:21]
• On Mentorship:
  “May I please have an hour of your time to buy you lunch and ask you questions? ... I just feel honored.” — Rev. Dan Marotta [36:33]
• On Church Growth & Ego:
  "How can you have a strong drive and passion for something to grow and to do well, but also have an ever shrinking ego?...Self forgetfulness." — Rev. Dan Marotta [54:23]
• On Worry:
  “Just stop worrying. It’s going to work out. Receive the days as they come.” — Rev. Dan Marotta [58:14]

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Notable Moments & Timestamps

• Dan's realization his faith became “the most important thing” after the deaths of friends: [09:19]
• Explains the difference in respect for clergy across generations: [24:30]
• Practical tips on seeking and being a mentor: [35:34–36:33]
• The hard realities versus the “Little House on the Prairie” image of church planting: [43:01]
• Stories of launching multiple church plants: [50:21–51:19]
• Dan's discipline of minimizing ego triggers in the age of social media: [57:18]

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Themes & Takeaways

• True impact comes from small, consistent faithfulness—intention matters more than grandeur.
• Important to “grip the handle at the smooth end”—be wise, practice the ordinary well.
• Don't wait for a lightning-bolt calling; honor what you already know to do.
• Mentorship doesn’t always “find you”—seek it out with humility and specific requests.
• Leadership requires balancing ambition and humility, especially in a spotlight-driven age.
• The healthiest growth is often slow, local, and focused on serving others.

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Final Invitation

Dan’s story is a reminder that “going big” is less about striving for fame, and more about patient, humble faithfulness—and that’s where life-changing impact begins.

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Transcript

[Reverend Dan Morata]

I was thinking about the name of this podcast and Going Big, and I was thinking, you know.

So many people that have ended up changing the world, they weren't necessarily trying to go big, Right?

[Kevin Gentry]

And by the way, look at all those biblical figures you talked about. None of them have that life plan. They were tapped on the shoulder and said, hey, buddy, you need to step.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

In here like you interview Mother Teresa as a teenager and say, now, how are you going to, you know, how are you going to change the world? And she'd say, I'm not trying to change the world. I was trying to love my neighbor. Right? And so. So I think sometimes.

I think JR Tolkien was interviewed about this, about Hobbits have so much to teach us about what it means to be a small person in the world, to feel like there's big, powerful people doing big, powerful things, and I'm just a little person over here. And yet he wrote a really lovely story about how little people end up doing quite astonishingly big things. Right? And I think there's something about that in the heart, in the character of God, that God loves to use little people to do big things.

[Kevin Gentry]

Welcome to the Going Big Podcast. I'm your host, Kevin Gentry, and this is the place where we celebrate bold moves and big ideas. Each week, I sit down with inspiring leaders, entrepreneurs, and change makers who are making a significant impact in their careers and in their communities. Whether you're looking to level up your leadership, pursue your passion, or just get inspired to take your next big leap, this is where those stories come to life. Now, if you're listening on iTunes, YouTube, or anywhere else you tune into podcasts, be sure to hit that subscribe button so you'll never miss an episode. Now let's dive in to what it means to truly go big. Well, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of the Going Big Podcast, where we interview change makers and visionary leaders about how they have gone big in a different way. And I am so pleased to have with me today, in a studio here in Richmond, Virginia, the Reverend Dan Morata of Redeemer Anglican Church, which is in Richmond, Virginia. And as you're about to see, Dan is more than a spiritual leader. He has gone big in terms of really reaching out through his church's congregation, through himself, he into the community, and is building something that's special. We got a lot of Going Big questions to ask him. And, Dan, it's just such a pleasure to be here and thank you for making the space available here in Richmond.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Oh, absolutely. No, it's so fun. Welcome to town. We're glad you're here, Kevin. It's great to see you again. You and I overlapped in a previous season of Life. Both lived, you know, in the Northern Virginia area. And so I hadn't seen you for a minute.

[Kevin Gentry]

Yeah.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

But it's good to be in the same room as you again.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, it's good to be with you as well. And I'm going to note some other connections as well, but I was born in Richmond, so it's good to be back down here.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

There you go.

[Kevin Gentry]

As crazy as that.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

So I'm actually in your city.

[Kevin Gentry]

That's right. I guess in a way, it's been a long time since I've lived here, but it's a great, great place. And we used to always call it the center of the universe, but that's.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

That's.

[Kevin Gentry]

I guess everybody feels that way, but Richmond has its own special place. Well, Dan, since we're recording this at a time close to Advent, close to Christmas, I'd like to lead off by asking to you, for people listening, wherever they may be in their own faith journey, let's just say whether they may be believers or seekers or agnostics or what, of another faith, whatever, what to you is Advent, Christmas, and who is Jesus Christ?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

So those are big questions, not small questions.

[Kevin Gentry]

But this is the Going Big podcast.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

I'm feeling already the name of the podcast coming up. It's great. You know, if it's all right with you, I'm actually going to answer those in reverse order because I think it might help listeners. So. And you know, I'm a priest, and I'm going to answer the way. Maybe a priest would. Awesome.

[Kevin Gentry]

And by the way, in all fairness, I asked the same question last year, this time to your good friend Sam Ferguson of the False Church Anglican. So I'm just giving you a sense that you're in good company. All right.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Well. And if my answer doesn't make any sense, I'd say they can just go listen to Sam's answer.

[Kevin Gentry]

I know yours will make a lot of sense.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

So I would begin with, we believe that there is a God and that the God of the universe exists in what we would call in the Christian faith, a trinity, the triune union of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And that I begin there, because when we talk about who is Jesus, what we believe and are convinced of is that Jesus is the God, the Son incarnate in a human being. And therefore, some of our listeners might be familiar with the theological term the Incarnation. And that leads us to what is Christmas? That at Christmas, we look back and remember and celebrate the incarnation of the second person of the Holy Trinity into human flesh as a human being in the world. And Advent, therefore, is a season of the church liturgical calendar where we anticipate, really, the arrival of Christ in two ways. One is a backwards look where we cast our imaginations back to the past and we remember what was it like for the people of God to wait for the coming of the Messiah. And they did not know. You know, we do with 2020 hindsight, but they did not know that the coming Messiah would actually be God himself in the flesh. And then that's the backward look. Then there's the forwards look, where we think about the promise that Jesus made to his disciples and to us that one day he will return. And so you might say the church today lives between two Advents.

[Kevin Gentry]

Wow. Well done. All right. Well, I put. I just dropped that question on you going back. I think you did a great job with that. Well, it's the right.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

I love that. I love that we start there. You know, this time of year can be so. I mean, I won't put this on anybody else. I would just say for me. For me. Distracting.

[Kevin Gentry]

Yeah.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

You know, my mind is filled right now with, what am I gonna buy my teenage kids for Christmas. Right?

[Kevin Gentry]

Totally. And that's why I like Thanksgiving in a way better. Because it's less pressure.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Frying a turkey is way easier than shopping for your kids.

[Kevin Gentry]

Yeah.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Okay.

[Kevin Gentry]

That's a Richmond thing to say, frying a turkey, but okay. All right. Well, continuing this along, Dan, so I know a little bit about your journey, but not a whole lot. So I want to know who is Damarata? I had the great fortune of. Actually, I was born in Richmond, but I grew up in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains. I grew up in Culpepper. I went to the College of William and Mary. I know that's a journey that you took.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yes, sir.

[Kevin Gentry]

I think our paths probably diverged at that point, but who is Dambarada? And then, of course, I'm going to follow up with, how did you choose to go into ministry? But let's first establish a little bit more who you are.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Well, yeah, so you're so kind to ask. And I really only know how to. I think any of us only know how to answer that question in terms of story. So I would say a little bit of my own story might be similar to. You grew up in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains in Charlottesville, just a little bit south on 29 from Culpepper. That's right. And my parents are wonderful. We have a very close relationship today, and we always have. Both of my parents are believers, are Christians. I'm the oldest of four kids. I've got a younger brother and two younger sisters, and so grew up in Charlottesville, went away to college at William Mary, just like you. Go Tribe. Go tribe. Four great years there while I was in undergraduate studies. You know, sometimes, Kevin, we think about these landmarks or, you know, sort of defining chapters in our own story. And I would say my time in undergraduate college at William Mary, I. I went through a couple defining chapters. And some were sad and some were really joyful on the sadder side of things, you know, during my college year, especially during my freshman year, Kevin, I lost a lot of friends, meaning a number of my friends died. And these were peers of mine who were 18, 19 years old at William.

[Kevin Gentry]

And Mary or elsewhere or both.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Both, yeah. One was a friend from high school that, that died in Fallujah in Iraq. Another was a guy who lived in the dorm room right next to me on our freshman hall who tragically died. He was hit by a truck on campus biking to class. Yeah, I mean, really sad. And it absolutely wrecked me. And my life went into a tailspin. I almost flunked out of school. I mean, I just stopped going to classes, didn't show up to exams. You know, it just was really not in a good place. And through the kindness of parents and pastors and older, wiser Christian young men.

Really, I mean, faith became, for me, I would say it moved from, hey, this is something that is generally important to me to. This is the most important thing to me.

[Kevin Gentry]

So you did not go to. To college with the view that you were going to become a minister?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Oh, absolutely not. I went to college to be a marine biologist.

[Kevin Gentry]

Oh, wow. Okay. So I did not know this.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

I grew up reading, you know, like Jacques Cousteau, and I thought, well, I want to go live on a boat and sail around the world and discover new species of stingray. And, you know, hey, that still sounds pretty good some days. But no, I had no ministry, especially ordained ministry. I mean, Kevin, especially ordained ministry to the priesthood. Not on my radar at all. But my freshman year, I came face to face with mortality in a way that maybe not every 18 year old experiences. And it came through pain and it came through loss. But I really did come, really had to wrestle with the, you know, big questions in life. Life is short. We're all going to die. And that really shook me and rattled me, and it made me reconsider the place of faith in my life. So I would say that was one thing, and that's on the sadder side of things. On the more joyful side of things. I started volunteering with a Christian organization called Young Life, which perhaps you and maybe some others are familiar with. And it's an outreach ministry to middle school and high school students. And I jumped in to volunteering with Young Life. And there I found Kevin a really good fit. I loved it. And, you know, my friends at the time would say, in college, I majored in Young Life. It was just where I was at the high school. Every day I volunteered to coach the lacrosse team. And I found so much joy, so much purpose, so much satisfaction in really giving away my time and giving away my energy to being with these young high school guys, some of whom had just gotten out of juvenile detention for dealing drugs.

So I kind of poured myself into Young Life, and somewhere along the way, began to kind of scratch at that question, hey, maybe I'll keep doing this sort of thing after graduation.

Wasn't really sure if it would continue or not. And then during my senior year of college, I got a cold call, and it was from my home church back in Charlottesville, Virginia, asking if I would come on staff in the youth ministry. And, you know, I gotta admit, Kevin, I initially said no. I thought, I don't want to move back to my hometown. I don't think I want to move back to my home church. And as much as I've enjoyed all this Young Life stuff, ministry with teenagers, it's been a lot, and I'm a little tired. I think I'm ready for a change and do something else. So I said no. And in the months that followed, I graduated from college and was trying to figure out what was next. I was dating the woman who would later become my wife. And so I thought, you know, she still had another year of nursing school at James Madison University. And, Kevin, I just thought, well, I'll just move there and I'll get a job. And I had two jobs lined up. I was gonna work selling cars during the day, and I was gonna be a bartender at night, and I was gonna save up money to buy a ring and ask her to marry me. This was my game plan at 22.

[Kevin Gentry]

Okay. This is quite the journey. My goodness. Wow.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

So hang with me. The story's almost done. So this is my game plan at 22. This is what I'm gonna do. And through the kindness and intervention of some really wonderful people in my life, multiple different people who don't know each other at some point along the way, kind of pulled me aside and said, I really think you should reconsider this job in ministry. I think it might be a great fit for you. And so I had to go back. I listened to them and I went back to my girlfriend and said, you know, baby, I'm sorry, I'm not moving to town. I'm actually going to take this ministry job instead. And she was, you know, wonderful and super supportive. And so I took the job, you know, doing youth ministry in a church back in my hometown, thinking, I'll do this for one year. I'll give it a shot, do it for one year. And Kevin, that year turned into six years. And along the way.

My girlfriend graduated from college, we got married, we bought a house, got a dog, had a kid, and we went through a lot of these kind of growing up years together. And by the time I got to the end of those six years, we knew together that there really was a sense of calling here. This was what the Lord had in store for us. And so at that point, it was time to head off to seminary, get some formal theological training, and begin to take seriously the reality that we might spend the rest of our lives doing this.

[Kevin Gentry]

Wow. Well, Dan, I discovered earlier that you have your own podcast. And we actually started, I guess, around the same time. We've been about the same number of episodes. What I found in doing these interviews, a large degree unexpectedly, the going big podcast is what comes out is finding your calling, finding your gift.

What are you called to do, what is your contribution? And then the other is mentors, which we'll come back to in a moment. The importance of mentors. So this was not your calling when you went to college, you were going to study marine biology?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yes, sir.

[Kevin Gentry]

Do you think your calling was always there, your gift, and you found it in this way or what?

Looking back, obviously these lay circumstances affected you and there were conditions that were set up ahead of time. You already had an exposure to Christian faith, but do you think this was your calling?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yeah, that's a great question, and I really like the way you asked that. So I'm going to do a little bit of a priestly move here. I'm going to start with scripture and then work backwards to kind of us. So when I think about the different callings that we see take place in the story of the Bible, you know, you might think about the call of Moses in the burning bush. You might think about the call of Isaiah where he's sort of lifted up into the throne room of heaven. And, you know, the Lord is saying, you know, who will go? And he says, here I am, you know, send me. You might think about Jonah, who's called to go to Nineveh, and he doesn't want to go. You know, and then you have the whole big fish incident. You might think about the calling of someone like John the Baptist or the way Jesus called the disciples. You know, in each one of those situations, you have this really unique moment where someone receives a call from God, and it's unmistakably from God. Meaning the person being called is not confused about what's happening. They know exactly what's happening. God is speaking to them. The call is, you might say, authoritative.

You should say yes, and you should not say no. As Jonah found out, this is not a call you can decline.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

And the thing, Kevin, though, is that throughout the story of the Bible, there are then all these other people who, for all we know, don't have a call. They're just, as a friend of mine likes to say, Joe Israelite.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Just your average person. And they're not called to be a prophet. They don't have sort of a special calling. They have just sort of an ordinary, mundane, you know, everyday sort of thing. And it's important to remember that.

We are not Moses. I'm not John the Baptist. I'm not one of the disciples. I'm not Jonah. And so when we think about calling today, one of the things that I often will. And I used to do this a lot when I was in youth ministry, because high school seniors are thinking a lot about calling.

[Kevin Gentry]

Sure.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Maybe almost more than anybody else at their stage in life, other than, like, young adults who are thinking about getting married. Right. And they're asking questions like, which college should I go to? And if they're Christians, they're asking, which college does God want me to go to? And then they're asking questions about, well, what major should I choose and what career and what path? And all of these big questions about, you know, will God lead me somewhere? And one of the things that I used to talk to high schoolers about when I was doing youth ministry is, well, what has God already called you to? And we would look through the Bible and we would just think about what are the calls that are out there for everybody. And you might think about things like honor your father and mother, you know, serve the poor, you know, love your neighbor, you Know, there. There are calls that are. That are already there. And I used to tell teenagers, what business do we have asking God for a special calling if we're ignoring all of the callings that are already there?

[Kevin Gentry]

Right.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

What business do I have?

[Kevin Gentry]

Really? Fantastic. Dan, I'm so glad you're sharing this and your willingness to share it, because what I have heard so often, not just in this year, but it's kind of culminated in this. Very few people know early on what their calling is. Very few people said, I'm. I knew when I was five years old I was going to do this. Okay. Yeah. I think maybe Newt Gingrich knew he was going to be speaker of the House or something.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Like, he might have known.

[Kevin Gentry]

Few exceptions. Right. But it comes in different ways. But then I've also had a lot of people who've listened to this who say, but I still don't know what my calling is. I. Am I, you know, am I failing? Am I missing it? What have you. But what you're saying is, I'm understanding is the calling is in many, many different ways. And one way to be ready and be attuned to it is even to engage in prayer and to try to understand what's going on. What is this? Are you sending me a message? Am I not listening what's going on?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Absolutely. Oh, I'm right there with you.

So I'm going to totally butcher this quote. So any listeners who know how this quote actually goes, please forgive me. Or maybe you can send me how the wording actually works. But I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said something along the lines of.

Grip the handle at the smooth end. And what he meant was, if you're picking up a shovel or a tool or an instrument, there's kind of the normal way to hold it. And you shouldn't go looking for your weird, unique, special way of doing it. Grip the handle by the smooth end just means conventional wisdom. Do things the way that most wise people would agree they should be done. And sometimes I think, you know, Christians can. Sometimes when you're asking questions about calling, I think there's sort of two sides of the horse we can fall off on. And one side is to think that, you know, God's not really involved in my life. You know, I'm just sort of putting my head down and putting one foot in front of the other, doing my thing, go to school, go to college, get the job. You know, just sort of American dream track. And. And what that person needs to hear is, hey, God wants to be involved in your life. And. And maybe there is a unique call, and you need to start listening and paying attention and praying and asking, right? Be open towards God. But then there's another kind of person, and the other kind of person actually really craves the special. They really want a special, unique Jonah or Moses call.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

And to that person, what you need is Jefferson's. Hey, just grip the handle by the smooth end.

[Kevin Gentry]

Got it.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

You know, Jesus has already told you a lot about how to live. Why don't you just start there?

[Kevin Gentry]

Awesome. All right.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Does that make sense?

[Kevin Gentry]

Oh, absolutely. Now I understand why you're a very effective pastor as well. All right. Very, very good. Okay. So when did you decide to go all in for ministry? I mean, was there a point when.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

You say all in, do you mean.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, you went from, you know, you were a youth pastor, you were sort of uncertain, but then you made a major. You've made a major commitment of your life, and we're going to talk about the church that you helped start, you birthed and then others now that you're doing. But you made, presumably at some point, like, a big commitment, like, okay, I'm all in. Was there a moment or was it gradual?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

So it was gradual, but as with all things. And again, I'm going to butcher the quote, it happened slowly and all at once.

[Kevin Gentry]

Got it. I know, I know.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

There's. There was sort of a slow burn where in my years of youth ministry, which is my very first time being on staff at a church, which, you know, can be disillusioning for some people, where you. You sort of realize, oh, churches and ministries are led by humans, and humans are flawed and broken and disappointing, and nothing's ever as glorious as it appears from a distance.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

But there's also some goodness and some real heart in the work. And so somewhere in those six years, my wife Rachel and I decided, yes.

This is it. We're not going to go do something else. We are going to. We're plowing this field.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, Daniel, my impression is it's not easy to be a pastor these days. I think it's probably never been easy to be a pastor, but I think given so much in the world today, everything from the influences of social media and dealing with even some of the aspects of artificial intelligence, but just where society is and the sort of division that exists and the nature of our economy and so many ways, there are a lot of pressures on a pastor. And so I'm going to kind of jump in and if you don't mind, just help Our audience understand what is it like? I know that you're not going to make this about you, but you have a sense for talking to others and I'm sure there are others who can't do it. They start and they just can't do it anymore.

What's it like?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yeah, well, it's very kind of you to ask. And you know, I'm in the general scheme of things, I'm still kind of a young pastor. So part of me wants to say, ask me in 20 years. But I do have 18, 19 years of full time ministry under my belt at this point. And so I would say along the way I've learned.

The challenges of shepherding and counseling and teaching. And then in church world, just administrating a large organization, they're all still there. But in our present cultural moment, some of the challenges that have been added to that have been things like pastors are just categorically less respected than maybe they used to be a generation or two ago.

If you see someone in a clergy collar to an older generation, that visually signals respect totally. And safety.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

If you ask a younger person, anybody under the age of 40, when you see someone, oh, I would say child molester is the first thing that comes to mind. Right. And so there's just a, there's a default. Right. And there, and there are legitimate reasons why some people would react that way. But that inhabiting our cultural imagination for what ministry is. You know, every movie that depicts a pastor or a priest, they're either the villain or they're an idiot. You know, and so, I mean, even I'm navigating that with my own kids right now as we watch movies and TV shows together and they're like, why is the pastor always stupid or evil?

[Kevin Gentry]

And it's like, yeah, that's.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

We gotta contend with that. So, okay, so you just have less cultural credibility than you used to.

And to be clear, I don't think it's actually right for me or anybody else to complain about that per se, because when I look back at church history, I mean, there are harder times than our own time. And so, yes, we've got some challenges. Maybe it is harder now than it was in, say the 70s or the 40s or 50s or whatever, but it's still not nearly as hard as it was in the first 300 years of church.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

And so I'm.

[Kevin Gentry]

But let me ask you, not much to complain about. If I could. You don't know. I'm going to ask. So I'm just going to do it.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yeah. Far away.

[Kevin Gentry]

You know, it's when, for example, an accusation is made about a clergy member, you know, we want to presume innocence and give that person the benefit of a fair trial. But then, you know, but the circumstances as such, you have, you know, what do you. What do you do?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yeah.

[Kevin Gentry]

That's a really crazy space, I think, especially for clergy.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yeah.

[Kevin Gentry]

What do you.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

It is crazy. It is a crazy space. No, you're not wrong at all. Yes. And that. And that is so very much the cultural moment that we're inhabiting right now. Leaders are falling. And, you know, I think there are healthy and maybe then less healthy ways to think about what that means. So on the one hand, you might say we're living in an era of the celebrity and we have Christian celebrities. And I think we have to ask ourselves, hey, do we need saints or do we need celebrities? And so often we look at the saints of history.

They weren't celebrities in their own time.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right, Right.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

They were actually very small, obscure people in their own time.

[Kevin Gentry]

But we find out later, we find.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Out later the virtue and the kind and the service and the humility, and so we honor their legacy. Right. However, in our own moment, we have the Christian celebrity, and they might be famous for their talent, but maybe not for their virtue. Right. And so when there's a fall, it can get pretty ugly. You know, another thing to think about, and I was talking to somebody in our church just about this the other day, about how when a math teacher acts out and does something inappropriate, embezzles money from the local elementary school, harasses a kid or another teacher or something, everyone in society agrees that's bad. That person should be removed from that position. But we all continue to believe we still need math teachers.

[Kevin Gentry]

Correct? Right. Yes.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

We should still have schools.

[Kevin Gentry]

No, this is.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Still have.

[Kevin Gentry]

Great analogy. I couldn't agree with you more.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

And the problem is in the church, when a pastor or a priest falls, it calls into question the whole thing.

[Kevin Gentry]

Yes.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Should the Christian faith even exist if this is what the leaders are like? Right. And so there's just an extra gravity and weight.

[Kevin Gentry]

No, I think this is a very, very difficult thing that we all contend with, whether those who are in the faith or outside. All right, we're going to change gears. All. I'm going to come back up to something you brought about in terms. I love liberty culture.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

No, no, no, no. This is the moment we're in.

[Kevin Gentry]

It is. And. And it. And it ultimately is tied to going big because people go big in different ways. And as you say, there are people who act with extraordinary virtue and integrity and are not rewarded in the space, but we look back in time and see them as role models and as it is, people that we should pattern our lives after. Which now leads me to the question about mentors. All right, were there mentors in your life that were important? I mean, you talked about this period, your freshman year in particular in college, but have there been mentors that have been key in helping you develop?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Absolutely. And I feel so fortunate. And I would say, Kevin, like.

One of the ways in which I feel most, I would say rich in my own story is in how kind some older people have been to me along the way. And so just, I would just hit a couple along the way. I would say as a, as a, as a bratty seventh grader, God put JR Briggs in my life. And JR Briggs was the college Internet at our church. And he reached out to me and he dragged me to a summer middle school Bible study on the book of Philippians. And I did not want to go, but he got my parents permission to come pick me up anyway and we went and he. I just have always looked up to him and I still do. And some people, he's just well known enough that some people might actually recognize his name because he's continued to write books and to speak. Another person would be Carver Bolton, who was my young life leader in high school. And he volunteered to be the assistant coach for our soccer team. And he, you know, Kevin, I don't think he was at the high school every single day, but it sure felt like it. He was there all the time. And when I think about what it means to pursue people, I think about J.R. briggs and Carver Bolton as like a. I go to you, I don't wait for you to come to me when I get to college. I think about a pastor I had named Pete Bauer who was willing to. It was a little church of like 50 or 60 people that met in Charles City county way outside of town. And he would drive all the way into campus just to do a one on one Bible study with me. And I think about a guy who, like, he, man, he had four kids, he had all kinds of other stuff he could be doing. I mean, it's like borderline irresponsible how much time he was wasting with me. And yet, just when I think about what it means to be generous with your time, I think about Pete Bauer later on when we get to Denver, the pastor of the church that we worshiped at in Denver his name was Brian Brown. And, man, he was so. He was so kind to me and so good to me and just gave me opportunities. Like, he just gave me a shot. And when I think about what it means to, like, actually give a young person a shot, maybe before they're ready, I think of Brian Brown. And then we moved to Northern Virginia, to the Falls Church area, and I had the wonderful privilege of apprenticing under John Yates, somebody we both know and love. And John is, in many ways, for me, a spiritual father. And he not only was so kind to me, but as a role model, I got to watch him lead with grace, with patience, with wisdom. And I was always astonished at how not stressed out he was.

[Kevin Gentry]

Yes.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Given.

[Kevin Gentry]

I don't know how he does that.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Given all that was going on at the time. And when I think about what it means to be calm in the midst of chaos, I think about Yates.

There's other people that are on my list, but I'm gonna stop there.

[Kevin Gentry]

Okay. This is awesome. Thank you. And as you know, I recorded a wonderful episode with John Yates earlier this year. He's just extraordina. He has such a gift. Well, we're going to talk about one of his gifts as it relates to you, but let's just first, on this idea of mentorship for those listening based on your experience, and those are great illustrations. How would you counsel? First, we think about looking for mentors or even acting when we are being mentored. Oh, yeah.

Because many of those illustrations, you didn't seek those mentors. But. But tell us from your perspective on that.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

So, yeah, I would say two of them I did not seek, and two of them I did. So.

Often I talk with younger people about this, especially young men, and what I often hear is, hey, I wish there's an older guy who would just love me and mentor me and pursue me and take me under their wing and teach me, and we'd spend all this time together, they'd be like a second dad to me. And they don't really say it all quite that way. But what they're. But they're sitting there by themselves, not doing anything, pining away that somebody would notice them. And, you know, hey, my heart goes out for anybody that feels unnoticed. But that's. If you want to be mentored, that opportunity probably is available to you, but it's going to require some initiative and some action.

You know, when I was a kid and I had guys like JR Briggs and Carver Bolton pursuing me, I still had to respond.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

You know, I still had to say yes, get in the car, say yes, go to the thing, you know, do some listening. There's a participatory element to that. You got to respond. And then when I think about, you know, my time in Denver with Brian Brown and my time in Falls Church with John Yates, those were more men that I sought out and I asked, you know, I sort of wanted them to be that for me. And that required taking the risk of asking.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right. No, that's my next question. Because we, I'd say, whether it's fear of rejection or just not knowing how to ask, or we think these people are just too busy, or.

I would say a lot of people who seek mentors don't know how to ask.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yeah.

[Kevin Gentry]

And don't quite get to that spot. And so you were fortunate in the first two examples where somebody saw you and, and looked out for you. That doesn't happen to all of us.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Sure.

[Kevin Gentry]

And then with respect to seeking a mentor, we don't always have the courage to do that. So. Any special advice? Yeah.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Oh, absolutely. So asking is scary. They might say no. My advice, do you use the term.

[Kevin Gentry]

Mentor or do you just ask for some advice?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

This is going to sound a little weird. I would ask for a first date.

And what I mean is, don't go to somebody you don't know and propose a long term relationship.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right, right.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

That doesn't. What I mean is, ask for is.

[Kevin Gentry]

Like, that would be kind of creepy.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

That'd be a little weird. Yeah. You go to a stranger and say, will you mentor me? It's like, no, that's not, that's no good. I would say, hey, go get a cup of coffee, go get a beer together, go get lunch together and just ask them questions. That's it. Just bring and prepare. Bring a list. Bring your little journal. Write down a lot of questions that you have about life or career or work or faith or whatever it is that you feel like is your area of need. And you can tell them, I want to buy you lunch and I want to ask you some really good, some really important questions. May I please have an hour of your time to buy you lunch and ask you questions? Kevin, I don't know anybody who would say no to that.

[Kevin Gentry]

I'm with you. And I would have said a couple years ago there'd be plenty of people who say no. But it's been the prevailing view among very high level people that they all would say yes. And so we should be encouraged to do better. Yeah.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

I mean, if a guy, if a young guy comes to me and says, may I please have one hour of your time? So it's time bad. It's limited. I need to know that there's an end date for an end time.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right. I'm not going to take it forever.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Your time, buy you lunch, ask you questions. I mean, for me, I just feel honored.

[Kevin Gentry]

No, that's great advice. Okay, now let's flip it.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yep.

[Kevin Gentry]

What should mentors do? That is those who mentored you, looking back and now I'm. I'm sure you are mentoring different people in different ways. How does a mentor do it best? So what you're.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Well, you. I'll use me. What I'm looking for is a teachable spirit. I'm looking for hunger. Who really wants to learn? There's nothing more frustrating than trying to teach somebody who's not interested in learning.

[Kevin Gentry]

No, that's.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Who's not hungry.

[Kevin Gentry]

That's an awesome point because you. And you don't waste a lot of time. I mean, you have somebody that's motivated. You know, you're kind of getting to business right away, so to speak.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Absolutely. So, yeah, so I'm looking for folks that are hungry, that are eager to learn, that have that kind of teachable humility.

[Kevin Gentry]

And do you suggest the first date? That is to say, hey, would you like to grab coffee sometime?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Or.

[Kevin Gentry]

What do you do? Yeah. By the way, there is an element of social awkwardness to this as well. We have to be kind of conscious of it.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

And, yeah, you know, I would say I don't think I've ever just proposed. Hey, how about I be your mentor?

[Kevin Gentry]

Right.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Because that feels a little presumptuous. What I'm more likely to do is invite them to do something with me. So there might be something I'm working on. And I might say, you know, to a younger guy, hey, I'm working on this, and I could use some help. Would you like to come do this with me? Here's what it means. We're gonna go do this together, and I'm gonna sort of teach you how we do this, and I might use that as a trial run, and let's see how it goes. If it goes well, well, then maybe we'll work together again. And now I found when it comes to, you know, for women, it might work differently, but for men, often elbow to elbow is a really good way to learn together. So I often. I don't often start face to face. I kind of start side to side.

[Kevin Gentry]

Yeah, I had an Uber driver recently who's full of wisdom and suggested you know, going on a walk is a lot better. You don't have to make eye contact when you have some of those tougher initial conversations.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

That's right.

[Kevin Gentry]

It was really interesting, but we talked about John Yates, but, you know, we know he has a gift for identifying and raising up talent, and I keep asking him for advice about it, and he's given some, but he just has a. That's one of his gifts. But it's such an important contribution and the big picture as well. Okay, I want to switch gears again. Now. We learned about your going into ministry. In my judgment, Dan, what caught my attention with respect to reaching out to you about going on the Going Big podcast was what you did about starting a church in Richmond and then building this with the help of others, obviously, and you've got a great team, and, and then even now going further. And so before we even go into what you're doing in the community and other things like that, could you just help the audience understand what is, what does it mean in terms of vision to say, I'm going to start a church in Richmond, Virginia? You didn't grow up here. You didn't go to college here. How did this come about? And how does it happen?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

And planting a church can just kind of be a crazy thing to do. I mean, so, yeah, there's, there's. I, I won't bore everybody with the whole long, tedious story, but I will maybe hit just a couple high water that led us there. So.

[Kevin Gentry]

And by the way, it is seemingly counterintuitive because people think, oh, church membership is declining, people are breaking away church. Why would you start a new church? Aren't there enough churches out there already? Yeah, so keep going.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

So, yeah, this is a really crass analogy. So this will bother somebody. And please forgive me, this is not Kevin's fault that I'm saying this.

[Kevin Gentry]

You're forgiven.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Is it easier to start a healthy new business or to repair the broken, dysfunctional culture of an existing business?

[Kevin Gentry]

Right.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

It's easier to start a new one. So. And by the way, I am not comparing the church to a business at all. It's like, I don't believe that. That's not my philosophy of ministry or theology at all.

[Kevin Gentry]

No, but to be fair, I mean, you even noted earlier, I think most people see a minister as a preacher because that's the biggest point of exposure, that they may have got it. They may have a little bit of seeing them as a pastor, and you can explain the difference, but they don't know about your having to hire and fire and build a team and make sure you've got property and the neighbors are okay with you. And, you know, there's a replacement for the youth director that just left.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

That's right.

[Kevin Gentry]

There's a leak in the, you know, back of the church or whatever it may be. On and on and on.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yeah, so it is. It is complex, for sure.

[Kevin Gentry]

And.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Developing, starting and then kind of sustaining and nurturing. A healthy ethos and a healthy culture amongst a community is a remarkably complex and difficult thing. It's even harder if what you're inheriting is already dysfunctional. It's easier to start from scratch than. I mean, both are hard, but one is harder. So I would say church revitalization is the hardest kind of work. I know. And I would say church planting is the second hardest.

[Kevin Gentry]

Wow.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

So.

When I think about church planting.

[Kevin Gentry]

What does it mean? What does church planting, meaning church planting, mean?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

So when we talk about church planting, what we mean is.

Conceiving of.

Individualizing and then articulating and persuading and gathering and forming a congregation where before there.

[Kevin Gentry]

Was no congregation, which is a big deal. Very complicated. This is not like, you know, Little House on the Prairie. They go out one day and erect out of wood timbers a new church and ring the bell at the end.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

And then we mean building a structure.

[Kevin Gentry]

Exactly.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Gathering of people. Yes, exactly. And so, I mean, it's exciting, it's invigorating. It's also, you know, hard and painful. It's all of the things you might imagine. It's also, though, Kevin, how the church began. So, again, if we go all the way back to scripture, in the New Testament, the Lord Jesus commissions his disciples to go out into the world and to make more disciples. And the Apostle Paul, who is not one of the original apostles, but is the apostle who's late to the game, converts from Judaism to the Christian faith. Well, we would say he actually retains his Judaism, but he becomes a Christian as well, with Jesus as the Messiah. And he then begins to go all around the Mediterranean, planting new congregations, forming new churches. And really, when we think about church planting, what we're talking about is simply missionary work. And so I would say church planter is really just a subset of missionary.

[Kevin Gentry]

Amazing.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

I'm just. I just didn't. I just didn't go overseas.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right. I just went down the road, you know, years ago. I was in Ukraine, well before there was so much strife in Kyiv. And there's a statue to the apostle. Wait, who is it? Which one? Who went there now? Andrew Andrew. There's a statue to Andrew.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Wow.

[Kevin Gentry]

Who went. And I guess he ultimately went all the way to India.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Amazing.

[Kevin Gentry]

And, you know, these things. And then churches grew as a result. It's extraordinary. But it's different today. Where are we now? And why did you form a congregation and start a church here?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Why. Why Richmond?

[Kevin Gentry]

Yeah.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yeah. So.

[Kevin Gentry]

And why where we are in Richmond?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Sure.

[Kevin Gentry]

For 99.9% of those listening, they don't even know where we're talking about. Maybe Richmond, Virginia, is the capital of Virginia. But. But why here?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yeah.

[Kevin Gentry]

And why precisely here?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

We're in Kerrytown right now, just south of the museum district and just west of the fan district. And so we're. We're not quite center city, but we're close. And why Richmond? So, a number of reasons. One is, I had siblings that had moved here and dear friends from college that had moved here. So there were people here that we already knew and loved and who, you know, loved us. And some of them were encouraging and inviting us to move here. And a couple of them were even saying things like, you guys should come plant a church here. Metro Richmond, at that time, and it continues, is growing rapidly, and population growth has far outpaced church growth. So if you think about, in terms of percentages, Richmond is becoming a less church, a less church city, year over year, as population grows and as church growth does not keep up. So church growth decline, the churches are in decline, and population is growing. And so with the direction those two arrows are going, we had a relational invitation from friends and family, and we also perceived a real need, a missional need. Now, you combine that with. Once I got connected to John Yates and the Falls Church and the Diocese of the Mid Atlantic, which is the one I'm a part of now, I learned that this particular network was really hoping to plant a church in Richmond, but that they hadn't found anybody to do it yet. And in my very first conversation with my first bishop, who's now retired, Bishop John Guernsey, I was still living in Denver, exploring all of this sort of jiggling the doorknob, so to speak, seeing if this was the right path, seeing if this was a calling, and got on the phone with Bishop Guernsey, and, you know, I told him that, you know, I was thinking about moving back to Virginia. I was thinking about the Anglican tradition. I was thinking about church planting, and. But I wasn't really sure. And so I figured I probably ought to talk to a bishop, since I had never spoken to one before.

And he very calmly asked me on the Phone. Well, Dan, if let's just hypothetically say you were to move back to Virginia and you were to plant a church, and let's just say for the sake of argument that it's an Anglican church, where would you like to go? And I said, well, you know, through the kindness of some friends, our invitation is to go to Richmond. And he just started laughing and he said, dan, I've got 100 people in our diocese that pray every year for someone to come plant a new Anglican church in Richmond.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, give us the sort of three minute, two to three minute rundown of what has happened since then. And then if you would sort of put the icing on the cake with the new church plant.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Sure thing. So, yeah, very briefly, me and my wife Rachel and our four kids, we only had three at the time, but now we have four. We moved to Richmond in the summer of 2016. We did about the only thing I know how to do to gather people, which is to throw a barbecue in our backyard.

[Kevin Gentry]

And we had good food is always a good description.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

It helps. It helps. And you know, Kevin, I had driven down to Richmond almost every Friday for two years during my time on staff at the Falls Church to meet with people down here. And there were days where I would sit in a coffee shop for 12 hours and have 12 one hour meetings with various people that I had gotten connected with. And I would just have the same conversation over and over again about this new church plant that we were really excited about and would they consider being a part of it. And so by the time we moved in the summer of 2016 and we invited all those people I had met with, we had 90 people come to our backyard for a barbecue. And then that fall, we had a couple kind of introductory orientation meetings to talk about, you know, hey, what are we going to believe? What do we practice? What is really the ethos and culture of this new congregation that's forming? And then first Sunday of Advent to bring us all the way back to the beginning of this conversation.

[Kevin Gentry]

You're very good about bringing connecting dots. So very good.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

We had Redeemer had her first public worship service, where that was November 27, 2016, in this little white chapel on the corner of park and park and Meadow in the Fan district, probably a mile and a half from where you and I are sitting right now.

[Kevin Gentry]

Gotcha. And you essentially rented out an existing space.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yeah, we just rented some space.

[Kevin Gentry]

Got it.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yeah.

[Kevin Gentry]

And then at some point, you now have your own space.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Not yet. So we, in a couple weeks, that answer Will change. So right now our church is under contract on a building.

[Kevin Gentry]

But you're where you. But you worship at a place.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Now we worship in a rented space we actually rent from a synagogue here in town. And you know, they worship on Saturdays. They have Shabbat services on Saturdays and it was empty on Sundays. So it's a really lovely arrangement and we're all very friendly with each other.

[Kevin Gentry]

And then there was now then a vision for starting another church on the south side of the James River. Is that right?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

So we have sent out, I would say, two and a half church plants so far.

[Kevin Gentry]

Wow.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

One, the first one I would say is half because we teamed up with another church that offered funding. So another place offered the funding. We offered the kind of on the ground local support and we kind of helped a new church plant launch in May of 2019. And then in 2022 we sent out a. Another church plant that was sort of the first one that was really formally just coming from our church. And that church is called All Souls Anglican Church. And they meet just south of the river in the Manchester neighborhood. And then in 2024, we sent out a third church plant, Resurrection Anglican Church, and they meet down in Midlothian a little bit further away.

[Kevin Gentry]

Amazing.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

And now we've got a fourth church planter who just started with us two months ago.

[Kevin Gentry]

So this is the guy that started his freshman year at William Mary, went through a rough time going to do marine biology and is now through to some degree the mentorship of John Yates and others. This idea of just continuing to expand. So that's, this is, this is a great example of going big. I have another sort of current church related question and then I want to begin to bring this to a close.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yes, sir.

[Kevin Gentry]

So we're soon upon Christmas. Church attendance grows during that time. Christmas Eve services, whatever, you know, it's. What is it? Lilies and poinsettias or poinsettias and lilies, the people who come just for that service. And again on Easter.

You want obviously more people to come so that you can reach them. And you now in a modern society have all these different means of communication to reach out to people. And you can utilize social media and things like that to some degree. I don't know whether the right word is ambition, but presumably you have an ambition to grow and reach more people.

How do you balance that? Because I think there's always the risk that it begins to touch on the celebrity nature of things that you talked about because celebrity draws more. How do you balance the desire to reach these growing numbers of people, which could be described as ambition, with the very motivation for why you're doing it and the humility and the faithfulness. How does. Does that make sense?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Oh, absolutely. So, yeah, I don't want to go on for another hour because I know we're almost done. But what you're.

[Kevin Gentry]

You know, Mark Twain said. Mark Mark Twain said that few sinners are saved after the first 20 minutes of the sermon. So. So I am with a pre. But you go at it. You go ahead, answer the question.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Mark Twain also said in the beginning of a letter to one of his friends, he said, dear friend, I didn't have time to write you a short letter, so I wrote you a long one.

[Kevin Gentry]

Yes, yes. I don't know if you've read the Ron Chernow biography of Mark Twain, which came out recently. He's really amazing. He was a fascinating guy. But we won't go there. I'm diverting everywhere.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

So sometimes scripted answers are longer than the scripted ones. So, you know, I would say it's an ongoing. I think it's a temptation for everybody. And I would say that's just. It's just a cross field.

[Kevin Gentry]

We're doing a podcast right now.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Yeah. Here you go.

So when I think about. I would almost frame your question under, like, what does it mean to have sanctified ambition? How can you really have a strong drive and passion for something to grow and to flourish and to do well, but also have an ever shrinking ego?

Or maybe as St. Tim Keller would say it.

Self forgetfulness. Right. Like just thinking about yourself less. Not thinking less of yourself, but just.

[Kevin Gentry]

Which, by the way, this touches on.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

The area we're so preoccupied.

[Kevin Gentry]

Yeah. But this touches on the very area we talked about earlier of where people get into trouble.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Absolutely.

[Kevin Gentry]

Because generally they're getting into trouble because they're thinking about themselves rather than about others. Yeah.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

So I think there are safeguards.

You can sort of have in place, and no one of them is enough, and even all of them might not be enough, but I think it's something you have to lean into constantly. And those might be things. Like, for me, I have a bishop who's in charge of me, so I'm not a lone ranger. I'm not like a do my own thing guy. I'm part of a system. I live a life under the authority of somebody else. Somebody besides my wife gets to tell me no.

[Kevin Gentry]

Yeah. That's funny. By the way, I just did a interview with Tim Bush, who's a very influential Catholic layperson. But he made this from a Catholic standpoint, this very same point that you have to have in his judgment, this element of authority.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Absolutely. And it's not a guarantee of virtue. Right. But it's, but it, but it is a safeguard. It provides a check. You know, another one might be how much are you willing to give away to other leaders in your community or organization, whether it's a church or something else? Right. Is it always you up front or are there other people whose voices are heard? Right.

Another thing, and this is maybe a little bit more internal, is.

[Kevin Gentry]

This is.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Going to sound a little bit masochistic and I don't mean it this way, but like for every new person that joins the church, I'm trying to ask myself the question, is this someone I'm willing to suffer for? And the more people that join, you know what that means?

[Kevin Gentry]

Yeah, the suffering.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

More suffering. Right, right. So reframing it as. Instead of like the growth of this thing means the growth of my ego. Look how big and important we are. We're doing cool things. Instead it's. Well, this growth is actually going to lead to more hardship and maybe more pain and more suffering, but hopefully from a place of love for their flourishing and their growth. Because that's what this is about in the first place. Right. So there's more I could say. I mean, I have other little silly things I do like, you know. Yeah. I do a weekly podcast and I've written some books and I'm working on another one and those kind of things. But when it comes to things like social media, I actually have my assistant do all the social media stuff and I might about once a week I will download Instagram, log in and just sort of check to see if I've missed any messages and then I log out and I delete the app from my phone.

[Kevin Gentry]

Yeah. You know, I've few others, especially clergy.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

I don't want to look at.

[Kevin Gentry]

Yeah, no, no. But it's a very interesting space. Well, thank you for. You've been very generous in sharing a lot of insights and I didn't give you much preparation for these things I was going to drop on you. So as we draw to a close, I'd like to ask two questions of the guests. The first being thinking back on a younger version of yourself. And this is nice because you've already told us a lot about, but let's say go back to like an 18 year old, 20 year old version of yourself given all that you've shared with us. But what would you tell that Younger version of yourself today, now, knowing what you know to have done any differently because it's a good way for all of us to kind of learn new life lessons. Oh, gosh.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

I'd just tell myself to stop being such an idiot. You know, in seriousness, I'd probably just tell myself to stop worrying, you know.

And I know that if, you know.

[Kevin Gentry]

Worried doesn't mean 30 year old version.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Of me now could talk to me now. He'd probably say the same thing, like, just stop worrying. Like it's going to work out, like you're going to be okay. Like, yes, bad things will happen and then other good things will happen and none of it will be what you think it's going to be. Just like, receive it. Just receive the days as they come.

[Kevin Gentry]

Any more advice to those of us who worry all the time?

I mean, and you can start worrying about worrying.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm feeling anxious about how much time I spend being anxious. You know, someone much older and wiser than me shared this with me years ago and the mental image has stuck with me.

I'm someone who just by personality and disposition in my own broken dysfunction, tends to think that I have to make things happen and that things happen through sweat and grit and that you drive forward into the future.

[Kevin Gentry]

Yes.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

And the thing is.

That'S. That is an over inflated sense of my own importance.

[Kevin Gentry]

Exactly. I mean, I'm not saying that about you, but I totally agree with that view.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

You would be right.

And, and I'm just slowly learning as God is very patient with me, that the future is something to be received as it comes. I'm in the river. The river is floating in time downstream. I don't have to make it happen. I can participate. I have my own little work to do. But it's just that it's little, like it's okay to be. I mean, I'm not trying to. I was thinking about the name of this podcast and Going Big. And I was thinking, you know.

So many people that have ended up changing the world, they weren't necessarily trying to go big.

[Kevin Gentry]

Right. And by the way, look at all those biblical figures you talked about. None of them have that life plan. They were tapped on the shoulder and said, hey buddy, you need to step.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

In here like you interview Mother Teresa as a teenager and say, now how are you going to, you know, how are you going to change the world? And she'd say, I'm not trying to change the world. I'm just trying to love my neighbor. Right. And so I think sometimes you know, I think JR Tolkien was interviewed about this, about, like, hobbits have so much to teach us about what it means to be a small person in the world, to feel like there's. There's big, powerful people doing big, powerful things, and I'm just a little person over here. And yet he wrote a really lovely story about how little people end up doing quite astonishingly big things. Right. And I think there's something about that in the character of God that God loves to use little people to do big things.

[Kevin Gentry]

Well, see, you were so appropriate for the Going Big podcast. All right, bring this to a close for. Again, kind of similar to the opening question for anyone listening around the world, wherever they may be, in their own personal faith journey, and wherever it. Wherever it may be, in whatever way, from your perspective, from your experience, from your learning, from everything, what would you suggest to those listening about how they can think about going big in their lives by finding their contribution, their gift, living that life of meaning and purpose? Reverend Dan.

Send us out into the world right now.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

Oh, I would just. I mean, this is going to be underwhelming, but I would say prayerfully, pay attention to what's in front of you.

You don't need to be dreaming about what's going to be in 20 years or 10 years or even maybe necessarily next year. Be faithful in the moment with whatever you've been given. And. And who knows, maybe later you'll be given more to be faithful in. But it does. If you skip the little in favor of just doing big things, you probably won't even be ready for the big things.

[Kevin Gentry]

Yeah, right?

[Reverend Dan Morata]

You got to lead little things before you lead big things.

[Kevin Gentry]

Wow. Good advice. And don't be anxious about the future either, which ties into all of that. Well, Reverend Damarata, folks, I hope you'll check out Redeemer Anglican Church in Richmond, Virginia. It's been a real pleasure being with you today. I'm so glad we could do this, Kevin.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

It's great to reconnect. Thank you so.

[Kevin Gentry]

Thank you. Peace be with you.

[Reverend Dan Morata]

You too.

[Kevin Gentry]

Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to the Going Big podcast. I hope today's conversation left you feeling energized and ready to tackle your biggest goals. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on iTunes, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps spread the word and it gets these inspiring stories out to more people. You can also find more content, resources, and updates at our website, goingbigpodcast.com Remember, the only limits are the ones you don't challenge the limits that you impose on yourself. Keep pushing, keep growing, and above all, keep going big. See you next time on the Going Big podcast.